Mary Quintana, Scott Johnstone (Brock University, ON)

Mary Quintana and Scott Johnstone from Brock University share how they’re tackling complex campus infrastructure challenges through collaboration and innovation. Facing aging facilities, sustainability goals, and constrained budgets, their team has explored solutions like district energy systems and creative financing models. In this episode, they discuss how leadership, alignment, and practical thinking can turn long-term infrastructure challenges into achievable outcomes.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Hello, and welcome to Telling Your Asset Management Story. Today, we're speaking with Mary Quintana and Scott Johnstone from Brock University, where they're helping lead major infrastructure initiatives across campus. Universities today face the challenge of balancing aging facilities, sustainability goals, and limited capital budgets. At Brock, Mary and Scott have focused on finding creative solutions, including district energy systems and innovative financing approaches to move projects forward. In this episode, we'll talk about turning complex challenges into practical solutions, how leadership teams can bring people together around long-term infrastructure goals.

SPEAKER_03 0:42

Mary, Scott, thanks so much for joining us on Telling Your Asset Management Story. As one of Roth IM's first customers dating back to when we started the company, I'm really excited to share both the Brock University story with our audience as well as each of your individual stories.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

Thank you for having us.

unknown 1:02

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:03

Awesome. So we always start with uh folks' personal journeys because I always am fascinated by the different ways that people find themselves in facility and asset management. And I know, Scott, you've just recently kind of gone even beyond the facility side at Brock. So let's start with each of your personal journeys. How did you get from where you were? Were you a four or five-year-old at home going, I want to be in facilities? Or how did that how did that journey transcend over your career? So, Mary, why don't we start with you and then I'll throw it over to you, Scott?

SPEAKER_00 1:36

Sure. Well, my journey to facilities was not straightforward. It took some iterations. Um, I started uh, well, when I was five, I wanted to be a marine biologist, so nowhere near. Um, but then I decided to go into engineering. Um, I did mostly work around biomedical engineering for early cancer detection. Then I switched gears. Um, I had um interest to go into consulting. So after studying a master's, I went into consulting. I liked it, um, but it was not fulfilling, it was not what I was looking for. So then I kept looking and I studied another master's, this time in Canada in sustainability. And that's really where I found my passion because not only the topic itself, but also because it allowed me to use my engineering background and tie it into something more meaningful that I really related to. And that combination is what opened the doors for me in facilities. Um, when I started working at Western doing carbon and energy projects, because it really allowed me. So that was my avenue into facilities, and I know it's not the same for everyone, but for me that was the avenue for facilities. And then from there, I kept getting more and more responsibilities, getting involved in construction projects, in operations, the power plant, um, many other areas. And then when I came to Brock, then I got even more into the asset management portion of it. So I've been um more of an iterations, just increasingly uh learning more and more about facilities. And the more I I get exposed to it, the more I like it.

SPEAKER_03 3:12

Excellent. And at Western, I think, is actually where we first met before you had before you came to Brock. And I didn't even realize it until after we had kind of re-engaged at Brock. So uh yeah, it's interesting to go from the consulting side and then go over to the light side, as everyone on the institutional side says. So um, Scott, how about yourself?

SPEAKER_02 3:34

Yeah, interesting question. Going back, um, I grew up on a farm on the east coast of Canada. Uh, we've been farming the same property, our family since 1802, uh, traced it back to. So a long time on that land. And you know, farming kind of gives you that perspective of taking assets and uh ensuring that they go well beyond their useful life uh because you can't afford it otherwise. Um but I had many different ideas for what I wanted to do for a living, um, including being a medical doctor. Um, and that was where I applied and actually was going to go to Dalhousie, but switched in the 11th hour to electrical engineering. Um, so did uh background as an electrical engineering. First job out of the gate was with Westinghouse and Central Engineering in Hamilton, uh, followed by they were uh bought out by Siemens Canada. So worked as a field engineer for Siemens Canada on many different projects, uh, polman paper, oil and gas, uh cold rolled steel. So had a chance to be in over several hundred factories across Canada and the US, uh, a wide range of experience. With that, of course, came a lot of travel. Um, so traveling over North America and uh yeah, posting came up a long time ago at Brock University for electrical manager, and that's where I thought, oh, that's close to home. It's only uh 20 minutes away. And so I applied, and uh the rest of that is is history, and that's how I ended up with the university.

