Exclusive Interview: Jimmy Easy, Former Mafia Hitman

What was life really like inside the American Mafia? In this exclusive interview, former mafia hitman Jimmy "Easy" shares his firsthand experiences from a life once dominated by organized crime. From the realities of the mob lifestyle to the decisions that changed his life forever, this conversation offers a rare, unfiltered look into one of the most secretive criminal worlds in America.

Check out our sponsor:
https://www.nutrifitt.com
Discount code: Priest

Follow Jimmy Easy online

Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/@UCykcF-S4el9xMMc3m5QmMfA 

Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/jimmy_easy_saracco

TikTok:
https://www.tiktok.com/@UCykcF-S4el9xMMc3m5QmMfA 

#JimmyEasy #Mafia #TrueCrime #Mob #OrganizedCrime #MafiaStories

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

This video is sponsored by uh Nutrafit, Nutrafit.com, N-U-T-R-I-F-I-T-T dot com for people that are actually listening and not watching. Well, everybody knows that I am very much into bodybuilding and into fitness, and these are the supplements that I use. So I'm actually gonna show you uh real quick. And again, it's Nutrafit. They have great products, okay? They have pre-workout, they have protein, they have greens, they have sleep aid, they have electrolytes, they have whey protein. I mean, you name it, uh, they have it. They even have great clothing, shaker cups, workout gear. And the best part is any item on this site is 20% off if you just use the discount code Priest P-R-I-E-S-T. So go and get yourself some stuff, hit the gym, and let's now get into it. All right, great interview. I got Jimmy Easy making the rounds on YouTube. What's up, Jimmy? How you doing, man?

SPEAKER_04 1:00

Good, John. How you doing?

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Good. We were we were actually uh talking a little bit about uh Brooklyn. We were I I grew up in Brooklyn and then I was in Staten Island, so it was I was like surrounded by all those guys, yeah, especially over there and over there, that old neighborhood.

SPEAKER_04 1:18

Oh, yeah, it's bobbed up, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

And even in um, even in Staten Island, too. It was like uh uh um uh TG and it was just all these things. Anthony Graziano, yeah, yeah. He was like the big, the big uh the big boss on the island when I was when I was living there. Now I'm in Jersey, but so what I want to I of course I I watched several of your uh interviews and I even bought your book. I just got it today, so I'm looking forward to reading it. Okay, so it is Hitman Tells All a True Story by Zach Caruso. You can get it on Amazon. It's uh supposedly it's a very good read. I didn't start reading it yet, but I will. The first question is how come you put it under uh Zach Caruso?

SPEAKER_04 2:00

You know, uh John, it started out where when I came out in 05, I was never surface. I had legitimate businesses. I I laid, I got three beautiful girls, I got a son of dog, and I was I when when I was gonna make the book, I didn't want nobody to know who I was at first. Then I was gonna make the book, then I was gonna make the book because I had Jerry Capisi call me and all about doing a book. Yeah. And uh, matter of fact, he made an article about me when I first flipped, and uh I I went ahead and I would always jot things down as I remembered it, remembered it. But then I said if I do a book, my daughters are gonna know what I did years ago. So anyway, I went through a bad divorce. They put my oldest daughter on the standing. They asked her Natalie, how's it feel to have a father that's a stoke cold murderer? So she was trying to, you know, discredit me every way, shape, or form.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_04 3:01

But she couldn't. I want full custody of all three of my girls. My littlest one is seven. I raised him myself.

SPEAKER_00 3:09

Good.

SPEAKER_04 3:10

It's it's amazing how at that point my girl said, Daddy, do your book.

SPEAKER_00 3:15

Right.

SPEAKER_04 3:16

At that point, they got out to stand. Natalie asked me, Daddy, what is he talking about? And I was never gonna lie to them. I I I gave that life up. I said, I changed completely. My whole family, half of them can't believe it. And they live in Staten Island, like Jersey, and they're like, Wow, Jimmy Change really did. It could be it took them years to really and I went ahead and when I told them, I said, Daddy was a bad boy years ago, and I did stupid things, and I'm not proud of it. And I changed my life. I I served time in prayer. I got almost 16, 17 in. So, yeah, I served my time, and uh daddy, it's okay, but you're good. I'm good to them. And make a long story short, they encouraged me to go ahead and make the book, and then after the book, I had a lot of podcast companies reaching out to me. Vallad, um I I did some just did Matthew Cox, Hollywood Wade.

SPEAKER_00 4:10

Hollywood Wade, he's a good friend of mine. We've done we've done stuff together.

SPEAKER_04 4:13

Oh, he's a good guy, yeah. He's a good guy, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:15

I do most of the guys, most of the podcasters, um, you know, they just want to cover you know, interesting stuff. Most of the podcasters are good guys, you know.

SPEAKER_04 4:25

And then I did Mafia Round Table with Dominic and Gene. How was that?

SPEAKER_00 4:29

I I had Gene on once. I was never able to get Dominic on, but how how was that?

SPEAKER_04 4:34

It was good. We had a lot of fun, you know, because like you just asked the question about why'd you write the book under that name? You know, it was probably a mistake. I should have just shot right out of the gate with my name, but I was trying to just because I live in a nice neighborhood, right? You know, blend in.

SPEAKER_00 4:54

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_04 4:54

I didn't blend that well. I'm in Arkansas, so you know I don't blend well.

SPEAKER_00 4:58

Yeah, it's stick out like a salt.

SPEAKER_04 5:00

I know everybody in this town, I love everybody in this town. That's how good they are. Their sodden hospitality is the best. Okay, but I missed the food in Brooklyn.

SPEAKER_00 5:08

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:10

I would I would give her a slice of spamony god.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

I was chill. Well, what's funny is that um one of my pet peeves is when you see these content creators and they're sitting in front of L and B and they have the old Cadillac and the Pinky Rings and the gold chains, yeah. And and uh and they're trying to portray it as if it's 1980 again. And I'm like, me and my wife, every uh her birthday, um, every birthday, she wants to go there, right? Because she didn't grow up in Brooklyn, she grew up in Jersey. So I take it to Spamoni Gardens. We're the only Italian people there. Like, I I you know it's not the same. Yeah, and they're trying to portray it as being the same, the whole neighborhood is completely changed, you know.

SPEAKER_04 5:48

Yeah, you see a lot of podcast guys filming from there, like it's the old days. Yeah, there's no mold days.

SPEAKER_00 5:54

No, it's it's over.

SPEAKER_04 5:55

It's it's it's the government days. You listen to me. Yeah, I want to trust 70% of the guys in the street. I learned after you come on this side, you realized how many guys were bad around me.

SPEAKER_00 6:10

We're gonna well, I definitely wanna I definitely want to get to that. Because there was a time, you know, in mafia history that you could, you know, make a living and be on the street for years and be respected. Um, and then guys just started, and it was probably started with Giuliani and the Rico law, but guys really just started flipping.

SPEAKER_04 6:29

That was one of the reasons, that Rico law.

SPEAKER_00 6:31

Yeah, absolutely. So, where did you grow up? Because you, from what I understand, you were uh uh with the the Cavacante family, which is a Jersey faction from North Jersey, but you grew up in in Brooklyn, right?

SPEAKER_04 6:44

There's two fractions of the Kavacante crime family. I mean, there they're one, was yeah, but yeah, there was one exactly. There's the Brooklyn fraction, and you got the the the Jersey's fraction. You know what I mean? Like Steve and all them, like the Sopranos. Where do you think they made that from?

SPEAKER_00 7:01

Right, yeah. That's that's all near me where I live now. It's all filmed or by me. Because I've always heard New York always had like satellite, if you want to call them for lack of a better term, for satellite crews in Jersey. The Lucchese always had a Jersey crew, and you know, um, but I've never heard of uh a Jersey crew having a crew in Brooklyn until I watched the interview with you and Vlad. And the guy you were under was Rudy Farone. Yeah, and how did you hook up with him?

SPEAKER_04 7:33

My dad knew him for years. Um, my oldest brother knew him. You know, he was like the our guy, you know, like every Italian family has somebody's yeah, he would but you know, but my father grew up more with like uh Jimmy Burke because we come from Ozone Park.

SPEAKER_02 7:51

Right.

SPEAKER_04 7:52

My father loved Sonny Francis, he used to think the world of him. Yeah, that's a man, that's a man, yeah. You know, um he grew up with Jimmy Burke. We we go to racetrack in the grandstand in the cheap section. We they'd be right there on the steps, you know, gambling. Right, and that's when I said, Wow, this is the life.

SPEAKER_00 8:10

Yeah, of course. It's it's very uh contagious, right? I mean, we see guys with a lot of money and the women and the cars and whatnot, you know. That scene in Goodfellas is not is not bullshit. That's the truth. You see it, and then that's what you want, right? Um how did Rudy end up? Was he a Brooklyn guy? How did he end up being with the De Cavicantes and or was he a Jersey guy who was implanted in Brooklyn? How did they set that up?

SPEAKER_04 8:36

You know, that's really a good question. I really don't have a positive answer. I know Rudy was always hung his hat in Brooklyn, right? I know he knew Sam de Cavacante, so I guess that's how he hooked up with him. I never really asked that question. That's one of the best questions somebody ever asked me.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

Really?

SPEAKER_04 8:55

I mean, because I've never sat there. It ain't like the movies. You sit there and ask them about murders, you talk about this. You know, say, Rudy, oh listen, how did you get with the he never never thought about it to know? Yeah, yeah, but I do talk to his family. He's got a nephew, it's uh Michael, um, and all the whole family. His daughter, and I I'm gonna I gotta ask that question now. You got that you got me puzzled.

SPEAKER_00 9:21

Yeah, because uh when I where I grew up, where I or in Bensonhurst, it was the Persicos, they like ruled that neighborhood. It was Greg Scarper and Larry Mazza, and you know, you had other guys too. Don't get me wrong, you had Chrissy Fennari, but um it was all that where I grew up was mostly uh Persico's Columbus or Spiro is over there, yeah. The bananos in in Bath Avenue and whatnot. Those are the two dominant you know, families in Bensonhurst. So it it's uh it's strange to say like when I watched that interview, I was like, oh, that would be a great question. I've never heard of a a Jersey guy, and plenty of New York guys.

