Midlife: Fancy starting again?

In this episode of Midlife? No Crisis!, Katy is joined by guest co-host Pat for a relaxed but honest conversation about life, career choices, and midlife reflections.

With Katie away in Australia, they dive into the big question: if we could start again, what would we do differently?

From career paths and fitness journeys to IVF, family life, and the pressure of comparison, this episode is full of relatable moments, humour, and perspective — plus a side chat on Louis Theroux's The Manosphere.

💡 Key themes:

• Career & life choices
• Health & fitness in midlife
• Family, IVF & the empty nest
• Mindset, comparison & perspective

Don't forget to subscribe and share with your friends.

Keep in touch, follow our socials or send an email to hellomidlife@icloud.com.

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:23

Good morning. Good morning. How are you? I'm very well, thank you. This is nice, isn't it? This makes a nice change.

SPEAKER_03 0:32

Special Friday morning.

SPEAKER_05 0:34

I know. So welcome everybody to Midlife No Crisis. Um, you might notice that my guest host has got a slightly different accent to the uh the normal half Bristolian, half Mancunian that we have, uh Dulcet Tones of Katie Curry.

SPEAKER_02 0:49

Um Katie Curry's accent, it's good.

SPEAKER_05 0:53

It's so funny, every so often she's like goes proper northern and then she'll go like a little bit Bristolian, and it's like, where are you from?

SPEAKER_03 1:01

Who are you?

SPEAKER_05 1:02

Who are you? So we've got Pat with us today. Um if um everyone remembers, we had Pat doing a uh was appeared as a guest um probably about six weeks ago, I would say, something like that. Um, and uh we loved chatting to Pat so much that when I knew Katie was off for four weeks, I asked Pat if she would step in and uh fill Katie's shoes fabulously as our guest host today, which is um what brings us.

SPEAKER_03 1:30

I don't know about filling them fabulously, but I'll be a replacement.

SPEAKER_05 1:36

She is worried, she is worried. She's she's thinking she's gonna get replaced.

SPEAKER_02 1:40

Oh, absolutely not. Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_05 1:45

She'll be fine. So just to explain, if everyone's not caught up, Katie's in Australia. Um, and uh, we've actually not shared any of her pictures on the the midlife no crisis social page, which I should do and I will do later on. Um, but she is having a fabulous time. She's got all her family with her, so she's got her two children and Dave, and I think she's just loving life, looking at all those pictures.

SPEAKER_03 2:09

So I don't know why I thought she'd gone. I knew her daughter was out there, but I thought she'd gone out on her own to see her daughter. So that's oh that's even more lovely.

SPEAKER_05 2:19

So this is well, this is the big thing. So she's gone, they've all gone her husband and James, her son have gone, and James is staying. So when they come back in a week's time, she's leaving both her children in Australia. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:37

The the that's what incredible parenting.

SPEAKER_03 2:41

You've done a brilliant job of raising your children to be independent and live on the other side of the world. 100%.

SPEAKER_05 2:49

Yeah, I agree, I agree. I've I'm absolutely feeling the pain of what she'll go through, but I think it is incredible, and um she should be really proud of her kids that they can do that.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

Oh incredibly proud. I'm not crying.

SPEAKER_05 3:08

Second hand. I know second hand of happiness. I know, I know it is, it is, it is. It's yeah. And do you know what? I think eventually if they if they stay over there, the kids, then why don't Katie and Dave move over there? It's got to be better than this bloody country, hasn't it?

SPEAKER_03 3:28

Yeah. Sometimes, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 3:31

It's um so yes, what would you normally be doing on a lovely Friday morning then, Pat?

SPEAKER_03 3:42

Take myself back to just a couple of years ago. On a Friday morning, I would be in a sports hall or on a playing field, um teaching teenagers. Um at this time of the year, just before Easter, well they're probably I'd probably be doing some trampoline or table tennis, actually. Oh yeah, that's probably what we'd be doing. So I've still not quite adjusted. I still kind of pinch myself now on a Friday morning. I could be seeing clients, uh, I'd maybe be going a walk. Um, but yeah, I still kind of pinch myself now and go, I'm not in school. Yeah. Um, yeah, I have been doing an occasional Friday in Lancaster for the University of Cumbria with the trainee teachers. So that's been nice as well, as a little kind of at the university, walking around the campus, you know, strange. But yeah, definitely. This is the first time on a Friday morning I've been doing a podcast. Hopefully not the last. Who knows what comes up on a Friday morning now? I've come to just expect uh anything. What about yourself? Because you and Katie don't normally record a podcast on a Friday, so what are you normally doing?

SPEAKER_05 4:59

No, so well, this is the third of my nine-day fortnight attempts um today. So I've I've managed two, and then for various reasons, I've had annual leave and just general busyness. I've not done any more. So today was a kind of official, unofficial um day off, but I've actually managed to fill it as you do because I'm not quite accustomed to saying I've got nothing to do. Um, so I can't remember if I mentioned it on the podcast before, but I'm doing a coaching and mentoring course through work. So I'm doing ILM level seven, so looking at executive coaching, which is something that I started probably 10 years ago in an in my old job and never finished it with coming to work at where I work now. And um, my boss has very kindly agreed to let me sort of finish it off basically. Well, I've had to start again, obviously, 10 years later. Um, so this today has been I've got to do 20 hours of coaching to complete the qualification. So today I'm having all my first conversations with people, so they call them chemistry calls, where we sort of agree what we're going to talk about and how we're going to operate and sort of the next six sessions and and the plan for that.

SPEAKER_03 6:17

So are these can I ask you some questions about you can, yeah, yeah. Just because I I'm interested. Um, so are these volunteers? Yes. Did you yeah, did you have you sourced those volunteers yourself, or is there a pool of people waiting? No, I've sourced them.

SPEAKER_05 6:35

So I've got quite a good external network outside of work because I chair a um an industry group, and so I went out to the committee of my industry group and said if you've got anyone in your business who needs any coaching or mentoring and is happy to come to someone who's not actually qualified yet, um, then then and and I literally got inundated. Like I was a bit surprised, really. So so I had to do a bit of a um a narrowing down exercise with everyone.

