#39: The Daily War: Masculinity, Mastery and Radical Responsibility | Donovan Owens

The greatest threat facing modern men may not be weakness itself. It may be consumption.

Too much food. Too much information. Too much exposure to other people’s energy.

In this episode, we sit down with Donovan Owens, founder of Life is REPS, to explore the hidden forces leaving men weak, distracted, disconnected and trapped inside lives that look successful from the outside but feel empty within.

Donovan explains why masculinity and mastery are not achievements a man can permanently possess. They are energies he must consciously choose to embody every day.

We discuss the difference between success on paper and success on purpose, the importance of radical responsibility, and how an intentional identity allows a man to stop performing for the world and begin building a life that is truly his.

Donovan also breaks down his five pillars of personal power: a strong self, real relationships, worthwhile work, meaningful adventure and financial flexibility.

The conversation moves into sacred partnership, conscious communication and the difference between leading a woman and attempting to become an authority over her. Donovan shares the relationship code that has helped him build an enduring marriage: most things simply do not matter as much as we think they do.

He also opens up about the darkest period of his life following his divorce, the moment gratitude interrupted his hopelessness, and the decision that allowed him to remain here, rebuild himself and become the man he felt called to be.

Finally, Donovan gives every man a practical assignment: create a Mastery Morning that produces a physical, mental and spiritual win before the outside world gets access to you.

This conversation is about leaving performance behind, winning the daily war against resistance and becoming the man your life requires—one rep at a time.

In this episode:

• Why consumption is one of the greatest threats facing men
• The difference between mastery and being a “master”
• Radical responsibility and intentional identity
• Success on paper versus success on purpose
• The five pillars of personal power
• Leadership versus authority in intimate partnership
• How men can navigate hopelessness and major life transitions
• Why every man needs adventure
• Creating an ideal and express Mastery Morning
• Building self-trust through promises you can actually keep

Learn more about Donovan and Life is REPS at lifeisreps.com

Learn more about about Jessica and Isaac at https://sovereignunion.co/

00:16 The Journey to Masculine Mastery
02:14 Mastery and Masculinity: An Unattainable Quest
11:25 Radical Responsibility: The Key to Identity
14:36 From Success on Paper to Success on Purpose
25:39 The Consumption Crisis: A Modern Challenge
31:35 Conscious Communication in Relationships
34:56 Redefining Masculinity and Leadership
38:23 The Journey of Self-Discovery and Healing
41:40 Finding Gratitude in Darkness
47:23 Conversations with Our Younger Selves
53:35 Creating a Mastery Morning Routine

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

The biggest challenge facing men, undoubtedly, is consumption. When I say consumption, I'm talking about three key things food, information, and other people's energy. The consumption of these three things in the amount that is happening right now is the greatest downfall of men in this modern day.

SPEAKER_01 0:16

Welcome to the Well Worship Man podcast, where men come to build unshakable presence, become the rock in their relationships, and build a legacy that lasts beyond their years. Here, we explore the path to mature masculinity through humble power, daily devotion, and unwavering integrity.

SPEAKER_06 0:34

Thanks, baby. Before we dive in today, make sure you leave the show a rating, a review. If you're watching on YouTube, press subscribe for more conversations like these. Today we have a special guest. We have Donovan Owens. He is a father of four, a grandfather of five, married to his queen with a single obsession of reviving the mastery of masculinity. Donovan retired at 47 after owning a fitness business for 20 years, quickly followed by voluntarily becoming homeless, selling everything, deleting all his social media accounts, and hitting the road. Thousands of miles on the road allowed him to receive his next assignment from God, building a peaceful rebellion against society's secret system of traps that are seducing men into becoming weak, fat, lost, and distracted. This peaceful rebellion is called Life is Reps. Reps stands for repetitive excellence produces success and is for growth-minded men who choose to build connected power within their mind, money, muscle, mastery, and masculinity. Welcome, Divin.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

I'm happy to be here. I appreciate you.

SPEAKER_06 1:44

Yeah, happy to have you on. In what I've learned about you already, there was something that really stopped me in my tracks, and something that you share that two things, mastery and masculinity, are actually unachievable. And I know I'm not the only guy that that would stop in the tracks, especially when we've been conditioned to achieve, achieve, achieve. And those two things, mastery and masculinity, sound like great things to get after. So tell us why those things aren't actually achievable.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

