Runbelievable: Real Runners, Unreal Stories

Ep 15: Learning to Believe: Nat Rischin on Persistence and Self-Belief

• Josh Rischin • Season 1 • Episode 15

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Nat Rischin never saw herself as a runner.

She grew up doubting her physical ability, struggled with confidence, and spent years stopping and starting; both in running and in believing in herself.

What began with a 5km "fun run" in 2008... while still smoking... slowly evolved into something far deeper. Through knee pain, health scares, heart surgery, near-miss goals, and plenty of self-doubt, Nat kept showing up... and always with more grit than she gave herself credit for.

In this deeply personal episode of Runbelievable, Joshie and Matty sit down with Nat to explore the long road from short jogs around The Tan to half-marathon breakthroughs, marathon friendships, and a growing confidence that’s been years in the making.

It’s a story about patience, resilience, and how running can change the way you see yourself; even when no one else is watching.

In this episode:

  • Growing up without confidence in sport
  • Running her first 5km while smoking
  • Discovering a heart condition and choosing surgery
  • Why running alone became her therapy
  • The mental toll of near-miss goals
  • Breaking through self-doubt with coaching support
  • From half-marathon frustration to marathon fulfilment

Runbelievable: real runners, unreal stories.

Interested in being a guest on the show? Hit us up!

Here’s how to keep in touch:

Strava Club: https://www.strava.com/clubs/runbelievable/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rnblv_official/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@rnblv_official

Email: joshua@runbelievable.au

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Natty:

Like me to repeat what I said in our little chat. As a kid growing up, I, as I said to you, I was a chubby little fatfuck. Yeah, didn't see myself as an athlete in any sort whatsoever. Um yeah, I was the last picked for teams. In fact, I was the one hiding, not wanting to be picked for teams. So no, I was definitely not, not a sporting person.

Joshie:

Hello everybody and welcome to Run Believable, the podcast that celebrates the human side of running. I'm your host, Josh Christian, and I'm here to bring you stories of grit, glory, and overcoming adversity. Each episode, we'll dive deep into what first got people running and what keeps them lacing up day after day. From the last and the lessons to premature celebrations. This is why we run and how it shapes who we become. And coming up in just a couple of moments, you'll meet a runner who's challenged her perception of herself and is growing more and more confident with every kilometer she notches up. A quiet achiever with a big story and truly deserving of having her story shared today. Maddie, welcome back. A new year, a new guest lineup, and no doubt new shoes for you, or if I got that wrong.

Matty:

Yeah, no, you'd be right with that, I'd say. It's good to be back. Um, new year, um, new events, new training plans. Um shoes, of course. I mean, um, I do have the um running shoe calendar, release date calendar, and I follow that every year. So I know when they're coming out, um, and I know what I want to buy. So be good fun.

Joshie:

Awesome. Let's get stuck into the Run Believable rundown, and this is where we share highlights, mishaps, misadventures, crazy sights and sounds, little winds, basically the sort of stuff that humanizes the running experience. Now, look, Maddie, there's something that I wanted to have a quick debate with you about today, and that's whether or not it's naff to run when away on a family holiday.

Matty:

Yeah, I I love it. Um, we go away each year to the beach, and um, it's just i I stick with my structure that I normally do and run every day, and it's just new adventures, new, new courses and routes. And, you know, when you're at the beach, running beside the beach um, you know, when you haven't done it in such a long time is awesome. So no, I love it and and I'm all for it.

Joshie:

Now I remember the first time that I learned about someone running whilst on a family holiday, and that was Mark Wigglesworth, uh, who we spoke to back in episode five, I believe. And I remember speaking to him uh, and I think today's guest uh Nat was around at the same time when Mark talked about, you know, well, why wouldn't I run? I love running. Like it doesn't matter where I am, if I'm on a family holiday and I want to run, then I will. And I remember that sort of really challenged the way I felt about holidays. And, you know, that was a few years ago now. And yeah, for me now, certainly if I'm away on a holiday, not only do I love running, I'd say that probably most of my holidays are planned around some kind of running event, even if it's just a new park run.

Matty:

Yeah, definitely, definitely. Um it'd be awesome to do what um some of the guests we've spoken to over um 2025 in terms of international marathons and and um, you know, scheduling holidays around those. So I'd love to do that.

Joshie:

Fantastic. So, well, I said it was going to be a a debate. I don't know that it is because you and I are in furious agreement with each other. And if you have something that you would like to contribute to the Run Believable rundown, then send it our way. Today's guest is what I'd call a silent achiever. She didn't grow up seeing herself as a runner, doesn't chase attention, and didn't follow a straight path into the sport. What started with short jogs and plenty of stops has quietly turned into years of persistence, personal breakthroughs, and moments that matter far more than the times on the clock. Her story is about resilience, patience, and showing up even when no one's watching. Not only is she a quality person, she's darn sexy too. Can we please welcome my lovely wife, Nat Rishon? Welcome, Nat.

Natty:

Hey Joshy, hey Maddie. Thanks for that.

Joshie:

Now look, um Nat, before we kick off, um I do want to preface this conversation. Um, having kicked Run Believable off in oh gosh, October, I think our first episode was October last year. I think it was maybe November or December when you very subtly suggested that, hey, perhaps uh I should consider interviewing the person who um I'm not only married to, but also got me into running. Uh so I appreciate your patience, and I think there's no better way to kick off 2026 than interviewing yourself. Now, Nat, before running was even a thing, how did you see yourself uh in terms of I guess your uh uh athletic capabilities growing up?

Natty:

You'd like me to repeat what I said in our little chat.

Joshie:

Uh you can say whatever you want. I just need to be prepared to check a box on um on Spotify. How did you see yourself?

