When Ghosts Call Out

AOTP EP:8 Tonight, I speak with Joe, a law enforcement officer who comes to us from Ohio, sharing his paranormal accounts that began years ago, when he heard the voice of his deceased father calling him out from beyond; to being dispatched to a local cemetery from a 911 call at 2:30 in the morning, to arrive and finding no one there. 

If you have an account to share and would like to be a guest on the show, email me at show@accountsoftheparanormal.com and tell me what you saw!

Accounts of the Paranormal -

Creator/Producer/Host: Gino Barreto

WEBSITE: https://accountsoftheparanormal.com/ 

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Accounts of the Paranormal (theme song) 

Written by: Gino Barreto / Produced by: Kobe Ofei

All music produced by: 

Kobe Ofei https://www.fiverr.com/kobeofei 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Welcome to the show. Tonight I speak with Joe, a law enforcement officer who comes to us from Ohio sharing his paranormal accounts that began years ago when he heard the voice of his deceased father calling him out from beyond to being dispatched to a local cemetery from a 911 call at 2.30 in the morning to arrive and finding no one there. Joe, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me. Really excited.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

Oh, thank you for being here. I I really appreciate you reaching out and coming on the show. Um I know you've had experiences going back to when you were younger. And the the most significant one that really kicked it in for you was related to your father. And I think we can start there if you don't mind. Tell me about uh that experience and what happened. And just go from there and tell us what you've been experiencing since then.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

Yeah, sure. So uh it was back in the late 90s. Um, my father, who at the time was living with with his mother, my my grandmother, uh, there was uh a series of unfortunate events that took place kind of at a party. Uh ultimately my father was murdered in the home of my grandmother. Um so fast forwarding after you know the death and excuse me, services, uh a cousin of mine and I were visiting our grandmother uh one evening, and I went to use the restroom before we were departing. And as uh as I was getting ready to come out, I heard very clearly, very audibly, almost as if he was standing right there outside the door, say, Hey buddy. Um so I come out of the bathroom and I kind of look at my cousin because I'm thinking, like, you know, dude, why would you why would you do that? And he's looking at me, uh, just tear-eyed, just huge eyes, pale as could be. He heard it to um the hey buddy, and it was so significant because my dad never called me by my name. My dad always called me buddy. Uh don't really know why, just kind of always what he called me. Um and it was very clearly uh d directed at me. And what's so significant about it is uh that's the the location in which my father was murdered. Um calling me by a a very uh specific name that would resonate only with me. Uh I mean, cousins and family knew that I was called that, but for more than one of us to hear it, um it's just it was astonishing. And I know that's not a very long story or an in-depth story, but most all of the paranormal experiences I've had have been very, you know, quick, sudden, almost snapshots, if you will, of a paranormal side.

SPEAKER_01 3:36

What were your thoughts after this took place?

SPEAKER_00 3:39

So initially, I I feel like there was a shock value, obviously. Um, no one was expecting it. Uh we didn't really know what to think. Uh needless to say, it was a quiet ride home. Um, other than like, you heard that? Yeah. You heard that? Yeah. So we both heard it. We both knew that it happened. Um, but we really didn't know what to make of it. It was such a uh, again, just such a shock. No one was expecting it. It came out of the blue. I mean, we'd been there for you know, probably a couple hours visiting, you know, grandma and um, you know, just kind of hanging out and and still dealing with emotions and feelings. And um so I mean, that also makes sense. And I know we'll talk some more uh of this part in in later here in the the show, but um, the emotion was high in that that residence. So I kind of feel like looking back now it made sense, but in the moment it was just really shocking. Um very quiet ride home.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

I can imagine. You knew in the moment it was your father when you heard it. Did your cousin know it was your father as well?

SPEAKER_00 4:50

Oh, absolutely. Um again, you know, it was it was a uh kind of a nickname that, you know, family and and close friends knew that's what he called me. Um, and that's why the expression rests on his face as I came out of the restroom, um, kind of gearing into that response. I I remember he was waiting to use the restroom as well before we left, but he didn't. He's like, we're good, we're leaving, we're we're out of here. Um, so I know he was a little, he was a little uh shaken by that. Now he's a few years older than me, too. So it was kind of one of those, um, you know, knowing him, he's always kind of been a I don't want to say macho, but kind of a more fearless, like he was always getting me into doing things that were a little more risky and uh, you know, things like that. So for him to be so shaken, uh it it it really said something.