SPEAKER_03 4:54

Excellent. Can you talk a little bit about your journey at uh Brock and now, Scott, your new role, because you've kind of moved beyond just facilities, and I think that's a really interesting uh kind of evolution and transition to go to go through as well, as I'm sure you, as I'm sure you've experienced.

SPEAKER_02 5:10

Yeah, the that's what's great about the higher ed sector. You have a lot of opportunities in the higher ed sector of where you want to go based on your background. Obviously, I'm not gonna be teaching, but uh but some do choose to do that as well. So I started off uh as electrical manager uh in the Department of Facilities Management, and uh I'm on my seventh role here at Brock now. Um so I went from that a little bit of background to we built a bioscience research complex, about $200 million research-intensive facility with high containment laboratories, uh, Phytotron, animal vivarium, and such. Um so that was a great experience as well to shift to that to that role, uh then back to facilities as director of operation and maintenance uh for our power plant, uh, all of our maintenance and trades. After that, I went into the role of associate vice president, facilities management, looking after the whole portfolio of traditional facilities. Uh, and then expanded a little bit during COVID. I had a role as senior associate vice president, um, and there I looked after the emergency operations center through COVID, uh, directing all of that as well as a day-to-day operation uh of facilities management and expanded further into campus safety and security and and other areas like that. And then just over a year ago now, um covering the vice president administration and services role. So the VP admin and services covers facilities management, of course, traditionally, but it covers our ancillary services portfolio, uh, looking at residence, parking, uh, campus store, those areas. Uh, it covers ITS and all the functions of uh IT uh from delivering day-to-day Wi-Fi, running servers, uh, desktops, as well as all of our online uh support items as well through that through that department. Also uh includes internal, external audit, uh, including this safety and security, uh includes the Office of People and Culture with traditional HR functions uh across the portfolio as well for all areas, and looks after you know the majority of the operating budget uh for the institution as it relates to to operations. And yeah, that's that's the portfolio in a nutshell.

SPEAKER_03 7:18

Wow, there's a lot there. And I mean you're you're lucky to have have Mary now in the AVP role, right, from a facilities perspective. So uh to help to help uh keep the facilities portfolio going. So what a what a great what great stories that you guys have and to go from you know both inside instant inside higher ed in the time beforehand, kind of evolving and changing careers without changing companies is such a great, it's such a great opportunity. So um, so let's let's talk a little bit about Brock and and your your campus, your portfolio. Scott, why don't you start and then Mary, feel free to feel free to jump in and just tell our audience a little bit about um Brock University.

SPEAKER_02 7:57

Yeah, Brock University, amazing campus. We're one of few universities that's actually considered in a UNESCO Biosphere Reserve. We're right on the edge of the Niagara Escarpment. Uh the Bruce Trail, which is a 900-kilometer trail, uh, runs right through the middle of our campus. We have roughly 400 acres. We have about 3 million uh gross square feet in space. Uh we operate our own uh district energy system and power plant, delivering heating, cooling, and power to the entire campus, and about 15 uh high voltage substations and about 40 buildings across campus. Student population is just under 20,000. Uh staff, roughly around 4,000. So we're like a small city here in the edge of St. Catharines. We crossed two different cities, uh St. Catharines and Thorold uh properties. So in the Niagara region, so those uh complexities as well. Um yeah, that's that's kind of Brock in a nutshell from size perspective.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

Mary, anything to add? I would add um that Brock is a dynamic organization, even within the sector. You look at some of the older, larger institutions, and you can feel the difference in the culture. Uh Brock is smaller, but we are more dynamic, we are um more organic also in the structure and how we operate. And that does allow for different opportunities that have um that have been amazing to be able to be part of because we can respond to changes better. If you think of um from my past life from Western, think of it as a big elephant. It's big and powerful, lots of resources, right? But then when you're trying to then change directions to adapt to an ever-changing environment, it takes a long time for the elephant to stop and to then change directions. Brock is more of a gasel. Uh we can switch and change directions and stop and keep running again. So I think that's one of the biggest strengths that Brock has, that being in that culture does enable our leadership and ourselves to do more with less.

