Ep. 54: Ted Bundy - The Mask (Part 1) | How He Gained Trust Before the Killings

In January of 1974, something began. Quietly.

Before the headlines.
 Before the investigations.
 Before anyone understood what they were looking at…

There was trust.

In Part One of our three-part series, we examine the early life and psychological foundation of Ted Bundy—how he was perceived, how he moved through the world, and how he gained access to the people who would become his victims.

From his childhood and shifting identity…
 to the first known attack…
 to the early disappearances that didn’t yet seem connected…

This is the story of the mask.

The version of him people believed.

And the warning signs that were missed.

🎧 This episode includes real audio of Ted Bundy.

⚠️ Content Warning:
This episode contains discussion of violence, assault, and murder. Listener discretion is advised.

🖤 EPISODE BREAKDOWN

•  Early life of Theodore Robert Cowell 
•  Identity changes and family dynamics 
•  Psychological development and behavioral patterns 
•  First known attack (Karen Sparks) 
•  Early disappearances in Washington 
•  The emergence of a pattern 
•  How Bundy gained trust 

🔪 PART II COMING MONDAY

In Part Two, we focus on the victims.

The lives that were taken…
 and the moments where this could have been stopped.

👁️ FOLLOW + SUPPORT

If you’re enjoying Veil of Echoes, following the show and leaving a review helps us grow and continue telling these stories.

📚 SOURCES

(You can adjust/add based on what you used, but here’s a solid base)

•  Ann Rule — The Stranger Beside Me
•  Court records and investigative reports 
•  FBI archives and case summaries 
•  Interviews and recorded statements from Ted Bundy 
•  University of Washington archives (1974 case reporting) 

✨ Step through the veil with us…

🔮 Follow on TikTok & Instagram: @VeilOfEchoesPodcast

👻 Share your stories: VeilOfEchoesPodcast@gmail.com

🕯️ New episodes drop every Monday (True Crime) & Friday (Paranormal) — where true crime meets the supernatural.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Beneath the ordinary world lies a veil, and behind it the voices of the lost still whisper.

SPEAKER_03 0:09

We are your guides into the shadows, where true crime meets the paranormal.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

From chilling crimes to haunted histories, we uncover the stories that refuse to rest. This is Veil of Echoes.

SPEAKER_02 0:45

A college campus, mostly empty now. Just a few lights still. You're walking alone, not nervous, not rushing, just trying to get back. And then you realize you're not the only one out here. You hear someone behind you. Not close enough to be.

SPEAKER_03 2:21

Each week, we step into cases that unsettle us. Crimes that don't always make sense. And people who aren't always what they seem.

SPEAKER_01 2:31

We look at the timeline, the evidence, and the psychology behind what happened, and how something like this goes unnoticed.

SPEAKER_02 2:42

We're your host, I'm Lindsay.

SPEAKER_01 2:44

I'm Zach.

SPEAKER_02 2:45

And I'm Bria. This episode includes discussions of abduction, animal abuse, violence, and murder. Some details may be disturbing. Listener discretion is advised.

SPEAKER_03 2:59

If you choose to follow the show or leave a review, it helps these stories reach further.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

And it helps us continue telling them.

SPEAKER_02 3:09

And we really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 3:13

To understand what happened in this case, we have to go back to the early 1970s, Washington State, a place where life felt normal, predictable, safe.

SPEAKER_03 3:31

And in that environment, there was someone moving through everyday life who didn't stand out. Not in a way that raised concern, and not in a way that made people look twice.

SPEAKER_02 3:44

And that's exactly why he was dangerous.

SPEAKER_01 3:48

Ted Bundy, a college student, studying psychology, working toward a future that, on the surface, looked stable.

SPEAKER_03 4:01

He volunteered, worked in political campaigns, spent time around people who trusted him.

SPEAKER_02 4:08

And that trust was never accidental.

SPEAKER_03 4:13

I mean, I'm not an animal, I'm not crazy, I'm not a split personality.

SPEAKER_02 4:22

That's the voice people believed. Not forced, not aggressive, just normal.

SPEAKER_01 4:29

There is nothing outwardly alarming about him. No immediate red flags. No moment that would make someone step back and think, something is wrong.

SPEAKER_03 4:42

He knew how to speak, how to present himself, and how to mirror the expectations of the people around him. He didn't need to overpower anyone.

SPEAKER_02 4:52

He just needed to be trusted.

SPEAKER_01 4:56

And when you look back at where he came from, there are details that feel important, details that stand out in hindsight.

SPEAKER_03 5:07

Ted Bundy was born in 1946 as Theodore Robert Cowell, to a young unmarried mother, Louise Cowell, at a time when that alone carried stigma.

SPEAKER_02 5:22

For the first years of his life, he was raised believing his mother was his sister, and his grandparents were his parents.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

Eventually, his mother, Louise Cowell, moved to Washington, where she met and married a man named Johnny Culpepper Bundy. A cook. A stepfather who would give him something else.

SPEAKER_03 5:48

A new name. Theodore Robert Cowell became Theodore Robert Bundy.

SPEAKER_02 5:56

Yeah, so when he was a kid, because back in the day, you know, out of wet blocks. Yeah. So their his grandparents made him think that they were his real parents, so he would wouldn't know. That's fucked up. I know, I know, I know. He yeah. I think that that started it all. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:16

Yeah, he grew up thinking his mom was his sister.

