I Looked Around at 30 and Asked, "Who Am I?" | Karen's Story

Karen has spent over 22 years living military life.

Married at 18, she entered adulthood as a military spouse and spent decades supporting her family through the unique challenges of military service. Having experienced life as both an enlisted spouse and an officer spouse, Karen brings a rare perspective on the evolution of military family life.

In this episode, Karen opens up about the identity crisis she faced in her 30s when she realized she had spent so much of her life focused on everyone else that she wasn't sure who she was anymore. What followed was a journey of self-discovery, personal growth, and entrepreneurship that eventually led to the creation of Sailors & Sons.

We discuss:
• Getting married at 18
• Growing up within military culture
• The differences between enlisted and officer spouse life
• Identity loss and rediscovering yourself
• Starting over in your 30s
• Building Sailors & Sons
• Advice for military spouses trying to find themselves again

Whether you're a new military spouse or have been living this lifestyle for decades, Karen's story is a powerful reminder that your identity can evolve and that it's never too late to pursue something that's truly yours.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:07

Hello everyone, welcome to another episode of Face Buddies. I'm your host, Leigh. If you are new to this podcast, this podcast is geared towards military spouses, girlfriends, veterans alike. We share stories and connect via shared commonality. Today is a very special day. I have Miss Karen here. She is the owner and founder of Sailors and Sons. She's been married for 22 years to a service member, and she's here to share her story. Hi, Miss Karen. How are you? Hi, I'm kidding you. I'm doing great. Thank you so much for coming on. I'm so excited to have you and to just know more about you. Share your story. You are such a vibe. Whenever we talked for the first time, we just couldn't stop giggling the whole time. I know.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

I know. I think that's it makes it so easy. You're so just bubbly. I love that. And your laugh is so contagious.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

Thank you. Okay, Miss Karen. So tell me a little bit more about you. So who is Karen outside of being a military spouse?

SPEAKER_00 1:20

I'm a mom, a mom of two boys. One is basically he's an adult, I guess. He's 19. And then I have a 10-year-old also. I'm I'm a business owner. I'm a creative. I'm just, I don't know. I'm I'm just here living, you know. I'm a California girl, born and raised. And so we're back in San Diego. So I kind of feel like I'm back in my element, but I also miss so many other places that we've lived as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

That's amazing. So how did you and your husband meet? And what did your relationship look like before the military?

SPEAKER_00 2:03

So me and my husband met in high school. And I know first thing people say I was like, oh my God, high school sweethearts. And we kind of met because he's he was a grade higher than me. So we didn't start dating until maybe the last few months of high school, of his high school, his senior year. And so not too much high school sweethearts. And then he had left to boot camp that summer. And we stayed together-ish, you know, you know, the whole summer breakup kind of thing. Girl, yes, weather and all that stuff that happens. It's like, oh my god, it's like a tale's old time, right? And so and so we didn't really have much of a relationship before the military because we dated for about four or five months before he went to boot camp. So I've only pretty much known him as a service member.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

Wow. So you guys didn't really interact in high school or anything along those lines. It's more of so you guys just like so happened to be going to the same high school, and it's more of a high and bye type of thing.

SPEAKER_00 3:13

A little bit because he was definitely, he was definitely a party guy. And I was not. I was more an athlete. And our our crews didn't, they would cross over sometimes, but he was a partier to another degree, you know? So us coming together was kind of weird. And I think it's still kind of weird, but it somehow has worked out. Really?

SPEAKER_01 3:38

So how why why do you think it's a little bit weird? Because you guys are just so polar opposite.

SPEAKER_00 3:43

I mean, we're very much alike now, but yeah, it's just sometimes I get sometimes it's weird. I go back and I'm like, how did how did little little just me, because I grew up with very strict parents and I really didn't, and I didn't not party because I didn't want to. I just couldn't because my parents didn't allow for me to go out and stuff. Yeah, you know, Hispanic Hispanic his name Hispanic parents. Exactly. You know, uh and I'm like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

Or when you go out, or when you go out, it'll be like okay, I'm going to the grocery store.

SPEAKER_00 4:34

Yes, every bad scenario that has ever happened to any other human being is going to happen to me.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

Yeah, because you go to the grocery store or you go to your friend's house.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uno nunca sabe.

SPEAKER_01 4:49

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 4:51

That should just that should have been just stamped on your forehead. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that's why it's kind of a trip that I ended up with somebody who was just so free as a bird because he didn't really have too many rules at home that kept him at home, and I was the polar opposite and stuff. So I think that's why I get tripped out as to how this ended up working because we were on two different lanes. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 5:23

Yeah. So he comes back from basic training and you guys meet up again. You guys are boyfriend and girlfriend. So how how was how is that dynamic?

SPEAKER_00 5:35

We we break up during the summer because he says, I got a I get a call out of nowhere. Like it was day and night. One day he's my boyfriend, the other he's not. He's like, Oh, my recruiter said that it's a bad idea that I that I have a girlfriend. Yeah, recruiter and a recruiter. I'm like, got it. Now you know you can't trust a thing a recruiter says, right? My bad to all the recruiters out there. But and so he broke up with me. And we we continue to still keep in touch during that summer. And I told him the morning that he left for boot camp where he had a meet at the recruiting office. I showed up and I was like, I want to be there when you leave. And he was like, Oh, nobody's gonna be there. Not, I'm not letting my family come or anything. And so I'm like, Well, I'm gonna come. And I did, I met him there. He literally a friend dropped him off. I believe a friend dropped him off, and I was the only person there waiting for him to say bye. And he just said he always remembered that. He always remembered that, and nobody else, no other, none of his other friends or anybody else outside of his family kind of offered to do that. And he said it stayed with him, and so he started writing me in boot camp. And he just, it was a whole different vibe than when before he left boot camp. He was he seemed very in love and very motivated. I mean, you're having some deprivations, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

You're with your thoughts and you're with your thoughts of reading those letters. The people reading the letters before they send them off to you. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:21

They're probably rolling their eyes, right? They've seen it all. And so he he writes me and I just write him back. And I'm like, okay, we're gonna get back together. And he comes back from you know, when they graduate boot camp and they have to go to their school after. So he took that break in between to come home and he proposed to me. Oh and mind you, I'm a high, I'm I'm a senior in high school. Oh my god. Yes, I say yes, girl. I say yes, I say yes as if I'm running my own life. I'm still living under my parents' roof, as uh, you know, very sheltered. My parents kept me very came into my head. I just said yes, and I was I was a senior in high school, engaged.

