Serious Outcasts with John Livia

Exclusive Interview: Ava Devine is back! Her RESURGENCE in the adult world

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0:00 | 1:05:47

Join John Livia for an exclusive interview with adult entertainer, Ava Devine.

SPEAKER_00

All right, serious outcast. We have a returned guest, the beautiful, the seductive, the intelligent, the legend, Ava Divine. What's up, Ava? How you doing?

SPEAKER_03

Thank you. What an intro.

SPEAKER_00

I try my best.

SPEAKER_03

You're charming.

SPEAKER_00

How's everything going?

SPEAKER_01

Very well.

SPEAKER_00

Good, good. You look fantastic.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_00

You're very welcome. The last time you were on, I think was three years ago.

SPEAKER_01

I know you said that. You mentioned that sweet. About three years ago.

SPEAKER_00

And when you you were on, you were retired. You were like, um, I'm not doing any more content. We're done, so on and so forth. Blah blah. And since then, you've come out of retirement like a bat out of hell, by the way.

SPEAKER_02

Yes. Oh, God, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. So my uh and what I'm gonna do is our first interview, I'm gonna put in the description so people could go and just click. We did your whole backstory back then, so I don't want to do that again. If people want to know your whole backstory, we can go back, uh, they can go back and watch the uh the original interview. But what I want to know is what made you come out of retirement.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, well, you know, I I met uh an adult film actress and uh I I was working with like some other females, and I was just I was like, God, I think I'm missing out. Like, like they were telling me stories about BBCs and all, and I was like, I'm like salivating, and I'm like and they're like, they're like then then like all these new trams are coming out, and I'm like, who's this?

SPEAKER_01

Who's and all these and then these guys are hitting me up on X Twitter at the time. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And I'm like, I'm like, hmm. I'm like, wait a second. I was like, I'm kind of bored. I'm like, I think I should uh just you know try treading lightly, not going crazy. Yeah, that was out the window. I I hit the ground running. I'm like, just going, going, going.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I had I would have to believe that once because you've been in the industry forever and everybody knows who you are, you're a huge name in the industry. And I have to believe that as soon, and correct me if I'm wrong, as soon as you decide to put out a little bit more content, people had to be hitting you up for more and more content, right? Like, I mean, like major uh uh production studios and whatnot.

SPEAKER_03

Well, somewhat. Um, really, my goal wasn't to like shoot for a lot of production companies. My goal was because now only family oh, sorry.

SPEAKER_00

No, you're allowed to say it.

SPEAKER_03

You're allowed to I try and watch my P's and Q's, you know.

SPEAKER_00

That's all right.

SPEAKER_03

Editing sucks, but um so yeah. So since OF, you know, has taken um such such a uh you know, a is such a big ordeal in my life, I figured like, okay, let me start having some really interesting content and collabs. And um, you know, honestly, I felt like that that time that I took off was necessary and needed, much needed at the moment. But I really felt like my creativity and my um sexual expression was very dimmed. And and it served its purpose. But the minute I I came back out of retirement, I mean, my creative juices, literally, juices started flowing everywhere. And I'm like, oh my God, and and like these ideas and and and like and I'm so mad at that. I'm like, oh my God, I uh like with everybody, you know. So so it was a really, really fun ride and and it still is. And um it just so so my my decision was not so much for the production companies, which which I I don't mind. I'm not against. I did join a uh uh modeling agency that you know, a production agency or whatever it's called, but um, but I uh I'm a lot more selective today. And um my my collabs are just something that like means something to me. Like, like it a lot, it's like my uh sexual expression and creativity like coming into fruition with other performers. And the wonderful thing is is this is what I was gonna get to, John. Um, is that everyone was so welcoming and loving towards me.

SPEAKER_00

Like that's good.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, because you know, like you gotta remember, I'm older, much older. Um, you know, I'm I'm not afraid of my age, but I'm like 52 now. So it was like yeah, so for like people, uh, the younger crowd, you know, and look, don't get me wrong, not everyone wants to shoot with me. I understand, I don't take it personally, but or or production companies, not everyone wants to shoot with me. But from the people that did want to shoot with me, was just I was just blown away. I couldn't believe how sought after and well received I was because it's like, you know, I'm I was out of the game for 10, 11 years. I thought I was irrelevant. And people are like, oh my God, I want to like young people and and and like just everyone. I'm like, wow. Yeah. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Why do you think there are certain people that didn't want to shoot you? I don't understand that. Because there's a niche for everything now.

SPEAKER_03

Well, for sure, but but also like, you know, this is a career, this is a a job, this is a lot, you know, it it generates income, right? That that's why that's why we we perform, right? Because it generates income.

SPEAKER_04

Sure.

SPEAKER_03

Right? Mainly. Um, but so so if I'm not gonna, if I'm not gonna make that person money, if if their consumers, their their their fans aren't gonna they're like, you know, like so like it like I may not be for them.

SPEAKER_00

So it makes sense. It makes total exactly.

SPEAKER_03

And and like I said, this isn't a dating site. Adult films isn't like for dating. It's like we we we we make money from it, we perform, we entertain, we bring in an income. If it's not gonna make money, there's a great saying, if it doesn't make dollars, it don't make sense.

SPEAKER_00

And no, you're a hundred percent right because even in in my world, somebody contacted me that wrote a book uh recently, and because on this channel I cover a lot of um uh mafia, uh biker, adult entertainers, um, and somebody uh wrote a book about his cousin that was involved in organized crime, and we had a call, and I was like, dude, it it wouldn't make sense to me to have you on because you you know nobody knows who you are, nobody knows who your cousin is. It's it's not gonna generate views. If you if you wrote a book about John's body, yes, then it would have created views, you know. So I completely understand. Now that you put you posed it that way, that makes total sense.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, sure. And and and I had to understand that, like, um, you know, through, like I told you, as you guys know, I'm in a 12-step program. So, like, I had a lot of resentments for a lot of uh companies that didn't want to shoot me. I had a lot of resentments towards fans that didn't want to see me, like uh, or negative comments. But I have to also understand this is a business, it's not personal. And even if it is personal, what do I care? You know, like I can go, I can go elsewhere. But the bottom line is if it's not gonna generate income for that company, that fan, that person, whatever, then there's no sense of shooting with me. So, so like I now I understand it's not a personal attack, it's a business attack. Yeah, or not not word attack, but it's a business move. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Now, when you said you were on a 12-step program, you've been clean and sober for many years now at this point, right? How many years has it been?

SPEAKER_03

Oof, it's gonna be a while. 19 years on July 29th, yeah, 2007. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Were were there anybody that would didn't collab with you because of some problems you had in the past and they didn't want to revisit that?

