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Monte Carlo to Marlow
How to Boost GLP-1 Naturally: Mike Wakeman on Sustaining Metabolic Health
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Part 2 of our conversation with pharmacist and researcher Mike Wakeman.
Exploring Natural Strategies for Weight Loss, Micronutrient Support, and Longevity with Michael Wakeman
In this episode, Michael Wakeman shares his insights into how natural compounds, dietary protocols, and supplements can support weight management, hormone regulation, and overall health. We delve into the science behind polyphenols, the impact of medications, and holistic approaches for well-being.Main Topics
The role of polyphenols and natural enzymes in regulating weight-related hormones (GLP-1, GIP, DPP4)
The development of a natural weight management supplement mimicking some effects of drugs like Ozempic
The importance of muscle mass retention during weight loss and strategies for metabolic health
The significance of a balanced diet, exercise, and stress management in sustainable weight control
The impact of dietary fats, especially omega-3s and their sources, on overall health
Sleep optimization through magnesium, botanicals, and traditional remedies
The potential benefits and considerations of supplements like metformin, berberine, and herbal extracts in longevity and metabolic health
The environmental and sourcing considerations for fish oils and botanicals
Mike is the science behind the supplement range https://everanutrition.co.uk/
Connect with Michael Wakeman:
Keywords: Ozempic, weight loss drugs, nutrition, supplements, balanced diet, longevity
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Hello, welcome to Monte Carlo Tamalo. We've we've only really touched upon skin and polyphenols, and we were also going to look at talking about the weight loss drugs and how popular they are and the supplement that you've created which helps people when they're coming off of a weight loss drug. We discussed that, you know, as soon as when you are on something, it's great if it is helping you lose weight, if you've had issues before, but there is a you know, you do lose your muscle mass, and obviously if people are eating less, we're guessing that probably they're getting less nutrients as well.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. No, you you're 100% right. So when I started looking at the um weight loss drugs, it made me realize that that there are compounds in food, polyphenols, again, but there are polyphenols that regulate the um the they're called incretine hormones. So GLP1 and GIP are the things that induce satiety in the diet. The thing is that these molecules are very short-lived in the gut. So they're released, that they soon, and they they're soon removed uh in the gut. Obviously, these medications have been, the peptides have been slightly modified when you inject them to um mean that the the half-life of these of these compounds is prolonged in the body. But the reason that these compounds, well one of the reasons that these compounds are in the gut, the naturally produced compounds in the gut, have a half-life is there's another enzyme which breaks them down, and that's called DPP4. Um that's the reason that these molecules have a short um half-life in the gut. So when I looked at the GLP1, GIP, like the Mundjaros, that um all those types of drugs, that's the way they were. They don't have any effect on DPP4. So I looked at the polyphenols that might have an effect in terms of upregulating GIP and GLP and identifying what those were from the scientific literature. But then it was one of the, it was a bit, I keep going back to these serendipitous like things. It was like, oh, there's this other enzyme called DPP4 that breaks them down. And when I started researching what it might be that inhibited DPP4, I found that there are other polyphenols in foods that actually, some of them were the same ones that upregulated GLP and GIP, but they also inhibited DPP4. So it was a case of, well, let's put those in and let's put some of the other compounds that we haven't got that don't upregulate GLP1 and GIP, and put those in the DPP4 inhibitor box. Um, and then it's like, well, those are the things that uh that that the pharmaceuticals are acting upon. And what else can we put in there? So I put in glucaman from conjac jelly, which is an at a European Food Standards Agency health claim around it being beneficial for weight management. So that induced, it's a gel that when you take it, so that the product I produce is a drink, a powder that you produce a drink, you put it in water. But when you take it, the the conjac jelly swells in your in your stomach, so it makes you feel fuller. So you've got effectively a natural azempic accelerator, if you like, enhancer. And then, but also the other thing that you pulled up, you picked up on is that a lot of people who are losing or trying to lose weight reduce the amount of food that they they consume, and so they're going to be very often di deficient, or they're gonna have deficits in micronutrients as well. So I put micronutrients in there. Some of the things like chromium, for example, have a beneficial effect on blood glucose anyway. So that's the that's the formula. I started working on this last year, and so it was like, oh well, there's