The Unsolved Murder of Cayci Higgins | Exclusive Interview with Her Sister

In February 1999, 19-year-old Cayci Higgins was murdered inside her own home in Cleveland, Tennessee.

More than two decades later...
 her family is still searching for answers.

In this special episode, we're honored to sit down with Kim, Cayci's sister, to remember who Cayci truly was beyond the headlines. Together, we discuss Cayci's life, the devastating impact her murder had on their family, the unanswered questions that remain, and why they still believe someone knows what happened.

This conversation isn't about sensationalizing a tragedy.

It's about keeping Cayci's story alive.

Because someone, somewhere, may still hold the missing piece.

If you know anything about the murder of Cayci Higgins, please contact the appropriate law enforcement agency.

❤️ Justice begins with remembering.

Show Notes

In this episode:

•  The life of Cayci Higgins 
•  The triple homicide that shocked Cleveland, Tennessee 
•  An exclusive conversation with Cayci's sister, Kim 
•  How grief changes a family forever 
•  Why this case remains unsolved 
•  The importance of keeping cold cases in the public eye 

If this episode touched you, please consider sharing it. Every share helps keep Cayci's story alive.

🎙 Hosted by:
 Bria, Lyndsay & Zach

🎵 Original music composed by Dave D'Addario

Follow Veil of Echoes:

Instagram:
 @veilofechoespodcast

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Facebook:
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Email:
 veilofechoespodcast@gmail.com

Sources

•  Interview with Kim Higgins, sister of Cayci Higgins 
•  Publicly available news reports covering the Cayci Higgins case 
•  Court records and publicly available case information 
•  Law enforcement information released regarding the investigation 

Special Thanks

❤️ Kim Higgins
 for trusting us with Cayci's story and allowing us to help keep her memory alive.

❤️ The Famous Grave Co.
 for connecting us with Kim and supporting this collaboration.

🎵 Original music composed by Dave D'Addario

✨ Step through the veil with us…

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🕯️ New episodes drop every Monday (True Crime) & Friday (Paranormal) — where true crime meets the supernatural.

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Beneath the ordinary world lies a veil, and behind it, the voices of the lost still whisper.

SPEAKER_03 0:09

We are your guides into the shadows, where true crime meets the paranormal.

SPEAKER_00 0:15

From chilling crimes to haunted histories, we uncover the stories that refuse to rest.

SPEAKER_05 0:23

This is Vale of Echoes.

SPEAKER_03 0:33

Welcome back to Veil of Echoes, where true crime meets the unexplained. I'm Lindsay.

SPEAKER_04 0:38

And I'm Bria. And today's episode is a little different. On February 14th, 1999, three people were murdered inside an apartment in Cleveland, Tennessee. One of them was 19-year-old Casey Higgins. For more than 20 years later, questions still surround what happened that night. Questions that continue to linger for the people who loved her most. But before Casey became a headline, before she became a case file, and before she became part of a criminal investigation, she was a daughter, a sister, a friend, and a young woman with dreams, plans, and a future she deserved a chance to live. Today we're honored to be joined by Casey's sister Kim. So over the next hour, we'll talk about who Casey was, the life she was building, the day everything changed, and the impact her loss continues to have more than two decades later. More importantly, we're going to remember the person behind the headlines. Because this is not just the story of a murder. This is the story of Casey Higgins.

SPEAKER_03 1:41

Kim, first and foremost, thank you for being here with us today. Um before we begin, we just want to say how grateful that we are that you've trusted us with Casey's story 100%. Today's conversation is simply an opportunity for our listeners to get to know Casey through someone who knew and loved her. We're honored that you're here with us today. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_04 2:04

We're excited to have you. So before we talk about the case itself, we'd love for our listeners to meet Casey. Um, so what was Casey like growing up?

SPEAKER_02 2:15

Um, well, I think I have to start this story with the coolest fact of all is that she was born on my fifth birthday. Oh so you know, how neat is that to get a little baby sister for your birthday? That's that's amazing. Yeah, it was it was pretty, pretty cool. And that was that's something that has always been just, you know, our birthday cakes always had birth both of our names. You know, when she turned one and I turned six, it always said birthday, Casey and Kim. And um, to be honest with you, that was one of the hardest things after she passed away was um sorry that's emotional.

SPEAKER_01 2:49

Wow, having, you know, a birthday without her. So that was a pretty special, special thing to get a little fire red headed um baby sister for for my birthday.

SPEAKER_02 3:01

And um, that's what I think is most, you know, important to know about her is her spunk and her spirit and determination. And I think that she had that um spunk and determination to get through some really hard and difficult things. Um she was diagnosed, I think if I'm not, I hope I'm remembering this correctly, but I think it was around 18 months old. Um, she had tumor, um, these tumors and growths on her growth plates and her knees, um, which made one of her legs significantly shorter than the other. So from the time she was itty bitty, itty bitty, like two years old, she started having surgeries to correct that. So she would have a normal gait and her leg wouldn't be so significantly shorter. Um, and she had the fastest little spirit to fight through that. I mean, if I could say anything about her, that would be it. Like you always knew she was in the room. You always heard her singing at the top of her lungs. Um, she was definitely the apple of my parents' eye. She was the baby, so she was spooled rotten. Um, and you knew it. And she always loved babies. And I everybody will tell you that. They everywhere you go, if you were at church with her, anywhere you were with her, she had a baby on her hip. And that's what she she loved the little, the little kids, the little ones. Um, but those are just some things that I think are important. It's just that I feel like she was born with the personality to get through such a difficult thing because she had to have multiple surgeries. It wasn't just one. And she had to do um some really intense, intense physical therapy. And my dad would have to take her and get this whirlpool therapy and just all of these things. And her last surgery was pretty significant. Um, she had this huge device on her leg that had it's almost like a halo, if you've ever seen one on somebody's bed. Yes. It was like that, but it was on her leg. And so the bones were severed, but that way they could continue to grow and kept the marrow like intact.

