Ep 35: She Walks During Marathons… And Doesn't Care What You Think | Belle Ferguson

Belle Ferguson never really thought about running.

In fact, she started running for a surprisingly practical reason... walking took too long.

What began as a time-saving measure soon turned into something much bigger.

Today, Belle is a marathoner, Trek2Health trek leader, and passionate advocate for runners of all abilities. She's also challenging one of running's biggest misconceptions... that taking walk breaks somehow makes you less of a runner.

In this episode:

•  Starting running purely to save time
•  How Trek to Health changed her life
•  The run-walk (Jeffing) method explained
•  Why back-of-the-pack runners deserve more respect
•  Running marathons without chasing elite times
•  Finding confidence, community, and belonging through running

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About Runbelievable

Runbelievable is the podcast for every runner. From your first parkrun to your 100th marathon, from walk-run intervals to dabbling in trail running, every runner has a story worth telling. Through honest conversations with runners from all walks of life, Runbelievable explores the challenges, achievements, setbacks, and experiences that connect us through running and shape who we become.

Transcript

Intro

Belle 0:00

So I started unwalking. Yeah, that kind it kinda kicked off from there.

Joshie 0:05

So you started running purely as a time-saving measure.

Belle 0:09

Look how much time I spent.

Joshie 0:17

Hello everybody and welcome to Unbelievable, the podcast that celebrates while we run. And I need to bring you stories about what's got people running. Coming up in this episode, you'll make a runner who's challenging the runner's narrative. If you don't still like his judgment of being a back-attack runner or a stop start runner, then this one is for you. Natty, welcome back to Run Believable.

Natty 0:55

Hey Josh, good to be back.

Joshie 0:57

Awesome to have you here. Now look at the intro, I certainly mentioned wanting to pull the pin on marathon number five. Now, I'm actually quite glad that you're in the co-host state today. This whole marathon thing is your fault to be within.

Natty 1:11

You chose to swap with me because I'm re-injured.

Joshie 1:15

Well, if you hadn't injured your foot, then I wouldn't have felt compelled to swap tickets with you. Are you victim blaming? I think I'm the victim at the moment. I really call the people this anyway. Now, last week's episode really seemed to strike a chord with listeners. As you know, uh Naddie Libby spoke with such candor about imposter syndrome. So I actually did a quick poll and it turns out that around 80% of our listeners, or at least people who voted, can relate to those feelings of imposter syndrome. Um Naddie, what about yourself? Which camp do you fall into?

Natty 1:51

Oh, absolutely. I I would have selected been 80%. Um I think most people tend to feel like that at some stage or other. Um, especially something like a running event. Yeah. 100%.

Joshie 2:05

I'm super curious as to why. I mean, is there just this pressure on social media to try and always get one up on someone else and just not feeling good enough? I'm really not sure.

Natty 2:18

Um definitely the introduction of social media um and outlets like that would definitely make it worse. But um I probably always felt like that growing up.

Joshie 2:29

Okay.

Natty 2:30

Without it. Without it. Before it, yeah. But I think it's definitely worse with social media.

Joshie 2:39

Yeah, yeah, I tend to agree. And look, if there's any psychologists out there, please do get in touch. Um I am really exactly right. Um I'm super curious about what belies this phenomenon. Now,

Guess the Mileage: FINAL (Week 3) Reveal

Joshie 2:51

uh for those of you who are following along on Instagram, we've had an absolutely brilliant response to our very first community competition, guest the shoe mileage. Now, after two weeks, the leaderboard is quite narrow. Now, Naddy, I think we've got about 150 kilometres that's separating the top five. So really, I think anyone can win it still. Still dirty. I wasn't allowed to enter that.

Natty 3:17

Well I wouldn't have peeked at your shoes or your Strava, I swear.

Joshie 3:25

We'll let the listeners decide on that. Um, uh just a reminder that there's two prizes on offer, a free either 5 or 10k entry thanks to the folks at Bridge to Brisbane and a limited edition Run Believable singlet top. Now, folks, get ready. The third and final week's shoe reveal is here. Oh no, there it is. We can do this. Uh so the third shoe, Josh's Hoker speed go five. Have done. 17 and a half kilometers.

