#35: Why She Can’t Feel You: The Missing Piece In Repair Conversations

She won’t feel you until you can hold and channel your life force in the heat of the moment. Grab our free training + meditation to learn how: https://www.sovereignunion.co/reclamationintro

Every man has the experience of spinning their wheels in conversations that go nowhere. It’s those long, boring conversations when it feels like no matter what you say, nothing gets you closer to a resolution.

You’ve reassured her with your words, made a reasonable explanation, and proposed a solution.

But none of those matter if she can’t feel you.

For men, the two feet between their heads and their hearts feels like the hardest path to walk.

In this episode, we share how you can efficiently complete repair conversations and deepen connection by sharing your heart. It’s not about sobbing uncontrollably or dumping your emotions at her feet. It’s about expressing what’s true for you while remaining grounded, so that she feels like you care - because you do, you just might not know how to make her feel it.

For her to feel the real you - the you that gives and receives love freely - you must understand the versions of you that get defensive, shut down, blame, or run from love. We’ll teach you how in our summer course RECLAMATION.

Learn more and register here: https://www.sovereignunion.co/reclamation

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

What do men have to do to actually clear the air?

SPEAKER_00 0:05

Peace feels much different than saying I'm done.

SPEAKER_02 0:09

This masculine energy, it really is sometimes a separating energy. You want to accomplish the goal instead of sharing an experience.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

Managing the defensiveness isn't the whole thing.

SPEAKER_02 0:26

Emotion and solving the problem are mutually exclusive.

SPEAKER_00 0:32

When you are feeling like you need to suppress an emotion, what does it feel like for you?

SPEAKER_02 0:40

It's hard. It gets easier. It never gets easy.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

This is sad. When someone is in an activated or dysregulated state, like logic is not accessible.

SPEAKER_02 0:53

For men, it is.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

You could literally kill me if you get angry enough in this room. Welcome to the Well Worship Man podcast, where men come to build unshakable presence, become the rock in their relationships, and build a legacy that lasts beyond their years. Here, we explore the path to mature masculinity through humble power, daily devotion, and unwavering integrity.

SPEAKER_02 1:16

Thanks, baby. And before we get into our conversation today, we have a free gift for you. It's a free training and meditation designed to help you hone your focus, the one skill that is degrading every day, unless you are training it actively. So you can grab that meditation and the free training in the show notes. What are we talking about today, baby?

SPEAKER_00 1:39

Today we are talking about the fact that the feminine needs to feel the masculine. And specifically, we were talking about this as it relates to conversations around rupture and repair, but we'll see where the conversation takes us.

SPEAKER_02 1:56

Yeah, this is something that most men have heard in relationship, is that she just can't feel you. And most men are like, what does that even mean? And it's important to understand what it means for guys because every guy wants to spend less time in those boring, monotonous, clumsy conversations that we call rupture of her wanting something that you just can't seem to give. And so it is possible to repair ruptures efficiently, getting to the heart of the matter is really what we're talking about today. Um, and most guys try to talk around that, and it just feels like you've talked about everything except for the thing that's actually going to bring this boring, long, arduous, uncomfortable conversation to an end.

SPEAKER_00 2:58

Yeah, I think that's where much of the confusion comes from is okay, a rupture happens, and then you're having the repair conversation, and you are basically checking the receipts. That's how initially repair conversations tend to go. And we've talked through everything, we understand what we can do better, but there's still not actual repair occurring. And that little last piece is the way that I describe it is like the air is still dirty in here. Like I know that the facts are aligned and I know that the things have been said, but the air still feels dirty. There's something else that isn't being moved.

SPEAKER_02 3:44

Yeah, it can feel really defeating to guys, it can feel like a real mind-bender of just what you said. The facts are adding up. I've said all the right things, and still the air is unclear. So, what do men have to do to actually clear the air?