SPEAKER_03 6:19

Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:20

That don't help.

SPEAKER_03 6:21

I wonder why he didn't trust people.

SPEAKER_02 6:23

Right. So yeah, that that's what that was. Not just a change in name, a shift in identity, something rewritten before anyone realized what it would become.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

That truth about his origins was never simple. By the time pieces of it surfaced, his sense of identity had already been shaped by something unstable.

SPEAKER_03 6:51

His grandfather, Samuel Cowell, was described as volatile, unpredictable. There were reports of violent outbursts, cruelty towards animals, a household environment that wasn't stable.

SPEAKER_02 7:08

His grandmother, Eleanor Louise Cowell, was present, but often described as submissive, part of a dynamic that didn't challenge that instability.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

There were also rumors that his grandfather, Samuel Cowell, may have been his biological father. But those claims were never proven.

SPEAKER_03 7:30

And in later years, DNA testing would not support that theory.

SPEAKER_01 7:35

Another name was suggested. Lloyd Marshall, a man who served in the Air Force. But even that was never fully verified.

SPEAKER_02 7:46

I think there was another name, too. Um Where are they from?

SPEAKER_01 7:50

Virginia?

SPEAKER_02 7:51

He was born in Vermont.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 7:54

Uh, but his mom, his biological mom, claimed that she met a war veteran named Jack Worthington, who abandoned her soon after she was pregnant. But Luis's younger sister, Audrey, described him as a nice, reputable person who nevertheless refused to pay child support. Um, but then on the birth certificate, apparently assigns paternity to a salesman in the United States Air Force veteran named Lloyd Marshall. And then census records reveal that several men by the name of John Worthington and Lloyd Marshall lived near Luis when Bundy was conceived. So yeah, we don't know who the real father is.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

Yeah, please a lot of open suggestion.

SPEAKER_02 8:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

Because the birth certificate says one thing, but nothing's been fully verified. Who's your daddy, boy?

SPEAKER_02 8:43

Who's your daddy?

SPEAKER_03 8:45

Who's your daddy?

SPEAKER_02 8:48

What is clear is that the truth about where he came from was uncertain and never stable.

SPEAKER_01 8:56

As he got older, there were small things. Stories that surfaced later. About secrecy, about control.

SPEAKER_03 9:08

Some of those accounts came from people who knew him as a child. Stories shared years after the fact. One described an incident where his aunt, Julia Cowell, woke up from a nap to find knives placed around her while she slept. And nearby, a three-year-old Ted Bundy standing at the edge of the bed, watching, smiling.

SPEAKER_00 9:37

Like little Chucky. Three years old.

SPEAKER_03 9:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:42

Jensen's only two, he's that time.

SPEAKER_03 9:45

The fuck. Birth control 101.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

Other accounts described him as a mean-spirited, someone who seemed to take interest in fear and control.

SPEAKER_03 10:00

There were claims of cruelty towards animals. Of where he hung a stray cat on a clothesline and set it on fire with lighter fluid. I want to hang him from a clothesline and douse him with gasoline and use a fucking blowtorch. And watch as his skin melts off of his damn body. But no, can't do that because the fucker's already dead. There were also stories of him luring younger children into the woods. Not to harm them physically, but to frighten them and to watch their reaction.

SPEAKER_02 10:41

Yeah, it says uh he um would take the younger children from the neighborhood into the woods, force them to strip, and proceed to terrorize them. They said you would hear them screaming for blocks. I mean, no matter where we were, we could hear them screaming. Bundy reportedly built makeshift pungey traps around his Tacoma neighborhood, injuring at least one girl. Fucker.

SPEAKER_01 11:05

Was that like where they the like a tiger pit?

SPEAKER_02 11:10

Yes, yes, that's what it is.

SPEAKER_01 11:11

They dig the hole and put like spikes and stuff at the bottom of it and cover the leaves.

SPEAKER_02 11:15

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 11:16

I was saying the name sounds familiar, but yeah, when you said trap, that that's what it made me as like Yeah, he like used sharp sticks and stuff.

SPEAKER_02 11:24

Like it ended up cutting her leg pretty bad.

SPEAKER_01 11:27

Yeah, I bet, because I mean they're usually I mean I don't imagine him being that young dug it too deep, but any fall into that unexpectingly is gonna cause harm.

SPEAKER_02 11:36

He was just a little shit when he was young.

SPEAKER_01 11:38

He's just a shit to the end.

SPEAKER_02 11:39

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:43

As he moved into adolescence, those patterns didn't disappear. They evolved.

SPEAKER_03 11:50

There were reports of him watching people, not interacting, but observing and waiting.

SPEAKER_02 11:58

Peering through windows, looking for moments that weren't meant to be seen. So watching women undress.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

How old were his victims? I mean, college students, right? But weren't some of them like 16?

SPEAKER_02 12:12

Because I mean they were just I think the youngest, 12. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01 12:15

But still younger than I thought, but Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_02 12:19

Kimberly Leach, age 12, was the youngest. No age is acceptable, but man. Serial killer Ted Bundy.

