Therapists Off Script
Three therapist friends gather to discuss the latest trends, current issues, and therapeutic dilemmas with unscripted laughter and fun.
Therapists Off Script
Ep.5 (pt 1) Burn Out- Welcome to Adulthood
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In this session, Bernadette, Becky, and Theresa will chat about burnout—what it is, how we might end up there, and what we can do to fight it off. Bernadette brings the questions, Becky presses the buttons, and Theresa will ‘encourage’ us (yell at us) to get started. Come along for the first part of our very first two-part series!
Find out what happens when three therapist friends drop the therapeutic dialogue. Join us unfiltered, unapologetic, and uncouched as we discuss the real issues, therapeutic dilemmas, and a whole lot of laughter. Our vision is to go beyond information and build upon inspiration. This is therapy.
SPEAKER_01Wait, is it on now? Back again. Oh, we're recording. Yes.
SPEAKER_05Sure. Uh what I'm seeing. Oh, good. That's what my computer is telling me. Okay, Brittany, don't move.
SPEAKER_00I won't breathe. Okay. Welcome to episode five. Hi. Hi. We're gonna be talking about burnout today. Oh, we didn't know what we were talking about today.
SPEAKER_05Unless that's really good.
SPEAKER_00As if we're already not burnt out.
SPEAKER_01I'm burnt out just getting this thing to work. You know how long it took us just now? It was ridiculous. We have less than an hour.
SPEAKER_00It's all good.
SPEAKER_01I can hear you're shaking.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I won't do that. Sorry.
SPEAKER_01That's okay.
SPEAKER_05Okay. Burnout. Uh what is that? That's weird. I'd never heard that before. Just jumping right into it. Yes, do it. We have to do it. You're you're telling, you're yelling at us, telling us that we have to be done really, really quickly. So now I'm scared. We need to get finished.
SPEAKER_00Definition. Severe emotional, physical, mental exhaustion, yeah, usually brought on by prolonged stress and being overworked.
SPEAKER_05I think I was born burnt out. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I mean, also, you know, your partners.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay, we'll get into all the things that can cause burnout, right? But that's just burnout because I think there's a lot of people who either, yes, know what it is, or the people who've never heard of it before.
SPEAKER_01I think a lot of young people who are just living under a rock.
SPEAKER_00No, not so much that. You know, I think that they're like just figuring out adulthood. I feel like it's like my transitional group of like 18 and over, are like, oh my God, I'm so stressed out. I'm so this. I'm so I'm like, it sounds like burnout.
SPEAKER_05It also sounds like they figured it out.
SPEAKER_01Oh, do you know what pretty much adulthood? No, I go, oh my God, it just gets worse. Welcome. That's not the thing.
SPEAKER_00I do appreciate that. The the welcome to adulthood. It sucks. Let's figure it out together. Yeah. But so, okay, that's just true on definition, right?
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_00We can talk about real quick. Uh, I just throw out some symptoms, right? Of what people are experiencing, right? That's gonna look like physical or mental exhaustion, right? Depletion, fatigue, irritability. Right. So those are just like some quick snippets. How does it look to the world? You look overwhelmed. Teresa, you looked overwhelmed. No, I'm bored. Oh man. It could look like that too, honestly, if you think about it. Yes. Which is then what leads to a lot of like doom scrolling and BS.
SPEAKER_05I was gonna ask, what is the social media aspect?
SPEAKER_00Oh my god, there's so many, right? But there's like one of the things I thought was interesting is helplessness. And I definitely think that there is a level of helplessness, especially when we see in our populations who are saying that they're very depressed, right? Um, unmotivated, right? Reduced. I love this one. Reduced professional efficacy. Efficacy?
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Oh. Like your effectiveness at work is not good.
SPEAKER_01Yes. I was born that way.
SPEAKER_00You too.
SPEAKER_05Man.
SPEAKER_00Look at that. Two out of the three. I just born that way. You just okay. Hey, get comfy. Get cozy. You know what? This is not an easy conversation. No, you might as well get gozy.
SPEAKER_05And it's a really great day to have a really tough conversation.
SPEAKER_00Oh, it is. It is really uh glue me out. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05So I love this kind of weather. I know you do. I don't mind it, but I need some sun every once in a while. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But if I'm gonna have weather like this, right? And then also, yes, today I am very burned out, then I need to just be like curled up and oh my god bless you.
SPEAKER_03Shut up.
SPEAKER_00That is gonna be so loud in this poor microphone.
SPEAKER_05We apologize now. It's gonna be fantastic in advance. Luckily, that's your microphone and no one else has to use it.
SPEAKER_01I I actually talked through all three of yours. I put my mouth on it.
SPEAKER_00So glad you licked our microphone. I sure did. But yes, if I'm gonna deal with stuff like this, I need to be curled up like cozy, the most coziest outfit in blankets. Don't anybody talk to me.
SPEAKER_01I mean that flip a glass of wine or a book, but guess what I'm doing instead right now? What are you just sitting here with you two?
SPEAKER_05Those all sound like great ways to come back from burnout. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00As long as you use them in the right way, though, right? That's true. Because you get stuck, yeah. You get stuck in coziness, just seems like coziness, though. I know, but you know how yeah, yeah, and you can have a glass of wine or you can have a bottle of wine, right? Like the bottle sounds good. You know, you could sit on the screen. I don't know. You could screw, you can screw the girl. Sorry, why not scroll? You might not have energy for that.
SPEAKER_05We got the Netflix, we got the chill, let's do it.
SPEAKER_00You might not have the energy, you might be unmotivated to do any of that. Uh yeah.
SPEAKER_01Just lay there. Dead shit. Yeah, let the other person do all the work.
SPEAKER_00Anyway, back to burnout. It does not sound like we're burnt out, but at any rate, um, so causes, right? High stress jobs, right? Lack of control. This one, which I think we all experience, poor work-life balance, just feeling overwhelmed, um, uh overabundance of responsibilities, right? Like those are just like snippets that you were talking about, or whatever you're talking about, family, yeah, right? Um, or like uh conflicts between friends, or uh I don't know, list of moss.
SPEAKER_01We had one. But I forgive you ladies now. What? Our conflict. Oh yeah, conflict, uh when? Last week. For what? Because you guys wanted to leave me out.