SPEAKER_00 4:08

There are a few things that they have to do. You know, one of them is take responsibility for any errors that have occurred, which we talk about often on this podcast. The second thing is be in the experience with her. So a lot of conscious conversation advice or uh repair workshops or relational workshops will teach you how to have conversations in a healthy way. And they give you a script. We actually have something like this. And the script is helpful if someone hasn't ever gone through a healthy, challenging conversation before. But the problem with a script is that once you learn the script, you can just keep using the script. And that isn't really quite enough. You know, I can say I love you, or I can feel and mean it, and also say I love you. And there's a different way that it comes through. And what men struggle with because they often aren't as attuned with the energetic field or the emotional field, or just don't have as much time spent in those spaces, is that the feminine in the room, whoever's holding it, can generally feel the difference between words being spoken and words being embodied. And words being spoken versus actually every cell in the person's body speaking them is holding the frequency of what you know the meaning of those words are.

SPEAKER_02 5:41

Yeah. So this episode is really about how she can feel you and not just hear you. You talk about the scripts, and the scripts are a great place to start, resources like nonviolent communication, but they don't complete the equation. And so getting better at repair, getting better at these courageous conversations with your partner is certainly a path and one that you can improve on forever. And early on, the path, guys need to learn the scripts, they need to learn the sentence stems, like, tell me more, can you help me understand that? How they can reassure their partner. Um, but that is not the end of the path. Uh, because what happens is guys can say all of the right things, they can stop getting defensive, and that effort to not be defensive actually can defeat men's ability to show up in a way that she can actually feel, right? Throughout the moment of elevated emotion, throughout the uncomfortable conversation. If the guy in his head is just saying, don't escalate, stay calm, don't get defensive, just reassure, just echo, just restate what she's saying in different words. There's so much mental energy being taken up by those processes that there's not enough space for him to really drop into whatever he's feeling emotionally so that she can actually feel him. Because what she wants most is that what she's feeling so deeply to know that he's feeling something too, to know that he is actually with her in that process instead of up in his head. So guys are always kind of calculating their way through these conversations of how can we get through this without a blow up instead of how can I fully be in this? They have this goal orientation of like, okay, we need to complete and exit this conversation with things feeling like they've been figured out, instead of releasing that entirely and becoming completely present in the mess enough so that she feels like you're on the same team in the mess together, that you're not actually trying to extricate yourself from it as quickly as possible in that moment.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

Yeah, I this visual of she is in the mess and she just wants you there too, is so important. And also what you're saying about men being goal-oriented of wanting to get to the other side, it's like the feminine wants to get to the other side too, you know, like no one really wants to be here, but the fact is that we are here, and as we always say, you know, like the only way out is through, and so positioning yourself in a place of how do I get to the other side instead of how do I walk through this cave, this valley, this mess with my partner isn't really going to create the outcome that anyone's seeking. And as you're talking about, you know, the attempt to suppress the defensiveness, it's like that is such an important skill to have is to be able to manage frustration or defense or anger so that it's not coming out. We've talked about this together before. I don't know if we've talked about this on the podcast before, but like the amount of physical space and also energy that a man takes up in comparison, usually to the feminine partner, it's like there is a physiological and evolutionary program that says you could literally kill me if you get angry enough in this room. And so for the man in the room, I think it is really important to be able to manage that defensiveness, but also knowing that like that isn't the end of the story. Like managing the defensiveness isn't the whole thing. And in my experience, you know, as you've gone on your journey of noticing when your like defensive teenager wants to come into the chat, it's like there is this part of me that is almost like trying to hook your emotion. And I'm conscious enough in those states to be like, okay, it's actually great that he's not engaging with me in this way. And there is a part of me that's desiring an emotional expression, which over time I've realized that is the part of me that is desiring to feel that you have an emotional like investment in the process that we're also going through. And I think that is the miss sometimes when I mean, really anyone in the conversation, but it is usually masculine and feminine, but anyone in the conversation is saying words and not having an emotional response when someone else is. It's like if someone in a relationship is having an emotional response, there should be some kind of emotional response going on in the other person. It doesn't have to be as big or as much or as intense necessarily. But if something is so upsetting to one person that there is an emotional process, there should be some type of emotion being activated in the other person. However, that gets to express is, you know, unique to each person in each situation. But the suppression of anger, the suppression of frustration, or the suppression of defensiveness is only going to block the emotional connection from the heart that's like being desired on the other side.

