Midlife: Self-Care or Selfishness?

In this episode, we ask a big question: have we become a selfish society?

What starts as a catch-up about sensible nights out, camping trips, work events and intermittent fasting quickly turns into a deeper conversation about burnout, modern life, social media, self-care culture and why everyone feels permanently exhausted.

We chat about:

• Why people seem more self-absorbed after COVID
• The difference between self-care and selfishness
• Social media’s obsession with “perfect lives”
• Why nobody gets a medal for burnout
• Office pranks, hot desking and stolen Mars bars
• Work culture in your 50s
• Road rage and why driving changes human behaviour
• GCSE stress and whether exams actually prepare kids for life
• Camping with teenagers
• The Fast 800 diet, step counting and the tragedy of giving up Vimto

There’s also discussion about kindness, empathy and why maybe the answer to modern life is simply giving people a bit more grace.

A funny, honest and very relatable conversation about friendship, midlife and trying not to lose your mind in 2026.

Don't forget to subscribe and share with your friends.

Keep in touch, follow our socials or send an email to hellomidlife@icloud.com.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:23

Morning, you're right. Morning, evening, afternoon.

SPEAKER_02 0:26

This is weird doing it at ten o'clock on a Saturday morning. I got tired. I feel quite fresh, yeah. Oh, there you go. You look fresh, you look nice today. Well, I've had a shower. Oh, well done.

unknown 0:40

Well done.

SPEAKER_02 0:41

And I don't wear over. No hangover. Oh my god, do you feel amazing? I do, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:47

Do you feel smug? I think this might be the future, but um I'm going gently into that. But we'll talk about that in a minute.

SPEAKER_02 0:54

Oh, right, okay.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

What are you wearing?

SPEAKER_02 0:57

I'm wearing the same jumper that I've worn since uh I went to Byron Bay in Australia. I have washed it since, but uh I haven't worn any other jumpers.

SPEAKER_00 1:07

Oh love it. Is this what the kids bought you for Mother's Day? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:12

Oh, it's so comfy. So comfy. But I do I keep I'm aware that every time I see anybody I'm wearing this jumper and they must think, hmm, she could do wearing another item.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

Well, I can't see your jumper because it's like because you like that on the screen, so you're fine. Oh, there you go.

SPEAKER_02 1:31

Is that better?

SPEAKER_00 1:31

Yeah, that's better.

SPEAKER_02 1:33

See more of me.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

Has it got like world's best mum on it or something?

SPEAKER_02 1:37

It definitely hasn't. I think it's got it's got something about the ocean on it. There you go. You know, those kind of vibes. Very nice.

SPEAKER_01 1:47

Um, yeah, so what was last night like? It was really good actually. Yeah, we had it.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

It was a nice, it was a nice um just a catch up, really. It was had a nice meal and had a really good chat, and then Emma was getting the train at 10, and so I just dropped her at the train station, and it was all very sensible. I know.

SPEAKER_02 2:08

We're actually grown-ups when we got to 50 we were grown-ups.

SPEAKER_00 2:12

I know, it's madness, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 2:13

Go out for a meal, catch up and go home, yes, not end up in a pub in God knows where singing karaoke.

SPEAKER_00 2:20

West Orton dancing with a little uploaded chaffs.

SPEAKER_02 2:24

Yeah. I do love those stories.

SPEAKER_00 2:28

I know, and that is fun, but it it's like the right thing for the right time, isn't it? And we just yeah, it was just nice to do. And look at you now this morning, say, fresh faced, and I mean, obviously I I've had some work done via Zoom, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:43

I don't think I've got a filter on Zoom, have I?

SPEAKER_00 2:47

I think we put a we put a slight one on. I think my camera filters me anyway. I don't know. It's weird.

SPEAKER_02 2:53

Oh no, can you put it on like make me look 30 filter? Like all the time.

SPEAKER_00 2:58

You have to do that for yourself.

SPEAKER_02 3:01

Oh, I don't give a shit anymore.

SPEAKER_00 3:05

We'll have a little play. Um so how are you anyway? What have you been up to?

SPEAKER_02 3:09

Oh, I've been ill this week.

SPEAKER_00 3:10

Oh no, not again.

SPEAKER_02 3:12

Oh yeah, again. This is like an off podcast conversation, probably. Yeah, same illness, same stomach problem. Yeah. Oh no. Been bad this week, yeah. So I went away last weekend and lovely, went walking, like it was really nice. Went to Devon, Woollook Woolakum. Niceum or Woolacum? Woolakum, Woolakum.

SPEAKER_00 3:34

I think I say Woolakum, but I'm not sure that's right. I don't know whether it's right.