Natty:

Uh look, uh, as a kid growing up, I as I said to you, I was a chubby little fat fuck. And um, yeah, didn't see myself as an athlete in any sort whatsoever. Um yeah, I was the last picked for teams. In fact, I was the one hiding, not wanting to be picked for teams um or anything like that. So no, I was definitely not a sporting person, that is for sure. But um I guess, yeah, I just thought I was lazy and rather tuck into the chocky biscuits than get out for any type of sport, really. Yeah.

Joshie:

It is uh I guess as comical as it is to refer to yourself as a what'd you say, a chubby little fat fuck. Um there's obviously a serious side to that. I mean, how how do you I guess affect your perception of yourself and your confidence?

Natty:

Oh yeah, look, you know, um growing up I didn't have any confidence in myself. Um and you know, I yeah, just didn't think I was capable of amounting to much, so and that probably took a very long time to work through. And you know, there's still days that I work through that um that I feel like I'm at a much better place now. But yeah, I didn't believe that I would ever, ever run uh, you know, 200 metres, let alone half marathons and marathons.

Matty:

Were you were you ever told as a kid, like was that reinforced by, you know, close family or or relatives that um, you know, this is I and I think it's a generational thing, you know, it was like yeah, this is this is who that person is or that this kid is, and that's who she's gonna be. Um, because I know that I was as well as a kid, and I think that was my inspiration to achieve things. And I'm just wondering, yeah, was that part of your drive?

Natty:

Yeah, look, I guess growing up, you know, I knew I was loved, but I guess that nurture side of you can do it, I didn't grow up with that, but I think no one I knew sort of grew up with that, so just thought it was normal. And I guess, yeah, if I didn't do something, it was more like, oh well, you had a go, that's fine, you can't do that. I'm like, okay, yeah, I can't do that.

Joshie:

You know, I think a large part of it is yeah, certainly there's a generational aspect to it, but also I don't think the schools were equipped to support those that lag behind as well. Um so obviously at some point you decided that you wanted to at least have a go. I think you mentioned that your first 5k run was a fun run in 2008. And you were a smoker at the time.

Natty:

I was a smoker and an eater.

Joshie:

What on earth were you thinking tackling a 5k fun run then?

Natty:

I don't know. Uh it was a friend of mine, Yvonne, um, who had started to get into running and thought it would be a wonderful idea in the middle of February in Melbourne. So Melbourne doesn't get like here, as you know, but we do they do get hot days. And this was a particularly warm day, and oh, I got a stitch, and I reckon that was maybe 30 metres into the run. I was coughing my lungs up. Um probably took me over an hour to complete it because I was walking stop starting, um, trying to find water because I thought I was going to die. Um, yeah, it wasn't my best effort, that's for sure.

Joshie:

So what made you say yes? I mean, given where you were at in terms of your, I guess, confidence and yeah, where you how you perceived yourself athletically, what made you say yes back then?

Natty:

I guess it was just, you know, something fun with a friend, and I had no idea what was involved with running back then. I thought, oh yeah, you know, 5Ks, that's not very fast. Surely I can I can, you know, hang on and do that. But no, I could not.

Matty:

It's a wit, it's a it's a strange thing, isn't it? Because we all started somewhere. But running, I I reckon is one of the hardest sports, you know, and you have people like us that um you know tackle it and it it's yeah, I think ignorance is bliss um in that regard. But I I I I don't know how you own that, but when you do like that 5k, it's like I want to do better next time, I want to keep trying. Were you like that? Well, no.

Natty:

I was not this is it, this is one and done. I'm out. Uh, and it wasn't probably for a couple of years after that that I um tackled running again. I think it was two years later that I yeah, saw other people. And my motivation wasn't for health or fitness, it was to be skinny. So when you look at health and fitness, their healthy reasons to get into running. Mine was purely uh to be skinny, um, which was what I grew up with and what you know what everybody wanted to be, um, and their you know, quickest, easiest way to get there. I thought, oh yeah, running, that'll get me there. Let's have a go at this.

Joshie:

So you were living um I think uh around, was it South Melbourne at the time? So you had access, like ready access to um to what's colloquially known as the TAN. And for those who are listening that don't know, the TAN is uh, I think Nat will correct me if I'm wrong, a 3.9 kilometer circuit. Um sure there's a decimal in there that I've gotten wrong. Uh thereabouts. Yeah, uh, it seems to be uh it's almost like the um you know the the mech cuff of the local Melbourne running scene. Everyone wants to tackle the tan, it's not uh not an overly easy circuit. I mean, what can you tell us about your early experiences trying to run there, Naddy?

Natty:

Well it's Cardiac Hill, which is what I colloquially call it. So it's this hill and it just goes on forever and ever. But it's quite funny because I went there not that long ago with you, Joshua, and the hill's not that bad. Like compared to what we've tackled in our other runs, it's actually not that bad. Um, but it took me years to be able to run, um, and as I said in our chat, you know, it took me a very long time to be able to complete uh any of my runs non-stop. Um and look, most of that was psychosomatic, it's all all up in the head, as you know. Um, and I just yeah, it was, oh no, I've got to stop. I've got to stop. So be, you know, maybe after the first three Ks, but back then it was probably after one K, and I'd stop every K and Yeah, have a drink of water or stretch the knees. But um, I just had it in my head that I just couldn't run non-stop, that that just wasn't me and probably never would be. And so yeah, just talked myself into having to stop quite often, like a lot.

Joshie:

Yeah. And you're right that that sort of perception of what's a hill definitely changes. I think anyone who finds um the uh cardiac hill at uh uh at the TAN a challenge, I encourage you to run Nambor Park Run and then go back to TAN and you'll you'll see that uh you'll you'll you'll fly up there. Now look, it was around that time, I think was it 2010 or thereabouts that you you noticed that you were getting sick a lot. Um what can you tell us about what was happening around that time? 2007, actually. Oh, okay, 2007, there we go.