SPEAKER_02 11:36

Yeah, when we talk about making her feel you, it's not a specific emotion from you that she needs to feel. She just needs to feel that it matters to you emotionally, that what's going on is emotionally relevant to you beyond just a problem to be solved by your masculine brain, that it's something that is impacting you because you are in it together. She will feel alone unless she feels the emotional impact from you. And so removing, like you said, not escalating the conversation is definitely a win. And not following her big, expressive, feminine emotional lead is also a win because, like you mentioned, when a when a man's emotions are big as a woman's are standardly, it can feel dangerous. So it's not that you need to like start gesturing with your hands and and crying or screaming or any of that. It's you stay grounded and you allow the emotion to come through. And it can be a moment. It doesn't mean that both of you are utterly unregulated and emotional for an hour, just a moment of truly your heart coming through and allowing her to see what's under the defensiveness, allowing her to see that it's hard for you to, then the two of you can have a much more productive conversation about what needs to happen as far as a problem being solved now that the experience has been shared.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

You know, I'm thinking about some men that I've worked with that when they've arrived to me can't really feel anything below their head. Right. You know, it's like, how are you doing? I'm fine. Okay, what do you notice in your body? Even physical sensations, like maybe they're feeling tension or stress or pain somewhere, but that's like really the extent of it. And so that shows that, you know, in order to really have these connecting conversations and partnership, you have to be connected to this part of yourself on your own to expect that you're gonna show up into a repair conversation, be able to express whatever emotions you're feeling and it go well if you don't know what those things feel like on your own time is a pipe dream. You really have to be familiar with your own processes to know, oh, when I feel this type of way, that means that I'm feeling X. When I feel that type of way, that means that I'm feeling Y. And there is a lot of effort that sometimes has to go in for certain people because we've learned to suppress our emotions so well, or we've learned to numb our emotions so well, or we've learned that emotions aren't masculine or whatever any individual person has learned. And to unlearn that programming or to unlearn the things that were taught to us by culture or parents or bullies in school or anything, even past partnerships, so that it feels safe enough to express those things in partnership is a whole journey. And that's not gonna happen in the midst of a repair conversation in partnership.

SPEAKER_02 15:02

Yeah, the importance of a personal practice, simply sitting with your feelings. It's not fancy, it's not glamorous, it's not complex. Simply sitting with your feelings and the physical sensations that you're having as a daily practice is really, really important. And then the expansion of that is practicing it during low-stakes environments and conversations over dinner when you're having a conversation. Can you keep your awareness, some of your awareness in your legs, in your feet and in your body, right? When you're leading a meeting or listening to a podcast, can you keep some of your attention in your body and feel what's happening there? Because every emotion has a physical signature. And so as we start to map out our internal world, both are relevant, especially when the stakes are high. Can I feel my body? When you have when you feel your body, you have a much better chance of one not getting defensive and escalating the situation beyond where it needs to be, and two, being able to access the emotions that are actually going to clear the tension out of the room and allow you guys to have a productive conversation.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

So you have shared before that part of the challenge, which I think you know, all of us have heard in some way, shape, or form, but part of the challenge for the masculine and people in male bodies is that they are supposed to be strong and they're supposed to be stable, but then also they're supposed to have access to their emotions. And it is it is confusing, you know, it's like what which tool do I use when? And yeah, so I am curious a little bit about your unwinding of that, yeah um, at least as far as you've gotten, and also like where people can can start in managing, you know, whose voices is telling them what.