SPEAKER_01 5:39

Was there anything else associated with that disembodied voice where were the senses or concern, or was it just limited to the voice?

SPEAKER_00 5:49

For me, it was just the audible. Um and I I don't know that my cousin really ever felt or experienced any other part. Um, obviously, immediately after hearing it, you know, there was the cold chill and the the hair standing up and things like that, but uh I feel like that was more of um kind of sensory and emotional response rather than uh you know, cold spot or a touch or or anything like that. Um cousin never really said, never really talked about it a whole lot after that. Uh we did once or twice. Um, but no, that was that was pretty much it in that moment.

SPEAKER_01 6:29

Did anyone else ever express experiencing anything in that home after this or at this time since then, maybe? Or was that the only event?

SPEAKER_00 6:39

No, that was the only event uh for me. I never actually, you know, looking back at it, we never really went back there, but maybe once or twice for very limited visits. Um and I almost kind of, you know, it's it's weird because you know, my dad, you would think that maybe want that connection or experience, but I think it felt so odd and unnatural in a way. Because, you know, in in my mind, I'm like, he's gone. So why am I hearing, you know, why am I experiencing? Why am I getting these things? Um, so I mean, obviously, you know, if I could turn back the hands of time, I would want to go back now because I understand so much more and um would want to look into that and and have those experiences. In some ways, now it's kind of like, I guess you would say maybe the goal or the dream is to have that encounter and kind of capture it and maybe try to study and explain it. But at the time, um having lost my dad, I'm also like, no man, I want out of here, you know. So um, yeah, no one ever really said that they had any experiences, and we never talked about it with anyone else, um, mainly because you you know how this things like that were all at your imagination, or you're you're just you're emotional because you lost your father. Um, but it was it was very clear that there there was something more there.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

And any other of the other experiences that you've had since do you associate with your father, or you don't believe it might be him?

SPEAKER_00 8:17

Um I guess in some of the experiences I've had since then, uh related to paranormal or paranormal like, I guess they could be. I don't have you know any major flags or signs screaming that it is. Um, so I'm not gonna rule out the possibility that it could be, um, but I don't have any evidence suggesting that it is.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

Let's talk about the the knocks you've heard in the in the in that old farmhouse that you were living in on that bedroom door. Let's talk about that experience.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

Oh, so this one, uh, my wife actually experienced this uh with me. Children did, but they were super young at the time. Um, so we lived in an old farmhouse in rural Ohio. Uh, and when I say old farmhouse, it was built probably late 1800s. Uh, had since been renovated, but uh original structure was built late 1800s. The way the the house was set up, so very old school, obviously, there was a door that led from the master bedroom into the primary living area. But there was also a door off of the back hallway, which also led to the bedroom. Um, because there was two doors, the way we set up the house, we basically blocked off the door from the bedroom to the living room with a crib for our youngest, and we used the hallway door. That was just it was easier and made more sense. So doors completely blocked off, not accessible to be traversed through. We're in the living room, watching TV, relaxing, we're all sitting on the couch or in chairs or whatever. It's me, my wife, and uh our two, our two sons. Uh, daughter wasn't born yet. Um, so we're sitting there just kind of relaxing, watching TV. It's early evening. So we're talking probably seven-ish. And very clearly from the bedroom side of that door were three audible knocks, like someone knocking on a door. There's no one else in the house, no one else lives there. Everyone who lives there is literally in the living room. Um, and the wife and I just kind of look at each other, and you know, we're so we immediately start going to the, you know, maybe something fell outside the house, or you know, we're trying to rationalize. Um, but there's no way. It very clearly came from the bedroom side of the door, very distinct, three just three raps at the door, just very audible, distinct knocks. I mean, that microsecond pause between each rap at the door. So I'm like, well, I don't want to, but I kind of feel like, as you know, the man of the house, I've kind of got an obligation to maybe go check the back door and um, you know, check the bedroom, make sure no one's in the house, nothing, you know. I mean, it's an old farmhouse. We live in the country, you know, and nothing got in the house, you know, no raccoons or possums or skunks, you know, nothing like that. Kids, you know, make sure they didn't leave the door open or uh and there was nothing. I went, I looked, uh nothing. Just very uh very interesting. The house looking back and talking with the wife, you know, immediately after it happened, you know, we kind of had that, we both had a sense that there was maybe a little something more. The house had more energy than than one might expect. Uh, so it kind of made sense that there would be something. But at the time, you know, we're we're a young couple and raising children. We're not thinking, you know, ghosts or anything like that in our home. We're just trying to have a home and raise kids and but you're very interesting experience.

