Ghosts of England

AOTP EP:10 Tonight, I reach across the pond to England, to speak with paranormal researcher, Paul Howard, discussing his more than 20 years in the paranormal, studying Parapsychology at Royal Holloway University and leading numerous investigations, from the historic tunnels at Holloway, to the prison cells of Fort Brockhurst; tonight, Paul shares some of his experiences, with the ghosts of England.

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Accounts of the Paranormal -

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:43

Tonight, I reached across the client to analyze to speak with paranormal researcher Paul Howard, discussing his more than 20 years in paranormal, studying parapsychology at Royal Holloway University, and leading numerous investigations, from the historic tunnels at Holloway to the prison stalls of Fort Brockhurst. Tonight, Paul shares some of his experiences with the ghosts of England. Paul, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_02 1:14

I'm happy to have you. Thank you for being here. My first overseas guest from uh the the amazing country, the United Kingdom. Uh, you're just outside of London. How awesome is that? I'm happy to have you here. So thanks for coming on. About 25 years in the paranormal. You are the founder of uh Hosts for Ghosts Paranormal there. You studied parapsychology at Royal Holloway University. You're a member of New England Society of Paranormal Research. You have uh done numerous investigations, you've seen an apparition, you actually caught one on camera that was featured on Unexplained, caught on camera. How cool is that? I can't wait to hear about all of that. And you recently investigated Fort Brockhurst uh as a charity event, which is wonderful with all the monies raised, going to the English Heritage, which uh I believe now runs, uh, owns the Fort Brockhurst, so that is really cool. And I can't wait to dig in and hear all about that. And what I like to do with guests is take me back to when this all started for you. The paranormal. Was there um any particular event that launched your interest in the paranormal? What what actually got you started if you could just go back and take it from there?

SPEAKER_01 2:29

Yeah, of course. Um it was probably about 20 years ago, I suppose. Now time's gradually going on. So I was asleep one night, um, and I was obviously fast asleep. It was about half past two, quarter to three in the morning, and I had suddenly had a feeling that someone was in the room. So I suddenly sat up, bolt upright, thinking someone had broken into the house. But as I sat upright, I saw my nan, who I who'd passed up literally ten years before, it must have been around ten years she'd passed over, and I saw her standing at the bottom of the bed. So I thought, well, I must be dreaming. So I sort of had another look and she was gone. So I laid back down, went to sleep, sort of didn't think much of it through through the day. Thought, well, that was a very strange thing to see because she'd passed over ten years prior to that. So I went to bed that's the following day, following night sorry, and then again around about quarter past three this time, because I managed to look at the clock, and I had the same feeling in my body that someone was watching me. So and my ex-wife then was fast asleep. I suddenly sat upright and she was there again at the end of the bed, just looking at me, as I remember her with her grey hair, small glasses, and a like a cooking penny, like um a penny that she used to wear for cooking cakes and stuff. And I thought, well, it can't be two nights in a row, what's going on? So I eventually went back off to sleep. She disappeared within seconds again. So the third night came, same thing again, and I couldn't actually see, I could see her mouth moving, but I couldn't actually hear or see what she was actually saying. And again, it was about 10 past three, quarter past three in the early hours of the morning here. So the on the fourth night, I thought I'm gonna try and catch what she's saying. She's obviously saying something to me, a warning or something or other. And then, sure enough, about 25 past three in the morning, there's that had that strange feeling someone was watching me again. So I suddenly woke up, sat upright in the in the bed, and there she was, sure enough, still at the bed at the end of the bed with her heck, curly hair, just as I remember her as a boy when she was alive. And as I sat up, I sort of tried to get closer so I could see her mouth move in, and as I got closer, she just disappeared. But I know she was trying to say something to me. So after that, I never saw her again, and then I sort of questioned what I'd seen, why did I see her? You know, how could I have seen her? And then I did wonder if I had a gift as a child, but never really used it as a as in a psychic gift. So I I sort of mulled over it for weeks, really, and then I thought, and I asked myself the question that everybody asks themselves, you know, is there life after death? You know, this is the question that we're looking for in the paranormal world. You know, can we prove it? Will I live long enough to prove it? I don't know, but some of the things that have happened to me in the paranormal world definitely swayed me to thinking there is there definitely is life after death. And then shortly after that, I went on um a university course for parapsychology, and I was a mature student, so I was working a working dad then, so what I had to do was to do it after work and weekends as a mature student, as we call it here, so you're an adult learning, and was part of a class, but the class were learning all week. But there was myself and another guy that were sort of learning after work and weekends and all of this, and it took the main group three years to qualify, and it took myself and this other guy three and a half years to qualify when I finally passed it with a distinction, and then coming out of there, it sort of opened my eyes not only to the paranormal but to the supernatural because they're you know, we have various, various people, guest speakers talking about time travel and time slips and you know uh uh encounters that people had during the second world war, you know, what they saw at the end of in the after a bombing on the street, and it was just really sort of really spiked my intrigue into finding out more. So, as I got a distinction and left there, I joined the Ghost Club of Great Britain, which was started by very famous Arthur Conan Doyle, where they get very, very exclusive um venues like Hampton Court and various places like that. So you have to be part of that to get in there. So I did that for a little while, and then gradually work my way away from there and joined a local group where we started to do lots more investigations, sort of more, I would say, sort of down-to-earth investigations, you know, ground grassroots investigation houses, and then we picked up um a contract from the Ministry of Defence to do a um a few of their buildings around, scattered around uh a place here in in the UK called Order Shop, which is a big army base, and they had a few buildings there they wanted us to investigate, so we looked into that and we did that, and really I've gone on from there to have I have my own team now, obviously a host for ghosts with my partner Jenny, who's a psychic medium. Obviously, she picks up and spirit artists so she can draw spirit when we're in a location, which is brilliant because we can put a face to a name a lot of the times that we're investigating. Oh, we've done private houses, we did one house, took us nine months to get to the bottom of the haunting. So I've had various experiences in all I've done asylums, I've done hospitals, private houses, or ministry of defense places, you name it. I've I've done it. That's just a small insight, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:27

No, and there's a lot to unpack there. Boy, you that that's a lot. So going back real quick, um, to that the sighting of your nan um you know 20 years ago or so. That's interesting. Several nights in a row. How did just real quick to touch on that? How did she appear to like to look to you? Did she look was it like a person? Was she whole? Was it um apparition-like, uh transparent? But how did she look?