Natty 4:14

Uh I would have guessed something close to that because you've done one trail running.

Joshie 4:19

Two. So that's right, folks. I caught the trail bug for approximately two days back in 2024. So those of you who know my running habits, you've got an unfair advantage. Uh those of you who don't know my running habits, you certainly do now. And I can't see that changing ever. Now, depending on when you're listening to this episode, the results may have been published already. If you're a day one listener, then you might be frantically trying to calculate whether or not you've won. So good luck with that. Uh and uh sincerely, though, if you've been playing along, I really want to thank you so much for your contribution. Launching the very first Run Believable competition has been a massive step outside my comfort zone, and I've really felt the love. Okay. Naddie, it's quiz time.

Natty 5:11

Yes, I'm here to set the record straight after you.

Joshie 5:16

But not my own. I gave you an on-air apology. Won't it throw me under the bus? Uh uh anyway, today's

Quiz Time: 5000 metres isn't 5k

Joshie 5:28

uh quiz, Natty, is a true or false, so pretty easy. 50-50 chance. I'm not good with those. Well you know that. Uh and it's all about the five thousand meters track. So not the 5k. You and I have had this argument and a conversation before. Yes, they are different.

Natty 5:49

It's the same thing.

Joshie 5:50

It's not one's uh one's road um uh measurement and the other's track. So five thousand meters refers to track.

Natty 5:56

Is it the same distance?

Joshie 5:59

Question number one. The women's five thousand meter world record is sub-14 minutes. True or false?

Natty 6:11

True.

Joshie 6:13

Is indeed just last year Beatrice Shabet ran the very first sub-14 minute 5,000 meter for women at a time of 13 minutes and 58 seconds. Gosh, that's quick. Wow. Question number two. The last time a non-A-African held the men's world record. Yeah, this is serious stuff. Yeah. Was in 1983. True or false.

Natty 6:45

We're gonna ponder that for a minute. True.

Joshie 6:52

Ah, damn it. It was actually 1982. That's now dumb.

Natty 7:01

One yeah.

Joshie 7:02

Well, you're either right or you're not. So 1982, David Moorcroft, I think he was British, he was the last non-African to hold the men's 5,000 meter world record in a time of uh 13 minutes, 0.41. Gosh, wouldn't you be dirty to have just missed out on a sub-13 back then?

Natty 7:21

Yes.

Joshie 7:22

Almost as dirty as you are for missing it. Question number three. Across both men and women, the 5,000 metre world record has been broken at an Olympic Games only once. True or false?

Natty 7:42

True.

Joshie 7:47

Believe it or not, it was all the way back in 1912.

Natty 7:52

So say 1982.

Joshie 7:54

Not quite. No, that's uh a Finnish Finnish gentleman by the name of Hans Kolemeinen. And Hans, if you're listening, um I do apologise if I've got the pronunciation incorrect.

Natty 8:04

I don't think he would be.

Joshie 8:05

Well 1912, but might be might be listening from beyond the grave. Um but he was yeah, he was uh from Finland and he uh set that world record in Stockholm. The only one to ever do so at an Olympic Games for either men or women. Do you want to have a guess at what his time was back then? 1912?

Natty 8:25

1912, I'm sorry, this was the five thousand metres.

Joshie 8:29

Yes. Yeah.

Natty 8:31

Um was it 1512?

Joshie 8:35

It was 1436, can you believe? Isn't that incredible? 100 and where are we now? 114 years ago. Setting time. Anyway, uh if you've been playing along at home, please let us know how you went. Yeah.

Guest Spotlight: Belle Ferguson

Joshie 8:56

Today's guest is living proof that you don't need to run fast nor non-stop to call yourself a runner. What started with hiking through the Trek to Health program in 2024 has slowly turned into a journey about letting go of shame, embracing Jeffing, and showing that the benefits of running aren't reserved for those at the front of the pack. Can we please welcome Belle Ferguson? Welcome, Belle.

Belle 9:22

Hi, Josh, thanks for having me. Hi Nat. Hi Nat. Hi, hi Belle.