Okay. They're not achievable because they're energies. Okay. So I'll start there. Um a lot of men, including myself, in my early years in the, you know, after becoming a man, being 18, and realizing that drive, ambition, focus, discipline, all these things were going to be important in certain areas of my life. I was just like you said, I was set on achieving, achieving, achieving. And um what it led to was this loop of suffering in my life. And I'm all about intentional discomfort and struggle, like intentional struggle. I think it's necessary for a man to create that in his life every day. Suffering is something completely different. And so what I realized was in my quest to achieve and acquire, um, there was a missing piece in my mindset. And the mindset was that I wanted to be as I wanted to be as masterful as I could be. I wanted to be a master. Right. There's a there's a lot of ego and pride attached to that in my early life because if I'm a master, then, you know, obviously I'm seen a certain way. Um if I'm super masculine, if I'm as masculine as I can be, then I'm seen a certain way. And so that was this outward uh external validation that I was looking for. What I realized through creating um this my own lifestyle operating system over the last 15 years is that those are very unachievable things. And instead, what happens is a man can make a choice through who he's being to connect to the energy of mastery and masculinity daily. And that requires a daily commitment of showing up in a certain way and being very intentional in how a man shows up every day. Just like you setting the intention before we got on this podcast with the, you know, the breath work and the little prayer, like that is tapping into the energy of what we want this to be right now. Um so that's a very different way of looking at uh those two things. And when you when you look at it that way, what I found through myself and coaching hundreds of other men, when you look at it that way, it challenges you to be the man who can have the capacity to take on mastery and masculinity. It's earned, it's not given. Um so that's why mastery and masculinity are unachievable. And let me give you a little bit more context. Michael Jordan, arguably one of the best basketball players of all time, right? He was a master at basketball. That's how a lot of people look at it. Well, if you look at Michael Jordan today, I can confidently tell you that he is no longer a master at basketball. A lot of people would argue with that and be like, what? What are you talking about? This is Michael Jordan. Well, I don't know all the nuances of his life, but just stay with me. When he was playing basketball, he made a conscious, deliberate, and intentional choice every day to be. See the difference. He was masterful because he made a decision to tap into the energy of mastery. Now, my guess is that he probably doesn't wake up with that same intention every day because life's a little different now that he's retired and playing golf and doing other things, right? So this is why he would not be considered in this world that I'm building, a master at basketball, or he's not as masterful at basketball anymore. So that's the long answer to understanding the simple concept. If you want to choose to be and operate masterfully and as and be as masculine as possible, then it's a choice every day to wake up and tap into those energies that are not achievable.

SPEAKER_01 6:56

Yeah, I love the way that you're describing this because what feels um, you know, in in my feminine form, what feels kind of scary to me is like when anyone, really, any human, but for the sake of this conversation, like uh a masculine human reaches complacency and they start telling this story like, I'm I'm it. I've done it, like I've accomplished it. I'm the master, I'm the example of XYZ. And there tends to be then, you know, this complacency that leads to lack of choice every day to show up in in this way, where they are fine-tuning the mastery of being in this human form, being in connection to spirit, expressing their masculinity in whatever way. So, you know, you're describing it actually in a similar way of like how people in relational work would will describe like how do you allow a relationship to last and be nourishing and successful? And it's like, well, it's a choice every day, like choosing your partner. It's not love, it's like a choice every day to be in love, to express love. And so, yeah, the way you're describing this is a choice every day to show up in that form. And regardless of really what you're feeling, you can tap into that essence of, you know, harnessing mastery, harnessing the masculinity. And another aspect of this that I like is you can also choose when it's not necessarily the time to engage with that energy so intensely, you know, like if someone is super attached to being the man of the house or the man in the room, we talk about this a lot because we're in this program right now of like teaching people to um tap into their emotional states better so that they can use the wisdom from them. But in our culture, you know, where men don't have the um, I don't know, the teaching the same or the I'm losing the word, but like the gift that women have of like, oh, women get to be emotional, but that has programming around it for men. But when you're teaching masculinity as an energy, there's not so much of a hit to your persona when you have an emotional process that maybe would happen if someone says, like, in the physical form, I'm the I'm the man, I'm the masculine. It's just like, oh, I'm just tapping into a different energy right now. There's a little bit more um uh leeway.

SPEAKER_00 9:29

Yeah, I love how you're explaining that. It really takes the the pressure off of trying to to um be something that you're not actually, your identity is not actually allowing you to attract. Like you're really working hard to uh to be a certain way, and it's almost it almost can come off as a lot of pressure and and fake. There's a lot of performance involved. And so if we can release that pressure and take the performance out of it, um instead you get to focus on uh just a choice of the man or woman that you choose to be, and then ask the question, what does what does it look like to take aligned action with that? And most of the time, us in this growth space or any man or woman who chooses to be um in the in a space of growth, you're going to there's going to be this desire to tap into the energy of mastery and masculinity for men anyway, because it's required. It's required. And if it's if it's not there, then um again that leads to that suffering loop. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 10:45

Yeah, as you were speaking about achievement and why those two things are not to be achieved but to be tapped into daily. What I felt was this uh fixation that so many men have on their reputation of how other people see them, right? And so how did you or how do you help the men that you work with uh loosen the grip of reputation of how other people see me so that they can actually choose who they're here to be or tap into who God wants them to be?

SPEAKER_00 11:25

Man, powerful question. The answer to that is the the first of the seven mindsets of masculine mastery, which is part of the system, the first one is radical responsibility. And so anytime I'm having a conversation with a man, uh the first thing I'm listening for is the words that he's using to identify the level of responsibility that this man takes for his life. And this is something I had to do for myself in the very beginning. So I was the I was the guinea pig, right? I was the first one in line to take this on. And what I found is with radical responsibility, what it says is that 100% ownership is the minimum. There's nothing below that. And so I say all that to say once I can get a man to understand that, then we get to work crafting what I call an intentional identity. And an intentional identity will allow a man to focus on who he is being and also unravel the person that he's been being because of maybe the way he was brought up, uh the things his mom or dad said to him, uh, the things he heard from the pastor at church, society's rules that are pressing down on his desire to be some something, someone different. Uh so we go through the work that's required to unravel some of those things, at least bring awareness to him, uh, and then start to line out what is the identity required to achieve this vision, right? Because this vivid vision is another part of this. What is the identity required to achieve this vivid vision that you are ready to take radical responsibility for? Um so those two things combined, radical responsibility and an intentional identity, start to shift a man's life dramatically.