SPEAKER_03 9:58

That's great. Well, and and I mean, you guys, as you both know, right, you guys have always been uh one of our sounding boards for new ideas and pilot pilot sites for, hey, we think that this is something that could add value. And it's because of that, that nimbleness, that flexibility, that ability to adapt and adjust that that is has led to a lot of our collaborations over the years. So I I've seen that myself. Um my favorite two stories to tell about Brock to other institutions is first that um when facilities folk, because oftentimes on campuses, facilities folks kind of get moved around a lot or they never know where they're gonna be. And I say, well, look, I have one customer and they put them on the side of a hill. So at least you're not on the side of a hill. Um, because for for those that don't know, the central the central plant Scott mentioned is on the escarpment. So it's down, what is it, probably 40 feet?

SPEAKER_02 10:46

350 foot drop. Yes. The edge of the escarpment. And the uh the central utilities building is about 40 feet lower, I guess, than than the uh the other buildings.

SPEAKER_03 10:56

But the other, the other great story, which is sort of why the the the utilities building is is down, is the tunnel system and the the bike museum that you guys used to have in the tunnels, uh, where maintenance staff would bring in their old bicycles and then they would use the bicycles to to to to go across the tunnels. I think that's stopped now, but it was I remember the first time I went in, it was like a it was literally like going back in time, 30 or 40 years of of bicycle design and history. It was pretty it was a pretty neat uh neat experience. So not really related to portfolio, but just a couple of really interesting facts about Brock from from my perspective.

SPEAKER_02 11:30

Yeah, a few extra facts, you can add them or not, delete them later. But uh unique that Brock uh when started in 1964 on the edge here of the Niagara Scarment, there was no natural gas. It was a 100% electric campus up until 1984, uh, when a natural gas line came from the region's head office uh across the street from us, and we added our first boiler. And that's what actually led into our power plant in 1990, is that in the 80s when the cost of electricity was going up significantly and natural gas was cheap, instead of putting in standard natural gas boilers, we decided to go with reciprocating natural gas engines. The engines acted as boilers and producing heat, but a byproduct of the engine was electricity. And so the campus used the electricity uh in heat load following mode. We also use that heat um to produce cooling through a lithium bromide absorption chiller, and so in the summer you're producing heat to make cooling and a byproduct of electricity. And of course, there's a lot of changes with that over the last decade, um, which we won't go into here, but so some additional facts as well.

SPEAKER_03 12:35

No, that's awesome. I appreciate I appreciate uh appreciate that you guys sharing. So um let's let's turn our attention now to kind of today. And uh, you know, what what would you guys say are the top three asset management challenges that you and your team are currently facing, and what strategies are you using to kind of tackle or address them? Mary, why don't you start and Scott, feel free to jump in and back and forth.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

Um certainly the the restrictions we have in capital, it's one of the biggest challenges because we have a pervasive situation where we have increasing needs and decreasing resources. So that gap just keeps widening and widening more and more. So we do have to think differently. And again, going back to before, we are in a better situation than other institutions because of our um culture to maybe look at different and more innovative solutions. But it doesn't mean that the challenge is any easier to solve because it is a significant amount of deferred um capital renewal and maintenance that we have to tackle.

SPEAKER_03 13:42

So you get a gold star for that, Mary. Thank you so much for sending us more.

SPEAKER_00 13:47

Uh someone that we know had me made um fill a book, making sure that I get it right, just kidding. Um I got a shirt instead. Um, yeah, so it's it's certainly a challenge, and it's one that it's not going to go away easily.