Natty:

Yeah, I did. I um look, I started with flu symptoms, um, so had really bad flu. And I guess, you know, being a smoker, it affected me when I was sick a fair bit more like the respiratory side. Um, but I would basically be sick and then two or three weeks later get really sick again with the flu. And this was about four or five times, and I'm like, oh man, I've I've you know, this isn't something's not quite right here. So the GP that I saw at the time um was very thorough. Um said thank you, Nigel. Um and he thought that he heard a heart murmur, but didn't want to say anything, freaked me out at the time just in case, but thought, oh, you know, just you know, for safety, just for you know, just for shits and gigs, let's go and get you checked in by a cardiologist. So I did. And they found out that I actually had a hole in my heart, um, which I think it was a size of a 10 cent piece, which sounds pretty big, but it's actually it's in the grand scheme of things, it's it's not. Um, and now as I've said to you before, most people have this before, like in utero. But then when you're born, it closes over. So, but unfortunately with me, uh that never happened. But I guess growing up, it was never at the point where I was that unwell that it was picked up. It was just I just thought I was unfit and preferred the soft drinks and chalky biscuits than you know, to get out. And because I was so short of breath, I just thought it was because I was lazy. But turns out actually because of my heart. So um had a few options, yeah, had a few options. Um, could have had open heart surgery, could have just left it, and then eventually would have become an issue, probably at this point in my life now. Um, but the option that most people went with was uh like a keyhole type surgery. Um and it's called an ASD closure. So it's an umbrella device, goes in through my groin, through my leg, up um up to my chest, and inside it closes over the um the hole, and then things graft back over eventually. Okay. Um I was only in overnight um hospital, in and out, and um yeah, technology these days and medicine. Um, you know, it was yeah, amazing. And you wouldn't know, I've got no scars, so you wouldn't know that it happened. Um for six months I had to I was on blood thinners, clopidogrel, I think it was called, an aspirin. So I would bruise like a peach if I hit anything. But apart from that, I was pretty good. You know, I felt a bit tight in my chest because there's something in there that's trying to settle in and and um get used to that. And that's I had to be careful. There was no I mean, I wasn't into running or any sport back then, so it wasn't, you know, too much of an issue for me to have a rest. But um I guess, yeah, gradually the checkups that I have had to go um went from six months to twelve months, and now I only have to go every five years and a clean bill of health. And my cardiologist actually says that he wishes that there were more people like me that would get into running um and that sort of thing and do as much as I do. So fingers crossed, that all stays fine now.

Joshie:

So it almost sounds as though it was a a chance discovery.

Natty:

Yeah, yeah, look, it was. It probably took me a little bit longer than I would have liked afterwards because I sort of thought, oh, I've you know, dodged a bullet, I'm all right, I can keep going, you know, as I am. But yeah, it was around 2010, so a couple more years, where I went, nah, I've got to I've gotta really start, you know, looking after myself. I've been given a second chance and lost that weight. Um, but I need to maintain it and healthily because I, you know, I cheated for a long time trying to keep that weight off by stupid things, um drugs, alcohol, uh whatever. Um not healthy diets. Um and I thought, no, I've gotta, you know, look after myself because yeah, I've had this surgery, but I don't know if anything's gonna happen again. So I want to give myself the best chance um at a new lease on life. So February 2010, chuck the dairies out, go on for good. Um I haven't had one since, so it's gosh, nearly nearly 16 years now. So and I did, I had a diary and I kept that um oh for over 2,000 days. I wrote in it every day how many cigarettes, how many days without cigarettes, and I was really chuffed with myself and I, you know, with the important things. And as you know, Joshua, we've started our no alcohol for a month now. Woohoo! That's a little bit it yeah. So just wanted to really look after myself. So 2010, I did start getting more into running. It was still the stop start, and that was that's you know, was for a long time after that. But I did my first fun run, which wasn't so much fun, but it was 10k run Melbourne um with friends, and we dressed up as Disney princesses, wore tutus and gold crowns, and I finished that. It was an hour and four, an hour and four minutes and some change in the world. That's pretty good. Yeah, look, I was a bit dirty on myself. Oh, should be able to get under an hour. But you know, when you haven't ever run 10Ks before and you know, walked a little bit, but overall I was I was pretty happy. Um finished first out of all my friends, so I was pretty happy with that.

Joshie:

Well, in a moment we'll talk about uh I guess redemption the following year. But can you tell us what was happening in terms of your mindset in 2011? You start to tackle bigger goals. I mean, yeah did your relationship with running have any influence on how you saw yourself, or did that take a bit longer? No, that took a lot longer.

Natty:

It was probably more when I moved to Queensland that that that I started to look at myself more differently. It took me a long time, took decades for me to, yeah, probably really feel comfortable in myself. There's still days, as you know, but nothing compared to what it was like growing up. Yeah.

Joshie:

But I think that's a good thing. I spoke a few days ago in preparation for uh today. Uh sorry, Maddie, we'll come back to your question, two ticks. Um but you you you mentioned that there was a I don't know, you had almost a bit of a mindset shift in 2012. I think you sort of thrived on having that uh group of friends around you to help get over the line with that sort of first 5k fun run and then the that 10k event where dressed up, you know, with um with with as princesses with friends. Something must have changed then around 2012 because you know, not only did you You start I guess setting yourself goals like time-based goals, but you ran it alone.

Natty:

Yeah, look, I guess for that friend group, I was, you know, hoping, oh, great, this will be, you know, the start of doing runs together. And this was before park run, so none of that was around. But I thought, you know, head down to the tan. But kind of after that run that we did, that was one and done for the majority of the girls. But Ike was like, oh, I kind of enjoy this now. So but I yeah, it was by myself, and you know, the partner I had at the time, he the next following year, he was like, Oh, well, you know, I went to the first one, don't need to go to the second one. It's all by myself. But I took five minutes off my time and I got under an hour. I think it was 58 oh 58.40 or 58.50. But I was like, bloody done it, and I don't care if anyone's here to see it. So I patted myself on the back. Gave myself a high five.