Joshie 9:26

Now, you're less than three years into your journey. I think this is your third year of running. Yeah. Can you remember the moment when you suddenly stopped and called yourself a runner?

Belle 9:37

Uh, any day now. No. No, I think running my first marathon, uh, that was the big thing for me. Because after that, when I still would kind of go to correct people, like, oh, I don't really run, like I run walking the um, they're like, you've run a marathon. I'm like, oh yeah, okay, fair point. So I kind of embraced it after that.

Joshie 10:02

Uh that's really cool. Um now look, before running entered your life, I think you described yourself as just feeling a bit unfit. Um what can you tell me about what life looked like for you before you started running?

Belle 10:17

So I I started park run maybe about 10 years before I started running this time. And I would do the occasional park run. I've always wanted to be able to run better, but always found it so hard. And I guess never knew how to push myself to break through those, I guess, barriers when you first start out, how challenging it is. And you know, 5Ks is um just feels so long and so hard that it's hard to fathom that you would do that regularly for fun and uh and to push further distances than that. Um and so and I always tried to keep just at a level of fitness, but I've never really found a real passion for a sport or an activity. So I'd I got into yoga for a while, I was doing that, and then I'd go into Pilates and then back just to walking or I I would cycle through different hobbies. This is the first time I've actually done anything for longer than a year. So to be in my third year for me, that's quite impressive because uh yeah, normally a bit shorter than that.

Joshie 11:28

What was it that changed then? Um two years ago or two and a half years ago?

Belle 11:34

So I think what changed for me uh this time was finding so running community. Uh it's only actually been this year that I am regularly running with people and enjoying that. I still very much kept to just going solo. I found I would get too much anxiety over worrying about other people, um, being too slow for other people when we're running together, which I know now that people if you let them know your pace, it's up to them to decide if they want to run with you or not, and it's fine. But back when I first started, it would just I just wouldn't enjoy the run. I would just be anxious the whole time. And um, that's not why it's not I don't like running if I'm um anxious as well. But anyway, so sorry, the point the point of that was although I was running solo training for my first marathon, I would do my long run on the Sunday morning along the Brisbane River, and I just felt you could see everyone that was training for on their long run. In my head, they're all trading for the Gold Coast Marathon because that's what I was doing. And everyone's got their gel and their vest and their water and uh every you all these people are on their long run. And then when I went to the um uh what's it called, the marathon expo, when you pick up your bib and do all of that, and all of a sudden everyone's all in the same room and there's this buzz and excitement, and we'd all been training so long for this uh event. Um, and I got really swept up in that and um I thought that was super exciting. Um and to feel like I was a part of this team, and then you know, it's it's the race day and race day morning and yeah, we're all running together and in this big event, and so I really felt the community there um alongside other things of say Park Run and starting to meet other runners and uh but yeah, it was all just starting to build and I was falling in love with with it and yeah. Uh now my third year and still here and hopefully I'll continue doing it for long term.

Natty 13:46

Belle, do you feel like running with the community, did that does that help build your confidence as well?

Belle 13:51

Yeah, it does. Um again, I think once I realize once I found other people similar to my pace or slightly slower, and I could run with them and I could see, I guess I you he just hear people dealing with we all we're all going through the the same thing, I guess, when you're training for these events with other runners. It's been great.

Joshie 14:14

Now, Bill, we're gonna spend a bit of time talking about Trek to Health because I know that that program has been hugely instrumental in your life. Um firstly, can you explain to us what Trek to Health is and how you first came to be involved with the program?

Belle 14:32

Yeah, sure. So Trek to Health is a non-for-profit organization uh where its focus is on uh taking frontline workers, veterans, um, out into green space, into nature to hike, um, to um help with their mental health, but in a stigma-free way, uh is what is what they try to do. So um not everybody there that participates um is certainly in any type of crisis or um may not even have mental health issues, but it's there in this, again, supportive environment and just getting out into green space and looking after, I guess, their mental health.

Joshie 15:16

So, Bill, how did you first come to be involved with the program?