SPEAKER_04 5:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 5:09

And we would have she would have to take a device and and and turn those screws and lengthen her leg. And so excruciating. I mean, it was just so painful. So she had to live through that. And um, I think that's what's so heartbreaking is because she had just gotten to a point in her life where she could be like everybody else, you know. She could live a somewhat normal life without all the medical appointments and the surgeries. So I think that's what's really heartbreaking is that she had gotten to such a point in her life, finally, okay, finally, you know, I have a life. And then, you know, for that to be taken, that's pretty, that's pretty tragic.

SPEAKER_04 5:50

Oh, yeah. It sounds like her personality, she was amazing. That's yeah, just to overcome something like that. That's that's amazing. Yeah. And what that made her like, you know, stronger as a person too. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 6:02

Yeah. And very compassionate. I feel like that helped her to be compassionate towards other people that had issues like that. Right. It just makes you, you know, look at other things differently.

SPEAKER_04 6:12

Differently, for sure. Yeah. So with Casey, what are some of your favorite memories you have of her?

SPEAKER_02 6:20

Um, I would say, you know, she didn't get to do a whole lot, just to be honest. Um, you know, when she was younger and she always had a cast on her leg. So it's not like we went on these great family vacations and she could get in the pool. You know, it wasn't, she didn't have a life like a typical child. So it was very much different. It was more uh centered around the home. But I do have, I mean, some of my favorite, favorite memories would be at the baseball field. So we would my dad uh umped ball, he umped ball or he would coach. And so she and I would play, like on the playground, and I would take take care of her and we would hang out. So probably that would be because that's the time that she and I would have just me and her. Right. Um, and that would be our special like time together would be at the ball field. And that was when she could actually get out and and go somewhere and do something. Um, and I do think, I mean, I remember one time somebody there kind of said some things like towards her, and I was like, don't talk to her like that, you know. And I think always being that protective big sister and her always coming to me kind of for that was another, you know, I kind of felt like that was almost my role and my job. Her protector. Her protector, yeah. And then of course our birthdays. I know that's that's awesome. That's amazing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So we always always shared a party, always. That's awesome.

unknown 7:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:40

We never never knew a birthday without each other, you know. Like it's just normal. It was like exactly our life, you know.

SPEAKER_04 7:46

Right, yeah. It's like, you know, you guys come, that's like your thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. So um, what made Casey special to the people around her?

SPEAKER_02 7:58

I know you kind of like went over that, but I would think her per her personality so outgoing. Like you didn't have to, she would talk to literally anybody about anything. And when I say she was loud, I mean she was loud. Like just very much she was gonna get your attention. And there was just no way around it. Like she was the center of the attention if we were anywhere to get, you know, together, which I think is really great too, because to have something that is a physical, I mean kind of like a deformity. I don't know what else to call it. Yeah. Um, and being even caught made fun of for that, you know, she was called peg leg or limp or, you know, different things to have that, but not let it keep you from being like front and center. You know, like she never acted like it bothered her, to be honest. I mean that's awesome. She just she just went with it and limp just moved that leg just as fast as she could go, you know, like it never kept her back.

SPEAKER_04 8:59

Right.

SPEAKER_02 9:00

It never kept her back.

SPEAKER_04 9:01

Wow, that's awesome. Like that's someone I would look up to too, though, you know. Like I mean that you shouldn't, you know, let other people's negativity affect. So that's awesome. She had that trait.

SPEAKER_02 9:11

Yeah. And if it did, she never said anything about it. Of course, yeah. She knew how to hide it well. That's good too. Absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:19

So what would you want listeners to know about her first before about hearing the case?

SPEAKER_02 9:26

Well, I think um that she was a person, that she was a person that was valued, that was loved, that was cherished.

SPEAKER_01 9:33

Um that she had a family that loved her and that she was stolen, you know, and we don't know what her life would have been like. I know. And um that she was she was loved. I mean, she wasn't perfect, like any of us aren't.

SPEAKER_05 9:52

Right.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

Um, you know, the the part about her being spoiled, there was the opposite side of that.

SPEAKER_02 9:56

She could be kind of bratty too. You know, anybody that has a sister can say she's a brat.

SPEAKER_01 10:02

Right. She was bratty.

SPEAKER_02 10:05

But, you know, just that she still was very much loved by her family and and deserved to grow up and have all the babies she wanted to have because she wanted a lot of them. And um, so that's that's what I would want people to know that she had just gotten to a place in her life um at 19. Her leg she had um tissue expanders in her leg. I don't know if you've ever heard of that or not, but it's almost like a breast implant, you know, and they put uh fluid in it. And she was just about to have plastic surgery to correct some of the scars. So I even think she had that goal and that dream in mind of finally, you know, getting some normalcy there. Right. So she didn't get it even a chance to to have that done. Gosh.

