Flutie vs Stegall
Arash Madani hosts football Hall of Famers Doug Flutie and Milt Stegall in their head-to-head show. Check in weekly for parlays, picks, analysis and some good old fashioned football talk!
Flutie vs Stegall
Doug Flutie tells the truth about the Modern NFL...
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Doug and Milt are back to talk everything NFL, CFL, College Football and more with Arash on this episode of Flutie vs Stegall.
I'm on a plane going to Pittsburgh and I hear this guy behind me go, You're Doug Floody. I go, Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who we gonna pick? Who are we gonna take? I go, I go, who's we? And I turn around, he's he's head to toe San Diego Chargers gear. Right. And I go to the former teams. And I look at him, I go, I go, Well, who do you think? And he's like, Well, obviously, we got to get a guard. I go, obviously, yeah, of course. We all know that. So, I mean, these people are so into it. And you talk, you know, the draft 800,000 people going in. And I I happened to step on stage with Roger Goodell. It was the day before the draft, and we were doing a thing, and I whisper in his eye, I go, I don't know how you did this, but you turned the draft into a made-for-TV event, and this is ridiculous.
SPEAKER_00Well, why do you think he's making $50 million a year? The NFL draft has surpassed Times Square on New Year's Eve for foot traffic in an area. Like it is incredible how it's happened. By the way, uh, the answer to the question of your friend, your chargers friend, Akeem Mesador Defensive End, University of Miami.
SPEAKER_02Canadian guy.
SPEAKER_00Another off-season edition. The NFL draft is in the books. Many camps OTAs are on the docket. It seems like the dust has settled in LA after the Ty Simpson pick. We're gonna get into it with our quarterback and our receiver. That is Doug Flutie. Here is Milt Stiegel. Flutie versus Stiegel is powered by Ozun. Fellas, it is May, and we're talking football. I I don't know when this happened, that the NFL became a 365-day a year league, but it's become a 365-day a year league.
SPEAKER_03It's it's it's it's it's every day something is happening. It's it's free agency, it's the draft, it's it's Jerry Jones, it's it's it's always something, and that's the way they want to keep it. They want you to have the NFL on your mind all year long. So once it finally gets going, you're like, I couldn't wait for this. I was I was so excited. So uh they're doing a great job. They they have a great marketing machine, and I mean it works, it keeps us all on AHR year long, and we're all excited about what's gonna happen tomorrow. And that's the way they want it.
SPEAKER_01I think I've said this before. When I when I started playing in the NFL in the late 80s, it was one three-day mini camp. Show up in your underwear, run around the field to a little everybody's still alive, we'll see a training camp, and now it's nonstop, and people make a big deal out of oh, a guy missed a workout, a guy wasn't there on Wednesday, and this and that. It's like, you gotta be kidding me. It's like we're talking about practice, yeah. And I my my theory on all this is that coaches, especially having the players around during the offseason, coaches can't be coaches unless the players are there, so they're bored, they got nothing going on. They get players here, they do the other thing is um I was in Pittsburgh, you know, how much I hate the draft. Yes, yes, there was over 800,000 people who showed up.
SPEAKER_03It was stupid, over 800,000 people.
SPEAKER_01I'm on a plane going to Pittsburgh, and I hear this guy behind me go, You're Doug Floody. I go, Yeah, yeah. Who are we gonna pit? Who are we gonna take? I go, I go, Who's we? And I turn around, he's he's head to toe San Diego Chargers gear, right? And I go to the former teams, yeah, and I look at him, I go, I go, Well, who do you think? And he's like, Well, obviously, we got to get a guard. I go, obviously, yeah, of course, we all know that. So, I mean, these people are so into it, and you talk, you know, the draft, 800,000 people going in. And I I happened to step on stage with Roger Goodell that it was the day before the draft, and we were doing a thing, and I whisper in his, I go, I don't know how you did this, but you turned the draft into a made-for-TV event, and this is ridiculous.