SPEAKER_01 8:58

She was um oh an apparition. She was like solid because I remember seeing her glasses and the way she was dressed. I always remember as a child how she would dress when we'd go over there, and she had the like her the little uh dress on and her round glasses and her short grey hair. I couldn't see through her, but I knew that she was different. Do you understand what I mean? From a which would have been a human standing there. I knew she was not human because it was different, it was a different energy I could feel in the room, you know. And I looked at her and I thought, I must be dreaming. Why am I thinking about her? You know, is it coming up to an anniversary of her passing? And she died on the Queen's Silver Jubilee, so we'd already gone past that sort of time. So I'm thinking, why is she here? And then I think she came back to tell me that I had a gift and I needed to use it because I think at that time I wasn't tuned into spirit, so I couldn't hear the message that was she was trying to get to me, give to me, but I couldn't get close enough to her to see what she was saying, sort of lip read. But as I sort of look back now, I think she came to gate tell me that I had a gift that as a child, you know, my mum and dad weren't very spiritual, to be honest. So you know, they say no, you know, the people are dead, and that's the end of it, you know, you carry on with your life. And I think she came back to say to me that I did have a gift, and that sort of when I did sort of realize maybe you know what I saw as a child or had the experience as a child, maybe that's right, and hence why I sort of then intrigued me to look for that the question that we all want to know is there life after death.

SPEAKER_02 10:44

When she appeared when you woke, was there any other any other senses? Did you feel cold? Was there any uh sense, smells, or was there anything else associated with the appearance, or was it strictly the appearance of her?

SPEAKER_01 10:59

I noticed on the first night it was just literally the appearance as she was standing there, but obviously I could only over the headboard, I can only see a very small like the top half of her. But as the time went on, I always remember like the third night smelling her perfume, which was like lavender, she would wear lavender, and I remember getting the smell of lavender with her, and I thought that truly is Nan, as I called her then, because I could smell her. I wasn't afraid, it didn't frighten me as in the spec that someone was standing there. I think she wasn't there to frighten me, and she was there to give me a message, but it was a smell I always remember the lavender perfume that she would wear.

SPEAKER_02 11:42

About how old were you when this happened?

SPEAKER_01 11:45

Uh I would have been 26-ish, 27, maybe a little bit older.

SPEAKER_02 11:51

And this was in your home. Did anything uh was there any other type of paranormal activity within the home at any time, or was it just uh solely the appearance of her?

SPEAKER_01 12:04

No, we never had anything in the house, you know. Um it was just solely the the her visiting us from the spirit. There was nothing else in the house, the house wasn't haunted, you know, where we lived, because obviously that we didn't live where we are now, because obviously now we live in a haunted house, but in them times the house was never haunted, we had no inclination of anything would happen. You know, she'd passed over and gone, and I was very close to my nan as a boy, and I was the only boy in the family, so I was very close to her and my grandfather who was a mechanic like myself. So no, the house wasn't haunted, it was just the appearance of her four nights on a row. Why it was four nights, I don't know. Whether it's I like I couldn't get what she was trying to say to me in the first three nights, I don't know. But I knew then there was something she wanted me to do, you know, with the feeling, the sense. It wasn't cold, I just remember it being just chilly like a normal night if you wake up in the early hours of the morning, especially in the UK, it was just like a normal chilly night in the room in the house. Nothing I would think, cool. This why is it so so cold in here? It was just a normal chilly night.

SPEAKER_02 13:20

And before this took place, had you experienced anything related to the paranormal uh at any level, hear anything, uh sights, sounds, sense.

SPEAKER_01 13:33

I used to hear voices. I know that sounds probably mad, but as a child, I remember hearing voices, and you know, in my bedroom as a as a young child in my 10, 11, 12 year old, you know, I'd be sitting in there and I would hear people, and I thought I had heard my granddad call me one day, and I said to my mum, Granddad's just called me. She said, No, don't be daft, you know, grandad's passed over, he's gone, you couldn't have heard him. I said, But I heard him call my name, and I recognised his voice because he had a bit of an accent, so I recognised it. She said, No, no, when people are dead, they're dead, that's it, they're gone, you know, you kind of hear, you must be doing something or whatever. But they were and my mum and dad weren't very much of a believer in the spiritual world, and you know, I heard voices, never really saw anything, but I knew people were around me, as my mad as that sounds. But the voices, I remember hearing the voices, but over a period of time, I think I put the gift on the back shelf and then sort of went away because I was told you know they passed over and they never come back, and no, because he wouldn't contact you. Why would he want to contact you? And then gradually as a child, I was sort of put my gift, for want of a word, sort of put it on the back shelf, really, so I didn't use it for probably another 10-15 years after that.

SPEAKER_02 14:59

Yeah, and I think as you mentioned, I think Inana uh was there to kind of nudge you and l remind you or uh bring it to your attention uh as well as watching over you. That's really interesting.

SPEAKER_01 15:14

I think she she wanted to give me a message, but uh I wasn't tuned in to Spirit then. Obviously, um having worked with my partner and you know she's really got me connected with Spirit now. But I think in that time she came back to just remind me that I did have a gift and that I needed to learn how to use it and then be able to tune in.