SPEAKER_01 8:17

That's like crazy. So, what did your family say?

SPEAKER_00 8:23

I mean, they weren't happy, they didn't even know that officially I was dating Ruben. I never told him. He would come over, and I'm sure my parents had speculations that he was my boyfriend. So to them, it was probably like, wait, you're you you we think you've been dating this guy, and he'd go been gone the last few months, and now all of a sudden he comes home and he asks to marry you. Like they were not happy. It was it was not a very fun senior year.

SPEAKER_01 8:51

Very like very yeah, that's exactly what happened, mom. That's exactly what happened.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

Yeah. So and and I mean that's I guess that is a whole nother thing to dive into as to why why did I jump into saying yes when I was very I was a very sheltered person. And I mean, you can make specul speculations as to, oh, well, maybe you just wanted to leave and get out. And I I never saw it that way. I was just like, I really love this dude, and he he loves me, I love him, and we could start a future and this and that. And I mean, I didn't know anything, I just said yes. I took a chance and said yes. Wow. So if you really think about it, I really didn't date Ruben for very long before we got married. I really didn't know him in a way that you should know somebody before you even get engaged. Married. I like graduated on a Thursday in June and got married on Monday.

SPEAKER_01 9:55

That's crazy. But honestly, I feel like that's not necessarily uncommon when it comes to altering relationships. And you are such a phenomenon because you got engaged your senior year of high school and you've been married for 22 years plus, or yeah, 20 years plus. You guys have made it through your ups, your downs. You guys basically grew up together. It's to the point where you guys have probably been together longer than you've been separated, and I think that that's such a beautiful story and kind of and and admirable in its own way. So of course, girl, what the heck?

SPEAKER_00 10:40

So I mean, it hasn't been easy by any means, of course. No, no, just marriage being young in general, that's rough. Adding the military aspect to that, whoa, that's just a recipe for disaster right there. And I mean, I know a lot of people who make it, but there's a good amount of people that just don't, you know.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

I think that I mean, I haven't been with my partner for you know 20 years, but we've been together for long enough to know that it's either you grow together or you grow apart. So I'm sure that you are not the same girl that you were when you when he popped the question. I'm sure that he's not the same person that he was when he got on one knee and popped the question as well. Yeah, it's like you guys grew up together and you made this beautiful life for yourselves and just continue to do that, and I think that's that's that's beautiful in its own in its own way. Thank you. Of course. So you got engaged in high school, and now it's 22 years later. What was the hardest transition now that you're literally a new bride and now you're a military spouse all at once? What was your biggest challenge in that transition?

SPEAKER_00 12:06

I am being married and then not being with the person that you're married to, you know? Yeah. Is because straight off the jump, like I told you, I graduated, got married a couple days later, maybe a week or two later, he went back to baring. And I was supposed to go with him, right? Because at that time dependents were allowed. And literally a few days after he got back to baring, the Navy was like, we're evacuating all dependents. And so I had to learn how to be without him. And you know, it's it's funny because my family still to this day, my extended family, my cousins, my aunts, my uncles, still don't know who my husband is because he's always gone. And oh yeah, we don't live around and he, you know, around family as much anymore and stuff. And so it's it's common. Mine think that mine is AI. They think that they think that my husband's AI because they never say yeah, you know, and so I think just being married, but not living a married life, like you're you know, so it's just it's stuff like it's stuff like that where you know it just didn't feel real. And so then you have this life where you you're kind of living a single life in a sense, because you don't have your partner around all the time. That finally, when you're living with your partner that you've been married to for a while, and finally, because you're able to live with him, you're like, Whoa, you know, I was allowed to do this when we were living apart, now I'm not. It's just a lot of getting to know each other kind of deal. Being married, but actually living together and being married is was a huge transition because for the first couple years we were apart a lot. You know, I know we talked earlier how I went to Bahrain later on and for spurts of time. And it wasn't so hard. It wasn't so hard there because it was a very secluded kind of life because of a certain bubble that you had to live in there. But, you know, once it was just so much coming together and then living apart, coming together and living apart for the first three years, I would say that was the hard one of the hardest parts of our marriage was figuring out how to be married and be together while we are married, while still having these really immature ways of thinking. You're still a child at that point, and things that you make a big deal that aren't really a big deal in the scope of life, all of those things are just big factors and are a recipe for disaster, you know, if you don't try to figure those things out. So yeah. Being together.

SPEAKER_01 15:13

Being together, but being apart.

unknown 15:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:15

Yeah. No, I I totally get you. I could only imagine just being as young as you were, and then trying to navigate not only married life, which is hard within itself, but also being a military spouse while your husband is constantly being deployed or stationed overseas, where you can't even join him. Or the first year, the first three years you mentioned, you guys were sporadic and chaotic when it comes to being together, not being together, physically together, not being physically together. Then Bahrain happened. It's kind of like a similar situation that's happening right now with what's going on where the pendas aren't allowed anymore, which is kind of crazy because they weren't allowed for a really long time. And then randomly this year, they allowed them to go back, and then this broke out, which is insane within itself, and now they're not allowed anymore. Um but what has essentially kept your relationship strong over these 22 years that you guys have been together?