SPEAKER_04 10:04

And Sam was a very, very close with all the guys on the commission. So man Rudy, I know growing up in the day, he told me years ago he had a fist fight with come on Persico when they were kids growing up, right?

SPEAKER_00 10:19

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:20

So he had also I always knew he grew up there, but how he got connected there, I never asked him.

SPEAKER_00 10:26

Yeah, he had to be um he had to be from South Brooklyn, then if that was the case. Oh, he was oh yeah, yeah, he had to be because uh Persico was from I think uh Carroll Street. Yeah, he was from Carol Gardens.

SPEAKER_04 10:39

His sisters, well, they passed away probably now. They're Anna Father C and Jerry Father C they lived right next door to yeah, they had uh that sort of meaning in Caroline.

SPEAKER_00 10:50

They will they will uh it was his whole crew that he grew up with were guys that became heavyweights when he was. Andrew Russo, uh Russo, uh Scappy, um uh Jerry Lang. Jerry Lang.

SPEAKER_04 11:03

Yeah, old Patty Mac, although that whole crew down there was treacherous.

SPEAKER_00 11:07

Yeah, and uh I think uh Scappy went to jail for that murder when he would they were kids. I believe the story was that uh well, the story is like mixed, right? It's like some people say Scappy did it, and then other people say Persico did it, and he took the rap. Um, but they were kids, they were like 16 or 17 years old or something like that. He wind up there was a street fight, he wind up killing somebody. But they I don't know the full full story. But all those guys when they got out, and once he became the boss, he oh, all those guys became heavyweights, man.

SPEAKER_04 11:38

Junior was a good boss. I mean, literally, he was not even five foot tall. Yeah, treacherous.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

That age. Yeah. Um, I don't know, you probably haven't watched any of my stuff, but my father's uh partner was Scappy.

SPEAKER_03 11:53

Was he?

SPEAKER_00 11:54

Yeah, we were, yeah. I was I you know you said something interesting on Vlad. You said that your dad never wanted you to be involved, but you were always around those guys, right? My dad never wanted to be wanted me or my brothers involved and tried to keep us away as much as possible. Like he really didn't. Like my oldest brother was probably around them the most, but even my father would try to keep him away, especially me. I was the youngest. He definitely did not want me around in that life or anything like that. So he never brought me around those guys. But Scappy was his partner, and he had he always, you know, if you were in construction, you didn't have a choice back then, right?

SPEAKER_04 12:36

Well, Scapy was centrus, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:38

From what I understand, yeah. He was he was a 100% gangster.

SPEAKER_04 12:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:43

So let's talk about you a little bit. So what age did you really start getting involved with uh organized crime and uh organized crime, probably about 18, you know, 15, 16, I was getting in trouble, stupid things.

SPEAKER_04 12:58

But about 18, I started bookmaking with a guy, uh Fritzi Giovanelli. He'd come to the track all the time. I was a waiter in the racetrack, and he'd come in and he used to always sit at my table. I'd bring him extra food because I knew they'll took me good. You know what I mean? I'd get out stuck, shunk cocktails, eight of them on the table, you know. And he said, Hey kid, we you know all these people around everybody likes you, why don't you take some bets? I knew right what he meant. I grew up I grew up in an Italian family, that's normal.

SPEAKER_02 13:26

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_04 13:27

And I said, I'll think about it. And he started me with a quarter sheet back then, because I was young. Yeah, 25%. And then eventually I I was working with a guy named Benny Russo under him, and then they turned into a half sheet because at that point I had 15, 20 guys, good payers. And then at that point, I said, you know what? I'm gonna do this on my own. The football cards I was doing, you know, just little card sheets. I'd book it all on my own. Then I started taking the bets, and then it I started with like to the point where I wanted all small, small betters. A big better is I didn't want it. I wanted that sucker better that made six bets a week. You're gonna eat them up with the juice, right? I didn't want a guy that's gonna come in, give me two dimes on a Mets with Gooden coming on the mountain, Dwight Gooden. You probably don't remember. Yeah, you know what I mean? Uh you know, you know you're gonna lose nine and ten times.

SPEAKER_00 14:20

You could see that. I got Gary Clark and Lee Mazzilli's autograph right behind me. If you could see that.

SPEAKER_04 14:24

Lee Mazzilli, I'm friends with him on Facebook.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_04 14:27

He's a gentleman, yeah. Yes, yes. Matter of fact, one of my cousins dated him.

SPEAKER_00 14:33

Oh, okay. That's right, that's right. Jesus Christ, it's a fucking small world, right?

SPEAKER_03 14:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:39

So um, so you start getting involved, you start basically bookmaking, and then how does it expand into uh sports? How does it expand into drugs?

SPEAKER_04 14:50

What happens is this listen, you're gambling with me and you're losing now. You owe me 3,000, but you don't have it. Beating you up, doing anything gonna get no way about we're gonna turn it into loan shark money. I tell him I got a guy that's a loan shark, I'm gonna borrow the 3,000, you're gonna make the payment. Meanwhile, it's my money.

SPEAKER_02 15:09

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_04 15:10

You know, so next thing you know, I got guys coming. This guy gives me 90 a week. This guy still not comes off the top. You know that. That 3%, 4%, whatever you get, three points, four points. Nothing comes off the top. I started that, but then I it got to the point where I was taking bets. I had guys take a shot at me when you're not around somebody Yeah, they take advantage. So you take the better, go go where you gotta go, get your money.

SPEAKER_00 15:34

Right, right.

SPEAKER_04 15:35

Nobody. Now nobody. At that point, I realized, and I and I realized my best interest would have been Rudy. And I went and sat with him, and yeah. And and what got me really, and I didn't go there with that intention, and good with Rudy was come to find out, he was one of the biggest loan sharks. And with a guy named Joe Smash. Yeah, you know, Sally with the car lot on Cropsy, he was with him.

SPEAKER_00 16:01

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_04 16:02

And uh Rudy, I told him when I was doing book making, I had a problem with a guy that was around uh Nikki Carazo's nephew. He ran a bill up like 40 something hundred.

SPEAKER_02 16:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 16:15

He says, Go get the money, you gotta go see my uncle at this address. I pull up, I see a social club. I said, Oh, here we go.

SPEAKER_02 16:21

Right, right.

SPEAKER_04 16:22

I said, you know what? Let me go sit and talk to Rudy. Talk to Rudy, I told him, he's I'll handle it. Next day he sent Joe Smash over there. Hey, that money that kid owed, it was ours. I got it. And then you know, he put me on record with him, and then I started book making. Then he said, Listen, he then he seen how reparable I am. Oh, he's on time. You know, that's the way I am. I'm just that kind of OCD with time, and and and and I started putting money out for him.

SPEAKER_02 16:50

Okay, all right.

SPEAKER_04 16:51

Then before you know it, I was collecting his. You know, he had a route. Before you know it, he was partners with Joe Smash on a lottery, and he was a Colombo guy. Go figure that out, right? Everybody else had out, yeah. Okay, Joe Smash was close with Carmen Persigo, so it was that whole neighborhood. Yeah, who wound up with this fraction, who wound up with this fraction? So they had me running the bookmaking. Then I started the Joker, really had a joke of Pokemon business. He was getting frustrated with it. So I bought it off him.

SPEAKER_00 17:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 17:26

Then I started taking because then a couple of times my machines were taken. Somebody came in the store, told it a Korean lady, we're the police, we're gonna take this machine. Oh, not we're gonna take you. She's no, take the machine. I said, No, no, no, I knew right. I caught the move.

SPEAKER_02 17:43

Right.

SPEAKER_04 17:43

I started doing I got a white van pulling up with a hand truck, walking in. Whose machine is that? And you know what they do. Oh, I don't know. And then I said I go Okay, well, I'm with the 72 priest and whatever. I'm gonna take the machine, confiscate it. You want to come with it? No, no, it's not my machine. Okay, here's the card. I get my card. Have them contact me if they want to pick up the machine. Okay, I got a machine with the money and everything. I'll break the lock open for my machine. That's what they were doing.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

Okay, all right. For people who don't know, can you explain what a Joker Polka machine is?

SPEAKER_04 18:17

If you go inside a lot of baldagles, grocery stores, and you uh back of liquor stores, you see the machines, you put the money in and spins around. They got Cherry Master, Joker Polka, they got the roulette one, and it's like a it's like a knockoff slot machine.

SPEAKER_00 18:35

Gotcha. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 18:36

You know, and that's how you make a lot of money with those things. And we I had a set at 86%, what most guys do. So every dollar you put in, you'll lose at 14 cents in the long run.

SPEAKER_00 18:47

Okay, okay. And how many of those did you have around Brooklyn?

SPEAKER_04 18:51

I had a good round. Oh, Brooklyn, Queens. I want to put them in Queens. I had the problem with the Gotties.

SPEAKER_00 18:56

Oh, that's right, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:56

Well, yeah, I had them in Queens, Brooklyn, I had them in Long Island. I had a lunch of that I owned in Long Island. I had it in the back room, it was next door to an OTB. We spiced into their satellite. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_04 19:10

I was taking the bets right next door.

SPEAKER_01 19:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:13

We don't take the 2% out like OTB does. We pay cash, no 2% fee. People coming in, putting the bets, watching the races in my voice.

SPEAKER_00 19:22

Yeah, it's amazing the things you used to get away with back then, man. It was just unbelievable. You know, I I remember as a kid, you know, my father had bought a Cadillac, and you know, he would wake up the next morning and the bumper was gone or the radio was gone. And he would just send one of my brothers up to like 28th Avenue and go get a new bumper. He was probably buying the same one they sold the same bumper back, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:44

That was a good thing they had going on. My father, they got my father, they laid down with that blanket, wrapper blanket with the drill guns, drop it, up, boom. They were charging the collision shops with buying them off the guys in the street for like a thousand dollars.

SPEAKER_02 20:01

Right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_04 20:02

But your insurance company's allowing you 3,500. Yeah, so some of them were really fakes, I think.

SPEAKER_00 20:09

Oh no, absolutely. That was a big uh scam when you uh, you know you knew a collision.

SPEAKER_04 20:14

We used to own full service auto collision on 60th Street. Okay, Pathmark.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

Okay, yeah, okay. And um uh obviously tag jobs were big too back then.