SPEAKER_02 3:38

I think it's Woolla coom. It doesn't really matter anyway. Um, yeah, so it was lovely, we had a nice time, and then got back fine on the Monday, got back Monday, Tuesday. Oh, it was awful. And then all being sick, just no other. But it's just wiped me out, and I've not wanted to eat any food. I've barely eaten all week. You know, you just like eat toast and you're like, Yeah, I don't want to eat anything. But yeah, anyway, it's all in hand with the doctor. Good. I was gonna say all right, yeah.

unknown 4:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:13

Well, I don't know whether it is all right, but it's in hand. Right. But I did rest this week.

SPEAKER_00 4:19

Well, that's good. Did you work? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:21

I did work, but I just worked at home. I went in one, I went, I had to go in on Tuesday, and then I was like, I'm not coming in for the rest of the week. And I was actually quite quite firm about it. You know, like sometimes you feel guilty, like, oh, you feel like you could get taught round. And yeah, no, I said absolutely not, I'm not coming in.

SPEAKER_03 4:40

That's good.

SPEAKER_02 4:41

I don't feel well, I'm willing to work, I'm staying at home.

SPEAKER_00 4:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:45

And no one argued.

SPEAKER_00 4:48

I I can imagine if you did it in that tone. Yeah. I will be working, but it did do me good.

SPEAKER_02 4:55

It did do it. Well, it didn't do me good. I I had to do it, like being selfish, which is a segue to the topic today for the crisis. I wasn't being selfish.

SPEAKER_00 5:08

No, I don't think it's selfish. I think it's really hard, isn't it? And it's sad that you have to get to the age of 50 to feel like if you're not well, you don't work. But we've got this kind of approach to life that you'll struggle on, soldier on through, go to work regardless of how ill you are, and show everyone how strong a macho. I don't know if it's a macho thing you are. Probably is in your industry. Yeah, no, it is definitely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:35

No one's given you a medal, are they? I think you get to our age and you realise no one's given you a medal for this. No.

SPEAKER_00 5:41

No, you've got to and and isn't that thing? We've had that conversation so many times, haven't we, about people on their deathbeds never say they wish they'd spent more time at work.

SPEAKER_02 5:51

No, it's very true though, and I actually don't care now. And I just thought, not bothered.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

It should be a means to an end.

SPEAKER_02 5:58

Yeah, and I was like, I was meant to go to London on Thursday. No. Oh, you're not coming. No, I'm not coming. And that was the end, yeah. End of the conversation.

SPEAKER_00 6:11

Oh, well, good for you. I think that's healthy. Good.

SPEAKER_02 6:15

Healthy, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:17

Are you feeling any better now or still a thing?

SPEAKER_02 6:19

I do feel better. No, I think yeah, I'm alright. I am alright. Yeah, I do feel a lot better today. Yeah. It's just, I don't know what's who knows? I don't know. I'll find out what's wrong with it.

SPEAKER_00 6:28

But yeah, you need to get it sorted.

SPEAKER_02 6:30

Something's up, but I'll find out. Um, yeah. But apart from that, so I've not really done anything. How were you weekend away though? Were you in the van? Oh me yeah, we're in the van. Oh, it's really nice. Yeah. Other people were there. Oh, that's right. Dan was there. Dan's actually just turned up at our house, actually. I can see him out of the window. Yeah. Dad Turk. Well, well, so my god, I'm gonna have to explain this now. I know because you're not being inappropriate. He isn't. No, I'm not, I'm not being inappropriate because he's Polish. No. So for the listeners who might not know what I'm talking about, Dan is our friend who is of Polish descent, and our other friend, Shirley, thought he was Turkish and started to say Dan the Turk. You know Dan, Dan the Turk. And we were like, Oh, you mean Polish, Dan? Because people call him Polish. Which their name is Gametric. Which is very Polish. Very Polish. Yes, very Polish Gametric. Yeah. I can even spell it as well. I know him. We have known him for a long time. Yeah, yeah. Um, anyway, he's just turned up at my house. Oh. There you go.

SPEAKER_00 7:49

Well, hi to Dan. Hi to Dan who doesn't hi to Dan who doesn't listen.

SPEAKER_02 7:57

He's never listened. No. I'm sure you had lots of conversations last night about our podcast and how amazing we are with our with our very close friends.

SPEAKER_00 8:06

Our very close friends who all listen intently. Well, to be fair, two of them do definitely, which is Nicola and Ajuan. Um, because Nick we were talking about Dubai and Nick said something about South Africa. She went, see, I do listen.

SPEAKER_01 8:18

I was like, We know you.