Joshie:

And this would have been back before Strava, so there's probably an imminent record of your achievement.

Natty:

Um there is, and I have it. In um, I have the Herald Sun or the Age paper, and it's got both my times in it, and it's in a shoebox downstairs. So I do have it.

Joshie:

For our younger listeners, you may want to Google what a newspaper is.

Natty:

They're online.

Joshie:

Um to you now. You're gonna ask that.

Matty:

Yeah, no, I was just I and this is a different question than what I was gonna ask, but you know, running alone is not an easy thing to do. Um, you know, it can get into your head, um, but it can also be one of the best things to do. But where and I know you went through like a negative health experience, or not negative, but a health um issue. Um, but where was that drive? Like people need to like running five and ten Ks is not easy. It seems easy in in your head, but it's not easy. So to do that 10 on your own and to train on your own, you've got to have something in you. What what what was yours?

Natty:

What was it like I said, I I guess back then, like I was at very stop start with my with my running. So it wasn't like I would do the 10ks in one hit and the training, I probably got up to seven K's, but I was like, nah, I I'm gonna do it. I like I've you know back then worked as hard as I had on running ever before. So up until then, I was like, no, I'm you know, I'm gonna do this. And if no one's there, well, I'm be there for myself. So it was probably the start where I started to sort of build back a little bit more confidence and go, yeah, fuck it, you've done you know, you've done it. You've done that and you've done a couple more. Let's start adding during the week. So I gradually built up. Um, I was probably doing two or three runs a week. And it was, yeah, back then it was that escape like a crappy work day or just bored at home. It would, yeah, allow me to just get out, chase the chase the cobwebs in the legs and the and the head. It was more mental, probably, for me, just getting out there and yeah, being amongst nature and outdoors. As you know, I hate running on a treadmill. I hate it. I can't do more than two or three hundred metres. Like, honestly, like I can run a marathon now, I can say that, but I cannot do more than a couple of hundred metres on a treadmill. I just get bored, and it's so easy to just hit that button and go, no, I'm stopping now and getting off. Yeah.

Joshie:

I think I've watched too many YouTube fails as well that sort of displays me if we're ever giving giving it a go. Just adding to what Matt was saying before about running solo. I mean, uh, for some people they find it easier to run alone. Um, other people, it's the opposite. Uh, what is it for you? Because I get the sense that you do prefer to run on your own. What is it that running by yourself gives you that nothing else does?

Natty:

Yeah, look, I guess it it gives me the freedom to decide like what I want to run that day. Like, do I if I do need to stop? And I guess that's why sometimes I do like to run with people, because it pushes me a bit more. Um, but there there's sometimes I still have that confidence issue where I'm like, nah, I'm not gonna run fast enough for the group today, or you know, I'm gonna slow everyone down, or I'm gonna have to stop and go to the toilet and don't want people to see that. Now I'm like, I don't care. But yeah, I guess it's just yeah, being by myself and just totally letting myself go. Um, it's an amazing feeling. Especially we're very fortunate up here with the places where we can run. Um, and I like to mix it up. Sandgate, Kedron, from home, whatever. Um, it's just nice to get out and about. And yeah, I do like going by myself because I set my own pace. Uh, I stop for water if I want to, and don't feel like I'm holding anyone up. Don't get me wrong, I like running with others, but yeah, for me, definitely do like it being a solo runner. Sorry for all those that I usually run with.

Joshie:

Now, Nat, you moved to Brisbane at the start of 2019 from memory and got stuck into boot camps, I think, pretty much straight away. And you started to raise the bar higher uh higher and higher in terms of goals. Um, what is it for you that unlocked that next level of self-belief?

Natty:

Yeah, look, it was probably it, yeah, I wanted to focus on fitness. Um, I guess at the time I wasn't really thinking about my mental health, I was more physical health, but along that journey, both, you know, it helped both. But um, I'd started doing a few PT sessions um and going to these Saturday boot camps with uh Roger. Hello, Roger. Um uh but then he introduced um me to me that there was um going to be a boot camp challenge, and I'm not sure if everybody knows, but I might be a teeny bit competitive. So it kind of goaded me into joining up. But um, so at the start, look, it was it was fun. Like there's different, you know, you did workouts of the week and did boot camps and tackling stupid tomb terrace hill, running up that and getting attacked by minor birds. That was fun. Um but um as it got closer, probably to the end of it, that's when I sort of felt that oh, maybe this wasn't right for me because I took it way too seriously. I was weighing myself every day, I was yeah, not eating as much, but still exercising, you know, not feeling great about myself. And it was literally the night before. Oh, and we had to you had to do body scans at the start and end. So it and it was based on how much weight you'd lost, uh body fat composition, and muscle gain. Um, but all I could see was the scales and that I didn't think I had lost enough to be anywhere near close to winning, and all I had in my head was I have to win this. Um so it was the night before, and I remember saying to Josh, I was like, Do you know what? I don't even I'm not even gonna go tomorrow. Not even, you know, put myself up. I'm just gonna say, you know, that was good, I'm not gonna do it. But um, you know, wake up in the morning and went, oh, you know, no, I'll do it. And then I don't ever want to do another one of these challenges again. But anyway, I well, I actually ended up coming first in the challenge. Uh so yeah, look, I and that's when I sort of went, oh, holy shit, like I can, you know, if I put my mind to something, I I can do it. Um so yeah, it's a pretty big thing. Um so kept doing my boot camps. Um, and oh Josh Josh also knows for a while I was doing two boot camps at the same time because I felt guilty giving up one boot camp over the other.