SPEAKER_00Well, why do you think he's making $50 million a year? The NFL draft has surpassed Times Square on New Year's Eve for foot traffic in an area. Like it is incredible how it's happened. By the way, uh, the answer to the question of your friend, your chargers friend, Akeem Mesidore, Defensive End, University of Miami. Canadian guy. Yeah, Ottawa guy, who is 25 years old, which I now find this kind of element in a transfer portal NIL world so fascinating. It's not 21, 22 year olds necessarily coming in NFL buildings now. It's dudes who have money, it's dudes who are in their mid-20s. I wonder how much that changes the dynamic in a locker room, how in a meeting room, when you have when you have you know rookies, air quote rookies coming in in their mid-20s with some additional IQ from being, you know, playing extra college football and a little bit of financial security. How how do you two feel that may kind of change things, if at all, when they come into a pro building? You know what?
SPEAKER_03I I don't think it changes anything. And and I say that because I mean, especially the guys who are drafted early, they they would have gotten money regardless. So they would have once the moment they declare for the draft, a lot of times their agents are giving them money because they know they're gonna get it back. So I don't I don't think it changes much. Uh, you're still dealing with some some guys who are gonna come in and and and bust their butt and guys who aren't. Let's be honest. You have some guys who come in and they just they just settle, they think they made it. And that's a big reason why uh you have a lot of guys who are drafted early and they become bust because they don't put in the work. So I don't think it changes anything. Uh yes, you would want a guy who comes in who's uh who's seasoned, as you mentioned, 25 years old, who's able to come in and contribute right away. But I don't think it's any different than the guy who's 21 who's coming out because those guys have been playing in college and they have no idea, no clue what they're getting into. So I don't think anything is going to change as far as that goes.
SPEAKER_01I just think maybe a little more maturity level coming in. Um, not as many guys that are in awe of the situation and the the money and having it in their pocket because you know they've had a taste of it already. Uh, but there are some young guys, and and I saw them on draft day that the way they carry themselves, the way I mean we talk about Pav Pavio, is it? Uh the the quarterback from yeah. I mean, just the demeanor of being immature and and all that. That there's fewer of those type of situations. That's the only only difference. The other thing is uh the career longevity is you know, a 10-year career, you're talking 35 years old instead of 31 years old. So maybe maybe some of the career records are are safe now.
SPEAKER_00Not if they start getting a seven, well, the 17 already, not if they get to 18 games. I mean, that changes everything. Yeah. I'm I'm wondering too, guys, now in a in a in a world where undrafted free agents are getting more opportunities than ever. What's what's your advice for dudes who are taking the sixth round, seventh round, or a UDFA who are coming in with not a lot of security? They're busting their butts just for a shot at the roster. Obviously, the salary cap plays a big part in this. What if if there's an undrafted free agent who's signed with a team, who's getting set to go to minicamp or an OTA for the first time, what do they need to know going into this unknown frontier of an NFL building, of the NFL business, of how to handle themselves and what to do to put themselves in the best chance to make a team? Doug, you've been through the gauntlet of it. What would you suggest?
SPEAKER_01The number one thing is don't give them a reason to cut you. Just to let them know you are serious. Wes Walker was a free agent signing for us in San Diego, and we all saw his athleticism. He didn't get a snap in OTAs. He didn't get a snap in mini camps. He just was camp legged. He was a guy over here, and we all saw his athleticism, what he could do. And he just kept, you know, taking his mental reps, being ready, being ready. They were going to cut him after the first preseason game. Instead, he got in for the last two, and uh, Dave Dickinson was his quarterback. He's in the last two minutes of the game, catches four or five balls, and returns a punt for a touchdown. They got to keep him another week. So when your opportunity shows, whether it's a rep in practice or if it waits as long as that's you have to mentally prepare harder than the other guys.
SPEAKER_03Well, I I know this firsthand, being a free agent, and this is when they had 12 rounds. And I asked a receiver coach, a guy named Richard Williams, and asking the first day, what's going to give me the best opportunity to make this team? He said two things. Uh uh be in the best shape possible. I mean, I'm always in great shape, so that wasn't a problem. But he says, No, every single uh every single route on every single player, uh every single skill position. So I knew what every single skill position was doing on every single route. So if someone went down, if they needed to replace someone, I could go in. I knew whatever what the running back had, I knew what the tight end had, I knew what all, you know, whatever receiver was in, I knew every single uh position on every single uh passing play. So that allowed me to replace guys if someone was Nick, if a veteran was taking a veteran day, I was able to step in. And that impressed the coaches. I did that in practice because a lot of people think you make the team in the game. You only get so many opportunities in the game. You got to show them that you can do it in practice. When they see that on a consistent basis, that's when they give you an opportunity. So that's the best advice I could give to guys. No more than what you need to know, and and and try to stay healthy as possible, but no more than what you need to know. So if they need someone to fit in there, uh you're able to do it.