SPEAKER_01 12:25

She was the last victim?

unknown 12:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:28

Final known victim.

SPEAKER_01 12:32

Until the one that just came out?

SPEAKER_02 12:35

She was only in seventh grade. And she was kidnapped from her school, but we'll get into all the all that later.

SPEAKER_01 12:42

My stomach just meant a dick. Yeah, that made me sick. It's just weird that we're doing him and Slender Man. It kind of reminds me that he's Slender Man.

SPEAKER_03 12:55

Yeah. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

Because it said mostly teenager solemn, and then I thought a m majority of his victims were like 16 and under.

SPEAKER_02 13:01

Yeah, a majority of them were like college girls and teenagers, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:07

Okay. Right. I mean, you were always a piece of shit, but twelve years old. He later admitted to moving through neighborhoods at night, searching for something to watch.

SPEAKER_03 13:22

His accounts of this time were always consistent. Sometimes he denied it. Other times he described it in detail.

SPEAKER_02 13:31

Yeah, I think he was just an asshole who liked to play mind games, too. Fucking stupid ass motherfucker. You couldn't really believe everything he said either. He was a manip, obviously.

SPEAKER_01 13:40

This makes me think of that kid too. Can I show you what I was what I did?

SPEAKER_02 13:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:45

The human head and hands.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

Well, the way he started making the noises, mimicking the noises he supposedly made by murdering the man. I'm like, you should have kicked him in the face right there. What the fuck?

SPEAKER_03 13:55

I would have murdered him right there myself.

SPEAKER_01 13:57

I know, like I was scared for my life. He started growling on the ground by reenacting what he did. I thought he was going into some kind of blackout.

SPEAKER_02 14:03

It was Brian Kohey.

SPEAKER_01 14:06

Brian's or not to be trusted.

SPEAKER_02 14:09

No Brian Cobra.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

No Brian Cohey, no Brian Barndre.

SPEAKER_03 14:13

No Brian Laundry.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

Don't trust no Brian Griffin.

SPEAKER_03 14:18

No Brian's.

SPEAKER_02 14:20

Which makes one thing clear. He wasn't just hiding behavior, he was shaping a version of himself, depending on who was listening.

SPEAKER_01 14:32

There were also signs of something else. A growing fixation on identity.

SPEAKER_03 14:40

Psychologists would later suggest he fantasized about becoming someone different. Someone important.

SPEAKER_02 14:49

Yeah, I think at one point he wanted to be the president. Do you imagine?

SPEAKER_01 14:54

Well. He would have had his own Bundy Island. There would not have been a need for Epstein.

SPEAKER_03 14:59

I was about to say there wouldn't be no Epstein Island. It would be Bundies. Come to Bundy. Bundy land.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

Come to Bundies. It's like Buckeys, but everyone's under.

SPEAKER_02 15:09

Can you imagine his poor that poor stepdad though him taking his last name? Not just living his life, but rewriting it.

SPEAKER_01 15:20

In 1967, he entered a relationship with a woman named Diane.

SPEAKER_03 15:26

She was confident, accomplished, everything he wanted to be associated with.

SPEAKER_02 15:33

And when she ended that relationship, it affected him deeply.

SPEAKER_01 15:39

He would later describe her as the only woman he had ever truly loved.

SPEAKER_03 15:46

But years later, he would reenter her life. Different, more controlled.

SPEAKER_02 15:53

Only to leave her again without explanation.

SPEAKER_01 15:57

Not out of emotion, but to prove he could. What people saw was someone capable, educated, and approachable.

SPEAKER_03 16:40

Someone who could walk into a room and belong there.

SPEAKER_02 16:45

And nothing about him would have warned you. Nothing that would have made you step back. Nothing that would have made you say no. Not in time.

SPEAKER_01 16:59

By 1974, something had already begun. Not suddenly, not all at once. But quietly.

SPEAKER_03 17:11

Shortly after midnight, on January 4th, 1974, an 18-year-old college student was attacked inside her basement apartment in Seattle's University District. Her name was Karen Sparks. A student, a dancer, someone asleep in her own home.

SPEAKER_01 17:33

He broke in while she slept and attacked her with a metal rod taken from her own bed frame.

SPEAKER_03 17:43

She was beaten and severely assaulted. Left unconscious with devastating internal injuries.

SPEAKER_02 17:53

Yeah, I think he uh with the rod, he like went through her like ri it ripped through her bladder and everything. This poor lady. She's still alive. Do you imagine being his first victim? Good god. Well, at least the fucker's dead. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:13

I couldn't imagine being her or what's uh the one woman we just went over from Africa.

SPEAKER_02 18:19

Oh, Alice and Bolfa.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

Yeah, goodness gracious. Me and Eric still talk about that one sometimes. He's like, how the hell did she I'm like, I don't know, man. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 18:27

She got fucking lucky, is what happened. She got lucky.

SPEAKER_01 18:31

That's what I tried to tell him. I was like, the report said she literally was probably one stab away from her head being decapitated. So I don't know either, man. All I know is she held it together and crawled up that hill.

SPEAKER_02 18:42

Yeah. Um, but yeah, with uh Karen, I think she was down there like in her bedroom for 18 hours before her like housemate found her like that.

SPEAKER_00 18:57

And she survived?