Joshie:

Wow, that's right. The old double subscription.

Natty:

It's like, what are you gonna do if the other one finds out? I don't know, deal with that if it happens. Never happens.

Joshie:

The old boot camp love triangle. That was so fun to watch that play out. Something must have changed for you then, Nat, around that time because you know you were still running. I mean, you you seemed back then to be enjoying the boot camps more than what you were enjoying the running, but there must have been something that changed because all of a sudden around that time, or maybe it was a little bit later, a sub-two-hour half marathon became a big focus for you. What can you tell us about your first uh attempt, or maybe it wasn't an attempt at uh running a sub two hour? Take us back to your first half marathon.

Natty:

No, the first one wasn't an attempt, it was just um you'd been you'd been training um for a half, and I just went, all right, I'm gonna I'm gonna give it a shortcut. Oh, training.

Joshie:

I thought you said that I'd been draining.

Natty:

Oh no, true. No, you'd been training. Um and but if I do recall, I was the one that got to 18Ks in training and you didn't quite get there for your training.

Joshie:

No, that you made it to 14 or 15, but didn't matter in the end. Uh no.

Natty:

But um, yeah, the first one that I did was Jetty to Jetty. Uh gosh, 2023, I think. 2023?

Joshie:

Only three less than three years ago? No. I reckon so.

Natty:

Maybe 2022. Um, let's go with that, 2022. Uh Jetty to Jetty. Um and I was yeah, shitting myself thinking, oh my god, there's no way I'm gonna be able to run 21.1942, whatever it is, a lot of this. Um, actually more because you add all the extras. Yes. I don't know. I just I started running and you know, I started to actually get really emotional um in that in those first couple of minutes, just you know, all right, I'm doing it. I started crying like I hadn't even I wasn't going for a time or anything. I just wanted to to finish it. Um and you know, got to the end, the last three or four Ks. I was clocking five minute 20 pace. So I'm like, gosh, I had something left in the tank. So by the time I finished, I think it was two hours and two minutes and something. So I was like, oh, you know, if I trained for this, maybe I can get under two hours. So the when was it the following year? So it must have been, yeah, 2023 that I signed up for Noosa, and that was gonna be my sub two hour half marathon. Uh however, I got a little bit cocky and um they have run my 10k PB in the half marathon.

Joshie:

Oh my god. Which, by the way, listeners, Maddie's proud of you right now. He's so proud of you.

Natty:

Yeah, he's like, woo! Don't do it. So definitely do not do it.

Matty:

Um I've done it and I know what it feels like.

Natty:

Because I died.

Matty:

I've done that, Nat, and I know what it feels like. And it's it's all good for 5k, and you think you're, you know, you're killing it, and then all of a sudden, boom. Yeah.

Natty:

Woo! Yeah. So now I got to 11k and I was feeling bloody fantastic. I'm like, this shit's easy. Like, what is everyone talking about? Then just after the 11k mark, I died. Uh, literally, and it was a stop start for the rest of it. So I think I ended up on I saw the two-hour bloody pacer sail past with these stupid balloons go past. I wanted to pop them all.

Joshie:

I'm gonna pop those motherfuckers.

Natty:

Absolutely. Uh so yeah, I think it was two hours and six minutes. So you know, I'd actually done some training for this and I'm like freaking hell. Like, I've even trained for this and can't do better. I'm like, all right.

Joshie:

But you decided to back up after that. It was only a couple of months later, I think you tackled DJ G once again. Yeah.

Natty:

Um had a bit of training by yourself.

Joshie:

And um Yep, but you were following, I think, my training process which was like stupid four-minute pace things.

Natty:

And I'm like, what's going on? Um, and then you thought it might be a good idea to shout at me during No, that's not quite Josh what happened. Yes, it is.

Joshie:

We need a bit of context here um before anyone starts picking up the phone. Um I I think it was only like a year earlier. Um, yeah, because the Tokyo Olympics were a year later. They're in 2021. And I'd seen in the last leg of the Decathlon, Cedric Dubler drop back to support Ash Maloney, who was in contention for a medal at the time. And so um Cedric Dubler was a was a much faster 1500 meter runner, but he decided to slow down uh to support his countrymen. And there's this, I encourage everyone to look it up. There's this incredible footage of him shouting in the ear of Ash Maloney, go, come on, you can do this. And I was like, reckon Nat will respond to that.

Natty:

I responded. But no, that's true. You did. You're not at the you're not at the Olympics.

Joshie:

I know. We came to a complete standstill, and it was like, oh, yeah, wipe away the tears. Yep. You're sitting in contention for a sub two hours. I was, I was, and 15.

Natty:

I just, yeah, knew at 11k, so I just I was starting to fade. Um so it was a bit of stop start and trying to keep up with those bloody balloons again, and I got to the end. Just two hours and twenty two seconds. So I missed it by 22 seconds, and I was pretty dirty, and I probably invented some new swear words after that.

Joshie:

Um Yeah, see, I knew we were close. I knew we were darn close.

Natty:

Yeah, I just couldn't push anymore.

Joshie:

Yeah, John would say it's actually not two hours and 22 seconds, it's an hour 59 and 82 seconds.

Natty:

He did say that, yes.

Joshie:

Can I ask Nat? Um that was your third, well, I don't want to say third attempt, but the third time running a half marathon and with this belief that you had, and you certainly did have the capability of getting under two hours. Yeah. How do those near misses affect you mentally?