SPEAKER_00You know, it's amazing, it's a multi-billion dollar enterprise. And you know, I've been following the Vikings my whole life. Adam Thielen ends up playing 13 years in the NFL as an undrafted free agent, and he made a bunch of Pro Bowls and he made a bunch of money. But Thielen, the only reason he got an opportunity to even go to a minicamp and a training camp is because the Vikes back in the day had training camp at Mankato State, which is where he went. They were saving on a plane ticket, and so here you have these franchises worth six, seven, eight billion dollars. And yet, and and and Thielen's point was I didn't drop a ball, I knew I couldn't drop a ball, I knew I couldn't have an assignment bust, and as Milt just pointed out, whenever they slotted me anywhere on the field, I knew I had to go there and perform. And that's for the guys, you know, sixth, seventh round undrafted free agents. Doug, I now wonder about Ty Simpson, you know, 13th overall pick. Comes in. The Rams wanted him. They put on an act thinking they were trying to show Matthew Stafford respect the night of the draft when they announced the pick. But now Ty Simpson comes in, and everybody knows he's here to be Stafford's heir apparent. What's the quarterback room like now with Stafford and Simpson and everybody else? Hold on, Doug.
SPEAKER_03Before Doug gets gone, I just want to say one quick thing. The Rams didn't want him, the GM less knee. That's who wanted him. That's I'll get on to that, but go ahead, Doug. I just wanted to mention that.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Yeah, and that had there's a power struggle sometimes. And you know, whether whether you go back to Aaron Rodgers and the draft of Jordan Love, he you know, Aaron Rodgers would have loved to have had another big weapon at receiver to go get it one more time. And you're looking at a Rams team that was so close last year, looked great, and had an opportunity, that's you know, do the same, you know, same thinking. I would think you're going after one more skilled guy, one more, maybe a weak spot in the offense, wherever it might have been to elevate this team one more notch. Because Matthew Stafford is going nowhere. He's 38 years old. I played till I was 43. These quarterbacks now that with their nutrition and the things they're doing into their 40s, if they want. So he's got three to five more years if he wants it, the way he throws the football and his knowledge of the game. So he's not going anywhere. He's gonna sit, Ty's gonna sit the bench and watch and get ready and when the opportunity comes. But the quarterback room itself, it's not an issue. I mean, and Matthew Stafford is not threatened by this situation at all. No, he knows he's the number one. He's no he's especially coming off of last year. And he'll he'll help Ty or go bring him along just in case there's an injury. He wants that guy ready to go and be able to step in and not miss a B.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah. For me, uh and and I know the Rams were saying this was the guy they wanted. Like I mentioned, I think this was the guy Les Snee wanted. Uh, he has a relationship with with uh with uh Ty's father, Jason, who's the head coach of UT Martin. A relationship that's so strong that when Ty was thinking about coming out, they actually went and talked to uh Les and said, What should we do? And there the the there's rumors coming out that they said, Oh, don't worry about it, we're gonna draft him. So uh this wasn't the guy that Sean McVay wanted. The way he looked, he wanted a guy who was gonna help this team out next season. This team was basically one play away from going to the Super Bowl. They could have got an edge guy, they could have got another receiver, as Doug mentioned. They could have got off, they could have got anything. Ty Simpson is not gonna help this team out. Yes, he may be their quarterback of the future, he may not, but he only played 15 games in college. They've seen a small sample size. This was a weak uh draft for quarterbacks. You know, there was uh Mendoza and Ty Simpson. No one had Time Simpson going in the first round. I mean, they had maybe Arizona trading in to the end of the first round again, but no one had him. But this was some nepotism, maybe in my opinion, because Lesnead had a strong relationship with this family. So they drafted him. So I hope he plays well. I hope he has a great career. But 15 games is just not enough for me to say this is going to be my quarterback of the future.