SPEAKER_00 8:19

Oh, did she? And um and Joanna. What was the thoughts on that? Huh? What was the thoughts? No, we're still on Dubai at the moment. Right, we are on Dubai, yeah. Joanna's convinced it's gonna be fine, so yeah, right, that's fine. I'm sure. Um, but yeah, and did I didn't tell you I got a telling off from our Joanne about the other week when I um posted when we did the Olivia special episode, and I posted um a repeat of our original room 101 for the crisis talks, just because we didn't have a crisis talks, and I thought as we were doing our 50th episode special, it might be quite nice to revisit the first one we ever did. So I reposted it, Joanne messaged me to say, uh, I'm I'm I'm confused. Why am I listening to an old podcast? I've listened to this one. Oh no, I feel cheated.

SPEAKER_02 9:10

Oh dear, oh dear. Right, we need to take that feedback on board.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

Well, I did say it did explain it in the show notes that this was a repeat and everything's I don't have time to read those. So it's got point. Yeah, I have to I'll have to have a rethink if I ever do that again about how I repeats people understand that it is a repeated episode.

SPEAKER_02 9:33

Yeah. Well, that's quite good though. It seems people are taking notice.

SPEAKER_00 9:38

I know, yeah, I know. Well, I mentioned Alyssa in our last week's episode. Um, so she's listened, so she messaged me on or messaged our page on Instagram last night to say she loved the mention and don't ever mess with her desk.

SPEAKER_02 9:52

Oh yeah. Well, I definitely won't. No, no. No, I understand, I understand fully. Yep. Keep your pictures on there, get a little bin under there, get your own little fan, heater, get it all there.

SPEAKER_00 10:07

She has got a fan, but I it reminded me actually where it all stemmed from. So when we first went like hot desk in and clear desk policy and all that kind of thing, the cleaners that used to come in at night had been instructed that if there was anything on the desk, they had to put it on the chair so it couldn't be seen. Yeah and we used to come in in the morning and literally everything like your mouse and your keyboard, like everything would be put on your chair. And it used to drive Alyssa up the wall. I think it was Alyssa we did this too. She'll remind me next week if she listens to this. Um, and we went through a little phase of winding her up. If you were in before her, you'd literally take things from everywhere and just put them on a chair when she came in. She had to like get rid of them all. And um, Pete, one of our one of our other team, was like a chief instigator of the wind up. So we did a revenge thing at Christmas that year where we all we'd all the directors had gone out for like a Christmas breakfast, and while we were out, the team wrapped Pete's desk in wrapping paper. So when he came in, he was like, the fuck? Like everything we'd wrapped and well, I hadn't because I was out for breakfast, but wrapped individual items and everything. It was brilliant. Oh right. It's a stapler wrapped up. Fun office pranks. Do you remember? Do you remember staplers? I know. We still have staplers because we are a people-loving industry in construction, but everyone is a dinosaur.

SPEAKER_02 11:34

Oh, a stapler and a hole punch. Do you remember that as well? Oh yep. We've got them all. I haven't seen a stapler for a long time. It's just reminded me of that um episode of The Office where he puts his stapler and jelly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:51

Brilliant. So if anyone listening's ever done a fun office prank, let us know because I wouldn't be so. I don't think your organization is known for itself. No way.

SPEAKER_02 12:03

No way. There was a um somebody who used to steal items out of the fridge. So someone used to, like, then it was one particular person who always used to eat like Mars bars and whatever chocolate bars used to be in the fridge, and they just used to eat it and put the wrapper back.

SPEAKER_00 12:21

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 12:22

And that we never found out who it was. Same all all the time. He used to go into the fridge and go, Who is doing this to me? Who keeps eating it? No one ever owned up. And I just and then because he because this person kept doing it, it just became funny.

SPEAKER_00 12:38

It's like that um Yorkshire Advert with Sarah Lancashire. I love that advert. I mean, I love all the Yorkshire adverts are class. Yeah. But yeah, that's quite a good one.

SPEAKER_02 12:47

Yeah. Oh dear. So yeah. Very good. What else have you been up to? Um, so we went.

SPEAKER_00 12:53

Oh, how was your camping? Yeah. Yeah, we went camping. So um we went up to Silverdale, in which is kind of North Lancashire. Um, and we had a beautiful, it's a really nice site, actually. I'd fully recommend it. It's called Gibraltar Farm campsite, I think. And it literally is just on the hill overlooking Morecambe Bay. So beautiful view, like really like idyllic sort of campsite. Yeah, yeah. And so we went up, so Neil couldn't come on the first night because he'd he'd arranged to go to the football with his mates. So I took Freya, Lottie, and Harley with me to this campsite, and we had to like get everything set up. And normally, obviously, I've got Neil, and you know how big our awning is. You've seen it in the awning, haven't you? Yeah, so it was very hot and it was very stressful. And the kids were actually really good, but what I've realized with teenagers is they're useful, but they they're not very independent thinkers. So it was literally I had to literally direct everything they did. Yeah, like it would be a case of get that peg. Yeah, now put it in the ground, now hammer it in. Hammer it in, literally. And they wander off, don't they, teenagers?