Natty:

Oh, the more that it happened, the more I convinced myself I couldn't do it. And that, you know, that that chabby little fat fucks come back again. And um, yeah, you know, just just not gonna get there. But yeah, so I, you know, I had a little pity party for myself and maybe for a week talked myself down and then just sort of woke up and went, nope, I'm not doing that. I'm not letting it get me. I've let too many things get the better of me in the past, and no, fuck it, that's not happening this time. So I thought, well, Josh has utilized Coach John's plans and he's you know, I know everyone's different, but you know, proper training and you know, doing those long runs, Maddie. Um they do they really help. So I enlisted Coach John and he thought it was gonna be a really simple task because he's looking at my stats and he's like, you should be running at a one hour 49 um half marathon based on these. And I was like, oh well, we'll increase your long runs. I'm like, grass, let's do that. So 12-week program, followed it to the T. Um and yeah, race day came. Uh so this race was this sunny coast, sunny coast half.

Joshie:

Um and we had 2024 was it then? Yep, yeah, certainly.

Natty:

I was gonna say last year, but um it's not now. Yeah, but so yeah, 2024 and the conditions were pretty darn good. I it was out the night before I was still, you know, had a bit of self-doubt and I don't think I'm gonna get it, but you know, I'll just have a crack, just do my best. But um wake up in the morning and I just yep, didn't let those voices take over, and we started running and it felt good. Good. Yeah, it was it dark when we started. I think about it was cool. It was really cajetty.

Joshie:

It it is. I think it starts that early that yeah, it is dark.

Natty:

No, this was sunny coast.

Joshie:

Oh, sorry, sunny coast.

Natty:

Um I can't remember.

Joshie:

It was dark then, yeah.

Natty:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was nice and cold and just you know, trying to say positive things in my head, not let the head own the legs. But I got to 14Ks and I looked at Joshi and I went, I fucking got this. And he's like, Ooh, do we say that at 14Ks? And I went, Yeah, I bloody got it. And and I did, I finally got it. I got me 158, I think it was 40 something, but I got it by over a minute and a half, so I was pretty bloody chuffed. So there was happy tears for a change, not sad tears.

Joshie:

I can't believe how early you started selecting. It was the 14Ks. Um we hadn't even turned at that. Um it's like a you run under the bridge, and I don't think I think we'd even turned. And there was talk about you know, strengthening uh headwinds, like subtleys, I think, towards the end, but uh F the headwinds.

Natty:

Yeah. No, I felt good and I got quicker like towards the end. I just sort of went, my I think my pace was what, 537, what we started with, and just so gradually I think I ended up sprinting at the end. You couldn't catch me.

Joshie:

No, no, it was a yeah, very very well executed race that day. What do you think was different? Um, do you think it was the training? Did you was your prep better?

Natty:

Um tra definitely, definitely the training. Um, because I followed that plan from start to finish. Um obviously, you know, there there's days in your training where you you can't can complete it for whatever reason, whether that's your you know, bad sleep, you're sick, bloody hot, humid days here. Um, and at the start, you know, I questioned myself because I remember one particular training run where I just bloody 800s, I hate them. But I just couldn't do the full set. So I'm like, oh, I can't bloody run 800 metres, I'm gonna run 21ks. Obviously, it's very different. Um, you know, these plans set up sometimes to push us to that point to see where we're at, and it might be we adjust our pace or adjust the training. But yeah, I just yeah, as each run I just felt a little bit better and a bit more confidence in myself to the at the end. Obviously, I'm always nervous before a run. I don't show it, but I'm crapping myself like sometimes almost literally, but not quite. I know you're nervous before that.

Joshie:

Uh I I cleaned the toilet, so I know you were nervous.

Natty:

Thank you, Joshua. I think it was yourself, mate, not me.

Matty:

We digressed. Can I just ask Nat, like there there were a few at a few a couple of attempts there where it didn't go to plan. Um and I uh and you know, everyone's been through that and it hurts. And it does um it hurts for a few days afterwards. But one of the things that um I Yes, a lot of people take out of those failures is the lessons that they learnt throughout that run and what to do, what not to do, that sort of thing. Did with those, with those, and and I think they're the most important runs, because I've failed a lot of times, so they're very important. But but no, but but but they actually are like you take things out of it because endurance running is not something that you just jump into and go hell for leather. You, you know, there's there's ways you run it.

Joshie:

Yeah, absolutely. You know, you decided that 2024 perhaps wasn't quite enough. I mean, yes, you absolutely smashed the uh half marathon sub two hour goal that you set for yourself. I um around that time, I think you professed to never ever do a marathon. If it wasn't just me, a few people tried floating the idea past you. We were idiots. What changed? At some point you went, I'm gonna keep you for it.

Natty:

I got a bit of FOMO after seeing your um Us all collapsed on the ground. Yeah, yeah, literally, you were collapsed. Gold Coast, the first one, you couldn't get up. Nope. Um, and I went, Oh man, I can't just keep doing half marathons now. Like I've you know, tick one and done. And it's not just a tick and flick, because there's obviously a lot of hard work and tears and blood, sweat, and tears, literally. But I was like, Well, what's the next step? Like realistically, it's the 42Ks now, I've got to double it. So once you put it out there and you know Maddie, once you say, Oh, I'm gonna do it, you gotta do it. So all right, that's it. 100% signed up. Signed up for Gold Coast 2025. Yep.

Joshie:

Yep. So once you committed to the process, was there any point that you wanted to back out or were you just every day? Because it's a big undertaking. You you trained hard. Um I think you hear a lot of people in the running um industry, running for eternity, talk about having you know a 12-week block for a uh a marathon. Uh, and I think it is possible having seen other people go from not running massive Ks to being able to, I'll say complete a marathon, and some people are able to execute incredible um races after uh just 12 weeks. But you started training if um if memory serves me correctly in January.

Natty:

So you get there we go.

Joshie:

Um so that's you know, what, six, seven months of training? Um and yes, that was an unintentional reference. Uh six months. Oh no, now I know. Um what can you tell us uh about that period of time? Because that's a huge commitment.