SPEAKER_00 16:22

Um I mean, we're people of faith, like we're Christians. So I think foundationally we just believe like Christ is the foundation of our marriage. So we are we pray for each other and we don't do, we don't make any moves without consulting God first. That that like we learned the hard way that when we make decisions out of a selfish place, it does not work out for us, you know. Even with the best intentions, like if it's not meant for us, it's gonna fail, you know. So um, number one, God. Number two, I think it's just like, you know, and I've just been blessed with someone who eventually like we've learned that we have to let each other grow. Sometimes I've grown, I uh like outgrow him a little bit, and then there's sometimes where he outgrows me a little bit, but we allow ourselves that space to do so, you know, and it's not always easy. It's not, especially with there's always changes going on in our lifestyle that you like you have to, you can't be so rigid in this type of environment. There's no way you can't be so hard-headed and you can't be so stand your ground in your marriage and your relationship because it it not all seasons are the same. You might have some certain rules or boundaries or you know, certain values in in one decade and then the next, it's totally your your values as a couple, as a family, as an individual, they change. So it you always have to evolve. You can't stay the same because nothing else stays the same in our life, you know. Everything changes.

SPEAKER_01 18:19

Exactly. Everything changes. Yeah, that's true. You gotta you gotta move through the seasons, you know. You just gotta Yeah, because what you might find, what might bother you today is not gonna essentially bother you tomorrow. Yeah, that's crazy. One of the one of the biggest things that my husband and I kind of underlined put in our relationship is more of so are we upset? Yes. Is this gonna matter in the next five years? No, let it go.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

Yeah, you know, that's that's a good plan, right? A good mindset. Choose your battles.

SPEAKER_01 18:59

So essentially, essentially just allowing each other to grow individually. So just to touch a little bit on that, in what capacity do you mean? Do you mean in career? Do you mean individually as in to do different hobbies? And what makes it hard or what made it hard for for you guys throughout these years?

SPEAKER_00 19:23

So I I mean, I could say it's different for everybody. I've always been pretty supportive on whatever my husband has wanted to do. I mean, he knows he kind of knows obviously the Navy best. So I trust him in certain decisions, and he he's very straightforward to with a detailer or anybody that he talks to, I need to talk to my wife first. You're not gonna get a decision from me at this moment. I will call you back tomorrow morning with an answer or something like that. Smart boy. Yeah, I appreciate that. I have a husband who is like puts he lets people know this. I it's not just me. I have to consult, there's someone else I have to consult with. But uh, going back to your question, for me, you know, I've gone, I I I went through around when I was 30, I went through this phase where I just felt like I woke up one day and I was like, I don't know who I am. I I've only known myself as your wife, I've only known myself as their mom. I've only known myself as a military spouse. I don't know what I am because I wasn't a I didn't give myself that time between graduating high school and marriage. I literally jumped from one set of hands to another, I felt like, you know.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

You found yourself. You never found yourself individually before then.

SPEAKER_00 20:57

No, no, and I I think when I was younger in those three years where we were living apart and we were living separate, it was like I would find little little pieces of me, but then I'd have to let those pieces of me go because you know we'd have to move or you know, things weren't going well, or you know, I you just life happens. And so I'm like, I need to figure this out. And it that was rough. That was rough. And but my husband was super patient. And although there were a lot of times where he was like, What do you mean? You you're you're taken care of, we have a great family, we have a great foundation, and but I was just like, something just did not feel right. And he gave me the space, and not like, I mean, I just went, you know, I just went crazy and just started going out or anything like that. Of course, I was still respectful within my marriage and stuff, but it was more like, okay, I went to go join a women's a women's tackle football team. And that changed so much for me because I grew up as an athlete, right? So for me, it's like I lost that part of me and I was able to find it again. Because on this women's football team, I wasn't someone's wife. I wasn't someone's mom. I was just literally just a girl on a team with her friends. You know? You're just a girl. I was just a girl. And that was just, it gave me so much life. And it gave me individualism that I was seeking at the time that it helped me so much. I that is one of the best things that I did. And this is when we were living, we were stationed in Washington, and we lived in military housing and I had military friends. I I ended up being great friends with my neighbors. And of course, it was military, those are my military friends, but they they necess they weren't necessarily part of my husband's command. So in a way, I I found a little bit of individualism, individuality. I keep saying the wrong word, but individuality through them because I wasn't necessarily making force, I wasn't, I didn't feel forced to make friends with somebody at my husband's command. And then my youngest son was really involved in the local football program. And I ended up meeting a lot of civilian families there. And that's the first place where I really had a big group of civilian friends who had who honestly didn't really know a lot of the military lifestyle and stuff. So it's it was kind of refreshing. I know sometimes making friends with civilian civilian people sometimes can be frustrating because they don't really understand. They try to and they try to be sympathetic, but sometimes okay, they don't really get it. But it was it was the first time where they were super supportive, but also the conversations didn't revolve around being military and stuff. Yeah, it must be really nice. Yeah, and that that helped me too was branching out little by little outside of the military identity, you know, because I had been I'd been a military spouse since I was 18 years old. And so, in a way, I had I didn't make it my my whole personality per se, but there was a certain identity piece that I would cling on to that I didn't force myself to grow out of that. Around 30, I was like, I don't know who I am. Who am I? What am I? Why did my shelter me? Yeah, where am I? I started going like, oh my god, that's when I started evaluating how I grew up and how literally I felt like I went from one, you know, set of rules kind of to another set of rules, being a military spouse and and not having that space to grow and you know just asking so many questions. And that's when I started going to therapy, and then that helped as well. So military spouses, get therapy. Therapy helps really does help.

SPEAKER_01 25:28

It helps so much. I uh I didn't marry my husband as young as you did, but I was still in that transitional period of who am I? I think my aha moment, similar to yours, came when I turned 25. My frontal lobe completely developed one day, and I just woke up and I was like, what am I doing with my life? Yeah. Where, why, who, and when am I going to be doing something with my life? And I think I just started to slowly but surely rediscovering who I was. Because before before I married my husband, I I was a couple of years by myself. I met my husband at 19. Met my husband at 19, and then we got together for three months, and then he got stationed in Bahrain, coincidentally. He got stationed in Bahrain, and so we were back and forth for years. So that year and eight months, I was slowly trying to find who I was. I was super independent, had a job, I had an apartment, I had my own car, had my own friends question mark. Um, yeah, because it's when you're young and dumb, you really don't know what you value in friendships, you know.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

So true. So true. That's such a big point that you're hitting on. Once you go through a certain amount of friends in the when it comes to being friends with other military spouses, you start to realize what you value. And I call it speed dating. Right off the bat, you're like, you're like, okay, you just said this, and that's already I'm not looking for that type of friend. Or something, someone says something, and you're like, oh, you just start getting good at uh filtering it. Yes, filtering certain things about people because you don't have time. You don't have time to mess around, you don't have time to date, you know. I just want to sit at the table and you know, ring the little bell, ding, and be like, yes, no, you know, you're gonna be a good friend and you need therapy. You you need a cult tricker, you know, like therapy's free girl. Anyway, yeah, you and I, let's talk. You, I like you. Yeah, it's exactly so. You hit the nail on the head how values play such a big part of, and it's part of that growth as a military spouse. You start to hold on to certain values, and who's gonna help you keep those values in your circle?