a natural like a Zempic alternative for people who don't want to take it, can't afford it, or whatever. It's not going to be as dramatic as a Zempic, but nevertheless, it's it's something that has a sound rationale. And then in January, um, there was this BMJ paper published which demonstrated that people who were on these weight loss drugs, um when they stopped taking them, basically within a year, they put on all the weight that they lost, um, which is a bit defeatist in a way. And people tend to think that that's down to them, and they don't realise that these drugs actually they don't treat the underlying causes, the underlying metabolic processes that are responsible for weight gain and weight loss. Um, again, it was like, well, here's a here's a situation where people could actually use this Goline Plus the product I developed as an alternative to introduce it into their regimen to help them to control, not regain the weight that they've lost. Yeah, but one of the things that became apparent when I was looking into it, and I've just published a paper on this, is that with people who are on these weight loss uh drugs tend to lose about 25 to 30 percent of their weight as muscle mass. Muscle is a really highly metabolic um component within your body. So if you lose muscle mass, you lose mitochondrial function, and that means that your body isn't as adept as it could be in terms of handling fats and fat burning.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, if you haven't got as much muscle, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So they haven't got any. So what happens is that they stop taking these medications, they haven't got, they've lost all this muscle mass, so they haven't got the capacity when and they the the hunger pangs come back very, very quickly, reverting back to where they were. Exactly. And but they the body hasn't got the capacity to handle the carbs and the fats that they're now consuming as it would have done previously. So one of the things that so I've developed a protocol that not only says take this product, because I never believe take this product, you know, it's it's going to solve all your all your problems. It's a holistic approach. So it's about integrating things like aerobic and anaerobic exercise into enhance that muscle mass that you've lost. Also, about about having a healthy diet, you know, having a balanced diet. And a sort of the other thing that's really important is having three meals a day, because that does, you know, you don't then start snacking. If you have this routine, then your body gets used to that sort of grill-in, left-in, uh PYY sort of response that that occurs.
SPEAKER_01So I've heard that um you should leave four hours of not eating between meals. Does that sound yeah?
SPEAKER_00So that's what I'm saying. Have a yeah, have a a have a breakfast, have a lunch, and have a dinner, but it being a balanced type of approach, especially with high protein, because you're wanting to um basically build up your muscle mass again. Yeah. So you need high levels of protein in there. But the other side of it is it isn't just about eating well, it's also because these people are now they're concerned about putting their weight on it's stress. So the protocol that I've developed isn't just about take this product, it's about exercising, it's about, and here's a a dietary regime over 30 days, providing people with recipes. Um, you know, this is the amount of protein that you're gonna get from this, from your breakfast, lunch, and and dinner um a day, and this is the number of calories you're going to get. Um, but also it's about incorporating things like breathing exercises into this protocol.
SPEAKER_01Cortisol levels.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, controlling your cortisol levels and controlling your stress um and learning how to manage that it and it will be a very stressful process. So it's trying to develop a holistic approach. Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And when you uh talk about protein there, because obviously protein is a huge buzzword, isn't it? Now, you know, we're especially, I guess I'm more conscious of how it's being sort of root and flagged for women of a certain age, don't lose your protein. What do you think? That some people say it's a gram of protein per pound you are, or is there any kind of formula that you think people should follow in terms of how much protein they should eat per day?
SPEAKER_00It is, it is, yeah. So my feeling is that if you it you can take protein shakes, obviously, of things like that, but you can it's it's with all of these things, you can get, and I hate to use a balanced diet, it's the most misused term ever. That's why I'm saying I've tried to produce um recipes that enable people to get the protein that they need, and it isn't personalised and it never can be. I mean, I I could develop an app maybe, but I've tried to make it as as broad as I possibly can in terms of protein intake. But yeah, you're right. That the protein intake should be titrated to your body mass. It also depends upon and and and in this context, body mass, uh, sorry, how much um muscle mass you've lost when you're trying to regain it.
SPEAKER_01Is there a way that you can um look at how much muscle you've lost, or is it just physically looking at yourself?