SPEAKER_01 12:09

Did anything else ever happen in that home? Or was that the only experience that that stands out?

SPEAKER_00 12:15

There were times, so there again, looking back, there were things that we noticed that happened that we didn't think about in the moment. Um, but now kind of equating some of these things. Uh, for example, I made breakfast one morning, I left the pancake mix in the box on the counter, you know, cleaned everything else up, uh in a rush to, you know, do whatever we were doing for the day. I just didn't put it back in the cabinet. And I very specifically remember leaving it on the counter, but when we came home, it was on the floor and kind of spilled. Um so you know, we're just like, oh, you know, must have left it on the edge of the counter. You know, thinking I'm no, I didn't. Because the way the house was set up, like when I sat it down from using it, it would literally have been in the middle of the counter. Um, there were things that we would come home at times and we had a pantry in the kitchen, and there would be a couple, you know, cans of green beans or something, whatever it was, on the floor. Um, how do green beans just randomly fall out of a pantry and like open the door and land on the floor? Um, so I mean, looking back, there's things we're like, that doesn't make sense. But in the again, in the moment, we're just like, oh, you know, maybe one of the kids was messing around and we just didn't know it. And it that happened before we even left. Um so I mean, in the moment we weren't thinking about it, but just random things now, you know, and I say now being since we've moved out of the the home and uh just kind of in conversation, she and I talking now, we're like, that that makes sense. There was something else.

SPEAKER_01 13:54

Yeah, I'm I'm gonna go along with that as well. I think some of those things you've described were probably likely related to that. You just didn't put it together at the time. You and I totally understand. You know, you're you're trying to make sense of what happened. You're trying to just be rational about it. Oh, it was probably this, or you know, you blame yourself. Oh, I put it too close to the edge when you know you didn't, you know. So yeah, I definitely think some of the things that were were going on were probably related.

SPEAKER_00 14:19

Well, and even in the moment, just uh and you know, pretty much everyone can relate to this. Young couple raising children, you know, we got work, we got school, we've got laundry, we've got dishes, we've got dinner. You don't necessarily have time with two young children to stop and go, wait a minute, I wonder if that's paranormal. No, you're like, I gotta put these green beans up, I gotta get to you know the laundry and then I gotta wash dishes, and I still have to make dinner. You don't have time to to stop and think about it.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

100%. And let's uh let's move on to your law enforcement era here, uh Deputy Sheriff. That is awesome. Thank you for your for your service and for the community there. And uh an encounter that you had, which to me is kind of straight out of a unsolved mysteries episode, honestly. Uh really, really kind of creepy. Uh regarding that 911 call. Talk about that one.

SPEAKER_00 15:13

Yeah, so uh I've been in law enforcement at the time. It was probably closer to uh 12 to 15 years. Um it was fall-ish, I want to say maybe around November. I was working um rural county here in Ohio. Um, I was working a very weird shift. I work kind of a swing shift, so I work things like you know 8 p.m. to 4 a.m., um hours like that kind of overlapping the traditional shifts. And I'm working one night. It's probably two, three o'clock in the morning. Uh, I was responsible for the southern half of the county. Um, get a 911 call, dispatch relays it over. There's a 911 call coming from the local cemetery, which is kind of interesting because you're thinking, you know, two, three o'clock in the morning, a 911 call coming from a cemetery. Uh so on one hand, I'm kind of like, okay, that's already weird as it is. However, knowing the local, you know, population, a lot of people tend to cut through the cemetery, uh, you know, getting from one place to another, they'll cut through the cemetery, um, and just kind of expedite their walk rather than go around. So I'm thinking maybe somebody went, you know, trekking through the cemetery, fell down, maybe hit their head, you know, who knows? Uh, but there was no, it was just a 911 call. There was nothing on the other end, no answer on callback. So, which that means the dispatchers tried to call that number back. Hey, what happened? You know, what's going on? We got a 911 call. Uh, so you know, thinking maybe if it were a cell phone, maybe it was a miss dial, or you know, with the new technology, I know there's been times where my phone's literally been sitting on the table and something get hit or bumped, and it's suddenly going into like emergency services mode. Nevertheless, no response on this callback. So I start heading to the cemetery. I get there, I patrol the cemetery, every avenue that can be driven through, getting out at major points, shining lights around, calling out. There's no one there, there's no answer. There's literally nothing going on there. The interesting thing about this is the address to the cemetery, the numerical address is 911.