Natty:

Yeah, so look, I not only um went back to John, because I thought, well, you know, it's worked wonders with the first plan. Let's go for let's go again. Uh, but I didn't just get that 12-week plan from him. I got a base building plan, which I wouldn't have been able to do it without doing that base building. Um, the longest I'd run previously, I think I'd pushed it to 22Ks, but um obviously for a marathon you've got to get past 30 K's or you know, 35, 36 in your training to be able to, I think, to be able to run well and complete the race. So I got that, yeah, first 12-week plan, but unfortunately that meant that it had to start in January. So there's some bloody awful runs, um, and then jumping straight into the water at Redcliff after many long runs. But yeah, just gradually built those long runs up. And I do remember you all saying to me, wait, because I nearly died the first time I got to 25. And they're like, wait till that's your short midweek run. And it was, it was one of my midweek runs. Um, I think I ended up getting to 92Ks a week that I was running.

Joshie:

Did you really?

Natty:

Yeah, which is crazy. It was supposed to get, and I remember saying to John, Are you telling me, are you gonna get me? Am I cracking the ton? And he went, hmm, well, we could, but we probably won't. So we did it, which was good.

Joshie:

My next uh question, I don't know that you're prepared for Nat. Um God. I know. Uh you got into quite the routine of um going out to Redcliffe and doing your long runs there and then going for a separate.

Natty:

Talking about this, you bloody bugger.

Joshie:

After Cycloed, Alfred decided to make its presence known. Um yeah, uh it didn't really have too much of an impact on I mean, Redcliffe was hit quite hard by the um by the cyclone, and you know, you stuck to your routine, and I actually I think I was with you on this day, and we're like, yeah, let's go for a swim after a long run. Couldn't believe, despite the perfect weather, just how few people were in the water.

Natty:

No one was in there.

Joshie:

No. Why not?

Natty:

Well, because unbeknownst, uh it was you, myself, and Lisa. Yeah. Unbeknownst to us, there was a dirty big sign that said uh no swimming in the water, possibly fecal matter in there. So there's poo in the water.

Joshie:

So um we saw the sign uh that said beach open, but I think we were both curious about what the other side of the sign said before you go into the water. It said, yeah, beach open. Don't swim in the poo water.

Matty:

It looks so comfortable in there. I remember watching you thinking, yeah, they're up to their necks and they're you know, there's no one else.

Joshie:

That was up to her nose in that wall.

Natty:

Yeah, I got I got a bloody face thing. Oh, it's awful. I call it shit face. I had to go to the doctor because I got this like bloody sea creature thing.

Joshie:

Flesh eating thing.

Natty:

Yeah, on my face. Like, and I was like, oh my god, this is disgusting. I like can't go out in public. So I was like, oh, we have to do all like private runs now. But finally went and saw a really good doctor. Thanks, Dr. Delart. And uh got on some very strong antibiotics and topical creams, and uh yeah, face is all right now.

Joshie:

Yeah, quite a few setbacks during that um training program, and not only did you have this flesh-eating bacteria attack your face, um well. Um I think it was what, four weeks out from the marathon? Um, everything was going reason three weeks. So things were going reasonably well to plan until it it wasn't.

Natty:

No, my knee. So uh it it's classic overuse injury that most people get with their training. Um I just think it might have been one too many weeks that I had done and my knee just gave out like it shit itself. Now, in saying that, probably what it's that's where the pain referred to as my knee, but it was um two areas. It was my quads and my calves. So I ended up having to go um see physio Nick. Thanks, Nick, for your wonderful work. But um had some dry needling and I've never felt more pain um in my in my calves than then um, but you know, that helped and a lot of remedial massage and him digging into oh my hip flexors and oh gosh, it was painful. Um and I was like, well, you know, this is it. Not gonna be able to get to the marathon. Um all this hard work, six months, so I got a bit got a bit down. Had a big fat cry at Sandgate, resting against a pole. I think someone may have thought we were having a domestic dispute. It wasn't me. It wasn't me. For once it wasn't me.

Joshie:

You still had the remnants of this flesh-eating thing on your face and stuff like that. I didn't know it was hopefully people didn't try and join dots that day. So what then happened? Can you tell us yeah, because you're typically at taper during this stage, so you're doing yeah, more quality runs, but they would have felt quite uncomfortable for you, I imagine.

Natty:

Yeah, look, what I ended up I had to um change my training for those last three weeks. I had to drop a few runs, but um I just checked in with John and he's like, you know, it's you're three weeks out, it's not like you're three weeks in. Obviously, that would have been very different. Um, and he goes, You've done the bulk of it. So he told me which runs to keep, but whenever that pain got too much to stop. Um so I did, and look, I was able to do most of the rest of my training block. Um I didn't get to do that last 36k run with the mixture of marathon and threshold because that's what pushed me over the edge. But um I think I'd done I'd done enough long runs. I think I'd done five or six over 30k, so I reckon we did, including some marathon pacing in there. So look, I was nervous, but I thought, well, I've done everything right. I've done all my all my training, I've done all my physio and followed um all the exercising and things that Nick had got me to do, and I thought, well, there's nothing much more I can do. So let's do it. Let's see how we go.

Joshie:

And how did race day go?

Natty:

Yeah, look, race day was great, although I needed to pee into the second kilometer. I'm like, oh god, that's and that's like a runner's worst dream is second worst. Yeah, needing to crap yourself or be yourself. And I'm like, what am I gonna do? Um but I just sort of went, you know, all right, get to 5Ks and then we'll stop. So I got to five and I went, no, we're right, get to 10, get to 15. And I just kept pushing it until I got to 35ks and I went, nah, it's gonna wait. I'm not going to the toilet now. I'm just not doing it. Um, everything fell into place. Um I felt really, really strong up to 32, 33 Ks. I felt amazing. I thought I can keep going. Um, and then gradually between that 32 and 35 mark, you know, uh that lactic acid builds up and my hamstrings were starting because I'd had an issue with hamstrings um prior to the marathon, but um I think all what would we do? We just stopped at the 35k mark. I just stretched my legs, maybe what, 30 seconds, a minute?

