Ep 32: She Planned Everything Perfectly… Until Life Had Other Ideas

Mads Biddulph-Wall always had a plan.

As a teenager, she was already thinking about career pathways, maternity leave, and the future she wanted to build.

But when it came time to start a family, life took a heartbreaking turn.

In this episode, Mads opens up about pregnancy loss, grief, and the period where she felt like she lost her sense of self.

Then running entered the picture.

What started as a way to cope slowly became something much bigger.

Follow Mads' journey: https://www.instagram.com/runmadsrun/

Heartfelt is a volunteer organisation that supporteed Mads through professional photographic memories when Beau was born. She has since run in their aid raising nearly $3,000: https://heartfelt.org.au/

In this episode:

• Multiple miscarriages and pregnancy loss
• Feeling like a shell of herself after grief
• Discovering running as a way to regain control
• Going from non-runner to marathon finisher
• How loss changed her perspective on life

***This episode is dedicated to Beau Jude Biddulph-Wall. Fly, little wing.***

Runbelievable — real runners, unreal stories.

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Transcript

Intro

Mads 0:07

I'm so excited for you, and I'm so proud of you. And you're actually so much sportier than you give yourself credit for. And you do that, Twilight Netball, and don't let anyone bring you down.

Joshie 0:22

Hello everybody and welcome to Run Believable, the podcast that celebrates why we run. I'm your host, Josh Christian, and I'm here to bring you stories about what's got people running and what keeps them waiting up day after day. From the last and the lessons to feeling every bit your age, this is why we run and how it shapes who we become. Coming up in just a couple of moments, you'll meet a runner whose life plans were cruelly disrupted when it came time to starting a family. What started as a way to cope with loss has quickly become something much bigger. With running now playing a central role in how she's rebuilding and moving forward in life. Also in this episode will be our weekly quiz, the Run Believable rundown, and a shameless suggestion to follow our podcast. But first, joining me today in the co-host seat is Natasha Snedden. Now, Natasha, welcome back to Run Believable.

Natasha 1:12

Thanks, Josh. Thanks for having me back. I'm really excited to be here.

Joshie 1:16

I'm glad you settled on Josh and not Joshie. It actually sounds more natural. Sorry, listeners, we had a bit of a debate beforehand about whether Natasha should go with Josh or Joshie, and I think we found the answer.

Natasha 1:27

Well, it's not too late for me to start calling you Joshy, so just be careful what you say.

Joshie 1:32

That's true. We might have to do a bit of a listener poll or something. Now, you um you shared your journey with us back in January, and since then you've been battling quite a few little niggles and injuries. Um, but you somehow surprised yourself recently with a half marathon PB. Um talk me through that day.

Natasha 1:49

Um, okay, so um my coach, um, I'd messaged him the day before and I was like, do I run easy pace or what? Because I think I was low-key battling um whether to go for a PP, like deep down. Yeah. And he said, just don't get injured. So um, yeah, with that in mind, I started the run thinking it's an easy run and it very quickly was a PB. It was a good day.

Joshie 2:16

Well, congratulations. Um, just over the two-hour mark. I mean, were you sort of hoping to sneak under the two hours, or are you sort of just progressively working your way there and sort of confident that one day it'll happen?

Runbelievable Rundown

Natasha 2:26

Yeah, look, I was watching my pace during that run thinking I was on pace for two hours. But um, anyone who's done the Hoker Runaway half marathon will know that it's incredibly hilly. So um unfortunately, the hills after the 16k mark got me. Um walk a couple of times. It is what it is. Um, but yeah, like I was only one minute off it. I'll get it next time.

Joshie 2:48

Yeah, good on you. Yeah, I think you did great. Um now look, let's get stuck into the unbelievable rundown. Now look at the intro, I made reference to feeling every bit my age. Um, and I've had quite a few moments recently that have well and truly reminded me that I'm in my mid-40s in Tasha. I um uh a few days ago was sprinting with my son, and uh my goodness, uh, as you get older, those yeah, sprinting leaks just seem to fail you. Um I don't know. That sounds so fun though. Uh yeah, it's fun until you just go, geez, what happened to my hamstrings?

Natasha 3:19

Like hey, out of curiosity, were you inspired by tease?

Joshie 3:24

You know what? I think partly it was tease inspiring me, but also yeah, look, I think deep down it was. Yep. I won't deny it. I mentioned it to Charlie and he said, Yeah, well, let's go and do some sprint stat. And um, yeah, I tell you what, I was cooked. I don't know why. Even just trying to run at 1k time trial pace was a bit of an effort, but anyway, um back into the gym, I guess, and trying to build some strength in those um in those hamstrings of mine. Um the other thing that I found really revealing, I don't know if you ever look at your um fitness score on Strava. Like it's something I try to not know. You do. Yes, I do.

Natasha 4:04

Okay. Well, actually less less Strava, more Garmin.

Joshie 4:08

Yeah. I don't look at the Strava, sorry, the um Garmin one, but yeah, Strava produces this fitness score and it's at an all-time low at the moment. So do you want to know something? It's accurate. It correlates with how I'm feeling. So Strava, thumbs up. You've done a great job there with your algorithm.

Natasha 4:27

That's cool.

Quiz Time: The Answer Is HOKA

Joshie 4:28

Um, where was I? Okay, so look, if you are enjoying the podcast and you haven't already, please do consider subscribing. It's the best way to stay informed when new episodes drop. And you'll also be supporting the podcast to continue growing. Now, Natasha, I have a sneaking suspicion that the only reason you agreed to step in today was because you love a quiz.

Natasha 4:48

Look, I love sucking at a quiz.