SPEAKER_02 14:03

I I would say, Bill, um, from our perspective, just take hot the higher ed sector in general and and where we are. You know, you can say Brock University, you can say another university in Ontario, you can say another university in Canada or the US. The rising cost and the rising portfolio backlog in DCRM is getting to a point, if we take Brock for an example, 10 years ago, we were at 110 million of DCRM. Today, we sit at 385 million in DCRM. If we project that out 10 years using your software and some of these rules, we're actually projecting about $850 million in DCRM by 2035. That actually creates what we're calling, and I think you guys use the same terminology, is a point of no return, in the sense of if we have $850 million in DCRM, an annual operating budget of $350 million, of which in higher ed, probably similar to other institutions, we're 85% salaries and benefits. Um, so you're looking at that ratio, it is it is a significant challenge. And so, with that significant challenge, what can we do today immediately to start addressing that long-term liability? We know that if we invested 100 million 10 years ago, the majority of our DCRM would have been taken care of, getting back to the present value of money, right? And where that's going in the future. So I think for us, the number one uh challenge is the rising, you know, those rising costs, inflationary costs, uh just cost of doing things in general, labor costs, creates a this dangerous point of no return. So we actually the pressure is on to find solutions today for that. And then of course we get into the challenge, uh, what I would call challenge number two for higher ed is capital allocation, competing capital allocation. So here you have challenges where the sector in general uh is crunching, and Ontario specifically, we've had a tuition period for 10 years after a 10% reduction in tuition. Luckily, there's been no inflation in the last 10 years. Oh, it has been unprecedented. So you can see what that does to the operating budget, and the capital allocation in the operating budget gets shrunk to try to balance a budget in year. And when you shrink that capital budget, now you're left with uh high competing items. Uh and then I think into my third, I think the third biggest challenge for us in facilities with this capital allocation is changing priorities. You know, with with that limited resources, it depends on what's on fire that day. Can be your number one challenge to take that small amount of capital and focus on it. For us, for example, you know, roofs were a were a big thing for us over the last decade. We're investing 1.5 million a year in roof replacements to try to catch up on that that impact on infrastructure, impact on the structure, gold, air quality, all of those things. And of course, we're shifting to things like few modes, compliance with few modes and labs that are now 40 years old. But all of a sudden, at the same time, we had an issue in September where our A V resources in our classrooms, and the number one thing we're here for is teaching students and learning. And you have uh just coming to a head a whole bunch of things failing at the same time, and we're having to shift that capital resource from you know, potentially, let's say, the lab compliance over to A V. And that's just a little micro example of the big picture of this future 865 million.

SPEAKER_03 17:38

Absolutely. Well, that that that ever shifting competition for capital, as we've always we've often called it in the past, it it it becomes it almost is like whack-a-mole sometimes, right? It's just it's just what you know, boom, boom, boom. It it keeps shifting around. How much were you guys impacted at Brock by the international student uh reductions, if we say, from the from the the government?

SPEAKER_02 18:01

It did have an impact on us, but luckily, good or bad, uh our percentage of international students is fairly low compared to the sector. Um was not significantly aggressive in that area. So, yes, it definitely did affect our operating budget on top of all the other constraints in the operating budget to make it even more difficult. But luckily for us, compared to some institutions, there's an institution out east that has 73% international students. That that makes it's a massive impact on operations.

SPEAKER_03 18:32

Absolutely. Yeah, even some of the colleges in Ontario had some some big time exposure. So um, you know, I I it at least at least on the on the plus side, the impact was a little bit smaller than some of those, I suppose. But again, just another, just another thing to, you know, another plate to spin and and that sort of thing. So interesting. Uh Mary, anything to add to anything Scott said from the challenges perspective?

SPEAKER_00 18:54

Uh no, no, I think he he hit the nail on the head. Um, and especially in these times where, again, everything is changing. Change is a new the new norm. So you you consider that and how now we have to adapt our facilities for new requirements, for new legislation on top of everything that Scott mentioned. So it just gives you a good sense of what uh what a massive undertaking we have in front of us.

SPEAKER_03 19:20

Well, it's interesting. I always say, right, from a from a facilities perspective, the folks that the folks that change the regulations are often the same folks, when you roll it up, that write the checks. But they change the regulation, but they don't write the check to allow for compliance with the new regulation, which is only making things things just uh worse.

SPEAKER_02 19:42

Just building on that, Bill, what we we see also in higher ed and specifically at Brock and other Ontario universities is where we've had to do year-over-year budget operating budget reductions. So if you take an operating budget that was 100% full, you've done year-over-year cuts, now it's let's say 50% of what it used to be, then that capital reduction that we saw, it's actually a kind of like a double whammy. I don't know a better uh explanation for that, where the rising costs of regulatory compliance costs in our operating budget have continually increased significantly. Uh, your elevators, your fire alarm, your sprinkler system, all of those things. So now your operating budget, which has been cut in half, has a fixed cost component that has doubled. Now your operating budget is only handling regulatory compliance to keep the doors open and the lights on, you know, legally and in compliance. And you have no operating dollars left to do any repairs and maintenance. So we're turning into capital again, capitalizing all of these repairs and maintenance in a shrinking capital budget, only compounding the issue.