SPEAKER_01 17:34

Yeah, that's just that's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 17:36

It's, you know, and for all intents and purposes, coincidence. However, when you're pairing that 911 calls are coming from a cemetery at two or three o'clock in the morning, and the address is also 911, it's just it's just a creepy experience. And it's something that it only makes sense if you were there and really saw it and heard it and experienced it. Uh, you know, even going back, I went and met with the dispatchers, and I'm like, you know, you guys are playing a you know prank on me. This is a joke, and they're like, no. I mean, they really pulled up the call, they they pulled up the call log, they pulled up the information uh showing me this this really happened.

SPEAKER_01 18:16

Yeah, that's that's strange for sure. So the call basically the number is associated with like the cemetery, maybe the offices, administration of that cemetery. Is that where the call came from?

SPEAKER_00 18:31

No, the call came from a cellular line. Oh, okay. And I know there's a triangulation that's involved in that. However, um, for the call to be triangulated as it was and knowing this area, uh, someone would have had to have been in this. I mean, this is we're talking of this is a pretty large cemetery. Um, so the way the triangulation works is based on the cell towers, and it gets far more into the technological uh aspect than I'm even remotely qualified to talk about. So I won't get too deep into it because I'm not gonna make myself a liar. But you would have had to have been in that cemetery.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

Gotcha. Yeah, now I understand it better. Forgive my ignorance too, as well, regarding where the how the how it works, but okay, so it came from a cell tower.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

So Yeah. Yeah, so the the 911 call that came in, it did come from a cellular device. Uh the triangulation pinpoints kind of where the call came from. So it was located to be within the cemetery. Now, knowing the area, uh, the call would have had to have come from the cemetery. I know people walk through there, but the next closest, you know, set of apartments or houses. I mean, we're talking at the time, I know triangulation and cellular uh technology is far better now. I mean, this has been um almost 10 years ago, but pretty sophisticated at the time, but far more advanced now. Um, they would have the cemetery's very large. They would have had to have been in the cemetery. So uh now, however, I will say, you know, again, with today's technology and all the different apps we have on the phone, that part doesn't really strike me as odd or bizarre because with all the like, you know, the WhatsApp and things like that, there's number hopping technology. So I don't have a primary service, I don't have a primary number, I can download this app, I can get a quote unquote number to use to call or to text, but it's just kind of that. Once you don't use that number anymore, it just gets shuffled back into a mix. But I mean, thinking now and knowing some of what I know and having learned some of what I've learned, um not to get too off topic, but when we look at say um, you know, white noise or um, you know, trying to do spirit box investigations, uh energy can manipulate technology. So did energy manipulate technology?

SPEAKER_01 21:11

How soon did you arrive from when the time the call came in? I was like, was there a chance that someone might have been in there, did a prank call, and then bailed before you arrived?

