EP 46 | Could the Secret to Running at 80 Be Training Less?

What if your biggest running goal was still decades away? 

For Nick Dunn, a horrific football injury 25 years ago left him with a broken leg, dislocated ankle and lasting limitations that he still manages today. Years later, after his health and fitness had fallen away, a friend's relentless persistence led him to his first triathlon... and two goals that would change the direction of his life.

More than 100 triathlons later, Nick has represented Australia and achieved the first of those goals. The only one remaining? To still be racing when he's 80s.

In this conversation, Nick shares how triathlon helped transform his life, why he's deliberately training less as he gets older, and how checking in with his 80-year-old self is changing the decisions he makes today.

If you've ever wondered whether becoming a better runner sometimes means doing less, this episode might change the way you think about training for the long haul. 

In this episode:

• The horrific football injury Nick is still dealing with 25 years later. 
• How struggling to keep up with his daughters became a catalyst for change. 
• The friend who finally convinced him to give triathlon a go. 
• The two goals Nick set after completing his very first event. 
• Why training less could be the key to racing for decades to come. 
• What Nick's 80-year-old self is teaching him about the choices he makes today. 
• The six-minute story that completely changed how he sees his life.

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About Runbelievable

Runbelievable is the podcast for every runner. From your first parkrun to your 100th marathon, from walk-run intervals to dabbling in trail running, every runner has a story worth telling. Through honest conversations with runners from all walks of life, Runbelievable explores the challenges, achievements, setbacks, and experiences that connect us through running and shape who we become.

Transcript

Checking In With His 80-Year-Old Self

Nick 0:00

I constantly check in with my 30-year-old stuff to go what what am I doing today to my school? I'm going to be fine and fresh on that.

Joshie 0:13

Hello everybody and welcome back to Run Blood. Today it's completed in more than 100 craft ones for data Australia and done it all on an angle that was fourly disproved 25 years ago. Rather, how it can still be racing when you are out. I'm Dr. Christian, and to help you understand what it takes to ready your body for oxygenarian competition, I'm joined by Nick Dunn. Nick, welcome to Run Believable. Thanks for having me. Now before we dive into your story, this week's Run Believable moment comes from previous guest Carly Barkle. As many listeners would know, after six bouts of bowel surgery, Carly somehow managed to run a marathon PB at Brisbane earlier this year. And apparently that wasn't enough. Greedy. Just four weeks later, she took another minute off her PB, running three hours and thirteen at the Sunshine Coast Marathon. Remarkable stuff. Now, Nick, like Carly, you're no stranger to overcoming serious adversity. I'll be honest, I was about to kick things off with your um injury 25 years ago or thereabouts, but I might actually just start with how you're going at the moment because you've actually been meeting with a surgeon quite recently. Um sounds as though your ankles had a bit of a nasty flare-up. What can you tell me about that?

The Injury That Changed Everything

Nick 1:38

Yeah, well let's let's talk about the injury first. So um a football injury 25 years ago, so it was uh my last game of football ever, thankfully. And uh it was just just running a ball up as a a very um very large prop forward and went into a three-man tackle, two up high, one down low. And we all went to the ground. And the guy down low landed on my leg, twisted it around, and when I looked down, there was a bit of pain, and I my foot had disappeared. And when I investigated a bit more, my foot was actually facing the opposite direction. And I thought, well, that's that's that's not good. So off the field I went, ambulance and off to hospital. So that's that's the injury itself. We can talk a bit more about that later. But it was a broken leg, dislocated ankle, um, three surgeries over the course of four days to have the plate put in there and a stabilizing pin. And then uh after recovery from that of you know 12 weeks or so implasted. But after recovery of that, it was off to the physio and then trying to do all the things to get the um get the ankle at least to a point where I could walk on it and use it as uh as a regular person. Um over the years it's uh it's come and gone, it's been debilitating, it's been at a point where I couldn't walk, uh, I struggled with stairs, things like that. Um but moving all the way forward to most recently was training for the uh T-100 on the Gold Coast and and ran uh did a lot of running um in November through to March of this year. And I I think every every second week I was probably running a half marathon distance on a Sunday morning with the local Najee runners. And so I did about six or seven half marathons in that period, and the ankle just wore down and got worse and worse and worse and worse. So I finally did the T100 um and decided after that and said to my wife Selena, my beautiful wife Selena, uh, and I just said I I think it's time, it's time to go and get something done. So we went off to the doctor, did some x-rays, and the doctor first said that it's pretty arthritic. Uh but today was the day to go see the specialist. So we went to the specialist and he said, Look, it's uh got onset arthritis, but that's not to worry about. He said there's some bone spurs that have developed in there and we could probably do some surgery and clean those up. He said the main one, the main problem he thinks is something that we're gonna deal with is a large buildup of scar tissue, which the more I run, uh the longer I run, the more inflamed it gets, uh, which is where that debilitating pain comes in. And then it takes days for that scar tissue to settle down again. So we're off for an MRI, which I'll I'll book in soon, back to the specialist and then work out uh if we're gonna do surgery, work out where in my brace schedule we're gonna fit uh surgery and six or eight weeks of recovery.