SPEAKER_03 7:05

That's really useful though, because you've got people that will that want to benefit from it and want to be there, yeah, as opposed to people that are just doing you a favour.

SPEAKER_05 7:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:17

So it's mutual, it's mutual beneficial, isn't it?

SPEAKER_05 7:20

Yeah, definitely. So we have had my first call at nine and then I've got a couple more later. So so yeah, I'm having I'm actually quite enjoying it so far. We'll see how it goes. But I'll I will no doubt keep you all up to date on that one.

SPEAKER_03 7:34

Yeah, yeah, that's interesting. I look forward to hearing more about it.

SPEAKER_05 7:38

So in between all of that, I'm obviously doing all the washing as well.

SPEAKER_03 7:43

I've got a loader on waiting to go out because the weather's nice.

SPEAKER_05 7:47

I know, and that is a benefit, isn't it? We've got bedding in to wash because I'm thinking I'd get that out on the line, definitely.

SPEAKER_03 7:53

Yeah, yeah. Well, it was it's the it's the living room throws I was going to do, but my dad, as we speak, is currently driving down uh from Scotland and he brings the fabulous Coco who is a boxer dog. Oh gosh. So I was like, I'm not gonna wash those until coco until Coco's been.

SPEAKER_05 8:14

No, absolutely. Oh, so what have you got planned with your dad this weekend?

SPEAKER_03 8:18

Um we the only thing that's definitely planned is we're going out for dinner tomorrow night. So it was a kind of post, it was my birthday a week or so ago, um, Mother's Day, so it was a post kind of thing like that. So he's picked his there are a restaurant down here he likes to go to, so we're going there with the kids. And Matt's plans have been cancelled this weekend. So I think Matt might be joining us potentially if he's feeling better. Uh and that's there's football, netball, because he was coming down to give me a lift with the kids. I can't do everything that needs to be done with the kids um on my own just because of geography and logistics. So but yeah, we'll probably we'll eat food, we'll we'll have a couple of nice drinks and just chill. Yeah, it'll be nice.

SPEAKER_05 9:10

Oh, very nice. Yeah, it's nice to do that, isn't it? It even though it's not your holiday, it feels a bit like a holiday when people come and stay with you, doesn't it? Because you don't do what you normally do.

SPEAKER_03 9:21

Yeah. And two people in the last week have told me about is it Royal Bridgewater, the Gap. Have you not been? Never, never been. Love it there. So I think might take them there tomorrow morning.

SPEAKER_05 9:36

Yeah. Yeah, me, we we took my parents um at the end of the summer last year, I think it was. Everything there was everything was still out, so it was it was beautiful. Um, and my mum joined actually, having been, because she enjoyed it so much. I don't think she's actually been back since she joined, so I do need to take her again. I think I need to take her if she's gonna go. Um but yeah, it's beautiful. There's there's loads to see. So if you like gardens, it's fabulous.

SPEAKER_03 10:03

Well, that's it. I think somebody was saying that last week. You can about the joining and the different things. And I think if you join, you can take someone else for free.

SPEAKER_05 10:12

You can, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:13

So yeah, well, uh the the first point of call is the cafe, obviously.

SPEAKER_05 10:18

Obviously, yeah. Well, they've got a few cafes and they've got a little garden centre as well, which and the obviously the quality of the plants in there is really good. I mean, I am quite geeky with stuff like that. I like high-quality plants. Um, I'm gonna warn you that I might have a delivery arriving any minute. So if that happens, I'll cut it out. I'll cut this bit out. It's fine.

unknown 10:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 10:37

Um, so I've been trying to sell our camper van this week. That's something that I've been up to.

SPEAKER_03 10:44

Okay, and how's that going?

SPEAKER_05 10:45

Absolute nightmare. I mean, it's not my van for a start, it's Neil's van, so he really should be selling it.

SPEAKER_01 10:52

So then why are you how how has this job arrived on your plate?

SPEAKER_05 10:57

Well, you're married and you have a husband, so I'm sure you can answer that question for yourself.

SPEAKER_03 11:06

I took I took a mouthful at the wrong time then. That's a really silly question. I apologize. No, it's let's go back to why it's a nightmare trying to sell.

SPEAKER_05 11:18

Just it's just the time wasters, and I had someone trying to scam me as well this week. So this guy uh contacted me on Wednesday and was um was asking questions about the van. And you know, when you're reading something and it's like doesn't quite sound right, and I couldn't really put my finger on it, it was just the way it was worded. So we carried on having the conversation, he was asking the right questions, and I thought, where's like it's definitely not real this, but where's he going with it? So we'd got to the point of he was going to come look at it today, and the next thing I got an email from him um saying that his mechanic had advised that you use this specific website to do a vehicle check and could I do that and then send it to him. So then it ensued, because then I was like, right, well, that's your scam, isn't it? So so I went back and I said, Well, we've done one with another company. Will you accept that? Came back. Well, my mechanic has specifically recommended this one. So I had to look at it and it was a scam. It like everyone when you googled it, it was a scam. So I went back and went, I've just looked at it, it looks like it's a scam. So perhaps your mechanics not to be trusted. No, absolutely, I've used it, it's fine. Um you must be looking at the wrong site. So I went back. No, definitely looking at the right side. I don't suppose you work for them, do you? And he came back. I don't work for anyone. When I sold my camper van, this is the one I used. So I sent him the report that we'd already had done, and then I've heard nothing from him since. But any someone else would just click on that link and then fill the doc. And I just think, oh God, I hate them. I hate them so much.

SPEAKER_03 12:56

It's it's awful, isn't it? And it's you and you wonder, obviously, he's trying to get details from you going to the website and do it, and then you wonder where that could could go to. Um, I get time wasters through my business. Um, and it tends to be think the first time I did paid ads on social media, um, and it was only, I think you can target it to your area. And the WhatsApp, I've got a business WhatsApp, um and it was really awful what some people sent through. Really awful, yeah, really awful. Like images, pictures, short videos. And because it was the first time I did it, uh yeah, so I've got to the point now. I I feel like I'm quite good at sniffing it, like you've sniffed it straight away, but now I just a block. Yeah. Um, but then yeah, it's difficult. And then like you, some people got get to the point where I've created a blank form ready to make notes because we've arranged a meeting. Oh wow. To to start getting information, and you get you you call up and you're ready to go, and there's no they're just being weird. I don't understand. Too much time at their hand.