SPEAKER_00 21:23

Having been in law enforcement as long as I have, um, I'm gonna immediately say, is it possible? Absolutely, um, to answer the question. I was maybe five to seven minutes away. Um, so I mean, again, someone could have absolutely made that call and and not been there by the time I got there. Very possible. Um, and I'm not gonna say that that isn't the case. What I think makes this story so unique and so mystifying and so creepy is not so much that is or isn't paranormal. It's more the just odd, eerie circumstances that a 911 call comes in, no answer, no response, no answer on callback, and the address to the cemetery is also 911. Um, and I didn't I didn't even know that I'd been a deputy in this area for a pretty lengthy time and had no clue. Um, and I guess to be more specific, I guess the radio traffic would really help sell this and tell the story. And again, I'm not I'm not saying this is or isn't paranormal, but very creepy. Um the radio traffic, the way it came across was my unit number was called out. I answered 911 call, no answer on callback from 911 uh Manchester Avenue. So I'm like, okay, so I head to that area, and when I get there, I'm like, wait a minute. And I is 9-11 Manchester Avenue the cemetery, and the dispatch acknowledged that it was. Um, so it was kind of a whoa, because I didn't even realize that. Oh no, um, yeah. So I mean, that one's just more of a you know, could that get really much creepier? I mean, if you're already going to a cemetery for a 911 call, I mean it's three o'clock in the morning. Um, and now for me, I I guess my immediate mind went to uh so I I'm a lover of I know this is gonna shock everyone, but I'm a lover of you know, like horror movies and sci-fi. And so I'm a huge Twilight Zone fan. And there's an episode of Twilight Zone where a phone line is on a headstone and it's the woman's husband's headstone, so he keeps calling his wife. So I'm I'm immediately going to you know, like the Twilight Zone mindset of like someone calling from a great, you know, like and I'm not trying to make it humorous, but I'm immediately like, okay, this is just weird.

SPEAKER_01 24:00

Oh, yeah, for sure. For sure. Were you were you did you feel creeped out at the time, or were you just you were in law enforcement mode? And how did you feel at the time? What did you think about it?

SPEAKER_00 24:10

So a little bit of both. Um, you know, full disclosure, I spent, you know, 14 years in the army. Um, you know, I've been in law enforcement for over a decade at that point. Um I've worked in some pretty rough areas and some pretty weird areas. So not a lot really kind of surprises me or shocks me. I'm not easily shaken. I'm more of a, okay, kind of logical. Um, even with the paranormal experiences I've had, I'm like, okay, but what else could it be? And not not so much because I want to just immediately rule out paranormal. That's not the case. It's more of I kind of want to eliminate every other opportunity or possibility or cause to show, okay, well, this just is paranormal. Um, you know, as uh Arthur Conan Doyle said in several of the Sherlock Holmes books, you know, when you remove all possibility, the only thing left is reality. Um, so I mean, I kind of go through that mindset of, okay, well, what could this be? And, you know, I'm thinking the same thing like you're asking. I mean, very reasonable person, uh, which I believe you are. The first thing you kind of think is, well, could someone have been there? And so I'm thinking that. I'm like, yeah, someone could have been there. Um, you know, would that be the first time that's ever happened? No, absolutely not. Um, but I'm also kind of like, dude, I'm getting a 911 call from a cemetery at 3 a.m. Like, that's how horror movies start, okay? For sure.

SPEAKER_01 25:42

Any other strange events uh during your law enforcement time kind of related to this one that you can recall?

