Crisis Talks: The Power of Paying It Forward

After discussing selfishness in the main episode, this week’s Crisis Talks flips the conversation around and asks:

Are people actually more kind and selfless than we realise?

From surrogacy and fundraising to helping strangers with prams, letting people out in traffic and supporting each other through menopause and illness, this episode explores the small everyday acts that quietly keep the world going.

We chat about:

• The incredible story of a woman becoming a surrogate for her brother
• Why kindness creates community
• The positive side of social media and online support groups
• Menopause communities and shared experiences
• The “Pay It Forward” concept
• Why helping others improves your own wellbeing
• The importance of connection in modern life
• Tiny acts of kindness that genuinely matter
• Why we need more empathy and less rushing
• Midlife friendships, walks and slowing down

There’s also discussion about camping vans, GCSE season, gardening, rave plans, Monty Don, The Devil Wears Prada and why Saturday morning podcasting might actually be the future.

A warm, funny and surprisingly uplifting conversation about kindness, connection and how to be a slightly better human.

Don't forget to subscribe and share with your friends.

Keep in touch, follow our socials or send an email to hellomidlife@icloud.com.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:23

Hello again.

SPEAKER_02 0:25

You're right.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

Yeah. Still looking lively? I know, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:29

Well, it's, you know, Saturday morning.

SPEAKER_01 0:32

Maybe we need to change our times. Yeah, maybe we do.

SPEAKER_02 0:35

Maybe this is the future.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

Maybe we're better in the morning. We're morning people. Get your work done in the morning, as Dave says. Yeah. Okay. There you go.

SPEAKER_02 0:45

But the problem with that is we are also people who like to go and do things at the weekend. I know. Yeah, we do. It's very rare.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

Oh no, I'm usually around. Well, no, not if I'm away in the van.

SPEAKER_02 0:56

Yeah, exactly. Well, we'll work out. I think we just take it week by week, don't we?

SPEAKER_01 1:01

Yeah, we're alright. We figure it out, don't we? Um. How to be selfless. Selfless acts. Selfless acts. I know a lot of people who've done some quite amazing selfless acts. Shall I tell the stories?

SPEAKER_02 1:18

Yeah, well, to explain to everyone who didn't listen to the main episode, go and listen to it and then come back to this one, by the way. But we talked about after we talked about a lot of shit, we talked about whether we've become a more selfish generation and some of the examples of that. So yeah, give us give the give us the counter-argument.

SPEAKER_01 1:39

Yeah, so I think like well, I'll give you an example of something that I was absolutely like loved. Um, so I've got a friend who was a surrogate for her brother and his wife. Wow. Yes. Exactly. Yeah. That is the ultimate selfless act. Isn't that the ultimate selfless act? Yeah. Yeah. And I quizzed her about it, and it was she's just so she was so lovely about it. Like, why would she she was like, Well, I don't understand why you wouldn't do that if somebody was sort of like struggling like that. I don't understand. Like she said it made perfect sense to me. Yeah. And had she had her own. Yeah, she had two, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

unknown 2:31

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 2:31

And I just thought, wow, see? Yeah, that is incredible. And people do do kind things like this. It's like fundraising, everybody always gets involved with stuff like that, you know.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

Like, yeah, I don't know. People still there is still like love in the world.

SPEAKER_02 2:47

There definitely is. And I mean, when you suggested we do this for crisis talks, I was trying to try and racking my brains, trying to think if I could think of any. Um, but I think the opposite of selfishness is community, isn't it? And I think we talked in the main episode about people just being too busy, and I think that's one of the problems with community is that you're almost too busy to commit time to a community. But then people find their little communities and tribes in different ways. So, like um, we have our Pilates group, and a lot of us in that group have been doing Pilates with Holly for over 10 years, and we've kept coming back, and we've experienced and and you only see each other once a week, sometimes twice a week for an hour. That's it. Yeah, but we have a little WhatsApp group, we don't have a lot of chat on there, but there is sometimes a bit of chat on there. But it's a community, and it's lovely. And now Holly's buggering off to Australia and leaving us. We're trying to work out how the hell are we gonna keep this going. Um, but but equally, I think that's where people find things now, isn't it? In activity-based communities.