SPEAKER_03 20:50

Well, and and the inability to do preventative maintenance in order to extend the life of those elements, which could in over time uh uh you know uh alleviate some of the capital, uh the deferred capital renewal need over time. It it's so far down the list because as you say, you you barely get beyond the the stuff that is the the line between, you know, regulation is kind of the line between legal and illegal, right? You gotta you gotta get across that line.

SPEAKER_02 21:15

So uh compliance and non-compliance. I don't know. I know.

SPEAKER_03 21:20

No, no, but it's it's what uh people always say, right, when we talk about building code. I'm like, well, building code is one step above illegal. And so that doesn't necessarily it shouldn't, it shouldn't necessarily be the it's sort of the minimum standard, not the maximum standard. But in a situation like that, with the limited dollars, you need to, you you know, that's that's that's as far as some folks can often go. So excellent. So um kind of turning our attention to the future, the next five years, the next 10 years, um, how do you guys see facility and asset management evolving? What will you know, what will stay the same, what will be different when you when we look out. The next decade or so. What are your thoughts? At Brock and just in general?

SPEAKER_00 22:05

I would say, um, and it's going to sound very used, but it's true, especially with asset management, AI, it's going to be uh a big part of it because when you're looking at the number of, even at Brock, the number of elements and points that we are tracking, uh, it's pages and pages. So AI will have a massive role in helping us to identify outliers, into prioritize things, into creating reports, analyzing all of those large data sets that we have already in SLAM and softwares of the sort, where we will be able to use AI so that we can then make better decisions. We can then find information faster instead of sorting through pages and pages of elements and which ones are we going to pick. Uh, help us find synergies into which elements we may want to tackle together to make the most out of this investment. All of those things that AI will enable, I think we're going to start seeing more and more in the next um 10 years. And that's going to have an impact on facilities because it will also inform how are we investing things, how are we um making those repairs, prioritizing um some of the work that we're doing, because maybe we can get an insight on if you don't fix this unit, then that's going to create all of this cascade of issues, and that's going to be baked into um all of those matrices for making decisions on the asset management side.

SPEAKER_03 23:27

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 23:29

Scott, what do we do? I would say um just talking about what we were saying before about the future cost and looking at future costs. We've taken a different approach over the last year, Mary and I, working with our finance team and working on some creative ways to talk to our board of trustees, to talk to our Senate and exec about this future liability and what we're doing about it today. Again, 10 years ago, we've been investing 6 million a year in DCRM, um, but that has taken us from 100 to 385, as I mentioned. Investing 6 million a year, continuing to 2035, is gonna take us to 850 million. Um, that's an issue. So, what can we do today? So, what we've done and with using our finance team and some external consultants is looked at what would a hundred million today investment impact, how would that impact 2035? And the rough calculations we come out with a project that we put together is about 240 million um off of the dollars of in 2035. So we've actually put together a project, and luckily we've grouped a few things together. Instead of just looking at the facility condition itself, uh, the DCRM, we've also looked at carbon, monetizing carbon and the cost of carbon, as well as impact operations on the institution from a risk perspective. So taking three different things and putting them in one bucket. So we've put them all in one bucket, but we've put a project together that's a hundred million dollars, uh, a little bit over a hundred million dollars. We've partnered with the Canadian Infrastructure Bank for their low interest um funding through uh the carbon levy. It's a 2% interest rate available to us when we're doing a greater than a 50% reduction in carbon. So with this project, we packaged together that we're going to reduce the university's carbon footprint by almost 80% in a three-year project. And so we're checking a few boxes there. We're getting low interest funds, but we're tackling core DCRM items that do not have a payback. When you take these things in isolation, your HVAC replacement in this whole building, uh, even your fume hood replacement and labs, the costs of the infrastructure and the payback is like trying to do a payback on a roof, right? You're really looking at a risk assessment here, not on a business case. And so with that, we were able to take three problems, three independent challenges, roll them into one, um, spend, uh, we're gonna spend over the next three years $100 million, of which is borrowed, but again at low interest uh with CIB, and move forward with reducing our DCM in 10 years by almost 250 million. Um just a just a different approach. Not everybody's able to do that, but you do want to have a look at what the cost is today, and the longer you delay that, the impact down the road.