SPEAKER_03

Um, no, but I think that there's some uh people I'm assuming I'm I'm I I can't uh they never actually said it. Yeah, I'm assuming that did not that does not want to shoot with me because of my my present sobriety today. Uh some people like to party or get whatever. I understand. And and like and and I I or they may feel uncomfortable because I do not partake in that or I don't want to be around that. Like, like uh yeah, so so I do I do it now. It's like I I don't I don't mess with that, like right, you know, like I I just can't be work with people that are intoxicated.

SPEAKER_00

It's just yeah, if if you're yeah, you do what you want, but I can't do that because it's it's it's too painful for me because of my past. Fully unit. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03

And I'm not a judge or the juror or or reformer, but for me, I I choose not, I'm not desperate to be in those situations where I have to be around that. I don't have to be around that. I choose not to be around that. It's healthier for me, and it's just safer for me if I don't, and that's just my choice. That's my boundary.

SPEAKER_00

No, and and that is an absolute 100% boundary that shouldn't be crossed. Yeah, because you've been doing so good, uh, and your career has taken off. There's no reason to even give it a chance for that to come back, right? There's no way even to even gamble it. So I fully understand.

SPEAKER_03

And and and and at the same time, I understand that person who wants to be around a sober, boring wet blanket when they want to party it up. Like I get it. I used to, I when I was using and partying, I don't want to be around sober people.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, right, right, right, right, right, right. Yeah, right, right. Now, have you noticed that it's the younger crowd that's more like this, or it doesn't really matter?

SPEAKER_03

Um, it doesn't really matter, but but mainly younger. But you put them in uh I mean it like the disease doesn't discriminate. Drug addiction, alcoholism doesn't discriminate. So I see it young, older, whatever, but I just don't want to partake in it.

SPEAKER_00

Has anybody have has has have anybody in the industry, especially young women or women in general, have come to you uh for mentoring in a situation like that? And have you had to tell them, hey, look, look, I know what you're going through, but if you continue this route, you it's not gonna end well. Have you had that had that experience?

SPEAKER_03

Um, yes. Uh what I've learned is I can't control anybody, and I and I can't give out my advice because my advice gets me jails, institutions, and death too. So, but I will give you my experience, strength, and hope. I will show you what works for me, and you could either take it or not. And if you don't take it, I'm not gonna be mad at you. I just probably can't really like hang out with you, right? But but you know, that's your journey, that's their journey. And and and who who am I? I'm not God, I'm not powerful enough to save you or or you know, or think, or think I know what's right for you because I don't. I don't even know what's right for me. Like, how many I don't even know how to live my life. How am I gonna tell you how to live yours?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I got enough problems to worry about.

SPEAKER_03

Exactly. So it's like it's like, so you know, I I can't say I I could just say for me, you know, drugs and alcohol took me down. Yeah, yeah, you know, so but but maybe maybe it'll work for you. Maybe you can win academy awards and have billions of dollars with champagne in your hand and and cocaine in the other hand, and and cheering everyone cheering you on. It didn't work for me, it won't work for me. It has not never worked for me. Uh the fellowship is made of people that it didn't work for, so I don't know. Maybe it maybe it'll work for you. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00

Well, um I, for one, am very happy that you're clean and sober and doing well. Because I've been I've been honestly before I started the podcast, you were one of my favorites from a long time ago. So I'm very happy that uh you're doing well.

SPEAKER_03

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00

When you started doing content, because I think I don't remember the sites that you were on, but you were you were back on the main sites, the the the Naughty America and the Brazors and whatnot.

SPEAKER_03

They're great, yeah. Not browsers, yeah, but no, okay, right.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I don't remember exactly, but you were on the bigger ones. Has that helped your OnlyFans? Has that created interest for people to look for you up on OnlyFans?

SPEAKER_03

You know what? I'm I'm not really certain because there's no uh gauge or links that like I've posted from there to there to like to like uh decipher where it's coming from. I just know that now that I'm shooting with more uh people and doing different things creatively and sexually, my fans are very much more happier and they're I'm uh gaining more fans. And but I will tell you this too. The the the crazy thing is that now that I have my podcast, um people are like they're like, I've never I don't know who you are, and I just discovered you on the podcast. And like there, there's a gay man that said, Ava, I don't know who you are. I just discovered you from the podcast, and I love you. And I'm like, I'm like, I love you. And then and then somebody else was like, I don't even know who you are, but I love your vibe. I'm like, What's the podcast?

SPEAKER_00

What's the name of the podcast?

SPEAKER_03

Um, it's called Ava Divine's Bad Advice.

SPEAKER_00

Ava Divine's Bad Advice. Uh I'll make sure that that and it's on YouTube?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, I'll make sure that that is in the description code so people can see Ava Divine's Bad Advice. You know what's funny is that on my bodybuilding channel, I'm very good friends with Lee Priest. I don't know if you know who that is, but Lee Priest was one of the greatest bodybuilders that ever lived. Okay, in the bodybuilding world, he's a legend. And what's funny is that he has kind of reignited his career by doing a lot of uh bodybuilding content with younger fitness content creators, like the Trent twins and like Larry Wheels. And people go up to him and go, Oh, I saw you on that video with the Trent twins. I saw you on that video with Larry Wheels. And he's like, he's like, Yeah, I guess so. But like like in the early 2000s, the guy was winning bodybuilding show after bodybuilding show after bodybuilding show. He was a he is a legend, and so it's the same thing. It's like people come up to him and go, I don't know who you are, but I love you, you're great, you know?

SPEAKER_03

It's the same kind of situation, but it all works out, right? Like, like, because I don't know, I just I just feel like it always works out somehow.

SPEAKER_00

It does, and but somebody like yourself who has this wherewithal uh to keep going, to keep motivated, and to keep helping yourself, and then doing content where you're helping others, whether it's on your OF or whether it's on your podcast, it's gonna come back. Good things are gonna come back, and it's the same thing that's happening to my friend is he's he has this amazing following now again. Um because this is this is what uh this is what he does.

SPEAKER_03

But yeah, and and and it's not so much me helping them, it's like we we all help like it's really team effort. Good point because don't forget, like my ideas are wack-a-doodle nuts, right? And then but some of these people are like great idea, down.

SPEAKER_01

I love it. And I'm like, really?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and like like there's this one guy, um Adam Lee, and um like he's such a cute little actor, and I'm always like, Adam, play, would you do these weird reels with me and stuff like that?

SPEAKER_01

And like he's like, sure. And he like we love it, and like we just have so much fun.

SPEAKER_03

So it's like it's like truly a team effort. Like, there's no one better or less than or more famous or not. It's like it's when it like like in a recipe, right? Yeah, you gotta put salt, you gotta put sugar, you gotta put pepper, you gotta right, and and then right, there's not there's not one ingredient that's just so much better, or even if it is, right? But it all comes out to being chef's kiss.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, good, good. Yeah, like it's a it's like a unit, and you're you're working together as a unit.

SPEAKER_03

Totally, totally.