SPEAKER_01 28:12

It's about quality versus quantity when you get to a certain point in your life. Girls, once your frontal lobe develops, you start singing. Um you start seeing the roots. Yeah you you start you start filtering out those friendships and leaving friendships behind that no longer serve you. And it's okay to outgrow friendships as well, especially being a military spouse. I mean, out of sight, out of mind, right? No, well, I'm really bad.

SPEAKER_00 28:43

I've my friends will tell you that I'm really bad at keeping in touch. So, not like disrespectful out of sight, out of mind. It's just if it's not in front of me, if you're not living on my street, it's so hard for me to just stop and be like, hey, I should I should check in on this person.

SPEAKER_01 29:03

But Karen, that's called a low maintenance friend. And that is my favorite type of friendship ever. When I reference out of sight, out of mind, it's more of some, okay, you do not serve me anymore. You're in Italy while I'm in Georgia. I'm I'm good. You know what I mean? But you are in a low maintenance friendship. Um I'm like a cactus as well. I am such a low maintenance friend. I have friends from that I met back in 2018 that I still consider like sisters, and we only talk once every three to six months. Yeah. And when we talk, it's like, hey girl, what's going on? Right? Yeah. Those are my favorites. Underlying understanding that everyone has their own individual lives, and we just keep in touch when we keep in touch, and whenever we keep in touch, it's perfect. You know what I'm saying? So, do you feel like growing up together made things harder or easier for the both of you?

SPEAKER_00 30:10

I mean, now hindsight, I can be like, you know, we're so foundationally in sync. We had to go through all that to be at the same level. So it's definitely made it easier now. You know, we don't have to think or fight over certain things or argue over certain things because we just know there's just no conversation about something. We just both know each other so well. So yeah, I mean it's not, it's not always easy, but we've been able to come out of some really tough times.

SPEAKER_01 30:52

Yeah. I mean, you're two different people living two different lives, trying to essentially coexist together while he serves and while he dedicates his life to the military. So obviously adjusting from such a young age to being a mom, to also being there, a solo parenting whenever he's gone, and supporting that, and also trying to find yourself must have been really hard. I couldn't, I couldn't even imagine just going through though all of those emotions and just trying to find yourself all at the same time. All through those years, you know?

SPEAKER_00 31:31

Yeah, yeah. And there are times where you think you have this life figured out, and there are just certain there are certain things, right? You just feel like you know, but then all of a sudden a situation that you couldn't have thought of really makes you, it really humbles you, and you're like, whoa, yeah. I do not, I was not prepared for this. And you don't know what you don't know. I I could have said before this last deployment that my husband said, uh my husband did, I could have said, I've got the deployments figured out. I've I've I give myself a data sulk and then I start cleaning and this and that, and I have the whole thing, right? There's basic advice that I would give to any military spouse, and for me, I would have I'd be like, okay, this could cure me. But then I went through a deployment where Ruben was gone so much longer than I thought he would be. He was already gone a lot with the workups of the ship. And then he the deployment got extended and he ended up missing our most of our son's senior year of high school. And it just made me so sad. And I went to a very sad place. And if you would have told me that I would have experienced that before that, I would have said, there's no way. I know what to expect. I know how to, I know how to, you know, kind of fix myself or look forward to things or X, Y, Z. But nothing was getting me out of that hole, you know. I was just very sad for my husband that he was missing all these big things that he essentially worked really hard to give our son four years at one high school. My husband worked really hard to try to keep us in one place. And my husband ended up missing his graduation because of it, you know, and it just made me so sad because, like, you know, you raise your kids and you you picture of what like graduation's gonna be like, and it didn't look like what you thought it would look like, you know, and like you're there alone and you're oh you're like celebrating, you're celebrating, but you're sad at the same time, you know. And at some point Ruben was like, hey, like you cannot be sad. Like, I need you to go live your life with the baby before he goes to college, like uh for me, like you go have have fun, enjoy your time, because I don't get I don't get that time with him. So you need to make sure that you get you have permission to have that great time with him. Like seriously, it would make me feel so much better if I knew that you were just living for both of us instead of sitting there sad. I'm like, that makes it even more sad. I wanted you to cuddle me.

SPEAKER_01 34:33

Oh you're tearing up. I'm such a crybaby. Me too. No, uh that that would actually that would make me cry even more, and then when I would be in a corner rocking back and forth. So, no, I will not have a good time. Okay, don't you dare tell me to have a good time. Tell me to have a good time.

SPEAKER_02 35:03

Yeah. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 35:05

But yeah, no, I I couldn't even imagine. You are so uh like resilient. That's it's amazing. I think that's one of the qualities that a lot of military spouses in your position have. You acquired it based on your experiences. You have to be resilient in order to be in this lifestyle. It's either it it's either it's either you are or you're not. And if you're not, then it'll be very, very difficult for you to adjust. Yeah. So with that being said, you your your spouse started as an enlisted member and now he's an officer. You've experienced both sides. What are the two major differences that most people just don't talk about?

