E3 Fostering - Who Cares? Brightstar: Changing lives through boxing, education and mentoring.

In this episode we are joined by the founder of Brightstar - Joe Lockley to hear about how this inspiring organisation has helped thousands of young people to overcome many challenges and access education.

Brightstar: Changing lives through boxing, education and mentoring.

We know the massive difference boxing, mentoring, education and community support can make when it comes to empowering these positive changes, especially for vulnerable people and young people at risk. We run the Brightstar Boxing Academy, Brightstar Futures and Brigthstar Community programmes across the West Midlands.

https://www.brightstarboxing.co.uk/

Families First are a proud partner agency of Brightstar and our work together in supporting young people.

https://www.familiesfirstfostering.co.uk/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Hi, welcome to episode three of Fostering Who Cares. I'm Rachel Davis and I'm the founder of Families First Fostering, a therapeutic fostering agency in the Midlands. In this episode, we're joined by Jo, the founder of an organisation called Bright Star. They inspire young people through boxing to overcome many challenges and to access education.

SPEAKER_04 0:32

Hello, hello, how are we doing?

SPEAKER_01 0:35

Grand.

SPEAKER_04 0:36

Grand? Okay. Um today's our uh third uh episode of uh Families First Fostering uh podcast called Who Cares? And uh my name's Louise Harkin, and we have as our co-host Um Jonathan Clayton and our guest speaker today, keynote speaker, entrepreneur, is a young man called Joe Lockley, and he runs an organization called Bright Star. So we're gonna speak to Joe today about his organisation and everything that they do for the children in our local area. You're Shropshire-based, Joe. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_02 1:13

Yeah, that's right. We're based in Shiffnell.

SPEAKER_04 1:15

Based in Shiffnell. And you've got some hubs, as it were, you've got some gems around, I think, is it Walsall, Stoke and Shrewsbury?

SPEAKER_02 1:23

Yeah, that's it. Yeah, we run um run a number of different centres across the West Midland.

SPEAKER_04 1:26

Well, we we brought you in today, Joe, because we wanted to talk to you about your organization. And I know from uh having you come as a guest speaker to our family's first office base in Belston, thank you very much, in the last year and the one in stone. The impact that you made to our foster parents and the story that you shared about how your organization, do you call it organisation, do you call it company? I know you're thinking there's things changing in that sense, but uh what do you call it?

SPEAKER_02 1:53

Yeah, we call it an organization.

SPEAKER_04 1:55

Okay. But yeah, with that, I think um it it's it's been pretty inspirational from what from what I know of you and the things that you've you do for the children and your your your whole company and the team around you, your mentors, that it's just inspirational, really. I know that some of the foster cares that we've had in our small company have talked about the fact that if you were involved with their children, especially those from the age of 11 and up that were having difficulties in school, that you would have changed the outcomes for those children. So what I really wanted to do today was to talk about, you know, why you care, why your company cares about these children and what your backstory is really around what led you to having bright star, really, if you don't mind giving us some of your backstory.