SPEAKER_02 15:38

But I've never seen her since, so I don't know quite what the message was, or you know, I've tried contacting her and my grandfather, but it you don't always get your family come through anyway, but they've never come back, so maybe the message was received, whatever she was trying to uh get to you. I think uh you received that message, and it probably uh she didn't didn't need to say anything. I mean, four nights in a row, that was that's a lot. She kept coming back night after night until she felt you received that message. That's amazing. That's that's actually kind of wonderful.

SPEAKER_01 16:13

Yeah, I I you know I look back on it now and I and I'm very grateful to her because she's obviously reminded me that I had a gift and I just needed to know how to use it. And because as being a young child, you know, your parents are not really well, my parents weren't into the spiritual world at all. So I think she's come back to remind me, you know, you do have a gift and you need to learn how to use it again.

SPEAKER_02 16:39

That was great for her to do that. What a great experience.

SPEAKER_01 16:43

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 16:44

Yeah, what was the next experience for you? Where did it go from there after that point? Because that that's that seemed to be or definitely would have been a catalyst uh into the paranormal after that. What was next?

SPEAKER_01 16:57

After that, I sort of waited for a while and just thought about what I'd seen and tried to work out, and you know, and I'm thinking, you know, is she trying to tell me something? You know, could this mean there is life after death? You know, is that the question that I'm looking for? Maybe I had that question buried deep in my mind somewhere, and she'd just come back to remind me of what I'd been thinking about. So from there, I saw the parapsychology course come up at the university, and I thought, you know what, maybe that'll open my eyes wider. Because, you know, the paranormal is a very small part of the supernatural circle, you know. We have UFOs, cryptids, you know, all sorts of things in in the paranormal world, you know, it's all part of that supernatural. And I thought, if I could learn more about paranormal, supernatural world, I think that would open my eyes to a lot more experience, and which it did. Which it did. It it taught me, it showed me there, you know, there it's not just looking for spirits and ghosts, it's looking for other stuff, UFOs, all the stuff that we just sort of put to one side and don't think about, but it all makes that massive circle of the supernatural, and I was just intrigued to learn about the supernatural and what went with it and what part the paranormal played in the supernatural, albeit a small part in it, like the UFOs and uh all the other stuff that's in it, time travel and all that sort of stuff, and I think that sort of spurred me on to think, you know what, I need to learn more, and I and I needed to learn more. You know, I carried on absorbing everything for three and a half years, you know, guest speakers. We were doing different types of investigation within the college, you know, and I and I'm sure I saw people there in the dark in the distance, but really I was with a group that weren't they although they were studying as part of a of uh parapsychology, but they were doing a bigger um lecture, so this was a small part of what they had to learn. And I didn't like to say anything when we were in the rooms and it you know saw people in the dark, and I just thought I kept it sort sort of to myself thinking they think oh man, if I'm saying I'm I can see people at the end of the hallway, and and we did a little investigation within the college or the university as it is now, it's this very haunted part of Egham in Surrey. And I and that sort of and then I started to realise maybe this is what she wanted me to do. Maybe this is the road that Spirit have laid for me and take me on the journey into the paranormal, and that's and then I pursued it from there on.

SPEAKER_02 19:42

Yeah, that's real interesting. You you mentioned and earlier you had mentioned time travel, so I I'm definitely gonna want to uh dig into that a little. That is just kind of a fascinating thing. But while you were studying for those three, three and a half years, was there any standout uh moments while while you were studying, maybe maybe while you were out uh and and doing any research or anything? Does anything stand out that yeah, it kind of like told you, yeah, this is what it's all about.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

So they said um what we'll do one night is that we'll go to the main because we were in a like um a smaller building and of university in the grounds. So they said what we'll do is is we'll get a ghost hunt together, spirit. You know, I don't like really like to call it a ghost hunt because a hunt means there's something dies at the end. I like to call it an investigation, you know. People say, Yeah, let's go on a ghost hunt. It's not about hunting to me, it's about finding out. Anyway, so uh I decided to finish work early because I really wanted to go on this investigation at the Holloway University. It was known as the college then, but it's the the university now. So we all met up and then she said, What we'll do, we'll there's three different uh sites we're gonna go to was the boiling room, the clock tower, and uh the garden, the gardens around the university, because the Royal Holloway University was built by a guy called George Holloway, who built it on the top of Eggham Hill for his wife, and what they used to do was take the unfortunate ladies of the night from London during the Victorian times and earlier, and train them to be servants so they would have some sort of life, decent life, serving you know the hierarchy in London and all over the country. So they took these women in, trained them, and gave them a roof over the head, and and then eventually his wife started to get dementia and a few bits. So at the bottom of the hill, he the college was at the top, at the bottom of the hill was a sanatorium that he built for his wife. So so when she suddenly when she started to lose her mind, he could keep her out. Site. So what they did was from the college at the top, they built tunnels under the ground to the sanatorium at the bottom of the hill. So people with the disabilities of being mentally ill, whatever they could have been out of London, were taken down the tunnels and never walked along the road or along the forest. So anyway, so bear that in mind. So she said, What we'll do, we'll go to the tunnels first, and bear in mind these tunnels run for about a mile down, but you don't actually realise you're actually going down because when you're in the dark, you don't realise you're actually walking down. So we were in a group, and like it was um probably two or three men and eight women. So she said, We'll have a the guy the tour guy was at the front, the lady that was doing the investigation, said we'll go down the tunnel and then we'll go about halfway and then we'll we'll turn around and come back and we'll do a bit of calling out. So we ended up going down the tunnels, so we did a bit of calling out, and we could hear like footsteps and laughing, it was really intriguing, you know. And although the tunnels were over a mile long, but you knew with the torches that there was nobody else in the tunnel other than us, and obviously we were a tight group, so because you couldn't get lost in there because it was so dark you didn't know which way was out and which way was down, so you had to really be concentrated on what you were doing. So, anyway, we turned round and I became the last one out of the tunnel on the back of the group. So we're walking for about 10 minutes, and then I thought I heard something running behind me, and I sort of turned around in the dark, looked as the group carried on, and I could hear what sounded like someone running up and in like sort of sliding along the dirt on their shoes, and I thought, well, that's really odd. And I looked and I carried on walking, and the group had got a little bit forward of me, probably oh, a hundred yards in front of me, so I was a little bit way back, so I could see them, so I knew I was heading out of the tunnel to run, and again I heard this running and this like sliding on the dirt, and I thought, well, that's really odd. So I've sort of speeded up my walk a little bit to try and catch up with the main group like you do, and then I felt a tug on my shirt, like the my tail of my shirt, and I thought, oh, I've got myself caught up on something. So I've turned around and I'm not caught up on anything, there's nothing there to catch a shirt or a jacket on, so I carried on and I could feel this tugging on my shirt, not trying to hold me back, but like someone was holding on to me coming out, and I thought this is really odd. So, anyway, we sort of walked, walked, I caught up in the main group, and it was still there, and as we came out, it sort of went. And I looked behind me, and the lady run that was in charge of the tour said to me, What are you looking at? And I told her what had happened. I said, It's really odd. It's like someone was running up behind me and skidding on the dirt, but held onto my back of my jacket at the bottom by my waist. And she said, Well, that makes sense because during the Second World War, when the Germans were bombing around Egham and all around that area, they used to take the children down the tunnels to keep them safe from bombing. And what they used to do is make them hold each other's jacket around the waist, sort of at the back, what we call the tail part, top and tail. So everybody would hold each other going down there so nobody would get lost, and they would hold each other's shirt tails coming out, so nobody was be left behind. And you said, What you're feeling is one of the children holding onto your shirt tail, and that's what I felt. Not tugging me back, but something just coming with me out of the tunnel.