SPEAKER_00 35:54

There's the military spouse side that I could go down, and then there's just families in general. So with families in general, there's honestly a a certain, you know, struggle with you know not having, you know, more of a paycheck. And you a lot of enlisted families, they go on assistance. Wick. I remember being on WIC. I remember needing the milk and going to the commissary. And back then it was super hard. You had to make sure whatever tickets they gave you was what you're paying, what you're grabbing on the shelves. And it was a big mess. And I remember being there. And I remember also the Navy being like, oopsie, we overpaid you by a lot. Oh my god. Two years ago when you were in Bahrain when you were getting, you know, buckets of money. We're gonna take that money away today, you know, tomorrow's payday. Oh, yeah, you're not gonna pay get paid anything. I think we're gonna leave you with $200 for the next day. They still do that.

SPEAKER_01 36:59

They still do that, BS. They still do that, BS. Every time my husband sees an initial amount of money, he's like, Don't touch it. Don't touch it.

SPEAKER_00 37:08

And I'm like, you know, and I think it's just the a lot of couples get married young and get in the same position that maybe me were once I married Ruben. I those first three years I did work, and what and when I had little Ruben three or four years into our marriage, I just I stopped working. And because it just was not financially best. You're working to have your kid in a daycare, and it's not like I was working towards a career, it was just if it was I was working towards a career, okay. Well, the time at this place will get me somewhere else so I can, you know, kind of make up for that. But I it was just, you know, an office job. And I'm like, that's not really worth leaving my newborn at home for where I have to pay for daycare, and I'm not I'm not really contributing to my family, so I'd rather just stay home. And I ended up staying home for a while, and once he went to school, is I started working again, but it just did not work for our family. It just was way too stressful. Ruben was that a command where he had a a lot of exercises and trying to get little Reuben to school and deal with my work hours. It just wasn't feasible for us, and we just made that decision, okay, I'm just gonna stay home. And I have stayed home since then, but a lot of people don't have that luxury of having a parent that could one of the parents stay home. And I think that's a a big difference between the two sides is one, you kind of one, you can have an option on the officer side. You can be like, oh, my spouse can stay home, you know, and make a significant amount of money and whatnot. And then the enlisted side, it's like, whoa, we either have to ration, you know, ration. Yeah, that's really sad. Or, you know, you both the the parents have to work, you know, and it's hard trying to work with military schedules. It's I don't I honestly I don't I don't want to be like, wow, I don't know how they do it because that's they're so you guys are so brave. I could never, you know. But you do it. Exactly. All those things that people tell.

SPEAKER_01 39:43

Oh my god. I couldn't even imagine.

SPEAKER_00 39:47

But it's so it is hard. I couldn't I I can imagine. I mean, it kind of did it for a little bit, so I can imagine how hard it could be, but it's a big sacrifice, you know, on families. And then on the on the military spouse side of it is, you know, amount of officers is there were prior enlisted, right? So they're they were enlisted for a significant amount of time and they commissioned, but that's not I I want to say that's not the majority of officers. The majority of officers went to college or the Naval Academy and then you know got it went to the Navy. And they come in with girlfriends or spouses who also have gone to college. They lived a life before so they have a certain set of education or skills or or identity that isn't so wrapped up in the military, that sometimes there are just some people that come off very tone-deaf or very just don't realize that there's a whole other side of the military and the elicit side that do struggle. And with spouses that haven't had a chance to be stationed somewhere long enough to go to school or form a a career in something that they really want. They haven't had that chance to do that as opposed to maybe a spouse, an officer spouse, because they had they kind of had that life. They were allowed to, they had that time to grow before they joined this lifestyle. And a lot of other spouses don't. I was one of them, you know, and that's why I can see both sides. Is it nice being an officer spouse? I mean, dog, yeah, sure. Sure, you know, I don't mean there's no real perks to it. I mean, besides, you know, waiting for that paycheck to the first and 15th. I mean we all have bigger than the 15th of the 15th, you know, yeah, but it's not like it comes with a parking spot or it comes with an extra discount at the exchange or anything like that. So it's but I I've been able to see both sides, you know.

SPEAKER_01 42:09

So when you made that shift, did your life change socially, financially, physically? How did it change?

SPEAKER_00 42:21

Financially a lot, right? Significantly, yeah. It is a big jump and it's very nice. And we were able to live in a very nice house and housing. That was that was a nice jump. But I know that that's not a jump everywhere either. That was just not the case everywhere. And it came with a whole nother set of responsibilities for my husband, which then you you know, you he comes home and he says certain things about work, and then you start you start seeing or you start hearing about, you know, the big picture kind of stuff where a lot of people don't think about that. So it's like, oh, okay, so that's why they have to do certain things, and and that's why you guys do this, or that's why, you know, this certain person does this. And so you start understanding a little bit more of like the officer side, but I mean, not so much where I could tell you what you know, his everyday inner workings of work are. But yeah, that was the biggest shift was the financial piece because I mean, we're we lived in a very small housing in Washington, and there everybody was intermingled there. There was really no big officer E7 or you know, senior enlisted or junior enlisted. Everybody was kind of living next door to each other. So you had if you, you know, you could be living next to an E5, and if you guys vibe, you vibe, you know.

SPEAKER_01 43:46

Ah really?

SPEAKER_00 43:48

Yeah, that's how that's how it was at the time when we moved into that housing in Washington. It was really small. And right before we got there, I guess they didn't want or there were people didn't want to live there. There for some reason. They they were actually giving out gift cards for people to move in. People didn't really want to live there. I think they they were able to get more for their beach outside of town. And then when the Navy started sending more ships out there, that's when it started getting so busy. Busy. And you know, when it wasn't busy, they were just kind of lit letting people live wherever.

SPEAKER_01 44:24

I see. I see. So how did friendships kind of align or disalign whenever you became whenever you were enlisted wife and now you're an officer wife? Did your friendships change? Or is it or did they say that that's mean at all?

SPEAKER_00 44:39

I know people say, I know that's a running joke, you know, and I know there are there are I have seen the screenshots of those kinds of posts in certain military spouse groups, the the the real mean ones. So I know people do kind of take that serious of oh, your spouse is this rank, we can't hang out. But that's ridiculous to me. I've never, I honestly I've never encountered it, so I can't speak on that exactly, but I know that it exists. I know that there's spouses out there who really take that rule serious.

SPEAKER_01 45:17

With that being said, did you ever feel judge in either role as an enlisted wife or as an officer wife?