SPEAKER_02 18:58

Yeah. Yeah, the interview I was watching of her, yeah, it was about 18 hours. Goodness. She remained unconscious for 10 days, and although she survived, she was left with permanent brain damage, loss of vision, and loss of hearing. And at the time, it wasn't seen as part of anything larger, just an isolated act of violence.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

Less than a month later, another student disappeared.

SPEAKER_03 19:36

Linda Ann Healy, a college student, a daughter, someone who had plans for the next morning.

SPEAKER_02 19:47

She vanished from her own apartment. Taken sometime during the night, and she was never seen again.

SPEAKER_01 19:56

Over the next few months, it kept happening. Not in the same place, not at the same time, but often enough to notice.

SPEAKER_03 20:08

In March, Donna Gail Manson disappeared. On her way to a concert, she never arrived.

SPEAKER_01 20:17

In April, Susan Elaine Rancourt walked toward her dorm and never made it inside.

SPEAKER_03 20:26

In May, Roberta Kathleen Parks left to meet friends and vanished.

SPEAKER_02 20:34

And in June, Brenda Carroll Ball disappeared after leaving a bar late at night. Different lives, different routines, different places. But the outcome was always the same.

SPEAKER_01 20:51

At first, they didn't seem connected. Different towns, different circumstances.

SPEAKER_03 21:00

But the similarities were there. Young women, college students walking alone.

SPEAKER_01 21:10

Then in June, another disappearance. One that would change everything.

SPEAKER_03 21:19

Georgian Hawkins vanished while walking through a well-lit alley on her own campus. Just steps away from where she should have been safe.

SPEAKER_02 21:33

She didn't scream. There was no struggle. Anyone could hear. But by morning, there was nothing left behind.

SPEAKER_01 21:43

Investigators searched that alley inch by inch. On their hands and knees, looking for anything.

SPEAKER_03 21:52

They found nothing. No evidence. No clear indication of what happened.

SPEAKER_02 21:58

But later. He would admit that he returned to that same scene while investigators were still there and quietly took back what he had left behind.

SPEAKER_01 22:14

By this point, something was forming. Descriptions that matched. Encounters that felt similar. Names that began to repeat.

SPEAKER_03 22:29

Witnesses describe the same man, the same approach, and the same story.

SPEAKER_02 22:40

And by the time anyone realized, he had already done it again.

SPEAKER_01 22:47

By this point, there were already questions, but not answers. Not yet.

SPEAKER_03 22:56

What witnesses began describing didn't sound like someone dangerous. It sounded like someone who needed help.

SPEAKER_02 23:04

A man, well spoken, put together, approachable.

SPEAKER_01 23:09

Sometimes he wore a sling. Other times a cast.

SPEAKER_03 23:17

He would approach women in parking lots, on campus, near their cars, and ask for help.

SPEAKER_02 23:24

Carrying books. Loading something heavy, moving something into his vehicle.

SPEAKER_01 23:31

The car was described the same way. A Volkswagen beetle. Light colored. Often reported as Tan or beige.

SPEAKER_02 23:43

But nothing about it stood out. Which made it easy to miss. And when he introduced himself, he used his name. He just didn't care.

SPEAKER_01 23:59

Nope.

SPEAKER_03 24:00

He was just plain stupid as fuck. He couldn't be like a Bill. You know, it kind of reminds me of like friends. Because Phoebe and um Joey talk about, you know, that they could pretend to be somebody else, and they literally look at each other and he's like, Hi, I'm Ken. And she goes, Hi, I'm Regina. It's like, see how easy that is?

unknown 24:23

Wait.

SPEAKER_03 24:24

No. I'm Ted. I'm Ted. I might as well just give you my social security number while I'm at it.

SPEAKER_01 24:31

Didn't Kemper do the same thing? Didn't he just tell him his name was Ed? I don't think he ever told him his last name, but I thought he could have told like he just straight up told him the name was Ed.

SPEAKER_02 24:40

Yeah, that guy, Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 24:42

Or uh Gean. Didn't he just tell them like well, I guess everybody knew who he was, so Well yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:49

Yeah, everyone knew Ed.

SPEAKER_01 24:50

He was kinda already locally famous.

SPEAKER_02 24:52

I mean, he only killed those, what, two, three, two women?

SPEAKER_01 24:54

Yeah, because everybody else is already dead.

SPEAKER_02 24:56

Bernice. Yeah. And uh She's not missing.

SPEAKER_01 24:58

She's not in my place right now. She's my lampshade while I read books with her.

unknown 25:04

Stop it.

SPEAKER_01 25:06

She keeps me company at night. Nice and warm.

SPEAKER_03 25:09

She keeps it nice and lit in my house for me.

SPEAKER_01 25:12

She helps me while I make some tea.

unknown 25:14

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

Mama likes her.

SPEAKER_02 25:17

I'm so sorry, Bernice. Don't talk about it.

SPEAKER_01 25:19

Sorry, Bernice. Don't haunt me.

SPEAKER_02 25:22

That was awful what happened to her, but Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_01 25:26

Could you just imagine?

SPEAKER_02 25:27

Like knowing that. Oh, my body's gonna be used as a repurposed as a I'm gonna be used as a couch cushion now.