SPEAKER_05Oh goodness. My goodness. We can never leave you out of our life. We kind of knew you weren't happy. That's why I was like, hey, it's all okay. We handled it maturely, I'm just saying. We put it out there, we talked to each other.
SPEAKER_01Me, did you see what I texted you, girl?
SPEAKER_00She quit, she was out of the friendship.
SPEAKER_01Not good anymore. I said the F word. Oh yeah, I text you. Naughty. I don't swear.
SPEAKER_05It's lying on the burnout list. I think delusion.
SPEAKER_01I can't even say it with a straight face. No, I know.
SPEAKER_00No, that's even better though.
SPEAKER_01No, but I love you, ladies. I love you too.
SPEAKER_00We love you. Our tripod could never work out, you know. Pass the moment now.
SPEAKER_05Let's move on. Okay.
SPEAKER_00I know, or passive aggressiveness. Oh. Right?
SPEAKER_05Yeah. But per this email. Per last email? Yeah.
unknownThat's what it is.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Oh, God. If do you want to add any other causes or because I'm annoyed? No.
SPEAKER_05Because I hate him. No. Um the uh the mental load of the household. Oh my god, yeah. Huge. Especially, I mean, I know it can happen with both uh the the female and the male of the household, but it typically is the female of the household that takes on the mental load of the responsibility.
SPEAKER_01I saw a study the other night. They were like, Men cause more stress for women and more workload at the whole.
SPEAKER_00Okay, I wanted to make sure I preface this and I clearly forgot to. We are not going to turn this into too much of a feminist piece. Listen. Because again, like you said, men and women experience. This is true, right? But yes, we are three women, and we are three women that come from very busy work lives and family lives.
SPEAKER_01But also, we are different generations. So, like the younger generation might listen to it and go, um, no, that's actually not the case for us. Yeah, that's true. But I think our generation has always been like that traditional, yeah, women did more and had a lot more. And so, you know, we could talk about all of it.
SPEAKER_00Well, and even j if you think about generations um that preceded us, we are working so much more, right? In in our generation, I feel like. Yeah. Um, or pushing to have like we're three women that own our own business. What? I know. Wait, wait, we own it? This is own it new. Founded it and continue to run it and maintain like sounds pretty awesome. I know. Whereas, like, if you think about, right, boomers and older were like sometimes staying at home more, things like that. Now, I do think that the three of us though, we make that like a different uh exception because all of our moms worked at different point in times. At different point in times. No, why do you go, hmm?
SPEAKER_05Mama Row didn't not like not out of the house.
SPEAKER_01No, she did, but I don't know. It was very short-lived, I think. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00Right, but it right, but it we didn't have like strictly homemaker moms though.
SPEAKER_01Not strictly. No, I had my grandma live with me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, my grandmother lived with us too.
SPEAKER_01It was great. Mine didn't. Oh no. I'm sorry. That's okay. She used to make me food when I was hungover. Oh, that was nice. I know. Grandma soup.
SPEAKER_00That's I I don't I don't have that. My grandmother didn't last till I was 21. So I didn't get any, you know, homemade soups when I was hungover.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it was great, but my mother gave me the stink eye. Oh, that's she did. Yeah. She was just jealous.
SPEAKER_00Her other job was just judging you. She still does that. No wonder she still does it. She's a very busy woman. But um the fact that that's the role that we take on, right? So we are um entrepreneurs. Yes. I never thought that I would say that about us, or even about myself. Like I would have never thought, like years ago, I would have said, like, that's what I'm gonna do, right? Um be okay to be like, but I just pulled this up like easy. Oh, I've stepped on the mic or the uh headphones a couple times now and yanked it out of my ears.
SPEAKER_01Yanked them both right out.
SPEAKER_05Terrible.
SPEAKER_01I'm just gonna let you know, the fortune teller told me that I would do well if I own my own business. Well, the fortune teller was right.
SPEAKER_05I don't remember you, I remember you telling me that.
SPEAKER_00I would love to set up a fun day where we have like a tarot reader or fortune teller something here at Artwell for everybody.
SPEAKER_01That'd be kind of fun. Yeah, mine was in Korea though. This like the Korean fortune tellers are very good so we're gonna jet over to Korea.
SPEAKER_05Yes, and then we're gonna go get our fortune tellers. Well, jets. Yes.
SPEAKER_01Oh, Bernie, Bernie doesn't know about that jet yet. No.
SPEAKER_00We can't afford the jet, and I also am very concerned about affording a ticket to Korea right now. But it's okay.
SPEAKER_01No, don't worry, we'll make it happen. We'll figure it out. But I would love for someone to come in.
SPEAKER_00Like I think that would be good.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, uh I do know someone that does um who? One of our fellow therapists that works with us.
SPEAKER_03Like does tarot reading? Yeah. Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Like for real? Yeah. Okay. Let's do it. Do you think they'd feel weird about doing that for everybody? I don't know. I don't think so. Okay. I'll let you know after. Okay.
SPEAKER_00Fair enough. I used to love that Wiccan stuff, but anyway. Anyway. But not only are we business owners, we are also women with families and so many responsibilities that you're right. The younger generations, well, sure. I mean, like the Gen Zers right now, they're not necessarily in it, in it right now, right? Because we're talking about 96 is the cutoff of like the youngest millennial.
SPEAKER_01Oh. That was like 96 years old.
SPEAKER_00No, which makes them only 30 now. Right? So it would have to be like anybody a little bit younger than that. They're probably not at this phase of their world right now.
SPEAKER_01But I also think burnout, like you said, that's such a big de definition about it that you know, their burnout, I think they could still have it, but it's definitely different from our burnout. Right? They don't have that like the whole family system and you know, children and all of that could cause the burnout.
SPEAKER_00But but they have families, right? Because they're being parented. Most of them are probably still being parented.
SPEAKER_01It could be that. I mean, or it could just be because I you know, I just got a call from a a potential client who is feeling already kind of and it might not necessarily just be burnout, but maybe just over stress because it's not like her first job, her first year teaching. That's really overwhelmed. Yeah. Um so I think yeah, it could it's definitely different for different generations, I think.