SPEAKER_03 26:16

That's a great point because I mean a lot of a lot of um a lot of facility folks, because there's so many, like we said, moles to whack in the current day, it's it's looking at, okay, what do we have to do this year? What do we have to do next year? But looking at the future cost of money is a huge, is a is a massive way to shift the thinking and and the the ability to or the opportunity to say, look, we have these three issues, how do we bring them together and solve them in a collective way where you know the solution to one issue and plus the other issue plus the third issue can hopefully result in, you know, one, you know, one plus one plus one equals 45, because there's synergies between it, and and too often things are dealt with in silos or isolation, and oh, we've got a carbon reduction program over here, our deferred capital renewal over here, our OM over here, um, even our program in space uh considerations. But but bringing that all together, I think it does create tremendous opportunity for those synergies, for those those cost savings, and as you said, the compound, the compound uh uh effects. So it sounds like a super exciting uh project on campus. It's gonna be a busy place for the next uh next number of years.

SPEAKER_02 27:26

It is, it's core infrastructure in our five oldest assets. Um it's uh Mary and I refer to it as open heart surgery, right? When you're in those. So open heart surgery is very disruptive among the buttons. Um and that's what we're gonna be into over the next three years. But the benefits are are significant at this time.

SPEAKER_03 27:44

Absolutely. Well, and and bringing that curve way down too. Um, with uh, and and what a what a what what great foresight to look to tap into the CIB for something like that, because I mean that's a big reason why it was created, right?

SPEAKER_02 27:57

So yeah, and limited time funds, right? So it'll be the right time at the right place uh to make those make those connections.

SPEAKER_03 28:04

Awesome. Uh Mary, one one final question for you. Um facilities management, let's be honest, is still a pretty male-dominated field. And uh, although it's gotten better compared to, you know, when I started in the in the sector going to Apple conferences and other things like that, there's far more diversity than there used to be 10 or 15 years ago. But if you were to if you were to look to give some advice or some thoughts or some insights to to a young woman who is considering uh making a career in uh facility uh or infrastructure asset management, what advice would you have for them?

SPEAKER_00 28:39

I I would say um it's not straightforward, depending on which areas of facilities you're working at and which location you're working at. You might find it's more, there might be more women, there might not be, but you you're absolutely right. Regardless of which area it might be more male-dominated or just somewhat male dominated. So um you're absolutely right. Now, that said, um, I would say just do your best, work hard, and let your results speak for themselves. Because when you're talking about results, you're bringing it back to the facts. And it's very difficult to argue about oh, she's a woman, she's a man, uh it's a man. It's about results. And you can work uh without any gender basis when you're talking about results. So my advice would be always focus on delivering good results, and that's the best way to not only enter um the facilities or the asset management uh areas, but also to stay in there and to grow in your career. It's all about results, and that's um it becomes very difficult to argue about oh, these women, um, if you make a mistake, sometimes companies think, oh, it's not Mary that made a mistake, it's women know nothing. Um so if you prove with good results um your capability, you're proving the whole of women's capabilities too. And uh the other um advice I would give is just network with other women. Many women have already experienced what you have experienced, and they have uh great experience, great insights to how to go around that specific situation. They have great knowledge to share, they can become your mentors, and that's the way that we we try to do that. I work with great women in the past, I work with great women now that I try to learn, and also I try to empower and to help the women that are working with me now to also help them um have successful careers to deliver those results I mentioned before, because now I am part of that and I want to be able to be that for them too.

SPEAKER_03 30:39

It's interesting the idea of when you are representing yourself, you're also representing women in general in in the business place. That's a that's a tremendous amount of responsibility to bear. But I I think the idea of you know, results speak for themselves. And I think honestly, I think that advice of focus on results is good for any young person starting any career in any sector. It's it's you know, you're absolutely right. I think that's that's that's amazing. Um, but but obviously the the the responsibility of of uh yourself and other women in the facilities management just has that additional burden beyond just personal success. That's that's uh it it's it's I'm glad you pointed that responsibility out because I think it's important for folks to to realize that as well. And and the idea of mentorship, I think is is brilliant because, and again, mentorship I think goes beyond any individual at any point in their in their career. But certainly, you know, your work to be mentored by and mentor uh younger women is just gonna hopefully help that, you know, again, the next generation be even more diverse and even, you know, when I started, I used to be a young white guy, and I'd walk in a room and go, boy, there's a lot of old white guys in this room, and now I'm an old white guy, and there's a bit more diversity, but it would be great when there's when when you know when it is truly a diverse workforce, because I think that those ideas, those perspectives, that experience will benefit the sector as a whole. So thank you for sharing uh the ideas. Scott, anything that you would share with younger folks um kind of looking to get into a career in in facilities?