SPEAKER_00

So now, are there things that you won't do now as opposed to before you were retired, um, that you used to do, and now you're like, nah, I stay away from that now.

SPEAKER_03

Um, probably not. Okay, but I do, I I am starting or I've been starting to require a seven-day uh talent testing test. So that's my new requirement. Like um I I ask for whoever I shoot with to get uh a seven-day uh test, and and it has to be uh no older than seven days. And if it's eight days, I won't work with them.

SPEAKER_00

So explain what that is. What's the seven-day test?

SPEAKER_03

So uh so what we do is is the industry goes and gets tested at two facilities or three, but let's just say two for now that I'm very aware of clear and uh talent testing. Um we have to do a full panel, swabs, et cetera, et cetera. Uh and uh in um the industry, the film industry's guidelines, it's a 14-day test.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_03

So now I a lot can happen in 14 days. A lot can happen in seven days, a lot can happen in one day, but for my own well-being, I feel more confident, more safer. Um, I feel safer with uh seven-day tests. And and and it could be a little bit expensive for some, but honestly, for me, you can't put a uh price tag on health. And I feel that that's a substantial amount of time because say if it's the weekend or whatever, and the and talent testing is closed, at least you can go on Monday and you know, whatever. So I I just like a seven-day test, and that's that's my new requirement when I work with.

SPEAKER_00

What do they test for?

SPEAKER_03

Uh they test for chlamydia, gonorrhea, HIV, uh, two types of HIV tests. I think hep C. Um syphilis, they test for MGen, they test for uh rectal swabs of and throat swabs of gonorrhea, chlamydia. Um they do urine samples of gonorrhea and chlamydia. Uh so so I uh I think that's pretty much the basics.

SPEAKER_00

But but yeah. Have you ever had somebody come back and there was a no, no, go, sorry. I know you went for the test, but you tested positive for A, B, and C.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, of course, sure, sure.

SPEAKER_00

It happens, yeah. Oh, that's gotta be difficult. How do they deal with it? Because do they even know that they have these that they're positive for these diseases?

SPEAKER_03

Well, sometimes we don't, but that's why the testing is very, is very important. And I mean, look, it's uh everything's 50-50, right? There's always it's always uh a 50-50 chance of you know winning and losing. You drive the car, 50% you're gonna get to the uh uh destination safely, 50% can get hit, or a ticket, or what like there's always there's always room for some kind of complications if if you play that way, right? You know, and that and that's that's the thing. That's the world, that's that's the livelihood, that's the job that I'm in. So it's like but uh I I want to be my own advocate, right? And and try and try and do do to the best of my ability as be as safe safe as I can.

SPEAKER_00

Sure. Now, before you were retired, were there mandatory tests or was it not as uh not as strict as this this seven-day test is?

SPEAKER_03

Well, well, actually, it's it was hilarious because uh Christian Chibletz and I talked about there was the 30-day test. Uh we used to go to a place called AIM or talent testing, and it was 30-day test. Then now they switched it to 14 days. But now, you know, and some companies do do seven-day tests as well. Um some performers request that as well. So so I I just feel it's just it's better guidelines for me. Uh and I just feel I feel a little bit more confident with that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, 30 days, a lot can happen in 30 days.

SPEAKER_03

But look, back in the day, that's what you know, and then like all these things start popping up, and we're like, wow, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

What's funny is I I interviewed uh Ginger Lynn uh probably around the same time I interviewed you, and she told the story about how uh she had did a scene with John Holmes and not knowing that he was HIV positive, that he had full-blown AIDS, and then when she found out she was scared shitless, and she ran to the doctor to get tested. Because back then they didn't even know what that was. You know, it was brand new, and it was it was so scary, but thank God she was fine. But yeah. So now tell me what have been the significant changes in the industry that you've noticed since you retired to to today?

SPEAKER_03

Um, well, I mean, I I would say that uh one of the things is um content creators are different from adult film industry people, you know, um, or the corn stars, you know. Uh and like like how do you define corn star versus content creator? I feel uh people that shoot for production companies could be classified as corn stars.

SPEAKER_00

I gotcha, okay.

SPEAKER_03

And um people that so being being a corn star, and I'm just I'm so YouTube friendly now.

SPEAKER_00

No, it's fine, it's perfect. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I it's just because editing costs. So yeah, sorry why it's my P's and Q's, I get it. Um, so uh I feel like uh corn stars uh have a professionalism about them that not all, uh but I'm just saying generally speaking, uh we have a we have a professionalism about ourselves that is different from uh A content creator that twerks and twerks at the you know uh pool party and makes millions, which uh which is great, good for you. But I'm just saying, like, like uh, you know, we're taught or I'm taught, I'm taught, I'll speak for myself. I'm taught to bring a variety of clothing, to show up in hair and makeup, to prep, prepare if you're gonna do backdoor or whatever.

SPEAKER_00

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_03

Um, also, you know, be on time because there's locations involved, there's camera people involved, there's makeup artists involved, there's a lot at stake. And uh it's not just uh, you know, 5 p.m. I just got back, you know, just woke up from being at the club the night before, and now we're gonna jiggle our butts and go live on OnlyFans or OF, you know?

SPEAKER_00

So it's like that is an excellent question. I did not realize that. Because you're right, there is a big difference with somebody that is in your industry and and acts as a professional, and and the the first person that popped up in my head when you said that was Adam 22 and his wife.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, right?

SPEAKER_00

They just kind of went on a whim. Did she just right? Um, they just went on a whim, they picked some guy and sold the content, and because he's Adam 22, and this is his wife, they've made a fortune, right? Is there animosity because it's like, wait a minute, you didn't put your time in, and then all of a sudden you're somebody's uh husband who has uh clout and you decide, oh, I'm just gonna do this scene and make a ton of money. Whereas somebody like you puts their time, effort, professionalism into it. Is there any animosity between the two worlds?

SPEAKER_03

I mean, I don't think so. I think that that's a little heavy of a word, but I mean, there there's a difference. And I can't speak for everyone. I'm just saying the people I've encountered that are content creators, they're not uh really fully responsible with the proper testing, or they complain about the seven-day test or whatever that you know, they they're not whatever. They they don't want to spend the money to get another test. I'm like, that's your business. They don't want to get hair and makeup done, you know, whatever, and or they don't bring proper outfits at all, ever, or they want to be late and you know, or not show up and stuff. But but then again, I've dealt with many corn stars that do the same thing too.

SPEAKER_04

Right.

SPEAKER_03

So I can't really all I can say is there is somewhat of a difference that I've seen, that I've experienced.

SPEAKER_00

So now at your level, right? Uh, because you are at basically top tier, right?

SPEAKER_04

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00

Are there people that you trust working with because you know they're gonna get the seven-day test, they're gonna be on time, they're gonna be professional, they know what they're doing. And you know what? I'd rather work with them than some new content creator that has no clue, even though it could bring plenty of views and plenty of money.