SPEAKER_04 10:52

Well, yeah. I mean, did she have any like like what was she wanting to do? Did she have plans on like with school or like what she wanted to be? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:02

No, she wanted to be a mom. I would say she wanted to get she wanted to get married and she wanted to be, I I would say over anything and everything, it would have been to have I'm serious. Like she really wanted lots of kids. That's awesome. Yeah. I don't know of any other major goals that she had at the time. I think because of her disability, she had the setback of almost being probably more a little bit emotionally immature, maybe. Um so I don't know that she had thought much about a career or anything like that. She never really talked a lot about it. Now she did love to sing. Like she absolutely loved to sing, and she was actually pretty talented, I think. But as far as dreams and aspirations, the biggest thing that I knew that she wanted to do was have have have a family.

SPEAKER_04 11:45

I love that. That and I mean at 19, you know, you're still you still have I didn't even know what I wanted to do yet. So I went to, I'm a nurse now, but I went to like three different I like I don't know what I want to do. So yeah, she was cool, she was still really young. Exactly. Life ahead of her.

SPEAKER_03 12:02

Yeah. So we heard you say that Casey wasn't simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. She was home in her own bed. Yes. Um, could you talk to us why that's important for people to understand?

SPEAKER_02 12:17

Yeah, that has been a comment that has been made since day one. I mean, since the day that it happened. Like these other people were involved in some scrupulous things. Up supposedly, I don't even know how much of that's true, to be completely honest. But, you know, she was not involved in that. And so, so people would say that all the all the time, she was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. She was in, and it didn't even dawn on me, honestly, till this, till recently. I was like, you know, she was not in the wrong place at the wrong time. She was home. She was at her home. We're supposed to be in bed. And her her roommate, the other young lady that was killed, had two children that typically were home, five and three years old. I mean, this was a home. This was not a party place. This was two young girls' home that where they lived, where they had kept a very neat and tidy house. You know, it wasn't like this big party place and this place where there was just a bunch of crazy stuff going on, at least not that I know of. Um, but I do know that that was, you know, that was she she was not out somewhere doing something wrong. She was in bed at her house. Wow. Yeah. No, like I mean, you're somewhere you're supposed to be safe, you know. Exactly. Yeah. And the heart, the most heart-wrenching thing about that is there were some things that were going on um that had kind of upset her. And she had called my dad right at midnight, like around midnight. Um, the in our t hometown in Cleveland, there was a place um called the Gondolier. It was a like an Italian restaurant, and there was a payphone there. You know, back then there was no cell phones or anything. Right, right. So she called my dad from a payphone and she was she asked if she could come home and spend the night, and he had left the door unlocked. So he went down and he unlocked the door, and then she never came. So that is heartbreaking too, because she if she had just come, you know, if she had just gone to my dad's house, then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

SPEAKER_04 14:12

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 14:13

So I don't know what made her decide to go, but again, that's her home. That's where she probably felt most comfortable. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 14:19

I mean, there could have been just a last-minute decision, like, oh, I'm just gonna, you know, you don't know what. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, Ken, whenever you're comfortable, what do you remember about that day?

SPEAKER_02 14:33

Um, well, I was getting ready. It was on a s well, I was getting ready on Sunday morning for church. Um, because this the murders occurred in the early morning hours.

SPEAKER_04 14:41

Um that was Valentine's Day, correct?

SPEAKER_02 14:44

Yes, it was. It was Valentine's Day. And I was literally pulling up this, it was like we wore these jumper top dresses back then. And I was literally pulling up the sleeve of that dress, and my dad called. And he was all I I mean, I can't even tell you a word that he said. He was so hysterical. I all I heard was maybe her name. I don't somehow I just knew it was her, but I did I didn't know what had happened. I didn't know, and see, again, we didn't have I don't even know honestly where he called me from. Um, but it wasn't, you know, I don't think I don't think I had a caller ID back then. I can't remember, but I just knew something bad was wrong. And I had to get to my I I felt like it was something with her. And he must have said her name or something. I don't I can't remember any dis like what he said, probably from the trauma. But I just got in the car immediately and she had only lived in that apartment for five weeks. So I didn't know, I didn't have the address to her apartment. It was brand basically brand new apartment. So I just drove to town. I was like, I've just got to find, I've got to find her, I've got to figure out what's going on. I don't know what's going on. And so there was a blockbuster in town and there was a cop sitting there. So I pulled over there and I was like, listen, something's wrong with my sister. I think something bad's happened. I know she lives, you know, in town around this area. And he he was like, I I think I know exactly I told him her name. And um, so he gave me the address and I drove there, and there was my dad and some other family members and the yellow tape and the tons of police, and I can't even tell you. It was just like, it's it's it's unreal unless you live it. Like not knowing, and already at that point, this is kind of frustrating too. It's already at that point there were these horrible rumors, horrible rumors about just awful things happening outside of just them being murdered, like horrible, horrible things. So um, I just gathered my dad, I was like, we can't do anything here, let's just go home. And then we all just kind of gathered at my dad's, and and the saddest thing too is my grandmother, she's deceased now. But how my dad even knew was she heard it on the scanner. She she had heard she heard on the scanner that something had happened at her apartment, and she called my dad, and then my dad went straight over there. Um, so that's how it all started.