SPEAKER_05 14:21

Yeah. I don't understand it. It's just just time. Well, it is it's time wasting. And I thought that's Neil said. He said, as soon as you knew it was a scam, why did you carry on? I said, Well, to be honest with you, I thought I knew, and he was wasting his time on me, so at least he wasn't getting anyone else while he wasted his time on me. So I was quite happy to string him along with that, but I it does really I know I can entirely get that.

SPEAKER_03 14:45

You just it's playing the game a little bit, isn't it? It's like, yeah, I'll I'll play it, you know, the game.

SPEAKER_05 14:51

Yeah. I'd um my godfather, my um uncle Billy used to do that with cold callers. You know, if someone rang up about double glazing or something, he'd literally keep them on the phone, talk about what windows, get them right to the end of it, and then he'd go, actually, do you know what I'm not that interested in and leave it if you like? They're not bothering anyone else while I'm talking to them.

SPEAKER_03 15:12

Yeah, yeah. Uh yeah. Life lesson. Life lesson, yeah. You might be on the scammers, like, less to avoid now. They've blocked me. Don't bother one.

SPEAKER_05 15:24

Yeah. I I'd be quite happy with that, to be fair. Um another question I've got for you before we talk about our topic. Um, have you watched the Louis Thoreau documentary, The Manosphere, yet?

SPEAKER_03 15:37

So I've watched part of it, yes. Have you? I take it you have.

SPEAKER_05 15:42

I watched it, yeah. I wasn't I wasn't gonna watch it because everyone had kind of I think people that I'd spoken to were were so shocked by it and almost a bit disgusted like by it that I thought, I don't really know if I've got the headspace to to watch it, but I did and I watched it all. Um I was yeah, quite shocking, really. Really disturbing, I suppose, is the right word, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 16:05

Yeah, I do need to watch the rest of it. And I was speaking to someone about it last night, actually, one of one of my a client actually that's like um um young man, early twenties, and he was going off to watch it, so we're discussing it. I feel like I need a bit of time to be able to articulate correctly what I think. Yeah um but that behaviour has been around for forever, yeah, and certainly working in high schools and some young people there and males, that behavior has has existed and that treatment has come towards female staff. Absolutely, but I think the difference is now that on a platform that's accessible to vulnerable young men as opposed to just being contained within a small environment.

SPEAKER_05 17:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:12

And I think the last little bit that I watched, and I was like, I need to I need to rewind it and watch it again, which I I will do, it's the last little bit. It's like some people had come up to speak to this guy, and he was saying, these uh boys, these won't get anything they want in life because they've not got the female parts.

SPEAKER_05 17:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:32

So they would they need something else.

SPEAKER_05 17:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:35

It's like wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 17:40

I think wow, it's you're right, it's you need time to think about it afterwards. And I was talking to someone about it in Pilates last night, and and she was saying I was a bit disappointed he didn't go deeper on some of the topics, but I think actually what he did was quite clever, really, because and what what Louis Thorew always does with his documentaries is he he never judges, he never he asks difficult questions and he doesn't agree with everything, but he leaves you to draw your own conclusions from it. And I think what the conclusion that I drew, because he did he was quite clever at the end, he just didn't make a big deal of it, but just showed a couple of the men, because they're men now, as they were as boys on social media, you know, starting off when they were 14, 15, the usual stuff that all our kids have done over the years, the you know, trying to create a YouTube channel, all that sort of thing. And it my conclusion that I've drawn, whether it's right or wrong, I don't know, is that these men uh wanted some kind of platform or fame, and they've chosen, they've chosen this channel, they've chosen this route because it's what's given them the most fame, and it's almost like they're play acting. And I think what Louis Through asked a couple of them was the responsibility they felt to the wider um population because what you're saying isn't real, and I don't think you believe it, but you're doing it to make money and you're doing it to have fame, and that's the bit that they obviously really enjoy, yeah, but it's not real, and you don't really believe it. And and I just thought that it was so clever the way you did it. And I spoke to Freya about it afterwards because I was just intrigued whether she knew who these influencers were, because I would never have known of them um if not for that documentary. And she did know the the Harrison, the HS, whatever Tiki Talkie was.

SPEAKER_00 19:35

Tiki talkie.

SPEAKER_05 19:36

Yeah, she knew of him and she she was very disparaging of him. She said he'd it had a song out that everyone used to sing. She said, Bet even Lottie sung it. I was like, bloody hell, how's Lottie singing it? And um, and then she said uh she said that people I can't remember how she she worded it in a very teenage way, but basically people had tried to emulate him but then realised that he was an idiot and he's he's completely lost all his. I believe it's called aura.

SPEAKER_00 20:03

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:05

No, I no, I I entirely agree with that. They found a way to monetize um that that little gap by being controversial, and I think because one of them said his mum was totally the opposite when he was being homophobic, his mum wouldn't be pleased. And I was like, I don't believe you believe any of this, it's um but other people, the people that are being influenced, yeah, think it's real, yeah, and that's the worry. Yeah, what one yeah, because they're acting, yeah, and wrong. But these other people, yeah. Well one of the things I found really interesting, and I've witnessed this type of behavior, was when he asked them the the guy in America about how many children he had, and he was so evasive. Yeah, I can't remember how he worded it.

SPEAKER_05 21:02

And he was like, Yeah, I've got some.

SPEAKER_03 21:06

And it's like what's wrong with it? It's just such a strange way to behave. Yeah, and you started getting a little bit of that in school. It's like, oh what you you know, like what's your name? And it's like, why do we need to tell you my name? Yeah. And you're like, because I when I speak to you, I'd like to use your name as I speak to you, as opposed to I'd like to get to know who you are, as opposed to, but they don't want to tell you because of doing something wrong. And they don't it's like it's bizarre, like it's a control thing. Yeah, it is control, isn't it? It's a control thing, and tell it, yeah. But that's what I don't understand. It's yeah. Madness.