SPEAKER_02 16:58

Yeah. Well, the masculine fixing and solving is a really important piece, and nobody wants that to go away, man nor woman. And when we talk about emotions, I like to think I like to teach emotions as pressure that builds up inside of us, and eventually, depending on how we're calibrated, our pressure, pressure relief valve will reach its maximum, and that pressure, that emotion will need to be released. And so we can train ourselves to hold more emotion. Uh, but what happens in most men is the emotion builds and builds, and we're not really feeling it, we don't want to feel it, and we repress it, we numb it, we dull it, it builds, and then it's zero to one hundred. It's like our partner, we have not declared that there's been any emotion at all. And then suddenly that pressure relief valve explodes, right? And that could be an outburst, it could be a meltdown, it could be shutdown, total withdrawal, you go mute, it could be blaming, projecting, it could be physically leaving, right? Any of these protective mechanisms. And so all of that is not the mature masculine's way of expressing emotions. I actually learned recently that any of those things happen, and a man's estrogen is actually high. And so the release of emotion from men, we don't quite have as much of a pass as women do to be wild with the release of our emotions because we are bigger, we are stronger, we are more capable of physical damage, we are looked to as the providers of safety and security. So expressing emotion is still mandatory for the overall well-being of men, but it needs to come through in a regulated manner. And actually, when a man is repressing, dulling, or hiding his emotions, he is creating an environment of unsafety for his woman. Because the more that we hold those things behind the curtain, the more probable it is that they come out in surprising and damaging ways. So learning to express emotion while remaining grounded, while understanding that the emotions might feel big, but they are never bigger than us because we are the ones having the emotions. So developing an emotional awareness is really, really important because whatever we are aware of, we know that we are not that. If I am aware of my anger, I know that I am not my anger. And so my anger never runs the show. So developing an awareness of what the emotions feel like in your body, using the emotions wheel, mapping out your physical sensations to your emotional signatures to understand which ones correspond is really, really important. And the other piece is to be in a relationship and an internal environment where you feel safe enough to express your emotions. Because when it comes through in a regulated manner, my anger might just look and sound, I might feel the heat in my chest and in my head, and I might look at you and say, I'm feeling angry. Right? You can feel it in my voice a little bit. I'm feeling angry, but the volume's not raised, right? And you know, holding the frustration, the powerlessness, you know, there might be some tears, you know. For me, when it comes during conversation, it's it's you know, the rising in my throat and some tears form in in my eyes, right? It's rarely like a boo-hoo sob. Like that might be it for some men, but that's probably a process to have internally or with other brothers. Um, and of course, in situations like losing a loved one, yes, like your woman can hold you, but if it's just like a life thing, it's important for you to feel that. And it's also important that your woman know that you can feel your emotions while maintaining a spine, right? You don't want to really become like a jelly, formless dude in the presence of your woman often. There are certainly spaces for that, um, but that's not really like the regulated expression of emotion that I'm teaching as the masculine way of feeling and expressing.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

I asked what your experience was, and that I feel like was such good information from like a teaching perspective. But what I what I meant to ask was like in that moment when you are feeling like you need to suppress an emotion, what does it feel like for you, or like what does it feel like? To be balancing these different voices of like the way that the masculine quote unquote should show up because I don't have that experience, but I feel like it is one that you have, and it is one to like that would be important to hear.

SPEAKER_02 22:18

Yeah, well, the conflict is that emotion and solving the problem are mutually exclusive. I can't have my emotional process and then also solve the problem in the three-dimensional reality at the same time. So for men, it feels counterproductive to feel the emotion because on paper, sequentially, it's not leading to an alleviation of the pain of the problem. So they're actually two separate things. So it can feel like a disservice to a man, to his family, to his relationship, to actually sit back and feel the emotion when he could be taking action to solve it. But it's actually a must because whatever action he takes, he can take the same action from a different emotional place and get a different result. And even if he solves the problem, he's still carrying the emotional baggage.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

Can you say that again? Or I can repeat it.

SPEAKER_02 23:23

Say it.

SPEAKER_00 23:24

Okay. A man can create a different outcome saying the same thing, but from a different emotional state. Something like that.

SPEAKER_02 23:32

A man can get a different solve a problem from a different place. I don't really know.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