SPEAKER_04 17:04

Wow, gosh, that's just absolutely gut-wrenching, you know. It is because I I guess you guys didn't even know what was happening at that moment.

SPEAKER_02 17:12

You just that call and yeah, and then these horrible rum we the rumor was that she was pregnant. Um, all I mean, just that just hor uh things I probably don't need to say on here, but some really bad things. Right. Yeah. Things that yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:27

And unfortunately those rumors usually go pretty fast too.

SPEAKER_04 17:31

They do. Yeah. So what concerns have stayed with you regarding the investigation?

SPEAKER_02 17:38

Well, I think the biggest concern was it was it was a mess. Okay. I don't know. The TBI was involved, the FBI was involved, but nothing like this had ever happened in our small town. Nothing. Like it was the biggest thing that had ever happened. And I don't know if they just didn't know how to handle it. I don't know if it's because, you know, DNA and forensic and forensics were not that advanced either back then. Um, but it was years, like seven years of nothing. So for seven years we had to just live not knowing why this happened, not knowing kind of what happened, like all this time, like there was literally nothing. And then all of a sudden, these arrests are made. And I can even tell you back then, I I was perplexed by it. I was like, this doesn't really, it it never really fully made sense. Um, and then sitting, you know, I even remember looking at this guy like directly in his eyes, like, look at me, you know, why did you do this? Like you killed these innocent people. And um, so sitting throughout that whole trial, uh, and I just remember never feeling like it was the truth because there was not, there was no evidence. Like the evidence that was left at the scene still to this day has not been matched to somebody.

SPEAKER_04 19:00

Really? Wow.

SPEAKER_02 19:01

Yes. So there was lots of evidence there that has never been matched. So, and just trying to run it through my head, like we had to sit through that trial and watch the video of this crime scene. My parents, myself, and talk about being seared in in your brain, like it is seared into my brain.

SPEAKER_05 19:20

Right.

SPEAKER_02 19:21

And just the the way that these kids, because that's I think people forget that too. These are young. My sister was 19. Right. The young man that was killed was, I think he was 18 or 19. The young girl that was shot was 21. And then the mom that um passed away was 25. And I'm like, these were not, you know, they were not hadn't lived like this big long life to made all these people mad. Like, I don't know. There was never a motive that I could figure out. That was always, I think that's the most perplexing thing still to this day, is what would motivate somebody to go in there and and tie two of these people up and then to make my sister get on her hands and knees, somebody that was innocent. Like, why? Why not, you know, leave her upstairs or not? I don't know. It just so many, I mean, there's still so many questions. Exactly. Still so many questions. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_04 20:15

Yeah, that that's horrible. Like just yeah, 20 um what more than 25 years later and just like 27 years, yeah. Gosh, that's uh wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:24

Wow. So over the years, there has been differing opinions. Uh huh. Um, how did your family view that aspect of the case?

SPEAKER_02 20:35

Well, very early on, the police um pitted, I feel like pitted our families against each other, kind of made us think that she was involved. I mean, of course they did. They arrested her. You know, I mean, she was arrested for conspiracy to commit murder and robbery. Right. Although, which this, these are the things like just my logical brain. They said that, and that's what she was arrested for. But literally, you can go read online right now, today, and it says there was no, it didn't look like anything had been burglarized or touched or, you know. So I'm like, how was she arrested for steal or burglary? And they're they're sitting here saying it didn't even appear like anything was taken. That just like that doesn't make sense. Um, that they always kind of made her out to be the villain. And that I think that was the other part of it in my mind that never made sense because I was like, who would shoot themselves or let somebody else shoot them and almost kill them and tie them up? I mean, who would do that to themselves? Like how would she, how would she have done all that, disposed of weapons, and like that part of it just never ever made sense to me, you know? And then very quickly her she was her trial was dropped. It was like a partial hung jury and um she was acquitted. So there was not obviously enough evidence against her, but they always wanted us to believe that narrative. And I think that's why her friends and family are so defensive because they or trying to protect her, obviously, and I understand rightfully so. I mean, she is still living and she still has to live with this whole facts of what happened and the situation. And um but it was very it was very much we were very much made to believe she was heavily involved.

SPEAKER_04 22:17

Mm-hmm. Wow. Gosh and that that's like with these type of investigations, you know, like like how you said like this was the first like in that in your town like anything like this has ever happened. So they you know were just going off of whatever they could. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:32

Gosh. So are there things that you feel were overlooked or misunderstood over the years?

SPEAKER_02 22:39

Well I mean even early on when we got her personal belongings back, first of all, they let the family in the town home way too soon in my opinion. That was one of the biggest things I thought that that was way too soon to trample in there and I still feel like they could have there could have been things that were missed. Well in fact there was because once we got all of her personal belongings home, her pillow had blood on it and they didn't even take that for work. Yeah that's you know we had to call we called the TBI and we were like we found there's blood on her pillowcase and they and then they took it after the fact. But you know that was kind of concerning like why in the world are they not you know taking this evidence.