SPEAKER_04 20:26

I had an El Dorado Barretz tagged.

SPEAKER_00 20:29

Really?

SPEAKER_04 20:29

The guy that had it before me, uh the same paperwork was in there. I seen it. It was an Asian guy guy, moon or something. Call was gorgeous, had like 3,000 miles on it. Yeah, I gave seven grand for it. Back then you could have done it. Now they got GPS. I I'm in the auto industry now. You you ain't doing that no more.

SPEAKER_00 20:47

Yeah, let's let's let's let's get to that a little bit. Um, I mean, I want to get to a lot of stuff, but basically, I want your opinion on there are still there are still guys out there that are on the street, but from what I understand, a little bit that I know, they've had to like basically adapt or die. Uh and the adaptation has basically been um no murder, uh as little violence as possible, um no more lookings apart, right? Like, you know, you wouldn't recognize them anymore. They wear t-shirts and jeans, you know, it's they don't wear the tracksuits and the pinky rings like everybody thinks anymore. Um, no more social clubs, they usually run out of a legitimate business, you know, restaurants are usually a lot. How do they how do they survive today? I mean, I know there's smalls, there's still small fractions of the Gambinos and the Genovese and whatnot that's out there, uh clearly. But how do they survive today if the threat of violence isn't there?

SPEAKER_04 21:54

You know, if you listen to the show I did on Vallad, I said the same thing. Like when he asked me that, you ask the same thing as well. Lad, so you just have the same thinking, right? And he said, I said, listen, once you take the fear factor away, we're not lawyers, we're not sending you a letter, right? So if you're not, they're not scared of you, they're not paying you, so they can't last if they stay with that. That that game plan will not work for the mob. Yeah, and we the whole idea of the mob is I'll break your fucking head. Oh, you understand? What are you gonna say? Oh, I'll tell your mommy. I mean, that lawyer, what the fuck they give them? Come on.

SPEAKER_00 22:28

And and I want your opinion on this, because I know you have history with them, from what I understand. We saw that recently with Johnny Elite or A Lite. I always pronounce his name wrong. Um, where he went to collect money that he was pushing on the street, from what we understand, and the guy just took the ring doorbell and brought it to the police, and he got arrested. And um, I don't know if you know the story. Do you know the the you've heard the story?

SPEAKER_04 22:50

I spoke to Johnny a day before that because we were gonna do a podcast.

SPEAKER_00 22:54

Oh, okay. Yeah, he's been on mine. He he actually, when I first started, he did me a huge favor. And I was on his channel when he was doing a show out of Florida with um who was the cop? The crooked cop. Oh, god, I can't remember his name.

SPEAKER_03 23:09

Spazito.

SPEAKER_00 23:11

No, Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_03 23:12

The Philly one or New York one?

SPEAKER_00 23:13

No, no, from New York New York one. Um, they did a documentary on him.

SPEAKER_03 23:17

Connolly.

SPEAKER_00 23:18

Uh no, they did Mike, uh Michael. Fuck, I can't remember his name. Whatever, I'll remember it. Doesn't matter. But he actually helped me uh because um through Larry. Larry had a friend that knew him and asked him if I can come on the show. He let me on the show. He didn't charge me. He's just if you can make it to Florida, yeah, come in. Of course I went and they did the show. So you know, I I have nothing bad to say about uh John whatsoever. He was always we were always cool. We went to dinner afterwards, and you know, we didn't have to pay, and really good dude from from my standpoint, anyway.

SPEAKER_04 23:53

But yeah, but we always see what happened with him was when I when I I told you I went 20 years, nobody I never came to any social media about me cooperating. Nothing. I kept it quiet. I was just that nine to five schmo. And and what happened when a book comes out, a lot of people contacted him when I did my first contest. This guy saved from How would be says, Do you know? He said, at first he did the interviews on if you look, I didn't recognize him at first, but then we started using names, and I realized, hey, that's Jimmy Easy. Yeah, then he came out and he made it public. Yes, he was an adversary to the Gambino crime family.

SPEAKER_00 24:33

Yeah, from what I understand, he was he was uh, you know, uh Jones Tough Kid.

SPEAKER_04 24:38

Yeah, and you know what? I'm I really feel bad for him. I know it sounds sad, but I do it's still I don't know. I I heard the guy that was with him his codevant was wired.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

Yeah, I've I've heard I've heard several things too that he was working with the police. I I've heard plenty of plenty of things.

SPEAKER_04 24:58

But the guy it wasn't just the doorbell ring.

SPEAKER_00 25:01

Okay, good.

SPEAKER_04 25:02

The guy's wearing a wire on him for weeks.

SPEAKER_00 25:04

Oh, okay. All right. Oh, he's yeah, and that's another thing, you know.

SPEAKER_04 25:10

It's a shame because I thought he really turned his life around. We talked, he was telling me his his nephew does the PAL league in Staten Island. He goes down here, he spends time with him, and I'm like, that's great. Because I try to do as much as I can. Yeah, I did a lot of scumbag things, and I'm trying to do everything I can to do.

SPEAKER_00 25:27

Try to give back. You know, it's like something. It's very difficult, it's gotta be very difficult to change who you are. You know, um, like if somebody told me, hey John, you you know, you can't go to the gym anymore, it's just not healthy for you. You know, don't I go to the gym every day after work, right? That's I don't know if I'd be able to do that. I don't know. I, you know, during COVID, I was freaking out trying to find a fucking gym, right? Um, I think the majority of the guys uh have a very difficult time really changing. And I think the majority of the guys that are doing that are doing social media today are just doing it because they don't have something to go back to. There, I don't, you know, it's not the 70s where you come out and you could go back on the street and earn and and they're powerful, and it's just not the same anymore. Everybody who's getting out is writing books and doing social media and podcasting, because you know, they kind of think you gotta make a living, right? Don't get me wrong. Um, it's gotta be very difficult to change who you are, you know. You might be able to tone it down, but I think once he get that he got that flame lit, it was like the old John Elite again. And it's like, I'll fucking kill you, you know.

SPEAKER_04 26:43

You know I think after he made the money with uh Netflix and everything, it's got he probably tried to invest it. Yeah, right, you know, but he still never hurt nobody. You know, he talked. Yeah, you know, I I think he should have at least got an ankle bracelet. That's my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 26:59

Yeah, yeah. I think I think um I think that am I I think they're trying to make a uh an example out of him because he was on the council. He he was on a councilman in I think Mammoth, um uh yeah, in Jersey or whatnot, mammoth county. So they might be trying to make an example out of him. But it what we're trying to say is that it's becoming more and more difficult. It seems like they the guys today are transitioning into a lot more gambling, poker games, um, online websites.

SPEAKER_04 27:30

That's all they got, right?

SPEAKER_00 27:32

Right, right.

SPEAKER_04 27:33

Think about it. See, the online booking apps, okay, most of them Dominican Republic, they're they're all the way uh they can never get yeah. So if you're you instead of you having an office, they're doing the work for you, they get a percentage, so it's pretty much you're now a legal, like there was one guy with bookmaker, Andy Gargilio. They called him Andy Wilson. Okay, he was a professional gambler, he paid taxes for it. Wow, he was one of the biggest bookmakers in Brooklyn. Okay, matter of fact, when he got popped in the front page of Daily News, it said the three large bookmakers, MGM, Caesars, and Andy Wilson.

SPEAKER_02 28:14

Really?

SPEAKER_00 28:14

Really?

SPEAKER_04 28:15

I mean, that's on the front page.

SPEAKER_00 28:17

That's okay.

SPEAKER_04 28:17

I went to his house. He was his I went and he used the batch where they had gold force. The house was gorgeous.

SPEAKER_00 28:23

I can imagine.

SPEAKER_04 28:24

It was a small house, but I mean, when you walked in, it was like he buried money in there. He had so much money he can't spend it.

SPEAKER_00 28:32

So that's uh I wish I was in that position.

SPEAKER_04 28:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:36

Unbelievable. All right, so uh another question is after Rudy passes, because he passes in 1998, right?

SPEAKER_04 28:46

I think it was 97.

SPEAKER_00 28:46

97? Okay, sorry, 97.

SPEAKER_04 28:48

Because I got picked up January 23rd with Nikki and Lenny in '97, and I I was in Oldersville pre-trial because I fled guilty six months in, because they had me on wire tape. And not even two months in, I get the phone call to the counselor's office, and they told me Rudy died. So it was like March, April 97, I'm almost sure.

SPEAKER_00 29:13

All right.

SPEAKER_04 29:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:14

Was your father still alive when he when he passed? Or no?

SPEAKER_04 29:18

No. I lost my father uh the Christmas Eve before that.

SPEAKER_00 29:25

Oh, that sucks. That's the worst time.

SPEAKER_04 29:27

And the feds were came to the funeral parlor to ask me to cooperate right there.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

Really?

SPEAKER_04 29:33

Pull me over a block away, come with us. You won't do a damn party do a Jay in jail. I thought I'm gonna go fuck yourself, you know. That was me then. But then once the the Cavicantes, Anthony Capo, Anthony Ratonda, hey, they tumble down. I was coming home from the Fort Dix bid from Nikki and Lenny. Ralphie Guarino robs the World Trade Center, the bank. He gets caught. He wears a wire on Rini Palermo, Anthony Kappel, Anthony Ratonda, um Victor Di Chiera. He wore a wire on everybody. So I come home, I see Ralphie. He says, Stay away from me like this. And we're close.

SPEAKER_01 30:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:19

And then I walk away from him like there's something wrong. There's something going on. And I see him get on a payphone, and he's got a cell phone call. Three days later, they they sweep 40, 40 of them, I think it was. He didn't get me on, he didn't want to get he didn't want to get me on tape.

SPEAKER_00 30:38

Ah, okay.

SPEAKER_04 30:38

So he's saying stay away from me.

SPEAKER_00 30:40

Wow. He was probably live. So get in get into that a little bit, because yeah, there was that uh sweep during the late 90s. I forgot what it was called, but they they got about 47 different guys.

SPEAKER_04 30:51

Um what did it was late 90s, I think uh 99 or 2000.

SPEAKER_00 30:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 30:59

Yeah, around 99 and 2000.

SPEAKER_00 31:02

And what how long were the feds on, and who exactly were they on?