SPEAKER_02 25:36

That is amazing. Yeah, when you first mentioned something was tugging on the shirt, I immediately thought like of a kid, because that's something like a child might do, you know, grab the bottom of your the your the tail of your shirt and kind of hold on to you. Wow, what an amazing experience that was.

SPEAKER_01 25:52

Very much. And you know, I never forget it to this day because you know, I quite touched that a child I have, you know, came with me and came out. I don't know whether they were lost in the tunnel or they were just letting me know that they were there, but it was quite an experience to have that. You know, I felt quite honoured that they would trust me by touching me like that, you know.

SPEAKER_02 26:17

Absolutely. Were there any recordings uh any EVPs caught any voices by chance while you were in those tunnels?

SPEAKER_01 26:25

The lady that was running the tour, um, she had an EVP, and you could hear children laughing and like a conversation very much in the tunnel, like an echo. But the tunnel led to the sanatorium, but the sanatorium had been closed for 50, 60 years, so that we knew there was nobody down there talking up the tunnel. So when she played it back when we went for tea, sort of had a little bit of a break, and people were talking to me about my experience. Wasn't I scared being the last one out? And but I wasn't scared, I just I was intrigued, and then she said, Well, let me let's have a listen back and played it back, and you could hear what sounded a really soft child girl's talk. It was like a hello, and I'm here, I'm here, and then a conversation a bit further down the tunnel that you you could hear the echo, but you couldn't really pick up it was muffled for once to say the word. You couldn't quite make out what the conversation was, but you could hear people having a conversation, not sure if it's adult, but you could hear the little girl's voice saying, I'm here, I'm here, which was you know, I think, and I relate that to the little girl that was tugging on my shirt. You know, I couldn't hear her, but the voice before the caught her.

SPEAKER_02 27:42

And what happened next?

SPEAKER_01 27:45

We went to what they had is the old boiler room there. So in the boiler room, she didn't tell us, she said go in the we'll go in the room and we'll have a Ouija board in the rooms. You can do the Ouija board if you like. If you're not happy to do it, that's perfectly fine, you know. You're not forced to do anything you don't want to do. So, and I'm standing behind watching the Ouija board work and thinking, I really want to go at this, but is it safe? You know, and I've heard bad stories about Ouija boards, and I'm thinking, is it safe? You know, should I really touch it? Could I take something home with me? If and I sort of said to her, you know, is this perfectly safe? You know, is it okay that she said, Yeah, yeah, yeah, you've got to experience it. You know, we're all grounded, we're all safely protected here, you know, nothing's gonna follow you home, nothing can harm you on the board. So I thought, you know what, I'm gonna have a go because I just wanted to experience it to say that I'd done it, and it was a different level of movement. I expected the glass to drag across the board, but it it sort of moved so smoothly along the board, and that's what sort of blew my mind. I'm thinking, how can it move so smoothly with everybody's singles? Why is it not screeching along the top? Anyway, we were asking out and we had a man we spelt a name man name out George, and then it was a Michael, so it was two men's name, and we were saying, Did you die here? and he went straight to yes. You know, was it an accident? Yes. So we had lots of communication with them. Can you knock somewhere in the room? There's a big room, so like a massive old-shaped boiler room, and it was run on steam, so it was really old-fashioned, but it hadn't moved the boilers, they were just everything was original, so it was loads of energy in there. So there was a tap and a knock and a bang on the boiler, there was all sorts of things went off. It was absolutely brilliant. And when we came out, she said, Right, I'll sit you down, I'll tell you, George and Michael were two workers in there working away when one of the boilers blew up and killed them, and they've never left since. And they're who we had communication with. You know, that was just sort of blew my mind, you know. They came through on the board and they actually made noises, they actually responded. You know, can you not once for yes, twice for no? That type of um conversation. It was just so intriguing, and you know, and I like I'm a bit like a sponge, you know. I want to know more, I want to know more, what's going on. And when she told us, I thought, well, uh, you know, that's incredible, absolutely incredible contact.

SPEAKER_02 30:19

When did those men when did they pass? Do you know about the timeline?