Joshie:

Yeah, not even. Not even. Yeah.

Natty:

Um, had some water, and it was actually some lovely people like, oh, do you need some electrolytes? Do you want some jelly babies? And I'm like, no, no, no, I'm good. I'm gonna get back into it, but thank you. And um, so kept going. And um I can say that I completed my first marathon. Um uh no walking, which is pretty good effort for your first one. And um, I think it was four hours. I wanted under four hours and fifteen minutes, and I wanted to beat that bloody four-hour 15 pacer who was in a dinosaur costume. I'm like, I'm not letting a dinosaur beat me today. There'd be enough people in suits and things. I'm not letting a bloody dinosaur beat me. Um and yeah, I did it. Four hours and fourteen minutes and ten, or was it 10 or 15 seconds? I don't remember now.

Joshie:

Small amount of change there.

Natty:

Small amount of change. Yeah.

Joshie:

I wouldn't mind um yeah, sort of looping back to where we started this uh conversation around your perception of your of yourself. I mean, you sort of mentioned that it took a while for that to start to change. I mean, after successfully completing a marathon, um, how would you describe how your perception of yourself has changed through running?

Natty:

Well, look, I don't doubt myself anymore. I know of like if I set myself up for something, um, unless you know there's injury or something, then not well, even then I can get it done. Um so yeah, like I still have those days. Like I think ev everyone has one or two days where they question their abilities and their and their selves, but uh I let those voices sort of fizzle out more now and just go, no, I'm getting this done. So yeah, it looks tough sometimes, but it's easier now, yeah, to to get through it. Yeah, which is good. Yeah.

Joshie:

What does running mean to you now?

Natty:

Oh, well, look, you know, running's very important to me now. It's you know, where I can get out of my head, I can run by myself, have some me time, which is nice. Um, but also, you know, I found this amazing running community and it's not just people, it's I've found an amazing group of fri, you know, people who I call like some of my closest friends now, you know. A lot of those people were at our wedding and we have at our barbecue cocktail nights, and it's great. And, you know, we don't just talk about running, but um I've I found it hard and I struggled when I moved up here, leaving, you know, all my family and friends back in Melbourne and didn't think I would find that again. But I'd been great, like that community. There's some amazing people, and yeah, I just love it. And you know, our group chats were always talking about some bloody headwind or someone's chafing or what pair of shoes Maddie's gonna buy. What shoes I bought. And how can I hide these from Sarah?

Joshie:

Not really, not really. Um underestimate how um how much value we get from that banter um, because running can be quite lonely at times, and I think having you know, taking the piss out of each other, it's you know, it kind of in an ironic way, I think it just helps to motivate us to keep going. But look before we finish up, Natty, what's on the horizon for 2026 in terms of goals, if there is anything for you?

Natty:

Yeah, look, look, I think I've sort of stepped back a bit. Like I'm I've signed up, I've got a marathon for next year, but I'm not so much, it's you know, I think I I'll probably try and, you know, go a bit quicker maybe and do this, like not wanting to walk it, but I think I'm more focused on strength training um at the moment, building up muscles because you know I'm at that age as a woman, 44, you know, it's not getting any easier. As you know.

Joshie:

Maybe it's just we're a woman.

Natty:

No, living with one, living with one.

Joshie:

I'm gonna be gonna be a big one. Yeah, he doesn't know what to say here.

Natty:

But um, yeah, I'm wanting to sort of I want to keep running, like that's very important. But I think it's not gonna I'm not gonna run as much um or as many K's as I did, and it'll be more part of my strength training than I do a fair bit of running. Obviously, I'll have a training block for the marathon, but that's this year, uh 2020.

Joshie:

So sign up for Gold Coast.

Natty:

I am yeah, and that's the only thing I'm signed up for at the moment, but I'll see what happens. But yeah, I think it's more focusing on that strength training, which you know helps with running anyway. Um but yeah, so Gold Coast, see how we go again, check in with me.

Joshie:

Or don't we'll certainly be um yeah, we'll certainly be watching your journey, um Nutty. And yeah, look, thanks so much for taking the time to join us on Run Believable. Um I can say this from the bottom of my heart that you're truly a quality human who's worthy of every success that you turn your attention to.

Natty:

Thanks, fellas.

Joshie:

Absolute blast speaking to you. I can I can say the same too. Yeah, definitely. Oh, thanks, Matt. Definitely, Nat. Thanks, Nat. Appreciate your time.

Natty:

See you guys.

Joshie:

You know, Maddie, I've known Nat for over eight years now and do a lot of my running with her, but there I there are things I learnt about her today that I had no idea about.

Matty:

Yeah, totally agree, mate. I mean, I've I've known Nat for a little bit now, and I think I I learned a lot there. Um, I actually got to see a bit of a different side to her and that um that grit and determination to to you know achieve what's important to her um, you know, in terms of her running. So it's you know, it's not records, it's not that sort of thing, but those little goals she sets and she goes and gets them. So very impressive.

Joshie:

How did you find a very or thinly veiled swipey yourself with the long runs?

Matty:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's right, that's right. But I think and and it goes back to what I said, you know, those um those runs that don't work out, they're they're less you know, take from them what you're there to.

Joshie:

Yeah, that's so true. And look, that's it for today. If you have a unbelievable story of your own, we'd truly love to hear it. And if you'd like to be a guest on the show, then hit us up. Finally, this podcast relies on your continued support. So if you can please take the time to follow Ray and share this podcast with your running mates, we'd really appreciate it. And we'll see you at the next unbelievable event.