SPEAKER_04 31:07

Well, what happened was uh Ralphie Garino did the job at the bank. They got they pulled it off. Coming out of the World Trade Center, coming down the elevator right before the door opened, the guy pulled his mask off too soon. So they got a shot of him.

SPEAKER_00 31:23

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 31:24

They went to him, he flipped. The other guy that was with him flew, left the country right away. Because he knew his friend flipped. He didn't tell Ralphie. So there was another guy involved, I don't know who it was, he was a driver outside, and there was Ralphie. So they went to Ralphie, George Hannah, the head organized crime test for guys of G. He used to be a street guy. You if you you took if you sat and talked with him, John, you'd think you're talking to a street guy.

SPEAKER_00 31:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 31:52

And George Hanna went to him, gave him his card, he said, Ralphie, we know what you did. You just came home, we did 14 years, whatever. So I don't think you want to go back. Get a hold of me. And Ralphie called him, became a confidential informant, wired up. Ralphie had the phone store. He was giving flip-off tones to Vinny, Anthony Vitando, them. Hey, don't worry, they're untraceable. They're untraceable. The feds gave it to them to give them, they used it.

SPEAKER_00 32:24

It's it's unfortunate how you know people you've known forever and then they, you know, they kind of snitch on you. You never think you're gonna be in that position, especially when you're young. You never think you're gonna get caught. You think you're immortal, first of all, right?

SPEAKER_04 32:35

You're untouchable. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

Yeah, and um, you know, you make a lot of stupid mistakes and you forget who you uh you uh and there were certain guys, the old school guys, um, they kind of had it a little easier because they didn't have all that technology.

SPEAKER_04 32:54

Yeah, you know, um and they weren't making the deals and they didn't have Rico back then, right? Or conspiracy, you know, Giuliani didn't do no no no favors.

SPEAKER_00 33:06

No, that's for sure. And and what's what's funny is I was having a conversation about about this with a friend of mine, and he's actually uh half Irish and he's half his mama's from his mother's from Chile. And he said, I never thought about it, and he said, he said, uh Giuliani's the biggest cuck in you know Italian American history. And I was like, how do you figure? And he goes, would any other person with in the same nationality throw their own under the bus like that? Would any other and then you see a lot of other politicians that go out of their way not only to leave their own alone, but to help them. I mean, we sit we see it with in Minnesota with the uh the the learning facilities, right? Um with um I forgot the politician's name who uh actually helped these people set up and and um use federal funds. Uh and he said, you know, you would never see any other nationality do that. You know, you don't see black politicians doing that to to you don't see, you know, you see a lot of black judges, especially women, that you know, see a black face and they have compassion and they go, okay, you know, we're gonna give you another chance, and it becomes another chance and another chance and another chance. And and Rudy Giuliani was the complete opposite. It was like he almost saw an Italian name and he's like, Oh, I'm gonna take you down. Yeah, you know, um, it was unfortunate.

SPEAKER_04 34:35

He went after Vinnie Palermo, the uh the real life soprano, supposedly, right? He had wiggles on Queen's Boulevard.

SPEAKER_00 34:44

Yeah, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_04 34:45

There was a Jewish synagogue a few blocks away, so that was his biggest excuse. You know, uh they were complaining about it. No, he didn't want none.

SPEAKER_00 34:58

The Jews would never do that to each other. Never in a million years. I know I'm saying things that are a little controversial now, but you know, my best feature and my worst feature is that I'm a little honest, a little too honest.

SPEAKER_04 35:10

That's the best way to be.

SPEAKER_00 35:11

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you know, sometimes it gets me in trouble. But yeah, no other person would throw their own under the bus like that. You know, it just it just it just wouldn't happen. You know, you know, um and here's another thing that that kind of bothers me about that whole thing too. We as Italians in in our and when we had our neighborhoods, we had like an we had like an inside security. Uh, if there was a problem, you didn't have to go to the cops in the neighborhood. You you could go to somebody and they would take care of it. I mean, uh Rita Gigante uh came on and told me that her father used to pay uh widows in Greenwich Village used to pay his rent their rent for them because she was there was a widow and she was from the neighborhood and she was Italian. Um and you would see these things, you would see guys if uh Sammy the Bull said, you know, women would walk on his side of the street where I forgot the name of the restaurant that he had on his side of the street because they they knew that he was safe.

SPEAKER_04 36:15

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 36:16

Um if there were any kind of a pedophile or a woman beater, oh my god, they would hang they would hang you from the fucking light poles. Now they took that away, and so for a long time people relied on the police. And now you can't even rely on the police anymore. It's almost like you're on your own. You see it on a daily basis where people are getting beat up, um, uh, stabbed, shot, you know, um, from these young kids, you know. There was one, I don't know if you saw it recently, it's 7-Eleven. This 74-year-old man got beat up by like, you know, I think five or six teenage kids.

SPEAKER_04 36:54

Really?

SPEAKER_00 36:54

Yeah. And you see it all the time.

SPEAKER_04 36:56

And then, you know, they get they get re-released, and you know, no remorse for child molesters.

SPEAKER_00 37:03

Yeah. Um, we'll get we'll get into that. But all right, I ramble on too much. Let's get into uh that now. The one thing that I want to ask you, and and this comes with all due respect, there's a lot of podcasters out there, not a lot, but the ones that are in this realm uh that is that are saying that you weren't as vicious as you were, as you claim to be. So I watched the James Proctor.

SPEAKER_04 37:29

I don't know how they claim to be vicious. I don't say I go fight seven foot guys, I don't fight muscle bowl guy, I just shoot you in a hubby. You know, I don't claim that I oh I went to barn, I wrecked the barn, I I I fought for guys. I don't talk like that.

SPEAKER_00 37:47

Yeah. But James James Proctor, he was respectful when I watched his video. He was very respectful when he when he when he talked about you, but he did say that he couldn't really find anything about um uh murders or anything like that in court papers or anything. And he clearly stated that, yeah, you definitely were with Rudy, you were definitely a street kid, you were definitely making money, you were a hustler. There was he said there's no question about it, you were definitely in the life. Um, but he questions uh uh the murders.

SPEAKER_04 38:15

Yeah, did you watch the show today with Dominic Sakali?

SPEAKER_00 38:19

I did not, no.

SPEAKER_04 38:20

Okay, I presented my paperwork.

SPEAKER_00 38:23

Oh, really? Yeah, okay. I have to watch it.

SPEAKER_04 38:26

The thing is this, I waited 20 years to come out, right? You know, the first time I did a podcast, and it was two brothers that got killed, one one of the charges, they were different times. And the niece sent me a message on there, and let me tell you, I almost quit the podcasting. She she said, one guy says, Is he a fake? Is it full? Who is a Zach Caruso?

SPEAKER_02 38:56

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_04 38:56

And so when she put that on there, let me tell you something, John. It I got three daughters now. I'm a single dad, three girls. Yeah, I couldn't imagine somebody taking me away from them.

SPEAKER_02 39:06

Right, right.

SPEAKER_04 39:07

So listen, it it hit it hit me home, like it home hard. She said, You're a piece of no, he's real. He's a he's a piece of shit. He killed my father and my uncle. And let me tell you something. And I knew the kid.

SPEAKER_00 39:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:26

You know, when I he was a junkie, he was uh like like Chris Columbo made a comment, he killed a homeless guy. No, he wasn't homeless, Sal. Sal was just a street kid that was always out getting high and always on the street. Okay. So Chris Columbo told Proc that he was a he um killed a homeless man. Like guys back at the home. No, he wasn't Sal. His mother had a house on First Street, a brownstone. You know what they're worth.

SPEAKER_00 39:52

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:53

Between six, fifth, and sixth.

SPEAKER_00 39:55

Yeah, oh, that's big money.

SPEAKER_04 39:57

That's what I'm saying. Chris is just a little mad because I was on his case. You know, Chris Colombo. Yeah, but you know, I don't go around saying, you know what, Chris, why don't you talk about when Vinnie Palermo slapped the shit out of him, might in Lum Chins. I don't know if you remember Lum Chins.

SPEAKER_00 40:14

I do remember Lum Chin, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:15

It was a watch guy place, yeah. So he was Chris was in there talking loud to Joey O, the kid they killed in Marine Parkway uh uh marine golf course, they left him.

SPEAKER_00 40:26

Okay, I don't remember.

SPEAKER_04 40:27

Joey O was under Vinny and he's yelling at uh Chris. Uh Chris is telling Joey, I need my Vinny come walking, he says, Hurst of all, why are you yelling? Because he yells me fuck up. Vinny went crack. Chris couldn't say a word. Yeah, he didn't hit a back nothing. My reflexes, I would probably got me in trouble. Like when I told Gotti, I wasn't taking fireworks out of him.

SPEAKER_02 40:49

Right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_04 40:50

I my I talked too fast. I should think before I go, and that's what he did, and he got cracked. But he know, you know, I didn't ever want to say that about a guy, you know, embarrass him.

SPEAKER_01 41:00

Right.

SPEAKER_04 41:00

But when he tried to say I was broke, and then I uh Proctor in '94, they go, I owned, I owned over 50 race horses in Meadowlands Obama Park. Yeah, Google it. Google one of my best horses, disaster master. I I won a McKay City handicapped, Gallop Goose Stakes, 93, 94, and then 94, I think they named them horse of the year, New Jersey Bread of the Year. You know, Meadowlands Obama Park. And they named them Jersey Bread of the Year. They gave me a plaque, ESPN was there, they took a pot pictures all, you know. I mean, who do you know owns 50 race horses? I mean, they you know what they cost a month to take care of?

SPEAKER_00 41:46

I can only imagine it's it's around.

SPEAKER_04 41:51

X-ray sculpting without any group, anything. The the trainer used to charge me, I had a contract with him because I kept the full bond, and he charred me, I think, 60 a day. That was back then, right? It was in the early 90s, 60 a day. So you gotta say 50. That's 3,000 a day. How am I broke paying this? You know, when you're mad, though, he like a scorn bitch. You know how you know when a woman gets mad?

SPEAKER_00 42:20

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 42:21

It's he's always been, they used to call him Fredo growing up.

SPEAKER_00 42:25

Well, that's I I wanted to ask you about that. I never had him on. I never had the pleasure of interviewing him. I know uh Wade didn't, Wade had him on. How was he looked at by the mafia after his father was was killed?