Joshie 4:15

So the challenges that you're experiencing now in terms of your ankle and the scar tissue and the spurs that you just mentioned, um, and indeed arthritis, is that something that the surgeon foreshadowed when you did the injury uh uh originally?

Nick 4:33

Well, originally I was told immediately that when I get older there'll there'll be arthritis, and I just accepted. I I had no dramas with that whatsoever. Um and uh arthritis is very common with you know young and older people, and we it gets dealt with in different ways. So I was expecting that for a long, long time, and um but to actually hear it recently to go you've you've got arthritis and you've your ankle now was kind of made me feel very old, funnily enough. Um but I was happy to hear it's it's not too you know from the the orthopedic surgeon, it's not anything I need to worry about at this age. But um it's it's it's certainly coming.

Joshie 5:12

So can you tell me when you did that injury uh when was that 25 years ago? Um what were you told in terms of limitations with um you know with movement? Because I know that you were told that if you ever got back to running that you'd be severely limited in what you could do. Um I mean, did you believe what the treatment team were telling you at the time, or was there a part of you that thought, well, there's actually I I want to write that chapter of my life?

Nick 5:41

When when you talk about treatment team 25 years ago, that was just uh a physio sitting at the hospital and then a physio sitting in their their office saying, Can you just do do these exercises on a regular basis? I don't even think resistance bands were a thing back then. It was just push your head push your ankle against the wall and hope for the best. And I I did as much as I thought I I could or should for a younger person, um, but it it it just never came good. So I've only got about 70% mobility in the ankle, and it's been that way pretty much from the the day it broke or when they reset it. Um so it's it's always been a problem, but the walking part and I I run my wife says I I I run very uh I I can't I can't even remember the the the word that she uses old, she can text it into you later. But she I just gotta run like this. And when I walk I kind of favour one side and things like that, so I because on my left is good and my right just is you know partly fused. So it it just makes it very awkward. But I think, well, you know what, if it's fused, it means then it's um it's not gonna get any worse. And I just think maybe it just feels like having a little carbon plate inside my leg or inside my foot that's just gonna propel me forward off my right foot. That's how I look at

When Health and Fitness Fell Away

Nick 6:59

it.

Joshie 6:59

That's that's the positives. You know, you're in good shape now, but for a number of years after you did that injury from what you told me, your exercise and health took a bit of a back seat. Um I think you said that you, you know, you threw yourself into work um, you know, potentially as a way of coping with something your life being taken away from you. Um is that how you saw that period of your life?

Nick 7:22

Yeah, it's it's quite funny. I I I did I went straight into work and I even when I was still in um with the the plaster cast on, I was down at work at 5am because I had nothing better to do. So I was I was at the office at 5am and and just starting to do work. And I when I had to go back for a another uh surgery um to readjust the the plate, I went to work that day, went up to the hospital, had the surgery, woke back up a couple of hours later, went straight back to the office again and kept working. And that kind of consumed my life, and then at at that stage I was still single, so that that led into working hard, okay, my legs are getting better, I'm a little bit more mobile, let's go out and have a drink with the the guys. We haven't been doing that for a while, and then that um that probably went on for a a number of years after that, and then uh of course no exercise because I I'd felt like I couldn't run or do anything. Um had alcohol and had uh had bad food, bad diet, and just eventually what turned into a bad lifestyle and things just kind of got out of hand. Well, I look at it now and things have got out of hand, but you just don't realise that at the time.

Joshie 8:29

When did you realise that things were out of hand? When did I?

Nick 8:33

When I probably when I couldn't chase my young daughters around the backyard for any more than thirty seconds. That's when certainly certainly weight-wise, I was up around the 130 kilo mark and I I thought, you know, you you think I'm I'm going okay, I'm fit, I'm alive, and I'm doing well. And uh I just I I just struggle for for breath and just struggle for any sort of fitness at the time and I'd for that's it for a half a minute to a minute running around the backyard but we me out.