Joshie 4:53

I think you profess to be uh just before this call that you're averaging between zero and one out of three. So I promise you that I did say to you that it um it wasn't going to be a shoe quiz, but uh I kind of tell a lie, there's one question in there that may be shoe related.

Natasha 5:11

There's always a shoe question, I suppose. There is.

Joshie 5:14

But I think you'll get this one right because you may have already said the answer, believe it or not, in the yeah, you'll have to start racking your brain about what we've spoken about on the call, but anyway.

Natasha 5:24

Who's?

Joshie 5:26

We'll see. No excuses, no excuses with this one, Natasha. Um Okay. Uh I'll say that because you actually participated in this event, the um runaway Sydney half. So the event was held quite recently, as you know.

Natasha 5:40

Imagine I still get them wrong.

Joshie 5:42

Well, look, I think uh two of them I think are a little bit tricky, but one of them um one of them I think you'll you'll go okay with. Question number one. Now, as you know, you mentioned this before, it's quite a hilly course. What is the elevation gain over the half marathon? Is it A between 50 and 150 meters? B between 150. Don't get your watch out. I already know the airplane. B between 150 and 250 meters, or three greater than 250 meters.

Natasha 6:12

Well, I'm gonna blow your mind. It's 186 meters.

Joshie 6:15

Oh, you are bang on the money. I am so impressed.

Natasha 6:19

I was quite the SD.

Joshie 6:22

Oh, wow. Um, so yes, officially it's 186 metres. I checked your Strava, you had 201 meters, so um, yeah, always gonna be natural variation. But geez, that's a yeah, that's a fair bit for a half marathon. So yeah, you did quite well. I think, like you say, once you're running on a flat course, you'll um you'll smash that two-hour mark, Natasha. I have no doubt. Thank you. Question number two. To participate. The minimum age that you must be on race day is it A twelve, B, fourteen, or C 16?

Natasha 6:58

Oh gee, I have no idea. Um I know what it is for a marathon, but yeah, I think I saw a picture that had a kid in it. I'm gonna guess 14.

Joshie 7:08

It's actually 16.

Natasha 7:10

Oh, maybe that wasn't a kid.

Joshie 7:13

So f find that photo and report them to the uh marathon integrity guys. Sure, they'll do something about it. Um, do you want to something for what it's worth? I also would have guessed 14. Um, yes, and as you know, um well, what do you know what is the marathon minimum age?

Natasha 7:29

Oh god, now I'm gonna get it wrong. Um I think it's 18.

Joshie 7:32

Yep, it is 18. Well, I think for sanctioned events, um, yeah. Don't know if that's a global thing or an Australian thing. Maybe a listener can let us know, but certainly here it's um they're typically 18 years of age. Uh okay, question number three. Who was the major shoe sponsor for the event?

Natasha 7:50

Oh, it was Hogan. Sorry, was that multiple choice? Oh my god, I got two right.

Joshie 7:59

The other options that we had. You can you know what you can give the listeners a chance to uh get their get their answers in. That's right, we'll edit that bit out at the start again. Was it A, Hoker, B, ASICs, or C on?

Natasha 8:16

Yeah, it was Hoker.

Joshie 8:19

It was indeed. Tell you what, that's effective branding because I don't know if you remember when we started talking, you talked about having participated in the Hoker Runaway Um Sydney half. That's effective advertising if you've got that uh committed to memory.

Natasha 8:33

Yeah, I like I only call it Hoker to be honest, but um um I'm pretty sure Runaway is the proper name. So I'm trying to keep it in my mind to include runaway, but normally I just say the Hoker half.

Joshie 8:44

What is Runaway? Is that like just an event um management company or something?

Natasha 8:50

Like I'm not 100% sure, but they've got a series of races.

Joshie 8:53

They do. Yeah, they do Noosa as well, I think. I think it's Runaway Noosa as well.

Natasha 8:57

Yeah, and I got a couple in New Zealand.

Guest Spotlight: Mads Biddulph-Wall

Joshie 8:59

Ah, there we go. Well, without giving too much away, we'll have to ask our guest because they're from New Zealand. So we'll find all that out shortly. So if you've been playing along at home, please let us know how you've been going. We have a lot of fun with this. Today's guest had it all mapped out. Whilst most 14-year-olds were playing games or hanging out at the shops, this one was studying enterprise agreements to see which one afforded the most generous maternity leave entitlements. What does this have to do with running? You're about to find out. Can we please milk let's try that again. Can we please welcome Mads Bit Off Wall? Welcome, Mads.

Mads 9:35

Hello, I love that.

Joshie 9:39

Uh now look, Mads, I really wish I knew where to start with your life. But how about we go back to uh seven-year-old Mads who got kicked out of social netball? What on earth happened?

Mads 9:50

Oh, poor we little mads. I was the least sporty little gal. Um I think it started earlier than seven because I was talking to my mum the other day and she was like, You do realize you came dead last in cross country? And I was like, You're exaggerating. She was like, no, there was a long pause, and then you came, you came in. So that that's what we're dealing with. That was, I think mum was talking about my first grade um cross country, but that continued. And then, yes, seven-year-old me joined Twilight Netball because I think we were encouraged to take part in some sporting activities, and Twilight was like the more social team at like a funny time of year. And I thought it would be great fun. And I got asked not to play anymore because I wasn't taking it seriously. I think in part because I had quite a scary teacher. If you know, you know, if you went to my school, they'll know who it was.

Joshie 10:51

We won't tag the school, I promise.