SPEAKER_01 3:54

Yeah, yeah. Groups and of people, and people you like like Pilates, for instance, like you everyone like supports each other and bigs each other up, and when you're in something like that, like you haven't got someone turning around going, oh don't do that, you look like a load of shit. Like that's like everybody bigs each other up, don't they? Yeah and lifts each other up. And that I do find that like genuine, generally, most people do like look out for others. Like, there aren't a lot of people who are just inherently selfish. No, no, when you scratch the surface, most people prefer or like prefer to do things for other people. I do think people like it makes them feel better. Yeah, yeah. Doing something doing something for somebody else makes you feel better.

SPEAKER_02 4:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:45

Um, yeah, and I do that that's what I it's like. I mean you can see that all the all the fundraising that goes on, like online, like the GoFundMe pages that are set up, and yeah, everybody still gives money to others, and people, you know, if you hear someone's ill, you'll go around, you'll say do you need anything, make food for people. People still do it.

SPEAKER_02 5:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

But yeah, maybe I don't know, maybe we see more of the selfishness rather than the selflessness.

SPEAKER_02 5:16

I think the human brain always focuses on the negative, doesn't it? Um and that I I mean, you take social media. So we've given social media such a bashing, haven't we, on this podcast the the year or so that we've been doing it. And I think there are some really good examples of groups of on social media like Facebook, which have a massive positive effect. So um, and I I was talking to someone the other day at work whose wife is really struggling with the menopause, perimenopause, um, and I think she's had problems with the GP not helping her and she doesn't really know what to do next. And I said, when we like when we first started getting to that point where we thought we needed some help, um Jo Bishop, our friend, uh found all these groups on Facebook and she joined me into them all, and they've been a brilliant resource and a brilliant support as well. And I never post anything, really. I don't think I've ever posted anything on all of them, but there is lots of posts on there, and you can go and search. And if you've got a problem or you've got a question, you can generally find the answer on there, and if it's not there, you can ask a question, and people help you and offer advice, and it's a really positive um environment to be in because I think everyone's struggling with something like menopause or perimenopause, and the there isn't a lot of official help out there, and people have turned to each other, haven't they? And there's w women in there who've really informed themselves and done their research and understand the science, and they're not doctors, and that you you know, but they are but they go on and they help other women because they've they've done it themselves already, and I think that's such a positive social media aspect.

SPEAKER_01 6:58

I joined a group when I had the frozen shoulder, and it was absolute hell. And you just go in to see like a f uh physio who's do this, do that, do whatever, and then I thought, I'll just join this group, and it was brilliant because uh it was almost the loads of like weird little advice things that you would never ever get from a doctor, never get from a physio, but did help, but also bring in a bit of like lighthearted like comedy into it sometimes, which you need, don't you? Because like if you are like suffering with something, and that was awful, but there's loads of people who've got the same thing, and you everyone's like making a bit of a joke out of it, yeah. But it you're right, because you go onto Facebook and find something like that and use it for the right reasons, not the all the other crap, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:50

And that's where I mean, we've I've I think I've talked about some of the um location-based Facebook groups, and I think they can be a bit negative because you get to the point where you've got all sorts of folk in those. But like our estate has got its own little Facebook page, and that's really nice, and that is a proper like, I'm about to sell this bike on Facebook. Does anyone anyone want it before it goes on there? Yeah, I've got this furniture that I don't want anymore. If you can come and pick it up, have it for free. Yeah, and sharing, you know, I've had this painter and decorator in, they were brilliant. If anyone needs it, do in, I'd recommend them. All that sort of really positive stuff goes on on there, and I think that's nice as well.

SPEAKER_01 8:28

And there you go, there's your evidence that it is still exit in existence where we think it might have gone.

SPEAKER_02 8:34

Yeah. It is it is still there, isn't it? You just have to find the positives. I suppose that comes back to when we had pattern, isn't it? And you your brain so naturally focuses on negatives that you have to do something like, well, positivity tennis, which we did, but you have to look for the positives and you have to really hold on to them, don't you? Because otherwise it's a bit like watching the news all the time. You kind of get into the whirlpool of negativity and it pulls you down. So yeah, it does.

SPEAKER_01 9:00

It does. I'm just watching Dan now helping Dave. Oh the battery in the van. Is that there you go? Yeah, it's helping him. Yeah. Say, there you go.