Joshie 9:03

Wow. So how difficult was it to accept that new reality? I mean, if you were to wind the clock back a number of years before you had your injury, I mean, presumably you're in the shape of your life. Um I mean, was it a a difficult realization to come to I it I I knew I had to do something about it.

Nick 9:25

And everybody knows, and you'll know for sure, that somebody says, Oh, I I I wish I could lose some weight, and you tell them, this is how you this is what you do to lose weight, and they said, Oh, I can't do that, I'm not ready yet. I was at that stage as well. I wasn't ready to change. But then one morning I woke up and I said, uh enough's enough. I I've got to change. If I don't change, it's it's it's just gonna get worse and uh it's gonna be even even more unhealthy. So I just woke up one day and thought, I'm gonna change. And I I rang a friend of mine in in Sydney, his name's Sean. Sean's been on this journey with me for a long time. We've been friends for an awful long time. And he was in, he was coming to Brisbane and he sat me down, we had coffee, and I we started talking about the weight loss, and he'd been through that himself. Um, and he basically bought me coffee, took my hand, took me to the chemist, and bought me a bottle of chlorophyll, which is a digestive, it's a yucky green digestive. And he said, Have this every morning, eat a little bit better, this will help you start to lose weight. Once you start to lose weight, you'll get a cadence for doing that, and it'll become a bit of a habit. And that's exactly what happens. So he bought my first bottle of chlorophyll.

Joshie 10:32

Was it meant for human consumption?

Nick 10:36

On the bottle it says yes, but when you taste it, it is awful.

Joshie 10:40

Do they still sell it? Like uh kiddie's really okay. They do.

Nick 10:45

And it it is it is actually it's people talk about lemon water, just lemon and water, but yeah, the the chlorophyll is what what we call green goo. It it it is, it makes everything green. So um, but it it works as a digestive, it works really, really well. So if if if anyone wants to go give it a go, it tastes awful.

Discovering Triathlon

Joshie 11:03

Yeah, but it does work. So was it around that time um that because you had a friend of yours um, I think Dougal, who had spent a number of years trying to convince you to take up triathons. Um are you happy to talk to me about when you decided to finally take him up on that offer?

Nick 11:26

Dougal is one of the nicest people on the planet. And every person any person that's come across him will tell you exactly that. And um he's he's just a lovely guy. And he'll do anything for anyone. But we we were working at the company we were working for, he uh for for a couple of he knew that I'd been losing weight and he knew that I've been cycling to work. And so he knew that I was I was riding the bike. And he sort of had one year he said, I'll come and do the corporate triathlon. I said, What do you want me to do? He said, Ride bike. I said, Oh, I'm not interested in that. Uh so and then it's basically going to the goalpost and riding the bike for 10 kilometres. That's all he wanted me to do. So I said no. So the next year I said, he asked me again, I said no, no, I I I just don't want to. And then the next year he he said, Look, I'm only gonna ask you one last time. Come down and do just ride the bike for some just for some teams and help people make people happy. And I said, Dukes, if I'm gonna do it, I may as well just do the whole lot. And then I went to the pool and thought I'll give swimming a go. You know what? Couldn't swim a lap. It was awful. It was it was it was it was embarrassing. I'd have six year olds swimming past me. I still have six-year-olds swimming past me, but they're state athletes now. But so Dougled, so yeah, Dougall was responsible for getting me on to that first event. And he he coordinated the whole thing for corporate try for the company. We went down, we had a great time. There's about 30 of us or so that turned up, and I did it for the next three years. But it was after that first event I I finished, I hadn't even finished the run, and I I I was enjoying it so much, and I I knew as soon as I finished, I wanted to do another one. And on my way home from that, I I set myself two goals. I said I I I thought I really, really enjoy that. That's that's a good adventure to to get into. And I set two goals. And one was to do a hundred triathlons, and the other one was to do try uh keep doing triathlons until I was in my eighties. So at least I had a long-term goal, so I've still got a few decades to go. Um and that's that that's pretty much how it started. So it was Doogle pestering me that got me interested in triathlon, which in turn became a pivotal point in how my life changed and where I'm at today.

Joshie 13:41

Well, I think today you've exceeded the 100 triathlons. Congratulations. I think you're sitting at close to 110, aren't you now? Yeah, I think 110 is the next one. There we go. Um, so can I ask, um, just how punishing are those triathlons on your body, especially your ankle? I mean, what kind of shape are you after the after the events are finished?