SPEAKER_02 32:10

That's that's a tough one. Um, you know, do your best. It it's interesting, facilities just from my own career past, that you you think you're gonna be doing one thing when you go to college and university. Um, the opportunities in facilities are vast. You know, the different portfolios, uh, the different interaction, it's always great to be in higher ed. You learn a whole bunch of things, uh, constantly learning. So I would say, you know, uh keep your options open. Don't be focused on one area specifically. Um, a whole lot of opportunities.

SPEAKER_03 32:39

Absolutely. No, that's great. That's especially great advice going forward because everything in the world, and Mary, you talked about AI, right? Facilities is gonna change dramatically over the next five to 10 years. So being flexible, being a lifelong learner, having that beginner's mindset, I think is gonna be important for everybody in in probably every uh profession, but definitely uh for sure in facilities. So that's a that's a great uh that's great advice as well.

SPEAKER_02 33:04

Don't be afraid to take risks. Um, one of the things I did in my career was leave of the electrical sector uh as electrical manager and go over to project management commission, a $200 million research building, of which I had no background in. Uh so doing the biocontainment uh training, uh all of those different facets, uh, step out of your comfort zone, expand your skills, and you never know where that opportunity will take you. Absolutely. Great advice.

SPEAKER_03 33:29

Uh thanks so much, guys. Any last thoughts to share with our audience before we wrap up?

SPEAKER_00 33:37

I would say that it's also important. It it's you're having a great team is super important. But also when you expand that definition of team, you have to be very careful and selective on the team that you build with partners and interest holders outside of FM. You need to work with them, and it's great, um, uh great opportunities for everyone when you're working together, but you have to be careful with the partners you select and uh you want to listen to them, but at the same time, you don't want to just do whatever they say. So just to to think more about collaboration and having successful partnerships inside facilities management and outside, it's very important.

SPEAKER_02 34:16

Bill, I would say one thing, a piece of advice I would give, and it seems like common sense, but you know, common sense these days. Um a mentor taught me early in my career is is bring your boss a solution. And what I see time and time again in our sector, and I'm surprised by my colleagues, is bringing their board of trustees, bringing their executive, bringing their board of governors, the sky is falling reports. The sky is falling reports do not help them make decisions. Let's bring solutions. We know in some cases the sky is falling in certain areas. How can we package that up with actual solutions and a plan, whether it's a one-year plan or a 10-year plan, options on you know, funding, uh prioritizing those items, just do not bring the sky's falling reports. And I am surprised constantly in the sector when I see some other reports that go in just asking for more money.

SPEAKER_03 35:06

It it's interesting. I was at the I was at the higher ed facilities forum uh earlier this week, and there were folks, senior execs from facilities that that were saying, look, our boards won't even listen to our deferred capital renewal and maintenance conversation where they're so sick of it, they're just they're ignoring it. And it's because, you know, chicken little and the sky is falling, right? And they just they just don't want to hear it anymore. And unfortunately, you know, as you said, right, we we can't put our head in the sand any longer, but it feels like some organizations are, and I think you're absolutely right. It's because these, you know, when the sky is falling, well, what do you do? You just you know, you go home and bring some solutions. Wait for it to happen. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:43

Bring solutions, bring ideas. They may not be approved, but you have to start somewhere.

SPEAKER_03 35:48

Absolutely. Well, and Mary, as one of what I hope are your your valued partners, uh, as you as you work through, we're really uh happy to have had the opportunity to work with you and very happy, Scott and Mary, that you joined us today. Thank you so much for sharing these great insights. I know our audience is gonna learn a lot, and uh personally, thank you very much. And from the audience, thank you as well. Thank you.