Belle 15:21

Uh so I came to be involved with the program uh by I joined a they have a four-hour program and the team that I was working with um are invited along. So in that four hours, they have one of the um speakers, Helena, who she is um uh dietitian, I think is her background, but she does a weekly talk with the participants uh in regards to nutrition, uh resilience. Um there's a number of different um topics that each week that they'll have a chat about before you embark on your training hike. Uh so that's and again with this four-hour experience, it was the her talk. She gave a kind of, I guess, overview of the program, and then we set out for a hike together. Uh, and Bruce Barker is the CEO of Trek to Health, and he was the um trek leader who took us out on the hike. And um I hadn't been doing much exercise leading up um to this point. Uh, it was just post-COVID as things are starting to, I guess, open back up again. And uh I had lost a lot of fitness. I had a two-year-old daughter at that point in time too. So there'd been a couple of years where I hadn't been very um, hadn't been moving very much at all, to be honest. And I found just hiking up um the hills around Inogra Reservoir where the hikes are, uh, it was just extremely, extremely challenging. And uh I hadn't realized how uh how much fitness I'd actually lost and how I didn't expect to find it that challenging. And I was speaking to Bruce on this hike, and he started talking about I guess the benefits of the program and um how wonderful it would be if in um so this was in a in the September, uh, and he's like, well, in September next year, if you do this program, it'll be a year worth of hiking, and we'll be able to go together to Fraser and um hike Ghari together. And that that's their final challenge is uh um a four-day hike through the Great Walk in Ghari. And uh I guess I planted a a seed and at that point in time I thought, oh, there's no way I could I can barely get through an hour of this hike, let alone um a four-day hike. And um, but yeah, it did plant that seed, and um from there I decided that I would um join up and join the program.

Joshie 18:03

Was there any part of you that thrived on the challenge or was it about survival back then?

Belle 18:12

Um I was worried about the so the first challenge is a 25 kilometer hike, which um did seem very, very daunting to me at the time. Uh and so I started there was a period of time between when I signed up to when the program started, and I just started walking every day just around the local neighborhood, just trying to get enough fitness so I could complete these hikes and try not to be a liability to uh the people that are gonna be there.

Joshie 18:46

So at what point did you decide to start running or incorporating running into your hikes and walking?

Belle 18:53

Yeah, sure. So um leading up to again track tractor health. So I was walking, I was trying to do do a five kilometer walk every day uh and one ten kilometer walk um a week. And and when I say I wasn't doing it every day, I was trying to get it done every day. And it is it again, I had a two-year-old and it was just hard with time it with timings. But I was getting up at say four in the morning and trying to get these walks in before I started work. And I found I could I was okay with managing the five kilometre walk, but the time management to try and get a 10k walk in was really hard. So that's what I thought, oh if I run a little bit of this, I'll be able to get back a bit quicker and get it done sooner. So I started um run walking and yeah, that kind it kind of kicked off from there.

Joshie 19:49

So you started running purely as a time-saving measure.

Belle 19:52

Yeah, no. Look how much time I spent doing it now.

Joshie 19:58

Oh the irony.

Belle 19:59

Yeah, right. But yeah, it was purely time-saving. I'm like, I just need to get this 10K in the bank quicker.

Joshie 20:08

So did it surprise you how quickly things evolved from there? I mean, did a running bike hit you that quickly?

Belle 20:17

Well, uh that kind of kicked off. So again, I was I was run-walking that 10k part, and already I could tell my fitness level was increasing. And I was I liked seeing on Strava like my um the weekly chart where it shows that you it slowly climbs and incline on that. And so that I do like a chart and I do like to um see those those start. So I was getting more and more into that, and it was around that time that my husband signed up for his um first marathon. Um he signed up for the Sydney marathon, him and his mate. Um but he he did I'm gonna say no training. I think he did one 16 kilometer run leading up to the Sydney Marathon. Um and it was that marathon in I believe 2023. Getting I might get the years mixed up here, it might be 24. But when it was that really hot day um and uh where people were dropping off with it with heat exhaustion and things along those lines. But him and uh him and his mate went and did it yeah, again, and his mate didn't train much either and finished it. And I thought, if these if these guys can do this, if my husband can do this marathon without training, when I'm working so hard, like perhaps like is it crazy that I think that it is achievable for me? Uh so I found on Facebook there's a group called Women Who Jeff, uh, and there was lots of women on there. Who had completed the marathon. And around the same time, I noticed another, I listened to a podcast, sorry, with of this woman called Kathy Wallace, I believe her name is. And she um she's this insane ultra marathoner that right at the back of the pack uh runs and walks, and she does these insane marathons all over the world. Um, and she just made it seem uh really exciting, but too achievable. She was talking about finding the right race for you, finding ones that embraced back of the pack runners, uh ones with large cutoff times. And I found Run Queensland and I was looking at their events and they have um really great cutoff times um for um for almost all of their events, I think. Uh and I found um Bewar at Daybreak was the first event that I signed up for. Uh signed up for their half marathon.