SPEAKER_04 42:39

Nothing, never straightened out, nothing, never did a nothing. He got handed, his mother Lucille got handled her bag suitcases of money. They never had to worry. He's got a little playground with horse ponies and donkeys. When I go up there, it's like a zoo up there. Yeah, he's got so much money, Chris. I mean, God bless him. But he he didn't listen. His father set them up, right?

SPEAKER_00 43:04

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_04 43:05

You know, and you know, his father like a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00 43:08

When he was on the when he was on the street, was he respected, or did the guys just you never seen him? Really?

SPEAKER_04 43:15

He lived in Orange County, upstate New York. I know a lot of you you see Chris once a month or once every two months, it's always a lot.

SPEAKER_00 43:24

Okay. So did you dabble in uh drugs? Not not using, but selling, and I understand you would rob drug dealers, which was common back then.

SPEAKER_04 43:36

Yeah, yeah. It's like robbing cash off somebody, you know, because we had a way to get rid of it quick.

SPEAKER_00 43:43

Right.

SPEAKER_04 43:43

It didn't have a VIN number.

SPEAKER_00 43:46

Yeah, right, yeah. There was no serial code. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:49

Now we robbed a bunch of jewelry. Like I had an old man, Jack, who's an old Westy, and he had a connection with the guy Whitey Bulger. And and why he used to fence the stuff up there because. Because jewelry. Good graduate, I sell Rolex, and all of a sudden it's yours, and you see somebody else wearing it in the neighborhood.

SPEAKER_02 44:06

Right, right.

SPEAKER_04 44:06

So you want to sell it far away.

SPEAKER_00 44:08

Right.

SPEAKER_04 44:08

So Jack would bring it up to Whitey. Whitey would fence it up there.

SPEAKER_00 44:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 44:13

And then one podcast guy said, So you bet what? I mean, well, meeting him and driving with somebody up there to give him something.

SPEAKER_00 44:20

Two different things.

SPEAKER_04 44:21

I mean, so they I don't care. And I'm not bragging. I live very comfortable.

unknown 44:28

Right.

SPEAKER_04 44:28

You know, you Google my name, my address. I live in a mansion. I mean, so I'm not talking out of jealousy. I'm just talking about why did he have to open his mouth?

SPEAKER_00 44:40

Now, after the question I was trying to get to was after Rudy dies, who do you go to on the street now? Because you don't have him anymore.

SPEAKER_04 44:51

That's a good question. Now, picture me now. I just took a 48-month charge, which there was no other way I'm thinking. I'm going away saying now when I get out, 20 years, I have no more Rudy.

unknown 45:07

Right.

SPEAKER_04 45:07

I had the Sherlock business with him, I lost it. My bookmaker business, who's gonna be a sick away about four years to pay me?

unknown 45:13

Right.

SPEAKER_04 45:13

They're gone. I'm coming home broke. And I did. Came home broke. Vinny Palermo sent for me when he heard I was in the halfway house. He sent Rudy's son because he was collecting Rudy's money for Millie, the mother. And Michael said, uh Unk, that's what they dictate him. Uncle wants to see you when you get time. Well, tell him I'm in a halfway house, and I got a lot of heat on me right now. And then days later, they so Joe Smash was there. He was a Colombo guy. He was around Wild Bill. That's a classy guy. Yeah, and I Billy was a man, and his son is a gentleman too.

SPEAKER_00 45:51

Yeah, I was another guy that I never had the uh pleasure of interviewing. But yeah, I've tried reaching out to him several times. But yeah, uh Bill Jr.

SPEAKER_01 45:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:00

Him him and Larry have have done uh some some work together. Like I think Larry has a show on a streaming on a streaming network. Um forgot the name of it, but then it's Mob TV and it's on a specific streaming network. It's an interview show. And he had interviewed uh um Will Wild Bill's son, uh Bill Jr. Uh I forgot the name of the of the streaming service, but what it doesn't matter. Um yeah. Uh Larry goes deep into the he was heavily involved in that war with with the uh with the Persicos and the Vicarina faction split, right? Yeah. Where were you during that time? Because this was the time where you were acting. This is the 90s.

SPEAKER_04 46:49

I'm rolling at that point, right? And I I and at that point, they were all picked up. I what year they pick him up with the war to 94, 95, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:58

That was it was in the 90s.

SPEAKER_04 47:00

I got pinched January.

SPEAKER_00 47:02

They literally took over Brooklyn House.

SPEAKER_04 47:05

I was there, so I was celllies with Larry. He had a kid named Brian Lindelman, his celly. He was one of those dirty wire fraud kids, but it's not good to have a celly. But when I come in, Larry says, Come on, Brian, you're moving.

unknown 47:22

Really?

SPEAKER_04 47:23

Matter of fact, somebody reached out, it's Joe Zapata or somebody.

SPEAKER_00 47:26

Yeah, he wants he wants the four of us to do a show together.

SPEAKER_04 47:29

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:29

Yeah, Joe, Joe's a great.

SPEAKER_04 47:31

I'd like to see Larry, I would.

SPEAKER_00 47:33

Larry, I mean, talk about a guy who gives back. A lot of these guys, uh they they want to get paid to come on. Which I don't I don't blame them, right? You gotta make a living. I get it. I fully get it. Like, I had to pay um John, I had to pay Gene, I had to pay um the guy that was from Springfield, Massachusetts, uh Bobby, Anthony Aliata. And I get it, but it got to the point where I was like, you know, it's kind of getting expensive. And I don't, I'm not a huge podcast, it's insane. Yeah, Larry never charged me a dime. He never ever and he's been on, I can't tell you how many times. Um anytime I ask him, it's never a problem. You know, I there there are certain guys that really do try to turn around, turn it around. He kinda he justifies the war. He says that the the people that he harmed before the war, he'll never forgive himself for. But he says that during the war it was kill or be killed. He didn't have a choice.

SPEAKER_04 48:41

He's right.

SPEAKER_00 48:42

And that's how, yeah, that's how he kind of justifies it.

SPEAKER_04 48:45

By Joe's smash, he was caught in a bad middle because he was around Junior's fraction.

SPEAKER_02 48:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 48:52

Then at one point, they transferred him over to the other fraction. When the war went on, Ali Boy and then send word to him. Now, Joe and me were like this every day. He send word to him, oh, you're going back over here. Billy said, You leave here, you're dead.

SPEAKER_00 49:09

Ugh.

SPEAKER_04 49:10

This poor guy was hiding in his house. Yeah, I stopped to pick him up. Jimmy Boy, that you he had the pistol. Yeah, Joe, it's me. I gave him the code word to say that's how it was bad. They were clipping guys putting up Christmas lights, they were killing him outside the house. Yeah, that used to be a no-no years ago. You don't take a guy outside his house.

SPEAKER_00 49:29

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 49:30

Like they took Jimmy Ratonder outside his house. Wrong.

SPEAKER_00 49:33

Yeah, that was that that it was all rules were off at that point.

SPEAKER_04 49:37

See, that's that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00 49:39

And um, it was yeah, that was a and I I mean I was a kid, I remember it. I remember um there was a guy that was messing around with Ali Boy's wife. I don't know if you remember that.

SPEAKER_04 49:51

I heard that story, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:52

And they apparently they uh killed him, but they also shot him in the balls to make an exam and left him in his truck. I think he had like a pathfinder or something like that. He was a restaurant owner, it was really, really treacherous stuff. Now, I had interviewed John and he was also on um a show called uh Soft White on the Belly. And he went into how he deals with it now. He says that he has tremendous PTSD uh medication therapy. Do you go through that too? Is it a do you he said he when he I interviewed him, he says if he gets an hour of sleep a night, it's a lot. Uh because he's just suffers from PTSD from all the violence that he's he's been through.

SPEAKER_04 50:36

I could believe that happened. I mean, it didn't happen to me though. I'll be honest. It's like uh military guys, it happens. I mean, being in the streets, especially Johnny Alight, he was like John Gotti's pit bull, you know what I mean? So, yeah, he you know, he probably he probably does. Yeah, you know, he should use that in court too. You know, his medical and he's got a heart condition. They should have gave the kid a bracelet. It was his best friend that he hangs out, 67-year-old guy told on him. The guy's not gonna go near Johnny A lot. You lock him on a bracelet.

SPEAKER_00 51:10

I mean, that's how I feel, but no, yeah, I I fully get it, you know. Um you it used to be a smack on the wrist, you know.

SPEAKER_04 51:19

And I just I think it's like Sammy the Bull. Look, Sammy the Bull got away with 19 murders, five years, whether he pulled the trigger, whatever. 19 murders, he got five years.

SPEAKER_00 51:29

Right.

SPEAKER_04 51:30

First time he got in trouble in Arizona, the ecstasy case, okay, right. He's not supposed to get 20 years. Come on. Yeah, no, you're 20 years of his age was almost life.

SPEAKER_00 51:41

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:42

But I he was my seller because when he came back with the Arizona case, they brought him to MCC Witsack, and I was getting they brought me down for fair to Witseck to get me shipped. I was getting ready to go out on bail in 05. Because I was in for five four or five years already. They said we're gonna put you on bail.

SPEAKER_00 52:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 52:01

Into the program. And I went into the program. But I when I was in there with Sammy, you know, and uh he kept kept he don't believe he flipped, I think. Sometimes I really think he thinks he's keeping it real.

SPEAKER_00 52:17

Yeah, he um I don't know. I you know, there's a lot of mixed stories. He clearly was, you know, John Gotti's underboss. Um, apparently he was responsible for 19 murders, but didn't actually pull the trigger on 19 guys. Um, the story I understand it was uh the one definite was a one one kid was very young, 16. Yeah, and he was just basically a witness.

SPEAKER_04 52:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:45

From what I understand.

SPEAKER_04 52:46

No, Sammy fired the shot.

SPEAKER_00 52:48

Yeah, I understand that your dad was the one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 52:51

Um that's uh But I don't think if Sammy knew he was 16 and knew he that wasn't his target, I don't believe Sammy would have shot him.