SPEAKER_05 21:56

Anyway, anyway, we're not gonna solve the manosphere. I feel like the manosphere is a whole. Podcast on its own, isn't it? But not necessarily a group of people that I particularly want to tackle.

SPEAKER_03 22:05

No, and I very much like you, I've had a conversation with my my kids, and I was like, Do you know who this person is? And whatever. And because I think the other thing that concerns me, I know we're getting off the topic. But no, no, no. Well, we do, stuff we do. Um the other thing that concerns me is that behavior that can be displayed in one place can be hidden in another place. So someone can be like that outside their own home, and their parents and friends might not see that behaviour because in the home they conform to what's expected. But when they're outside and they're dating and they're doing all these things, that type of behaviour is there.

SPEAKER_05 22:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:57

That's what concerns me. They see it on social media, they think it's okay, but actually, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 23:03

Yeah, and and that's not how we treat people. I guess to without um making a massively sweeping statement, I think that's applicable more to men than to women, because I do think that men behave in a certain way in a family situation, in their home situation, and and I obviously see this so much with working with mainly men, um, and then they come in to the office or they're with the lads, and it's like they're a different person. I do think that's that's a pressure that men perhaps feel more than women, maybe. I don't know. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Anyway, anyway, we'll let someone clever than that. We'll put the lid on that kind of. Yeah, let's put the manosphere in room 101, leave it there.

SPEAKER_02 23:48

Let's absolutely okay.

SPEAKER_05 23:58

Well, let's move on to the topic of the day. I'm really jealous of your hot brew, by the way. Can I just I'll need to make an admission? So I made myself a cup of tea and I put the kettle on, went and did something, came back, poured the water in, came upstairs, went to drink it, and it was stony cold. So I'm a bit disappointed in myself. So I've just got boring water now. Um, so we thought I thought, and suggested to Pat that it would be a nice idea to pick a topic that kind of um was a bit umbrella over some of the things that we've talked about recently and kind of fit quite well with what we talked about with you previously as well. So um today we're titling the the podcast, If we were starting again, dot dot dot dot. Because I thought it would be we've talked about careers recently with the in terms of our kids and their subject choices, we've talked about retirement previously, we've talked about all sorts of things. And we're also well, I'm coming to a milestone age, you've still got a couple of years, but it'll come to you. Um yes, it's women and it does it does make you think it a little bit like you know, if I was to go back to being 25, would I do anything differently in my life? So let's start with that question. Would you?

SPEAKER_00 25:21

Neither broad.

SPEAKER_03 25:25

Live by the sea I think as a whole, no. I think I kind of like not and I live with no regrets type thing, but and I'm not a woo-woo, but I just kind of think things happen for a reason and you make those decisions. And I think we are of a generation where if we did want to move abroad or we did want to do those things, we absolutely could have done. Yeah. But for whatever reason we've chosen certain things. So like I wouldn't have moved abroad. There's no way I would have moved to, I mean, I moved to another country from a family, but the closest country I could move to. But yeah, I I couldn't have moved abroad and like I wouldn't have wanted to have moved away so far away from my family, my parents. So I think ultimately, no. I think I quite enjoyed my twenties. I feel like I've I lived a bit of a life, you know. How about you?

SPEAKER_05 26:32

I think um it's funny, isn't it? If I was to break it down, there are definitely things I would have done differently. But looking at my life as a whole now, I wouldn't change a thing because if I changed anything, it would mean I wouldn't have what I have now, and I love what I have now. And I think that that's um and like you, I'm I'm not um I'm not a massively spiritual person, um, particularly um or anything like that really. But I do think that when you've got you you've got to recognise when you've got it good, and I've I've definitely know that I've I've got it good, and I'm I'm very lucky with my life. So on that basis, I I wouldn't change anything globally. Yeah. Um, I'm I'm definitely I'm definitely happy. But then I think going back to individual moments in time, there are things that I would perhaps have done differently. Um I wish that and I think that's probably more related to career than anything else because I think, and I touched on this last week when we talked about no last week, the week before, we recorded so many podcasts in one night before Katie went away. I'm so confused by what we've done.

SPEAKER_00 27:49

Lost track.

SPEAKER_05 27:50

Um but I think if um I did a degree that I just did because I did it, there was no real strategy behind what I did in my degree. Um and I feel like going back now, perhaps knowing what I know or understanding the world as I do now, I would I would change what I did degree-wise, definitely.

SPEAKER_03 28:12

What degree did you do? So I've not caught up with that episode yet.

SPEAKER_05 28:15

No, no, it's fine. Um, so I did, I started on a hospitality management degree because um I didn't really know what I wanted to do.

SPEAKER_03 28:22

And if I could have picked any degree you would have done, it would not be hospitality management.

SPEAKER_05 28:30

Like people part, I don't know what was on my mind with that.

SPEAKER_03 28:34

Wow, I don't know what I was expecting you to see, but that was like top of it, not what I was expecting you to see.

SPEAKER_05 28:42

It was basically I'd had far too much fun doing my A levels, as in not doing my A levels and going out, going to the hacienda with Katie. Um, and I I didn't do brilliantly on my A levels. It did create some tension at home with my parents, I have to admit. And I was working in a hotel at the same time, and that was my job. And I thought, well, I quite like doing this, so maybe I could do this for a living. I could see myself doing this for a living. Um, and at 18, Christ, what do you really know about life? And and what do you really understand about jobs and what's available to you? So um I went and did this hospitality management degree. I realized quite quickly into it that I didn't really want to work in hotels. I quite enjoyed what I did, like I enjoyed the management side of it, but then um we had to do a a year out. It was like a sandwich degree, and my year out failed for various reasons, which I won't go into now, but it didn't happen as it should have done, and I had a bit of a meltdown and thought I don't want to do this degree anymore. So I had a really good tutor at the time who kind of counselled me through it a little bit, and he advised me to shift from the degree I was on to one called service sector management, so it was a wider topic, it wasn't just hotels, it didn't require the sandwich, and I could take the two years that I'd already completed and and shift them on to the new degree. So I did that and I completed that. Um and I basically just got through it. It was for me, it was just I needed to, I couldn't let the two years that I'd spent waste. Yeah. Um, so I got through it, finished it, didn't do very well, got two two, um, and then went travelling. And I think it it was, and I said this the other week, the travelling was a better education for life for me than I think university was. I had a lovely time, got some brilliant friends that I'm still really good friends with. Did you go down to London for university? No, I went to Leeds. You went to Leeds? So I wasn't too far away, that was important because I was quite like I guess, yeah, just not probably lacking a bit of confidence. I wanted to be close to home. I'd had friends who also went to Leeds, so that helped. And yeah, it was it was more of a security blanket. I didn't stretch myself very far. I wasn't very good at putting myself out of my comfort. So what what did you do at uni? Presumably teaching.