Mads 10:53

Um that kind of just like continued the trajectory of and self-belief, I think, in myself that I or lack of belief that I was unsporty and that sport didn't agree with me.

Joshie 11:09

So when you say that you got kicked out of I mean, social netball, they usually tolerate a bit of um chitter-chatter, don't they?

Mads 11:18

Look, I think the details are a little fuzzy. But I recall that there was a conversation and I had to hand my uniform back.

Joshie 11:27

Oh my gosh.

Mads 11:28

And I think I was mostly in it for the uniform. I've always been weirdly into uniforms.

Joshie 11:36

Uh that's fantastic. Um so look, okay, so you came blasting cross country, and look, there's no shame in that. I mean, at the end of the day, we can't be naturally good at um at everything. And we've spoken on, I think, maybe three episodes now about the schools not really supporting those, especially when it comes to physical activity, um, helping to support those that don't keep up. Um, but did you have fun? I mean, you came last, but did you enjoy it at all?

Mads 12:01

Yeah, I think I skipped there might have been some bartwheeling.

Joshie 12:06

Yeah.

Mads 12:06

I've always bought the bikes.

Joshie 12:12

I love that. Um now look, Mads, at the intro, I uh mentioned, and hopefully I haven't misrepresent misrepresented you at all. Uh someone who likes to plan. Um, and uh I know that I've like don't take what I said in the intro literally that you're studying enterprise agreements, but I I took enterprise.

Mads 12:33

This is I sound like such a nutter, but I always knew that I wanted to be a mom. It was the first and foremost goal in my life, which some may look and think that that is ridiculous, but I really was. I was a type A personality at 14 that took enterprise, the subject was called enterprise at school, um, because I was like, what are the things I need to get a bachelor of commerce? Because I want a corporate job with maternity leave benefits. And I think my parents were probably like, okay, sweetie. But I was thinking, I really was thinking about it, and and gosh, I really just like ticked every box as I got older. I took the subjects and I did the Bachelor of Commerce and I did it conjoint with property to increase my chances, and I joined the graduate program. It's crazy how I just like but it's it all was going so well until it wasn't.

Joshie 13:29

My goodness. So you're you're 14 years old and you're studying maternity leave entitlement. So were were most of your friends public servants?

Mads 13:40

Yeah. A little bit of context too is that my mum trained to be a midwife when I was in primary school, and she had shared a lot of that journey with me and a lot of her beliefs about like natural birth and the amazingness of being a mother and all these kinds of things. So it had kind of like shaped my whole perspective about what I wanted and what a successful life would look like, and that my value that I could offer would be as a good mother. So I think that that's what was causing that. But I went about it in a very diligent way.

Joshie 14:17

As you went through high school Mads, did you pretty much stick to that plan? Like did everything kind of get um executed as you had intended?

Mads 14:26

Yes, and I dated with extreme goals in mind. Wow. Even my current husband will tell you. I met him when I was um 20 in a music festival, and I we became friends. We were friends for a year before we dated, and there was a conversation that I had with his mum at a party at her house, and she was like, Why won't you date my son? You'd be great together. And I was like, It's not husband material. I just took it so seriously, and he's the best husband in the whole entire world. It's ridiculous.

Joshie 15:03

So, at what point did you um, if I can ask, let your guard down with things like that?

Mads 15:10

Yeah, oh I think that there's actually something so amazing in what has happened that I've completely changed. I'm not like that at all anymore. I'm so go with the flow. And I think that the if infertility does anything, it's that you can't control it. And how amazing is my life now for having none of my planning pan out apart from all the other wonderful things like my great job and my amazing husband and stuff. Um so as a short answer to your question, I think that like I've changed a lot and I'm not mad about it. It was so immature how I thought that everything that one plus one equals two for your whole life, because that was just not the case.

Joshie 16:00

So at this point, you're sort of what, mid-20s or thereabouts, and pretty much everything's gone according to plan. Um, you people working in the job that you wanted to work. Um you found the husband that ticked all the right boxes. He filled in he filled in the form and uh did all that kind of stuff. Um But then it came time to starting a family and things didn't quite go according to plan, as you've just um touched on it. Is that something that you feel comfortable talking to us about?

Mads 16:29

Yeah, absolutely. It's shaped so much of my journey. It's really relevant.

Joshie 16:34

So, what can you tell us about what was happening around that time?

Mads 16:36

Yes. So you have all the context about my intentions. Um we got married in m firstly, just uh so I met Jared when we were 20 at a music festival. It was just it's such a cool thing, I think, to have met in person. Nowadays I think that's so rare. Um, and we were friends and we started dating the the the year later. Um, and I just knew straight away, I was like, I found him. He's the guy. Um and um I think he wasn't quite so quick with them, and that's fine. Um I um we ended up I think quite early on, but probably after about six to twelve months, we moved into a little flat together, and I was like, this is it, I'm loving it, it's perfection. Um, and I was talking about it really early on. I want to be a young mum, you're gonna meet amazing dad. This is we're on here. And he was being like, this girl is really intense.

Joshie 17:41

So did you did you wait until you're living together before you dropped that bomb, Shirley? I think so.

Mads 17:47

I'm a little hazy, but uh for some context, I did give him on our one-year anniversary, I I made a custom wine label and put it on a wine bottle, and it was like um Mads and Jared, whatever year it was, to forever.

Natasha 18:04

Oh wow.

Mads 18:05

And then when I gave it to him, I was like, we can we can open this wine at our wedding. And he was like, okay. And making it sound like he's really not intimate. He loves me, I swear. But I was just more soul-oriented.