Joshie 23:09

Bill, you mentioned something before called Jeffing. What is that?

Belle 23:13

Uh yes. So Jeffing is uh a style of of running, I guess. It's it's a run-walk program where you from the beginning of your run, uh you have planned walk intervals throughout your run. Uh typically Jeffing is very short intervals. So when I first started, I was doing um a 15-second run uh to a 15-second walk interval. And I was doing that on repeat uh for however however long I was running for. Eventually I found the 60 second uh sorry, 60 seconds of running and 30 seconds of walking uh worked really well for me. And I still like to do that interval when I'm um Jeffing now.

Joshie 24:04

You know, when you and I first connected via Instagram uh close to six months ago now, you talked about this run walk method, which I think you've used for all is it three of your marathons now?

Belle 24:17

Yes.

Joshie 24:18

Yeah. Um And you kind of suggested, without explicitly saying it, that you feel as though it was a factor in missing out and running a sub-five hour marathon. Um do you sometimes fall into the trap of continually setting the bar higher and higher?

Belle 24:38

So I definitely yes, I I have put too much pressure on myself. But I guess where this has all come from, and that that is still my goal. So my goal is to so I'm training for the Gold Coast marathon, and I would really like to break the five-hour uh mark. Uh so my first marathon, I had no time goal at all, and I really recommend that for anybody doing their first marathon. You are guaranteed a PB, it's your first marathon, go out there and if you want to finish strong, you want to finish going, I didn't hate that, maybe I could do that again. And that's what I did. I I remember uh not long after I passed the finish line and you come out through um, I guess all the athletes out into the little village thing that they have set up there. And my husband was there, he's like, Oh, are you one and done? You'll never like will you ever do that again? And I remember I said to him, like, well, the fact that um I that's not a hard no right now, and I'm in all this pain means um perhaps I will sign up for another one. Uh, and which I did. So I then s signed up for um the Gold Coast again the following year. And I didn't have a tight time goal and I didn't have the sub five at that point in time, but I would I wanted to PB it. I wanted to do I'd trained for another year from my first marathon. And so I I guess I wanted to see a year's worth of improvement, right? And uh I did I did get a PB. Uh it wasn't significant, it was a few minutes, which some might argue that whether it's significant or not, I didn't feel it was significant, but I was happy that I got a PB. I don't think you can ever be um too upset when you've done the your personal best in a in a certain distance. Um but then I had or already signed up for the I got tickets for Sydney Marathon, which was eight weeks after my second marathon. So then that was the first time I I guess put a bit of pressure with my time and I went, no, I really want to um work really hard on my training and try and train pop properly for a time goal. And um I was hoping again for some five hours at Sydney and I c I came relatively close. So I got 5.04 something was my official time. Um my Strava time, which I know doesn't count, but it shows it was eight seconds off it. And I think when you Yeah, and when you Jeff in a in a busy marathon like Sydney where there's 50,000 people, I know that there's satellite drift. I know there's I'm of course I'll only go off my official time, but you do weave in and out of people a lot. And so it can um it can run a bit further too. But anyway, I have that constant reminder whenever I looked at my phone with my PB time being five hours and eight seconds on my stuff for quite some time. I'm like, no, I'm gonna beat this. Uh and anyway, and so yes, no, so now I'm training for my fourth marathon. And I've decided and I reserve the right to change my opinion at any point in time, but I've decided not to jeff this one. I'm going to run continuously. Well, without sorry, when I say run continuously, I'm not going to have the strategic walk breaks that um I have for my other ones, uh, where because when you Jeff it from 60 seconds into the marathon, you're walking.