SPEAKER_01 13:32

When you are sharing about, you know, creating, creating the vision, creating the identity that actually can bring that vision to form. I'm curious about that process because in our culture and in masculinity culture specifically, but also just all of American culture, there's this idea that like working more is gonna get you there every single time. And we talk about and you talk about, and we've talked a little bit about together, that you know, our missions are God-given. And so there is this balance between like letting God lead us and also being responsible for like taking the actions that we are directed to take. Um, but there uh does seem to be required unwinding from this belief of like more is always going to get me there. If I just work harder, if I just spend more time in the office, if I just XYZ, then I'll be the man, then I'll have these things, then I'll XYZ, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 14:36

Yeah, a strong topic because we are in a culture of uh performance. And you know, with this social media world that we live in and and always on and this this fire hose of information that's being just it's getting bigger every day. Um it's easy to get caught up in this performance uh I call it a performance paradox where you feel like the more you do, the further you'll get, and you and you wake up the next day and you realize, man, that didn't really work. Let me let me try harder. Let me let me just do more of that and add some other stuff. And we just start to repeat. Um So what this leads to for a lot of men, and I experienced this in my own life about 20 years ago, was it leads to what I call success on paper, right? Where everything just looks great on the outside. It's well manicured. If you were if I were to sit down and have a conversation with my former self or a lot of men now and and ask a question of tell like can you tell me everything that's going on here in the heart? Well, what's what's going on? It's a completely different image than what's being portrayed externally. So success on paper is sometimes a good start for people. Um, but once you get caught up in it, what happens is you get 20 years down the line and you realize I've been living somebody else's life. And so the mission becomes to go from success on paper to success on purpose. In order to do that, there has to be intentional identity, there has to be a vivid vision that you own, and then there has to be aligned actions that you take every day that magnetize that vision closer to your life. Um, and all those turn into being. They turn into the way a man is being. And in that being, that's where you start to really feel what the power and energy of mastery and masculinity are. And so um that's the connection between all of these things. It's one interconnected system. They're not individual pieces, right? A lot of men look at them as individual pieces, and then what happens is they try to say, Oh, I'm gonna work on this piece. And then they're like, all right, I got this piece, I'm gonna go work on this piece, and all of a sudden this piece is dropping down. And they're like, Oh, I gotta go back and work on this piece, and it's this right here. Like the relationship with the wife is going down. Oh, I'm not making as much money as I was. Let me go make some money. Oh, now my relationship is not very good. Harmonious action is so important. And that's where when you start to take these, like the radical responsibility, you can start to bring these things together and realize there's nobody to perform for. There's only a man to be, and you get to own your entire system. You get to own the way you do everything. Even if you're working for other people, even if you're in a relationship, you have kids, all these things that feel like external pressure, as long as you have your internal system dialed in, you get to choose how you play the game. And there tends to be a lot of uh connection and harmony and alignment when you do it this way.

SPEAKER_01 18:10

I'm glad you're talking about this because my my next question for you, and then you proceeded, was going to be, you know, when when we start introducing this idea that productivity isn't always the answer, you know, it's not about doing more, it's about being integrous and like whole. Um, there is a fear that comes online of, oh, if I stop, start working so hard, stop working so hard and start feeling more, then X, Y, Z, I'm gonna be perceived as whatever they think they're gonna be perceived as, which in your explanation, you know, getting rid of the performance aspect addresses. But then there are also fears that sometimes come up of, oh, if I'm not spending so much time supporting the job or the mission because I'm working on what's coming up in my heart in order to get them in balance. But there is this balancing phase, you know, there is sometimes a fear that they're not gonna be able to pay for stuff or they're not gonna be able to support the life that they've developed. And um, you know, sometimes for clients, I'm like that just is part of the recalibration phase sometimes. Like sometimes there is a loss of some things while you're coming back into integrity. Um, but I'm curious how you support that fear that comes up in the space in between or in that transition phase sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 19:33