SPEAKER_03

Um, well, sometimes, yes. I I rather, like I said, I'm I'm able to be a little bit more selective. And and it's not because I'm I'm a badass or I'm I'm you know who I am. It's just because for me, right now, I'm not coming from a place of desperation, which and I'm and I'm not talking because I'm Ava Divine. I'm just saying I'm not in a desperate place. For me, from my experience, whenever I'm desperate, I do really foul, careless things and I get in trouble.

SPEAKER_00

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

So today let's face it, you are top tier. So I mean that that that goes without saying. You are you are top tier in this in this industry, okay? Anyone who's anybody in the industry or is a fan knows who you are. So thank you. So the there I would I would only expect that whoever works with you has to work within the same uh at the same level as you. I I it would only be an expectation. It's like anything else, right? It's like um if uh whatever, like if I if you're a bodybuilder uh and you need to train for a bodybuilding contest, you're not gonna grab the guy that never did a contest before and doesn't know what he's doing to train with. You're gonna grab the other guy who knows what he's doing. So that's why I I I I I understand you're being modest, but I'm saying you're top tier, and those things I think are should be expected. I think it's a good thing that they're that it it you should expect it.

SPEAKER_03

Well, I mean, look, what are expectations or premeditated resentments? Even even some of these people, right? Even these some of these people that are top tier or whatever, they've counseled last minute. I'm like, what or like or like what you know, crazy stuff? And look, I'm I'm guilty. I'm I'm guilty too. I've done some last minute crap too, you know, like whatever. But um, generally speaking, you know, I try not to, and I do try to be selective and and look, accidents happen, right? Things happen, right? Like I said, driving, you're in the car, or can you get to the destination safely, or do you get into an accident? Do you get pulled over? I don't know. But I'm just saying there there are times where things don't go as planned, but good good enough, like like I'm I'm quick enough to go, okay. Here's my backup plan. I'll go live, I'll shoot some uh socials, I'm already dressed and ready. Like I'm not gonna make it a wash, or maybe I really am tired. I'm just gonna kick back and watch Netflix and hair and makeup.

SPEAKER_04

Right.

SPEAKER_03

You know, but but right, everything happens for a reason. And and honestly, like I say, it's it's it's on God's time. So if it's happening, it's happening. If not, chalk it up and you know, try again.

SPEAKER_00

So uh the majority of the content you make, uh, do you work for yourself and create your own schedule? Or it's oh, so it's not like you have uh, you know, a contract like it was in the old days where you have to start so not at all.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. So what I I I like to have a schedule, I like to have a regimen. So like every Tuesday I like to shoot my custom videos for my fans. I dedicate that day for custom videos. I have a hair and makeup artist ready to go. That's why I'm like, okay, let's do our podcast. I'll be in hair and makeup. It's Tuesday. I did my customs earlier. I did a little bit of social media, so I'm prepared, you know? And and then and then I'll try and schedule some collabs maybe once a week or sometimes twice a week, or sometimes if someone's in town, then we'll like I'll shoot like almost every other day or every day.

SPEAKER_00

Right, right, okay.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, but but I like to have a schedule.

SPEAKER_00

Because back in the day there was a lot of uh contracts with with production studios. Is that accurate?

SPEAKER_03

Yes, most definitely, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, and was it did is what's the good and the bad? Uh you have obviously you have to shell out more of money now um because you're working for yourself, but but I would assume that you make more money because you're working for yourself.

SPEAKER_03

Most definitely, most definitely. Now, like I've like I've said before, I've never I've never uh turned my nose against uh production companies or look down at comp production companies, but you know, look, uh my my little social media isn't gonna compete with browsers, Naughty America, you know, whatever, right? But so it's great, it's great. They they use me and I get free marketing, right? But it's a flat fee. I don't get any royalties, I don't make money in my sleep. My OnlyFans, my my OF, my my content, my collabs, my very own stuff. I can make money while I'm sleeping. Because guess what? The guy in Europe just bought my video that I shot with Sarah J and Alex Legend, or you know, so and then and then guess what? It's mine. So I can make royalties of it off of it for however long. It's if people want to buy it.

SPEAKER_00

That's definitely a huge benefit.

SPEAKER_03

Ah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Now, today, today, if a young girl wants to get into the production company, is it one and done, or is it like uh back or or are contracts different? Like if they find like uh let's say a new talent from Instagram or from OF or something like that, and one of these larger companies like North America or Brazzers or whatever, you know, do they give them a contract uh where they have to do a certain amount of content over a period of time, or is it like basically one and done, you're a new fresh face, uh come here, we'll pay for your travel and expenses, and then you go home?

SPEAKER_03

Well, honestly, I've never been a contract girl for any any company, but from what I've heard, they they they have like, okay, so you're gonna do about uh I don't know, seven scenes a day. Um seven scenes a month for this X amount of dollars.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, okay, okay, all right, all right.

SPEAKER_03

And and you can't work for other companies, you know. I think that that's what a contract girl is, I believe.

SPEAKER_00

All right. So I would assume that they these these young film stars want to get to where you're at, where they're working for themselves and they use it as a stepping stone. Or are they just like, hey, this is the hot new thing that I'm that I'm doing right now.

SPEAKER_03

I I really don't know what's the best way to approach that for someone that's young and up and coming. I mean, I I don't know. I don't know which route would be better for them. I mean, all I know is for me, I really enjoy doing my own collabs. It's great when I work for other companies too. Like I said, I'm not I'm not looking down at them. But I honestly, I honestly love shooting my own stuff because guess what? Uh if I want to be uh daddy divine and I want to shoot with a sissy or or some muscle dude, guess what? I can call them. I don't have to wait. Right. Will Naughty America hire me for for daddy divine or kink, right? I get I get to do it. I I reach out to this guy, I reach out to the sissy, I reach out to the camera person. Are you able to film me on this day? Or can you can we can we get together and like make something fun? Right.

SPEAKER_00

So Yeah, uh it is definitely uh uh I would think that the majority of people that are in the industry would would like to get to the status that you're at where you can make your own where you can make your own um time, make your own schedule, and make money, and like you said, it's always yours, and that you're gonna make money constantly. I would think that I mean I might be wrong, but sure.

SPEAKER_03

But but then but then also shooting for production companies has has great, great uh pros too. Like they they have the hair and makeup artists, they have the camera people, right? They have the elite photography, they have the elite shoot house, they have the they have the great marketing. All you're gonna do is show up, right? Right? You're treated like royalty. A lot of these companies are very high-end, very exquisite. So, so so now now the the new girl doesn't have to call the sissy, doesn't have to call the new photographer, doesn't have to look for a place to shoot, doesn't have to fork out money.

SPEAKER_00

So even when you go to the uh expos, same thing. You have to fork out money, that's all yours.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Mostly, unless, unless you sign for a company at the expos.