SPEAKER_03 31:01

It's funny because uh when you sent me the topic over and it was a little bit, what would you do? Like I went to school and in Scotland there wasn't you stayed on for sex form, or you kind of went and you got an apprenticeship and something vocational, or you got a job, so you could leave education at 16. I literally went to school and stayed at school till I was 18, went to uni till I was 22, and went back to school until I was 46. I knew from quite uh definitely from secondary school age that I wanted to be a PE teacher. Absolutely just knew that's what I wanted to do. But it was it's very competitive. There was like one uh university in Scotland that does it at the time, and I think there was like I don't know, 70 places. And um I'd had I think I've mentioned it before, like when I was 15, I had a brain tumour, so which was on the back.

SPEAKER_05 32:17

I did not know that about you.

SPEAKER_03 32:19

You didn't know that about me.

SPEAKER_05 32:20

I did not know that about you.

SPEAKER_03 32:22

How did I not know that? Yeah, but well, to be honest, it's not something I ever talked about because I did I didn't want to be, I suppose, uh defined by it. Yeah, no, I get that. So imagine being imagine being 15 and it was like that happened and it was like so unusual. I mean, I very rural area where I grew up, etc. And I had but you know, I wanted to be a P teacher prior to that brain tumour. And it was on the balance part of my brain. So any rotation or any turn-in, like they basically said after I'd had um it removed, etc., that I wouldn't be able to walk the beam or whatever. So they didn't expect that I would be able to be a P teacher. Wow. So I covered my bases with primary teaching because it all for purposes. I just knew that's what I wanted to do. Yeah. So I didn't I didn't get into the college in Scotland to do the to do the teaching. Very competitive, and whether it was to what whatever. Um so I I went to Liverpool.

unknown 33:37

Right.

SPEAKER_03 33:37

So I'm I moved that that that's kind of why I moved here because I got a place at Liverpool. So I moved here. So I think from that point on it was kind of like I don't I don't know, I think I had a point to prove to myself probably more than anybody else. Um it's quite a good age to get a brain tumour because you just it it doesn't it must have been I think it was probably worse for my parents and everyone else than it was for me.

SPEAKER_04 34:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:04

So so I think I just then went on gung-ho, this is what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_05 34:10

Wow. My god, I don't believe I I can't believe I didn't know that about you. That's that's a rubbish friendship for you.

SPEAKER_03 34:16

No, it's not because it is certainly not something that I that y talk about. And to be fair, because I was asked to write a chapter in a book last year. That kind of in a lot of ways is where the story starts. So I had to tell my kids because I've never told them.

SPEAKER_04 34:36

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_03 34:38

Because yeah, I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 34:40

It's just yeah, that's incredible part. I mean, and I know you you you kind of you would and I would never define you by it because you're you because you're you aren't you, but I love that you said it was quite a good time to get it, a quite good age to get it. Because you've obviously you've you've dealt with it really healthily in your mind, like that that that's you know, that's happened and it's not shaped me, but I suppose it has in a way, but in a really positive way. So that's amazing.

SPEAKER_03 35:09

Yeah, it's it's that mindset, I suppose, of a 15-year-old. I had no idea what it was. I didn't even know how to spell it, a tumor. Yeah, you yeah, yeah, you know, no idea. So I remember like kind of being out of hospital and going for a run, and I think my dad was I very clearly remember my dad was gardening, and I was going out. We were we lived out in the country, and I was going out for a run. My mum was at work, and my dad says, Where are you going? So I'm going for a run. You better not tell your mother so many weeks after surgery, because you just whereas now as an adult, you'd be like, Oh, I better take care of myself.

SPEAKER_05 35:51

Yeah, oh god, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:54

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 35:55

Yeah. So wow, that's really interesting. What um what did your mum do for a living? You said your mum was at work. What did she do?

SPEAKER_03 36:04

My mum worked in Martin Spencer's.

SPEAKER_05 36:06

Oh, did she? Oh my god, that's my mum's dream job.

SPEAKER_03 36:10

Yeah, she um she worked for Martin Spencer in the menswear department. Wow, and little claim to fame, it was the same Martin Spencer store where Calvin Harris worked.

SPEAKER_05 36:22

No way.

SPEAKER_03 36:23

Did she know him? He worked in the food hall downstairs and she worked upstairs. Oh so we were driving one day when I was up, like before Calvin was was big. Yeah. His real name's Adam. And we were driving exactly where we were, and she was like, do the horn, to the horn, there's Adam. And because they had there was other people that worked there as well that were in the little band. And she was like, so that's that that's a little funny story. Um yeah, she they she used to call it he was tinkering in his bedroom and stuff.

SPEAKER_05 37:04

But I guess that's what he was doing, wasn't he? Because they're quite geeky, aren't they, DJs? They're quite technology, technically geeky. So yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:14

So yeah, she got to March and Spencer's.

SPEAKER_05 37:16

Interesting. Yeah. Very good. Yeah, my mum worked, but she she'd been um a Cropodist, actually. She was a Coropodist and she gave up work when we were born. So I didn't know her as a person with a career until she went back to work when I was about 12, I think. Um and she went back to work because my dad's business had failed and we'd had to move house and all that kind of stuff. So she was kind of in a position where she had to work. Um, but I think she quite enjoyed work at the same time. So I suppose my point is from a work ethic perspective, she she did give me quite a good work ethic. And you know, she and she was a professional, like she'd been, you know, she'd been a crapist, she'd done, she'd done, she was highly qualified. We do take the piss out of her a little bit because she literally reckons she knows everything there is to know about everything, particularly around health. Like, you're a foot doctor, you don't know about that. You only know from the DP.