SPEAKER_01 25:34

I mean, younger, I always thought a mortician was a pretty morbid job, you know, but I mean it's a necess it's a necessity.

SPEAKER_03 25:40

Didn't you want to be a mortician there for a minute? I wanted to do um uh was it the embalming process or something or part of the criminals?

SPEAKER_02 25:48

Forensic I wanted to be a forensic pathologist where you did autopsies.

SPEAKER_01 25:52

So similar, just more.

SPEAKER_03 25:58

See that schooling right there scared me away.

SPEAKER_01 26:01

I'd like to do the regular investigating, not really go into their bodies.

SPEAKER_02 26:04

But I was thinking of like Well, it was just interesting, like thinking about how someone uh like how someone died.

SPEAKER_01 26:10

But if there's a if there's a group project, no, I'll go look for the people and you can look through the body.

SPEAKER_02 26:14

I wanted to be a forensic pathologist, but then the turnover rate was I heard was it was very hard to pass, so that scared me away.

SPEAKER_01 26:22

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 26:23

Well, you gotta have really good eyes for it.

SPEAKER_02 26:25

Oh, that and know all the names and like cut through this, or he had a heart attack because it's I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 26:32

Go through his aortic section and dissect at exactly 10 and 12 degrees.

SPEAKER_01 26:37

Is that what it means? What the biological part?

SPEAKER_03 26:41

You screwed it up.

SPEAKER_02 26:42

I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_03 26:42

What? 10 and 12 degrees? Where what? Right there.

SPEAKER_02 26:46

Well, that wasn't the part I cut.

SPEAKER_03 26:48

I wasn't told that.

SPEAKER_02 26:50

You're fired.

SPEAKER_01 26:52

Like, oh shit. That would be you wanted to keep that?

SPEAKER_03 26:55

I always wanted to be a blood splatter analysis to see fun though. Just to see, you know, like how the bullet entered somebody to see where it actually entered at and exited at or like somebody being hit with a crowbar where the blood actually went to see, you know, if they were left-handed or right-handed. Like that interests me for some reason.

SPEAKER_02 27:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:15

So it's man, what is the technical name for that though? That I don't I'm I've that'd be cool too, because I always love that portion of like uh Forged and Fire and Deadliest Warrior, like where they break down what the bullet or what the weapon did after it entered the body. Oh yeah, if it showed like the different serrations and how you could tell if it was a clean blade or a serrated blade, and then in July, something changed.

SPEAKER_03 27:44

At Lake Samanish State Park in broad daylight, multiple women encountered the same man.

SPEAKER_02 27:52

He was described as attractive, wearing a white tennis outfit, his arm, and a sling.

SPEAKER_03 28:08

Some refused, but something felt off. They walked away.

SPEAKER_02 28:16

But not everyone did.

SPEAKER_01 28:18

Two women left with him that day Janice Ann Ott and Denise Marie Nusland.

SPEAKER_03 28:28

In the middle of a crowded beach in broad daylight, surrounded by people.

SPEAKER_02 28:35

I guess to him, he just didn't. I mean he gave no fucks. I mean, he used his what charm? I mean, who like a normal person?

SPEAKER_03 28:43

Like, hey, but he was not attractive.

SPEAKER_01 28:46

He asked them to help unload a sailboat from his car. I'm like, what the fuck kind of sailboat you got in your face?

SPEAKER_03 28:53

Exactly. And for a beetle to be pulling that thing behind.

SPEAKER_02 29:04

That's what he could do.

SPEAKER_03 29:05

Yeah, but even that beetle, it's gonna have a hell of a time trying to get up a damn hill with a big boy.

SPEAKER_01 29:10

Sailboats are pretty big.

SPEAKER_03 29:12

This motherfucker gave no fucks.

SPEAKER_01 29:14

No, he was crazy.

SPEAKER_02 29:16

Yeah, Ted Bundy, in 1974, Tub Bundy used a fake arm injury and rose about needing help with a sailboat to lure his victims at Lake Samamish State Park to his Volkswagen Beetle.

SPEAKER_01 29:30

But as soon as he saw the beetle, they're like, Well, the fuck's a sailboat? Because the beetle would fit on most sailboats, so that's why I'm confused.

SPEAKER_02 29:37

So did he have a sa No, he didn't.

SPEAKER_01 29:39

He was just a straight liar, and they're like, Oh, you got a herd arm, I'll help you with your sailboat. They saw the bunny, he's like, Gotcha, bitch. The buggy, I meant the buggy, not the bunny.

SPEAKER_02 29:49

I wonder if the grabber was like like based off him, you know, because he would like stop the kids and was like, hey, can whatever, and then he would just Hey, you guys wanna help me with a sailboat in my basement?

SPEAKER_00 30:01

You wanna help me build one? This guy was fucked up.

SPEAKER_01 30:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:05

Oh, right here. Ted Bundy was known to have used a Volkswagen Beetle um for his abductions, blah blah blah blah blah. The beetle was a light-colored car that he parked near the exit of the parking lot at Lake Samamish State Park, where he attempted to convince women to help him with the sailboat, which was never present.

SPEAKER_01 30:27

That's where my confusion was.

SPEAKER_03 30:28

So he was straight up a lot like and I'd be like, uh, where's your sailboat at?