Nick 14:05

Uh there it depends on the event, on the day, how the lead up is, what the training might have been, uh, how the body's feeling. It it's some days are punishing and and other days I can just walk away without any dramas. Um I did actually I'll just I just want to go back to Doug's one more because I know you and I spoke a few weeks ago and I I'd mentioned this. Um I'd I hadn't seen Doug's for a number of years and we ran into each other at Jetty to Jetty and I I I ran over to my wife and I said, That's that's Dougle. He's the guy who got me into triathlons. And she said to me, Does he know that? And I went, I don't think he does. And she said, But you better go tell him. So I ran back, gave him a big hug, told him thank you, and then told him why was he was the reason that I I'm where I'm at now. Oh, wow. And uh then I ran back to my wife and gave her a hug and said thank you.

Joshie 14:53

Oh, what

Realising He Could Represent Australia

Joshie 14:54

a beautiful story. You know, you're selling yourself a little bit short, I mean you're not just a triathlete, um, you hold your own in your age grade. You I think you've even represented Australia um in some competitions. Can you remember the moment that you realized, hey, I'm actually pretty good at this?

Nick 15:12

Uh yeah, when when Dave told me I was pretty good at it. Okay. I was just toddl toddling along and and doing my bit, and um there was a a race uh a couple of years ago on the Gold Coast and finished the race and um a a very, very good friend of mine who has been on my triathlon journey all the way along, um, Dave Tabernacle from uh Helix Triathlon Club. And um we were just chatting after the race and he said, I I don't even why don't you join Triathlon Australia? Because your times are good enough that you should be trying to qualify for the Australian teams. That's when I realised that if Dave's telling me this and he's been around the business for a long time, if if he's telling somebody this, you've got to believe it. So that was probably the first time I believed that I was good enough to be competing with people that are attempting to represent Australia.

Joshie 16:02

So then off that journey off I went. So was it during that conversation that you missed your medal presentation? Yeah, that's the one.

Nick 16:10

We were so in depth in conversation. We're only 30 metres away from the podiums, and we were so in depth in conversation. Yeah. When I turned around and Selena said to me, uh they've they've done medal presentations. And I said, have they done mine? And she said, Yeah, so each had to go down and beg for my medal and actually tell them who I was. And and so it was quite funny. But it was a memorable, certainly a memorable day. So that was that was a day for with that finish that we've spoken about as well. That's that's all packed into that one event.

Joshie 16:41

Yeah,

The Data-Obsessed Side of Racing

Joshie 16:42

one thing, Nick, that fascinates me about you is how analytical you are. Now, there is a fine line between being analytical and being obsessive, but you tend to study your competitors. Um, you have race tactics, um, you're heavily invested in you know, diet and nutrition. Has that always been part of your personality, or did participating and competing in triathlons unlock that side of you?

Nick 17:10

I was certainly I I I've always been a data nut, so you know, when you're a kid, follow football and you're always keeping data on your favourite teams and and things like that.

Joshie 17:19

Yeah.

Nick 17:20

Um, so and then through work, uh always fastidious for data spreadsheets and financials, all those things. But getting into triathlon, it was just when I was racing, it was just turning up and having a good time and finishing and it and picking up the occasional third place. Um when my diet changed and I got a little bit better, but certainly when Dave said you should be trying to represent Australia, and I thought, well, if Dave can show me or help me map out a path to that, then I can start building on that and start working on it. So when Dave explained to me this is how you do it, I built a spreadsheet and I tracked everything. And I I tracked every athlete in my age group that was competing for these twenty twenty spots in the Australian team. So I I needed to, I d I just wanted to make sure that I knew where I was at on the journey, and I it wasn't at the end where they would go, here's the points, or here's the team announcement and things, and big surprise. I I I I knew the minute one I think it out of 12 races, I think it was race nine, when at the minute race nine finished, and I knew who finished where, and I think that race might have been, say, Victoria. I knew whether I'd qualified or not that day, based on the data that I've been keeping. Really? And that's that's just I I've just I've it's it's kind of fun researching and seeing how the other guys go. And but a lot of us are you know very good friends on on course and some there's some great photos and um I'm having I'll just turn up to events and have hugs and get pushed away by some and get hugs back by others and we're all we're all good friends. There's a photograph of me racing in Australia where um on the run I I'm ahead of one of my friends, his name's Mark, and there's a photograph of us or a video of us that Selena had taken inadvertently where Mark's running past me on the run and uh he's tapped me on the back and he's just he's sledged me and said, What's wrong with you today, brother? Oh and then he just laughed, then he made me laugh, and then he took off and beat me by 40 seconds. Oh so there's there's there's all little things like that, but it's you know, there there's days where I I know I'm gonna beat somebody, but there's days where I can pick where I can where I can find some time. Uh there's events where I know that transition is gonna be real key for me.