SPEAKER_03 38:15

I'm sure when you've said that, that's just I'm sure we used to call my mum Dr. Helen. It's like here's Dr. Helen. She'll know the answer.

SPEAKER_05 38:24

Yeah, I know what we do, and to be fair, what I do still, and it's ridiculous, isn't it? Because I'll go to the GP for something and whatever they've prescribed to me, I'll ring my mum and say, This is what they've given me. What is that right? And it's like she doesn't, she's not practiced for 20 years. Still not a clue. Mary will know. You know, anti-Mary will know. So um, so careers, yeah. So I think probably if anything, careers. I think the other thing that I would maybe do a little bit differently is health. So when I say health, I probably mean fitness actually, in that I didn't really do anything fitness-wise until I was early 20s, I reckon. I mean, at school I was not sporty, I didn't wasn't in any of the teams. Really?

SPEAKER_03 39:08

Yeah, this is conversation, Katie. We don't know each other at all. So enlightening, isn't it? I love it. I can't believe that. I know it's and it's been shocking. It is because I don't know if it's as much shocking that you did a degree in hospitality or that you didn't like sport. I need to leave this now. Why can't I get into this? I don't know who you are.

SPEAKER_05 39:33

I don't know you. Um I think what we need is a few more nights out, part. This is this is the problem. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 39:39

We I need a but we need an agenda of questions.

SPEAKER_05 39:42

I know a questionnaire we'll go through. Um, yeah, so I did I wasn't sporty at all, and I think that was because I was asthmatic, and so I was always a bit of a poorly child. Like I'd I couldn't really run or do anything like that without having an asthma attack. Um, and I think I was probably my mum was probably a little bit molycodling of that as well, like wouldn't force me to go and do stuff. Um and understandably, I suppose it's quite scary to have a child with asthma. Um but then I remember doing um, I lived in London and they were doing like a fun runny 5k type thing. Um, and I did that with work and it kind of properly switched me on to running. So it was so that I probably picked that up like maybe 23, 24. And then when I came back up north, I carried it on. I my brother used to be really well, he still is really into fitness, but I used to run with him, did a few 10ks, worked my way up to a marathon, then I did all my all my other ridiculous challenges and triathlons and hyroxes and all that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_04 40:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 40:49

Um, but I've kind of discovered weight training and that sort of thing just before I turned 40. So that's where we met Holly, who obviously we've got friendship with.

SPEAKER_04 40:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 40:59

Um, and that was my I wouldn't want to turn 40 and be a fat 40-year-old. So I was like, I was standard, yeah. So I really got and and I really and I think it probably took me a few years to understand properly about weight training and stuff, and Holly would probably argue that I still don't. Um, but I think I wish I'd known some of that sooner in life. Like I wish I'd understood about you know muscle growth and protecting all you all of that stuff that's really important about looking after your health and fitness.

SPEAKER_03 41:34

Um I do think that's evolved as well, though, the the strength training side of things and fitness, because you know, that kind of like my late teens, twenties, it was all that aerobics and step aerobics and th things like that. And it was let like yeah, they had the gym, but people I mean, there would have been people that were well into strength training, but it's such a big thing now, isn't it? That I think we've evolved at the time that it's happened, yeah. As opposed to maybe missed out on it.

SPEAKER_05 42:11

Yeah, you're right actually, because I remember um I think me and Katie have touched on this previously, but talking about aerobics, my mum used to do videotape aerobics classes, like there was the girl who was on Good Morning Britain or whatever it was called, Lizzie, I think something she was called, and then there was the Mr. Motivator and Mr.

SPEAKER_03 42:31

Motivate again, they had the leggings and the bright outfits, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 42:35

That's right, yeah, yeah. But I I suppose, yeah, I mean, I probably haven't um taken much of an interest in my health until I've gotten a bit older and thought, oh god, gotten old now, I need to look after this old body.

SPEAKER_03 42:49

Yeah, it's funny because I feel like I've gone the opposite way. So I was always really in into sport. I mean, growing up where I grew up, there wasn't loads of choices. So there was a youth club that did badminton and crown green boat, no carpet bowling. Oh my god, a very good carpet bowler growing up. Um but then as I moved to secondary school, the opportunities in my secondary school, like back in the 90s, was incredible. Like we played hockey all the time, we played volleyball, we basketball. Um we did loads and we still had sport on Saturday mornings. Wow. It it it it was awesome. My PE teacher was incredible. I'm still friends with her now, such an inspiration. I got qualified, she used to do aerobics classes, um, I used to go to those, and we had like all the bright things and everything. Um I'm a qualified aerobics instructor. Oh, I yeah, yeah, I can do a great in all directions. Um and then I you know started obviously went to P did Loads of stuff there, and I still kept doing things, and I'm not sure at what point it was where things changed a bit more towards that strength training or running. At some point I stopped enjoying it. And I think because it moved away from the fun stuff, the game stuff to not not doing that and not kind of prioritising and attending things that I moved away so long that now when I've gone back and I want to play tennis and I want to play paddle, my joints hurt, and I end up getting injured and everything, and I can't do it. So I've really had to make a point to go back to exercise with the strength training because of my age. But that's for a purpose to allow me to go back to some of the things I used to enjoy.

SPEAKER_05 44:57

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:58

Um because I really fell out of like love, I think, with exercise. And I think I don't enjoy it, never gets easier. So it's that kind of mindset when you just went and played or you did aerobics, you went, you did the class, you done it. But now it's this thing, well, if you left 5k you then need to move up to 6k, and if you left 6k, you then need to move up to there. And I think there was a point maybe about 10 years ago where everything in life, you're busy with kids, you're busy with work, you don't feel like you're winning at anything. Yeah, and I I think in my mind somewhere I thought I'm not winning in this either, and it was one thing too much. So I was always coming away, feeling like I was trap. Yeah. Which is weird, isn't it? And I d I don't think I realized that until I stopped. Yeah. And I don't know whether that was me feeling comp competitive with myself or I hated going to these classes where everybody had to hold a plank until you'd finish your reps. Yeah. So much pressure. You know, or you were doing the plank and somebody had to finish their reps, and I needed to start my plank. And if you stopped your plank, everybody else had to start the plank again. And it's like I've had a really stressful week at work. I've had I I want some downtime, I didn't need that. And I think I just got totally turned off.