SPEAKER_02 9:10

We could do with them up here, are they the um boot of our van's broken and Neil's tried everything, but it's beyond his artistic capabilities. So oh no. We need to call in the professionals. Dan and Dave. We need Dan and Dave. We need DC solutions. What would DC Solutions be?

SPEAKER_01 9:27

Oh, I don't know. What would Dan's Company be? Oh don't know. Um can't come up with that.

SPEAKER_02 9:36

The other thing I was thinking about with like trying to flip it to a positive. Do you remember? I think it was a film uh called Pay It Forward. No, do you not remember that? Do you know what that concept is? No. No. So I think the idea, and I've not I've not refreshed my memory on the film or anything, but I think the idea is um you do a good deed. So you do one good deed for that a person in a day, and you say to them, I've done this good deed for you, now you have to pay it forward. So then they have to go and do a good deed for someone, and so it like grows into this movement of paying positivity forwards. And I think that's a really nice idea. And and I, when I'm in the right frame of mind when I'm in the car, um I always try to employ a pay it forward concept in my brain. So, you know, like if someone is trying to turn right and no one's letting them, then I always do try and flash them, let them out, or um and all that kind of thing. And I always try and mentally send them that message, I've done this for you, now you have to pay it forward, and you have to do it for someone else. That's a good idea.

SPEAKER_01 10:43

Yeah. I think just be kind to most people. Yeah. Say most. Not Donald Trump, presumably. No, no, well, he's not kind to anybody else, he doesn't pay anything forward.

SPEAKER_02 10:56

I noticed we uh steered clear of election talk in our main episode. I don't think I I don't want to bring it up now, but Nigel Farage, we won't be kind to him, will we?

SPEAKER_01 11:08

I just find that I can't even talk about it.

SPEAKER_02 11:11

No, let's not. Um, so when we did our episode, I think I can't remember what it was off the back of, and we talked, we tried to do a full positivity tennis, and we pointed people in the direction of good things and on all that sort of thing. Um we should probably I'll dig that post out that went out on social media after that one and repost it because I think that was a nice, a nice thing. And I like people like Matt Haig. We've talked about him before. I was telling someone yesterday to go and have a look at his social media because he is he's got the right balance between honesty and positivity and trying to see the best in people. And and he had his it well, he's had his two books, How to Stay Alive, and I can't remember what the other one's called. Notes on a Nervous Planet. No, there's like um, it's like How to Stay Alive but slightly less in your face. Um I'll look it up and find it. Um, and that's a really nice book um about just remembering the positive things in your life and like list your ten favourite songs or your ten favourite films, and you know, it just helps your brain to stay positive, and I think that's that's the reverse of selfishness, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 12:22

Yeah, it is. Just doing just doing like kind things for people as well, even if it like say, even if it is just letting someone out, giving someone a smile, like helping someone like the other day, helping this poor girl with a baby and a pushchair and uh you know, all of that. And like you do people don't, and then you just do it and they look at you like, oh, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 12:48

I always if you see someone struggling with a push chair, getting upstairs or getting the train, I always offer to help. I do, always help. Just remember it being like hell on earth, especially if you've got a toddler as well and you try and oh it's awful.

SPEAKER_01 13:02

Give up your seat for an old lady, yeah, help an old lady over the road. Just do nice things. Yeah.

unknown 13:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:10

It's not gonna make you feel worse. No, it's definitely not. You're not gonna walk away and go, Oh, for fuck's sake, why did I help that old woman across the road? That's really annoyed me. Like you're not gonna do it, are you?

SPEAKER_02 13:20

Oh, it makes you feel good, doesn't it? And I think if you do anything that makes you feel good, then that can only be a positive thing. And I think, oh, what did I do? And it's really a small thing, but I suppose that's positivity tennis, is about the small things, isn't it? But um I I'd me and Neil share a watch charger, and obviously I'm using my watch again, so I'd got it in my bag and he wanted it. And rather than just give him the charger, I'd seen that he'd left his watch out on the bed, so I plugged it in and I put it all ready for him so it would be all nice and charge when he came to it. And I was really proud of my unselfish act.