SPEAKER_0115 games in an era where these kids have played six years of college football and bounced all over the place to start everywhere. So there's guys with a lot more experience.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and you think about Simpson's run, he finally gets one at Alabama, loses on opening day, rebounds, they get a playoff win, they get run out of the gym by Indiana. And I just wonder, guys, like, what's the balance here if you're a team like the Rams? A team like the Rams that, as Milt said, you know, a play or two away from reaching the Super Bowl, and then they go this offseason, they sign Jalen Watson as a free agent from KC, they trade with Kansas City to go get McDuffie. So you're kind of lining up to go for it while at the same time the GM's role is the best interest of the football team, which could be the long-term interest if you believe in the quarterback. Where's the balance between finding a guy and going for it? Milk, you're shaking your head.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, Lesney, he he famously wore a shirt that said F them picks. Right. It's since 2017, they've drafted once in the first round, uh, not including this past year. And that was uh uh verse in 2024. He strayed away those guys because he wanted guys who was gonna help them right away. And this is the first year he's done it, you know, in in forever. So that's why I said there's some nepotism involved. So I'm not understanding of it. I don't think Sean McVeigh is happy about it. You know, he doesn't want to have to uh coach a guy who's fresh out of college in a couple of years. You know, he wants guys, he wants to win now. He's been coaching too long, so I'm not understanding that that that they've done this. This has not been their protocol, this has not been their formula for success in years past. So I'm confused about it.
SPEAKER_01And if and if they were to have a season where things don't go their way, guys get banged up, whatever it is, and all of a sudden they're a sub-500 team this year. He's on the hot seat, right? It's it's you have what have you done for me lately? So head coaches do not think three years down the road. They're they're winning today. Their job is to win or they're gone. The GMs usually stick around through stupid mistakes and whatever, but right, right. But we're we're rebuilding, we're rebuilding. Yeah, you didn't say that to the coach when you let him go, even though he the winning coach of Buffalo, they didn't win the damn Super Bowl, so all of a sudden their coach is gone. Come on. Um, so that's that you know, coach.
SPEAKER_02Doug is still mad about that boy. Doug is still mad.
SPEAKER_01Coaches need to win today and they know it. The only the only possible upside is not that it's an upside, but if if stafford at 38 years old were to get banged up, I say as you get older, it's hard to stay healthy for 16, 18 weeks, whatever. Um, are you bringing in a guy that can can play at that level quickly and and be able to not miss a beat when he jumps in there if Stafford were to ever get banged up?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Lewis Riddick tells the story. He was around Marvin Lewis for a couple of years. I think they were in Washington together or something. And he said, Coach, you know what? I really want to get into coaching. I want to work with DBs. Riddick played in the secondary as a player. Marvin looked at him and said, Lewis, you stick on the GM path. The GM survive a lot more, a lot longer than the coaches do. Uh keep that in mind. It's wild to think it's May. The road to the NFL season is here. Ozun.net has you covered with all of the odds and the props you will need to score big from now all the way until the Super Bowl champion is crowned. Get on NFL futures and props and odds for NBA, NFL, MLB, and more. Check out Ozun socials, give them a follow, and you can be the first to find out about how you can earn up to $500 in free bonus cash to use for all of your action. Ozun.net. Well played. Well played. Mr. Steagle, well played by you this week. Um causing a stir on social media. We now live in a world where it feels like everyone's getting into the playoffs. Like we're expanding regular seasons, we're expanding playoffs. Like, I covered baseball for a long time. It used to be the hardest league to get into the postseason. Now everyone's playing in October. Um, you know, the NFL's expanding their wild cards, etc. North of the border. Last week, the Canadian Football League announced that eight of its nine teams will now qualify for the playoffs beginning in 2027. You two both had Hall of Fame careers in Canada. Milt, Doug, I'll send it over to you. Milt, let's go first because you created the storm out there and you went viral.