SPEAKER_01 30:25

I think it was about 1718, 1790, something like that. It just gone over to steam boiler for the heating to run the it as it was a college there, obviously, for teaching women to serve and and do that, and they'd just literally gone over to steam, as far as I understood from the story, and because they hadn't had much experience with steam by then, one of the boilers exploded, and obviously these two guys bless them, they were killed inside the boiler room. So it would have been around the 1700-1800s, probably around that time, but it was original.

SPEAKER_02 31:02

Were you doing the uh board yourself solely, or was there anyone else working that board with you?

SPEAKER_01 31:09

Five of us on the glass, five, and I was sort of watching everybody's fingers, you know, seeing, you know, being my first time on it, is someone moving it, are they pushing it? You know how you sort of try and work out what's going on, and you know, how can they communicate through a glass that's not dragging on the top? Because I was looking looking at people's fingers, see if uh someone was moving it or and I couldn't see any fingertips being white where someone was pushing it, so I was intrigued, shall I say, what was going how that glass was moving.

SPEAKER_02 31:41

What were your feelings um about that afterwards? Has that become something that you you use, or was it just at that time?

SPEAKER_01 31:49

No, we we do use it now. I did a lot of studying on Ouija boards about how to open them, how to close them, you know, what to look for, the signs coming through, the spirits, because certain spirits made certain signs on the board, you know, quite demonic spirits trying to come through, make certain moves on the board. And I sort of went for a long time working it out, trying to watch, and I was watching people, I was asking people to use it all the time, and I did an online like a course studying about Ouija boards and you know their origin and why they were used, and you know, how the Victorians used them in their Victorian tea parties to communication with spirit, you know, and I really thought it's like anything. If I want to learn something, then I really duck dive in and get get to the bottom of it. And ever since then, we use them quite often. Some of the venues here don't always allow you to use Ouija boards because they've had problems with other groups that have opened them and not shut them, and then you know, as we know, as we all know in the paranormal world, you know, a Ouija board is another form of communication with spirit, so you need to have to open it, close it, make sure everybody's safe on the board, you know, watch for the various signs. And if we're using a Ouija board, we don't always go on it. We stand back and watch and let the guests the you know, let the guests use it because if you go on it, there's always a chance that you could be influencing the board. So we tend to stand back and allow the guests to do it.

SPEAKER_02 33:25

What else did you experience during your uh your studies there?

SPEAKER_01 33:28

So from the boiler house we went to the clock tower, and this is probably about a hundred and fifty-foot high clock tower, you can see it from a long way away. And again, she didn't say much about it, so we'll go to the clock tower, but we'll go up like five stories, sort of up five flight, five stories in it, to the virtually to the clock at the top. So as we were climbing up, it's a imagine a square tower, so you're going up a stairs around the room, and then up another flight of stairs. But the stairs were in the corner, so you'd go up through a look like a little hatch. So we were climbing up there, and we went up about three floors, and she said, Right, just stand still a minute, and then we stood still. Somebody put the hatch down so nobody could fall down the stairs. And we're standing there, and she was calling out, you know, is Jane Holloway here? Can you can you talk to us? Can you make an and we could hear someone walking around up above us like footsteps? Because when she was of sane of mine, Jane Holloway, she used to go to the clock tower to do some lessons and sing, and you know, that type of thing, and we could hear footsteps above us. So she said, right, we'll go up the next flight. Of course, we'd gone up there, opened the hatch, gone to there. Obviously, there's no one there, gone up to like the top, virtually to the clock, and it's it was then originally original, it was like um like a classroom, basically, a few desks and bits and pieces in there where she would teach them about etiquette, you know, how to say yes, no, that type of thing. And according to her, a lot of people see hear a woman singing in the tower, but nobody's been brave enough to go up there, so we've obviously been up there. The security had been up there because someone said there's a woman singing in the tower, you know, they've heard her, and they've been up there and not found anything, and even we couldn't find the footsteps, even when we went up, it was and you know, we were virtually at the top, really, and then we could hear footsteps below us. We opened the hatch and looked through the hatch to the next floor. Of course, there was no one there. So again, you know, it's another part of your senses hearing hearing footsteps, you know. But we couldn't see any trace of anybody there because as soon as we heard it, we opened the hatch and looked through the floor, and there was nobody in the room, but we could clearly hear what sounded like someone walking around the room. Intriguing, really, really intriguing, really interesting. After for a while, we we did the investigation and I and I sort of asked if I could go and talk to security, and so I I just needed to know more. And I was talking to one of the security guards that does nights, and I said to him, you know, have you have you seen anything on the CCTV? He said, No, we've not ever seen anything, but we've heard footsteps there. But you know, two of our guys go there with radios, and they go up into the tower, and obviously no one's there, but you can hear the footsteps when they're radio in, you can hear the footsteps above them. So they've gone all the way to the top and found nothing. And then he was telling me about an incident incident that happened, oh oh I can't remember, late 70s, early 80s, there, where they were uh on the CCTV, and it has student accommodation there, and one of the guys on the night shift had gone for a walk about because they have very precious paintings there that you know money can't buy in a special room. And the other guy sitting in the control room was watching the students' floors when he saw a door open, the number eight room, room number eight, and the student ran out and jumped out the window. So they're three stories up. So he's radio's mate, someone's just jumped out the window, you know, quick, quick, quick, quick. So he's run out onto the grass. His mate's then gone from the there straight up to room eight, but the door was shut, he knocked on the door, and the student was fast asleep, but there was nobody outside. So they questioned his mate and said, Well, what what did you see? You know, what why are you calling it in when there's nobody around? He said, I'm telling you, I know what I saw. I saw someone run out of that room and straight out of the window and and gone. They said, But there's nobody here, and the student in number in room eight is fast asleep. So they went back and looked on the CCTV, but obviously they couldn't see anything on the TV other than the door open and the window open, but no one running, but they could see the window open and the door open. And so, you know, he he to this day he knows he saw someone run out of the room. So prior to that, um a year before that, they had a student there that they had done a bit of history checking, and sure enough, in room eight, a student had actually committed suicide, run out of the room and run out the window, and uh sadly plummeted to his death on the grass outside because he's like a courtyard, and they reckon that every now and again, it might be a year, might be two years between it, they actually see the same thing recorded again, a bit like a residual energy where it plays back, but they've never actually seen anybody, but they've seen the door open, the window open, and that's it. But they don't see the spirit go from one side to the other.