SPEAKER_00

When you were before you retired, were you did you ever work for a company that you were like, I am never working for these fucking people again. This was no. Really?

SPEAKER_03

You know what? I'll tell you what, John. I've had uh honestly, like really wonderful experiences in the adult industry.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, that's good. That's good time.

SPEAKER_03

I've really like the the I've nah, I I can't say I've had bad experiences. The only bad experience, if I've if I ever had anything, was my perception of that I'm not good enough because I wasn't stick figure in the society or whatever, or I was angry because the companies didn't want to shoot me, right? But but honestly, where does it fall? On me. It's my perception, right? So so have I had any bad experiences for any companies? Not at all. They're all great.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's it's very respectful that you're accountable. That's that's for sure. That actually that actually makes me admire you even more. Now, uh, when you first started uh in the industry, uh they they there used to be like a group of guys, five or six guys, that were reliable and they were in every movie, every content, so on and so forth. Now you see there are so many different guys. I mean, it's like they could literally pick anybody. Um explain what you're more comfortable with and why that is. I mean, I'm assuming it's that way because now you have Viagra, Cialis, the Trimix injection, like you can kind of you know, uh do it in a hotel room, like you're content creators. But back then you had like five or six guys, those are the guys that were reliable, those are the guys you worked with. What is the what is the pros and cons for each?

SPEAKER_03

Well, honestly, there's a saying it says cream rises to the top. People that are successful will shine. There's no forcing, there's no word of mouth. People that are successful, that are especially male performers, they will shine. And guess what? I seek them out. I want to work with the Kieran Lee's. I want to work with the big dick nicks. I want to work with, you know, these guys that are reliable, that can keep wood, uh understand how to open you up for the camera. Um professional shows up clean, ready to fill up paperwork, have their current tests ready, uh, have their app outfits, uh just like and and like you you can't fake that, you can't pretend, you can't buy that, you can't mimic it. You either have it or you don't.

SPEAKER_04

Okay.

SPEAKER_03

You know, you could try your hardest, you could do 20 shots at TriMex, but if you don't have it in you, it will fail, it will flop. Okay. So it the the people that that are like outstanding performers, the male performers, they they know they know everyone knows who they are, they know who they are.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, they're the professionals and they get the job done, right?

SPEAKER_03

For sure. Most definitely.

SPEAKER_00

Now, when guys, when guys watch, you know, corn, basically it's for the most part, it is a just a takeaway from reality, right? They just kind of watch it, they don't think of their responsibilities, it takes them, takes them away for a little bit, they get off, and so on, so forth. And most of the time, these guys look at the male performers and they go, Wow, that's gotta be amazing. He gets to sleep with uh Avid Devine, he gets to sleep with Sarah J. Do the guys in actuality enjoy it as much as the as much as the onlooker believes, or is it just a job to them?

SPEAKER_03

I mean, in all fairness, I can't speak for them, but realistically, in reality, is it is a job. And and like I said, it's not a dirt dating service, and a lot of today's um you know, protocols or or what's the proper word with a lot of today's uh you know rights, uh got a lot of the female uh performers don't want the guy, don't want to be fluffers for the dudes. They don't want creepy dudes, they want professionalism, they want the men to show up, or or I'll speak for myself, okay? I want my male talent to show up, be ready to go, not sitting in the corner beating the meat, not fucking, not not uh trying to make out with me or or pound take me to pound town when the camera's not on. Like it's you know, like and and or not struggle, you know, like because at the end of the day, it is a job, and we all have our own separate lives when when the camera like lights cameras you know actions shuts off. Um we all uh respect one another. And um, I just feel like you know, uh, I don't know if they're desensitized, I don't know if the trimex makes them numb. I don't know. I'm just assuming, but it could, but I'm just saying, like honestly, um, you know, it is a living. And and right now in today's society, you gotta be on your best behavior or you will get called out, you will get canceled, you will get you will get uh uh alleged, you know, uh allegations thrown at you, you will get announced on social media as a rapist. Like nobody's shy about that.

SPEAKER_00

Uh tell me about it. It's it's it's it's altogether too often, too. It really is. We see it all the time.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Have you ever been with a guy that you really liked? Um, you liked working with, you know, didn't it? Was it not romantically, but you you you kind of liked him, you liked working with him, and um, you worked with him plenty of times. And this particular time, for some reason, he can't finish for whatever reason.

unknown

Sure.

SPEAKER_00

Have you ever decided have you ever took it upon yourself, like, okay, I'll I'll help?

SPEAKER_02

Most badly. Like I said, I'm a team player, I'm a team player. Okay, I'm a team player.

SPEAKER_00

Because I interviewed Brittany Andrews, and her her her answer to me was, no, I don't give a shit what they the scene's over, I'm going home.

SPEAKER_03

Well, well, sure. Look, I I understand, and and like I said, you know, it is a job, right? I'm not their girlfriends, I'm not their wives, I'm not their, you know, whatever, but I feel like I'm a team player. And and and then another thing too, like to backtrack what we were talking about earlier, it is sex. We're having sex, it's a pleasurable thing. Like, right, it's a great time. It's a party, like it's sex. So, so it is a job, yes. Is it creepy? No, it doesn't have to be. I mean, I like creepy, but like I'm saying, like, but but you know what I mean? Like, like, is it for cheap thrills? No, it's for for a product, it's right for the consumer, it's entertainment for the consumer. What did I say earlier? If it doesn't make dollars, it don't make sense. We're in it to win it. Right. Let's go. Like, let's give them a good product, let's give them a good show.

SPEAKER_00

So that so there have been times where you've been with somebody that you know well, you've worked well before, and for some reason they're struggling, and you go, okay, tell me what you want me to do, and I'll let you get alone.

SPEAKER_03

Most definitely. Sometimes they want to be left alone, sometimes they need to watch something, sometimes they want their nipple licked, sometimes they want their balls played. Whatever. I'm a team player. I can't and I will help out. Oh, so much. I'm not gonna, like I said, I don't want you to take me to Palentown if the camera's not rolling, but I'm gonna I'm gonna be as helpful as I can to the best of my ability.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, okay. Since you've come back from your retirement, are there new things you do now that you wouldn't have done or you would didn't even think you would try?

SPEAKER_02

No. But come on.

SPEAKER_00

Go ahead. So um I love it all.

SPEAKER_03

Except, except, like I said, I have I have more standards about the testing, and and I and I require whoever I shoot with, I I make it known. I say before we even agree on a date or whatever, or once after we agree, can we shoot on this date? I say, uh, just by the way, I require a seven-day max test. So so that's my only difference today.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So, and you could clean it up. Um just uh it's just an interesting question. You can you don't have to get into you know the the details, you could just clean it up for YouTube. What has been some of the things that maybe are more fetish aligned or for lack of a better term, uh strange to the ordinary consumer that you do, that you enjoy, that you've done in your career.