SPEAKER_00The the article I've I've published is around practitioners, and yeah, it's it's in those sorts of situations. I think it's working with a professional who knows what they're doing as well. Um, because your body your body does change, you know, your body shape changes. You talked about with menopause and things like that. There's all sorts of body changes that that are going to occur. I it was it was quite funny. Um so about a year ago, I was invited to a menopause conference in Greece, and I it was it was at gynecologists, I'm not gonna stop them from prescribing HRT and everything. So I thought, um, I know what I'll do. I'll look at the it's the Mediterranean diet. I'll look at the menopause of women in Greece and what their diet looks like, because they're going to be, I was like, they're gonna be consuming a Mediterranean diet, they're not. It was absolutely amazing. They they were eating a Western diet, and it was just like, I was thinking, so it does come back to this sort of you know, processed food, ages, and all that stuff.
SPEAKER_01You'd think it was all you know, lovely seasonal fruit and veg and olive oil, but no, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And if you think this is what people who live in on a Mediterranean, potentially a Mediterranean diet are eating compared to what we're eating here. And the other thing is that obviously is menopause is is a very highly oxidative stress uh well, I'm not saying condition, but process that the body goes through. Yeah. So you do need to have a a a really good like medi typical Mediterranean diet to help to control that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I didn't take HRT actually, and I did have my hormone levels tested when I thought maybe should I do bio-identicals, but um I they said that it w it wasn't kind of worth it. And I do put it down to the fact that I think I don't drink, I don't smoke, quite conscious of healthy fats and flax seeds. I'm not saying diet alone cures everything, but I do think a lot of women do still drink a lot, I think, as they get older. That's not very good for the body to to digest. It's you have got to change your lifestyle, haven't you, really? To listen to the city.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but the other side of it is is that it, you know, it's what was your lifestyle be like before you went become pre-menopausal, perimenopausal, and post-menopausal. And if you've been, and I've some of the some of the work that I've done, um, which going back now to the situation about the medications and things like that, the pell really does deplete the body of so many micronutrients. And obviously, if people are on HRT as well, then they could have a whole lifetime of a bad diet, plus medications that are going to compromise their micronutrient status. So then when they get to menopause, it's like you're not going to reverse 30 years' worth of micronutrient deficiencies just by changing your diet when you become pre-menopause or perimenopause or post-menopause.
SPEAKER_01Or going back to supplements, I know it's hard to say one size fits all, but you know, when you started doing your research into fatty acids, there's another thing I've heard that you know we shouldn't be taking salmon fish oil, we should be taking the DHA, the vegan version, because of microplastics and fish. What's your opinion on that? Because I take a I take an omega-369 and I take fatty acids daily. One's got flaxseeds and one's got fish oil. What do you think of one versus?
SPEAKER_00I think I think from that perspective, I think that um, I mean, I did a lot of work with krill oil, for example. That there's still a lot of adverse publicity about kryl oil. So with krill oil, as opposed to the fatty acids being in triglyceride format, they're um in a phospholipid format, so they're more bioavailable. So I think that there is a difference between the sources of essential fatty acids.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Obviously, the flaxseeds got a lot of alpha linalinic acid, which basically is poorly converted into EPA and DHA. I think the algal oils that you described are good for people who don't want to take fish oils and like you talk about microplastics. The other side of it is that obviously with fish farming and things like antibiotics, things like that. Yeah. But they are expensive. Um the price is coming down now, which is good, but they are still very expensive for the average consumer who may not have the amount of disposable income that you know to buy the premium price algal oils, um, then I'd still go with uh an anchovy oil or something like that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I take I can never say the word astazanthin, I take that.
SPEAKER_00Astaxanthin, yeah. Never say that. But the whole thing about the whole thing about the pink in the salmon is that that so that you know they feed the salmon with Astaxanthin to make it pink.
SPEAKER_01Well, it's like the flamingos, isn't it? The same thing when they're it's a it's a whole full circle, isn't it? Because then they're eating the fish that is pink.
SPEAKER_00The pinkness to is is is chemically they they feed it into the feed that they use. And also the other side of it is so this is another area that I've looked at is that sorry, I'm rabbiting on and out.