SPEAKER_02 14:03

Just go into the room. Yeah, they'll be like mid-task, and then you look up and you're like, Where have they gone? And they wandered off and they're on the phone, like a few steps away, aren't they? And you're like, No, back to the task.

SPEAKER_00 14:18

But they were so good, and we had a really nice time, just the four of us. Like, we did a bit of a barbecue, um, they were all really helpful. We all washed up together that night, and then I did cooked breakfast in the morning, and then they all went off and washed up, just the three of them on their own at the end. Yeah, it was nice. Oh, there you go. Yeah, and we got a bit wet on the uh that Saturday mor Sunday morning. But other than that, we had really good weather. We took them on a massive walk. Good, yeah. Um, and yes. Was Charlie alright? Absolutely fine, yeah. Yeah, he just fits in. He I think he just likes being with us, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:51

Oh, nice. Yeah, it's good.

SPEAKER_00 14:54

Oh, it's all good. Success, yes, but we're all we're all ready now for GCSE, well, kind of first proper GCSE on Monday, English literature. So it's a biggie, innit? English line. Yeah, I think it's a biggie, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:11

What does she what's she reading? What Shakespeare is it? I mean, why do we still do all this? I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 15:16

I don't know. I don't know. Uh a bit weird. I think she did a nice and men. I can't remember what book she did now. She's done a few, they do a different one each year, don't they? And then I can't remember what her actual GCSE text is. Um, but she feels quite I think she feels quite comfortable for it, so that's good. Um so yeah, you I mean it's we watched actually Katie Woods, my hairdresser, I was at the hairdresser this week, and she showed me a thing on TikTok, which was a youth MP from Wigan and Lee talking in Parliament about the ridiculousness of exams these days. Yeah. Making a point that you they're basically a memory test. You're tested on something you might never ever think or do again. And it's not preparing kids. And we've talked about this, haven't we? Yeah, we have.

SPEAKER_02 16:03

We think it's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

Yeah. It's it's really prepare them for life.

SPEAKER_02 16:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

Yeah. Don't get that's a different topic. No, well, it's probably it probably is a topic in itself, isn't it? So yeah, we were camping was good. Um I've had a few work do's the last few weeks with some but all of them have been different, it differently fun. I love your really, really enthusiastic texts about them. Well, the last one I went to, which was last Thursday, oh my god, I it it just epitomised everything that I dislike about our industry at times. And it's like it's an industry awards, and there's this guy that runs it in the Midlands, and he's made it a family business, so he's brought both his sons into this this kind of thing that it is, and he's obviously got a bit of an ego, so he's like all at the front with a jazzy jacket on, and like he made up a song to a musical and about Christmas.

SPEAKER_02 17:01

No, no, no, absolutely not, no.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

And then one of his sons is like a crooner type Michael Bouble singer, so he's he did a like a turn. Oh god, that's awful! And he walked round, Katie. No word of a lie, walked round the tables, and if there was a pretty lady on the table, he put his arm around her and sang to her. And someone had told me about this before, and I was like, that that can't be true because we're like in 2025, and people don't do things like that anymore, do they? Yes, they do.

SPEAKER_02 17:31

Oh no, and what does the pretty lady do? Uh well, it depends who in the face.

SPEAKER_00 17:37

I think the younger girls were a bit mortified and were just kind of like that. I think some of the older women were a bit sort of piss off, mate. Like every time he approached our table, I was gave such digital vibes that I don't think he actually I would have done, I would have done the actual giving him the finger.

SPEAKER_02 17:55

If you come near me, you're gonna be in trouble, mate.

unknown 17:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:00

But it was good. I mean, it was fun with our table, but uh, and then the guy that hosts the actual awards is another son. Um, and normally what you do with these awards is you have someone mildly famous at the front, so you know, like a local news person or whatever. Um, so his he's the famous one because he's been on like I don't know, West Midland's breakfast radio or something like that. It was just awful, it was just awful. Um, but like funny because it was so awful. So oh, I can't, I don't know, do it.

SPEAKER_02 18:32

I couldn't know, I can't do that.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

Well, I came to the conclusion after that. I I don't think this that's for me anymore. I think I've done my stint with these dudes. I would send someone else.