SPEAKER_00 45:28

No, not really. I mean, there I I can't lie, there have been people or spouses or people, I guess, that spousing people who, you know, do say, oh, well, we'll be talking about something random, and they'll be like, oh, well, you know, well, I guess that doesn't apply because you're an officer spouse or something. And it's just like you can tell they had a bad interaction with somebody before. So you try not to take it personally, but it's still kind of annoying. And they just like drop little things like that. So I have had those kinds of moments where I'm like, okay, I'm not gonna take that personally. Somebody else did something to you, and you're just kind of trying to impose that on me, which is whatever. Yeah, but not to the point where I'm like, whoa. I'm telling my husband, we might have a problem, you know.

SPEAKER_01 46:21

Yeah, well, that's good. At least you don't have any negative experiences when it comes to either or. Personally, I've never had a negative experience with a spouse. It's more of so just a discord online about people having those disagreements within themselves. So, what would you tell a military spouse that's going through the transition of being an enlisted wife to an officer's wife? Do you have any advice for them?

SPEAKER_00 46:50

Oh, not that nothing really changes, honestly, at home, I guess, and within friends. If you hear about you know, that you can't talk to certain people anymore, you have to cut. No, you're still an individual. Don't listen, you know, don't listen to them. Uh, I mean, I don't know, not unless your spouse has a really picky rule about it, or if it's somebody within your husband's department or command, I could see how that, yes, could be a little bit of a of an issue, right? But if, you know, if somebody's working on one ship and then somebody's stationed somewhere else, yeah, why can't why can't you? Exactly. You know, so just don't take that set of made-up rules. I don't know. Is it made up? I don't know if it's a real rule.

SPEAKER_01 47:41

I think it is. It's fratinization. It's a really but but it's it's a it's a for the service members. I'm not sure if it applies for the spouses.

SPEAKER_00 47:49

However, I think some spouses just wanted to adopt the dislocate rules.

SPEAKER_01 47:54

But I also think that uh touching on what you said, if that person that you're interested in being friends with is under your husband's command or is let's just say your husband or spouse is is is in the navy, if that sailor is under your husband's command or under, you know, that's his sailor, whatever the case may be, you don't want to be friends.

SPEAKER_00 48:18

Yes, that is when it's very close proximity, like in their department at their command, yes. But if I mean you guys are working at two different commands on a base or something, and you're not really intertwined with each other, then by all means, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 48:35

So shifting gears a little bit now that we're talking about sailors, you I see what you did there, I see what you did there. You are the owner and founder of Sailors and Sons, one of the beautiful shops that I've seen on Instagram. And now you have a spot in San Diego that you sell live merch, correct? Yes. Like that's so cool. Oh, thank you. So, what inspired you to start Sailors and Sons?

SPEAKER_00 49:14

I used to make wood signs, right? And that was when we were stationed in Washington and I loved it. I loved doing woodworking and making signs for people. But once we moved to California in COVID, it was you know the end of COVID, the prices of wood went up, and we also lived in a house where I really didn't have that space to woodwork and stuff. But for me as a as an individual, I love being creative. I like colors are are very stimulating to me, different fonts, design. That's all my realm, right? So I'm like, how can I stay creative but not take up, not have to buy a whole bunch of stuff and be able not have to worry about machinery or anything? And my son had an iPad and I bought an Apple Pen and downloaded a design program and just started doodling. And I had made these signs when we were back living in Washington with the you had me at Tricare uh Forever Your Depend. Like I had made signs with the hearts that said the stuff in the middle. And I was like, oh, you know what? I'm gonna, I'm gonna take those and make them into stickers instead. Like that way I don't have to like make anything uh with wood. And that's how it just started. I made them at home. I made them with my little Cricut machine, and I was like, oh, these are fun to make. And I just started making more designs, more designs, and would post them on Instagram. And I mean, growing on Instagram is a chore, but um eventually just started progressing, and then like you learn, like, okay, you have to make content in order for people to know that you exist, right? And you start making content and then you're making product and content and product and content. And so like now it's just like evolved into like you know, um more than just stickers, it's cups, it's um like reusable tote bags, keychains. Um, I just did a military kids shirt like line with three different designs, so it's definitely growing uh bigger than I thought that it could, um, especially coming from it just being stickers. And that's so like symbolic. I love it. Yeah, I don't know. I I mean I love it too. It's so much fun. I love the fact that I'm able to take something that I thought was a just a me thing, a me moment, a me quirk, and then put it in a design form and realize that we all have shared experiences. Like, for instance, like one of my biggest things is like commissary sushi. I love commissary sushi. I didn't realize that there was like like a cult phenomenon with commissary sushi until I made something and people like, oh my gosh, I love commissary sushi. I know people hate on it, people don't touch it, but I do. Like, and it's just like it's stuff like that, those weird shared experiences that I thought were just me. And you put it, you make it look cute, you make it look funny, and like people are like, oh my god, I thought it was just me too.

SPEAKER_01 52:40

I love that, yeah. You're like connecting everybody via shared experiences, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 52:47

Like, you know, the stickers, like the little moving stickers. I love it. You know, I just I thought that it was just like me, like, oh my god, the stickers, the stickers, and then like you start thinking to other people, and you're like not only that, you like find them like five years later.

SPEAKER_01 53:03

I'm like, this is from like from like our first PCS.

SPEAKER_00 53:08

Exactly. I call I call them the PCSS T D because they're they hide, but they always come back, girl. Oh my god, they there's always an outbreak sometime in your future, and you just like moving stuff in your garage, and like you, there's a random like tote or a random thing, and you're like, I haven't seen you in a while. You frightened me.

SPEAKER_01 53:39

So when was the do you remember the moment that you were like, oh my god, I'm actually doing this?