SPEAKER_00 53:04

No, I don't think it was intentional. I think I think it was he saw uh But some podcast guys don't make it sound that way. Yeah, I think it was I think it was look let's I this is what I think happens guys that are in the life, they take a chance and they're gonna take a chance, uh, not so much anymore, but back then they're gonna take a chance of getting hurt, getting killed when you deal with these these kind of people, okay? And then I think basically that there are you know uh innocent people that are just innocent bystanders, that it's just sad, and it happens. Um, you know, we're not talking about you know, snipers, you know, street guys using, you know, a nine millimeter, just fucking shooting it out. Yeah, uh, and has that ever happened to you? Did you ever actually rough up or hurt somebody that was not in the life innocent, um, but you took advantage of them because you knew he couldn't go to anybody?

SPEAKER_04 54:01

Not not physically, like shakedown people. Yeah, we shut people down, yeah. You know, now if they're making money like in a legitimate deli, no, but you got if you're a kid and you got a chop shop and you ain't with nobody, we're gonna try to because you're making good illegal money.

SPEAKER_00 54:20

Yeah, no, I mean like a legit dude.

SPEAKER_04 54:23

No, no, no, nothing like that. That that's unheard of us, yeah, yeah. You know, I was the type of guy, a military guy in a restaurant, I paid his bill. What do you say, Donna?

SPEAKER_02 54:35

Right.

SPEAKER_04 54:35

That's I always listen, them poor guys are fighting, leaving their family, fighting for us. They're the real heroes. We were the zeros.

SPEAKER_01 54:44

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 54:45

I mean it. I hate what I was. I did I enjoy times, the how good I lived, yes. But I did 16, almost 70, I don't even remember how many years 16, 17 in jail. That's almost a third of my life.

SPEAKER_00 55:01

Yeah. Now, what exactly were you in prison for? What were the charges?

SPEAKER_04 55:06

Uh I pled to uh a Rico, conspiracy Rico, uh murder racketeering, murder loan shocking.

SPEAKER_00 55:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 55:15

Two predicats.

SPEAKER_00 55:17

When you were in prison, did anybody test you when you were in prison?

SPEAKER_04 55:24

Well, fight?

SPEAKER_00 55:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 55:25

Oh, yeah, especially when you're not tall and tough.

SPEAKER_01 55:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 55:29

Yeah. I I mean, listen, I I lost, but I'll fight. You know what I mean? I'm not, you know. But when you go in and and you're not cooperating, right? You walk in, we hear you're tang. I mean, right away, bring you over. We know you're good. You're with us. Nobody's gonna bother you, right? You go where you let wear your shower shoes all day. Don't worry about it, nothing's gonna pop off. Because we had a good report with the blacks, with the Hispanics. We we got along good with everybody. We really did. Yeah, we had our own phone, our you know.

SPEAKER_00 56:02

Did you ever do did you ever do any work with other nationalities, like the Albanians, the Asians, uh, you know, any other nationalities?

SPEAKER_04 56:11

Russians, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:13

The Russians were huge, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 56:14

I did the thing for Lenny D Maria. Um he had a guy that just came home from jail and they got him a little apartment, helped get him on the feet, and they got a moving company to move some furniture over there, and the moving company was on 10th Street between either 3rd or 4th, or 4th or 5th. I don't remember. It's 35 years ago. And one of the guys moving the furniture got into a confrontation with Lenny's guy that they were moving the stuff in. So Lenny's guy, of course, stabs the guy. Didn't kill him, you know. The stomach was, you know, but the guy went to the house, but the guy told. So Lenny knew this was Rudy's neighborhood. So he came down and Rudy called me over. He said, You know, the people that I said, I know where it's at and all. And he explained the story, and he's can you do me a favor? Go over there and tell them we want to pay. You know, not shake down, like in other words, photos, pain and suffering.

SPEAKER_02 57:15

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_04 57:16

Just get amnesia. Got him, bottom line.

SPEAKER_02 57:18

Right.

SPEAKER_04 57:19

Forget about who stabbed you.

SPEAKER_02 57:20

Right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_04 57:21

So they made it, uh, yeah. Well, we'll talk to the guy, yeah, yeah, yeah. Poor kid's now, he's on a violation, everything. Finally, they agreed on a number, and uh we paid it, and then they didn't drop the charges. And then days later, Lenny, we met again, and Lenny, three days later, he said, I'll take care of that. They were they hang out in that cafe. I know where they are. Boom, the place got blown up, they got fireballs.

SPEAKER_01 57:52

Really?

SPEAKER_04 57:53

Now, I don't I Lenny never said he did it, you know, but I I would bet on it. Because Rudy told me, don't worry about it, because I told him, because they they were gonna, they were they were getting very like vicious at one point about the situation. They went from 10 to 20, then they were like, well, you know what? We're gonna we're gonna we're gonna go hard, we're gonna give the guy life. You know, it was a spot. Lenny said in a couple guys over there fired a bomb the place, I heard. That's what Rudy said, but yeah. Um but yeah, I did a lot of things. I mean, a lot. I did stupid things.

SPEAKER_00 58:30

Um bodies, um all the people you said you showed the paperwork.

SPEAKER_04 58:40

From all the doubters, it wasn't so much a doubt, like many uh guys said yeah, he killed a homeless guy. I like I I feel I was only involved in two, but they say three defeds. Because my the other guy we were partners killed him, and the guys ran out of my house when they heard he was down the block and shot him and killed him, and I got charged. So they put me down for a conspiracy to it. But the other two, no, there was no get out of those, no. Anyway, I you know that's the one I told you. The daughter reached out.

SPEAKER_00 59:18

I yeah, that that's gotta be heartbreaking. I can only imagine.

SPEAKER_04 59:22

Oh, I like it. I I I wish to God I could send the clock back, but I can't.

SPEAKER_00 59:26

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_04 59:27

I can't. You know.

SPEAKER_00 59:30

It is what it is at this point, you know.

SPEAKER_04 59:32

It's uh I mean, I I in that life, okay, tell you how treacherous it is. And and my own, well, he's like a godson to me. My best friend's son, he died. He said, watch out for my son. He wanted to be in the life, running this, running here, collecting envelopes, book making this thing. We go do a score in Jersey, a diamond score, uh Juula's house, and uh, we got pinched on God's state park. We got to Homedale. When we got to the highway, we're on Homedale Road. I don't know if you're familiar with it, but as soon as we got to the highway, it was a roadblock. State troopers.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:10

So the kid flipped on me. Make a long story short, Rudy said, give it to him. That was hard. I held him when he was the day he was born. Wow. Now what do you do? If you don't kill him, you're gonna get killed.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:25

Right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:26

Is that treachery or what? But what do I do?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:28

Yeah, well, those are the you know, I mean I brought him around, Rudy.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:32

Rudy had him running picking up stuff, this, that. So he's gonna hurt Rudy. Never mind me. If he hurts me, he hurts Rudy, I got a problem.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:41

Right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:42

I brought him around.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:43

And that that's what I mean. It's it's it's it's a you know, I know you know the story about the girl with uh Greg Scarper Jr. and his father. A girl that uh supposedly was sleeping with Alley Boy, I believe, I might be mistaken. And there was rumors floating around that um she was uh talking to the feds, and uh they told Greg Scarper and and uh and Junior, you know, she's gotta go. So they made out that um they needed a girl waitress, you know, at the club. So they tell her to come up, come by the club, and uh supposedly she comes to the club. Junior grabs her, throws her in in the club, and and Greg Scarper Sr. You know, shoots her several times. And it's a woman, it's a girl, you know, and nobody really knew, but it came down. Marry Barry or something like that, you know, and then I think Scappy comes into the club and says, Well, we're all going to hell now. You know, there were there were certain things that that's a no-no.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:45

Killing women, children.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:47

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:48

We're supposed to protect them. Right them.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:51

Okay, only a few more questions, man, and then um I'm gonna let you go. Uh you had this run-in with Gotti Jr., right? And everybody seems to be to know this particular story. And the story goes that Gotti Jr. wants you to move your bookmaking business, I believe, out of Howard Beach. Is that accurate?

SPEAKER_04 1:02:17

Bookmaking, Long Shot, and it was the firework thing that really brought it to a head. Okay. He called me up. I was my father lived on Coancy Street. He's hey Jimmy, I see your dad by your dad's. Can you do me a favor? I'm around the corner by Mikey D'Ambrosio or Joey D'Ambrosio. I might have, I don't remember his name. He handled his fireworks. I need to talk to you. I said, All right, I'll stop by. So I I went. I was I was cocked. Yeah, I had one of my because you know I had the beef with his loan sharking and book making years ago with his father. I had to take it out of his took a limousine company. So he says, Why ain't you buying from us? I says, Because I'm buying through Rudy's guy. I gotta do what my captain tells me to do. I'm playing that card. Yeah, yeah. He knew I was playing that card, he knew it was all me because I was selling fireworks since I'm a kid, you know. But then I became so big with it. I had a truck a day from the middle of April coming in to the warehouses, a whole tractor a day.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:19

Yeah, that was that was huge. Everybody sold fireworks back then.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:23

Yeah, but he said, You can't sell them in Howard Beach, you gotta pay. I said, Since when is a fucking toll boot coming to Howard Beach, you gotta pay. I said, listen, do what you gotta do. I'm selling them for Rudy. You got a problem, meet Rudy. He said, Sure, you want to go down that road? I knew what he meant. I knew I didn't I got home and my phone rang. Rudy says, You got a problem, come see me.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:43

As I know I do, yeah, yeah. So uh how do they uh go about it? Apparently there were six guys.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:51

To be honest with you, it could have been five, six. I got a couple of them barded, you know, running out of guys coming out of cars, there's so many of them.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:58

Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:59

I mean, pipes, bats, uh knives. I mean, I'm I you know, it was a rough night.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:06

Was uh Elite one of them?

SPEAKER_04 1:04:09

No.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:09

No. Uh do you remember? You don't have to mention names, but do you remember the guys who they were?