Through the process of eliminating as humans, going through this performance cycle, coming up through this, uh, you know, society's constructs and all the things that can start to put pressure and and turn you into somebody that you didn't want to become. All of those things are um their weight that a man carries. So making a simple but not easy choice to start dropping off weight is one of the most, is the low the lowest hanging fruit. What are you carrying through your life that it's like imagine having a big rope connected to a backpack that is just full of stuff and you're just dragging it around with you your entire life and you just keep putting stuff in the backpack and the backpack's getting heavier and you just keep making a choice. Wake up, grab this rope, drag it along. Well, one of the simplest choices we can make is first of all, you can open your hands and let go of the rope. Right? Or if you choose that there's a few things in that backpack that are valuable, you can walk back to the backpack, take some things out of it that are no longer valuable, and then you can drag a lighter backpack, right? Or you can actually put the backpack on because it's light enough. So that eliminating a lot of things helps. The way I help men do this in a little more tactical way is what I call the the uh five pillars of personal power. And the five pillars of personal power, the first one is strong self, right? And strong self is um has three components to it forever fitness, nourishing nutrition, mindset mastery. We know as men that is the very first place that we have to start, and that's where we finish. So everything else is in between those. All right. So you got your strong self, you got real relationships. Real relationships involves your intimate relationship, family relationships, friend relationships, and spending time in those areas and understanding how to create harmony in them is where a lot of this work happens. Okay, so real relationships. The other one, uh the third one. Worthwhile work. Are you doing work that you love? Right? So you have your current work. You may not love it, but it's there. So current work is one of the components. Then you have your dream work, which is the work that you know you're being called to. You can feel it right here. Um, but you're having a struggle getting there. And then you have what's called the bridge work. The bridge work is the work it takes to get from the current to the dream. Okay. Um, and then the fourth one is amazing adventure. More men than I can count through my history of coaching, just don't adventure anymore. And it is one of the strongest things that a man can do in order to come back, especially if he has a spouse, in order to come back and be stronger than ever for his spouse. He must get out and adventure, connect with other men, do crazy things sometimes. Nothing that's unethical or un you know, unmoral, but things like that just scare him a little bit. You know, get to the edge of the cliff, climb the mountain, you know, jump off the thing, ride the motorcycle, whatever, whatever. There's got to be some kind of adventure in a man's life. It could be fitness competitions, whatever it is. Um, so amazing adventure. That involves your happy hobbies, local adventure, travel adventure. And then the fifth uh pillar is financial flexibility. You can choose how rich you want to be in money. But to have a level of financial flexibility matters. Most men's stress comes from the way finances rest in their life. And so if you have plenty to support the things that are the most important in your life, all of a sudden, all these other areas, you get to relax a little bit more. You don't have to perform as much anymore, right? Because you can just be who you are. Um, it helped. So the financial flexibility helps. And that is sacred savings and deciding how you're going to consciously contribute. How can you give back? Um, so when you have those five pillars in place, you know where to apply your energy every day. These are the five things that matter. Everything outside of that, or everything that doesn't add value to that, you get to say no to. And that's a very powerful thing.

SPEAKER_06 24:33

Yeah. Yeah, like when men start making these changes and they surrender the script and start writing their own story and and feeling into their heart, it can be, like Jessica said, it can feel like a little bit of a free fall. But one thing that men love is a framework, a system, some principles, which you have. It's like whenever a man feels like they would they would fall, it's like, hey, I've got this, I've got this principle for you. This is why you feel unsupported, because you haven't colored in everything that is necessary for you to feel like there is a path below you. And uh there is a lot up against men, right? There's a lot of pressure to perform, to provide, to fit into a model of what they were taught a man needs to be. Um, but what would you say is the biggest challenge that's facing men today?

SPEAKER_00 25:39

The biggest challenge facing men, undoubtedly, is consumption. Consumption. And I when I say consumption, I'm talking about three key things. Uh food, information, and other people's energy. The consumption of these three things in the amount that is happening right now is the greatest downfall of men in this modern day. And so we, if we can regain control in those three areas, food, how much of it do you really need? And the quality, like how high quality can you get it to be? So those are two powerful questions. How much of this food do I really need, and what is the highest quality I can get that changes your nutrition right away? Okay. Yes, it's deeper, there's more nuance to it, but just ask those two questions. Uh, when it comes to information, is this the here's a powerful question. Is this relevant to the mission I'm on? And if you say yes, that it is, that's fine. The next question is how much of this do I really need before I can just take action? Because a lot of watching another YouTube video, again, maybe it's relevant to your mission, but do you need another YouTube video? Scrolling through Instagram one more time, uh, listening to the news again. It's there's just so much, and it it becomes this cycle of consumption of information. And then you're overwhelmed at the end of the day. You just want to sit back on the on the couch and let it all go and maybe numb out a little bit with some alcohol or drugs or whatever it may be. Um, and then other people's energy. Man, I see I see men get stuck so much thinking that they just have to spend time with certain people, either because they're family, because they've been friends for a long time, or because, you know, they work together. We always have a choice on how we operate and to set bold boundaries for what's the most important to us. And if there are people in our lives that do not add value and that you don't feel the energy to add value back to them, it's okay to spend less time with those people. I'm not saying I'm not encouraging anybody to cut anybody out. Sometimes that needs to happen, but this is all about managing how much time you spend with people who may be taking energy away from you. Um, and being real honest about that. So food, information, other people's energy, the consumption is what is the biggest downfall of men in this modern day.