SPEAKER_02 30:32

So he never had a sailboat.

SPEAKER_01 30:34

Come you could see from across the parking lot if somebody has a sailboat.

SPEAKER_02 30:39

He I mean, it obviously worked, unfortunately. It did.

SPEAKER_01 30:42

That's what I'm saying. Like, did these I mean. And I feel like doing it in the middle of broad daylight, I think he used that as like, well, no one's gonna He probably also didn't tell him, help me get the sailboat from my Volkswagen Beetle.

SPEAKER_02 30:54

Probably pick it up or something. Yeah, so get it from the dock or something.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

But in that point in time, they probably assumed the same thing that he needed help unloading his sailboat. Like, oh yeah, where's it at? But yeah, that's insane. But for the same he did. He did it for the reason it was pure daylight, and it seemed more innocent to ask for help in a parking lot around the lake.

SPEAKER_02 31:16

So he was born in 46. Yeah, he was born on Lane's birthday, by the way. November.

SPEAKER_01 31:21

No, Lane was born on his birthday.

SPEAKER_02 31:23

Lane was born on November 24th.

SPEAKER_03 31:27

Great. But um. Oh, and you know what? That's when I was diagnosed with my diabetes. What the f that's rather. That was Ted Bundy's way of getting at me. Oh my god. He's like, I can't murder anyone, but guess what? I'm gonna make sure your pancreas stops working. It's fucked up.

SPEAKER_02 31:44

We're gonna do that. We're gonna blame we're gonna blame that on Ted Bundy.

SPEAKER_03 31:48

I'm blaming my durabetis on Ted Bundy. Thank you, little cocksucker. And you just say Bundy did it, and they're like, what? What? Yeah, Ted Bundy gave me the derbietus, alright? He fucked me over. I was his last victim. Oh my gosh. He's like, I can't actually kill her, so I'm just gonna kill an organ in her body that'll make her slowly die eventually. Oh my god. So depressing.

SPEAKER_02 32:13

Hey, we're all dying, unfortunately. Slowly somehow.

SPEAKER_03 32:18

I'm gonna I'm gonna fucking meet Ted Bundy at the the gates of hell and be like, bro, you owe me a new pinkerous. Oh my god. Give me your give it back, you fucking cocksucker.

SPEAKER_01 32:31

That's the deal I'm gonna make with a Jeepers creeping. You let me box all these dead pedophiles. If I win, I ain't gonna stay down here with him.

SPEAKER_03 32:40

If I win! I get to go back up!

SPEAKER_01 32:42

It's like, hey man, I might belong in hell, but this is a little too deep. Like, I'm I don't belong this far down.

SPEAKER_03 32:47

I ain't that far down.

SPEAKER_01 32:48

Yeah, I didn't do that shit right there. I just didn't go to church every Sunday and worship like this.

SPEAKER_02 32:53

In 74 when he started doing he was born 46. So he was how old during this thir twenty-nine? Twenty-nine. Right? Or twenty-eight? If he's born in thirty s or forty-six seventy? Yeah, so he was like twenty-eight during this time when he first started. Jeez.

SPEAKER_03 33:12

Well he's technically he started when he was three years old by lining his aunt's body with knives.

SPEAKER_01 33:18

Yeah, he started doing some weird shit.

SPEAKER_03 33:20

He started doing shit as soon as he came out the fucking womb.

SPEAKER_01 33:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:24

That's probably why his grandpa is his actual father.

SPEAKER_01 33:26

So is that nurture or nature?

SPEAKER_03 33:30

Ugh.

SPEAKER_02 33:32

And no one realized what they were seeing.

SPEAKER_01 33:36

After that, everything started to connect. Witnesses, uh descriptions, uh encounters.

SPEAKER_03 33:46

The same man, the same story, the same name.

SPEAKER_02 33:53

By the time it became clear, he had already perfected it.

SPEAKER_03 33:57

Investigators began comparing cases, looking at timelines, locations, and descriptions.

SPEAKER_01 34:07

Dozens, then hundreds.

SPEAKER_03 34:12

People reporting the same man with the same car, a Volkswagen Beetle, light-colored, often described as tan or beige.

SPEAKER_02 34:20

But there was no physical evidence. Nothing solid enough to stop him.

SPEAKER_03 34:31

Clean cut, educated, no criminal record.

SPEAKER_02 34:36

Someone you wouldn't suspect.

SPEAKER_01 34:40

Because it's always them. Every time.

SPEAKER_02 34:44

Well, look at Ed Kimper. He's just sitting in the in the bar with all these cops, being friends with them, you know.

SPEAKER_01 34:50

Have you seen those newer TikTok videos where they're like, all those tattoos make you look like a criminal, then it shows pictures of like Jeffrey Epstein and the Clintons and all those nations with no tattoos, and I'm like Joelstein.

SPEAKER_02 35:03

I'm gonna trust somebody with creepy. That you have so many fucking houses and you're supposed to uh You're a fucking preacher. Yeah. Preach to God.

SPEAKER_01 35:13

You should have no offshore accounts because then that takes money away from our fucking society.

SPEAKER_03 35:18

First of all, you shouldn't have a building that big for a church. And he has several houses. You should not have a fucking Lamborghini being a preacher. I don't care how much. And he has a jet.