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah, because the the older Gen Zers are all about graduating right now, college. Right. So they're all gonna be starting that that phase of adulthood of like, how do I get out there and how do I do that? But I do think it is it's something that you could experience probably at any age, yeah, but college age and up is like where you're really in it. Because I think one of the things I was reading that I loved was um don't confuse it with feeling just tired. Don't confuse it with just being busy. Yeah. Yeah. Because there is a big like or lazy.
SPEAKER_05People have said, I'm just lazy. Right. Like, no, and you're not just lazy. There's something else happening here.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Or just being unmotivated. Or truly there there is a difference, even though some of these definitions are very closely similar to like depression, right? Or that overwhelmed, like maybe perseverating and things like that could be closely related to anxiety. So burnout can still be manifested outside of depression and anxiety, but can definitely lead into it.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I think that's uh if not recognized and balanced out and treated. So my next piece was gonna be asking you ladies.
SPEAKER_03I love to ask.
SPEAKER_00I love to ask. See, Becky burnout like pushes buttons. I ask so many questions. That's what I do. So where have you seen this burnout happen to you, ladies?
SPEAKER_05Where or when? Both uh definitely during COVID. During the pandemic was really, really rough. And I noticed it. And I had to do a lot to recover from that. Like um decrease my caseload, make sure I was focusing time with family, make sure I was doing the things I wanted to do still, talk to my doctor, make sure there's any any other things that I could do to help and was able to kind of put myself back in the right direction of where I wanted to go. But it was rough. It was rough for a little bit until I was like, okay, I feel a little bit better. Spring was it was right around the winter time, spring was coming around, I was able to get outside more, that kind of stuff. But it was rough for a while. It was rough for a while. So um what about you, Teresa?
SPEAKER_01I think it's the same thing. I was just thinking, like, I think that's almost like probably more than half of the people I think ever really happened during COVID. I think part of that though is just because it was such a different way of the world that we live in. Oh yeah. So even if it wasn't like, oh, you know, I've been I'm burnt out because I've just been working so hard, I feel like it was just I'm burnt out because this is so new and I have to figure this out. And you know, for people who had children, like they had to figure out how to happen to school while they're working. So I think that level of burnout was very different than at any other time. You know, like so some people we get burnt out again, like if you've been at a job for so long, right? Whereas this I felt like it was like a it was kind of forced on us. Yeah, life was forced on us to change. And that happened at the rate we wanted it to happen. Right? But that's we had to. And that was like because I was just getting into all of this, so I was like, oh, this is what it's like. Yeah. Um but I think that um other than that, I think it was when I was teaching and I finally left. I think that that was my burnout. Um I did I didn't like the politics and how the school was changing. So I think that added to it, but I knew, like I was like, I'm done, I have no more creative juices. I like the kids. I like most of the people I work with. The last person that I really liked working with left me. I left. So I was like, I even shared a room and everything.
SPEAKER_05And it wasn't personal. It wasn't you. Yeah. Uh huh. A lot of a lot of the reasons you just mentioned are the reasons why I left as well.
SPEAKER_01And it's so I think that's how I knew, like, okay, I'm ready to do something else.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Because I was not waking up going, oh, I'm excited. I mean, I still wouldn't wake up that early to go to work, but even if you really loved your job. But it wasn't something where I was like, oh, I'm ready to go and teach these children. Yeah. It's like, all right, let's just do this. Anything. But that also I think that's my biggest burnout was then and I knew. Like when I left, I was like, oh, it was scary because I was also like, Well, what am I gonna do now? Yeah. Yeah. Because I I don't think I necessarily left with a plan. And I definitely didn't leave with another job like that. Right.
SPEAKER_00That is very brave of you.
SPEAKER_01That is like the pocket I've had. Yeah. I just left. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03She said deuces. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah, it was kind of crazy, I guess, trying to do that. Um I think I did have some money saved up, though, at that time too.
SPEAKER_05I remember it was though around the time. You I think substituted the places, didn't you? Yeah, I did. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And then I kind of ended up getting another job at another school.
SPEAKER_00But did you work wait, you were at Nutrier? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But that was a job or was that a sub like just sub- No, I ended up getting a job at Nutri. Oh, actually before Nutrier. Yeah. Oh no, no, you're right. Yeah, I was at Nutrier. Um then I when I was at Nutrier, I decided to go back to grad school.
SPEAKER_03Wow.
SPEAKER_01And then uh one of the teachers I worked with worked with at Nutrier had like a brother-in-law or sister or someone who either taught or was admin at a TSU. So then I went there and then I became a specialist teacher again.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And then I left that position when I interrupted started because I couldn't work full time and do that.
SPEAKER_00So that's a lot.
SPEAKER_01I don't know.
SPEAKER_00Did any of that lead to burnout?
SPEAKER_01No. No. That didn't lead to burnout. That's just actually um coming from working in a therapeutic day school and then working at a because even at Nutrier it was a special ed program. And then going to Nutrier and then going to CPS. Um opened up my eyes with just the frustration of our education system, our special ed system. So it wasn't necessarily burnout when I was working in those places. It was more of oh my god, like the discrepancies and the stuff that CPS doesn't have your special needs kids and like just a special education program. And how frustrating it was that's part of the reasons where I was like, Oh, thank God I have a practical mentorship and I can't work here anymore. Like I at that point I was like, I don't want to do this because I was so frustrated by the lack of support. Um
SPEAKER_00that but you know and now I have burnout here working with you later I'm just ready to we're horrible we're horrible to work with I'm ready to leave no you're not no but I agree because um I was kind of thinking very similarly of what you ladies were saying about during COVID and having that burnout because that's when I made the big decision to leave the schools then too and I was like I need I think I need something different this isn't working anymore I and especially that the piece that you said like waking up in the morning it's one thing to wake up early but it's it's another to wake up and not feel excited or thrilled to go into what you're about to do and you should have gusto when you go to work hopefully you know um and if that happens more that often than not then you have to look and see what is is this yes what is getting in the way yeah yeah what is causing that feeling and so then when I made that decision to leave but in a way I wanted to get back to my roots of um uh like working one-on-one because I felt like I was so enmeshed into the whole admin system that I I wasn't getting that like clinical experience anymore. So then after a while I'm like I I'm just doing paperwork all the time I feel like I'm just like running meetings and things. I'm not even like doing what I felt like I actually went to school for anymore. So so it was just scary. It was scary and then I was just becoming uh a mom the second time around again. That's right. Yeah. Because I had I had my middle one uh June 2020. The world closed down in March and then I was like at home with a newborn and a one and a half year old. Oh yeah. And I was like I don't know how to do this. Yeah. And I have nobody to come over. No and I have to wear masks and I have to do this. It was it was scary.