SPEAKER_01 28:31

Yeah, this um way that you describe this, it goes really well with what you're talking about with removing stuff from your backpack, you know, like they're actually in Earth, maybe not in space, but in earth, we are space and time limited in some ways. And things can't really come in if the backpack is like over full, you know, like you want more nourishing relationships. You want a work that gives you purpose and satisfaction, but all of your time is going to porn or Instagram or YouTube or overeating or whatever it's going to. There just simply isn't the space to create the life you're desiring. And sometimes, you know, I talk about how your life is just a math equation. Like it really is as simple as that. This plus this equals this. Sometimes there's things we're not seeing. So it can be hard, it can be a harder problem to solve for some people. But if you haven't worked with the consumption problem yet and you haven't identified how you want to spend time nourishing these five areas of life that you mentioned, like that is quite a simple way to put it for people to really be honest with themselves, take this responsibility that you're talking about of like, oh, I say that I want financial and relational success, but three hours of my day every single day is going to this place that isn't supporting any of those things. It can be challenging to build community or to find the partner that you want to be with, but it's really hard to do that if you're not leaving your house. You know, there's like a little bit of differences in the way that you are saying that you want something versus devoting your life to actually creating it. Um, so I love, I love the simplicity of this. Um and, you know, as I'm I'm talking, this is a little bit of a topic switch, but um I know that a lot of the things that men seek is this like intimate partnership. And a lot of times it's the thing that they sort of like blame their unhappiness on. Like if only I had a partner and wasn't single, or if only that person didn't break up with me, or if only my wife would X, Y, Z, you know, however they want to project it onto that orientation of partnership, it often goes there. Um, and taking responsibility for life is one way to create different relationships and more desirable relationships. But the reason I'd love to talk to you about intimate partnership is because something that really struck me in our initial call. And whenever you speak, is just like when you say, Oh, my queen, it's not just like the word. Like people will use that word on Instagram sometimes, but there's like a big energy that like ripples out from you when you talk about the woman that you're with. And I don't know if I have a specific question about this, but I'd love to hear whatever you want to share about like developing partnership that is solid and sacred and last, because I can hear just in your voice that you have some codes.

SPEAKER_00 31:35

Yeah. I love that you bring this up. Uh so me and my queen, her name is Anna, by the way. Uh so we have been together 11 years today. So um I'm on this podcast on the day we're shooting this. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And um so she came into the relationship with two kids. I came in with two kids, and um, you know, we've, you know, her her youngest was 11 at the time that we got together. So when I came in to her life, uh I had to figure out how to be stepdad, because my both of my kids were uh grown and out of the house. And so uh stepped back into a dad role. And that was that was a big decision. And what I figured out was conscious communication is the biggest tool uh for longevity in any relationship, but definitely in an intimate relationship. So I got to work really figuring out like how do how do I consciously communicate in a way that is a way of leadership, uh also expresses empathy, uh also has bold boundaries, um and and also just keeps keeps things as light as they can be. And so one of the codes that we came up with together is most shit doesn't matter. And when I say that, it's it's this idea that I don't care how she does the dishes or where she places the dishes in the dishwasher. I don't care like how she organizes her makeup and uh what the side of her closet looks like. That's not my business. I don't care about that, right? Now, my 18-year-old self would have maybe looked at the closet and been like, can you can you like organize yourself a little bit better and and put it over? That's where problems come in. Because why am I trying, like her personality put that closet together the way it is. And now I'm saying that's not good enough. You see, so this is where these little micro uh adjustments or micro words that men use that can feel like, hey, I I was just letting her know. Well, it goes a lot deeper than that. What you're letting her know has roots. And if you don't know how to communicate with the roots, then it's best not to say anything. Um so that's the uh that's the code, conscious communication. And then there's also things we put in place. Like no matter how long we've been together, we date each other. And I do my best every morning. Uh, this is part of my my identity and part of what I write in the mornings is I do my best to tap into, man, look at this woman that I'm seeing for the first time. And I want to treat her like that. Like I want to see her, I want to I want to date her, I'll re-engage her that way. Um And there's something very powerful about a man being a leader in a way that isn't an authority over her. And so, and that takes work. In my first relationship, in my first marriage, I was married for 14 years and and that that didn't work out. I got divorced. I was an authority. I was trying to be an authority because I didn't heard a man supposed to be a leader, I heard a man supposed to do this and this and this, and I'm like, well, that sounds like authority. Let me be that. And that doesn't work out very long because that leads a woman to feeling unsafe, um to feeling uh not nurtured, not taken care of. And so after I got the divorce, I spent four years doing deep work on myself and letting and creating a situation where I said, the next relationship I get into, I'm going to be whole so that there is nothing for me to try to transform in the woman I'm going to be with. She can be all of who she is. And so that's a key piece. If there's, if there's any, if you're a man listens to this, if there's any piece of you that doesn't feel whole, get to work on those pieces because it changes everything. Um if you because what I identified was a lot of the arguments and things that happened in my past relationships were pieces of me that weren't taken care of. Right? They didn't have anything to do with the other person. They are sure they had their work to do, but that's their responsibility. There were pieces of me that needed to be taken care of so that I could communicate, so I could show up a certain way. And so this comes back to that radical responsibility. Um Yeah. I guess so the main code, most shit doesn't matter, and that applies to a lot of stuff. And uh just keep the communication open. And also learn when it's when it's time to be quiet. That's okay too.

SPEAKER_06 36:55

Yeah. What you said about in your first marriage wanting to be the authority because that's what you had learned that men were supposed to do. I think that's one of the biggest issues that we have in our culture, in our society, in our government as a whole. And it's created a picture of masculinity that that many people label toxic. Uh, that men are authoritative, domineering, controlling. It's my way or the highway. And I agree with you that all of that stuff comes from insecurity. It comes from approving. It comes from uh, you can't see these parts of me that I don't want to look at either. Um, and you mentioned this healing journey that you went on for four years afterwards. And beginning that journey is really hard. Like it's not that most guys do this intentionally. They just don't know that they've suppressed these parts so far that that they're now operating outside of their control. They're operating behind the curtain where they're actually more powerful, where they're actually leading you to yell at your wife or whatever it is. So, kind of what was the trailhead for you besides the, you know, the pain and the heartbreak of the divorce that allows you to actually see these pieces that have been stuffed so deep?