SPEAKER_02 38:45

That is crazy. But it's amazing that the recording picks up the door and the window, and the individual sees the the person or the spirit, but the recording doesn't pick that up.

SPEAKER_01 38:59

But he he he's adamant, he saw the person run across the corridor, and obviously his mates are saying, No, well, you couldn't have done because there is nobody here, so you know what have you just seen? He said, Well, I know what I saw, I know what I do, and they're saying there's nobody out here, and the student in roommate's fast asleep. And that sort of intrigued him to go back and realize, and after a few checks and asking a few people around, he found out that there was a student in that time about a year or so prior that committed suicide there.

SPEAKER_02 39:31

Yeah, that's crazy. No, I I believe, I mean, why else would that door open and why else would that window open? It completely falls in line with that experience of from that student, which is very sad, but um wow, what an incredible, incredible sighting for that guy.

SPEAKER_01 39:48

Yeah, and it and he never forgets it, you know. Even tying it back to me when he was telling me about it, you know, obviously he has to be careful what he says because obviously what they it's all security, but he was quite emotional telling the story, you know. It really obviously affected him what he'd seen because he literally thought someone, you know.

SPEAKER_02 40:09

Yeah, I mean, essentially he witnessed that death. Yeah, that's definitely gonna leave a mark, and that's something that that rattles you. That's incredible, that's absolutely incredible. Yeah, and what else happened there?

SPEAKER_01 40:24

That was about it for us. We never went back again as students, but that experience to me lasted will last a lifetime, you know, because that was my first real experience into the unknown, shall we say, the unexplained. You know, someone saw it but can't explain it. You know, we heard taps, knocks, and the Ouija ball gave us information, you know, the walking in the tower, the tugging and the tunnels. You know, we never went back again because we were allowed to do it the one time as because they're quite obviously quite security conscious there because they have a lot of foreign students there, they don't like people traping, traipsing around the site, you know. But we were with an organized group, so they were quite happy to do that because the group was organised by them. But that was the sort of the last time we went there, which was you know, and then you had to put that in your in your write-up at the end of the course and how you experience and what you felt, and so it's really interesting, really interesting place.

SPEAKER_02 41:28

Oh, absolutely, what an incredible study. And I bet you had a a great write-up um at the end of all that. That's awesome. Earlier you mentioned um you were we were talking back about uh Nana, and and and you you had said yeah um the house wasn't haunted like unlike the one that you're in now. What's going on in your home? I'd like to hear about that.

SPEAKER_01 41:52

Oh, lots of things happen here with myself and my partner Jenny, who's obviously just sitting here with me alongside. So we have lots of things. We get we get smoke, we can smell smoke, and neither of us are smokers. So we we pick it up sort of straight away. Can't see the smoke, but we smell it, you know, and we think into us out, we look at each other and go, smell the smoke. We go, Yeah, yeah, it smelled the smoke. And then we've had like the corner of your eye heads poked round the front uh lounge door, you know, in the corner of your eye, and you think, What was that? And a few things have happened, and then it's sort of built up one day. It was quite hot here, so we were sitting in the lounge watching a bit of TV, had all the doors and windows open because it was a very hot, hot time here. So we were sitting there and we heard this bang and like a like a like a whizzing type noise. I thought, what was that? So I went out into well, we both got up and went, What was that? Went out into the kitchen, and in the middle of the kitchen was a lemonade bottle spinning round on its own, and we're like looking at each other, going, Well, where can that have come from? And it was literally spinning round. And like my partner Jenny said, Maybe they were trying to trying to warn us that we'd left the windows open in the kitchen. So I thought, Oh, yeah, I suppose, okay. So we went to bed a week later, Jen.

SPEAKER_00 43:17

Something like that.