Joshie 18:20

If nothing else, um Matt's you were transparent. I mean, where you're wearing your heart on your sleeve, I think that's quite an admirable trait. Um sounds like um you you know you're accepted for though for for who you are, and um you've at this stage you've gotten married, um everything's going to plan, so it comes time to uh I guess start a family. Um we got married.

Mads 18:42

Yes, we got married in 2019, and in 2020, um we agreed that we were going to start trying. And in the agreement of starting trying, that was that was three months after I had done all the prep. I'd gone on the supplements, I'd had I'd gone to the GP who was very dismissive and was like, pfft, you're 27 years old, you don't need to come to the GP to check if everything's okay. Um and what had I done? I think I'd started maybe getting acupuncture, done all sorts before we even started trying. And in my head, I was like, I have nailed this, I've ticked all the boxes. I've I'm gonna be Jew in one year. And then I started like from the very beginning, I was like, Oh, I'm gonna be pregnant in summer. Imagine the outfits I can wear. This is dreamy. And obviously it didn't end out like that. So um, how it went from then is that we tried for the first year, and because I was so type A, I had looked at all the stats and it was like, well, um, I can't remember the exact stat, but it was a big chunk of people would at for my age would get pregnant in the first year. So I think at about 10 months, I went to the doctor again, and very much I I had changed doctors at that point and very much got laughed out of the session at that one. And I think that's when I really felt like something was wrong because of how I reacted to her being dismissive at that point. I was like, oh no, like I really I need some more help. So then I went to a different doctor and she said, look, we can't do much, but if you come back in after you've tried for a whole year, then we can refer you. And I got referred to a fertility thing, a fertility specialist thing. Um and I wrote down some timings because it's all a little bit blurry now and it was so long ago. But um, the first thing they did was a laparoscopy, which is where they check for endometriosis, because I don't know what it's like in Australia, but it's all about it's helpful to get funding. And yeah, the more s things you have, uh illnesses, conditions you have, then you can get funding. Um and they were really looking for endometriosis or something, but they didn't find anything of note. And then I was diagnosed with um unexplained infertility. Um that was probably towards the uh end of 2021 kind of timing. Um and then the next thing, because it was unexplained infertility, is they recommend this thing called IUI, which is as close as you can get to natural fertilization, um, where the the fertilization happens in your body uh timed with medication. And they recommended that to me because they were like, well, nothing's wrong, and nothing seemed wrong with Jared. So that's what we tried. Um and we had to try that five times and it really wore down mentally because we went into that being like, oh, intervention, it's gonna happen straight away. And that was five long months of taking drugs and very, very unpleasant time. Um and that took us to the end of 2022. Um, and in 2023, I was so excited to start IVF because we were like, enough with this IUI, this is getting ridiculous, it's affecting. Mental health. Um, so we started IVF, and I have this video of me excitedly being like, I VF with my with my arms, because I was like, this is the thing, we're gonna get pregnant. Um, and we did that, and it resulted in seven eggs, and five of those were fertilized. Um wow. And then we so we froze five embryos.

Natasha 22:33

Yep.

Mads 22:34

And then the first transfer was unsuccessful, and then the second one was successful, and I saw the first ever pregnancy test. By this point, it was 2023, so we're like three good years into trying, and that was just the best thing ever seeing a positive pregnancy test. But then we found out that it was identical twins, but they'd miscarried. Um and then we had three embryos left, and we were like, we need a break after the miscarriage because it was just a whole lot, and and I say it was a whole lot. I always approach things with a can-do thing, like it just is what it is, you just get through the day. But that's the kind of thing where when we decided, when we kind of looked at the face value of it, we were like, this has been such an immense experience. We just need a little pause. Um and at that point, I got pregnant naturally. I'm sorry, I'm looking down because I'm looking at the timings. Uh but um that was in 2024, I got pregnant naturally.

Joshie 23:40

You're kidding.

Mads 23:41

Yeah.

Joshie 23:42

I wonder you hear of people, um, actually I have a friend of mine that went through three cycles of IVF, and um it obviously I don't know what science there is behind it. But um, you know, sometimes once you take that expectation or that pressure off yourself, your body just goes, I'm ready now.

Mads 23:58

Do you think part of it was that or it do you think it was just Well, I'm hesitant to the infertility community has fought with different opinions on this and it can be very demoralizing when because it kind of ties into the just relax thing. You get told to relax a lot because there's science about um stress and all these kinds of things. So I'm not so sure possibly. I will lean into that I just really believe in the universe and what's meant for you won't go by you, and all of these kinds of good things. I don't really know, but I just felt so right, so right when I saw that positive pregnancy test.

Joshie 24:43

So can I ask, Mads, were you filled with feelings of euphoria or did you hold back a bit once you saw that?

Mads 24:50

I'm not a hold back kind of a gal. I was like, we're on here. Let's go. Um and that was the coolest thing telling our family because obviously they were so, so involved, and we'd been really open with our family and friends throughout this whole experience, and I think it just took everyone by surprise. And I have such fun videos of us telling my parents and Jared's siblings and things like that. Um, but then that pregnancy became probably one of the most stressful times of my life because we um we got the pregnancy test, and it was so unique because we'd experienced all this intervention and these daily calls from the fertility clinic and stuff, and this was just natural. We were just like, oh, you just make a 12-week appointment, and that's really it in New Zealand. Um so, but because I was a bit anxious, we got a scan at six weeks, and they were like, Oh yeah, it looks okay. I think at that point they said it looked okay, and there was not nothing else was said to us. Um, and then at in New Zealand, at 10 weeks you can get a blood test called a nipped that tells you if there's any genetic um things to worry about. And I had that and that came back, high chance of um abnormality, and I think at that point it did say high chance of trisomy 18, which is Edwards syndrome.