SPEAKER_00 38:20

Oh there was this moment after getting the divorce that I felt darkness come over me. Um and the darkness was it was wrapped up in questions like Did I try everything I could? Am I still a good father? Um Am I a good man? Uh what are my parents gonna think? What are my clients gonna think when I let them know that I'm getting that I got this divorce? Because I hate it the the entire time. And so through these these questions, there was this cycle of this doom that I felt. And it led to it went on for about I would say three, four months. And it led to this moment where I was sitting on the edge of my bed one day, and I asked myself the question what would it be like if I just if I didn't if I wasn't living anymore? And so there was this hopelessness. This is what hopelessness is. Okay and so I'm home by myself, dark house. Um, I had had some destructive patterns for a few weeks. Um, so it led to this night of me sitting on the edge of my bed. And I reached over in my nightstand and I grabbed my pistol that was in there and I set it right next to me, just so it would be closer in case I made the decision. And I was sitting there going through my thoughts, and I reached down with my right hand and put my hand on the pistol, and then all of a sudden, there was like this light that opened up, and there was this word. The word just started floating down out of the sky, down through my head, and it landed in my heart. And the word was gratitude. And as I'm going through this, this this is a this is where spirit-led became very, very vivid to me. As I'm going through this, I had two daughters at the time, I could see their eyes looking at me. They weren't physically there in the house with me. I could just, I could see in this vision that I'm going through. And I was like, okay. I I see it. I see it. The suspension of my own ego and pride in the situation is gonna be really important if I wanna figure out what it's like to actually be the man that I know I'm being called to be. And so that moment over 15 years ago led to uh the depth, the beginning of the depth that I operate in today, right? The roots that are in the ground today. And um now I'm thankful for it. I wouldn't change it and I want to share it as much as possible because I know there's plenty of men who go through these dark times where the hopelessness feels real. It feels very real at the time. And um the chaos is real. And it's nice to be able to have someone through a conversation like this who maybe can just lift your head out of the chaos just a little bit and say, Hey, look at this. Look at this thing that you haven't been able to see because you've been buried under the weight of all the stuff. And maybe just that moment, or you know, in that case, in that case, these words, maybe these words are what one man listening to this podcast needs. Um that you have options. You can start to create your own system and slowly start to align your life with the things that you know you want.

SPEAKER_01 42:22

Thank you for sharing your story. And I just want to create some space for those words. Like anyone listening to this, you have options and you can align your actions to the life that you want. And the life that you are living is like such a it's like you had things to be grateful for. Then that's the vision of your daughters, and um just the awareness of like um the ability that you had to, okay, I can choose to suspend this feeling that I have to create something differently. Even even the awareness of sovereignty in a moment like that is huge. Um and then also because of that choice, you stayed, you're still here, you know. You have connection with your daughters, you have connection with your stepkids and your beautiful Anna. And also you're impacting lives all the time, you know. And I'm sure there's a bunch of other beautiful things about your life that I don't know or that we haven't gotten the chance to talk about yet. But those moments, if we so choose, you know, we we talk about that when there's an initiation offered, you have to choose to take it. When there's a door offered to walk through, you get to choose which door to walk through. And because you chose life and not only life, but a life where you were devoted to creating something new, um, you have it. And I think that's a really important. thing to share when stories like this are shared is it wasn't just, oh yeah, I didn't, I didn't actually shoot the gun. You know, it's because I didn't do that, I get to experience life so much more. You get to experience life so much more. Um and anyone who chooses that same route of taking the initiation to reclaim responsibility for their life and create something different also gets to have something more not because you're special or because when I didn't follow through on stuff like that, I'm special, but but just because that's how life works when you choose to reclaim sovereignty and you choose to choose life every day, then you get to have a life over which you're sovereign. Just that math equation that we were talking about.

SPEAKER_00 44:44

No doubt. No doubt and the math like you're saying, like the math is simple. Um the the the work is is where the challenge is. And so anybody listening to this, I want I just want them to understand well I think I can speak for both of us. We're not minimizing the fact that real things are happening in your life. We're just encouraging that through it all there is a choice and at some point change happens when we choose to m to take the choice. And so that's that's what we're encouraging here.

SPEAKER_06 45:20

Yeah. Yeah I've heard stories like you too many times of having a hand on the gun, of having the rope around the tree branch. For me it was the freeway turning and me thinking I could just not turn my steering wheel and launch my car off the side of the freeway, right? And uh sometimes that's the choice that men make. But whenever I've heard those stories from men who have had the grace to make the other decision it's all I'm all I always respond with awe because those guys are are always doing great things in their lives, for their families, because you know for anybody that's there, there is a future where you're not there, but you can't get there remaining the same man who got there. It requires change. And so that that that moment where you feel like you're reduced to absolutely nothing like you can get out of it. And sometimes it takes picking up the phone when the phone feels like the heaviest thing in the world you know it feels like putting down the bottle of a substance when it feels like that's the only thing that's got your back really hard thing to do but it's I hope that we can share more of these stories to to broadcast that that there is another there is another feature.