SPEAKER_03Yes. You know what? I'm I'm all for it. I'm all for it. I'm all for it for a couple of reasons. You think about it, and I know people are saying this this water waters down the regular season because it means nothing when eight of the nine teams make it. But you know what? It it gives every team an opportunity uh to keep playing hard. You think about it late in the season, sometimes when teams know they're out of it, they stop playing hard, the fans stop showing up. But now you have an opportunity to still get in the playoffs. And if your fan base knows that, they're gonna keep showing up, they're gonna keep supporting you because all you need to do is get in the playoffs. Because once you get in the playoffs, anything can happen. I know that firsthand. My first Great Cup in 2001, uh, the team who beat us, Calgary Stan Peters finished eight and ten that season, and they needed to beat us the last regular season game to get in. They got hot, they rolled that all the way to the Great Cup and they won it. And also another thing, these owners, and I don't know how many people know this, but there's seven of the nine teams, the owners lose money every single year, and it's been that way for a long time. They're not gonna continue doing the same thing over and over again if it's not working. So they need to see changes. This is another possible way for them to make some money, and uh so it's it's a good thing. I know a lot of people aren't excited about it, they aren't happy about it. They're they're they're used to having uh their CFL served up to them a certain way, and now it's not that way. But hey, things have to change. This need this league needs to grow. Uh, the owners want to start making some money, and this is the way they think they can do it. So let's give it a chance. Let's see what's gonna happen.
SPEAKER_01I'm sitting here, the wheels are spinning. I'm trying to figure out okay, eight out of nine teams are going. So one team gets eliminated. So they're going. That's it.
SPEAKER_03That's it.
SPEAKER_01By week, let's say it's an 18 game season. By week 10, there's four teams that already know they're going to the playoffs. By week 15, do you rest half your squad to be healthy? You know, do They start sitting guys out. I don't know. It just usually you're still going to be fighting for home field advantage. You want to play at home field. You're fighting for positioning. I get that. But I I don't I don't know what can of worms this might open, but I just I can picture guys sitting out the last couple weeks to get healthy and and going for playoffs. Eight out of nine, it it just on the surface doesn't look good. It just looks, you know, on the surface, it's like, why are we even playing? I I fully understand your point there, Milto. That CFL exists on ticket sales. That's they try to sell enough, they got to sell enough tickets to make payroll to pay expenses and get through it. And maybe this is a way to do it, you know, for for one or two more teams through the end of the year.
SPEAKER_00So, what happens to the ninth team?
SPEAKER_01Oh, they get relegated, they get like like in soccer.
SPEAKER_03They go play St. John, they they join U Sports. Yeah, they get relegated. It won't be a good look for that team who doesn't make it. It will not be a good look, especially that first year in 2027.
SPEAKER_00But you better be a first-year head coach if you're finishing ninth. Oh my goodness. Because you may not be a head coach much longer if you finish nine.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. But there's other rule changes that are coming into play this year and next year. I mean, it's just you have to evolve, you have to, you have to attract, try, try to attract a crowd that you don't have. So to do that, you have to do something different because what you've been doing hasn't been working. Yes, the league has come a long way, especially, you know, when Doug started in in early 90s, and when I started, you know, in the mid this league has come a long way, but it still has a long way to go. And as you mentioned, this league depends on fans showing up to the game. It's not like the NFL. The fan NFL don't need fans to show up because they have the TV contract, they have the streaming services. In the CFL, if the fans don't show up, it's not a league. There's nothing there. So these owners have to do something to get more money in their pocket. If I'm an owner, I don't care how much I'm worth. If I own a team and own a business and it's continuously losing money each and every year, do I want to continue owning that team? And there's not like there's a bunch of people lining up to own a CFL team. So something different has to happen.
SPEAKER_01Even when they sell, even when they sell a franchise, it's inflated numbers to appear like it was sold. CFL basically they give a franchise to the next guy, and he assumes the debt and tries to pull it out. Yeah, um, yeah. So when we relegate a team, the Calgary Dinos get to move up into the CFL.
SPEAKER_00So, like this is this is the wisdom from both of you, having spent all those years in the league and now understand the business of it. Let's rewind the clock. You're 24, 25 years old, you're a player in that locker room, and they're saying, hey, eight out of nine teams make it. Are you upset about that? Or are you happy that, hey, we got a shot no matter what? Yes, we got a shot.
SPEAKER_03We got a shot to get some extra playoff money. We got a shot. Yes, it's a shot. Now, I'm I'm I'm sure some of the teams who are the better teams aren't too happy about it because now their role gets more difficult. Where before, uh, and I hate I I mean uh interrupting. Sorry about that, Doug. The teams who were first in the west or the east, all you had to do is win one game, you're in the gray cup. That's not the case anymore. You have to win at least two games now. You have to win at loose. So the road is a little bit tougher now. There's more games, but think about it. If you're at the bottom, uh if you're the bottom two teams, you have to win three games on the road to get in. And if you're able to do that, you deserve to get in the great cup. You deserve it.