SPEAKER_05Everything was really scary at the time because nobody really knew what to expect we didn't know what to do. So it was one of the a time where I felt very incompetent as a parent because I did not know how to you know what to do to help my children besides keep them home. And am I making the right decision? Is this going to affect their right socialization moving forward? If they get sick, what's gonna happen it was no one was giving us really any answers anywhere. No one knew.
SPEAKER_01So it was really a time of a lot of fear a lot of um not knowing and guessing yeah I mean you know I think it was like like a hard time but I also think there was good things that came out of it. Oh yeah telehealth was a huge one. Yeah and I think the people just who have been working so hard for so long and they're like a nine to five job or whatever like realize and just reprioritized I think their life and what's important to them. So I think you know with all of that still I don't know I you know whether you know people believe in things or gods or universe or whatever but I feel like the universe is like here I'm gonna throw you some shit figure it out get your act together like you human beings are sloppy.
SPEAKER_00Like get up get your head out of your ass let's reprioritize how you live and just or how you spend time with one another or why when we couldn't be with family how important family then became for us and so yeah.
SPEAKER_01I mean even just even um you know because I I don't know if you guys saw this documentary but they did this documentary The Poop Cruise I saw that one. Yeah the poop cruise uh these people went out and documented what life was like when everything shut down and they were the only ones out there it's a beautiful documentary of what happened to our world like wildlife the ocean oh I know what you're talking about like everything cleaned up like things were just so clean and it was it was a beautiful document there was like a a stabilization again of some of the just like the the earth and the animals and things like that because people weren't out there polluting it. Ruining it yeah right yeah I and I think that's eye opening too of how much harm we can sometimes do to one another um and things like that. So you know in a way I'm like yeah it definitely sucks but also I feel like hopefully right it's changed most of us for the better. You know and even with like burnout like hopefully even through all of that we've learned like okay what are some things that we can do so we don't get to burnout you know if we end up getting there like at least slower or if we get there like what can we do to combat it right or work on it.
SPEAKER_05Um but yeah I don't know have you ladies um wait no no no no no you sorry have to answer you did I did oh you didn't yes when I changed my job no no no pay attention no uh because we're all talking about but I think what's good is that we're all cruising figured out I wish you were on so awesome so glad I wasn't no but I think what's what's awesome is um that that is a very evident burnout time right during COVID.
SPEAKER_00So how about in more recent times? Because I I'll go first on this one right oh yeah so when we started Artwell yeah oh yeah oh my gosh yeah she was gonna leave burnout for who me you um yeah there was a time it was extenuated I think I think we all had our little moments where we're like my bags are packed I gotta go peace out by the way sorry if I'm really raspy today I kind of lost my voice over the weekend um so I keep clearing my throat I won't ask her what she did how did I do you know what it was talking too much. I'm not gonna lie talking so much this past week for just like work stuff like talking to clients all the time I know but I think I've just put a strain an extra strain on my vocal cords and then when I was at that fundraiser on Friday and I was talking to all the parents by the end of the night I was like done I was like oh my God. I I was it was too much yeah so I got burnt out my social battery definitely got burnt out of that yeah no but like okay so opening up this business didn't realize how burnt out we were gonna feel yeah right um sure the social aspects that probably caused some of that burnout definitely played into it. But I definitely think there was that level of not knowing what we didn't know going into this was tough. I know that the three of us had to have those conversations with our family of like just put trust into us we're gonna do this and we had to go into this with no money as well as come out of the first few months with no money. That was fun and just pray we could hold it together and we did but at the moment it it felt very scary. It felt so scary and then I'm like oh my gosh we're putting in a lot of hours we're figuring out we're calling people we didn't go to school for business no I did not so we didn't know those like bigger aspects of um like you Becky I still I'm so grateful the fact that you put together our LLC you know and got our NPI all started which I'm just still like I don't know where to find mine half the time. I'm down everybody's on a piece of paper. Yes no now we have to have those things all the time right um or figuring out insurance yeah we never took classes no on how to bill and how to do all of that and marketing is still something we're figuring out I mean there's just so many pieces that I know in the beginning I felt very just exhausted and was getting really irritable um and crying a lot.
SPEAKER_01Yeah yeah I mean we had to though like because it wasn't like oh we get to just be therapists and just do that. It was like oh we have to be admin therapists, HR, we had to do it all. Billing departments obviously when you work for somebody else or other right they have a front desk person they have a billing department. Yeah you know but we had to do all of that which I'm grateful I did it with you three. Yes. So I you know I think the burnout would have been even worse if I was doing it alone because I know whenever I felt exhausted or burned out or just overwhelmed I could tell you ladies and you ladies would always be like take a break like rest will take care of it. Don't worry about it. Like what can we take off your plate? Yeah and I feel like you know we've you know Pecky you and I have done that for Bernie. Bernie you've done that for Packy and me. Like I think the three of us have always been able to say hey take a break back like we got this you know which I think definitely helped.
SPEAKER_00And it takes a level of trust yeah too because I think that when you're really burnt out you almost feel like there's nobody that can help dig you out. Right. Right? Like you're just so in the depths of it all.
SPEAKER_05So to have been able to trust each other like one that we could delegate out but also to ask for help was really really a new thing for for all three of us to figure out but I remember Teresa when we were building the website we were on the phone for like three hours like do you like this picture? Take a look at this one. What does this one look like? Do you like how this looks well let's try this one I don't know if I like that one. I don't know if that matches I looked at that for three hours. It was and then we did it again for like another couple hours I don't know if it's the next day or the next week but it was very we were on the phone for quite a while and I was thankful for that because I was like I don't want to do this by myself.