SPEAKER_04 1:04:15

Um, no, no, I don't. And I don't.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:20

It could be, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:22

And then when we would come to find out, there was a problem with another kid named Habey in the neighborhood. And he went crying to John Gaudi Jr.'s uh wife, Kim Albanese. And she went to John, he's like, again, another problem. Kid hold me bookmaker money. I told him I want my money. So he tells me, he said, Listen, I got three cars. You want one of the cars? I'll give you one of the cars. Okay. I want one of the Sawy dogs, on Copsy. I was like, I'll bring it to him, I'll sell it. The girl calls Kim, uh John Gotti's wife right back and says, He just took my husband's car. He demanded him to take it at gunpoint. What a lie.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:01

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:02

It's all a lie. I know he's I'd say if I did. I missed a murder. So now he's double bid. So now what do they do? They send a crew after me. So I turn up my block, Carroll Street. I knew that I knew I had a problem. I'm just waiting. You know, I'm I'm strapped. Two pistols on me, and a car puts a light on. Cop car. I said, oh, two pistols. You know they're in New York, you can't have a pistol.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:27

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:28

I'll correct the felon already. I throw the pistols under the seat. Also, I I got open the door and look, and I realized the guy's putting his gut. These ain't cops.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:38

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:38

At that point, I just went at him, but before you know it, every angle, I'm just it was listen, I don't care who you are. And yeah, I'm not a tough guy.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:47

No, uh yeah, no.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:50

I got I got my head. I mean, my head was wide. I mean, I mean, uh the rumor was you were in a coma.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:59

Is that accurate? That's right.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:00

Nine days. So you know, yeah, he can't fight. Well, of course you can't.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:06

There's six of them.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:08

You know, and I'm only five, six. I'm not a big guy. I don't I don't claim to be a cut, but I'll fight, no doubt about it.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:15

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:17

I'd shoot you in the hobby, not now more now, but that's how stupid I was. It's so easy to pull that trigger.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:24

You know, easy to get out of it.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:26

Not hard, not easy.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:27

It makes me believe you, right? I didn't know of you until the book, until the podcast. But just the mere fact that you are telling a story about how they put you in the hospital to be nobody would tell a story. Everybody wants to be the biggest tough guy in the world.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:46

I tell you exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:47

And nobody would tell a story with a big thing.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:49

There's one guy that was on our crew, they called him uh Frankie the Beast. Never did a fucking thing in his life.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:55

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:55

He was a robbed, he was a driver on one thing, and he chimes in and chimes in. The guy's got an IQ of 32.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:03

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:04

He told around telling everybody who was baby, there's nobody. He didn't even know how to make a quarter. They used to keep him hanging out around a cab stand to make money. And then they're all chiming in, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:14

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:15

Um you know about the haters. You're gonna, I'm gonna get haters.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:18

Well, it it was, you know, when I was young, yeah, absolutely. When I when I was young, uh in the late 90s, early 2000s, there were, you know, we used to call them bubblegum gangsters. There were a lot of guys that would just wannabes and just, you know, never had a job and would just wait for the scraps to be thrown at them and hoping and praying something. And, you know, I never said anything because I wasn't a street kid, you know. My like I said, my father would keep me away from that and tell me just go to school and whatnot. But I never had any real respect for any of those guys because my brothers were were were were contractors, they were electricians, and they would come home and they would be fucking dirty and they would bust their ass every day to make a living. And then you see these, I would go out with the guys. Um, we'd go to Bay Ridge, or we go to some spots in Stanton Island, you know, Bay Ridge was where all the clubs and were and bars and whatever zeals. Right, and we would go, and of course, we would wait in line because we weren't anybody special, right? Um, the only time I ever got let in was because I went to high school with Desiree Persico when she was there and she knew me, and she's like, Oh, yeah, come with me. And so I was, but other than that, you see all you would see all these guys, and I didn't know who they were, but they just they just like had this aura about them that it was just like I don't know. I just didn't have much respect for them, I didn't know them that well. They all had like um, you know, throw money around, they would pull up in the fancy cars or whatever. I didn't know any of these people, but to me it was like um when my father's day uh, you know, my father would have been 91 and he grew up in Red Hook, and there was a guy in the neighborhood uh named um Frankie Baranka. Everybody called him Frankie Martin, and he always drove a jalopy, he never moved out of the neighborhood. If he had to do a piece of work, he disappeared for weeks on end, you know. Um, and I was always taught that that was that was a gangster, the guys that kept it quiet, the guys that weren't.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:30

I drove a Jeep Wrangler with a red guy.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:34

Really?

SPEAKER_04 1:09:35

I did have a Corvette, but I only drove that on like a weekend about when I were the girls. But I drove a Jeep every day.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:40

Yeah, yeah, I took the carpet out, like I didn't care about stick shift, yeah, and um I I I always hated those guys, and they always got the girls, of course. And here I am, like in in like community college, like waiting tables, and I was working at the vitamin shop, and and the and and it was just it was just a time period of the late 90s where you had all these bubblegum gangsters, and then at the same time, if you remember, you had all these fucking financial investors that were making money, but the market was booming, so anybody could make money during that time, right? If you remember that time period, so I felt like everybody who had money but me, and my father would tell me, just stay in school. Which it did. You see those two degrees behind me? That's what I got. I'll fucking give them to you if you want, for fuck's sake.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:37

But went to college, got his master's.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:42

Um he wound up joining the mob, then he quit.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:45

Yeah, it was okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:46

It wasn't for him. Oh wow, it took him one night to collect money. That daddy's ain't for me. Yeah, it is life, isn't for me. Yeah, Joey's anything for me. Yeah, he's a good kid though.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:59

He's you know, it was like when I when I tried uh joining the football team in high school. I I don't think I ever told this story, but I was trying I tried to join the football team in high school, and uh I'm out there and I get blindsided, boom, and I just get up when I start walking off the field, and the coach goes, Where are you going? I'm like, Yeah, this isn't for me.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:21

No, I'm like you. I'm there's no reason for that.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:24

Yeah, fuck that.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:26

I'm not making money.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:28

Uh and now I just want your opinion on a couple of things, and I'm gonna let you go. I hate I'm taking up so much of you.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:32

Oh, don't worry about it.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:34

Jimmy Kalandra. He's another one that I tried because he's from the neighborhood. I tried getting him on, I wasn't able to get him to get him on. What's your opinion of him? From what I understand, he was just really a street kid.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:45

Tough kid, I heard. I don't really know Jimmy Kalandra. I knew his codifenders Gonzo and them. Um, though the that crew, uh I think lead the bandzo and them is is codifender, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:57

I I think so, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:58

I think uh that whole I I was away with I mean he went right back to his own house. Yeah, I heard he's a tough kid. That's all I heard about him.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:08

I don't yeah, I've heard that whole crew was crazy. You know, they were with uh Anthony Spiro, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:15

Well uh Joey Calco.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:17

Yes, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:18

Jolly Calco.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:20

That's right, that's right, right, right, right. I remember they were tough kids. Yeah, yeah. No, they look if if you were on Bath Avenue, if you were on 20th Avenue, you had you had you and you were part of that crew, you you you had to earn You had a beeper, yeah, yeah, you had a beeper, that's right. Putting your ass to work, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:36

They you know hey, they would they listen. They you know, the kid Paulie that got killed.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:41

Yeah, I know. And uh, yeah, the story. So this for people don't know the story, the story goes there was an argument between him and Spiro. He put his hands on Spiro, which obviously you can't do, and um his own his own crew uh tracked him down and uh and killed him.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:58

In his own house.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:59

Yeah, it was it's it's pretty it's look, it's a it's a it's a life that I'm kind of, you know, I kinda it's strange.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:05

I understand. You told you got like I told you, you told you gotta do it, you do it.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:09

Yeah, you don't have much of a choice if you want to live yourself, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:13:13

But you know, that's the way the feds won. They turned it where they could turn people on each other.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:18

Like here, listen, you're locked up. Nine out of ten will tell the opposite. You're facing life, you know you could go home.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:29

It's hard for them to say no.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:31

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:32

You know, and then you gotta say, oh you know, I I had nobody to come home to them because I had a whole family collapsed.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:41

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:43

I'm coming home as a free agent at the age of about I'd have been about 60 coming home to nothing. No family, no nothing.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:53

That's rough. That's that's rough. I I I I admire you for putting a life together. Um two more questions, man. This one's just purely out of curiosity. Uh John D'Amato, um, I believe he was the boss of the Cavicante family. And then they found out and then, and yeah, that's right. And then they found out that he was uh gay or he was uh bi. Is that is that was that accurate?

SPEAKER_04 1:14:18

Like I told Wade, I says, honestly, since when do we listen to women? Okay, and you as Anthony Cowboy, Anthony Watonda, why are you talking to the boss's girlfriend about sex? Yeah, how does that conversation come up? They wanted Corky with Storter in there, that's what I believe. Okay and them, they loved Corky. So when when the ego and uh when they when uh John Frankie D'Amoto took took over, they didn't want him. So they found any reason. So when Capel comes and tells them that the girl said he was in a swingers club, so you kill a boss?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:02

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you think that's what it was?

SPEAKER_04 1:15:05

They didn't want so what when I told Wade that because Wade was having that the agent on okay shamus gone, I said, Bring it up to him. He said, Because you you do make a valid point, says, When do we listen to women and kill a boss? Yeah, and he asked him that. He says, You're right, that is a legitimate. He told me I asked him, right. You know, I said it to Wade, and he said, You got a legitimate reason. But there was a second thing, the model was a degenerate gambler, okay. So he owed other families money, and John kept going to bath for him.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:37

So that John Gotti. Yeah, okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:41

You know, back then when he was around, right? Yeah, he liked him. And but they said it was because he was gambling owing all the families money. I never even heard that. Until Seamus said it on Hollywood Wade.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:54

Yeah. Um, yeah, because it it could very well be that it was just an excuse uh to get rid of them, you know. Um so today you were in the witness protection program, and then from what I understand, you left, right? Yeah. Okay. What made you leave?

SPEAKER_04 1:16:15

Well, you pretty much got rules, John. It's like uh you want to travel, they gotta get cleared. If I wanted to see uh my sister, sister say, for example, she passed away not too long ago. Great girl. Um let if I want to see her, I gotta make arrangements. The marshals will fly me to a neutral state, fly her to a neutral state. We spend two days and we leave. I signed out, keep you. I don't need your money.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:46

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:47

I don't need your rules, your money. Now, don't get me wrong, the marshal that handed me, what a gentleman he was. Okay, you wouldn't even know he was a guy. Credentials you wouldn't believe. Treated me like gold, like a loyal respect. Till today he's retired, till today he could call me in the middle of the night. I'll give my kidney if he needed it.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:05

Wow, okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:06

That's how good of a guy he was. So I came out here. I got dropped the middle of Arkansas by myself.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:12

Right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:13

You think about it.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:14

No, I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:15

I couldn't, I don't know with $130 in my pocket.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:19

Jesus Christ. So now how do you go from that? Because from what I understand, you're being you're very successful now.

unknown 1:17:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:24

So how do you go from that to actually um I think you own three car lots?