SPEAKER_01 43:18

About a week later, we're fast asleep about two o'clock in the morning. We heard this biggish crash, bang, smash, and all sorts of noises. And we both jumped up thinking someone has broken in. We were like, What? So we both sort of I jumped up and ran out to see if someone had broken in. I need to find the kitchen clock laying on the floor all smashed, but the hanger for the kitchen clock was still in the wall. I'm thinking what? And I looked, check the timeout. Is it like about 10 past 20 past two in the morning, something like that, where the clock had battery had come out? And I said, Jane, the battery, the glass everywhere, and the clock's all broken, and but the hanger was still in the wall. And that clock had been up there for probably over a year. So, quite how it could have come off the wall, we don't know. So, anyway, we had a few things, knocks and taps. One day my partner Jenny was coming in. She'd been out shopping. So as she was coming in the front door, she could hear voices in the lounge. So, oh no, it's her daughter with the grandchildren, not realizing that Jenny was coming in and going back out again. So she sort of opened the front door, came into the lounge, ready to say, Oh, I've got to go back out, but it was nobody here. And she actually heard a conversation in the lounge of people talking. So we have bits like that. So it was carrying on a bit on and off, wasn't it, for a while? In the hallway. So the picture in the lounge flew off about midnight one night and bounced down the hallway. And I got up and I said to Jenny, what was that? And found a picture in the hallway. So anyway, I've been um I bought a new camera. I thought I'd try this new camera out because it it records an infrared and ultraviolet. So I said, you know, I'll try the camera out and see if we catch anything before I take on a paranormal investigation. So we live out in the countryside, so there's no subway, underground, trains, buses, lorries, anything go past the house. So I put it up in front of the TV on the massive books bookshelf. So the bookshelf was solid, so it didn't move or anything like that. Um and then I left it there to make sure it was just a rough guest looking at the the lounge door and walked away, went to bed. Didn't really hear anything during the night. Jen thought she'd heard a few noises, but wasn't really sure because we often get knocks and taps during the night, but it doesn't bother us as you know as we're we know that they're not here to harm us, you know, and they're welcome to come in and out as they want, as long you know. So I got up in the morning, I looked at the camera, it was flashing red, like it had been triggered because it was movement and sound sensitive camera. So I said to you, oh the camera's been triggered, I'll have a look at it tonight when I get home. So I've gone off to work, come back, but oh I must try that card. So I put it in my laptop and I was sitting there going, battered to 40. It recorded about 55 minutes of recording. And so of course 55 minutes to go back through a recording takes you probably one or two hours because you stop, go back, stop, go back. So it took me a while. And right in the middle of the recording, though it was quiet, but you could hear that like a like a static build up in the room. And I'm thinking, what is that noise? Because it's quiet all the way up to that point, and then you see the camera start to vibrate, shake, like an energy in the room. That's really strange. And as I carried on watching the video where our lounge door is, the video stops because the noise and the movement stops, and then it starts again, but this time the lounge door is a little bit further open, and as you look at it, you know, it's on the video, you can see it. When you look at it, you see a woman suddenly appear, like see-through, but you see her head come round the door and look, and a spirit child in the hallway, and then you see her actually disappear. She goes down, down, down, you hear dunk dunk, and she disappears. And as you look at the camera, the orb comes in the room and disappears out of the room, but leaves the spirit child there. It's on our video, it's been on TV and other stuff like that. So I looked at her and said, Jen, Jen, Jen, come and have a look at this. What do you think this is? And we both sat there in amazement. So a very good friend of mine is um paranormal investigator on the TV in the UK. So I thought, I'm gonna send it to him and see what he says. So I sent it to him and he came back to me after about three or four days going, Where did you get this footage? I said, Well, it's a home, you know, according this camera. He said, Can you can I send it to some people I know to have the footage verified that it's not forged? I said, Of course you can. You know, it didn't matter to me, but I he said, make sure you copyright it so nobody else can do it. So it was gone for probably two or three weeks, and he came back to me. He said, Um, someone's gonna ring you from the um from a TV company. And I'm like, Oh okay then, because they want to use it in a TV documentary because it it's never seen before where an apparition or a spirit actually you see them materialize, although you can see right through them, materialize, look round the door and then dematerialise and disappear. It's never ever been caught before. So, anyway, he sent it off, and the the TV crew contacted us, you know, would you could you do a program? Blah blah blah, all of that type of stuff. And then he he came back to me, my friend, and he said, I send it to um the police because they want to have a look, you know. You've got a friend in there that does forensics where they look at the metadata, which is the information within the film, the camera position, height, all the time going on, as it times recorded, how it's recorded, where it's it they can get all that from a picture. So he said, Did you realize that the first part of the video is different to the second? And I went, Well, no, it's not, it's a character continuation of the first part. He said, That's how it looked. But when they looked at it, they broke down the metadata. The first part of the video you see where the static, the camera shakes, and then the camera stops was at filmed at 0307. So seven minutes past three in the early hours of the morning. When you see this the apparition arrive, and the spirit m materialised, like where you can see through her, and you can see the child spirit, was at 0306. So time had gone back a minute from the original recording. And they they said that they they just don't know. They've never ever seen time go back by a minute. And it is it it was first recording was at 0307am in the early hours of the morning. The camera shakes, the vibration, the static stops, the door opens a bit more so you can actually see the apparition, you know, see her as large as life, and then you see the child, and that was recorded for 0306. So at the time the camera stopped, it went back a minute. How'd you work that one out?

SPEAKER_02 50:21

That is fascinating. I would I'm gonna have to look up look up that video. That is absolutely incredible. Is there any explanation?

SPEAKER_01 50:31

Definitely I can send it over if I yeah, I would love to see that.

SPEAKER_02 50:35

Is there any explanation for that that minute that uh skips back, so to speak? Is there technically speaking, is there any any way that uh the clock or something on that camera could have done that? What what do you make of that?

SPEAKER_01 50:50

Uh what the um forensic guy said what's intriguing and baffled him when the first recording at 0307, the clock is still running forward, so the seconds are still going. When it goes to 0306, the seconds are still going but carrying on from 307. So it was like something like 0307, for argument's sake, 28 seconds, and it was 0306 29 30 31 32, but it had gone back a minute, but the seconds were still running.

SPEAKER_02 51:24

Yeah, that's a difficult one to explain.

SPEAKER_01 51:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:28

What can you tell me about the house? Um, about how old is it? What do you know the history of this house?

SPEAKER_01 51:33

Vaguely, yeah, it was built in the 50s, J. It was built around the 50s here, and the lady that lived here before my partner moved in was a heavy smoker, smoked a lot, because we we sort of spoke to the neighbours and said, Oh, was she a heavy smoker? They said, Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And the weirdest thing is, when my partner came to look over the bungalow, she walked in and we have a little dog, a little Maltese pup dog as white. And one of the neighbours came out and said, Oh, what are you doing with Lily? She said, Oh no, it's not Lily, this is Poppy. She said, No, no, that's Lily, the dog that used to live there with a lady next door. She said, No, no, no, this is my dog, Poppy. And she said, Well, that's strange because the lady lived in in where you're going to have a look, had a dog exactly the same as Poppy, but they it was called Lily. So, with that bearing that in mind, obviously my partner then moved in. And when we had the video, we showed the neighbours, we said, Look at this, do you see what we caught? Because obviously they knew we were into the paranormal because we would be coming back at all odd hours in the morning. So they knew we were we were either doing a train robbery or we were out doing the paranormal. But so we showed them the video and they said, Oh, that was the lady that lived next door. That was the lady that lived in your house that looked round the door, and they identified her as the lady that lived here, who sadly died here, and obviously the smoke, she was a smoker. So the smoke we'd been smelling of obviously her coming back, you know, and why shouldn't she come back to have a look around? It was where she lived, she had a good part of her life here, you know. She had a good life here, so why shouldn't she come back and have a look? And that's what we reckon we caught in the video is they identified and said that's her, that's the lady that used to live there.