SPEAKER_01 46:56

So um I have a sort of interesting question for you I think um but since you are working with different men at these different phases of life and you just talked about like a really pivotal moment in yours a lot of what we do and definitely like what I go really intensely into into with different people is um like inner child work. And I was wondering if you would be willing to share with us what you would share with a younger version of you who maybe like thought he was the man and also what you would share with a younger version of you who thought nothing of himself. And if you could maybe describe those those parts so we have a little picture.

SPEAKER_00 47:41

Okay. What would I share with the version of me the younger version of me who thought he was the man huh I like real talk so I would tell that young man first of all slow down slow down that's number one because my younger self was moving fast to be real about it there's a world out here that's gonna eat you up if you choose to continue operating this way. And while you think you're the man, you're gonna run up against something pretty soon that's gonna show you that you're not and that thing you're gonna run up against is going to be necessary. So my prayer would be that you have people around you who will let you take that fall without it killing you. Because that's gonna be the point where you're going to change the most now it doesn't have to get to the point and this is still me talking to him it doesn't have to get to the point where it's called a rock bottom or you're in the pit. You can make a choice right now to recognize the direction of your actions and use the wisdom of those who's come before you to start to course correct the choice is yours. So that would be my conversation with my younger self as I said that that that thought he was the man. And then what was the other one?

SPEAKER_01 49:26

The uh the man who was hopeless yeah the version um that was hopeless or just feeling really insecure or you know whichever whichever version of you you feel called to but connect with them and then yeah same thing.

SPEAKER_04 49:50

Yeah to my younger version that had experienced just enough life to feel hopeless and distracted what I would tell you is life is about the daily war and war means win against resistance.

SPEAKER_00 50:21

And if you can't be a man that understands that there is a very healthy and peaceful daily war that you must engage with then you will suffer forever. And the reason I say this is because the hardships that you're going through right now are necessary. They're pregnant with lessons that you need in this moment. So as hard as it may be if you can start to just pull lesson number one and start to take a small amount of action on it you will start to gain momentum toward this man that you know you're being called to be if you choose to continue circulating through these defeating thoughts that's a choice and it's important for you to understand that you are making that choice. Just be conscious about it.

SPEAKER_06 51:17

So you can choose to tap into this new energy of small action which I call reps or you can stay in the chaos and consciously make choices that don't serve your life my biggest encouragement for you is to understand though that there is no victim there's a man making choices and you get to be that man you're speaking to me right now and what I'm what's giving me life is uh you know when it feels hopeless when it feels like nothing is happening the way that you want according to your preferences um that instead of uh telling yourself stories about why it's so hard get on your hands and knees and start looking for the lessons and even if you know the money's not coming in the results aren't happening the relationship isn't coming in for you if you can learn what that period is teaching you, you're being provided for I'm being provided for right it's you know it would be you know kind of a red alert to be hopeless and and not be aware of any lessons. Now now that would feel that would feel like despair you know and yeah I think that's it's really powerful that you know what you want might not be coming but the lessons you need are yeah um close?

SPEAKER_01 52:52

Yeah. Okay so we have two questions that we ask at the end of every podcast. The first is just a little bit of um homework for the listeners to do. Part of our mission is like we don't want this to just be some more information that people consume and do nothing with. We want it to be something that if the men listen to this podcast and do everything from it, they could actually live a different life just from this podcast alone. So with that being said, if you were going to give the men listening one thing to focus on or do, um what would that be?

SPEAKER_00 53:35

Every man has a start to his day. Whether you work overnight and you sleep all day and you wake up at 6 p.m that's a start to your day or you just have whatever a normal schedule would be the start to your day is crucial. And so I want you to create what's called a mastery morning and a mastery morning does three things it gets you three quick wins you get a physical win you get a mental win you get a spiritual win so a physical physical win could be something like doing some mobility work or going for a morning walk or getting your actual full workout in some kind of physical win your mental win could be uh some writing that you do or gently engaging with some kind of a book that is relevant to your mission uh five or ten pages or five or ten minutes. Uh nothing big just enough to get a mental win and then a spiritual win could be maybe you writing in your journal or you saying your prayer that matters to you. Either way the mission is to get your mastery morning physical win mental win spiritual win before you ever have contact with another human. Now for some of you you have a schedule that allows you to have a mastery morning that might be two and a half, three hours long. I am in a position right now where I get to lengthen out my mastery morning as long as I want to so I take my time with it. A lot of you may be in a place where you only have 10 or 15 minutes and that is fine. What I encourage you to do is write out two versions of your mastery morning your ideal mastery morning which would be your longer version for when you have time for that and then your express mastery morning for those times where you don't have uh as much time but your non-negotiable is to get this mastery morning in. And when you do this, it's a tool that you now put in your toolbox and no matter where you might go in the world or what you're going through, that mastery morning is there with you. And that start to your day is the start of that identity of who do I choose to be today? Without it, you're probably gonna do what most men are doing right now, which is existing through another day and then waiting to get to the end of it to numb it out. And uh you're too good for that.