SPEAKER_05 46:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:37

And just avoided it for ages, and now I'm at the point of trying to start again.

SPEAKER_05 46:42

Does it does that make sense? It makes yeah, it makes sense. I think the the reason why I got so much out of it, and I mean I agree with you on the classes, and I I I did probably the same classes as you and then stopped doing them because I didn't enjoy it, and and I'm competitive enough, like I'm happy to compete with myself. I don't need to compete with a room full of people who are different ages and abilities to me. So one thing that I found so good was we started doing this PT class on a Saturday morning, which we started as part of our Being Fit for 40 thing, which was Lynn's and um Jo and Michelle. And that would become like a it was more than a workout. We would work out and we would work really hard on a Saturday morning. We'd be there at 7am virtually every morning for getting on for 10 years, we did it. But it was like um, I don't know, it was just I suppose it's a habit, isn't it? But it was also an opportunity to see my friends, and we enjoyed it, we enjoyed being together, we enjoyed pushing each other enough, but also knowing, and and Holly was as a PT was brilliant at is brilliant at knowing when to not push you, and when you don't need that pressure, you just need someone to just encourage you or just say, Do you know what, do something else, we'll do this, we'll do the other.

SPEAKER_02 48:01

Absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 48:02

And I think I learned to enjoy that, and then during lockdown, obviously, we didn't have that, and I joined an app called Fit, and that allowed you to work out with other people on the app, so you could do a class with someone else or other group of people, and we actually, because it was lockdown and you you did this, we created like a little virtual group on Facebook, and we were all like none of us have ever met in person. I think maybe one or two did in the end, but we had this little gang going on, and we'd do workouts together in the morning, and you could do it competitively, or you could just do it so that you knew that someone else. And I had a workout partner um who was a lady in South Wales, and we would work out every morning together. I've never met her. We got we got to be Instagram friends, but um, but we just kept each other going, and I think that that accountability and that camaraderie, if that's the right word, works really well with exercise. And and again, I think um you know, if I could find I've not I've I've we don't train with Holly anymore, and I've not been able to find that again. So I need I need that I need that. I yeah, yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_03 49:08

Because like when you said about Linz, Linz and I pre-kids, we would meet in the morning and we would go for a run before work, and you know, we would do these things, and I'd I don't know. It's interesting because I think the problem was entirely my problem. It was it was where my mind was at. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um I think that it was just always too hard. Always too hard, and I didn't have the capacity to do it.

SPEAKER_05 49:39

We've talked we've touched on mental load loads in these podcasts, and I I do think it's that mental load that exercise, if it's not a habit and if it's not something you enjoy, it's just another thing to tick off the list. And actually, if you're not enjoying something, and you it's hard to see the benefit of exercise because it's not obvious, you're not gonna immediately have a six-pack. I mean, I've never had a six-pack and I never will. So you don't see the immediate benefits of it, and it's hard to get into the mindset of doing it then. So it it just increases the mental load rather than than helping it, really, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_02 50:14

Yeah, yeah, that's it. That's it.

SPEAKER_05 50:18

So we've talked about careers and health. Um, we're not going to talk about relationships because me and Katie did a drunken relationships podcast last week, which I've still got regrets about.

SPEAKER_01 50:30

Um so we'll talk about we'll talk about um there's no regrets relationship-wise. No, it's fabulous, everything's wonderful. I have the best husband in the world.

SPEAKER_05 50:44

So let's talk about mistakes. So blessed. Let's talk about mistakes quickly before because we're going to run out of time. Um, are there anything is there anything in your life that's happened that you might class as a mistake, but actually it's been in a good way? Do you know something that's improved your life or something that if you if it hadn't happened, you wouldn't be where you are now?

SPEAKER_03 51:11

Have you got something? Have you thought about this?

SPEAKER_05 51:14

Well, so I suppose we again I probably did touch on it a little bit last week, and and it it's it's not a mistake as such, is it, but it was a tough time for us. Um and um we talked about IVF. So when Neil and I got married, and you you do the traditional thing, get married, and you have kids. That's what happens, and that didn't happen for us, and so um, and it was a really tough time. And and I said to Katie on the podcast last week, looking back, actually, I think we have both probably got a little PTSD from that because it was very it was a really traumatic time. Um, but we were dead lucky with RVF and we fell pregnant immediately. First try, first embryo, everything happened literally, like lined up perfectly, and we got fire. Um, so whilst it was such a tough time, I I feel like it shaped our family really, because we've always been really grateful. And then Lottie came along as a bit of a shocker because we'd come to the conclusion that was it, we would just have one child, and we were dead happy with that. And she was a complete surprise out of the blue, you know, that once in a million miracle, really. And so I've always called them both miracle children. Freya was a miracle scientifically, and Lotte was just a miracle because that wasn't expected, and I think that's created a real bedrock for our family. And I know for some families it actually probably splits people and it it probably creates more tension and trauma and and and hard stuff, but I think for us that's created a really strong family unit for us, and yeah, and we've never I've never hidden it from Freya. I've I've always told her from day one that about IVF and explained about IVF, and Lottie understands it as well. And and um and Freya's almost a bit proud of it. She was saying to me the other day how um she said, because I'm IVF, I'm like the best version of myself because they took the best sperm and the best egg and they put them together, and I'm like the best I can be. It's like yeah, that's how it works.

SPEAKER_02 53:20

What is it? They call it like the best thing, is it like the the um it's like an MVP, the most valuable player?

SPEAKER_05 53:29

That's what she was. She was the most valuable embryo.

SPEAKER_03 53:33

Yeah, she's the most the most it's really funny because I know you had Fria via is one thing I do know about you, but it's never anything I consider like anytime I see Fria, it's never anything I think, oh that it's just like it's just they're fabulous Freya, you know.