SPEAKER_00 25:51

Oh if so and not necessarily directly related to this one. Um I have had some some pretty strange calls in the past. Um, you know, things that you would typically only see on like TV. Uh you know, I've been called to homes where um, so I will give an example. Uh a young, yeah, I say young man, he wasn't exactly young, but uh two brothers lived in uh trailer together. Um neither one of them were of the best health and had some mobility issues and a number of other other things. Uh one brother calls in, says, Hey, you know, I haven't heard from my brother in in a while. And um I'm hearing some noise back in his room, and I don't think he's back there. So I'm like, you know, hey, where are you at? You know, I work in a small town. So I mean he called directly to the police department. I was there to answer the phone. I happen to be typing a report, so I was at the desk. He tells me his address. I I go out there and uh meet him, meet him at the door, and he goes, Yeah, it's still still going on. I still hear the noise back there, and I'm telling you, my brother's not here. And I'm like, okay, well, where is your brother? He's like, Dead. And I'm like, what do you mean? Like, because I'm thinking now, like, I mean, is he dead back there? Or what do you what do you mean? Um, he's like, No, my my brother died like three weeks ago. And then it kind of I remember reading, you know, a report relating the address, and and um, yeah, brother had passed away. And no, no, no foul play or anything, just went to bed one night, didn't wake up the next morning, kind of situation. Um, and that was discovered because brother's like, you know, he usually comes out to get his morning meds, and I've not seen him, I can't go check on him. I I need some help. And uh the other officer, the morning officer, went out and and done that. Um, so that was a that was kind of a weird. I go back there and there's there's nothing. Um, you know, could be being a psychology student. I'm thinking, you know, emotion. Um, you know, he's anticipating hearing his brother back there because he's always heard his brother back there. So he feels he hears his brother back there. Um, but yeah, I mean that was that was one of the strange calls. I think the the only other this one just outright shook me uh was an event that actually happened at the police station. So I worked for uh a small town police department, and we had an office that was above the municipal building. So when you walk in the front door to get to the police station office, you had to actually go up a flight of stairs. So you got to understand a little visual here. You're walking up a flight of stairs, there's a landing at the top. If you go to the left, you immediately go into the police office. That's where our desks were. That's that was our office. At the top of the stairs, just a veer, slight right veer, led to a restroom. And then everything to the far right, or you know, the hard 90-degree right was record storage. The traditional eerie, creepy, scary, dangly light was at the top of the stairs, dangling from the ceiling. So as you go up the stairs, if you are in the hallway or on that landing and you're moving around, it casts a shadow, obviously. Well, I happen to be in the office. It's again, I'm working crazy, weird graveyard shift hours. So I go into the office doing some things. Every time I go into the office at night, I lock the door behind me. Well, obvious reasons why. I don't want someone sneaking up the stairs or you know, coming into the police station unannounced. They can ring in and I can come down and meet them at the door. There's no one there. This is, you know, four o'clock in the morning. I'm off at like 6 a.m. kind of shift. Type in a report, have to use the restroom. This is going to sound very odd, but I always left the door to the restroom open so I could hear if someone was ringing the buzzer at the front door. So I go in and use a restroom. While I'm in there, I see a shadow get cast on the wall like someone's walking past. So I immediately go out back out into the hall to see if someone's there and there's no one there. The computer in the office starts playing music. So it's really creepy. I found out why the computer was playing music, but it's odd that the shadow was cast on the wall beforehand. The reason the computer started playing music was someone had music open on the computer. The computer did a reset, so when it kicked back on, it went back to playing music. That made sense.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

Strange timing, though.

SPEAKER_00 31:00

Oh, yeah. I mean, enough that I was like, okay, I'm gonna go ride around for about another hour and a half.

SPEAKER_01 31:11

When people go up those stairs, do you hear footsteps, or were you able to hear footsteps if somebody was coming up the stairs, or no?

SPEAKER_00 31:18

So they were the kind of stairs that if you really wanted to be stealthy, you could. I mean, you would have to go slow and step light. But they were also the kind of stairs that if someone were just walking up normal, you would hear them. And that's what made it so weird is there wasn't enough time from me walking out of our office and stepping in there for someone to be as, you know, stealthy as they would. I mean, you can go up those stairs quiet, but you got to really take your time and plant your feet slowly and softly. I mean, we're not talking five stairs, we're talking probably 15, 20 stairs. So, I mean, it would have taken some time, and I would have seen that person. They would have had to have been in the hallway when I walked out of the office to make it up to the landing to walk by. Um, so yeah, I mean, it's it's pretty it's pretty wild. Um what do you think that was? What I think it was. Um so the town has a very unique past. Um once upon a time, there was a distillery in that town, and the primary method of transportation for that uh liquor was the railroad. Uh the railroad ran literally right up to the distillery and then, you know, obviously on. And a lot of people trying to steal liquor lost their life on that railroad. And the railroad was right behind the municipal building.

SPEAKER_01 32:56

Did any of the other um personnel at the office ever report anything similar to what you had experienced?

SPEAKER_00 33:04

So I was a sergeant on that police department, and I can tell you I had an officer who absolutely refused to spend any more time in the office than was necessary. At first, I took that as, you know, I mean, kind of young officer knows that one, I'm the kind of guy, if I don't have to be in the office, I want to be on the road. Why? Because that's where I need to be for one. And two, nothing's gonna happen in the office. If I'm catching crime or busting bad guys or doing my job, it's gonna be outside of the office. Unless I'm interviewing someone or doing paperwork, law enforcement doesn't take place in the office. So, especially if you want to be a proactive officer. Uh, so I kind of took that as like, yeah, man, you go get him, you know. Um, but the more I talked to him, it was he was very uncomfortable in the office. Never would really say why. Just, I just don't like being in there, just I don't feel right being in there. And now I'm hearing it, and I'm like, I know why you didn't feel right. You were picking up on the energy or whatever it was. Um I'm hearing it in the moment, like, you know, as a as a supervisor, I'm like, this is a go-getter, you know, this is a good guy. And now I'm like, I'm not saying he wasn't. He was a very good officer, so I don't want it to sound like that, but I'm hearing it in the sense of he's meaning it doesn't feel right to be sitting in the office when he should be on the road when what he's really saying is it just doesn't feel right.