SPEAKER_05 23:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:19

And then the other thing was just that you have like my sister had on fake nails and they had taken those for evidence for example. And so they have all these things like the ties all of this but none of it has the DNA of any of the people that they have um said that you know committed the crime like none of them like the man that's in jail um and the other guy that we're all none of it matches them. So to me I was like how can you just stop which they haven't stopped supposed you know part of it's a supposedly a cold case which is so bizarre too. Right. It's like you know there are other people out there or this is someone else altogether. Exactly you're not pushing to find this information why why so they found that she has a DNA of someone that's not there is DNA and none of them have been matched to it. No I have a whole box a whole banker's box. That's how I know about for about all this now is because this came about about through just a random TikTok post. And so I was able to get a whole entire banker's box of files from the trial of the man who's in prison currently and so I have all of this information and there's no physical evidence that tied him to this crime.

SPEAKER_04 24:32

Wow so why do they yeah that's not that's not fair to them either you know like no absolutely not why do why are they pinpointing like these certain individuals?

SPEAKER_02 24:43

Is there like a My honest opinion is well I I mean it's an opinion obviously it's just an opinion. Of course but I think because they were drug dealers I mean I think it's just it's more you're going to jail because of your character and what you than that you did this, you know? Yeah. And I think it was a high profile case. Right. It was a high profile case we we needed to get a r an arrest you know yeah sometimes I always felt like that was part of it too. Just so they found their person that they could pinpoint it to because he already had a rap sheet for one thing so why not add this to the wrap sheet exactly yeah and he could be an easy target because the kids were there not it was um the other the young man were there at a party you know that's the whole that's their whole case is on that. But the things people haven't thought about are well he didn't have a GPS or he didn't have a phone or maps or you know he didn't have any of those things to help him get to this apartment a place he had never been and contrary to what everybody thinks and believes these people did not know each other prior to that party. They had never met each other. Uh-huh they didn't know each other.

SPEAKER_04 25:52

That's another reason like why exactly gosh that's crazy. Um so if listeners walked away understanding one thing about this investigation, what would you want it to be?

SPEAKER_02 26:05

Um I think that there's way more to it than we know. And I even think it could be something so sinister that it would blow our minds. That's where I that's where I am right now. I think there is something here that we can't even fathom. That's what I feel. Gosh in my in my gut and in my heart. That's what I feel. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 26:27

Almost as if the law has something to play into it.

SPEAKER_02 26:31

Yeah just some something's not right. I mean well in the whole trial sit in the whole um trial against the other man that was his trial was um overturned or what I don't I don't know all all the terminology exactly so please forgive me if I say it wrong but um and the reason his was completely thrown out was because the judge at the time and the lead detective were communicating with each other. They had over 171 phone calls to each other throughout that trial. So that case was completely thrown out. Oh yeah. So if he had done that he was completely let off never even went to trial because of their misconduct so that's another big piece to this you know there it's like such a it's a complex case it's like webs. There's like all these webs everywhere and there's all these different groups of people that could have potentially had motive but in my opinion there's no motive that has been good enough for me yet. I'm like what really like a fight? How many people have gotten in a fight? Like we all have you know even if he was um you know selling drugs even the amount that he was supposedly dabbling with at that point was that enough to die over like where there has to be a different emotive here that we don't know about there has to be something that we don't know.

SPEAKER_03 27:50

Right. Yeah and for for the communication between a judge and a lead detective to be that much that that to me is just throwing pins in the pots that shouldn't be there.

SPEAKER_02 28:00

It is like why what were they talking about? Exactly and of course you know it was all blown off well they were neighbors and they were they were had the other things outside of the case to talk about but I don't I think you should know better. That was kind of that's a no no.

SPEAKER_04 28:15

Right. No definitely yeah yeah I can see there's definitely something there's something there. Oh and that's that wasn't right for just to be overturned like that. Yeah. The when this happened what time did it do they have an idea like was it in early hours then I guess or in the early morning hours.

SPEAKER_02 28:31

They the uh initially they had set set around like three in the morning. Okay. Um was kind of the initial time frame. I mean by the time the police were called and they came the bodies were cold. Like they were they had been pat deceased for about three hours is the is the estimation. Um so anywhere between like I mean I think she called the called nine one one around seven so I would think somewhere between four three four seven or three or four around in that area. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:00

And that like there was no evidence of like burglary burglary or anything like that.

SPEAKER_02 29:05

It did look like the the back door was pushed you know kind of forced open and she did say initially early on that they did say sheriff's department which they were in the city so it would have been so they said that wrong you know they did say you know sheriff's department but she had said that very early on and she actually said it was three white men very early on. Yeah and that's all in the you know people can read this online I'm not sharing anything that's not public knowledge. So that was one of the things I found in these files um that another detective for the person that's serving the three consecutive life sentences he was like nobody even took that in consideration that she never said that they were people of color like she said they were white in the beginning. Why didn't we look at any of these white people or you know and I I do feel like too a lot of the suspects were very easily just kind of it was kind of brushed off just like yeah okay you didn't do it you know you had a good alibi or whatever the situation was I just don't feel like enough it just didn't feel like to me enough digging was done. Right. And it doesn't I mean I mean And I know they worked on it. I mean I know I feel like they did tirelessly in the beginning. Exactly but it's just weird because there was even a task force put together in 2017 a cold case task force to go back through this information and try to do something again. Nothing nothing ever came of it. And it does it feels that way like when you get into these records it's like you're in a a rabbit hole like you're just like none of this makes sense. It doesn't it doesn't make sense.