Doing the same thing, but feeling a different emotion. I don't know exactly how you said it, but that is that's important. It's like the emotional state that you're in when you're taking the action or saying the thing lands differently. And it's like that is completely my experience across the board in all repair conversations, you know, partnership for sure, but also like in every relationship where there someone can apologize or take responsibility or say, I'm with you and I'm here for you. But until they're actually in their heart space, it's not landing in my system. And so this is a really interesting, um, like internal battle that you're highlighting because from a get to the end as quick as possible so that we don't have to be in this conversation anymore, for sure, feeling emotions doesn't make sense. But it's like that's the difference between the mind and the heart. You know, the mind can only do a math problem. It's like this plus this much time equals that outcome. But the heart has like a way of weaving the web that is timeless. It's like that's the beauty of love. Like true love is not limited by time. And so the internal dialogue is well, if I say these things or do these things or honor her experience with my words, validate her emotions, X, Y, Z, then we'll be done. But she slash I slash the feminine in general is waiting to be felt. And so it is actually only by getting into the heart space that we make our way out. And this, yeah, this advice to men of like, okay, but you know, have your own practice and also the brotherhood because she can't see your emotions, but she wants to see your emotions. But now we're saying also, but you must feel your emotions in her presence, otherwise, you'll never actually repair. It's a it's a lot. And I just want to honor that, like it's really heavy. There's a lot of advice that goes into the feminine experience as well, but it's much different, the weights that we're holding. And um, yeah, I just I just want to like double tap that the information that the masculine is being fed about the quote unquote right way to show up as the quote unquote divine man is constantly conflicting. And the truth is that it's the medicine of the moment, which we share about often in our containers and our emails and stuff, but it's like the medicine of the moment is the key. So there may be a moment where like the way to hold yourself in truth, which is really, you know, the definition of mature masculinity is like truth and integrity, it's like authenticity, you know, like when you're reaching outside of yourself, that's when it's gonna weave into other forms of masculinity. But it's like if a more comfortable way to say it is like being present and integrity, that works too. And sometimes the answer is gonna be taking space to yourself, and sometimes the answer is gonna be brotherhood, and sometimes the answer is gonna be processing your emotions on your own time and then coming to your partner. But sometimes it is gonna be letting her see you cry. And until that happens, the you're gonna be stuck. And so it is confusing and there is always a different answer, but that is part of like this the beauty of this path of humanity is like learning which step to take when.

SPEAKER_01 27:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:27

And it's gonna change, it's gonna be different across every relationship, too. It's a dance that you're not you're not just learning the dance yourself, but you're learning this dance with your partner as well.

SPEAKER_00 27:40

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SPEAKER_02 27:54

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SPEAKER_00 28:25

So, no matter where you are on your journey, whether you're just beginning and feel completely immersed in gray clouds of your own mess, or you've been on this path for a while and are just looking to fine-tune your devotion to your journey, whether you identify as a man or a woman, we want all of you in this community with us so that we can all rise together.

SPEAKER_02 28:47

To learn more and register, click the link in the description and we'll see you when we start. Yeah, I was thinking of an example of, you know, once we break this down, it's like really easy to see. Let's let's say there's a a couple and their kids at school, and they misaligned on who's picking the kid up. And the woman calls the man and says, Have you picked up Ryan yet? And the dad's like, No, I thought you were doing it. Like, oh shit, neither of us picked up Ryan. The man's like, Don't worry about it. I'm gonna go do it. I'll be there in 10 minutes. She's like, Okay, and hangs up the phone. That process is complete for him. That process is not complete for her. Yeah, she doesn't know that he's felt the terror of leaving your child alone with no caregiver. And so, what it might have taken from him in the moment to bring that process to an efficient close is oh no, no one's there to pick up Ryan. He's probably worrying. I'm gonna go get him and I'll make sure to have a conversation with him and apologize and make sure that he feels better about it before I get home. Is there anything that you need?

SPEAKER_00 30:06

Um, that's a great example and really interesting because you know, as you're talking, like, okay, check. Like my internal mind is like check, check, check. And then at the end, you're like, okay, is there anything you need? And my perspective was gonna be, and I know that you were worried about where he was, but don't worry, like, I got it. Yeah. You know, like everyone's I'll let him, I'll let you know when I have him, so you know that everyone's safe, you know, and to understand that the process completion occurs differently when the problem is solved for the masculine versus like when the emotions are felt, I feel is really important. And it's honestly the same teaching over and over, just in certain circumstances. It's like right now we're talking about repair, but in other ways, people will talk about intimacy, where like a man will feel intimacy in more of a whatever logical way sometimes, and the woman like needs time and warm-up and all of these things. And it's like learning to love each other as we need is supportive. And as we're talking about this, I'm wondering, you know, for our experience specifically, it usually is like once we are on the other side of a conversation, truly, we can both feel it. There's definitely some times in the middle where you're like, okay, like I'm ready to be done. And I'm like, no, the air, the air's dirty, like we're not done. But when it but when it's actually complete, we can both feel like, oh, okay, now it's complete. But I'm wondering if there are ever times where it feels like um I'm trying to think of the right way to ask this question, where it feels like I'm not with you because I'm in my own emotional process, or I'm not with you because you're trying to solve the problem and I'm like not coming.