SPEAKER_01 13:56

But it is though, just it is just something small, isn't it? But it is just doing something, yeah. I think, yeah, I don't know. I think everybody just gets bogged down with stuff. It's like I don't know, even like letting someone out or crossing across over the road. What like do people just think, oh, that's gonna take like 20 seconds out of my life? Just my life, my little thing is gonna be so worse. I know, yeah, I know, I know. And that's well, that we've already established that's what's wrong, isn't it? Okay.

SPEAKER_02 14:27

So let's commit to doing something, and it's not like you committing to being a hobby because I did draw a picture of a cow last night.

SPEAKER_01 14:35

Did you? Send it me. No. Why? Because it's just a little cow's head. That's all right then. And I don't even know why I drew it. Because you said that you'll start drawing as a hobby. I was sat just playing a bit of a daze, and I had a little pen and I just drew a cow's head.

SPEAKER_02 14:53

Oh, well there you go, see? Yeah, see that's the start. There's the start. There's the start of your drawing habits.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

I don't know why I did it. Yeah, weird. Why a cow's head? Out of all the things you could draw. Must have just been in your subconscious. Maybe. Maybe because I was like, No, I saw loads last weekend though. Okay, yeah. Well, there you go. That'll be it. That was it. Yeah. Just in your subconscious. Weird. Oh, Dave's going to see the blue tones tonight. Oh, busy. Yeah, I just remembered that, yeah. So Jimmy's yeah, got on the guest list, and this is a kind and selfless act. Okay. So Olivia obviously has come back and she's never seen them. I don't know why. But every time, I don't a bit it the every time they've been playing, she's not been able to see them. And I don't know why. I don't I anyway, she's never seen them. So I I said she could have my guest list. Oh, look at you. So she's going. Yeah. Nothing to do with the fact that I feel a bit shit or anything, you know, but no. Completely selfless act.

SPEAKER_02 16:02

It is a complete well, it is really, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 16:04

It is. Because you can't probably could have dragged yourself there if you wanted to. Yeah, I could have gone by it, yeah. Yeah, I thought she's I've seen him a million times, so she can go and see him. So yeah, Dave, Dave, Dan, and Olivia are going to watch the Bluetooth. Amazing. Ah, that'll be good. Yeah, it's like some like day festival thing with um Peter Hook and the lights and um the wonder stuff.

SPEAKER_02 16:26

And yeah, that's what we could do. Very good. Well, there you go. There's your selfless act for the weekend. So if we're gonna make some commitments, um, what are our commitments? I think the pay it forward thing is a good.

SPEAKER_01 16:39

I think we I like that, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:41

I think we should start that as a bit of a movement for the midlife no crisis community around us that everyone who listens or sees this on social media, because I suspect it will make it to a clip. Um, one pay it forward act from you today and see what happens.

SPEAKER_01 16:58

Just be kind to people and see what happens.

SPEAKER_02 17:00

Start a kindness movement.

SPEAKER_01 17:02

Yeah, just don't like before you start these but just think before you do something. Yeah. If you if you're gonna do something and you're thinking it's a bit like, oh, this is a bit selfish or horrible or like that, think about it. Yes. Oh, absolutely. Do I really need to do this? Can I be kinder?

SPEAKER_02 17:20

And then I think the other thing is to make contact with someone who you've had a text relationship with for far too long and actually have a conversation with them and reach out to them. Bring them up, you can see a walk, yeah. Coffee. Yeah, or just have a chat. Or just have a chat. It's great, isn't it? It's there's you know, just go for a walk yourself and chat on the phone for half an hour, it's nothing really.

SPEAKER_01 17:47

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:49

Might make someone's day better.

SPEAKER_01 17:51

It is a funny thing, isn't it, with ringing people. I don't know why we've got into that how we don't want to ring people anymore. Like why don't we? Again, you it it's the business, it's the busyness. So even if you are on your own, like it's like you've just said, like it's easy to ring someone. Yeah, you sometimes you just want some peace, don't you? Yeah, you just want to sit. You don't want to be able to do that. You want to switch your brain off, yeah. Yeah. And that and I think that is quite common these days. You've been at it all day at work, kids. You we sit down and the last thing you want to do is talk to another person.

SPEAKER_02 18:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:24

It's stripping that away, isn't it, really?

SPEAKER_02 18:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:27

Because actually, if you do make the effort and ring that person, you'll probably find after that half an hour you feel loads better.