SPEAKER_01No, no, it's all good, it's all good.
SPEAKER_00So the whole thing is that because so a lot of salmon farms they feed their salmon, they used to historically salmon are carnivorous, so they will eat other fish. So the levels of EPA and DHA that were in salmon historically would have been the 18-12 ratio or whatever it is that you you would not normally associate it with well, not with salmon necessarily, but with other fish. What happens is that because fish meal has become so expensive, the fish farmers are now using omega-6 fatty acids to fatten their salmon on. So the fish aren't getting the levels of omega-3s that they would do if they were living as wild salmon. So they're now so that the whole balance between the omega-3 and six ratios has changed in terms of farmed fish versus wild fish, yeah. Um, which is another reason why it's important to look at the source of of the fish oil that you're using, which is why I'm saying, you know, I would say use anchovies or something like that rather than salmon. Because salmon, everybody thinks that all fish oils are the same. Salmon, if you think of an 1812 um fish oil, EPA and DHA that comes from anchovies, salmon is probably eight, is probably eight and ten.
SPEAKER_01And so let's talk about magnesium as well and sleep, because that's another one of the areas and products that you've produced. And I always I tell everyone, like I like I know, but I say to lots of people you should take magnesium. But it's kind of feels to me as a nation that uh lots of people are deficient in it. And this is one of the questions I was gonna say to you. I know everybody is different, but are there things like taking vitamin D and B12 in the morning and magnesium at night? Are there things that you think that people should try and take if they feel they need it? I mean, I know people that don't sleep and then sleep better when they do take magnesium.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. So the the whole thing about magnesium is that 98% of your magnesium is in your bones. And so if you measure your magnesium levels in serum, it's not a true reflection of the magnesium levels that you've got in your body. So a lot of the the tests that are available that say they got to assess your magnesium levels aren't that accurate. Uh so that's the first thing about it. The second thing is you, as you said, a lot of people are deficient or have deficits in magnesium. That seems to well, if you look at the dietary intakes, it's quite low. So that's something that we know irrespective of taking magnesium levels in serum and things like that. So the intake generally in the UK is quite low. The there's really good data that demonstrates that things like folic acid, magnesium, vitamin D, if people are low in those sorts of vitamins and minerals, then they tend to have worse sleep. I'm not saying it's causative, but it's an association between it. Um so if you can correct that, then there's studies that demonstrate that people who are deficient in vitamin D sleep worse, people who are and and with magnesium and folate. The other thing is that those um things like magnesium upregulate melatonin production. Um, and there's also a number of botanicals that do that as well. And the whole thing about melatonin is uh I'm did I did a lot of work with melatonin a few years ago, and I was involved with um the registration of a melatonin product as you know, it's it's available as a as a licensed pharmaceutical now.
SPEAKER_01But not in the UK.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it is doctors can prescribe.
SPEAKER_01Oh, but not off because I know it off the shelf in America and in France. You can try it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00We yeah, so basically, melatonin, what people don't realise is the half-life of melatonin is 45 minutes. So if you take it at 11 o'clock at night, it's virtually gone by 12:30. Um peak melatonin, the peak of melatonin production in the body occurs at 3 a.m. So by supplementing it, you're not going to increase the levels of melatonin in your body when you when it's maximum required level. So by using things like vitamin D, folic acid, and things like uh a number of other botanicals, you can you can upregulate the production of vitamin D when you need it most.
SPEAKER_01And are you when you say botanicals, are you talking about things like lemon balm and chamomile and tart cherry?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, things like that and tart cherry, zissiphus, which I use in our sleep product, which is um Chinese date extract, that's been used for 2,000 years. I love using Avidic, Chinese traditional remedies in these, because we've neglected them for so long, and they've got such a strong tradition of usage in these types of medicinal approaches. And one of the things is that people have always sort of denigrated them is well, the the literature's not in English, so it can't be of any use whatsoever because it's not in English, and one of the things that I love now, and this is I know it's very topical now, but one of the nations that has done a lot to elevate the use of traditional botanicals is Iran. Because they've been, and I'm not promoting the Iran regime originally. Because of the embargoes on medication, these guys have had to go back to looking at what they traditionally used in botanicals and all the rest of it. And they've identified the active ingredients in the botanicals that are responsible for like in saffron, for example. You know, so they're doing a lot of novel research now looking at how things like saffron, which I love, can improve things like um depression and elevate mood and things like that. So they're doing a lot of double-blind placebo controlled trials now, looking at standardized saffron extracts as the Chinese are doing as well with their Chinese date extracts and all the rest of it. It's in it's in English.