SPEAKER_01I wouldn't want to do it with anybody else I'd be like do you know what you're doing she'd be like yeah I go you know what buttons you're pressing I don't know I'm just pushing it I'm gonna see what happens beautiful I I had to just learn to like relinquish control. I think that yeah sorry what was that say it again I still have you have you guys not looked at my shirt yet I know I saw that I thought it was really funny I like that not bossy just aggressively helpful that's lovely that is that's Bernie a hundred and ten percent in a nutshell but I I have been better about that you know and I think we all in our own ways have had to figure oh yeah whenever she's like hey Teresa can you do this I'm like damn it no no but you can you can tell the you're like a little kid you do the sigh like of course I'm here to help you on this well like sometimes she'll like call me at midnight or one in the morning she'll be like hey can you talk and I'm like almost about to fall asleep I'm like yeah sure she'll call it like okay so I'm getting pay like payroll right now and da da da and I'm like okay I've done that to both of you I'm always like and one of you still awake and then like at six o'clock in the morning she's like hey can you get can I get that code I know I feel so bad.
SPEAKER_00This is how I overwork myself I know okay first off I don't do it at six I do it at eight okay I try to wait to eight eight o'clock is like six o'clock it is it is I'm like don't talk to me until nine because I need my coffee need to be the dogs and the mom you're like never mind I need a new code all the time constantly I'm like I should go like this I'm gonna need a code so tell me if you can give it to me if not let me know when you can I'm not even gonna send it like tell me what time tomorrow morning. Right yeah but that's where I felt it is in um in the beginning of this phase. And I think that we now are flowing so much better. I mean we're still gonna have these little moments where we're really stressed out but I think more recently that's where it has hit. And then yeah I and then I recognize when it's hitting me at home because sometimes I have to remind myself like put down my phone now it's time to be a mom yeah or now I have to like chauffeur people around and stuff or I I have to you know dinner or you're talking to Becky and Bernie again like did you just see them I'm like listen I need to talk to them while I'm home too yeah I mean I know we do talk a lot but I work wives it's okay that's okay work wives. Yeah yeah in Utah it would make a lot of sense I know polyamory in the workplace so much it's none of this was making sense. But at any rate how about more recently have you ladies besides when we open this up you know no I can't think of anything um do you think you get little bursts then just like little mini bursts of burnout are you telling me something? Maybe like because sometimes we it's not like meltdown situations we're experiencing but like okay for example our expansion for our space. Yes we are expanding expanding again you might have heard in a previous episode we did but we're doing it again. But I think that those little tiny things sometimes feel very heavy.
SPEAKER_05Yeah I think that when we have a weekend that there's a lot going on and we don't get a chance to kind of break from everything. Yeah that's for the next the next week I feel really really tired. Like I wasn't able to shut down and reboot so to speak but that that's not gonna be difficult for me. Um so if we get some time it's nice if we have no time it's harder.
SPEAKER_00I was thinking of for you when you guys were like fully in depth in your renovation at home.
SPEAKER_05Oh my god. Right. I just pretended like it wasn't happening.
SPEAKER_00But I figure like those were big burnout moments because you're like we hit a pipe. Yeah it's flooding yeah like those are real things that happen constantly to us like being a homeowner.
SPEAKER_05No one tells you no it was it's beautiful now my husband did a fantastic job and he just it is gorgeous. But a whole kitchen together was amazing. Yeah but it it was a a year on the undertaking of uh everything like I just had to sit in the fact that my house is going to be a renovation space for a very long time. And the outcome is awesome but in the middle of it like it's it's in always in that middle the middle of whatever it is like you don't see the shore or you feel like you're just kind of like there's no way out and sometimes there's not you just gotta sit in it and go with it and you know make it to the other side. But it's it can be rough.
SPEAKER_01Yeah because in the beginning it's exciting. Yeah you're like oh my god it's gonna be great and this and you there's that excitement there. Right. And then when you're like actually going through it little by little then like you say like there's unexpect unexpected things that happen.
SPEAKER_00So then you're yeah like a tree falling in your backyard. Yeah right and renting a chainsaw and then renting a chainsaw and learning taking care chop down pieces of wood from very dead tree.
SPEAKER_01No I mean I think like I'm trying to I recognize I'm like why am I working on weekends when nobody else is doing it so I'm trying to not look at work emails anymore over the weekends because I'm like even if I see it and even if I respond back those people probably aren't going to respond back to me till the weekday. So I'm like why am I putting that extra extra effort when I could just look at it Monday and then respond to all the emails that I need to respond to and then I get the day going.
SPEAKER_00I agree I think I've looked at them now more as what is uh like an urgency meter. Yes, yes right like if I have someone who has like an emergency want to reschedule and I know like oh okay well maybe well because I just had to do that today where somebody needed to reschedule and I was able to move them to Monday. So I'm like okay I'm gonna have to respond to that person so I can see them tomorrow. But otherwise I'm looking at or text messages if I get from clients you know it's nice that they want to like share something with me and I'm like and I can't handle this. I'm mentally I can't handle this right now.
SPEAKER_01But I'm also even just talking about like admin emails.
SPEAKER_05Oh like from our clinicians or things that we have to take care of people that we have business with outside of parents sure honestly they don't work on the weekends.
SPEAKER_01Right. So I'm like well why am I spending time doing this on a weekend when I can just do it Monday. If I happen to look at like you said, right if the level of emergency or urgency right and if I look at emails and I'm like oh I need to respond right away then that's fine. But other things I'll read and I'll be like not today.
SPEAKER_00No I I feel you on that. I feel like I'm trying to get better at that too.
SPEAKER_01Yeah I and I am I'm trying to get better at it so that I can actually be present during my weekend and not be like oh I'm here but I'm also on my taxi but I'm not here yeah yeah when we first opened I had a conversation with my kids I was just like hey I want to be working a lot and then I take a month or two just to get this going.
SPEAKER_05I mean let's be real it never really ended but in the beginning they weren't used to that as much so I was like I'm gonna be working a lot it's not because I don't want to be with you but I just need to make sure this is successful as best we can so I'm gonna be working at night. I'm gonna be coming home I'm still gonna be working I'm gonna be going downstairs on the weekends. I'm gonna be meeting with people um I don't want to but I have to and just know it's not gonna last forever.