Joshie 19:40

You know, Nick, one thing that I know you speak very openly about is um racing on a uh low carb uh diet. Um you're sort of you know self um self-confessed fat adapted um athlete.

Nick 19:54

Now am I fat adapted enough to do an Iron Man in four hours? Probably not. Um am I fat adapted enough to do an Iron Man in under six hours? Uh closer to five, yeah, absolutely. Um but yeah, if if if uh for for those that have those nutritional carbs that keep them through events and the gels and the bananas and all that sort of stuff, that's it works for them, that's great. And their times in most cases are better than mine anyway. So I'm not arguing with that. What I do is I don't have to worry about my food before, during, or after an event. Just turn up to an event, race, finish the event, and go home. That's that's pretty that's pretty as simple as it was. And that's my my wife, Selena,'s got a lot to do with that. She's diabetic, so she's low carb or zero carb. And um I just said to her that uh when we we came together a number of years ago, uh, she explained to me she was diabetic, and I said, Well, what do you eat? And she explained to me what she ate, and I said, That sounds great. I'll do that too. So I just adopted a low carb diet, and it supports her uh health-wise and lifestyle-wise, but it's it's been a revelation for me because it I dropped 15 kilos in a number about maybe three or four months and then all of a sudden my running got better, my cycling got better.

Learning to Train Less

Joshie 21:06

So can I ask, I mean obviously the triathlons have taken their toll on your body. I mean, it's hard to know whether or not your ankle would be in any different shape if you hadn't competed. Um, but how difficult do you find uh to balance that competitive drive that you have with listening to your body and the signals that it's giving?

Nick 21:31

I'm I'm better at it now than what I was or have been. Um there's periods I think, and uh COVID probably had a bit to do with it, it was periods there, and certainly COVID where I had more time on my hands, where I just kept pushing and pushing and pushing. And I had uh you wear the garment, of course, and then you set yourself goals, and I had running goals, cycling goals, swimming goals, um, walking goals, things like that. So I just it didn't matter whether I was injured, I'd just keep pushing. And I thought that's what athletes do. And My uh Selena said to me one day, why don't you just take the watch off? Just go cycling with it, just do everything without the watch. So I took it off. I I had I don't wear it when I ride my bike anymore. Um I I you know, I know I'm reasonably good on my bike. I I don't need to collect data for that. And that just reduced my I started reducing my training loads, which then actually was a less impact on the body. So now I train for what I was doing on average leading into COVID and certainly through COVID, but what I'm doing now, my training loads drop by 30 or 40 percent.

Joshie 22:33

So what are you just training um smarter? I mean, it what adjustments have you made to your, I guess, training regime to still be able to get as much performance as you as you have previously out of your body?

Nick 22:45

Yes, I try it training smarter, yes, but probably training lazier is probably the way of doing it. Because I I I enjoy my rest time and I I enjoy being at home and I enjoy being around animals and I enjoy being around Selena and I I I cherish that so much. So I'm I'm now not out doing 20 hours a week. I'd be flat out doing 10, 8 hours a week. And I swim two or three times a week, whereas I used to be swimming four or five, six times a week. I might run one or two two times a week now, where I used to run three or four times, push myself to run three or four times a week. And I used to cycle every single day. That is, I'd cycle to work, I'd do extras, um, I'd I'd find another hour in the afternoon or the morning to go for a bike ride. Now I I would ride maybe two days a week, three at best. Um and the the body, you know, as far as the body goes, recovery is is good, so I'm not fatiguing my body as much, but I know there's got to be a balance because as I'm getting older, uh my my body is easily or more easily um injured or strained, uh, and that's a trade-off. So if I was doing a heavier load, my body would be in a really, really bad way. So as I I know as I get older I've I've got to train a little bit lazy. So instead of just going out and running at the same pace, uh uh or running at my fastest pace that I possibly can, I might go out and do intervals or fartlicks or the the um the Jeffy method or yeah, the walk run. Oh yeah. Uh I'm happy to happy to go down the track and do 400s. Uh in the gym in the morning I'll do four hundreds with a walk between and things like that.

The Person Who Changed Nick's Life

Joshie 24:20

You know, you've mentioned your wife Selena a few times in this conversation. Um what would you say you're the most grateful to her for?

