John Livia and Larry Mazza call out a particular “active” Mafia boss that runs his mouth on YouTube

John Livia and former Colombo crime family associate Larry Mazza discuss one of the most controversial personalities in the online Mafia world.


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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

The guys that made a deal. And I see that all the time. You know, there's guys that are still supposed to be bosses or they're still active. They're doing podcasts. And they're out there basically slamming the rats.

SPEAKER_02 0:15

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_00 0:16

Do you need to do that as an active? If you're really active, if you're somebody, you need to go out there and do that. Are you doing that to make yourself look better? You need to do that to make yourself look better, to make yourself more of a man. You know, there's there's a boss of every family right now. I don't even know who they are. I really don't.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

Right.

SPEAKER_00 0:38

But let's just take the the uh the Colombo family. Whoever's in charge there now.

SPEAKER_02 0:44

It's supposed to be Teddy Percival, but I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

I'd rather just leave it.

SPEAKER_02 0:48

But he just got re-arrested again.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

My point is, okay, let's say it let's say it is him. I don't know that to be. And I'm not arguing with you because you're right there in the town and you know what's going on, but whatever. Do we see him on podcasts?

unknown 1:02

No.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Looking for trouble with okay. Who whoever's in charge of the Genovese family. I don't see him out there.

SPEAKER_02 1:08

No, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

I think the the guy that's in charge of the Gambino family, I was away with. And I liked him a lot too. I don't see him out there.

SPEAKER_02 1:17

No.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

So now you see this guy out there, somebody that's doing it.

SPEAKER_01 1:23

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

And it's okay. Yeah. But he he has a self, he he's motivating himself to do it. Maybe he needs that for publicity or to pump his own image up. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:35

But to me, this is one of two things. I will go. One of two things, the reason why I think this particular person is doing it. One, um uh, where he's from, the mafia is uh severely uh weak, and uh maybe there might be 10, 12 guys left. Um, he also knows there's not gonna be no repercussion because violence has been, you know, is an unspoken law. No violence is an unspoken law now.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

With no killings anyway.

SPEAKER_02 2:03

Right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

Here and there out of all the things.

SPEAKER_02 2:05

Or it's uh it's a deflection. Yeah. Or it's a deflection. What are you talking about? There's no mafia. I'm not a boss, I'm on podcast fucking talking shit and you know, opening restaurants.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

I'm not that's the best argument.

SPEAKER_02 2:21

Right.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

If that's the case, I say, oh, well, you know what, okay, that's cool. But if you got it, but then you shouldn't only have one motive.

unknown 2:29

Right.

SPEAKER_00 2:30

The guys that did it, which again, we already know that. You don't have to bash us.

SPEAKER_01 2:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

The public, let them make their decisions, you know, because I said I'll get a lot of people that come on and say, if I walked in your shoes, I don't think I would have done anything different. But if there wannabes, if there wannabes, they're gonna say, Well, but you well do the other thing.

SPEAKER_02 2:48

Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 2:49

So it doesn't even matter anymore because the whole life changed.

SPEAKER_02 2:54

Yes. Absolutely. No, you're you're a hundred percent right. I want to get back to Gotti, but we'll we'll stay on this topic. Yeah, you're you're you're a hundred percent right. Look, 99%. Back in the back in the 80s, early 90s, I would say, yeah, once the Rico law really started kicking in and the um the technology for the feds really started getting advanced. I mean, uh Giuliani and uh I think Gotti actually had a lot to do with it, where he's spitting in the government's face. Yeah, right. Excuse me. Guys get picked up for murder, they get picked up for assault, they get picked up for, and then they slap a Rico on you, and you go, okay, you know, you're looking at 20 to 30 years, you're looking at life, right? Yeah you know, um, that's that's what you're looking at. So now, if you back then, okay, let's say back then, you decide, you know, you are going to turn state's evidence, and people go, Oh, he's a rat, this and that. But let's take Greg Scarpa Jr. as an example. He didn't say a word. Nope. He did 32 years. 33. 33 years. Didn't say a word, came out to nothing. There's nothing left. He's working a me, he's working a menial job. He's gonna live out the rest of his life. I think he's in the 70s at this point, but he literally came home to nothing. It's not like the movies where you come home and you go back on the street. It that's over. So those are your two choices. You either do life in prison, die in prison, come home to absolutely nothing, right? Looking back now, or you turn states evidence and you change your life because you don't have a fucking choice. Right.

SPEAKER_00 4:41

Let me a couple things here. First thing I want to jump on the on the Gregory thing.

SPEAKER_02 4:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:47

You're right about everything except he came home and he did have help and he had friends.

SPEAKER_02 4:52

Oh, he did, okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:54

But most of them were guys like myself, right?

SPEAKER_02 4:56

Right.

SPEAKER_00 4:58

And it's half a dozen of us.

SPEAKER_02 5:00

Right.

SPEAKER_00 5:00

There were a few active guys that tried to help him.

SPEAKER_02 5:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:04

But you're right. It's not like he came home to a red carpet. You know, you know, I'll give you that. But he did have some help.

SPEAKER_01 5:11

Right. Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 5:12

And things happened and whatever. Uh but what would you say before that? There was another point you brought up.

SPEAKER_02 5:21

Uh well, it you had two choices. You know, in retrospect, you had two choices. You either turn state's evidence or you spend the rest of your life in jail and come home with almost nothing.