SPEAKER_04 30:41

Gosh and that's that's the awful part of this because you're like what I have so many unanswered questions you know yeah yeah do you guys have like or has anyone else had like a suspect in mind or like is it really just random like what I I have no idea.

SPEAKER_02 30:59

I really do not know. I don't I don't know because there's not enough whoever did this is the crazy part. So supposedly and I would think so too it would have to be more than one person.

SPEAKER_04 31:11

Right.

SPEAKER_02 31:12

Because the young man that was killed he was strong and a fighter I mean fighter that's probably why he was bound you know like he was strong. The young woman that survived strong fighter like would not go down without a fight. My sister I can't really see her being that subdued and docile either. I mean just to come down and I mean I guess if you're so scared I don't know you know if you're scared enough maybe you would do that. Um but it's just I'm like there had to be more than one person there. Well we're 27 years out from this. Exactly if there's two or three people there they've at least told one or two people those people have told one or two people someone knows something. Somebody knows something and that's the hardest part I think for me is that they will not tell so I'm like why won't they tell? Right. So there's some kind of loyalty there that has just got them locked down. Yeah just absolutely locked down and they're just not gonna tell no because there's nothing there's nothing that has come of me being on TikTok, Facebook I mean there's just no new leads that I could be like oh man this is going to blow this case wide open.

SPEAKER_04 32:21

Right. Well huh I hope like bringing it up today and putting it like hopefully like some tips or something will start coming.

SPEAKER_02 32:29

That's my hope. And there's lots of stuff that comes in I was gonna mostly rumors oh my my inbox was blown I mean blown up when this first came out but it's all just the same rumors like the same it's just rumors.

SPEAKER_04 32:44

Like nothing nothing that just was like oh man this is it you know unfortunately though like people just make up you know these rum you know and then it gets like the game of telephone you know exactly so they just pass down what whatever they've heard. Exactly so do you have like um do you contact or like have um like contact with the detectives or anything?

SPEAKER_02 33:08

Do you like c talk to them from time to time if they've heard anything or like well I've tried I I've reached out and I did get um some communication back but it's been a few weeks and I, you know they said they would keep me in the loop if anything new came out came about, but I just don't know. I don't know. I mean they I don't know it's an old case. I don't think these kids are important to them.

SPEAKER_04 33:29

And that's not right. Everybody you know that's Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:32

I just that's kind of the feeling that I get like it's just it's old just let it go. I mean we've been told that and I say we because the niece of the um other girl that that died she and I have been talking to each other and um you know we've been both been told even by family members you need to let this go you need to stop. That's just awful like a these are people's lives you know I was you can't that's that's not something that you can just let go of that that even no well I just want to know why why it happened. Exactly you need closure you need closure. Yeah I would like to have closure and I would like to know what you know what was she saying? Was she saying anything as she's stepping over her friend that's laying there you know and her boyfriend's bleeding actively and like what how like why like what was so horrible that you somebody felt like they had to take the lives of these kids like exactly you know what happened and I get it like if somebody had a fit of rage or but it seemed very planned and calculated. I mean you know you don't toss people up if you're just in a fit of rage. But like not only that because you said it really didn't look like there was anything at the scene like did it almost look like they knew um kind like you know and that's another thing like yeah because nothing was in disarray nothing they and they scoured that apartment and not a no drugs at all no alcohol I think one beer bottle or something was there like one but nothing like nothing out of the ordinary just look like a clean neat townhome. Like food in the pantry just and those kids could have been home you know I mean what would have happened if those two kids were home.

SPEAKER_04 35:15

Oh that's awful that yeah you don't know I mean just like with Casey being there it just sounded like they just didn't care who was unfortunately who was there. Who was there yeah gosh.

SPEAKER_02 35:25

Um and then the the the one thing they at least they do have the DNA right so at least that gosh yeah I hope I hope something can come closer and I just hope that that DNA has not been um you know it's been so long and it's so old that it's still enough you know I don't I don't know all the logistics of that kind of thing but you know I'm afraid like they've tested it so many times is it still or do they have a DNA code already and it's just not matched to anybody in the system which would be surprising because if it was drug or gang related I'm sorry but those people have been in jail at some point. Definitely you know that's the other like kind of little thing that kind of goes in my mind. Yeah why why is it not matching because I know you can just I think I think you can just plug those that code into like CODIS and it will pull that up yeah yeah yeah but like I would love for them to do the ancestry of the DNA. A family tree yeah like why why can't you do a family tree?

SPEAKER_03 36:28

Yeah definitely something I mean that's how a lot of cold cases do end up getting solved is from a an ancestry family tree from just going down the line of weeding out the DNA.