SPEAKER_01 35:28

That's how you know the difference between them doing it for money and them actually doing it because they care.

SPEAKER_03 35:32

I just gotta realize we haven't done one over at Colt yet. Ah, we haven't. No. Charles Manson.

SPEAKER_02 35:43

That was fucking nuts.

SPEAKER_01 35:46

He's another one that, like very interesting how people followed him and his ideas.

SPEAKER_02 35:51

I'm gonna watch an interview with him and he's like, he's like I could kill you right now. With this book in my hand, but I'm not going to because I never killed someone.

SPEAKER_01 35:58

What do you say? You don't mean shit to me yourself.

SPEAKER_03 36:03

He was crazy. So I just looked up what is the worst cult in American history? The People's Temple. What's that? Is that the Jonestown? Jim Jones.

SPEAKER_01 36:12

Jonestown, yep. The Kool-Aid Man.

SPEAKER_03 36:14

Oh yeah, we need to do that one. Yep. The People's Temple is often cited as the worst cult in American history due to its tragic and violent end founded by Jim Jones in 1955.

SPEAKER_01 36:24

Talked everybody into taking their lives. There were supposed to be a comet passing, and they believe if they died at the same time it passed, they would be able to get on this comet. And it would take them to the real leader, the real God.

SPEAKER_03 36:36

Sorry, these people are idiots. It's all it's kind of like the Colton festas.

SPEAKER_01 36:41

I mean, you read all these religious books and you're like, what the fuck is going on? Like, I was growing up the told these were all fairy tales. Like, they're no different than Harry Potter, and these people are dying for it.

SPEAKER_03 36:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:55

By the time investigators realized what they were looking at, it was already happening again.

SPEAKER_03 37:03

Another disappearance. Another name. Another life gone.

SPEAKER_02 37:10

And by the time anyone understood the pattern, he had already perfected it. So if you guys came across a guy like this.

SPEAKER_01 37:23

I don't know. Being ignorant, I'd be like.

SPEAKER_02 37:32

If you guys crossed paths with this guy, would you have seen it? I don't see it. My me neither, especially after the all this, but I feel like a younger me.

SPEAKER_01 37:43

I I don't want to blame it. I mean, because back in the day, especially, it seems like people were more gullible.

SPEAKER_02 37:51

And they were well, more trusty.

SPEAKER_01 37:53

Well, that's gullible. That's gullibility.

SPEAKER_02 37:56

Well, like my grandpa said they would get rides from strangers all the time and they would drop them off.

SPEAKER_03 38:01

And you gotta think though, back then too, you didn't have like social media and stuff, so you didn't have any of that to kind of guide you of hey, let's not get into cars with strangers because you don't know what they're actually keeping.

SPEAKER_01 38:11

Whatever your area was is what you believe.

SPEAKER_02 38:13

Looking at what he did, I mean he was well dressed, wasn't creepy looking, you know, like he was clean shaved. I don't know. I just want to know where the attractive parts come in from.

SPEAKER_03 38:25

Yeah, because every time I fucking see the dude, I'm like, you're not. You've got a fucking perm.

SPEAKER_02 38:29

But he was like clean shaved, you know, like he didn't look like a bum.

SPEAKER_01 38:32

Well, that's what I even if I was a woman back then, I feel like I'd be the same. I'd be like, I'm sorry, sir, I got something else to do.

SPEAKER_02 38:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:40

I mean I'm not very helpful. I mean, I I know it's rude of me, but I'm not very helpful to strangers.

SPEAKER_02 38:45

Like some of these poor women, he was probably who knows how long he was stalking her. I'm like nurse.

SPEAKER_01 38:50

That's about it. Um like sorry about your luck. Like, I've been out in the rain changing my tire. I've been out in the rain waiting for the tow truck in my phone.

SPEAKER_02 39:01

Who lived? He obviously was stalking her and went to her basement and beat her with a metal rod, and then Melinda Hughes, she was past that part.

SPEAKER_01 39:10

That's that's fucking.

SPEAKER_03 39:11

She was an she he it's all.

SPEAKER_01 39:16

You said he broke through her bladder?

SPEAKER_02 39:18

Yeah. That's what she said in her interview. I was watching interview. Yeah, I was sad.

SPEAKER_01 39:23

I mean, she went through it. I I mean I don't doubt anything she said. She has brain damage still. Like how what the f she should have got to legally beat him in the head until he died. Oh, I was like, Well then that Linda Healy I'm gonna run for president, and these are the things I'm gonna let happen.

SPEAKER_02 39:41

He just went into her same thing, went to the apartment she was staying in with multi other multiple women, like uh households.

SPEAKER_01 39:47

It's not murder, it's assisted extra.

SPEAKER_02 39:49

And he just took her. And they went and and what's messed up is he made her bed.

SPEAKER_01 39:56

This is Brian Koberger's hero.

SPEAKER_02 39:58

And they took off the sheets and found blood on the mattress. So he like took the time to make and then they found a bloody n I think nightgown in her closet. So he dressed, I don't know what he did. But anyways, he took the body out, obviously.

SPEAKER_03 40:11

So he could do things with it later.

SPEAKER_02 40:13

But it made it look like she just left, willingly.