SPEAKER_01It's in English. Yeah, it's funny because we can translate things, can't we, if we want to?
SPEAKER_00I know we can now. Yeah. I um but the thing is with these traditional remedies, it was and this comes back to, and I hate to go on, but you know, if you look at these polyphenols we've talked about, traditional Chinese remedies, they they would say use an orange peel. And they wouldn't say, Oh, just use orange peel. They'd say use orange peel from this area here versus that area there. And if you do that, if you think about, you know, I said about these compounds needed to be in the production of them needed to be induced, then if you've got a hot, arid environment and a wet, moist environment, you're going to get different compounds produced in oranges over here compared to over there.
SPEAKER_01Well, it's like matcha tea, isn't it? It's from the leaves that are underneath rather than the one. Exactly. I'm a big believer in trying to find something natural if you can. That forming has Been something that a lot of people are taking that don't have diabetes, and there's the berberine, which is the kind of the plant extract natural alternative. Can you talk about what you think about metformin versus berberine?
SPEAKER_00I think it's very difficult. One of the things is about with it comes back to this standardization. What is an optimization of dosage and things like that? Obviously, metformin's been around for donkeys years now, and people know what the benefits are. It's still unclear how metformin delivers the benefits that it does. There's a lot of discussion about whether it has an effect on the microbiome.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So nobody really knows how metforming works. Um, and there is some evidence, and it comes, I hate to say it, I hate to bang on about it, but a lot of it comes down to this ages concept. Um, there's some evidence that uh I think there's some quercetin and other and and metforming people have looked at in terms of longevity and ages. And we've got quercetin in our anti-ages compound. So quercetin is a really interesting compound, um, and it does have effects on ages. I think it's very difficult to compare one with the other.
SPEAKER_01But do you think metformin is something that people can stay on long term a lot more safely than the other weight loss drugs, for instance?
SPEAKER_00But metformin's great in terms of um in terms of controlling blood sugar levels. Um that's that's its main role.
SPEAKER_01It's just such a buzzword, longevity, at the moment.
SPEAKER_00It is, and yeah, yeah, and we talked earlier before we started about these peptides, and there was an article in the Times on Saturday about it. And these pe a lot of these compounds that people are using have never been tested in humans. You know, it's a bit of cell line research that shows that it might have a benefit.
SPEAKER_01It's okay getting a cell to live a bit longer, but in your opinion, there isn't enough research done on peptides to be taking them.
SPEAKER_00But and and you know, it's it's an amorphous mass of peptides. You know, they're quite easy to produce. The other interesting thing was just about talking about manufacturing peptides. I was interested when I was looking at the um at Wigoving, do you know how much industrial solvent it takes to produce one kilo of Wigoving? Obviously not. 14 tonnes. Oh my goodness. From an environmental perspective, you know, producing these peptides is because it's so difficult to synthesize them, quite an expensive process, and it does require it's quite a complicated chemical process.
SPEAKER_01Wow. That's like the saying how much water it takes to make a pair of jeans, isn't it? On the impact in the environment.
SPEAKER_00Exactly, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Oh well, Mike, I think I I I might have to book you for another chat, another time. I could chat to you for ages. Um, I want to link to your range of supplements. It's been so interesting finding out about your research and what work you've put into what you're producing because it's something that sits differently on the market to what we're normally seeing, and I think that's what's so interesting about what you're doing.
SPEAKER_00Thanks, Kristen.
SPEAKER_01And yeah, thank you for having me. Thank you very much.
SPEAKER_00No, thank you for inviting me on your on your programme. Really enjoyed it. Thank you.