SPEAKER_02 32:01

I think that you know, there's the left brain, which is like logical and analytical, critical, problem solving, goal orientation, and then there's the right brain, which is more mysterious, which isn't really seeking a resolution, which is willing to be in the messiness of it all. And I think anytime one of us is feeling alone in something, the other is operating from a hyper left brain state. It's isn't only available to men. Anytime I don't feel met by you, you are feeling really busy or rushed or overwhelmed, or like there's a lot on your task list. And that's a right, that's a left brain masculine style. So the the masculine this masculine energy, it really is sometimes a separating energy because you want to get to the thing instead of being with your partner, you want to accomplish the goal instead of sharing an experience. And for the person who's resting on their emotional haunches, that just creates distance as the person in their masculine or their left brain is going after the thing or needs to check the boxes. It's like this person's left back here who really has no interest in all of those things at this time, who really just wants to be met. So I think it's that's how I feel. I think it's the same from both ends.

SPEAKER_00 33:46

Yeah, the thank you. Um that lands some stuff for me, actually, of just like, okay, yeah, reminder that these energies run through everyone. And the the busyness or the productivity is like the kryptonite for connection, honestly. Totally. And if someone is desiring connection and someone else is busy, the health of the relationship requires connection. That's what it's there for. And there are benefits to like the the masculine energy in both ends. You know, it's like what keeps the administrative aspect of the house or the relationship, or for us the business running and like it is what crunches numbers and makes sure of safety. But ultimately, you know, the relationship exists in the depths, in the heart, in the connection.

SPEAKER_02 34:42

Yeah. And the other thing I was thinking about, we've talked about this privately before, is that it always seems like the woman must be met emotionally first. Women want to feel safe and connected, men want to feel successful, and men feel successful when they solve problem or solve a problem or accomplish something. And so the question here is why does it always seem like a man must meet his woman emotionally before a woman can agree with him logically on the solution or the fix?

SPEAKER_00 35:20

Well, rule of science first. So from a nervous system state, when someone is in an activated or dysregulated state, like logic is not accessible.

SPEAKER_02 35:32

For men it is.

SPEAKER_00 35:33

No.

SPEAKER_02 35:34

When men are in a moderately stressed state and adrenaline is online, their blood goes to the logical part of their brain. That's why men are such good protectors. That's why when shit hits the fan, we're looking for the exit.

SPEAKER_00 35:46

But but the type of I think the type of activation that you're experiencing is like different. Like the the activation you're experiencing is okay, protect. Like danger, protect. But the type of activation I'm experiencing is danger, risk of death. Danger, risk of death.

SPEAKER_02 36:06

So it's more emotional.

SPEAKER_00 36:07

So there's, yeah, there's more of a an emotional process happening. And so the strategy is always for whoever's having the emotional process, like the real emotional process, not okay, we are problem-solving this rupture together, but the emotional process that's like really in the room, that must be addressed first in order to bring that person into a state of regulation of capacity. And like, yes, when men have activation and they are within their capacity, they're going into protection mode. But when it's outside of their capacity, it's not what's happening. Outside of capacity means no logic, no compassion, no empathy. So whoever is most dysregulated gets to be addressed first. And the way that we've talked about this before is like, you know, say we're both having an emotional process about something. Yeah, it's like there is this confusion in people or some couples that we work with of like, well, they've like I'm having an emotional process too. But that's not really how it works. One has to be solved at a time. And so it's like whoever finds the crumb gets to be held first. And so usually because of the feminine sensitivity emotionally and also her attunement to when something is off in the field, our process gets to be held first because I'm the one breaking down because I'm not feeling safe, you know, versus, I mean, this is actually kind of like motivation for men to stay attuned to their field and to have their personal practice and like to be constantly scanning for their own integrity and blind spots. Because if you can spot it first and you have an emotional process to talk about, like the other person will probably be in a state where they can hold you because they're not yet aware, you know? And so the I think this is kind of the point that I got to when we talked about this once before, though I had hadn't really remembered this. But it's like the feminine is usually being held first. The story is because she's more emotional. But the truth is it's she's more sensitive. She's the one that has sensed that there's something off. And the reality is when both of us are in our heart space sensing that there's something off in the container of our partnership, we're both upset. But the most of the ruptures are like the feminine sensing it and trying to convince the masculine that it's true.