SPEAKER_03

See, I it's crazy because it's everything's such the norm for me. Like my girlfriends, like you are so desensitized. I'm like, what?

SPEAKER_00

I'm like, So throw some some throw some out at me. It'll be fun. Throw something out at me, and I'll tell you whether uh uh as as for the regular consumer, if that would be a little different or not, for lack of a better term.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, well, um a lot of men want to experience other men with me. Like, I'm not gonna get too explicit or detailed, but like they want to.

SPEAKER_00

That's not that's not I mean more than two guys, two guys and a girl, okay.

SPEAKER_03

You know, no, they want to they want to suck, you know, each other. Yeah, they're they're like, Will you, you know, will you help me be like kind of like forced bisexuality? I'm like, of course. They're like, they're like, yeah, so so I have many men that call me and they're like, Ava, and I gotta go, oh honey, you're you're my bisexual boyfriend, and I'm gonna bring you around and we're gonna get all these men and we're gonna do gangbangs. And then guess what? You're gonna eat me down there while the other one's pumping my back door. And if it slips out, if it slips out and I take your head and make you fin it, clean that off, you're gonna love it. And they're like, Oh my god, I love it. You know.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think too, I there's probably more guys that admit to that, let me rephrase that. There's probably more guys that really do enjoy that that won't admit to it.

SPEAKER_03

Well, yeah, well, the the wonderful thing is is that people do uh I I can't really flatter myself, but people do feel safe with me with with because I'm so experienced. But at the same time, men are not shy. Men are not shy. When their balls are full, they are not shy.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, no, you happen to be right. I I'm I'm I'm uh unfortunately. Fortunately or fortunately, depending on how you look at it, I'm all about women.

SPEAKER_03

Um that's okay.

SPEAKER_00

I'm all about the women.

SPEAKER_03

But you know, everything's okay. But but those two, when I was on the dating apps, when I was doing some dating apps, a lot of the men would say, I would love for you to peg me, or I'd love for you in a trans to peg me. And and I'm like, or they or some would go, oh, Ava, I'm 90% dominant, but I'm 10% sub. But look at my butt shot. Would you peg me? And I'm like, honey, yeah. I'm like, if I'm gonna peg you, you are 90% bottom. Like you're not you're 90% submissive to me now.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

On our first date, like, let's build first. Like, yeah, let's build a foundation before I peg you.

SPEAKER_00

Baby steps, pal.

SPEAKER_03

Because now I see you as my bottom.

SPEAKER_00

Like, yeah, that's that's yeah. Okay. So what what besides that, are there anything else that you could throw out at me and I could tell you that would be odd to a particular consumer or not?

SPEAKER_03

Let's see. I mean, like I said, I'm so desensitized. Everything's so normal to me.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, I'll I'll throw I'll throw something out to you. Okay, all right. Um, let me try to, I'm gonna try to clean it up, okay?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, how can I do it my my uh language?

SPEAKER_00

Okay, all right, I'll try to clean it up myself.

SPEAKER_03

How can I do?

SPEAKER_00

Are you fine? Okay, oh you're you're absolutely fine. Yeah, no problems. Um, you're with another couple, he finishes, you go down on her.

SPEAKER_03

Sure. No, that's so uh that that but like they're they're they're the guys are asking me if if we if we're doing a threesome and the dude finishes you, can I go down on you?

SPEAKER_01

Sorry, that's give me a second.

SPEAKER_03

That is it's good.

SPEAKER_00

No, no, such a whim.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, me.

SPEAKER_00

All right, no, no, no. I'm saying if you shot content, is that something you've done?

SPEAKER_03

Oh, of course. Out of the back door, like something fart to come out.

SPEAKER_00

I'm like okay, okay, okay, okay. All right. Um uh I believe they call it water sports, sure. Okay, for people who don't know who water sports is to clean it up, that is urination.

SPEAKER_03

Sure.

SPEAKER_00

Now, on yourself or on somebody else.

SPEAKER_03

Oh my god. Back in the early 2000s, it was so like so popular.

SPEAKER_00

Really?

SPEAKER_03

Oh my god. It was uh what's his name? What's his name? The Max Hardcore. That's all he did. That was then then there was all these uh yeah, it was very, very popular. Like, even I met there's this Hungarian guy I met that was an adult films actor. That yeah, he he was like from Hungary or wherever he was from, Czechoslovakia or whatever. And he's like, he's like, Eva, I don't understand this. I was like, what, honey? He's like, you Americans are so uptight. I'm like, really, tell me more. He's like, I go to the disco tap and I meet a girl, and we go home, and I golden shower in her mouth. No problem. I'm like, okay. You know, so I guess Americans are uptight, but no, all right.

SPEAKER_00

That might be strange to the ordinary consumer, but I understand that there is a niche for everything. I get it.

SPEAKER_03

Sure, most definitely, most definitely, and it can be fun in in the right, you know, right, right uh mind frame.

SPEAKER_00

Now what about what about the um the opposite? Not water sports, but I don't know what you want to call it, poop play. Yeah. You've now you on somebody else or somebody else on you? Both.

SPEAKER_03

You know who you're talking about. Yeah, of course. You know who you're talking about.

SPEAKER_00

I'm sorry, Ava, but the only content I I watch of you are your boobs and you with another girl.

SPEAKER_01

You can't put that on a this isn't two girls and a cop.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Uh I'm trying, it's so funny. Uh um oh, okay. Here's a weird one.

SPEAKER_03

Oh my shock me.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, I know, really impossible, right? Um, here's one. Uh, what do they want to call it? Uh uh sounding. I'm trying to think of what is it?

SPEAKER_03

Sounding.

SPEAKER_00

What is that?

SPEAKER_03

With the metal rods in the pee hall.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, yeah, no. Okay.

SPEAKER_03

And then you tap it and it vibrates.

SPEAKER_00

Holy shit.

SPEAKER_03

What? Well, they do it to women.

SPEAKER_00

You're giving me an education today. Uh no, I wasn't gonna say that. I was gonna I was gonna say, uh, what do they call it when um uh like uh you know uh the girl has that time of the month for the girl and they just just restoration, right? Well, I there's there's a term for that actual fetish, isn't there? I forgot what they call it. Mur murder by wings, what what is it? Red, maybe. Um all right. Now, same thing. You on somebody else, somebody else on you.

SPEAKER_01

I'm sorry, I just bothered yes, just let's look at letter D, all of the above.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, all right, all right. I got you, okay, okay. Yeah, all right. I'm running, I'm I'm I'm limited, I'm running out of shit. Jesus Christ. Okay.

SPEAKER_01

It's okay.

SPEAKER_00

All right. What do you have planned for the future as far as uh expos, content creation, uh any new um any new business ventures that you're doing?