SPEAKER_00Yeah they're like okay I mean they yes you're right they probably didn't get it in the moment but you just hope that that seedling is planted now so that they understand. Yeah. You know and then in hindsight when they get older they're gonna be like man my mom was a badass. She worked so hard and yet showed up for every single one of my games or my writing or my you know driving I can't believe you're not gonna be driving now.
SPEAKER_05This is gross.
SPEAKER_00But and and for the buying of Fortnite skin I'm so glad I put so much work into it when you don't get five dollars on Roblox sure sure honey dude the stupid game that we love playing with the kids right because we play 999s all the time with the kids I spent my nephews were so angry at me that I did this because then they looked at their mom and then my sister was like how could you do that to me I spent for each kid$35 on Roblox for them to get this particular like skin and and class that they needed for this game because all five of us play together. Yeah but I also am like I work really hard to make the money that I make so I could buy stupid crap like this and they're excited and we're able to play this game successfully together.
SPEAKER_01Okay I don't play Roblox so you guys are talking about skin and it's freaking me out.
SPEAKER_00Sorry not like that like you know what or mine is well ours is like a a class because you can have like a medic class I'm always the medic. I hate being the medic but of course I'm the mom who carries the bandages it puts the because I know it puts on the skin you know okay I'm done talking but it's a it's you know I have to you know and and but they get they got excited and they were so thrilled and I'm like yeah I can spend my money on stupid crap like that because you I work really exactly I work damn hard yeah to get myself stupid things. Yes I would say totally I am a 20 year old with 40 year old money right now.
SPEAKER_05It's terrible I hear you on that I I've spent money on Roblox for myself.
SPEAKER_00I had to revive myself so I had to spend like a dollar ninety nine like a couple times.
SPEAKER_05I'm I'm playing the new dang it the new uh garden game it's not girl garden anymore it's the new one yeah and I was like I really really want this is all self-care I really need I really want to get another gardener's pack of seeds so I'm gonna spend five dollars on Roblox to get another seed pack to get another seed pack I love it I love it that's why you should play your garden was amazing. I know it was pretty great.
SPEAKER_00No my kids would love like love your garden sorry guys I know this is ridiculousness but my sons would be like why does Miss Becky have like a tiger walking around And I'm like, I don't know. She's got good stuff. She's got good stuff.
SPEAKER_03But it's something.
SPEAKER_00Because we have to treat ourselves in order to combat our burnoutness, right? Yeah. So my next thing is is like, what are we seeing with our clients? And then how do we talk to our clients about burnout? Because whether it was clients that were also experiencing COVID or clients just today, right, experiencing a variety of things.
SPEAKER_05I think it's beneficial almost to have been in that position. So we can say, hey, this is what I'm seeing that you're taught telling me. And it sounds like this. And so we can kind of like, because they might not know why am I so tired. And they're judging themselves on why they're tired or I'm just lazy. I just can't do it. What's wrong with me? Just bullying themselves.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_05So like that doesn't sound like you're just lazy. It sounds like you're actually the opposite. And that's why you're feeling so depleted because you've been doing so much for so long. You cannot refill. You have to be able to refill. And if you ask my clients, they're gonna I say that a lot. And they're gonna hear, What did you do for self-care? I have people come on, I love this when they say, You're gonna be so proud of me. This is what I did. And I was like, That's fantastic. Keep doing that. Make sure you're refilling, finding the things that you're doing. Yes. Um, because my watch just told me it was time to stand. And guess what, watch? I'm not gonna, because I'm busy doing this.
SPEAKER_00I'm gonna move my legs and that's the best you're gonna get. Yeah. But no, no, but I think you're right though, that it is important for them to be able to say how they're combating it, to use the language. And you kind of provided them that language that that is a thing that exists because I don't think a lot of them I don't think they know.
SPEAKER_05I think they they just they judge themselves too harshly. And why can't I do this thing? Yeah. When it's because you've been doing it for so long, you just need a break.
SPEAKER_00I have seen also a lot of adults uh kind of going off of something you said, right? When your job, when you have to make that big change for yourself, right now, one of the biggest things for some of my adult clients is not being happy in their jobs, right? And wanting to make that change. But we now are in a very rough economy that not a lot of jobs are available. A lot of places aren't hiring because they can't afford it, or even our clients are finding it really hard to want to take that next step, like go back to school, or but if they can make it work for themselves, right? I praise them for trying to take that step and to move out of what if that thing, right? Like you identify, like you said, Becky, identify what it is. And a lot of times, if it is our job, that isn't filling our cup or taking too many spoons or all the things that is just like uh depleting you of your being, you don't have purpose anymore there, then it's time to make a change.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And why continue to stay in this very burnt out place? Or the young people who are feeling the burnout of just trying to figure out the rest of college and like, oh my god, I have to go out there and be an adult. Yes, you have to say to them, Welcome to adulthood. This feeling isn't necessarily gonna get any easier, but you are gonna have the tools to manage it better.
SPEAKER_05Hopefully.
SPEAKER_00Hopefully, right? Yes.
SPEAKER_05Is that yours or is that our landlord's? Okay.
SPEAKER_00Your ride is here. Your personal hooker. Your your personal personal chauffeur. Um, so let's let's get into a little bit of just that. Like, what do we what do we need to do? Right? What are some of the things or all of the things, all of the things, right? So like I'll give you a couple examples, right? So prioritizing health.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Right? Yes.
SPEAKER_00That's a broad term or statement, whatever. Um that's gonna look like sleep.
SPEAKER_02Raise your hand if you get more than eight hours of sleep a day.
SPEAKER_01I probably do.
unknownYou're fired.
SPEAKER_01No, because I don't have to wake up until my watch says I average around six. Six, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I don't wear my watches asleep, so I don't know. That's good that you wear it. I've I haven't been able to wear mine for sleeping.
SPEAKER_05Then I have to get charged.
SPEAKER_01I know because like if I even go to sleep at like midnight one, four o'clock, whatever, right? I don't get up until Titus wakes me up because I have to feed him. So and feeding and breakfast is at 8 30, but I don't always get up at 8 30. So he eats anytime between like 8 30 to 9-ish. But I absolutely have to get up. Sure.