Nick 24:31

Uh the patience. So there's a there's a number of things between us that um that changed my life, so I'll uh I'd I was I had been married for 19 years and I have two beautiful girls, Lucy and Emily. Uh Lucy's just turned 20. Um Emily will be 18 uh early next year. And um it was uh a a a long marriage. Um I struggled in it. Yeah, I I probably wasn't the best husband and and alcohol was uh was a big part of my part in that marriage and uh it it wasn't healthy and yeah, food and weight and things like that. So in the end, as as does, um marriages fall apart, uh people grow apart and that was tough, and it was tough on the girls, it was tough on me. Um and then uh when I met Selena that um that just changed everything because she she brought immediate peace and calm to my life and complete understanding. And so there's it's been a whole heap of puzzles that we've picked up off the floor and kind of put together and it's it's just all made sense and just made made everything um just work and everything beautiful. And I you know, I I'm so blessed. You know, Selena every day, I I I just every day I'm just so blessed that she's in my life and I I I wouldn't be who I am and possibly to be honest, Josh might not even be here if it wasn't for her. And that's uh that's a big statement. But it's true. Thing things were you know in in the past things weren't great. But they're great now.

Joshie 26:00

So that's yeah, that's the best way to describe it. I love hearing that. And you you both um she's also a a triathlete. You guys compete together, is that right?

Nick 26:10

She got she got sick of carrying my bags. So she said she just she looked at me one day, she said, I'm doing a triathlon.

Joshie 26:19

Really? Oh that's good. So I thought that was a feature of your lives separately be we before you met.

Nick 26:26

She was a runner. She she had done 10K's, 21 Ks. She was um she'd she'd booked herself to go out and do the big red bash run before they cancelled it and turned it into the big red big big red bash music festival. Yeah. Um so she was a runner and she she still runs a bit now. But yeah, it was just the fact that she was I I think she got sick of turning up on triathlon mornings carrying my bag, and then anyone who's been to a triathlon waiting for their other partner or whoever it might be to race knows how boring it is because there's nothing to do but just watch people go like that every 20 minutes.

Racing Triathlons With Crocodiles Nearby

Joshie 27:02

You know, Nick, looking back at your 109 triathlons, um, which one stands out as being in your unbelievable hall of fame?

Nick 27:13

Darwin. Darwin was unique. Yeah. I look, I've I've done some fantastic events and I've had some brilliant finishes and um Australian championships and and and that for photo finish a couple of years ago. But yeah, Darwin Darwin for me was just the the pinnacle. And when I say unique, they've got a Darwin triathlon club up there, and they've they've got a whole series and a Northern Territory series that goes on and they do standards and duathlons or quathlons, and it's a it's a great community. And I I've made some great friends up in Darwin, but I had to go up there because Dave said to me, and I probably shouldn't be saying this, but because other people might cotton on, but Dave said to me on the qualifying for Australian journey, you've got to go race somewhere innocuous. And I said, Well, I'll go race in Darwin. So I set up to go race in Darwin. So we flew up there, I had to fly up there on a midnight flight, so I had to book in a hotel for four nights, even though I only got to stay for two, because you get in at 1 a.m. and you go straight to the hotel. Um but on on the day where you swim in Darwin is in Lake Alexander, which is only 30 metres from the beach where the crocodiles are and there's no fences. So there's no nobody can guarantee a crocodile doesn't just walk up over the road and jump in the lake.

Joshie 28:26

Not liking the sound of this to keep going.

Nick 28:29

But what what they tell you is crocodiles won't attack when there's a lot of people around. Crocodiles will generally just attack they'll they'll aim on one one item. But if there's a lot of people in the water and it looks like there's something big happening, crocodiles will generally leave you alone. So we all thought, yeah, just get in the water, we'll be fine. It's pretty spine-tingling though, swimming that lake. Particularly the day before when you're just doing the sightings of the boys, and you're kind of out there with two or other two one or two other people. And uh just thinking that the crocs sit right there. But that's that was pretty cool. The bike ride was really good. So Darwin, humidity-wise, um you would think very, very hot, but the bike ride in the morning, so early we started, because we started in the dark, but on the bike ride it was a beautiful, crisp, cool morning. Um while the sun was coming up. So the bike was pretty much shaded the whole way in in the very early morning light. And it was a beautiful bike ride. And uh, I've got a fantastic photo in Darwin of me just flying through one of the parks, and I despied the cameraman as I I luckily I can, gave them a nice wave and a big smile, and it's just a really nice, blurry kind of photograph. And um, but you got to the run, so bike off and and off on the run, sun comes up, humidity hits you, and uh the run was um awful. Oh it was just awful. But my goal was just to finish. I I I didn't know who I was racing, but I thought, you know what, I'm I'm going okay. Nobody's past me, so I'm going okay. So the guys that are ahead of me, they're gonna beat me for sure. The guys that are behind me aren't gonna catch me, so just finish. So I just sold my own finish. I ended up coming second, which was kind of cool. And then um I went over and uh said to the guy who came first, can I can I borrow you because I only gave one medal out, first place medal. And I said, Can I borrow your medal for a minute just so I can take a photograph of me wearing a medal in Darwin and show my wife? And he gave it to me. He said, Here you have it. You kidding? Do you still have it? I said, No, because I gave it back to me. He came down here and raced, and I deliberately took it back and I said, Thanks for that. Here's your medal back. And he was he was really happy about it. We've we've we've become we've actually become really, really, really good mates. And we we've run into each other in the the weirdest places. Yeah. So but um yeah, Darwin really stands out for me. It was so much fun, and we will go back there and race again for sure. It was it's a beautiful place, it's a beautiful town. But to go and do a triathlon in Darwin is really unique. And it's unique for me, and it'll be unique for the greater triathlon community, but yeah, just so much fun. So that that was yeah, by far the the the one event that stands out in my mind.