SPEAKER_00 5:31

From 86 on, yes. Before 1986, when they had the old law, right? You could kill two guys and cop out to 20 years and do 11.

SPEAKER_02 5:40

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_00 5:41

Because if you only had to do what, two-thirds or whatever it was, and then good time, you're looking at 11 years. Now, that's like a grand slam today, not even a home run.

SPEAKER_02 5:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:53

That's a grand slam. If you could get away with killing two two bodies, okay, or being a drug kingpin, making zillions of dollars with the bodies and copped out to that, that's what Gregory did first, anyway. He was lucky to be under the old law. But then he superseded, and all the new charges were new law, and he was never coming home, except for a compassionate judge. But not only him, there's others. So you're right. Pre-86, it wasn't so one way or the other.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

Right.

SPEAKER_00 6:23

You can negotiate, you know, all right, so 20 years, 18 years, come home in 10 years, and everything's fine.

SPEAKER_02 6:30

And you literally would be able to go back on the street and you would be rewarded. The mafia was so powerful, you would be rewarded. There were guys that did time, if if I'm correct, did time, kept their mouth shut, and got their button when they got out because they didn't sing anything. And right?

SPEAKER_00 6:46

Yeah, I could see that. Absolutely. But I'll tell you this, I've never, even way back then, you go away, you're on your own. Nobody, nobody kicks in, nobody helps with lawyers. It's all every man for himself.

SPEAKER_02 6:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:59

And that snowballed into a worse thing as years went on because sentences, the bigger fees with lawyers. It wasn't like, yeah, get you know, get this guy 15,000 and make a deal and whatever. Now it's like you got to pay 50,000 up front. You got three uh private investigators, and the family does nothing. I'm gonna tell you a quick example. On my case, we wanted to bring in Blakely, and Blakeley wrote the RICO Act. Okay, now there's like 10 guys on my case, and probably nine of them, because they were Persico's and Russo's, had a lot more money than I would have ever had. And they were fighting over should we bring Blakely in because he wanted 30,000 out of between 10 people? Come on. Right. So ultimately, Blakely told us, I won't eat, you know, I won't take the money to represent you because you can't win the case. You can't win.

unknown 7:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:55

What I'll do is for the 30,000, I'll sit there through your whole trial and I'll get you numerous, several appeal issues that will be winnable. So, okay, right, we get an appeal, so that's another 100,000 for attorneys. So that's not a win, but that's all he would give us. Okay. Then I remember my brother was talking to the attorneys, and they were talking about what we need is a jury consultant. And let me tell you something. Anybody going to trial, you better pay for that jury consultant. They're a lot of money, especially on a mob case. It probably would have been, you know, back then it was probably an extra $100,000. But again, 10 guys, and my family was ready, my private family was ready to kick in. They don't want to go for money. Think about that. Okay, but you need a jury consultant because you only need one jury in there that's going to be a true peer of yours, not a fake jury that they put together, you know, in their jury pool. You need that one that that jury consultant would say this guy will not like the government, or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 9:08

I don't I didn't even know that that was a thing.

SPEAKER_00 9:10

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I almost did it on my case, this stupid case I just had in Florida.

SPEAKER_01 9:18

Right.

SPEAKER_00 9:18

Because I said, I know that's all it's gonna come down to.

unknown 9:20

Right.

SPEAKER_00 9:23

You know, and my attorney brought in uh another attorney, and it's funny because I'm sitting there, my attorney goes outside, and there's this other attorney sitting there, and he's stuck outside with doing some other business with other clients or whatever. And the judge walks in and he says, Who are you? To the he says, Well, uh Mr. Jermaine, my attorney, says uh he wanted to bring me in to help out with some things because he's very bad. Whatever he said, I don't even remember. So the judge looks at me and he says, Mr. Mazza, is it okay with you that you have another attorney on board? And I told him, I said, Your Honor, when I'm paying them, it's certainly okay.

SPEAKER_01 10:08

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_00 10:09

He laughed, everybody laughed, but the point was he brought him in because he's very good with jurors. He sat next to me while we were going through the jury pool, we're making notes, and all my notes matched his.

SPEAKER_01 10:19

Right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_00 10:20

For the most part. So, anyway, but he wasn't like a high price, like that kind of money. He was just our attorney, and you're talking about a few thousand, you know, whatever it was for my nonsense case. But the point is, it's a big difference. Anybody going to trial, if you're really facing big time, you want a jury consultant.

SPEAKER_02 10:39

If you don't have it, that's amazing. I didn't even know that was that was a thing.

SPEAKER_00 10:42

I'm researching. You could do it.

SPEAKER_02 10:43

Yeah, I am. I'm actually am going to research it. So, yes, there are guys on and and getting back to the guys that claim to be bosses and and coming on podcasts. Yeah. Um it's I'm honestly, it's pathetic. I and I think a lot of a lot of the the mafia genre on podcasts become pathetic because it's like if you want to do like what we do and talk about what it is and whatnot, but if you want to go on a podcast and like start social media friction, start social media beefs, right? And then say this one looks like this, or that one looks like he got his lips injected, and that one look it's like, dude.

SPEAKER_00 11:33

Are you kidding me?

SPEAKER_02 11:34

Growing up beneath you, it's beneath you if you weren't involved in the life, yeah.