SPEAKER_01 40:16

Yeah, because he willingly admitted that he came back multiple times to these bodies after.

SPEAKER_02 40:22

Yeah, we'll get into that later, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:24

But same.

SPEAKER_02 40:25

I'm just trying to look at like what back then, you know, like that's the only thing, because I mean I remember your grandma saying those things too.

SPEAKER_01 40:31

Like, that's just how it was.

SPEAKER_02 40:32

And if he was just like caring, but can you help me with that? I don't know. I don't know. Nowadays, I no. I wouldn't have to be.

SPEAKER_03 40:38

My anxiety is too high for if somebody's to come up and ask me for help, I'd be like, bye. But the sad thing is never heard those things.

SPEAKER_01 40:46

Because obviously, my mom always told us and never, never talk to motherfuckers. Don't talk to anybody. Like. And even like when we went to school, she used to tell us strictly there's only her and at the time my stepdad. Like that was the only two people, not our family members. Like, if I mean, there's many times I was yelled at for not being home on time. There's many times she called the cops and I was like, you could have just, you know, came knocked on the door. I was down the hill. Because I was usually in the apartments, but yeah, I don't agree with that either. I mean, I'd never let my kids do that.

SPEAKER_02 41:17

My dad yelled at me just walking over to your house that time.

SPEAKER_01 41:21

Oh yeah. Carol, like Carol would fucking freak out if I walked down the hill if I wasn't going to the bus stop. I'm like, you need to calm down.

SPEAKER_03 41:27

I mean people are nuts. I used to sneak out with Oh yeah, who did it? Justin, my ex. Who did it? Yeah, I I just my anxiety would have been too bad for me. I would have been like, no, I'm okay. I can't help you, sorry. I've got my own my own ailments.

SPEAKER_01 41:44

Like all these grown-ass men around here, and you're walking up to a group of young girls asking him for help with your.

SPEAKER_03 42:26

Well, just like Ed Gimber's. Exactly. Very intelligent. I mean, if you ever notice, a lot of them have very high intelligence. Yes. And obviously it made them very fucking stupid.

SPEAKER_02 42:35

I know I'm like, you have such high intelligence, but you do stupid stuff.

SPEAKER_03 42:40

How does common sense when you have when you have a high IQ, common sense goes out the door.

SPEAKER_01 42:45

That's my thing.

SPEAKER_03 42:46

Like they probably think they can get obviously get away with ego too.

SPEAKER_01 42:49

Because they don't have common sense, or is it because like that might have been part of their plan the whole time? Like Kimper. He got bored of it. He finally got bored enough where he's like, No, I I killed these people, you know, you gotta come get me. But he just really wanted his mom dead. After he did that point, he's like, I'm done.

SPEAKER_03 43:04

They're very ego-driven.

SPEAKER_01 43:06

Yeah, definitely. There are some the ego does help you make mistakes, but a lot of them I think they get to a point where they're tired of running. They don't want to do this no more.

SPEAKER_02 43:16

No.

SPEAKER_01 43:16

Or like BTK, like, he didn't want to get caught until he wanted to be caught. Like he wanted to be known, but when he was ready.

SPEAKER_02 43:23

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 43:23

What did he say? He was mad he didn't reach 50?

SPEAKER_02 43:26

Well, yeah. No, that wasn't him. That wasn't him. I was about to say that's still Willie Picton, right? I was about to say that was Willie Picton, I think.

SPEAKER_01 43:32

Oh, I was gonna say it wasn't uh Yeah, it was Willie Picton. It wasn't the fucking homeboy from Ferguson or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 43:38

Maury Travis?

SPEAKER_01 43:39

Yeah, I thought he was mad too that he didn't get to a certain number. Oh, Willie Picton was mad because he Yeah, he was fucking so many messed up.

unknown 43:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:50

Yeah, but I feel the same. There's no way. I would have just been like, I'm sorry, sir. Every man here and you're just gonna ask a bunch of sixteen year old girls to help you. Like I know I know, like they just wanted to be helpful. But it's also theory.

SPEAKER_03 44:02

Teenagers are vulnerable. Well, think up think about this. Why why Vecna took Will.

SPEAKER_02 44:10

And that concludes part one of the Ted Bundy case.

SPEAKER_01 44:14

The mask. How he was seen before anyone realized what was really there.

SPEAKER_03 44:22

In part two, we'll take a closer look at the victims, the lives that were taken, and the moments where this could have been stopped.

SPEAKER_02 44:32

The warning signs that were missed.

SPEAKER_03 44:36

If you've been listening to Veil of Echoes, following the show or leaving a review really does help us grow.

SPEAKER_02 44:42

Yes. Please, please, please leave a review.

SPEAKER_01 44:46

It takes less than a minute, but it helps these stories reach more people.

SPEAKER_02 44:51

And we really do appreciate you more than you know.

SPEAKER_01 44:56

And this Friday, we're stepping away from true crime. And on to something else.

SPEAKER_03 45:04

A ship that carried thousands across the ocean, but some say not all of them ever left.

SPEAKER_02 45:13

The Queen Mary, where footsteps echo through empty halls, voices carry through walls that should be silent. And deep below deck, something may still be there. Waiting. Until then, keep your ears open.

SPEAKER_01 45:34

And the veil closed.