SPEAKER_01 34:36

Yeah, I guess that answers my question.

SPEAKER_00 34:39

Yeah, and you know, looking back now, I would have loved to have had, you know, one, some of the technology that we do today, you know, I would have loved to have had like, you know, a camera running 24-7, you know, catching some of this. So, you know, these stories are caught on camera. But at the time, you know, that just wasn't, you just don't have that. Um, and besides, who runs around? I mean, I'm sure some people do, but most people don't run around with a camera recording every second of their day. You know, and with that, I will also say, knowing what I know now, looking back, I'm like, man, a lot of this makes sense. But not having, I guess the best way to say it is you don't know what you don't know. For sure.

SPEAKER_01 35:18

Any other experiences that uh stand out?

SPEAKER_00 35:21

Um, no, and and I'm sure I could probably think of some. I don't want to rush to think of some because I know you would like to also talk about uh when I say knowing what I know now and getting into some of that conversation and accounting for why I'm saying some of these events absolutely were paranormal. Um I know if I sat down, I could easily think of probably 20 more stories. And the beautiful thing about it is now I know some of them were paranormal, but as we talked about already, you just didn't know it at the time.

SPEAKER_01 35:56

Let's talk about the degrees that you're pursuing. Uh well, first you can brag about your your academic achievements thus far. And then uh yeah, just let's touch a little bit briefly on uh your studying of the paranormal.

SPEAKER_00 36:11

So um, because of looking back, uh and I talked to my wife about this, you know, looking back at some of these events, I'm like, man, you know, I've experienced some really unique things, things that just any, you know, again, hearing these stories, you would be like, ah, whatever. But like looking at them, knowing the facts, they're absolutely paranormal. There's something to them. And I'm like, I want to know why. What is what is it? What's causing it, or why is it happening, or uh why have I had, you know, maybe 25, 30 different experiences when you you know talk to 10 different people and they can't think of one. Um I just want to know why. A lot of questions. So I happen to um be talking to my wife one day, and I said, you know, I I I think I want to get into paranormal investigation. And at first she kind of laughed at me because she's like, why on earth would you want to like that's a very random thing to just throw out? And she gets it. Uh, she is um she's sensitive, she picks up on vibes and energies, and um more often than not, and when I say more often than not, I'm 95 to 99 percent of the time when she gets a feeling it's it's absolutely right. So she understands, and I like I just feel like we need answers, and you know, where are you gonna get them? If we don't look into some of this stuff, where you know, where are we gonna get these answers? So I decided to get some education, training, and experience in um there is no just outright paranormal um degree per se, but you can get education and training in paranormal investigation, metaphysics, and parapsychology. So that's what I did. I've taken some uh paranormal investigation courses and then I decided to enroll online um and obtain not only um a degree, but I decided to go through the whole uh degree program, which is a bachelor's degree, master's degree, and PhD in metaphysics and parapsychology. And as of today, I completed the bachelor's degree level of that course. Um and I'm already I've already started working on some of the master's degree uh portions of that.

SPEAKER_01 38:41

I think that's fantastic. I think it helps and it lends to the whole the whole subject when people get involved at the academic level. You know, people like you know, Dr. Meldrum for if you're into the whole Sasquatch Bigfoot thing, you know, that was uh what you know, rest in peace. What a loss um for that whole community, losing someone like that. Was working alongside the people who believe in that, assisting and looking at cast for footprint. I'm not sure if you know who he is, but um boy, we lost him and uh good old relatively close period of time, but a lot of respect for it. You're looking into it. I agree. What is it? I think a lot of what people experience and I've mentioned it before can be explained. Maybe not easily, but there's there's usually an answer. But some of it you're just you're scratching your head. You know, what is it? What's causing it? So that's really awesome that you're that you're pursuing that. What's next for you in the in the study? Or are you planning on doing any kind of investigations?