Joshie 28:28

There's a like it's a really uh prescribed is it? So you're a very hard hard kind of rule that you have to follow.

Belle 28:34

Yeah. And that's to conserve energy for later. And it's also I guess to help you help with your pacing, you're not going out as hot that you can um you're slowing yourself down from the beginning with those walk breaks. Um but yeah, this time I'm going to try because I do have a time goal. Um, I'm going to try and not have those strategic walk breaks, particularly at the beginning. Um, and I've been practicing in my training, running continuously now. Uh and I just ran this morning um 21Ks continuously, which is uh pretty big for me, other than swimming through some puddles. We've had a lot of years today. Yes.

Natty 29:19

That's unreal.

Belle 29:20

Yeah.

Joshie 29:22

Now, Bill, run walking isn't um isn't a failure at all. In fact, from what you and I discussed a few weeks ago, um, you took a moment during one of your marathons. I think it was the Sydney marathon when you said it was really hot. And you noticed all these people that were scattered, like collapsing towards a finish line, and you're there sort of powering on and smiling um at the back end. You found a lot of strength that other people um didn't. Um what can you tell me about what it's like um finding a method that works for you that other people have been quite critical of?

Belle 30:02

I will sing the praises of um the Jeffing method. Uh it's it wasn't just Sydney Marathon where I saw people dropping off in those last 10 cases, it's each marathon that I've done uh on the three marathons I've done now.

Natty 30:15

Would you say that um it helps with injury prevention and management as well, Belle?

Belle 30:21

Now, when I'm running, as I said, running continuously, I do I feel fresher if I'm doing the run walk um interval. Uh I think it having that um change in your cadence and your pace regularly throughout your run really helps um on having that toll of the body that that constant um pounding on the pavement takes when you're continuously running. Uh particular if if it's I really recommend it, particularly for people who um are coming back from injury, uh, who are beginner runners, um, older runners, um, or just anyone that really wants to get into this really cool sport um and wants a different way to do it. I I think it's such a great way.

Joshie 31:13

You know, Bill, there's seems to be so much uh judgment, and I won't go into too much detail, but even from some very big brands um recently about the run walk method. Um and I've personally found it very difficult to see those perceptions being further promulgated across the internet. Um how hard have you found it to push back against some of those unhealthy perspectives?

Belle 31:43

Yeah, it is really disappointing when big brands come out um and are a bit negative toward uh people that walk during their runs because so many people do it for so many different reasons. Uh and yeah, there are yeah, there are people, um not just brands that are negative toward towards it and don't consider people that do it as real runners. But I think it's more a reflection on the them than yourself. 42 kilometers is 42 kilometers, whether you're doing it sub two like Saway, or if you're out there for seven plus hours. Like we stayed back last um Gold Coast Marathon. And if anyone is listening to this and is going down to the Gold Coast Marathon, I really recommend staying in and cheering in the final runners. The people that come in over seven hours are just incredible. Um the party bus. It is the party bus. It is the party bus. And those people have worked so hard to be out there and and to even things like nutrition when you're out there for seven hours compared to the faster runners. It's it's these people work so hard, and it is it's disappointing when people are negative to towards people that um, you know, maybe these people that are out there aren't doing so much Jeffing, but I think it it's all kind of put into the same category as the slower runners, the Jeffers, and yeah.

Joshie 33:14

The other thing that I think a lot of people overlook, and I think we've mentioned this on previous episodes, is uh you don't know what people's journeys are, um, what their motivations are for getting to the start line and what they're working through. And so whatever method works for them, so the hell what who are we to judge? And when you're a slower runner, the reality is um it's more time on your feet. It's much harder to get through that journey as well. And I really think we should take the time to acknowledge just how hard these people work, if not harder, than those that are at the front of the pack. Uh the other thing, Bill, that you and I spoke about, um, you've described running as being life-changing for you. Now you're not out there chasing elite times. Um, well, what is it that you can tell me about some of the benefits that you've experienced um and taken away from running, uh, even with not being a fast um runner yourself?