Joshie 30:58

Oh, that's

Why Racing at 80 Matters More Than a Marathon

Joshie 30:59

awesome. Oh, such beautiful stories. Um I think from what you've told me as well that in terms of your uh running, um, y I think the most you run is 25 kilometres or something like that. Um so the prospects prospect of running a a marathon from what you shared with me previously, perhaps is out of reach. I mean, is do you feel like you're you're missing out at all? No.

Nick 31:24

No. There's no chance. There's no chance. No chance. And I do enjoy the running. And the 25 was just pushing an effort for the T100 training I was doing earlier this year, and I was just enjoying running on that day, and I I got to 25, and my ankle had said that's enough, and I thought, well, I'd I I don't need to run any further. I could have pushed to probably 30, but I didn't need to run any further. Um, so I'm I'm happy. I've I've achieved 21 an a number of times. I've got a number of medals from half marathons and virtual half marathons and a heap of tens and plenty of jetty-to-jetties and things like that. Um, but uh a full marathon, just like a full Iron Man, Dave, if you're listening to this, no, no full iron man for me either. I'm happy with the halves. Halves suit me. I'm getting older and I've got to look after my body because I've still got that other goal to achieve to be racing when I'm 80. So I I need to be able to.

Joshie 32:22

It's interesting you mentioned that. Um I don't know if you remember this, but at the end of our chat about a month ago or thereabouts, you said something that really, really stuck with me. Um I don't know if you remember this. You said to have for me to have a conversation with 60-year-old Josh. And it really, really challenged me because most of us are driven by trying to make um our younger selves proud of us. You seem to be very future focused. You've always been setting these longer-term aspirational goals and having conversations in your case with your 80-year-old self. Um, where does that mindset come from?

Nick 32:57

I think that came from when I set the goal of to be competitive when when I'm 80. And it was about what is it, what is competitive what is being competitive look like when I'm 80? And you look around the trython community, and there are some brilliant people that are out there competing in in the 80 plus age category. And they they just keep going. And they're they're so proud. And the people around them are so proud. And I I want to be one of those people. And there's a there's a guy I keep running into at all the trython events, he just keeps turning up, and he him and his wife are just lovely people. His name's Bill Winter. And for those who know Bill, he's he's just a a a wonderful human being. And uh he's another one of those guys that I turn up, I we all have hugs and we just have a laugh and before and after, and um yeah, it's I I want to be that guy. To be that guy, I can't push myself or punish myself now, which is why I don't want to do marathons or or the lion man or things like that. I don't want to punish my body now that I become even more debilitated with injuries and ailments as I get older. So if I get an injury now, I can deal with it and I can overcome it. But as you get older, it gets harder to overcome. So Josh, when you you get my age, you'll you'll realize that a two-week injury is a four-week injury. And as you get older, it's a six-week injury, and then it's a two-month or a three-month injury, and all of a sudden you're doing one event a year. So I constantly check in with my 80-year-old self to go, what what am I doing today to make sure I'm going to be fine and fresh when I'm that age? And that that helps a lot. So when I think I'm injured, I want to go for a run. What does my 80-year-old self say today? Well, this is just rest. Go put the Normotech legs back on and sit down and read a book. Yep.

Joshie 34:44

The other thing, after we caught up a few weeks ago, um, and you emailed this to me, you shared a story um about someone called Stanson. Um, are you happy to share that story with us and the impact that it's had on you?