SPEAKER_00 39:44

Yeah, so I'm actually really glad you you bring all that up. Um kind of want to go back uh and respond to to some of the things that you you open with there. Uh yeah, I am familiar with uh the doctor, and uh I've actually looked into a lot of you know what he had to say in terms of cryptids and and well, what we call cryptids now. Um but Bigfoot and you know, I recall it's been several years ago, the great Art Bell uh you know talking about Bigfoot and and quoting some of the doctor's work. And um you know, the the beautiful thing in a lot of ways, while we can't definitively say this is the cause, that is the cause, one thing that's irrefutable, absolutely irrefutable, is a couple of things. And now when I say this, I don't say this lightly because I learned years ago. Um if you're gonna make an argument, it has to be an academic argument. Um you know, emotional arguments hold no weight, and that's true. Uh, but an academic argument has to be valid, sound, and strong. Those are three of the top criteria. Like that is that what that is what makes an academic argument. And a couple of things related to paranormal metaphysics, parapsychology, that just cannot be refuted. Is a regardless of what life form we may be talking, and I say that meaning animal, human, it doesn't matter. There is an energy presence about that life form. I think everyone can agree on that. The other part of it is regardless spiritually, religiously, whatever you may believe, and I'm not trying to start a debate on that part, but the premise of no matter what you believe, when someone dies, something happens to the spirit. That's a traditional, pretty continuous and pretty consistent theme in all religions. Something happens. But what no one really talks about is what happens to the energy of that presence. And that is where metaphysics and parapsychology come in and say that something has to happen. I mean, laws of science don't cease to exist simply because someone dies. And what I mean by that is what do we know about energy? Well, look at motion. A body in motion tends to stay in motion unless another force acts upon it. Okay, well, let's apply that to energy. You're a human life force right now, no matter what you're doing. You could be sitting on the couch watching football, eating Cheetos, but you're still in energy presence. Now, while you may, heaven forbid, someone suddenly die watching football eating Cheetos, okay, well, the body and the spirit may cease to exist, but what happened to that energy? It doesn't just disappear. So what happens to it? And that is one of the questions that while we can't definitively say A, B, or C, what we can say is the energy was there and something had to happen to it. And that's where metaphysics and parapsychology, that's what they really want to know is what happened to that energy.

SPEAKER_01 43:20

That's the question. What happens to it? I've pondered that many times. I've lost a lot of loved ones, and uh, I I often think, what happened? Where did that energy go? That's the question. No, and I I again I love, appreciate that you're you're studying that and getting in the weeds, so to speak. That is that is really cool.

SPEAKER_00 43:39

Kind of to answer the the second half of your questions there, what next for me? Um, I have a a friend that I will be working with. We are going to start conducting uh some investigations. We're gonna start with some local um hotspots, if you will, some places where there have been um success in picking up. Paranormal activity or evidence of paranormal activity, in fact, uh coming up. The 24th, I believe it is, we have um a dinner planned, uh, followed by a um quote unquote ghost hunt. Um so we're gonna kind of start there and we're gonna make sure that uh we're kind of getting some of the same feedback that other investigators have, and then we're gonna kind of go out on our own and do a few things.

SPEAKER_01 44:28

So um Joe, I appreciate you coming on. I really do. Thank you for being here. Thank you for sharing some of what you've experienced and getting into the field, getting deep into it, and stay in touch. I would love to hear about it.

SPEAKER_00 44:45

I will absolutely stay in touch. It's been a pleasure to be here. And I look forward to talking to you again.

SPEAKER_01 44:51

Thanks again, Joe.

SPEAKER_00 44:53

My pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_01 44:55

Thank you for listening. I appreciate you being here. You can catch this show wherever you listen to podcasts, uh, as well as our website at accounts of the paranormal.com, where you can access full episodes, uh, as well as links to all our socials and our YouTube channel, where you can listen and watch along with visual images. And if you're a fan of what you heard here, please like, share, follow, subscribe. I appreciate the support. And if you have an account to share and you'd like to be on the show, email me at show at accounts of the paranormal.com and tell me what you saw. I'll see you next time.