SPEAKER_01 56:15

Yeah. Yeah thank you for this I want to add a little something just um from the the female voice on this because for men who are in partnership or really I mean the same thing occurs with women as well but when people are in partnership sometimes starting a morning practice before you connect with anyone is there's an excuse about the partnership or it's hard to do because we're like cuddling in the morning and I don't want to get out of bed or XYZ and you know this can be something that you do not not with your partner but with them. Like both of you can start doing this. You know like we say good morning and then we don't talk until we're done with our morning practice and sometimes it's 20 minutes and sometimes it's a couple hours, you know? Beautiful and for people who are maybe in a partnership where you know the other person isn't on board to do it, you can still do it and specifically from the masculine lens, it is one way to start embodying or and connecting with this masculine energy to create the boundary that this is actually how I'm starting my day no matter what. I love you so much and I must do this for myself for us.

SPEAKER_00 57:27

And so yeah just by conscious communication.

SPEAKER_01 57:30

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 57:31

Yeah yeah you so you you get it you get it that's it that's exactly it. And one of the things we have to let me change my language one of the things I'm gonna invite men to do is be very conscious about the language you use. And so like you were saying you know oh I can't do that because of this just cut that language out altogether all the all across your life because there is always a solution. Every piece of resistance that we experience in life has a solution connected to it.

SPEAKER_06 58:06

And we only earn the right to source that solution when we stop long enough to say how can I be responsible for this and these these simple things again not easy there's these simple things change lives in in a matter of seconds because you're just choosing to be this yeah to your point it's like as a man is changing his lifestyle the woman in his life can can challenge that a bit and be the temptress that says let's just stay in bed it's it's warm here. Right. And the woman who really wants that isn't your woman but the woman who's just testing you to see if you're strong enough to hold your spine that's to make you stronger right and so it probably will take a conscious conversation to say hey these are the changes that I'm making in my life this is why it's important to me this is why I feel like it's important to us and it would mean a lot to me if you supported me in that and yeah on Sundays yeah we can roll around in the sheets a little bit right takes the conversation. And if she's open and in that conversation then like you know you got a shot. Um and I also want to speak again to the importance of the ideal morning and the uh the express morning I call it a ceiling and a floor because men can be so black and white and they they want to do the best thing right and then when they can't have that ideal morning they're just like fuck it I'm not gonna do any of that my whole day is shocked right and it's like most mornings I I can spend the time that I want but if we got a fight at 6 a.m I might take three breaths give some gratitude to God and get my bags you know but it's like I did that I continued to make an investment uh in the promises that I've made to myself and the commitments that I've made and keeping those over time without missing is incredibly uh life giving it builds confidence and and the best way to do that is to have a floor is to have an express that you know no matter what's going on in your life, you can still do it.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:17

Yes. I love that you brought that up because the only way to stop breaking promises to ourselves is to have versions of things and to have that's how you build in grace. Right? There's no grace without that if I say oh I only work out for two hours every day. Well like that's great and everything, but that's not realistic, right? Or or my mastery morning is three hours every morning. I got to get all these things done. I do this for 20 minutes I do this. Just stop just stop with that because what happens is there's this moment where you break a promise to yourself and then like you said all of a sudden it's like well the hell with it I'm just not gonna do anything. And that turns into years of not doing the thing and then coming back and being like, oh I just want to get back to where I was so it um yeah I I agree with everything you said. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:15

Yeah loosen the grip but stay in the pocket. Stay in the pocket stay in it. Um our last question for you uh part of our mission with this podcast is to get rid of that story of where are all the good men right and so we we always ask our guests uh about other men that you that are that support you or that you look up to or have learned from who our audience can Google or read their book or look at their programs or that we can even have on the podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:47

So who comes to mind when you think of those men oh the first guy that comes to mind is my friend Stefanos Stefanos Sefandos.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:59

Do y'all know Steph it's so funny our last guest we put out the episode last uh last Sunday and as he was leaving he was like I gotta connect you with Steph.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:10

They're actually neighbors so you're the second guest in a row to bring uh yeah he um he's he's been a a great friend of mine for about six years. Uh we're now business partners um and uh he's just an excellent man. Um he has a story to tell uh he wrote a book called uh Tuned In and Turned On and gets he you know talks a lot about the relationship side of life and so I just feel it'd be valuable because he's had so much experience uh in his own life and through those that he's coached over the last what two decades um and he poured a lot of it into that book but him sharing what he can on your podcast would be valuable.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:59

Wonderful um awesome Donovan uh I've loved this conversation personally for me what I'm navigating right now and I know the audience is going to get a ton out of it too. So we appreciate you so much. And uh where can people find you and learn more?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:18

Thank you guys I appreciate it so much. And it's real simple to find me uh lifeisreps.com there's nothing for sale there. I have a a newsletter that you can jump on called the Daily War. Uh and it's not a daily newsletter it's just the understanding that we are going through a daily war and it can be peaceful um but it is necessary and uh what we talk about in that newsletter is uh creating connected power in your your mind your money your muscle your mastery your masculinity and I reveal some of the systems through the newsletter so lifeisreps.com and I really appreciate uh you two for having me on and I appreciate the work that you're doing and the real conversations that you're willing to have so that the next man listening to this can uh be a little more elevated in the way that he lives.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:21

Yes thanks so much Donna thank you thank you