SPEAKER_00 53:49

Yeah, I guess like you know, coincidentally, like this cup, I just happened to fill myself. I you know, sometimes you like really overthink content and and then you post it and it's a bust. Like, no, but like Instagram doesn't see doesn't allow people to see it or whatnot. And um like a couple years ago, I had made this cup and I just filmed myself like packing it, low effort content, and I just did like a real simple voiceover, and that reel ended up going like crazy, and every it felt like every few minutes I was getting an order, another order, another order. And at first it's like, oh my god, so cool. But then you get to the point where you're like, oh my god, like I don't know, I I don't know when this is gonna stop. Like it's like a good problem to have, right? Yeah, you're like, I don't know what like what, and then you know, you know, people are reaching out and they're like, we want to buy like a whole bunch of stuff, or like, you know, um we want we wanna like be able to buy them wholesale or like like all this stuff, and I'm like, oh my gosh, I think I have a business. I think I have a legit thing, you know, and and doing little things like being able to like uh build the like a logo sheet with an idea in your head of what you want your little logo to look like and stuff like that, and being able to put that like on on your tape, like your packing tape, and put you know, your Sailor and Sons and logo, your little mascot on there. Like it's just little things where I, you know, I'm always like, whoa, that's crazy. Like, if I could show you real quick, like I have this little setup right here, like where I have I have I have back, like I have a stock of cups. Like that's for me, I am so grateful for having just stock. Like, you know, where someone orders something, almost anything, I can like kind of just grab it and just pack it instead of just waiting for somebody to put in an order and like making it as I go, you know, like there are some things where I have to do that, but I'm just I'm I don't know, like I am, I like I really am proud of myself, you know. Thank you. Yeah, you know, like there are just some things that like you can't you can't keep in this type of lifestyle, but like this is this is something that I could take anywhere.

SPEAKER_01 56:30

This is yours, yeah, this is yours. I'm just a girl.

SPEAKER_00 56:35

I am just a girl. I'm such a cry, baby. No, you're not, you're just emotionally in tune, right?

SPEAKER_01 56:51

Because we're just two girls, like surviving life, trying to figure stuff out, and like trying to figure us out while also being like a spouse and then being like a military spouse and navigating the military life, navigating our own small businesses, you navigate being a mom and everything that comes with that. Yeah, but we're just girls.

SPEAKER_00 57:14

We are just girls, and that's like it's it's hard. It's like, you know, people are like, don't make being a military spouse your whole personality. And I I think I get it, like with people like you and me, who had a podcast based off of military spouses and me having a a business based off of military spouse humor. How someone can be like, oh, she's making that her whole personality. It's like, well, first of all, I had to make like, at least for me, like I had to make sure that I found myself so I would be okay putting my name behind something that is so military affiliated that I'm not gonna be sour if someone tells me, oh, you made it your whole personality. Like, no, my create me being creative and being able to create things is part of my personality and has allowed me to make products that resonate with people. Just like you have a personality of speaking and and listening and like you know, carrying conversation. That is part of your personality that has allowed you to connect with other military spouses. So that's where people kind of get those lines crossed. Like there probably are people who really do make it their personality, but I mean, only therapy. Yeah, there's a theme here, just in case people aren't picking up on that, but exactly, guys, yeah. At the same time, how much it's like neat what's that nurture versus nature? Like, yes, this lifestyle has impacted the way we think, the way we do things, yes, and what of it, and what of it? Like, we're lit literally adapting to our environment. What is wrong with that? Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 59:10

And I hate when people say, Oh, yeah, like you made this like your whole personality, such as like either comparing or either like referencing you or me that we both have military spouse associated niches when it comes to like our product or our services. And they say like dumb stuff like that, you make this your whole personality. No, not necessarily. We're actually trying to shift from that narrative, but also trying to fill a gap within our community, right? We found a gap, we're filling it, right? Like it's there's nothing wrong with giving back to the community that has served you well for many years, right? Yeah, like we can talk bad about you know this community all day long, but at the same time, like that this community has provided the military, has provided security, medical insurance, has provided security for some families, housing, utilities are paid if you are living in base housing. Like, there's so many resources that come with being a military spouse, and I want to embrace it, okay?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:19

Who cares? Like, why would yeah, I mean, it supplies so yeah, many comforts of our life. Like, why wouldn't we feel like we should identify as a military spouse? Like, why can't we like kind of delve into that a little bit?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:41

Exactly. And give back, give back to our community, like yeah, okay. So what was the what was the hardest part about building Sailors and Sons while also navigating the military lifestyle?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:56

Um I mean doubt, like doubt for sure. It's like how can I how can I take this and and it be a real thing? You know, I want to be able to um be creative, make an income, serve a community. Like, can I do that? And it's like, no, you can't, yes you can't, no you can't, yes, you can. And also, like comparison is such a thief of joy. Like, you see other military spouses who are doing their thing, they're running their business, they're running their podcasts, they're running like these great organizations, and you're like, oh, I can never do that. And it but like you're doing it too. Like, while you're doubting yourself, you're doing it too. And it just it really does take um a lot of pushing yourself in order to do it, because like I know that people gas me up and like, no, like you keep doing this, like you know, I love it, these people love it, and sometimes like people don't realize that I'm like, wait, like, but I'm just a little girl, like, you know, I'm just friends. I have this conversation pretty frequently um with some of my small business friends, um, Erin and Ashley. Um Erin Dainty Forces, she makes like a lot of the like dainty jewelry and stuff. Uh I just my friend Ashley, woman in warrior, she makes a lot of apparel for the military family. But this is a conversation that we have pretty frequently. It's like, I just feel like a little girl. I want, I need somebody to guide me. And they have really helped me like navigate, like, okay, like maybe you should try this, or like, hey, I look this up, like you can do this. And it's really like getting out of your own head in order to try to move forward. Because if I really want this, if I really want to make a difference between like myself, my family's income, and um the community, I I have to put myself out there. You have to put yourself out there. People don't know you exist until you let them know you exist, right? So it's like making the content, having the hard conversations, um, putting yourself out there, like your goofy self out there. Like that sometimes it's embarrassing because I know like probably like my brother, which is my best friend, but also like my biggest hater, is like probably like, oh my god, who does Karen think she is? Like, I literally like you know, used to like punch her when I was little, you know, like that kind of thing. Yeah. And um, it's it's just yourself. You have to really like push yourself aside and be like, I'm gonna do this for myself. I don't want to do the same things that I've been doing the last 20 years or whatever, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:03