SPEAKER_03

I do. I do. I'm really working on my podcast. I am trying to revamp it and like kind of turn it more into more of an educational uh advocacy type of uh podcast. I've also uh got a channel on OFTV. So that's about yeah, yeah. So so for my podcast, um, I really want uh my goal is to have my fans see me in a different light. Um because there's many dimensions to Ava, right? But we all don't get to see that. And and I'm not, I there's no way I'll ever be ashamed of you know Ava, the adult film star. You know, like like that is who I am. It's in my veins. It's like it's who I am, it's my being, it's me, right? Yeah, but I do feel like I have I can have a good conversation. Um I'm great at conversing. Um, I also walked through many, many situations, and I'm still standing and I feel like um I'm pretty level headed. So I want to bring to not really level headed, but some but tiny bit. But so I want to kind of bring to uh I want to bring a different dimension of Ava to the table for the fans to see, and and for entertainment purposes or for just for the hell of it, for for my own sake, you know, for my own psyche, for my own mental well-being.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, you know what? A few more questions and then I'm gonna let you go. Okay, because you said that. Let me ask about the everyday Ava Divine, not about the industry content. Um uh I we follow each other on Instagram. Yeah. I see that you are a big fitness person, just like me.

SPEAKER_03

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00

Um is that your how often do you train? How often do you work out to stay in shape and whatnot?

SPEAKER_03

Um honestly, um, as you know, right, 80% of what we eat is how our body looks. Uh, right, the other 20% is the gym. So honestly, like I don't I only work out like two to if I'm lucky, four times a week, but mainly two, because I work a lot and I and I have a lot of uh collabs and and content that I gotta shoot, which which I gotta be in hair and makeup two hours. You know, like I don't have time to run to the gym and do all that.

SPEAKER_00

But I don't know how you girls do it with the hair and makeup. It's un how do you sit still? It's unbelievable. My niece is a makeup artist, and she's uh she we we uh she now lives in New Jersey and she did, I think it was the Jersey Housewives. Um yeah, she had uh she she's really good at what she does. Yeah, these girls sit there for hours upon hour. I don't know how you girls have the patience to just sit there. It's unbelievable to me.

SPEAKER_03

Well, well, it's it's somewhat therapeutic because you build a relationship with the makeup artist and you guys talk. Um, it's also uh, you know, so so it's like it's pretty kind of therapeutic. Um, it's not painful, it's enjoyable, right? Because then guess what? I I I'm like I feel more, you know, like more a little bit more confident to like want to be in front of the camera and stuff because I don't know how to put makeup on. I'm not a licensed makeup artist. I choose not to be. I'll throw on lashes, little shadow, little blush, gloss, go to the gym. Cool. Run to the mall, cool, run some errands, great. But when I need to be in front of a camera, I don't know how to do makeup for the camera. I don't know how to do makeup for photos. I don't. I could pull it off with filters or whatever, but honestly, that's not my job. I don't, I didn't, I don't want, I don't care to know about that.

SPEAKER_04

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_03

Right. So, but then right, so I hire wonderful people that are experienced in that.

SPEAKER_04

Right.

SPEAKER_03

And and I and I have them glam me up for photos, videos, etc., etc. So, so I'm I'm putting out a product, right? So I want an elevated product. So that's why, so that's why I get my hair and makeup done, which is a wonderful luxury, I will have to say. It is such a gift to have such talented women glam me up while I sit there and bitch and moan to them.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, it's like it's like it's obviously working because you look fantastic. Every time we do a uh content, every time we do a video together, interview together, you look fantastic. So it's obviously working.

SPEAKER_03

But it's also healthy living too, because I I say no concealer, no foundation will cover up exhaustion.

SPEAKER_00

No, I've tried.

SPEAKER_03

Trust me, I've tried. There's not enough powder makeup for purple about it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. If I had three hours to sleep, there's no need to do that. Oh, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03

You're done. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um, what other hap um hobbies do you have outside of that world?

SPEAKER_03

Well, you know, it's funny because like uh I'm such a part of Ava. Like I'm trying my hardest to kind of go, what does Gina like? Like, what what do I like? Like I'm such a I'm such a worker bee that like I don't know, but I do, I'm I'm trying to tap in and I'm trying to discover. Well, first of all, I love my 12-step programs, my sobriety and and my my clean time is just really, I'm really passionate about that. Um, I love working with others. I love working with other women, reading books, the 12-step literature with them, taking them through the steps, and vice versa. Um, I and I love having a sponsor that does that for me. Um, I love uh I love reading biographies. I really I love biographies. I love autobiographies and biographies. It's so fascinating, especially when I can resonate with them. And I love success stories and I love failure stories too.

SPEAKER_00

I love the last biography you read.

SPEAKER_03

Jody Sweeten.

SPEAKER_00

Jody Sweetener. No, I have to look her up.

SPEAKER_03

It's from Full House, the little the Stephanie girl.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, I remember the character. Sure.

SPEAKER_03

I'm getting goosebumps. Do you know she was a tweaker?

SPEAKER_00

Really?

SPEAKER_03

Uh-huh. A drug addict tweaker.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_03

And everything, and I listened to her book on audio, and I was like, I'm getting chills. I was like, check, I get it. Yep, I understand. Oh, done that, been there. Most definitely, I remember that. Like the whole entire uh story. I was just, I was like, I can't believe like like this little girl that I saw on TV is is identical to like uh her and I walked through the same hell. I was like, how did that how did that happen?

SPEAKER_00

Wow.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I'll have to I'll have to look it up.

SPEAKER_03

Um I was and like I stumbled upon it on my audio, my uh audible.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it just the the uh the the child actors they seem to go through hell for some reason. A lot of them have a hard time. Uh if I had kids, I think I would keep them away from child acting.

SPEAKER_03

It's it's everywhere, right?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_00

Are you an animal lover? Dogs or cats?

SPEAKER_03

Doggies.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, what kind of dogs do you have?

SPEAKER_03

Uh two Frenchies, Coco, Coco Chanel, and uh Baron. Okay, and they're they're they're little angels.

SPEAKER_00

How old are they? Because I'm a dog person too.

SPEAKER_03

Uh Baron is gonna be six on December 2nd, and Coco is gonna be four June 17th. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Wow. Yeah, I have uh Ralphie and Jolene. And Ralphie is uh an American uh bulldog. Uh yeah, little chunky. Well, he's not an English bulldog, he's uh he's an old English Bulldog, so they they made him a little bit more athletic and bigger. Okay, so he's about 80 pounds, but he comes up to my knee. And then I have Jolene, and she's a female Kane Corso.

SPEAKER_03

Whoa.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, she's big, she's 120 pounds.

SPEAKER_03

Does she think she's a lap dog?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, when when um when we're done, I'll send you pictures. It's unbelievable. I have one picture of her. Her Aveva, I swear to god, her head is right next to mine. It's like this big.