Joshie 26:22

Okay.

Mads 26:23

What we were told was that sometimes the blood that returns that result, because it's all based on that they pull the genes out of your blood. Let me know if I'm going into too much detail.

Joshie 26:34

Um, I'm learning a lot. I actually haven't heard of you say Edwards syndrome.

Mads 26:39

Yes. Yes.

Joshie 26:42

What's that?

Mads 26:42

I I I will get to that. The um the blood test. Sometimes the thing that it pulls the genetic code from can be in the part of the embryo that doesn't become the baby, it can be in the cell thing. So I, of course, clung to that. I was like, it's just that, it's fine. Um and at this point, I was doing a little bit of Google research. And if you Google Edwards syndrome or trisomy 18, it will give you a very dire description that says um severely life-limiting genetic disorder. Um, babies are not expected to be delivered to term. Um, and if they are delivered to term, the life expectancy is less than a year. Um and so then I was being like, well, maybe I wonder what the chances are that it's something else, maybe it's something a lot less serious. Regardless, this started this super long period of waiting for answers because I almost wish I didn't have this of the blood test because they can't see anything on a scan when you're 10 weeks. So the the next thing we waited for was the 12-week scan. And at that scan, they were like clearly trying to make us feel hopeful, and they were like, Oh, look, everything's great. There's the heartbeat, so cute. And they have a really cute video from that scanner who really did look so cute. Um, and they said there's still just a little chance, so we'll send these results to the hospital and a specialist will look at them. But that wait was the worst because our hospital hospital appointment was at like 15 weeks and six days or something. So all these things just had like three weeks in between them of just being so anxious. And I also started to show really early, which was kind of I kind of loved it. But so I told everyone at work because I was like, Well, either way, I want to celebrate this soul. So um, I didn't I didn't tell any everyone about the complications, but I it might sound weird, but it felt right at the time to be like, I'm pregnant, I've got a bump. Um and but then at the appointment at the hospital at about 15 weeks, they did an amniocentesis, which is when they put a big needle through your tummy and they take some of the amniotic fluid. And that took a while to get the results back, but that confirmed that our son did have trisomy 18 Edwards syndrome, which was just the worst thing ever. It was such a hard time, it really, really hard, and especially because it had I d I say especially, probably not, but it just felt even crazier that it had been a natural pregnancy, and then this, like, why this? But then I kind of went down a really deep thing in my brain about how he chose us for a reason and we were blessed to have this natural pregnancy. I was blessed to have a bump and feel pregnant, and maybe this is my shot. This I I was meant to be a mother to this beautiful boy. We also found out he was a boy amongst all these tests. Um so that was just a really tricky time because we then had consultations with doctors and such, and had to make a decision, and the decision that was recommended, and then what we ended up doing is called a compassionate induction, where you end the pregnancy to save a very challenging little life for this little person, because all the research just showed that he would have severe heart, lung, probably like a lot of major organ abnormalities as well as physical abnormalities, and it just yeah, it was so hard and really challenging part of our life. And so all of this after three or four years of trying for that.

Joshie 30:42

No, it's not, it's um can I ask how how long did you have from when you were told what your options were to when you went through with the compassionate in induction? I mean, did you have a chance to tell people who were close to you so you could be supported through that process?

Mads 30:59

Yeah, no, absolutely. Um I because we had been really open with our family and friends, all our close friends knew, even my close workmates knew. Um, so we were all kind of waiting for the results of the amnio. And then um I think it was probably quite quick. Actually, I can I know because he was born at 17 weeks and six days, and the amnio was probably at like it was probably about a week between the birth and finding out. And luckily I worked for an incredible corporate and I just had so much time off, which was needed and so good.

Joshie 31:40

But that that week would have been horrible for you.

Mads 31:43

Yeah, well I mean it sounds crazy, but I I I just it really felt right. I felt like this was my it was kind of my calling. He had found us. We we named him Bo Jude, and I was talking to him all the time. I was like, okay, I'm going to meet you next week. This is happening. Hi, little one. Um, it it sounds crazy, but I would describe like if you asked my friends, I'm pretty sure they'll tell you I was pretty normal and I was just like hanging out with mum and I was researching all sorts of ways to make it more special, um, which I probably won't go into, but we we believe it or not, we we managed to make it a a memorable and quite nice experience at the hospital for what it's worth. And he was cremated and we planted a tree and it it ri it he brought so much joy to our lives. I don't know how to articulate that in a way that makes sense, but he really did.

Joshie 32:52

Oh, Matt's a really s like what a what an awful thing to go through. Yeah. You know, for for context, I mean I um connected with you through a mutual friend on social media, and you have a very active social media profile, which we'll talk about later. I mean, you're seemingly always smiling, Matt. Like when you're running, it doesn't matter what you're doing, everything about your life is seen to be smiling. Um, but those uh those days, weeks, maybe months immediately after you lost Bo must have just been incredibly dark for you.