You want to change, yeah, and that's okay, yeah. Yeah, and that is okay, like finding that courage within yourself to like dip your toe into something new. Yeah, I feel that. Yeah, when I when I'm my frontal lobe developed, I I think now I'm just saying it because I but I felt the same way. Um just like the fear of being cringy, but one of the biggest things is that I just had to get over myself, you know. Yeah, just do it, post it, and uh F it. You know what I mean? Like who cares? No one's gonna die, and nobody has ever died of embarrassment ever. And if they have, I haven't heard of it. But that's so I mean, just do it and get it over with, and you'll thank yourself later for doing it. Yeah. So with that being said, what does success look like for you?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:15

Success? Like, I just want to be like like old and married, still at 80, 90 years old. And um I want to watch my husband like fully enjoy life without the military. Um, but like find peace, you know. And I want uh like, you know, have my kids around me and possibly grandkids and just not live with regret. That's what like success looks like to me. Like that's just like I'm not about like money and like I'm not about like having like all these like flashy things. It is more about like having a life where I just don't want to live with regret that's like success to me. That's really like being able just to sit back and and just take a deep breath and be like, oh like man, like life is good. You know that's what success looks like to me. That's beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:22

It's more of so like like living in peace with yourself. Yeah. With yourself, with your husband with your life with the life that you built.

unknown 1:06:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:35

That's gorgeous. I love that. Thank you. So what advice would you give to a brand new military spouse?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:45

Um brand new military spouse. I think definitely don't lose the things that you love. Figure out different ways to incorporate those things within an ever-changing world and then put put your put your marriage put your marriage before anybody else really because that's what's that's what matters the most is is your marriage. I leave that's those are my values you know but and really be able to have those hard conversations with your spouse about what is important for for you guys as an in as an individual as a couple as a family what you want the future to look like what success looks like for your family um and make sure you're asking those questions at the beginning because trying to figure out those things as you're trying to figure out yourself it's hard. It's hard like we never me and Ribb never had the conversations like oh like how are we raising our kids like what are what kind of rules do you think we're gonna have with them or like what what is important to you about like kids and family never you're not thinking about that when you're 18 you know like all these things are important once you start like living life and like you know when your frontal lobe your frontal cortex are you know starts developing that that's when you start asking yourself these questions and you start asking your your partner these questions but a lot of people don't I mean I didn't now I can see why it's so important to have certain conversations before you get married especially in the military yeah no that's that's really good advice getting to know your partner and also getting to know values is very important before you get engaged before you get married what would you what kind of advice would you give to a spouse who essentially feels lonely or disconnected right now based on their circumstances I know it it sucks to hear but like the village doesn't find you it's very rare that people go out of their way or pick up on something or or be like have such a good discernment about somebody that they'll go and seek you out of nowhere. I mean that very rarely happens right um your village is out there they you just have to really put yourself out there in order to know like you're gonna there are gonna be people that fail you and disappoint you and I think that's um a lot of spouses have one bad interaction and then they like want to categorize military spouses as you know turds or whatever and they like give up on that and it's like whoa you could have the same experience with anybody else out there you know it's like you have you really do have to put yourself in the situations that like I like to tell people like join an adult sport. Like if you're sporty if you want to get exercise if you want to meet people and you want to have fun go join an adult like sports league softball football soccer whatever they I'm sure there's something around your area like we if you take a walk around your town where there's like little shops usually they have like little workshops or something with something random that you've never ever even tried before just go see who you meet see like if something sparks your interest and it can develop into something else. You really have to give yourself a chance to explore people and things because that could lead you to so many different opportunities. It takes a lot of work it does I'm not gonna sugarcoat it it takes work to put yourself in a position where you are open to meet other people that's so true.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:24

I love that now shifting gears a little bit this is gonna be like fun questions what's something that would well what's something about you that would surprise a lot of people that would surprise I mean a lot of people get surprised when I tell them I played tackle football for like three years.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:46

Yeah that's crazy. Yeah and that was fun that was so fun to be able to hit people legally legally exactly so if if anybody who's listening is stationed in the Everett Washington area there's various women's teams in the area okay different sports leagues so you can join also in San Diego there's a a legit they're they're super competitive though they're like a competitive football league but anybody can try out if you could go back and give your younger self some advice what would it be what would you tell your younger self if you could go back baby Karen oh my gosh that it'll all work out every it'll all work out just just keep being patient you know girl 20 years later you're still married to this man you're good you know like just you're fine yeah you're good you're crying today and it'll be better just just wait a few years just wait a few years you know and that you're not and like seriously that like there's so many people struggling in their marriage as a young military spouse too like it's not just you it's almost every young military spouse uh every military couple out there who's trying to figure it out too it's not just you I agree Miss Karen to wrap this up we're gonna play a game of would you rather are you ready?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:33

Sure. Okay so would you rather go through a deployment with no communication or constant communication but it's always bad news I would rather do no communication wow yeah I yeah sometimes it for me it's just easier to do like day by day just boom boom boom boom boom like you have a schedule and you're like moving and grooving and you're you're you know like I don't know if that's sad to say but I would rather have no community than it's not communication with bad news all the time. Okay. Would you rather have an amazing community or hate your location or love your location but be alone um community yeah community yeah yeah because I mean if you don't like where you're at least you have people to hang out with to pass exactly exactly because I did I did the no community and gorgeous place which was Rhode Island.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:46

Rhode Island was gorgeous but it was the height of COVID and I had one friend and thank God for her but also I wasn't used to like just relying on my one friend to like you know like I'm like oh she's probably sick of me now you know so I look for community I think I'd rather have the community as well to be honest.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:09

So with that being said thank you so much Miss Karen for coming on Bass Buddies. It was amazing to have you and to learn more about you and your beautiful story. And thank you for sticking around for another episode of Bass Buddies. If uh you found value in this episode please make sure to like subscribe and share and also make sure to give Miss Karen a follow she is the like I said the owner and founder of Sailors and Sons. You can find them on Instagram TikTok and all socials so make sure you give her a follow all right everyone bye bye