SPEAKER_02 18:43

Off you go, this is really good fun. Oh god. You shouldn't have to do stuff like that when you're 50. What's going on? I know, I know 50.

SPEAKER_00 18:53

Oh, stop saying that.

SPEAKER_02 18:54

God, oh we're 50. I mean, we're not getting away from that, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 18:57

I know. Um so and then the other thing I was going to tell you is um I have got my watch back on. Oh, I know, but sensibly. So I've started doing God. What is this? That's where my ADHD kicks in. No, I know, I can see it coming. Um, so I started doing we've me and Neil decided at the weekend that we need to do something in terms of sorting our food out. And the only thing that's ever worked for me in the past is intermittent fasting. So um rather than just go on to intermittent fasting like I've done, we've put a little structure around it. So Michael Mosley, you know, the five, two day, all that kind of thing. He did die though. I know he died, but he didn't die of dieting. Oh don't know that.

unknown 19:49

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

He did die though. Anyway, so I'm doing this this fast 800, it's called, and we you it puts you on like the diet, you do this big test thing, and it puts you on the diet it thinks most suits you. And it initially put us on the very fast 800, which is 800 calories a day for up to 12 weeks. I did two days. 12 weeks. I said to Neil, I can't do this. This is too hard.

SPEAKER_02 20:16

That's not healthy though, surely. Would you not be ill?

SPEAKER_00 20:19

I couldn't do that. Well, I couldn't do that anyway, but medically backed and stuff. But so we we moved back onto the 5-2 diet, which is a bit more sensible. So um you do it five two days, two days on eight hundred calories, and the rest is like fifteen hundred calories. So we're gonna see how it goes. But I wanted to get my steps up, and the only thing that really drives me with steps is knowing how many steps I've done, and my phone's crap with that. So I've put the watch on, but I've turned everything else off. The only thing it does is tell me the time and count my steps. Right, well, that's all right, yeah. I've got that on there. Yeah, and I think because I've had a break from it, I'm not obsessed with it. So it is just for watch purposes and steps.

SPEAKER_02 21:02

So well, let me know how you get on. We'll see how it goes. We'll have a debrief on the 800 calorie thing. To be fair, I've had less than 800 calories all week.

SPEAKER_00 21:12

So well, yeah. But you definitely need to eat.

SPEAKER_02 21:18

Well, I do, yeah, yeah.

unknown 21:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:20

Well, we all need to eat. We all need to eat. But you do I would die, I know what you mean. Yeah. Vinter.

SPEAKER_00 21:29

Yeah, you see, water. That is the worst bit actually, is that you're really only supposed to drink herbal teas and water. I did have a gin and tonic last night, but it's uh You can have vinto. What's wrong with vinta? Well, it's all to do with blood sugar. So it's all to do with keeping your blood sugar low.

SPEAKER_02 21:46

So it's Well, I drink it, it doesn't have any effect. Let me tell you now, Vinto has no effect on your blood sugar. I can tell you that, I can show you a picture of my blood sugar before and after I've drunk it.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

Okay, I'll bring Vimto back then. Yeah, I that's that's utter rubbish. I've been drinking all week um fizzy water with lemon and lime slices in it. Oh god, no. Give yourself some joy in life. Oh, I am doing, I am having joy as well. The joy is in seeing the fact that I feel a lot better. Tell you what though, I have slept brilliantly this week. Oh, have you?

SPEAKER_02 22:26

Yeah, maybe it's working then. Oh, there you go. So I couldn't do it. I don't I don't I know. No. Couldn't do it. It's not for everybody. I can't not drink Vimto. I have to go and bloody go to work to do like that and listen to Balance singing songs.

SPEAKER_00 22:46

I love that the not drinking vimto bit is the worst bit for you. It's not the 800 calories in a day. No, how can you not drink Vimto?

SPEAKER_02 22:56

That's exactly yeah, that's a problem for me. Oh dear me.

SPEAKER_00 23:02

No. Anyway. Anyway, we'll get back to that. We'll get back to that. I'll I'll give everyone an update. We should get on to our topic, really, shouldn't we? Before we should. I was just gonna mention.

SPEAKER_02 23:12

Have you watched Race Across the World? Yeah, I've not watched this week's.

SPEAKER_03 23:16

Have I?

SPEAKER_02 23:16

I haven't watched it. No, I haven't watched this week's. No, I haven't watched this week's. No, I haven't. Yeah. Is that the last one? No, it's the is it the second to last one? I can't remember. Oh, it's good now. It's so good. So Olivia's decided she's going to Kazakhstan, obviously. She's going to Kazakhs. Yeah, good. Yeah. Yeah. I'd like to go. It's on my list. If you want to go with her, you can go with her. Yeah, we'll do. I don't know where she's going. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:39

That's the latest plan today. If she just wouldn't want to eat horse, that would be my problem with it. Oh, I think they have other stuff to eat. I don't think you just go eat horses.