SPEAKER_02 36:40

Yeah and that's what I would love for them to do like I want that DNA is really the only way we'll ever know the truth. That's the only way we'll ever know there's nothing else I mean unless somebody just confessed like I can't live with myself anymore you know exactly and somebody did say something on Facebook on a post they were like you know this this person's probably dead in jail or moved away you know and I'm like yeah well they could be I mean they could be but I still if they're dead I still want to know you know it doesn't it doesn't matter if they're dead the fact of what happened yeah definitely you want to know what happened to your sister and that's your right and you deserve that and she deserves that you know like your entire family deserves it. Yeah well and the people that you know they didn't see my dad that was another big thing the way that he suffered after that after she died. I mean this absolute suffering that he and my stepmom went through he would he would go to her grave every single solitary day. And he passed away eight years ago and my stepmom just recently had to move in with my brother and she didn't want to leave her hometown because that's where both of them are buried. And it's just so it never goes away. Like we've they they've never wanted to celebrate Valentine's Day. Like it just it doesn't just change that one day of your life it changes the whole rest of your life. Now it might not affect me daily you know I don't just sit around and think about it all the time now and and until all this came out I didn't even think about the way she was killed anymore. I just kind of reminisced about her. Exactly um but it never like it never goes away. No there's it it doesn't. So for people to say just forget it, just let it go like it didn't happen to your family. Exactly you didn't see your your dad develop autoimmune disease from the stress of sitting for seven years not knowing and then sitting through all those trials and appeals and all of the things that he had to listen to and hear and think about that happened to his daughter. Exactly and yeah like they don't realize that like unfortunately I know Casey lost her life but and the other individuals but they have family they have friends they don't think you know also like they're also you guys are also the ones going through this you know yeah no so what would you want people today to remember most about Casey um I would say her bright smiley face like just her happy disposition and that in under all the things the circumstances everything that she had to go through the you know never really having a typical childhood with even school I mean school was not even typical with her. If if she was in school she was being pushed around on wheelchair you know and in special classes and if she was wasn't in school she was home with the tutor and you know that's hard and so all of that and she still had this big huge smile and bright personality. I think that would be and I mean my husband laugh because we're like every time somebody dies people say oh they'd give you the shirt off their back and they have the biggest light light up a room like we say we're like laugh about it. We're like people say that about everything. They do they do they really do yeah so I mean I'm definitely not saying that but she her smile for sure 100% was the I mean you can look at her in pictures like she was had a very bright very boaster personality from the time she came out of the womb.

SPEAKER_04 40:16

I know the pictures I've seen of her she's very pretty and it is like someone I would feel comfortable going up to like you know definitely absolutely yeah so what does it mean to have her story shared today?

SPEAKER_02 40:31

Oh it's huge. I mean I think because for so long um we've I I know I can't speak for the rest of the family but I know even just speaking to you know the other young lady's niece like I said she was really close to her they were like sisters she actually lived with both of them right before this happened in Cleveland and I think just having it go dormant for so long but then to find out you know oh here we're sharing this it's it's important it means that she does still matter that she's she doesn't have to be forgotten and that maybe possibly through this, you know, that the truth will come out. And I've said that from the beginning it's not for me it's not about justice. At this point you've lived 27 years of your life with this guilt if you felt guilty it's not even about that for me anymore. It's just it's you just want the truth and I can't explain that to anybody unless you've experienced it yourself.

SPEAKER_03 41:29

Right.

SPEAKER_02 41:30

You want to know because for I mean days weeks probably after it happened I would have the same exact recurring dreams over and over and over envisioning her fear like I could feel her fear like how she had to have felt this way. You know for so long I mean I couldn't sleep I couldn't I was so scared like just so full of fear. So just to know like it would even give me peace to know okay somebody's motive was they were mad and jealous and they just wanted to scare them and this was it started off kind of as an accident and the gun just accidentally went off and then this or just like for me to be like okay like I I forgive you like I can see where that could happen and it's not or to know you know no I was a this horrible person and just went in there and I didn't care about them. You know I just that I just want to know the truth. That's all I want is just to know the truth. That's it.

SPEAKER_04 42:28

Exactly. And I mean you have every right to like you know like your other family members their family members yeah I hope something comes out of this. But I'd love for my stepmom to know.

SPEAKER_02 42:38

My dad didn't get to know you know he passed away but I would love for to be able to say we know now and for the name that's in jail if he genuinely did not do this which I have high pro I mean in my mind I'm like there's a probability he did not it he deserves to be in jail. No I mean it's that's his life you know that's yeah it's also his life that's getting yeah but it's like he doesn't matter either these people these these kids and these the people involved it seems like they're very like throwaway just and I think to myself you know this happened right beside a big college there in Cleveland Lee Call Lee College. It's Lee University now back then it was Lee College but um I'm like if this was three college kids you know that were going to school and being responsible and they weren't dabbling into drugs would would this look this way? Exactly would the three of us be having this conversation. Exactly exactly those are important questions too so what do you think Casey would be doing today if she was still here well I think she would have like I said a lot of kids I hope that she would be living a good good life and this is this is the hope that I have it's it's really interesting because she calls Me on Wednesday, the Wednesday before she died. And she asked me, and it kind of even shocked me because she and I had kind of grown. I lived a away and then she kind of moved out and we just grew apart, you know. We didn't talk as much because we weren't in the home together. And um, so she called me on Wednesday night and I was like, What are you doing? I was kind of surprised by her phone call. And she said, Oh, I just wanted to talk to you. And you were just talking, just kind of chit-chatting. And she said, I wanted to ask you something. And I was like, Yeah. And she said, Do you think dad would let me move back home? And I was like, Yes, of course. And I, you know, I said, why? And she goes, I don't know. I'm just kind of struggling with some things. She said, but I don't want to leave. I don't really want to say her name, but the other young lady said, I don't want to leave her high and dry because I help with the kids when she works. She babysat. And she said, but I could just tell something was bothering her. So this other thing I wonder if there was something going on that she knew about that she was scared of.