Mads 33:24

Yeah, I think so. And I think that I probably thought I was doing better than I was. I'm very lucky that my husband Jared has always been the cook in our family because I really just I think I kind of couch burritoed for a long time there. But um I went back to work probably ten days afterwards, and life was pretty normal, um, which I also think is important because I didn't want to wallow. I might have done some wallowing. Um how did life continue? We um I started I was desperate to I had this like compulsion inside me to feel like Bo was known in the world and that he was a person and that he existed. And so one of the things I was Googling was how can I like honour my child? What can I do? Which is how this whole running thing came about because um this charity, Heartfelt, that had helped us so much that this amazing charity, I think they're a reasonably small one, and they're led out of Australia. And what they do is it's a network of professional photographers in Australia and New Zealand that volunteer their time um and their skills to come to hospitals all around Australasia and photograph um dying babies and small kids. Um my gosh. Or or actually once they've passed away, um, which sounds crazy, but it's the most beautiful thing in the world, and I will treasure the photos that we have. Um and through Heartfelt, we had actually a whole maternity uh session the week before, um, and she came to the hospital too. So you can imagine the caliber of these truly incredible humans that take time out of their day to see some pretty confronting stuff and just change really change the lives of the people they're helping. And probably in most cases, the they're never ever no one would tell anyone that they'd receive the service, so they'd it's pretty thankless for them.

Joshie 35:34

My goodness. So they they pretty much exist to help um work through heal like the that grieving process or I guess uh support the healing process.

Mads 35:44

Yeah, absolutely. Um so I found there on their website they had run for us, um, raise money for us through through running. And I was like, oh, how good, because I already mentioned that I loved a uniform, and they gave me a free t-shirt with your child's name on the sleeve. And I was like, this is brilliant, this is what I'm doing. So that led me to sign up for the 11 kilometer race at Auckland Marathon, and the race was in November 2024, and I trained for that like no tomorrow. I think my first run on Striver was in August. So from August to November, I went from zero base fitness to running an 11 kilometer. And it's oh wow. Yeah, and it it changed my life. Look at me now. I'm I'm a completely I've got opportunities every day that I never would have had if I hadn't started running. It's crazy.

Joshie 36:40

So, what can you remember about those early days of of running? I mean, everyone has the a war story of the first time they took those those uh those steps on the pavement.

Mads 36:51

Oh my gosh. I I started running in August, which is like the darkest, coldest month in Auckland. Yep. I think my first runs were probably one minute walking, 30 seconds trying to jog. Um, and I was following a couch to 5k app that was helpful but also joyless. I didn't enjoy it at all at the beginning, I don't think. Um, and I was also, I don't know why, I was doing a very not exciting route and the same one every time. Why did I do that? Um I I don't think it was very good, but I was just so, so wanting to um raise money and not let the people down that were donating because we were we're having such generous friends and family donating.

Joshie 37:37

Are you happy if we put their details in the show notes? Yeah, that'd be so good. Because I I haven't heard of them, but they sound like just one incredible organization.

Mads 37:46

So cool. Yep.

Joshie 37:48

Um I was just gonna ask, so um how did you find your your um your body responded to the I guess um changes with um with running because that that can be quite that can be quite a difficult thing to work through.

Mads 38:05

Yes. I was in an interesting place with my body because it had just been poked and prodded for so long with IVF and drugs and weakly acupuncture and all these things, and it kind of had felt less like my own body and more just like this thing that was attached to me, and I was quite um uh probably feeling probably had very low body confidence. But I think by my nature I kind of am probably dismissive of negative emotions like that, but in retrospect, I think I was probably very unhappy with my lack of fitness.

Joshie 38:45

Um and so it was running away of kind of reclaiming control over your body then?

Mads 38:50

Absolutely, yes. Yes, and and because I had been so type A about everything, and you can read any book, and it will be like, don't do more than yoga and gentle exercise when trying to conceive a child. Um Wowdated. It's ridiculous. Um, and so that's kind of like all throughout I had been like, well, even if I wanted to, I couldn't run. And so I just shared that and did it for me, and it was just incredible. Um, also a little bit of context I missed is that after we had Bo, we wanted to finish the embryos that we had because also I thought, oh, maybe I'm fertile because I got pregnant naturally. Um and we had transferred the third one, and that had been unsuccessful, and then we got special permission to transfer our last two together, and I really thought that that one was the one because I'd read all this research that um doing two together increased your chances, and um anywho, um I did get pregnant and then we miscarriaged that. And that that was the point. I think that's when I signed up for the race. That would have been about like August in 2024, and that was like, we have no embryos left. What the heck am I going to do? Let's just shed all of this need to do it, of to have a baby and just like pause and do something for me. And that was what was for me.

Joshie 40:20

And so can I ask this might be a very, I guess, sensitive question to ask, so feel free to skip it. But um are you just taking a pause and just seeing where life takes you now, or are you sort of recalibrating? Right now life, yeah.

Mads 40:36

Yeah, so no, uh I deeply know within the core of my soul that I will be a mother some way or other. Um, I don't know how like how exactly that that will be, but I just know I and I have so much faith in the universe, and I've manifested all the other wonderful joys in my life. Like I know that it will happen, um, and we've never stopped trying per se, but we just are not currently prioritizing the funds because we going back to the funding thing, because I'm still unexplained, we've never had funding, we won't get a free IVF round and it's really expensive. So it's just all a bit of a juggle, and I know that that is often on the tip of friends and family's tongue, because everyone's like, is this not your key thing? But there's just so many other joys in my life, and I think I probably frustrate people by my implicit trust that we will get pregnant, especially as I get a bit older, because I used to tell everyone about how we were starting early because I knew the stats, and then I wanted to be younger. So to answer your question, like no, I will I'll be a mum somehow. I'm just not quite sure. But I'm not prepared to say that it's not a priority anymore, because it is, but yeah, it's a bit of a funny one.

Joshie 41:56

Yeah, I I loved how how clear you are in your your intentions, and um, I do promise we'll get back to to running. So you've you picked up that I mean you went very quickly from picking up running in August, and I have no doubt, by the way, that if I've got any of these dates wrong that you'll correct me. August 2000 August 2024, you decide to start running. November 2024, you're doing an 11k at uh Auckland. Is it do I get the do I have this right that a month later you then tackle a half marathon?