SPEAKER_05 53:52

You just yeah, but it's so normal now, I think, as well. I've I've certainly I mean, I had a really, really good boss when I went through IVF. Um I worked at the University of Salford and he was dead understanding. And I said, I'm literally going to be going for these appointments, I'm you know, I'm gonna be late some mornings, all this kind of thing, and he just let me crack on with it. Um, but it was quite unusual at the time, but I think now it's more common, or certainly more people talk about it openly than I think ever before. So um, so yeah, and I I like that because I think I like to think, well, I I've always talked about it openly, I've never hidden it, and I think that's quite nice that we've now got a world where people will talk about things and and I I absolutely agree, and I think there's that kind of phrase, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 54:35

You don't know what's going on in someone's life, so always be kind. And I certainly know when people maybe at work that and I get I totally understand that mindset and approach to it that we want to keep everything a secret until we've got some positive good news to share. But then it's sometimes I feel like it's quite hard for people to understand what's going on, otherwise you know what's yeah, it's difficult. And I do think the more open we are about things, the better, the better. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 55:11

I agree.

SPEAKER_03 55:12

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 55:12

Yeah, so uh last question, last difficult question. I hope you've thought about this one. I'm not gonna flummox you again.

SPEAKER_03 55:20

If you see, I don't know if there was anything that I needed to let yeah, yeah, I don't know. I I can't, I think my life's been fairly quite, but like I went to school, stayed at school.

SPEAKER_05 55:31

Yeah, well yeah, you've been you've been a student, an eternal student. Okay, so last question then, um, and you've got to answer it first because I've not thought about it either. But if you had one piece of advice for your younger self, what would it be?

SPEAKER_03 55:47

I have thought about this. Yay. I have thought about this. Let me just avert my eyes to the side to my notes, because there were three things I broke down. Um everything's temporary. Nothing that you know, everything's temporary. And I can't remember when we came on at the beginning, we were talking about something and it was relevant then. Um yeah, nothing lasts forever. Yeah, um the other thing which was a very good piece of advice, and you mentioned Lindsay before about the gym, and there was quite a challenge in time um in my career that was at a similar time to when I was uh pregnant and kind of post-pregnancy. Is that you can't change other people or you can't change situations, but you can change how you respond to it. Yeah, was something else that I think's very important to be aware of and to kind of have I think there's a lot more things on social media about what you can control and what you can't control now. And I think that's very important to be aware of. And yeah, well, the other one was kind of linked around the thing, are we behind, are we where we're supposed to be? And they just I think behind to who. Yeah, exactly. Behind compared to who. Yeah, you know, and we can have this kind of thing, like you say, we get married and we have kids and we do this, but the the I think you do what's right for yourself at the time. And I don't I don't know how much we questioned in our younger years, are we happy? Yeah. What would make us happy?

SPEAKER_05 57:33

No, I agree, and I think um I suppose that that linked quite nicely to to my advice, really, which would be and going back to your everything's temporary, I think it's really important to know that everything's temporary, positive and negative things. So negative things will end, it doesn't go on forever, but so do nice things. So enjoy the moment of them. Don't don't overthink the nice stuff that's happening to you and don't think beyond it, just enjoy it while it's happening to you. Because I do think, particularly in today's society, with with social media, we're always looking to the next thing and the next thing and the next thing, and and that links to the the final piece where you you ended as well. Is comparison is is that I'm sure there's some phrase about comparison, but it's the root of all evil, isn't it? It is it's a comparison is the thief of joy. That's it, yeah. It is. And you can't compare yourself with someone on social media who has spent two hours in hair and makeup, who has a professional person dressing them, who has thousands of pounds to spend on clothes. You can't compare yourself to someone who gives the appearance of a perfect life, who um, you know, has everything organized, who bloody social media is the crap out of everything because they get stuff sent to them free. Because you're you and you've made your decisions to get where you are, and and you know, you've got to you've got to live that life that you you've created for yourself and be proud of it because I think it's easy to compare yourself against other people, but it's absolutely and everybody's like uh everything's a work in progress, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 59:13

Yeah, and you've got to kind of enjoy the journey of getting there because when do you get there? Yeah, and I I don't even know where where there is. I would I've never been one of these people that's had a goal and I'm aspiring. Maybe that's an maybe that's something I could have planned, but obviously with our girls being the same age, and they're you'll have talked about this, I'm sure, about where they want to get to or what they want. I don't know what Freya's kind of ambition is, but it's like they want to kind of have a good job that pays money, I suppose, with the littlest amount of effort, because that's I suppose what we see in social media. Yeah. So sometimes I'll say to Lois, well, if you look at I I think I use Claudia Winkleman as an example the other week. She's, I think, a little bit older than us, not significantly older than us. Yeah. And she's probably at the minute, she may still have hired to go in her career, but she's certainly reached a pinnacle. And she's our age or a bit older. And all that graft and time and effort she will have have to put in to get her to the success where she is now. It doesn't happen overnight. But I think a lot of the younger generation, they're seeing this success, maybe like you say on social media or YouTube, they're a very, very minute population. Yeah. As is Claudia Winkleman. But she started working from a very young age to get there. But the other generation that they're seeing as being younger that are there now, I don't know how sustainable that is or realistic. So trying to kind of put things into perspective that you've yeah, smell the roses, enjoy the journey. Enjoy the life, enjoy, enjoy life. What other cliche can I come out with?

SPEAKER_05 1:01:06

Oh my god, I've got them all. I've got them all. Well, that was incredible. Thank you so much for joining me on our little extra podcast without um Katie Curry, who's what she's doing at the minute. She'll maybe be asleep. It's the night time. She'll be asleep, yeah. Yeah. So hopefully um I'll be chatting to Katie. Um, hopefully tonight, our time, tomorrow morning, her time, and I'll put that out as well next week on Crisis Talks. Um, but yeah, we'll uh we'll we'll put this episode out. And it's been wonderful. Thank you for inviting me, little Friday morning treat. I know, and I feel like I've learned so much. Wilson. I'd love it. Learn so much money in. I know, it's fat. Well, thank you very much again, Pat, and lovely to see you and um hopefully see you again on the podcast soon.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:59

Yeah, hopefully see you in real life soon. I know, yeah. Yeah. See you soon. Bye. See you, goodbye.