SPEAKER_02 18:32

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So that's the plan then today, and we'll check up on it as well next week. Um, paying it forward, being kind, and connecting with someone you haven't spoken to for a while.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

Maybe we should talk about it each week, what we've done, what we think's nice and kind that week. We'll do that.

SPEAKER_02 18:52

Okay, we'll start a new uh segment. Oh no, another segment. We haven't got any segments. All segments are a general catch-up, which normally takes too long and it means we don't have time to talk about our topic. No. Our topic. Oh and then Grace's talks. Oh, that's all right. That's enough segments. That's good, yeah. That'll do. And a kind of segment. So, what's your plan this weekend then? What are you up to?

SPEAKER_01 19:17

Nothing. I'm going to meet with a friend this afternoon for a walk. I'm not going out, obviously, because they'll give him my given my ticket selflessly to my daughter. Uh, so I'm gonna chill out and I might just watch a film or something tonight. I'm just gonna chill. Yeah, and I'm going out for another walk. This is this is my social life now, just going for walks. Um, yeah, tomorrow morning with some more friends, and that's it. Oh, and then um oh, and then we're lending our uh Roland van to our friends who are going away at the bank holiday weekend because they're going to festivals like you can't go to a festival and stay in a tent when you're this age. So have the van. So they're going in the van, so they're coming tomorrow to have a run through. A Roland rundown, it's called Yeah. That's a self-asset. Oh, I'm full of it today. Look at you.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

Oh my god, you this you you're banking them up for weeks now. You don't have to do anything for a bit.

SPEAKER_01 20:13

Uh yeah, so that's what we're doing. This that's what I'm doing this weekend. Not a lot, I'm chilling out. I'm just looking after myself this weekend. I want to be alright, yeah. Yeah, get yourself well. I am going day raving next Saturday though. Oh, are you? Oh, that's exciting. It's so good as well, the lineup. Is it? It's soul to soul, David Morales, Alison Limerick, um who else is it? Someone else who's really good, I can't remember. Masters at work. Oh my god. Oh, yes. I know. All day. So I'm going out for lunch with my friend and then we're going dancing.

SPEAKER_02 20:51

Nice. Oh. We've got some good plans, stuff to look forward to, stuff to get well for. Yeah, that's what I thought. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:59

There you go. What are you doing? What are you doing?

SPEAKER_02 21:00

What were you doing? Um, we've got a quiet weekend. I mean, I kept May relatively quiet for GCSE, like not stressing everyone out too much. Um, so I'm gonna I've got to do a bit of my college course today. So I've got a big pile of books that you can see here that I've bought and not read. Um, and then me and Lottie are going to watch The Devil Wears Prada.

SPEAKER_01 21:23

Oh, I want to go and watch that. Well, if you lived closer, we could have we could have gone together. Oh, I'm definitely gonna go and watch it. Maybe I'll go and watch it tomorrow.

SPEAKER_02 21:32

So I'm excited for that. I'm going for a walk with my friends tomorrow. And uh Lottie's in a rehearsal all day, so probably do a bit of gardening, I think. I think the weather's gonna be alright tomorrow. Um check us out. No, Ravens. Did you say I watched Gardener's World last night? No, I was very proud of you. Oh, I'm so happy. I don't like it. See, this weekend is a show weekend, isn't it? I don't like the show weekend ones because I like the ones with Monty in his garden. I do.

SPEAKER_00 21:59

Hmm.

SPEAKER_02 22:00

It's like calming, innit? Yeah, it's so calming. I watched last week's this morning when I woke up early because I hadn't had a drink, so I was like jumping for joy. Um, and it was just so I just I love it so much. I just love it. So relaxed watching it.

SPEAKER_01 22:14

Oh, I was having a cup of tea. I was just curled up.

SPEAKER_02 22:18

Yeah. Rock and roll. Rock and roll. Right. I think we've done enough. Oh, I feel great now. I know. Super positive. I'm ready to go and pay it forward.

SPEAKER_01 22:31

Yeah, let's go and pay it forward. Cool. All right, my love. Nice to see you. Have a good weekend. To see you nice. Oh no. I don't why you said that. Right, okay. Love you all. All right. Love you. Bye bye. Bye bye bye.