SPEAKER_00So I But sometimes you've had morning clients though, too. So it's it's not every day you're getting eight hours of sleep.
SPEAKER_01That's very rare, Bernie. I will tell you right now, like those early.
SPEAKER_00No, I mean, we usually hear about it. You're like, oh my god, I have a nine o'clock client. Those are still rare.
SPEAKER_05What's a morning client?
SPEAKER_00I know. I don't know.
SPEAKER_01I don't do it all the time. I know. That's that's you, Bernie. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I know. But but there's gonna be things. There's gonna be things, even even when you had rougher nights of sleep when you were taking care of the dogs and things like that. That was tough.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Um, and I think, you know, perimenopause is a bitch, and I think it's kicking me right now. Yeah, because I'm waking up in the middle of the night. Yeah, yeah. I had like like hot, cold, like sweats, and I'm just like, oh my god, this is this is not okay. Welcome. Thank you. I love this gift. Um so I think I may sleep eight or more hours, but I don't know how many of those disrupted. Yeah. Yeah. Like restful sleeping versus like getting up in the middle of the night a lot of times. Yeah. Um, but yeah.
SPEAKER_00And technically they say for women, we're supposed to be getting 10 to 14. What? Yeah. Where did you read that?
SPEAKER_05So hours or minutes?
SPEAKER_00What are we talking about? Yeah. I sleep with my eyes open now. Um I'm a vampire. No, so technically, women are supposed to be because our bodies have to completely shut down in order to replenish those particular hormones that can keep us going throughout the day. Men, on the other hand, don't um have to they don't require that much because their particular hormones get made during waking or sleeping hours because it's made in their testicles. They also say that pillow should go on.
SPEAKER_02Sorry, big biological words.
SPEAKER_01But they also say women should go on vacation with their girlfriends at least like what three times, four times a year. And I was like, okay, let's do this.
SPEAKER_00Um, they also say that married men live longer because we're taking care of them. Yeah. Jeez. And women tend to live longer when they are single, divorced, etc. Yeah. Yeah. So there's that. But that's interesting. All the studies, right? But again, prioritizing health, right? So we're clearly not getting either enough hours or the most restful REM type sleep, right? Right. And then balanced meals, our job. You kidding me? No. Do any of us schedule a dinner slot?
SPEAKER_05No, no, we don't. I think some of our therapists do because they realize a lot.
SPEAKER_00You know, a fellow colleague of ours, she used to all the time at like 6 or 6 30. I remember when I worked with her. Um, or she had like a half an hour break somewhere that she did. And I remember sometimes going over to her office and she was like, Yeah, no, this is my this is my dinner slot. I'm like, God, you are amazing. How do you do that?
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But we don't. I eat dinner at well on Wednesday nights, I eat dinner at 10 15 p.m. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I eat dinner usually around 8 30, 8 or 8 30. Um, and usually lately it's been a bowl of cereal.
SPEAKER_00Right. So then we're not even eating like a balanced out fiber protein, whatever, whatever. Or we have to then try our hardest to be snacking on the most appropriate things, which clearly cheese it's in our closet right now is not exactly the most balanced out choice.
SPEAKER_01But I mean, I think the reality is it's our choice. We we we choose to take on clients throughout the day. Like right, right. You know, we might say, Oh, how does she do it? Because they I I feel like all of this stuff, the self-care stuff, is very much intentional. Like you have to intentionally do these things, be very you have to want to do these things for yourself, they don't just happen, yeah. You know, and even the wants, like, okay, I want to do this. Okay, well, then you have to make it actually happen.
SPEAKER_00Well, like physical movement. Yeah, yeah. We've the three of us have talked about this all the time. Like, yeah, let's let's start, you know, keeping each other accountable. Let's walk more, let's do this. I do. I'm glad that you're doing. I have yet to accomplish that goal. Let's go. And unless I'm like running after my said children. I probably should have looked at my steps yesterday. But yeah, I and I keep telling myself once the weather gets better, but I can't make it an excuse that it's just the freaking weather.
SPEAKER_01Oh, my clients always talk about weather excuses, and I'm like, listen, are you kidding me right now? No, you have so much more independence and autonomy than you think. These are choices you're making. We everything can be an excuse, everything can be a choice. Like and but I also let my clients know, like, I get it that we are not all we don't all have the luxury of just saying, you know what, I don't like my job anymore. I'm leaving to find something else. I get that, if you don't, you know? And so I tell my clients if your job stuck, but you're also stuck, like you can't just drop it, right? I go, then you have to start finding other things in your life that bring you joy or happiness, right? That's where that balance comes in. And I always tell people I think balance, work-life balance looks different for everybody. Yeah. Um self-care is different for everybody. Yeah. And so I my thing for everyone is I can't tell you what's important or what you need to do. You have to figure out what is important to you, what kind of what kind of self-care works for you. Right? If you're saying I don't, you know, the sleeping thing, eight hours, I don't need that, okay, that's fine. Then if that's gonna be what you need, then figure out what it is that you do and do that. Because everyone is different. So I you know, for me when I talk to my clients about burnout or self-care, I always practice it with like, I can tell you a bunch of things. But at the end of the day, you know yourself best. You gotta figure out what it is. Because yeah, if you have three little kids, yeah, it's gonna be hard. And that self-care is gonna look different than a woman who is married with no children. Right? Or someone who is an empty nester, or someone who's beginning their getting their apartment for the first time. Yeah, and so it's like I never want to tell a woman who has three kids like, oh well, you should do more self-care and you need to do all these things. Because it's realistically, I don't think it's always possible. So let's sit down, think about what does your daily life look like. Right. Do we have pockets where you can do stuff? Oh, I love pockets.
SPEAKER_00Right, like little pockets. Oh, a hundred percent. But then I also tell people that who are very organized, right? Maybe they are like they have to like stick religiously to their calendar. Yeah, then where in that calendar do you have a break? Yeah. I tell people to put schedule in your like self-care or schedule in because when I was working at the schools as an admin, I remember hearing about that and then would schedule myself an opportunity to walk just up and down the halls and go look at in in the classrooms and say hi to people and stuff because I wasn't I wasn't connecting anymore.