Belle 34:11

Uh I've had so many benefits from running. Uh I find uh it really helps with just unwinding at the end of the day in a healthy way, rather than uh ways such as reaching for a glass of wine, which I may have done um frequently in the past. Um I find uh it really helps to organize your thoughts, to process um what's happened throughout the day, to plan for the day ahead, uh through and then going on to meeting other people in this space as well. I've made some really great friends through running um from all different walks of life, people that you wouldn't normally meet. Um and yeah, I've had I've had so many benefits from it. Um obviously um, you know, being uh fitter, healthier, I mean, that's that's great as well. But there's certainly a lot more um to it than just that.

Joshie 35:11

Now you're a rare breed of someone who seems to enjoy both road and trail running. Um and you're still you're still heavily involved. Actually, I will ask you, what do you have a preference for road or trail?

Belle 35:24

Logistically, I like uh I think pros and cons for both. I like the logistically road is easier. I can step out my front door and if to fit in my life with between childcare and work and all of that, I can have 30 minutes from the moment I open the door to when I get back and I've done my workout for the day. I don't have to drive anywhere, do anything, it just happens. Um I also like when when I'm watching my pace and things along those lines, it's it's a lot more rigid on the on the road. You can kind of work out where you're at and see improvements or um things along those lines. Whereas on the trails, um it's you don't get to, I mean, the harder to get to, they um your pace means nothing on there. But I also kind of love that your pace doesn't mean anything on there.

Joshie 36:15

And but it takes a bit of pressure off, doesn't it?

Belle 36:18

It takes so much pressure off, and you just get out of your head and I don't know. I tend to um go into a bit more of a zone and at times I like I'm I don't set any and I never have when I've been doing the trail runs. I don't jeft them as in I don't do designated um intervals, but I run more to feel, and I really like that that you are just running to to feel like the old school way rather than watching your watch and doing what your watch tells you that you kind of zone out to it and enjoy the experience.

Joshie 36:52

And you're quite heavily involved in the trail community. I know it's how you got your start in your running journey. Um, and if memory serves correctly, you're now a Trek to Health Trek Leader. Is that correct?

Belle 37:04

Yeah, so I ended up doing the 12 months, signing up six weeks at a time uh and completing their challenges. So the following September I was on Fraser. I did with Bruce and three other amazing women and another trek leader. We did Fraser together, which was such a wonderful uh experience. And then uh after um that finished, then yeah, I was asked to stay on as a trek leader. So I'm now on my second year of track leading.

Joshie 37:38

Congratulations, that's so cool.

Belle 37:40

Yeah, thank you. No, I really enjoy it and I really like watching. We've got a group that are about to um go off and do Gari Fraser um in the next week or so and to see where you know they've come from. Twelve months ago, everyone's a bit nervous and a bit worried to to watch them to uh to go through the whole process um to to make the for strong friendships that they do and to be embarking on this journey and um see how excited they are. Uh yeah, it's really great.

Joshie 38:14

So it's almost like you're you're reliving your own experience from a couple of years ago. That's awesome. Um now if there's anyone listening who has a sense of shame or embarrassment about you know being a back-of-the-pack runner, um, even taking walk breaks when running, um, or having to live with this perception of not looking like a runner, um, what would you want them to hear?

Belle 38:44

I d well, I don't think that there's there should be any shame in it. I think it takes a lot of courage for 60 seconds into a marathon to be walking if you're a Jeffer. Uh and I think the party is up at the back. Um it's such a there's people talking um to each other, helping each other get through it. I really think uh is such a great experience. And there's yeah, there's nothing to be ashamed of. And I do, if anyone is considering the marathon distance, and maybe they haven't tried Jeffing before, but and just maybe they're already a consistent runner and can do it consistently, but to just find that marathon distance um, I guess a little confronting as people do. I I urge people to consider trying Jeffing, see how that feels in their body, and maybe if the if your goal is to complete a marathon and finish strongly and enjoy it, it's such a great way to do it.

Joshie 39:44

Bill, thanks so much for chatting with us today. Um, what you're doing is really strong.