SPEAKER_02 23:51

Well, you're alright, you're on 800 calories.

SPEAKER_00 23:54

Yeah, that's true. I I would just eat a like a hoof or something, wouldn't I? I um I really want to go. I'm gonna have to look up the name. I had to write it down because it's something that I definitely want to do. I want to go to that place that they went to in Turkey with all the Cappadocia. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:09

Cappadocia.

SPEAKER_00 24:09

Yeah. Cappadocia, yeah. Yeah, that's definitely a place I want to.

SPEAKER_02 24:14

You should have done that for the 50th.

SPEAKER_00 24:16

Ah, yeah. I can't see that being a Joanna type place to go. Do you not like her? She'd like a balloon, don't you? You could put it on loads.

SPEAKER_01 24:27

You sleep in a cave, she's not gonna do that, is she? Can you imagine? Well, no, she wouldn't, you're right.

SPEAKER_02 24:34

They could they could just take her up though for like the whole day. We could have some peace and quiet. Well, you probably still hear her.

SPEAKER_00 24:40

The problem is the whole of Turkey would hear her. The whole of Turkey would hear her.

SPEAKER_02 24:49

Oh poor Joanna, would you give us some grief? Good job.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

She's got a listen to it. I know. We can do, we can get away with it. No one will tell her. Um, right, shall we move on to the topic then? We're talking of we are rambling and we've got like not a long time to talk about. We're quite a good topic as well, really. Because everything that we get frustrated with, I think stems from people being selfish. Yes. So my question is, are we the selfish generation? Discuss.

SPEAKER_02 25:36

Do you mean us as in our generation? Us as in 50-year-olds, or do you just mean us generally as people?

SPEAKER_00 25:46

Well, I think as people, I think we're morphing into more selfish society, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:54

Um are we selfish? I I think people are a lot more self-absorbed. Whether that is this is that the same as being selfish, I'm not really sure.

SPEAKER_00 26:06

Like I think, well, selfishness is a behaviour, isn't it? So I think if you are focusing on yourself, then your behaviours will be more selfish, won't they?

SPEAKER_02 26:16

But being selfish is completely disregarding other people, isn't it? Yeah. Being selfish is not taking into account anybody else's feelings, thoughts, whatever anybody else is doing, isn't it? Yeah. I would consider to be selfish.

SPEAKER_03 26:29

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:30

Um and that is I yeah, I do think people are, yeah, if I'm honest. Um, I think everyone's hell bent on just creating this like life for themselves, and like again, the social media probably is partially to blame for that. I do also think um COVID had a lot to do with it. I think everybody since COVID, and I might be wrong because I don't even know what the stats or anything on it are, but if it feels to me like since COVID, everybody is a lot more self-absorbed in their own life and isn't really reach out the same. Doesn't really, I wouldn't say they don't really care about others, but I think everybody's just like going along in their own lives. I don't know whether people like genuinely are just struggling to keep all this shit together, so that's all the that they've only got that capacity.

SPEAKER_00 27:30

I think um there's a few points there, and I think you're right. I think COVID definitely changed us, but it's really interesting, isn't it? Because during COVID we did become more community-centred. I mean, our little strip of houses along here, we did everything together because that's all we had. Yeah, and yeah, you know, we did loads of socialising and you know, helping each other out if anyone needed anything and all that sort of thing, and that's gone now. We very rarely see each other, but I think but I think that then leads to the next point, which is everyone is so busy. Like we've created all this world now where you've got connectivity, you know, you can speak to someone on the other side of the world whenever you want to, it doesn't matter. You've got you can contact anyone you want to contact, whatever time you want to contact, you can social media the shit out of anything you want to, but we don't seem to have any time to do anything. And I think maybe it's our age and kind of starting to notice these things a little bit more. And I think when you're in it, when you've got young kids and stuff, you're just in it, you can you almost can't see past it. And I see that with all the team at work, you know, they're so busy, and everything is so regimented, and it's like this at this time, this at this time, this at the time, not getting home till half nine, not having any tea, all this sort of thing. And I just think we don't have time to see the wood for the trees, do we? So you don't have time to be community-minded or to think about other people.