SPEAKER_04 44:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:57

Um, because she did act that way. She acted scared. And I was like, of course. And so then she was talking about her and her, she was dating, I don't know if you knew this part or not, the guy that died. They were in a very, they had just been in a relationship, not not long at all. And um, but she was having some problems with him, like being flirty with other girls. And I was like, well, if he really cares about you, you have him bring you. I said, have him bring you to church Sunday for Valentine's Day. It's Valentine's Day.

SPEAKER_05 45:25

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_02 45:25

And I said, if he really cares, you know, he will. And she goes, okay, I will, I will, I'll do it. And and that's what's heartbreaking too, because we found her Valentine's that he had gotten her. He had gotten her all these tons of balloons and bear, uh teddy bear and all this stuff. And my parents kept that forever. I mean, forever, years and years and years it stayed in our house, her Valentine's from him. Um, but that and that I kind of wonder if she went home, maybe she talked to him on the phone and he was like, I'm sorry. Because she was mad at him. That was the other thing. She was upset because that night, Valentine's night, he was going to a party. Not the party that everybody thinks it was another party. And um, she had wanted to spend Valentine's with him. So she was that's kind of what she was upset about, and that was the conversation we had. Um, so I do think she wasn't, she never did drugs. She was not into that scene. So my hope is that she was going to get not that that was not comfortable for her, and she was not go down that path and she was gonna have a normal life and have a hopefully a good husband and kids and all the things. But um, I talked to one of her childhood friends because through this, she reached out and she said, you know, all of our whole group, including myself, got really bad into drugs after that. She said, All of us. And she said, I wonder sometimes if she was saved from that lifestyle.

SPEAKER_05 46:48

Right.

SPEAKER_02 46:49

And so sometimes, you know, I think that I'm like, I don't, I I would hope that she was going in the right direction. My heart tells me that she was, um, especially because of that phone call and the fact that she wanted to come to my dad's that night. Yeah. She didn't want to be there where the party was. That's not what she wanted. So that was just not her, yeah. No, I don't think it was. I just don't. I'm not saying she was perfect. I'm not. I'm not saying she was perfect, but I really am my that's my hope is that she was gonna have, you know, what she had always dreamed of and and see her nieces and nephews, you know, she would have loved our kids. Exactly. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 47:26

Oh I know it's just like you think too, like with that phone call, and then like with her the phone call that night or whatever, you're like, if she knew something, you know, that she wasn't telling.

SPEAKER_02 47:37

Something was making her uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_04 47:39

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 47:40

A hundred percent. It was.

SPEAKER_04 47:41

Gosh. Well, I just hope, you know, with this the evidence they the DNA they apparently have or whatever, I hope, you know, bringing her story back out, it can, you know, push it out. And hopefully, I I hope you guys can get closure on this. That would be I hope so too.

SPEAKER_02 47:54

I hope so too. I'll keep you posted.

SPEAKER_04 47:56

Oh, yes, please. Please I follow you. So definitely. Okay, okay. But um, I think we have one more question for you and then we'll just go to our closing. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 48:07

So if there was one thing you could say directly to Casey today, what would it be? If you're comfortable. If you're comfortable.

SPEAKER_01 48:17

Yeah, that's hard. I know. That's really hard. I would love to know who you would be today. I would love for you to still be here for our birthday. I would love to see you be a gosh, in your 40s and meet your babies and know that your great nephew has your red hair. Like I mean, it's just there's a lot that you are loved and you are missed and that you are important and that you're worth it. You're worth it.

SPEAKER_04 48:49

You're worth it. Absolutely. Aw, yeah, her life mattered. And I mean, that's amazing. You're being an amazing, you know, older sister, you know, for you know, fighting for her, for fighting for this. That's amazing. That's amazing. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 49:05

So before we wrap up, I just want to say how much I appreciate you sharing everything that you did, all these memories, everything about Casey. We loved hearing about her, how she was, what her personality was. Um, it's clear how deeply she was loved. Um, and I think our listeners are gonna walk away feeling like they've gotten to know her as a person just from what you've told us. And not just heard as a case. Yeah, not at all. Nope.

SPEAKER_04 49:35

And I think that's what makes today um so important. You know, over time cases can become headlines, investigations, um, court documents. But at the center of it, there's a real person and their life mattered. Um, so being able to hear directly from you, you know, who knew Casey, who loved her, um, that adds a perspective that, you know, no article, report, or case file could ever ever do. So thank you.

SPEAKER_03 49:58

Thank you so much. Yeah. When people hear Casey's name after this episode, my hope, actually our hope, is that they don't just remember what happened to her, that they remember who she was, that she was a daughter, a sister, a friend, um, a young woman who was loved deeply and whose story still matters and will always matter. Um we're honored of so much that you trusted us to help share this. Uh to keep her name out there and to, you know, hopefully find what we can find. Thank you so much, ladies.