Mads 42:29

Yes, because um sometime between when I started to train for it, and I think it was when you start getting the long runs increasing every weekend, and I was doing the maths being like, I can get to higher than 11 before November. I I this is I was like addicted to the Strava, being like, this is your longest run. Oh started looking up races, and there's this race in Auckland, the Omaha half. Also, a fun fact about me is that I will find any excuse for a holiday, and it's in like a beach town about less than two hours from our house, and I was like, Jared, we're having a week weekend away. I'm booking this half marathon. And he's like, Okay, sweetie. Um, so yeah, that was like probably exactly a month after the first race, and I think that the high after doing a half marathon was crazy because I never, ever, ever thought that I could do such a thing. It just was not available to me in my brain that someone someone like me, an unsporty person like me, could do a half marathon. So that would be the real clincher of when I was fully hooked, I think.

Joshie 43:43

Yeah. Yeah, you and I caught up a few weeks ago and you said that that was a point that you went all in. Yeah. Then l landed in Sydney September the following year for your first marathon. Yep. You're gonna have to talk me through what that peri that period looked like for you.

Mads 43:57

So it's uh all quite tied into um my husband encouraged me to start my Instagram in December after the half. Um And I was kind of oh, I really didn't know about it. It seemed like a lot of work and I it seemed I hate the word cringe, but I was like, I hope people don't think it's cringe. Um I'm so anti-cringe. Cringe doesn't exist, it's just people thinking about what other people are thinking. Um digress. Um so I caved to my husband's well-intentioned peer pressure and started my page in sort of like New Year's um in 2024. Um and then at that time I was like, I really want another goal in the diary. And my best friend Amy lives in Sydney, so I was like, we should do a weekend away to Sydney in May, and I booked the Hockey half and started training for that. And I also went all in on those in those months to build my Instagram, which was still really small and humble, but right from the beginning, I was seeing such cool opportunities and invitations to things that I just never thought would be available to me. And this kind of made it all even more exciting, and very much it always makes you get out the door for your run because I'm like, what am I gonna post on my story?

Joshie 45:19

So it helps with it. Was your um Instagram sort of building building a community to help support you achieving what's quite an aspirational goal?

Mads 45:28

Yeah, but the the um community I'm trying to build is just all about inspiring unsporty people that they can do hard things. Because if someone like me can do it, literally anyone can do it. And I think it's interesting um as I continue to tick things off like when I did the marathon. I'm always thinking about how I can convey to such an extent of how unsporty I was because I don't want to lose that stop relating to people that perceives themselves as unsporty. I'm still just the unsporty beginner at heart. It that it's crazy to me what I can achieve. Like last weekend I did 24 kilometers and then I helped my parents move out of their storage unit, and it was no big deal. But that that is just ridiculous. Running is crazy, the conditioning that you can have in your body and just your capability to do things. But but I mentioned inspiring people that they can do hard things, and it's the doing hard things that is so core because I feel like I know that I can do hard things after the experience with Bo. And I in a race, I will go back to the hospital and think about that in my brain. That was the hardest thing, and I can do anything if I can do that, and that's the key message that I try to share in my content, even if it gets lost sometimes in the stories about my cute running fits. Um, but sorry, going back to the question about how I got to Sydney Marathon. So I I had trained for the the hawker half um and I was in Sydney to run that in May. Um, and Goo Energy, the gel brand, posted on their Instagram saying, um, we're looking for people to join our team for Sydney Marathon, just create a reel. Um, and I think it was my friend who was like, Oh, we should I I didn't get a ballot entry. I'd quite like to go. Should we do it? And I was like, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, let's do it. I'll make a reel. Then we won the thing and to run the marathon.

Joshie 47:35

So you were like, I've got to do this now.

Mads 47:38

Yeah, and I like I did, I put a lot of effort into the reel, and I was so excited when we won. And I found out when I was at work and I FaceTimed my friend, and I was like, ah, it was so exciting.

Natasha 47:53

Was this 2024 or 2025? 2025. So the first year that it was uh a world major as well. Yeah.

Joshie 48:02

Oh crazy. Oh man, I'm so jealous. Coolest thing.

Mads 48:06

Yeah, yeah.

Joshie 48:07

You ran you ran with Kipchogi then.

Mads 48:09

Yeah, totally. At the similar times.

Joshie 48:15

So you talk me through the race. Um, like how did it how did your prep go? Um were you feeling motivated, energetic on the start line?

Mads 48:23

I think the timing actually ended up being perfection because I had just run this half and I had just got a personal best in in Sydney, and I was feeling so good about my fitness, and then that was exactly pretty much I can't really do the maths, but there was like a really good amount of time before the marathon. So I just cruised into the marathon block. And originally I had I had been training with Runner from quite early on to then. Um, but my coach approached me. Another cool thing that my social media has brought, and he offered to sponsor me. His name is Matt from the Performance Project, and that was game-changing. I still can't believe that I have a coach and he calls me an athlete, which is a whole other thing. Um, so he um my training really stepped up a notch, like my mileage increased, and um I I always have I usually run about four times a week with um like I never miss a Monday recovery style um zone two, proper zone two. Um for that block I was doing no higher than 120 beats per minute for an hour every Monday.

Joshie 49:29

That is that is proper zone. That's almost zone one.

Mads 49:32

Wow, that's like um and then always like one or two speedy sessions and then the long run. And then that just built up and I really liked the structure and I loved, as you know, the Strava notifications, longest run ever. That was so felt like getting a good job sticker every weekend.