Nick 34:58

Yeah, that um that literally changed my life. That that six minutes. So um we uh I took Selena to Malulabartro athlete and she thought when when I signed up she thought, oh, she's just going to watch. And then I said to her, No, no, no, you're doing the run. And uh I'm just gonna swim and ride, because that's the part I enjoy. So you can do the run. Happened to be it was a few years ago now, but it just happened to be a really, really hot day that she went on the run and she said it was not much fun. She didn't enjoy it at all. But we were back at the hotel after uh that event, uh, because we were staying the Sunday night and we were just having uh sitting in the pool and just having something to eat. And she said to me, Oh, I had to be in Brisbane. There was a show in Brisbane tonight. What was that show? And she looked it up and it was called The Resilience Project. Mm-hmm. And uh she said, Oh, I bought tickets in COVID and they cancelled it and they rescheduled to now, and I just remembered it's on now. And I said, Well, why why why don't we go? She said, I don't think you'll enjoy it. And I said, Yeah, but do you want to go? She said, Yeah. I said, Oh, let's let's go. So we just packed the hotel up, forfeited the night, came back to Brisbane and went to uh the resilience project. Mm-hmm. So that's um Hugh Van Seilenberg, is it? But Hugh, when he was first talking about he was doing his resilience project um tour, he was talking about how he got into it, and he talked about his sister with anorexia and the challenges around that, and then he talked about going to um India with his girlfriend for a couple of weeks to do some uh teaching, some English teaching, and he ended up being there for several months. But in that time, in that story, he talks about uh a little boy there called Stanson. And Stanson's a reason I Stan Stanson is the reason I am who I am today. That the story of Stanson is profound. And it it it's really, really simple in the sense of, and and Shu talks about it, and there's it's if you if you go to YouTube and you type in the story of Stanson uh and you'll find it. Uh if you go to Paramount Plus, the risk the resilience project is still on Paramount Plus for you to go and watch Frank with this unit, the exact and it's the exact presentation that that I went to. So we went to the event and uh I should say we went to the event, we got in, we sat down and Hugh came on and I I started looking. He's an engaging guy, he's a funny guy, and he makes a bit of fun of himself, and he's he's a funny-looking guy as well, and he says that himself. But um Selena looked over to me when when we got through the story of his sister and we got into the story of Stanzen, uh Selena had looked over at me just to see how I was engaging with the show, and she s he swears for the entire time he was on stage, for the hour or so he was on stage, my eyes didn't leave him once. Wow. And I I was I was just focused on everything. Everything he said. But it was it was around the story of Stanson, which I'll I'll tell you now. So Stanson's a little boy in India, uh small village, and I I don't know exactly where, but um very poor community, and Shu had been there uh in the community and and Stanson was one of the boys in the school that he was teaching. And Stansen was just the happiest boy. And all Stanson wanted to do was go around and and talk about the things he was uh he was happy about. And he'd he'd look at his he'd he'd he'd walk over to the swing set which was broken and and something would move and he'd go this uh D I S dis And he'd look down at his old shoes and he'd go this and he'd look at his friends or whatever it might be and he'd go this and the story goes that Hugh tried to correct him, he go, No, no, no, it's not this, it's this because Stanson couldn't pronounce the T H. But it was this dis. What eventually happened was Shu had realized that Stanson was pointing out the things he was happy about, the things he was grateful for. And he was just walking around going, I'm I'm grateful for to have shoes, I'm grateful to have uh food, I'm grateful to have swings, I'm grateful to go to school. So he'd just say this, and that's all he would say was this, this. So for oh the thousands, tens of thousands of Australians now, if you said the word this to them, they would know exactly what you're talking about. And they would live that. And I live that. And I live it to the point that my licence plate says this and it has the word grateful underneath it. I've got the word this written on the back of my garage door that I see every day. Uh when I race for anyone that looked at my race photos, on one arm I've got the word this written on there in uh texture, and on the other arm I've got the word baby for Selena. Because I I can't write Selena with my left hand. And um that's how I raced. That's just a reminder to be grateful, and it's uh it's just a a life motto now. But without that six minutes, that story of stanzing, I'd I'd still be happy, but I I wouldn't have I wouldn't feel as grateful and blessed as I do now.

Joshie 39:48

The thing I'll take away from my conversation with Nick is that sometimes being a better runner isn't about doing more. It's knowing when to do less. Nick isn't training for next weekend or even next year. He's training for his 80-year-old self. And if Nick's story got you thinking about what it means to keep running for the long haul, then go back and listen to episode five, Mark Wigglesworth, who is routinely winning his age grade in his mid-60s, and it's not through good luck. And if you're enjoying Run Believable, don't forget to hit follow because next week, imagine running for 24 hours nonstop, dribbling a stockable.

Brookie 40:27

The second I crossed that finished line, I just got this overwhelming sense of pride and just disbelief. Like I remember saying to myself, you can fucking do anything.