SPEAKER_02 28:59

You haven't got that capacity. How have you got that capacity? If you're not getting home until nine o'clock at night, are you then gonna start phoning around to check if everybody's alright and dropping off things for people? Or yeah, which is which is kind of what people did in COVID, wasn't it? Like people had time. Oh, I'll go and drop them some like a cake round or you know, yeah, yeah. Or have time to make a cake. I mean, Jesus, yeah. But but then why did that not continue? Like, is it just that we we become like that and we become more community focused and we look out for people in a crisis? Or was it just purely the time? It probably was the time, it's just having time. Yeah, everybody just goes back. Oh, you've got a crammy a day full of stuff, and your kids have got to be doing 500 clubs a week, and otherwise we're all gonna be like pathetic humans, and you know, yeah. Actually, strip it all back to nothing, which is essentially like you can't leave your house, you haven't like everybody everyone's first thing, I think, as humans is to reach out to other humans. Yeah, that's your first fundamental thought, isn't it? I I think because everybody needs other humans as some sort of support.

SPEAKER_00 30:15

I don't know. It's but we've put I think we've put technology in the way of doing that though, haven't we? Because yeah, because the only way really people know how to reach out anymore, and it's even I mean it's definitely in the younger generations, but I think it it's it's our generation to an extent as well, is through technology. You need you you said that made the point when we talked about um our friendship was we stopped ringing each other as much when you started to be able to message instead, because it's quicker and easier to send someone a quick message to check in and are you okay? La la la, yeah, all good, brilliant, fine. Tick, I've spoken to that person, but you've not really, have you? Because how many times have you said, yeah, fine, when someone's asked if you're okay on a message, when actually you've not been fine and you could have done all of those things.

SPEAKER_02 31:05

But is that selfish? Are you being selfish then?

SPEAKER_00 31:08

That you are you but but you you behave yourself. This is the point, isn't it? It's you're not being selfish, your behaviour is selfish because you're thinking that you've reached out to someone, but you've done it under your terms by sending them a message because you haven't got time to do anything else. So for you, you think I've done what I needed to do for that friend, but you've not really asked that friend what they need, or is you know, do you need a chat? Or I don't know, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 31:36

It it I suppose it's yeah, it's I think anybody everybody see these days seems to be quite energy depleted. Yeah, like no one's got a lot left in like social batteries and just caring, I suppose. I don't know. But I might be wrong, but then we'll discuss that in crisis talks because we'll do the flip side, okay. And how people are also unselfish and those acts of being like the complete opposite, which I still think are around, and I don't I don't want it to sound like a bit like miserable.

SPEAKER_00 32:12

No, no, and I think and I don't think I think I think it's important to acknowledge it so that you can flip it as well, and we can talk in crisis talks about some of the nice things in life. The thing, I mean, a slightly not funny side of it, is the and this is a social media thing, is this concept of self-care. And I wasn't really aware of it until I think Freya, maybe it was when she was in year eight, and she started to really get into social media, and um she used to have self-care Sundays. Oh, and it was a she everything she did was around looking after herself, and so she would have I mean they do this anyway still, but she would have these showers that would last about two, three hours where you know well, I'm I'm maybe exaggerating a little bit, but they would shower and then you would do like a body scrub or something, then you would shower again, and then you would wash your hair.

SPEAKER_03 33:09

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 33:09

So it would take ages, and then you do face masks and hair, and um, and it that's a social media driven trend. It was a it was a massive trend at that time, and that and it just used to make me smile because it was like I don't know, I like the concept of it, but when anything becomes a social media trend, it just goes ridiculously. That's just indulgent though, isn't it? Yeah, it's self-indulgence, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:35

But what's the difference between that and self-self-care, self-indulgence? Self-indulgence is more self-ish, I think. Self-care is like like me this week, no, I'm not doing it. Yeah, that is proper self, it's self-care. Because you like, actually, if I do that, I'm gonna this is gonna be detrimental to me, and then I won't be any use to anybody else. No, it's the short term versus long term, yeah, because I'm gonna burn out and then no one's gonna get anything out of me. My whole family are gonna be, I'm just gonna be in misery guts. So it's that it's that choice of no, I'm not doing it. This I'm more important than that. Now that is self-care because you actually that's not selfish because you're thinking of other people and how you may end up.

SPEAKER_00 34:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:28

See what I mean? You can't pour from an empty cup.

SPEAKER_00 34:31

Yeah, absolutely. That's a really key point, actually. And I suppose that's where that self-care trend came from. But I just think it as things do on the social media is on social media, it just grows arms and legs, doesn't it? And it becomes something at to the point of ridiculousness, and your favourite influencers who give you a day and a day in the life of their life.

SPEAKER_02 34:50

Oh, day one.

SPEAKER_00 34:51

And it's like I've got up this morning and I've had a shower for 14 hours, and I've covered myself in body lotion, and it's not real though, is it?