SPEAKER_03No one tells you that, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So that brings me into boundaries, right? So it's boundaries we have to set with ourselves, but boundaries we have to set with other people. Yeah, I think we've learned that with each other. Um, we've learned that it's okay to put ourselves out there because sometimes we have said to each other, oh, I know we've got a lot to talk about, but I don't think we can do it this weekend. Like we've had to say to each other, hey, can we just revisit that at our next meeting or something? Because one or all of us are just feeling it.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And we've set that boundary. But setting that boundary, I know maybe became easy for the three of us because we respect and care for each other. Yeah, it's a very different thing when you have to set boundaries with people who don't give a shit. Yeah. Right.
SPEAKER_05Because you I tell my clients a lot, setting boundaries is easier than maintaining them. Maintaining them is the difficult part because you're gonna run across people who are always going to test them. Yes. And you have to keep them strong. Yeah, and that's a hard thing sometimes.
SPEAKER_01I always tell people, uh you know, clients too, I say, Set your boundaries, I don't think of the other person, right? Set your boundaries for you. And I always say also if the people you're setting boundaries with truly do respect or care for you, they're not gonna have a problem with it. Oh yeah. But if you know, and so I'm always like, you know, boundaries are difficult. Um if you want to start small because you're not used to setting boundaries, start small then, right? And yeah. And you keep growing with it. But I always say, don't worry about the other person. Do one for yourself. And that the people who truly do care about you, who do respect you, who are a part of your life, they will respect that.
SPEAKER_00They will know, oh yeah, that's you know, um but that's always raining harder outside. Really hard outside. Yeah. Um, but I think that that's also a just a really great because I love the way that you said that, all right, is that the people that care about you will respect that because then it really peers into who's really your support system. Yeah. Right.
SPEAKER_01Your relationship, right? You I think definitely opens up the idea of relationships with friends, lover, family.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Definitely.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Managing the workload, I think, is where that's gonna be, I think, a hard one depending on where you're at. I think for us, we have to figure out what our workload is, but we are at the top, right? So we're constantly modeling that for our clinicians of how not to burn themselves out, but at the same time, probably also trying to get them to like have gusto and fill that schedule of yours, people. Um, but we it's easier for us than sometimes when our clients are saying, I want to be able to manage my workload, but my boss continues to put project on me or deadline on me or this, that, and the other. Right. So do you ever feel like that's uh it's a tricky line to walk with your clients when they have to kind of just they're at the mercy of somebody else scheduling stuff for them.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. I um have a client who I really enjoy listening to how she interacts with um her boss because she's very much like okay. And I'm not like her boundaries are fantastic. And she doesn't let her work take over anything. She's like, Look, I work my job and I go home. Yeah, and then the people are asking me why am I not looking online at certain things. She's like, Am I working? No, so why would I? I was like, that's fantastic.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but I think that's the hardest, is like knowing when to shut down and then don't open again.
SPEAKER_01Don't okay, right. The idea of working, right? And that boundary is very much like it's like, oh, we live to work. Yeah, whereas like you go to other countries, you go to Europe especially, right? They don't do that. A lot of other countries have a very much like you know, yeah, you work, but also you have to live life, you have to enjoy, you know. Um I remember when I went to Paris, like like during the day when it was like lunchtime, everything shut down and they had like two three hour lunches on breaks, and people just enjoyed it, and then they come back to work, you know, like but I feel like here in America it's like, oh, hustle, hustle, hustle, work, work, work, and it's like, I'm like shoving my food in my face in the corner in like five minutes, like a heathen.
SPEAKER_00Right. Well, yeah, it's also like um in our country it's so much more prevalent to work through your lunch hour. Yeah, nobody would do that in our countries.
SPEAKER_01That's you know, we because we're so accustomed to that, that I think also too, sometimes people get nervous to like advocate for themselves in the workplace to tell their bosses, like, hey, listen, actually, this is not my lunch hour, I'm gonna take my lunch break. I am you know, like and it's true, right? You have to, I at least for me, like with my clients, I'm like yes, advocate for yourself though. Yeah, it's scary. But you have they can't fire you for advocating for yourself.
SPEAKER_05Oh, they shouldn't.
SPEAKER_00They shouldn't, right? Because we are supposed to have discrimination laws in place. But you know what? But people get dinged for like but people get dinged for needing to go to the doctor. Like doctor's offices and those types of appointments are usually during work hours because that's the time they work. Exactly. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But with that being said, I also like I always like to talk to my clients too about okay, well, what is um what does your work hours look like? What are how much are you actually doing because um you know, just to be my devil's advocate, I know some people are like, oh my god, I have to work all day, make me do all this stuff, and they're not doing anything. They're putting in all the work and they're saying, Oh, but I have they're making me do all these things. So you know, it's one of those things, okay, well what what is actually a lot? What is actually your job and what your role is at work? Like what are your expectations? Right? So are you achieving all those things? Or and you're doing all those things about half of it they expecting, or is it like well, you're not actually doing your expectations?
SPEAKER_00Right. This is perfect because it goes into the next one. Reframing the mindset.
SPEAKER_01We gotta hurry, ladies.
SPEAKER_05Okay, hang on, I'm throwing this out there. Yes, and I'm just putting this on the fly. What do you ladies think about doing a part two?
SPEAKER_03Ooh, can we bring a guest too?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, what guess?
SPEAKER_03I don't know. Thinking about I thought you had a plan.
SPEAKER_05I do, kinda. Okay. Um, we're at uh um an hour and five minutes already. Dang, right, but this is such an important topic. Such an important topic. I don't want to end it, but I feel like we shouldn't go any further because I don't want you know I and I have to do. Yeah, I gotta go make it.
SPEAKER_00And we're so sorry to our audience out there that it's just like on the edge. On the edge of their seats, clip leaving with the doorknob. But I do love a part two of burnout, right? And even getting other perspectives from people though, too, you know, and continuing to talk about this because I think a lot of people as adults, yeah, they know it exists, it's in their world, they're living in, and they probably would love even more examples of how to continue to combat this and the things that they can be doing that would work better for them.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, all right, let's do that.
SPEAKER_00Fantastic. So stay tuned for episodes.
SPEAKER_05So we'll have our mic drop moment on the uh we'll leave it at that.
SPEAKER_00Okay, that's my thing. Bye, everybody.