SPEAKER_01

And what's she but she's yeah, she's like, I'm a little baby.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, what's funny is people are scared of her, but you call my house, it's play it's playtime. It's playtime. Of course. Playtime, it's unbelievable.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's joyful.

SPEAKER_00

Um, are you going to be at any more expos? I think there was an expo in Chicago that was just recent.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Will you be? I don't know when the next ones are. I think there's one in Florida, in Miami, if I'm right, or Orlando. And then there's gonna be the every year there's one in New Jersey.

SPEAKER_03

Yes, I was there last year. Um I'm not I'm not certain. I'm not certain. I do love being at AVN in my own backyard, you know. Oh, okay. I do love that. The uh the only thing with traveling for me is that sometimes I get a little bougie and then I'm like a million dollars out. I'm like, yeah. So so I'm trying to like pull back a little bit, but I don't know. I mean, if if the if the opportunity presents itself, I will. And I love getting a booth. I love getting a booth and signing autographs because I'm telling my and I know everyone always says this, but for me, my fans are so amazing.

SPEAKER_00

Like well, we have to we have to remember that we would be nothing without them.

SPEAKER_03

Exactly. I'll I'll be in a gutter, you know, uh, with whoever, Randos, but but these people are like, oh my god, uh I I I fall. They're like, they're amazing. I gain weight, so hot. I I look crazy, the best. I'm like, are you kidding me?

SPEAKER_04

And they like you.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and look, some don't. I get it, but but generally speaking, I will say there's some like unconditional love there. No joke. I it's like we've I don't know, it it's very heartfelt. It's like I've built some relations, some friendships, some relationships with some of these fans, and they're just they're like, they're like my ride or die. It's so amazing.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, they know the the the top tier girls uh have a really, really loyal follower. A tremendous lot, you Sarah J, um, Brittany Andrews, there's a tremendous lot. As a matter of fact, um, I think when I interviewed Sarah J, I uh I because I met her at the no, I I met her at the expo, but I got in touch with her through social media to get the interview, and then I met her at the expo in New Jersey. And tell me if I'm tell me if I'm wrong, and then then I'll let you go. I don't want to take too much of your time.

SPEAKER_03

You're fine.

SPEAKER_00

When I went to the expo, there were basically four different types of people that go that go to the expo.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, let's hear it.

SPEAKER_00

All right, so the the one the first one was just the couples that want to like spice up their life. Yeah, right? The married couples or the boyfriend, girlfriend that they go there, and you know, because when you go there, there's all different types of toys and clothes, and and they're they actually have a really good time and they want to spice up their love life. With obviously nothing wrong with that. The second type is the guys that go to the bar and afterwards they're like they're drunk and they go, come on, let's go to the fucking expo. And there's like three, four, five of them, and then they're like they're doing things like picking you up over their head over your head and taking pictures of you and stuff like that, right? Am I accurate so far?

SPEAKER_03

I mean, I don't know about the drug people, but I I I will say this the couples that come are so supportive of each other. It like it it's like wow, relationship goals, like they are like women go, can you take a picture with my husband? I'm like, of course. I'm like, what about you? You know, and and like and but like how supportive, like you know, I I know I know so many people, or even when I used to be psycho jealous, you know, like I I don't I don't want to hear about that, or like and and like that's a team, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

They're doing it for each other, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and they're and then and then like the girls, like, oh, I love you know, we watch or whatever, like what a team. Like, wow, good for you guys. So yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_00

Then the the third type of type of fan that I've saw when I went there uh was either I don't I wouldn't even call them trans. They're basically just finally comfortable in their own skin. It'll be like a guy that looks like me, throws, yeah, and with a bag, and you could clearly tell it's a dude. Um, but it's it's almost like uh oh, I fit in there. I could be myself. I'm comfortable in my own skin.

SPEAKER_03

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

I've seen that a lot. And then the the fourth type, which is I I call them what did I what did I call them? The super fans. They know everything about you, they know like where you're from, what your real name is, your birthday, they know your favorite color, they know what scene you did with who, they know everything about you, and they wait online for two hours to get an autograph.

SPEAKER_04

Yes, right? Yes.

SPEAKER_00

So those those seem to be the four types of uh fans that go that I've noticed. And then there's me who's trying to get interviews. I'm like, Ava, can you do Mike up podcast, please?

SPEAKER_03

But but what do they all have in common?

SPEAKER_00

They all they basically all love the industry, yeah, and and and they're just there like to to say, hey, I I watch you, I like you.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, yeah. Or absolutely. You know, like like get like God, that that's so wonderful. And you know how much like work or or or courage it is to go up to someone that you've watched for years or you see on the big screen or whatever, like do you much courage you gotta go up to someone and say, can I have an autograph in fear of rejection, in fear of they're gonna be mean, in fear they're gonna charge you a million dollars? Like, like whatever. Like, like it's it's it's incre it's crazy. And like that's why I'm like, oh my God, I will I'll I'm so kind to each and every one because unless they're rude, but well, other than that, like it takes a lot of coverage because trust me, I saw some famous woman at at the airport one time, and and I saw a dead mouse at at the JSX one, and I was so nervous. I was so nervous. And and I and I wanted to go up to them, and I smiled at one of the girls and sh uh and she looked at me rudely, and I was like, wow, like how heartbroken I was. I was like, and I was so let down, I was like, I will not support him anymore.

SPEAKER_00

That's happened to that's happened to me, it's happened to all of us. Yeah, we've met people that we idolize and they're mean or they're rude. Sure. And and you never want to give that, and and I because of what you just said, I mean, basically this interview has made me admire you and respect you even more because I kind of got to know a little bit more about the real you as opposed to the first interview where we talked about um you know your experience in the industry. Yeah, I admire that even more because, like you said, uh there are people that idolize you and they just want to know that you are a pleasant person when they meet meet you. That's it. And I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_03

And I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00

That's all they're looking for.

SPEAKER_03

Exactly, exactly. That's what each and all those four different fans you named are just want to say, Hey, I appreciate you. And for the and for the starlit or whoever to go, I appreciate you right back. Thank you for your support. That's all they want, that's all I want.

SPEAKER_00

Right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_03

So, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Well, uh, Ava, uh, all the love and respect in the world for you. Thank you so much. I appreciate you coming back on a second time. It really means a lot to me.

SPEAKER_03

Thank you so much. I hope this is enjoyable for everyone watching and for yourself.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, absolutely. This is this is good, definitely gonna do great. And um, we will definitely be in touch uh because we've stayed in touch for the last you know three years.

SPEAKER_03

Always. I yell at you, I curse you, and I tell you I love you, I tell you I hate you. We're good.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you so much, Ava. We'll be in touch. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03

All right, thank you.

SPEAKER_00

All right, have a good night.

SPEAKER_03

Bye bye.