SPEAKER_02 35:00

And actually, if you're spending two, three hours in the shower, yeah, it's selfish. Because he's paying for it, yeah. Right? So, um, yeah, I I don't know. Uh but again you back to social media. I mean, that just creates people being selfish because then if you're not doing that, then you're not achieving in life, which goes back to the first point.

SPEAKER_03 35:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:23

Of everybody's like comparing everything and striving for this absolutely perfect life. Yeah, the only way you're going to be able to do that is to tread on others.

SPEAKER_00 35:34

Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Yeah. So how can you live a life that enables you to succeed whilst not w like not impacting on other people?

SPEAKER_02 35:45

Well, I don't think you can. If you want to truly it depends how you how you perceive success, though, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_03 35:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:51

Like I that success my version of success would be very different to like Jeff Bezos, for instance. Like now he will have tread on lots and lots and lots of people. Yeah. And won't and won't have given a shit. What about that Donald Trump? Oh. Exactly. But he would see him, he's successful. Now, for me, I look at people like that and I've I I feel quite revolted by them. And I genuinely do. So I look at people like that and think you're actually really vulgar and revolting. So in my opinion, you're not actually that successful. No. Because you you're not you're a revolting human.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

So there you go. Revolting versus selfishness. Uh, I think the last point is, um, and we've talked a lot about this in room one and one, is driving. And I'm there's there's there is actually scientific research that shows that when you're driving a car, even if you are not a naturally egotistical or selfish person, you drive in that way, and it's something to do with the um I can't think what the right word is, but but because you're not in direct contact people with people, because you have that box around you and they have a box around them, so you don't really I don't know, you it almost takes the humanity out of it, doesn't it? You've not got the confrontation though, have you?

SPEAKER_02 37:14

Yeah, the direct, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:15

And and I think we we had there was a big um the accident near work yesterday, and I think the the traffic was awful, and um and people would and I'd I a literate work had had a problem and road rage instant and I spoke to my brother on his way home and he was having a nightmare, and it's because people have been stuck in traffic for such a long time, they do stupid things because they just want to get home and they don't actually care about anyone else around them, they just want to get home and they'll do stupid manoeuvres and they'll put other people at risk. And it's interesting, isn't it, that it it that even applies to people who wouldn't normally do things like that.

SPEAKER_02 37:53

Yeah, yeah. And is that self? I suppose it is, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:57

Yeah, I think it is. Well, things like we've talked about this on Marine 101, like when you're trying to turn right out of a road and yeah, no one lets you out, or in or you know, things like that, or you you make a mistake and everyone beeps you, it's like this.

SPEAKER_02 38:11

Yeah, see, I'm quite um I I I'm quite empathetic sometimes because if in br in Bristol, which is an absolute nightmare to drive around, now you can you that like some roundabouts, you know, you're in the wrong lane and you're like, oh for sake, you've got to be over there and look at this idiot, blah blah blah. And I'm quite like, no, like they they might have they might never have been to Bristol in their life. Like I find it really difficult to drive in Bristol, so this person might be really and I'm quite just let them let 'em be. Let them be. Let's not be. There you go. See? There you go.

SPEAKER_00 38:45

The answer to being a selfish generation then is to be more Katie. Yes. Less Katie and more Katie. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:55

Just be empathetic.

SPEAKER_00 38:56

People have shit days. I know. And there's that that that old adage, isn't it? You don't know what someone's had to deal with in that day before they've got to you. And you should be kind.

SPEAKER_02 39:07

Yeah, you should. You should always be kind. Yeah, you should. Maybe is that not, I don't know. All right, well, we're not selfish people. I think we are. You are definitely not.

SPEAKER_00 39:21

Well, I do think I have some selfish behaviours at times. But I'm not selfish. I think mine's driven by being too busy is generally my problem.

SPEAKER_02 39:32

Yeah, that's not being yeah, but then you're not selfish.

SPEAKER_03 39:36

No.

SPEAKER_02 39:37

If anything, you could probably consider everybody else around you too much to try and make everything like good for everybody. Do you know what I mean? There you go.

SPEAKER_00 39:47

There you go. All right, I'll take that on board and we'll be more you. So um in our crisis talks this week, we are going to talk about the reverse of being selfish and the things, the nice things in life, and how to be less selfish.

SPEAKER_01 40:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:02

That's a nice little topic, really, isn't it? I've enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_01 40:05

Yeah, I like that as well. Definitely.

unknown 40:09

Cool.

SPEAKER_01 40:10

All right, all right. Well, I'll see you Wednesday. Yeah, see you Wednesday. Bye my lovely. Love you. Bye bye.