SPEAKER_02 53:15

She died in the home.

SPEAKER_01 53:17

Correct, yes.

SPEAKER_02 53:18

Wow. Yeah, and they basically identified her as that apparition, then, correct? I mean it's it's clear enough that they were able to make it out to be her.

SPEAKER_01 53:27

You can see her, yeah. If you zoom in when the video plays, you can actually zoom in, you can actually see the hair and the eyes, but although she's transparent, you can see through her, but you can actually recognize the hair. So let's say we've zoomed in and said, Do you know who that is? And they went, No, that's the lady who lived there.

SPEAKER_02 53:43

And they could actually see although she was see-through, but did you say there was uh another apparition in that same video you said? Was it a a girl or something?

SPEAKER_01 53:52

A child.

SPEAKER_02 53:54

Was there any child associated with that woman?

SPEAKER_01 53:57

She had a daughter, didn't she? Kim, wasn't it? Yeah, it could be my daughter. It could be my partner's daughter, who sadly has a daughter in spirit who's past obviously past very young. So we wondered whether it was her that came back at the time. Maybe, you know, we do sometimes think we have a portal in the hallway where spirit comes in and out. Because you know, as being psychic mediums, we are sometimes we walk out and think, oh, it's cold, you know, like something's open. And we think maybe that the lady that lived here came in and the child came in for Jenny to see her, because it's obviously Jen Jenny's child in spirit, to just to let her know that she's okay. And that's what we think we saw in the video. Obviously, the lady that lived here and the child was sadly the one Jenny lost very early on in life.

SPEAKER_02 54:49

Yeah, I'm very sorry about that, Jenny. Um about how long after I I guess Jenny moved in first, is that if I'm if I understood you correct?

SPEAKER_01 55:01

Correct, yes.

SPEAKER_02 55:02

About how long after she moved in, did anything begin to happen in that home?

SPEAKER_01 55:09

Would you like her to tell you the story of what happened to her when she was here?

SPEAKER_02 55:12

That'd be fantastic, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 55:17

Hang on, and she'll explain what happened to her. Yeah, I'm just passing you over. Bear with us.

SPEAKER_00 55:25

So basically, before I moved in, I kept saying to Spirit, come on, when am I gonna move? Because it seemed to be some sort of hold up. And they said to me, uh someone's got to pass before you can move. So that was number one thing. Then I had a dream, and I'm I'm saying to Spirit, come on, give me give me a sign when I'm supposed to move. So I had a dream about my gran, and she was showing me the keys, and she's saying, When the time's right, so I thought, Oh, okay. So um not long after obviously the lady had passed, and um I kept seeing signs like Churchill. Um we live sort of not far from uh a memorial to Churchill, and then there's sort of uh Churchill Homes and stuff like that, and the actual name of our road is Churchill Close, so I knew there was something going on, and then um yeah, that's right. They showed me the um actual bungalow, and I thought, yeah, I like this, I like the energy here, and it's a nice feeling. That's when I was uh I met the lady next door, and she said, What what you what you doing with Lily? And I said, No, no, no, this is Poppy, and exactly the same dog, white and everything, exactly the same breed, and then uh I moved in, and you know what it's like when you just moved, you're really, really tired, and I remember sort of sitting in the lounge in the chair and falling asleep and thinking, What are all these people doing here? Because I can I kept feeling all the spirit around me and like walking in and stuff, and then one night going off to sleep, I remember seeing some guy with a young child, and I said, 'What are you doing here?' and he said, 'Well, I just came in to have a look.' So, like, hence it's what we feel this portal is about. But you know, people seem to sort of come and go. Anyway, I said to this guy, No, no, no, I'm sorry, you you must go. Uh, you have to be invited to come in here. So he said, Oh, okay, and he left. And you know, stuff kind of like happened thereafter, really.

SPEAKER_02 58:26

That's a crazy coincidence. I mean, just about the dog, for instance, something small like that.

SPEAKER_00 58:32

No, no, no, come on. There's no such thing as coincidence.

SPEAKER_02 58:37

I guess that's what I'm what I'm trying to say, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 58:39

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I always say spirit have the plan. Absolutely they do, absolutely they do. Yeah, I mean, it's like um how Paul and I met, you know, we we met at um a paranormal investigation, and I was actually going to bring someone else, another guy. Oops, how dare I say that? But um, yeah, so I was gonna bring someone else, and and spirit kept saying to me, kept whispering to me, no, no, no, don't. And uh, so I thought, oh, okay. So then I'm putting makeup on to go to this venue with my friend, and they're saying, no, no, no, don't. I said, what, don't go? No, no, no, he doesn't like makeup. What? And that's absolutely true. Um, he likes sort of natural ladies, yeah. So so then we met, and you know, it was like, I don't know, like we've known each other for years.

SPEAKER_02 59:41

That's awesome. What an awesome story there. I'm running short on time here, and I feel like we have much more to cover. So I'm gonna have to have you back if I could for a part two next week. If you don't mind, we'll get you back on here, and then we'll continue with the conversation. But I thank you for being here, and we'll talk next week.

SPEAKER_01 59:59

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:01

Thank you for listening. I appreciate you being here. If you have an account to share and would like to be on the show, email me at show at accounts of paranormal.com and tell me what you saw. You can catch the show wherever you listen to podcasts, as well as our website, accounts ofparanormal.com, where you can access full episodes and links to all our socials and our YouTube channel, where you can listen and watch along with visual images. And if you're a fan of what you've heard here, please like, share, follow, and subscribe. I appreciate the support. See you next time.