SPEAKER_01You put the right three games together, you win it all. And that's the you know, that's the way it's gonna go in the bottom line of it. But I I just that eight out of nine does not look look pretty to me.
SPEAKER_03You you know what real quicker, you what I you know what I equate this to, and it's not on the same level. I think uh what I'm about to talk about is the the greatest spectacle in in sports right now is March Madness. March Madness, you have some teams from Upper Mississippi College who get in, and they get the opportunity to play Duke or Kansas. And every now and then they'll beat one of those teams and they'll go on, and they may make it to the sweet 16, or sometimes they may make it to the final four. You don't know. That's what I'm gonna equate this to. You know, teams get hot later on in the year, and sometimes they don't get hot enough to make the playoffs, but now those teams are gonna have that opportunity where you may have a team who was hot earlier in the year. Say they started off, you know, 11 and 1 or whatever, then they go on a six-game losing streak. That team's gonna get in, but that other team that's that started off bad and went on a lose winning streak later on is gonna get in, also. So that's what I equate it to, and just give it an opportunity and give it a uh a chance, and we're gonna see how it plays out because it's gonna happen.
SPEAKER_01And it's starting fresh. Once you hit the playoffs, it's all clean slate, start fresh, anything can happen. What is going to be the worst record ever to get into the playoffs?
SPEAKER_00Five win teams will get in. Yeah. If you look back the last two, three years, the teams have finished with seven and eight wins have been, you know, five, six-win teams in an 18-game season. And it's gonna be a tough gauntlet to win. You know, if you win five out of eighteen, it's tough to then go win three in a row. But so often, it's not the best teams that win a championship, right? It's the teams who are playing. It's the teams that are healthy, maybe most importantly, and shoot the teams that get lucky too. Like those are the three things you need in any sport to make that run.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no doubt about it. And you gain confidence going into the playoffs, and all of a sudden a couple good things happen, and you're playing loose and free, and you go after it, and you know, the shot from half court goes in in a in an NCAA tournament, whatever. Yeah, you know, Milk Stiegel catches the ball with four defenders around him and runs 85 yards the wrong way for a touchdown, the wrong team. But you know, it's just your momentum is momentum is key. No doubt.
SPEAKER_03Our producer asked a question, but does a team in the NCAA with a losing record get in? It's happened because what happens is that team had a losing record during the regular season, but once they get into their their conference tournament, their conference tournament, if they win that, they're in. So it's happened before. It's happened. You just get hot at the right time.
SPEAKER_00Yep. Remember, it was a few years ago. Umbc is a 16 team, beats Virginia. First time ever a 16 beats a one. The next year Virginia wins it all. It was something bugging them in the back, guys. Uh it's the best. We do this all football season, we do this all football playoffs, and we do this in the offseason as well. Flutie versus Stiegel, powered by Ozun.net. Well played. Real quick before we go, what are the spring plans in the Flutie and Steagle household? Doug, is a little more surfing going on there in Florida?
SPEAKER_01I was out on the water this morning. It was beautiful. Um, no shark friends today, unfortunately. Yeah, it would have been nice to see a couple friends out there. Um, basically, so if you've fun golf tournaments lined up, that'll be a very good thing. Golf. Hey, people, I don't know what we've talked about on air. Milt Steagle, first time ever on a legit golf course, goes out. I teach him the Jack Nicholas theory of whenever you can use a putter, use the putter. Milk Stiegel, 75 yards off the green, putter on the fairway, rolls it to within two feet of the pin. It should have gone in. It went right by the cup, and he's unbelievable.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, well, for me, I mean, CFL is about to get going soon. So uh about to get going. Uh hopefully no one kills me for thinking that uh I love these rude changes, but hey, we're gonna have some fun. So uh CFL keeps going.
SPEAKER_01That's that that's that's un-Canadian.
SPEAKER_03That's the rude is still there, it's just not in the way.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's modified, exactly. Yep. That's Flutie, that's Steagall. It's the off season edition. We are powered by Ozun.net. I'm your host, Arash Madani. We will see you next time. We appreciate all of you for making us one of North America's fastest growing football podcasts.