Natasha 49:54

So good.

Joshie 49:58

And so on race day, um were you were you feeling ready to go?

Mads 50:04

Yes, I was so excited and it was so cool because my friend Amy that I was doing it with, um, she lives like 200 meters from the start line in um Cora's Nest. And so it was so fun. It felt like a sleepover. We walked down together and um I was just on top of the world that whole day was so special, crazy, crazy times. It's such a cool experience. And I'm so glad that my first marathon was such a positive experience because I think I'll I I feel like I'll run marathons forever now. It's the coolest sport. It is.

Natasha 50:38

Um, on your Instagram I saw some videos where you were sharing some voice memos from fans. Beautiful. What's that about?

Mads 50:48

Oh my gosh. So that was just the best. I recommend that to anyone. And in fact, I think there's an app for it now. I think it's called Rally. Um, but I just had um my mum, dad, granny, and did Jared do one? I don't know if my husband send me voice notes um for me to listen to at the race, and I had them um just like ready to go. It it was a bit of a faff at the time. I had to screen record them without listening to them so that I could save them in my camera roll arrow and open them up. But it was an absolute game changer. I think I listened to dad's one at about 30 kilometers, and it was so heartfelt, about like three or four minutes long, about how he had always been proud of me and he knew I could do it, and and they all just had such a unique perspective. Dad's one was about how this does he's not gonna be any prouder of me after this because he was already so proud of me. Um, and then my granny, my beautiful 80 how old is she? Uh probably 87-year-old granny, um talking about um she has she has a beautiful Australian accent and she was going, I'm imagining you running through the beautiful streets of Sydney and you're you're doing me proud. And I was just it was incredible to hear. And also my mum, who has the words for anything, she's so articulate and so deep and intelligent and incredible, and she just talked absolutely amazing words for probably 10 minutes in my ear, and that fully got me through. I think I think I was listening to those for most of 30 to the end, and it just with tears pouring down my face. And I was talking about it with my coach afterwards, and he was like, Because once you start crying, your heart rate goes all out of whack. It's not very good performance. You weren't locked in, Mads.

Joshie 52:44

It's so hard to hold it together though, like when you see the finish line and when you start to think, I don't know, if you if you dig deep, um, I'm I'm a reflector, and I um during the marathons I've run will always get to a moment where I start to reflect on the journey to get there, and that's so dangerous because it's so hard to hold it together.

Mads 53:02

Yeah. Oh, I did not. I think if anyone saw me coming down that last straight, I was probably like full-on ugly crying and also looking like I hated it because maybe I did hate it for like the last kilometer or so. But and then after I went through the finish line, I was A, feeling very silly for filming myself, but I'm so glad I have that footage because it's so cool with the opera house and the finish line, and I'm just bawling my eyes out as I get my medal. It's such a crazy thing that I don't think you could ever know unless you did a marathon just to have the emotions and the shared vibe because everyone's thinking it. It's so cool.

Joshie 53:42

And so are you hooked now? Like a lot of people there's probably two groups of people those who get to the end of their first marathon and throw their shoes in the nearest body of water and go, I'm not doing that again. And then there's those that sign up for the next one before the uh that they've come down from the high. Yeah, I'm I'm so hooked. Um So what's next then? What's so I guess on the horizon for you?

Mads 54:02

Um I I always need to have something in. Um, so I had I did, pardon me, um, the Auckland half marathon, which was so cool to go back. So that was a year after I did the 11km. I came back last November and did the half marathon. And from such a different perspective from having just done a full and it was no big deal. I didn't ha feel like it was a whole thing. It just would have blown my mind to tell me that a year earlier. Um, and my friend who I've met through running, one of so many people in my community that I've met through running, paced me, which was so cool, and I got a time that I don't know if I'll ever do again. Um uh so yeah, I just always want to have something in the diary. For example, at the moment I have Gold Coast full and then Sydney full. So this is gonna be a big year, but I'm pretty excited.

Joshie 54:59

We'll have to have a bit of like a Run Believable party. This if quite a few friends are unbelievable, they're gonna be at the Gold Coast. So we'll have to find a way to seek up while we're gonna be.

Mads 55:07

Everyone's going to be in the Gold Coast that runs.

Joshie 55:10

Oh, it's a beautiful event, it really is. Um and look, Mads, um, before we finish up, thinking back to seven-year-old Mads that was there being kicked off the social netball team. If you had an opportunity to go back and talk to her, what would you say?

Mads 55:25

Oh, such a good question. I would say you are capable of more than you could ever imagine, and you have such a pure spirit, and you have so much potential, and you don't even know the brilliant things that you can achieve. And I still I'm the ripe old age of 33, and I still just have so much trust in the cool things that are to come that we don't even know. I'm so excited for you, and I'm so proud of you, and you're actually so much sportier than you give yourself credit for. And you do that, Twilight Netball, and don't let anyone bring you down.

Joshie 56:07

Oh Matt, that's that's beautiful. Um look, if there's a way that we can catch your infection smile, can you please attend it out or hate it? Um dearly, best of luck working through the next stages in your life, and thanks so much for sharing your journey with us today. We've had an absolute all thank you so much.

Mads 56:25

I loved it. Yeah, the the community part is so big. Um, which I didn't really touch on. Like, I go to an amazing run club, and I and I used to feel like we lived in our house as isolated members of a city, of a big city, and now it's crazy. This morning I was out for a run with Jared, and we saw four people we knew just on our morning run, and that's almost every time. I'm so connected to wonderful people in our community, and that's probably like the thing I love the most out of anything.