SPEAKER_01 38:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:40

Instead of both people sitting down and being like, oh no, there's something amiss in our partnership. Like, this is sad.

SPEAKER_02 38:48

Yeah. I'm thinking of one of my coach's frameworks that he uses every time. And it doesn't ever fail. Is it starts with the emotional content? What's the emotion? Once that's acknowledged and felt, then it moves to the mental story. And then the last place, and this last step presents itself within an instant after the emotional content and the mental story are explored. The last piece is physical strategy. And when you feel your way through the emotional content to its full extent, what exists on the other side is clarity. So whatever solution a man is excited to present that he thinks is gonna fix anything is incomplete without the emotional content being explored, whether it's his own emotional content or his woman's, if it's a partnership that if it's a problem that's presenting in in partnership. So I see this image of the earth, and the deepest level is the emotional content, and everything else is stacked on top of that. Everything else that absorbs from that deeper level is impacted by it. So then you can get into what's happening in the mental, which guys love to talk about, and then you can get into the physical strategy, which guys love to talk about, but actually the physical strategy isn't gonna take as much time as the guy would like to talk about it for because once the emotional stuff is felt through, the the solution is apparent.

SPEAKER_00 40:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:25

Mm-hmm. I was thinking this when I was working with a client yesterday of like how often there's this experience after an emotional process of okay, I'm done with that. You know, like from the whoever's holding the masculine energy in the room often will have the experience of, okay, we talked about it. Like it's complete, but that's not like deciding that an emotional process is complete. It's not the completion of the emotional process. The completion of emotional process is when the shame or guilt or anger or frustration or whatever that harsh energy is shifts into a wave of good emotion. Like the body is naturally ebbing and flowing through different emotional waves all the time. And the way to know that an emotional wave is complete is you feel a sense of peace. You feel a sense of connection. You may even feel a sense of gratitude or deeper love. It doesn't have to get so far, but the neutrality and the peace should definitely exist. And peace feels much different than saying I'm done. I'm done feels like there's tension, like we're this is complete. Like I'm obviously blocking something if I have that type of energy in my body. Peace is like, oh whoa, that was a lot.

SPEAKER_02 41:47

Yeah. If you have a personal practice, a meditation practice, you're attuned to your own energy. It literally feels like a clearing of the air. It feels feels like the air becomes less dense. And you haven't opened a window, you haven't put on the air conditioning, you can feel the relief of density.

SPEAKER_00 42:12

Yeah, and so this story of you know, the way that the masculine energy versus the feminine energy comes into crucial conversations is something that gets talked about a lot, but it really is as simple as getting into your emotional heart. And it really is that hard, also, you know, like even just hearing this podcast and knowing, like, okay, I gotta like let my emotion show more. I gotta get into my heart. But in the moment, the whole way that the human physiology works is if I'm not feeling like it's okay for me to share this, I won't. I'll protect it. And so what's coming through as I'm talking is like some a way that the feminine can support the masculine actually is like if if the feminine is desiring for the masculine to be in the mess with her, it's like, okay, something about this conversation isn't feeling safe enough yet for the emotion to show. Um, and that's like what I work with with Peter Levine's work a lot, is like we don't have to dig for anything. No amount of words are are really going to like force someone to meet me in the mess. That's not gonna for I can't force my client to present. I mean, I could an emotional process, but it's not gonna be supportive in the end. And so the reality is creating the container in which safety exists. Like that. So the challenge for the feminine is like, even though I'm in my feminine emotional process, yeah, for a moment, I must be in the masculine state to say, like, okay, if I'm wanting to be met down here, how do I create the conditions that my male masculine Partner feels safe enough to also express emotion because that's what we're desiring, you know.