SPEAKER_04 1:17:30

Is that my yeah, and some dirks and uh locations? I I started out working my ass off, car dealerships and restaurants. I mean, I literally worked at John. I knew when I came home, I have no more mom and dad. I have nobody. If I fail, I'm fucked. I'm by myself. So I knew I had to put my ass to work, and I did. I worked seven days a week, and then I went to the dealership, worked seven days a week, and then I went about my own car lot there. I opened a restaurant there, Zach Swings and Sports Grill. I I had a breakthrough. That's how busy we got. I sold that. I sold property in Georgia. Then when I moved out here, I sold at least six to eight properties, maybe more. I did good on all of them. I live at a 7,000 square foot of home.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:23

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:24

Yeah. I'm on 10 acres. The privacy you pull my driveway, it's like your gate.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:29

So now do you all do your three daughters live with you?

SPEAKER_04 1:18:32

Well, my oldest one, I just she just bought our house. Um, she's getting married.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:38

Um, so I got just me and the two girls.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:41

But Natalie only lives um two miles. I made sure of that.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:47

Well, that yeah, I mean that's great, man, really. So you have I would I would venture to say that if it wasn't for them, uh, would you have tried so hard?

SPEAKER_04 1:18:58

No, yeah, because I like to live nice. I like nice food.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:04

I like to travel. I like you understand. I always live this way. I can't just get by and have a family. I want to give them the same thing I always had.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:11

Right, right.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:12

Whether I stole it, whatever, I had. Now I gotta make it legitimately.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:18

I do. I mean, I'm like a legal loan shark now. I do buy here, pay here a lot on cars.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:26

You know, so 20% interest, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:30

I know it's it's insane. The interest rates with cars.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:35

No, up in New York, it's 30.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:37

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:39

Down here, the max is I think uh 17. Yeah, 17. Yeah, it's you think about it, the profit you're making on the car, and then you're making the interest.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:48

Jesus Christ. It's it's unbelievable, man. It's unreal. Um, okay, Jimmy, it has been a pleasure. Here is the book. Go get it on Amazon. Uh Hitman tells all. Uh, I am definitely gonna read it. I haven't had a chance yet. I just got it today, but also go and join Jimmy's YouTube channel. It's called Jimmy Easy Mafia Life. Um you what you recently started the channel, and it looks like it's doing pretty good so far.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:16

In a week, I got 500 people already. I don't know if that's a lot.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:19

No, that's great. You know how long it took me to get 500 people? But yeah, the the one good thing is if you're a known, like people know you, it's gonna come. It's gonna, it's it's gonna come. The only other thing is you you know, people like uh controversy.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:34

So they like drama, and see that's what I'm trying to do is talk to people like you do a talk, you're talking about the old neighborhood, old people, but they don't want to get into you know, I don't I don't do drama unless drama comes to me first. And do I bring drama?

SPEAKER_00 1:20:49

No, no, not at all. Unless drama comes to me first, like um remember John Panisi wouldn't come on the show. He and he's he whoever was managing him made me fill out all this information about who I've had on the show and all the information about my podcast. So I sent it over to John Panese and whoever was mad. This was several years ago. And um they declined. And I was like, well, well, why? You know, and it was um there are certain people you've had in the past that uh uh you know we don't approve of. And I was like, I I I don't know what to tell you. So then I did a whole video on shitting on him, right? Yeah, yeah, but other than that, like but what was it?

SPEAKER_04 1:21:38

Who he didn't like the people?

SPEAKER_00 1:21:39

Was he I didn't never got a straight answer.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:42

Is he a cooperator? Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:44

I believe they all are, I believe so. Yeah, I mean anytime that could be. No, not at all. No, I had the worst person I had on, depending on your outlook, was I had a uh trans woman, a man that transitioned into a woman, and she was an amateur arm wrestler when she was a man, became a woman, and then became a world champion as a woman.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:17

And did you arm wrestle her?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:21

No, no, tell the truth. No, I swear to God.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:25

How close did you get?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:27

Yeah, to her, to this person, her him, to what did you call it? I know, I don't know, but to this person's credit, she went all the way. I mean, cut down, cut the meat and potato. What do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_03 1:22:39

Something you want to tell us?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:40

Yeah, yeah, cut the meat and potatoes all the way, man. Gone. He's claimed, gone, you know. Um, and uh that was the I had a former Klu Klux Klan member on. Everybody else was just, you know, knock around guys. I I you know, whatever. It is what it is. I don't know. But um, yeah, he had to decline me because of that.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:01

So uh yeah, I I couldn't imagine actually somebody give me a list of who you are. You ask him to sit with me. No matter what you did in the past. I don't care. You got a child molesto, that's all it matters to me.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:13

Yeah, no, it's it's it's serious. Yeah, I understand you don't like child molesters.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:18

No, you read my book, you'll read about it.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:19

Yeah, I understand you too you blinded him. You type you took his eyes out, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:23

Yeah, yeah. Well in Sopranos, Richie Apriya, still crazy enough to take the eyes out.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:29

Oh, that's Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:31

They all used to say that to me, What are you gonna do? Take my eyes out, joke with me. Yeah, everybody used to all my old crew used to joke around. What are you gonna do?

SPEAKER_00 1:23:38

Take my Yeah, but it's you know, it's uh street justice, as far as I'm concerned. And that goes back to what we were saying before, you know. If if anybody found out in that neighborhood or any of the neighborhoods that we grew up in that that was the case, I mean they would they wouldn't drop their head off. What the hell is it was it was it was it was unbelievable. Do you remember? I don't know if you remember this. This might have been going a little bit too far, but this was a true story. Remember Scalzal Realty? Yeah, Scalzal Realty had showed a black family a house in in Bensonhurst in the uh uh mid-80s, and I believe uh the next day when they found out they burned the Scalzell Realty building down.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:26

Yeah, he had the table out in the backyard. He used to just sit out there and eat.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:31

And and my father knew him. Oh, okay. Yeah, and that's that's it. You weren't at that time, you weren't going to bring in uh an element they didn't want. Yeah, that's it. And whether it was a child molester, uh pedophile, unfortunately, they did not want black people in the neighborhood, and um they uh uh if you were bad to women, I mean, they would take care of it themselves. And now it's like you're on your own, you know. The cops don't do shit. And we always did it.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:02

Neighborhood kids, like if they bothered girls. Rudy said this one night, me, Anthony Capel, uh this guy Hookie around Rudy. That was his like his ready man, he died. He had a daughter, Anna Marie, Anne-Marie, whatever her name is, and some guy gave a crack in a bar. Wow. The next night they said he'll be in there. And another guy, Victor Ha, he was deaf, so they called him Victor Hawk. You know, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not making fun of him. He's rest of the beast, he's up. We went over there, we grabbed this kid, we left him on the sidewalk. Yeah, you know, they just there was five or shit pounding away on him, yeah. And that was it. He learned he learned his lesson.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:45

Yeah.

unknown 1:25:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:46

Nowadays the cops they'll lock him up, send him to anger management, get him counseling.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:53

I mean, you know the story. You've heard the story, I'm sure, of that UFC guy in in LA in California. The UFC was a former UFC heavyweight champion. Uh I forget his name, but you could Google it. He sends his son to uh daycare. He's five. The guy in there, the uh the son of the people that owned it, uh, would take the kids into the bathroom to help them change. Right? So uh they call the police. The guy gets arrested, they release him the next day. Is that and and then um he just basically loaded up his Glock and went over there and sees him in his car with his father and I believe his mother, and he starts shooting at the car. He winds up shooting his father and not the kid, not the guy, the son that that touched his son. And he did like I think he just got out. That was like three or four years ago. So the guy that actually touched his son was out in one day on house arrest. He goes to retaliate, he did the right thing, he called the cops first, they did nothing, and he wound up doing four years in um in prison for it. And it's like, why is this ass backwards? What you know? And you get to the point where you feel hopeless. It's like, what am I supposed to do? Who do I go to? You can't go to the cops. You keep there's there's no more uh uh wise guys to go to to help, you know, and um what it what was his name? Uh I'll look it up, hold on, because it was uh UFC champion uh child. You you know him when you hear him. He was a huge heavyweight champion. Uh Kane Velazquez. Kane Velazquez, you know, and um so he made that decision immediately. As soon as they let him out, he goes, Well, I'm gonna kill him. That's it. You know, how do you blame him? How do you blame him? What is he supposed to do? You know, and this is where we're at now.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:00

So I always said I'll never commit another crime unless somebody bothers my girls.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:06

Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:07

You know, at that point, then all bets off. I don't give a fuck about nobody.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:11

Right, right. And I don't blame you, man.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:12

I'll do what I gotta do, but otherwise, out here you don't have that. Listen to me. Different, I'm in a different world. It is so relaxing. Good no, I don't have to walk outside my house with a pistol loaded, looking back and forth.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:27

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:27

I don't have somebody go get my car because I don't want to walk to the lot because get whacked. Yeah, it's all over with.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:35

But in Arkansas, it is a is it a carry state?

SPEAKER_04 1:28:38

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:39

Okay, so all right. All right, Jimmy, I'm gonna let you go, man. It was a very it was a pleasure, absolute pleasure having you on, and I really, really uh thank you for coming on, man.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:48

Um also my pages, if you could give me a plug. It's oh yeah, Instagram Jimmy underscore easy siroclo, tick tock, Jimmy underscore easy sirocko, and my book, of course. You you had it up, you got it already.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:04

Yes, that's right. I'm gonna make sure that your YouTube link, your Instagram link, and your TikTok link is in the description in this interview, and then people could just click and go.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:15

I appreciate it, brother. Anything I can do, you call me back anytime you want.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:19

Thanks a lot, Jimmy. I appreciate it, man. Have a good night.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:21

Have a good night. Thanks.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:22

All right, later.