SPEAKER_02 44:05

Right. And if the woman can do that, awesome. And the man can also do some of that for himself. Yeah. So when things are going down at this stage in my development, it's pretty easy for me to say, tell me more about that. Can you help me understand that deeper? I'm here with you. I can breathe. I can stay grounded. Right. And I can and I can respond in real time. Right. But for me to drop into that deeper level that's required for you to really feel seen and met and to feel me, I can't get there in a moment. And like many women, you have plenty to say. And so what it takes for me is to literally be like, hey, I need a moment. And from the outside, looking at is probably pretty funny. Both of us will fall silent and we'll both close our eyes. And I'll just go into my personal practice. Like I'll feel into my body. I'll feel what emotion is there. And then once I've moved through that, what I say on the other side of that is nothing even remotely clear to the script of I feel you. I'm here with you. It's authentic. It's speaking with a nod and an awareness of my emotions, speaking to all of that density in the air that has been unaddressed by my well-scripted responses. And that is actually like what takes a massive leap forward in the conversation when you feel like you've been stuck.

SPEAKER_00 45:56

Yeah. Totally. There is honestly no reason for actual repair not to happen except that someone is not, someone in the room isn't feeling into an emotion that's uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_01 46:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:13

Because it is so clear. Like once it's voice, once it's felt, then we actually are sitting in the same place. And it's like suddenly we can breathe again. And the amount of time from you know, start to end is variable between any conversation. But the amount of time between like every crumb being found to the end of the conversation is minutes. And yeah, I think that's something that we do really well is it's usually me that's like, the air's still the air's dirty and we're not making like steps. But something that we do well is like once I speak that in that moment, both of us are like, okay, if nothing that we've said already matters, like what's missing, you know, yeah, what is still here. And our bodies are so intelligent that if we only create the space, like you're talking about, just going into your internal practice for 30 seconds sometimes, it's like it becomes clear. It really isn't about the problem solving, it's about the being with and the feeling through.

SPEAKER_02 47:24

Yeah. And even the willingness to enter into a personal practice in the midst of all of that, to step back instead of continuing to charge forward, which is the masculine's impulse.

SPEAKER_01 47:38

Yeah.

unknown 47:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:40

Is there anything else that you would like to share about this topic or in specifically like your process to get to where you've gotten?

SPEAKER_02 47:50

It's hard. It gets easier. It never gets easy. There might be conversations that are easy that are you just dip in, dip out. You guys are like, ooh, that was a great one. But I think that there will continue to be hard conversations that are hard for the rest of life, no matter how practiced or skilled you are, because there's not, like you mentioned earlier, there's not one right answer. There's always nuance to it, and you might have to squirm around in the muck for a while before you find the key for that particular situation. But more efficient, more loving repair is possible, more connection is possible, and it doesn't come, it doesn't require that you set aside your masculine solutions and fixing and finding the exit route, but it does require a humbling that that isn't the only ability needed. Uh, that there is a whole other end of the spectrum that men need to develop. And once you have that, you can make a conscious choice of which tool you're gonna pull out of the bag. Like, is it the hammer or is it the timer, you know, to see how long you need to sit with it.

SPEAKER_00 49:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:15

Homework?

SPEAKER_00 49:17

Well, a tool that I think is great for learning to feel your way through your own emotions and sit with them and learn to process them is reclamation. And, you know, there's only so many words I can say to describe it, but I really do feel like us going through this container that we're going to be offering to everyone starting in July is like we have noticed better the parts of us that come up and have found words for them and been able to hold these pieces of each other better. And that feels like a huge piece of what allows us to move through these types of conversations and processes more effectively and with more heart and with more love. Obviously, like we're always learning, but it really is true that until you know yourself, until you know which parts of you are defensive, like you can listen to this podcast all you want, but you need those tools in that time. And it's something that I'm really proud of in this program that we're offering this summer, and hopefully many times to come, of like really teaching people the best way to learn to hold themselves in these different ways, and then like what to do with their energy after that.

SPEAKER_02 50:39

Yeah. So developing a relationship to those versions of you that want to defend, that wanna suppress, that want to numb or reduce the emotion is required. That is the pre-work to be able to show up in the ways that we've described on this podcast. And so to dive deeper into that process, uh, we have a free training and a meditation for you. Uh, when you grab that, when you listen to that, you'll have the option to learn more about our upcoming course reclamation. Um, you can register, you can scroll all the way to the bottom of the registration page if you have questions and book a call with me. Um, we can make sure you have all the information that you need to make the decision that's best for you.

SPEAKER_01 51:33

Anything else?

SPEAKER_02 51:34

No. Love you.

SPEAKER_01 51:36

Love you.