SPEAKER_02 2:42

Yeah, that's a a real kind of it could be a real deep question. We've all kind of got passion in the things we do, and I think that's got to come from some sort of lived experience. So for me, sport was what massively changed my life when I was when I was growing up. I guess sport is what gave me that feeling of belonging that made me feel like I was in control. Sport really kind of gave me a sense of significance and achievements. And I'm a very, very tall person, I'm six foot seven, right? So I was always naturally quite good at some different sports. I got good reach in boxing, I was, I was quite, quite strong. And what I found when I was growing up is that I could be I I would struggle to know exactly who I was. My identity became a real problem. You know, I lived in a um I grew up in a very little village in Shropshire that's like a retirement village. I was the only person there that was probably under under 50 years old. And between there and then obviously leave my my family's house and my nan's house where I went to school, everything like that. I was in the middle of Telford and that was a lot busier. So I kind of really struggled to see where I should fit in, who I should be. So I'm an only child as well. And as a result, what I became really, really good at is building an identity that was liked by other people because I never thought that I'd be liked for who I am. So what I tend to do is be like, okay, these guys are cool, so I need to be more like them. And I see them as almost role models and try and fit in. And every single group I went around and pretended to be that person. And what you'd find is that when you create a character that's liked by other people, you lose your own authenticity, you lose your own identity. And that's what started happening to me. So I so I became such a people pleaser, yeah. That I really couldn't didn't know who I really was. And it's exhausting doing that all the time. 100% it is, yeah. And you know what? I was I was fat the the guys that I thought were the ones that were liked by a lot of people, the ones I thought these guys are popular, they were the ones that were getting involved in all the wrong stuff. And you know, my mum would look back and say they were the the rum crowd. Yeah. And as a result, you know, if I look back to them people now, you know, what one of them one of them has died, two were in prison, and it's kind of like they were on path when I was a young teenager. They were the cool guys, they're the ones that had to be like, and because I was this person they liked that created, and whatever they did, I went a little bit further to get their respect. Yeah, that's where I really kind of fell down the wrong lane. And it was only sport that took me out of it. When I was when I was competing in sport, when I was hanging around with the team, when I was actually punching a punch bag, that's when I could really regulate my emotions. That's what I could be myself, and people would like me because of I was part of a team. I was part of something that they were going towards. And as a result, I was happy to be myself a little bit when I was playing sport, but more myself when and some no, I wasn't when I was hanging around with these guys. And I was quite happy to do that. And I was actually because I was doing okay with football, I was asked to coach the junior football team. And I was like, Yeah, cool, no problem. What age were you then? I was 15 then. Okay, that's really good. And I coached them for about a year, and one of the young people there, so they were the under nines team, so one of the young people seven or eight years old, they came up to me and said, Um, we're writing about our role model at school. Can we write about you? And I along to my life and I was like, if they knew all the things that I was getting up to, they would not want me as a role model. And I always think the moment you're willing to make a change is the moment where you associate more pain to stay in the same than you do with making a change. Because I associated like no pain with what I was doing either way, I associated pleasure with both. I was happy to do it all in that moment there. That was a moment that I'll never forget where I associated more pain with hanging around with these guys, being unauthentic. So I made a promise to myself then that I would just be completely authentic and I would just be myself. And as a result, I came away from that group. You know, it was very, very difficult at the time to go away from that and actually have no friends at the time. But I started pushing that actually was like a weight off my shoulder. I started progressing in my sport, but building more friendships, developing exactly who I was, and that path took me on a path where I just wanted to be a role model for more of these young people. Yeah. Yeah, and I think that pain and pleasure principle was what really changed that moment for me.

SPEAKER_01 6:56

The thing that resonated with you speaking, Anjo, was that a lot of our children have no identity, they feel a loss of identity, don't they? You know, they're taken from the families. A lot of the time they want to people please, they want to people please because it keeps them safe, they want to people please because it's the only thing that they have control of. That's right. Um and when you haven't got much control as a child, uh it can be quite how can we say, very daunting for our children. So I think giving them purpose, such as It's a focus, isn't it? Yeah. Your organization and what you do. I think it's it's it's really good.

SPEAKER_02 7:36

And I agree that this the thing, two words you mentioned there, safety and control. So they're two real key things. I think it's very, very hard for people to actually choose long-term happiness over anything sort of safety safety. So by me hanging around with that group, that was safe, that was my safety. And actually, I could never be vulnerable or myself around them. But in the sports environment, that's where I could really be vulnerable. And with vulnerability, that builds trust. Yeah. And trust builds safety. That's that's the kind of pyramid that I was working towards without realizing that.

SPEAKER_04 8:04

You you were your authentic self. Exactly right. Yeah. Stripping off those layers of your and that young person gave you that, allowed you to be that way.

SPEAKER_02 8:13

Yeah, I could be loved for who I was rather than liked for who I wasn't. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:17

Because our children carry a shield of shame, they carry so much armor, so many layers that it's very difficult to to strip that back.

SPEAKER_04 8:25

Because they get libel then, don't they? And it's similar to some of the children, probably Joe works with it. There's that libel then of this is the challenging child and this is the child that we can't fit.

SPEAKER_01 8:34

Yeah, when you when you see a you know a black and white referral coming through, or you know, it's basically you know saying to to whoever this child is this, but actually they're not, they're a child, they there's there's so many so much depth to that child that um you know just somebody writing one word, this child is such and such. Yeah, it's so so damaging.

SPEAKER_04 8:56

But and but I think this is what I love about Bright Star, they they give the child the child back that power as well, so that control, and they take ownership and they have their own voice. So on that, I think what what I loved of your story, if you can give us some of the background around how Bright Star, it started up in 2016, but how a couple of six children, I think, stuck you know, created the logo, they came up with the you know the mission statement as it were, but how you you've probably allowed them, if that makes sense, to to to be that way, to take ownership because you also were in their shoes. You you felt what they were probably feeling. So can you explain uh how Bright Star came around then from leading on from you know your journey as a coach and the sport world that you were on?

SPEAKER_02 9:45

For for me it all kind of started completely by mistake. It was I was I was boxing and I was boxing with my friend, and we went to the the local gym and you know they've got all the weights equipment and that and they've just got two punch bags at the back. And myself and my friend Stu, we were just punching the punch bag, and then a parent came up to us and actually said, Can you help my son? And it was someone that I knew that I that would kind of like grew up and saw my my transition and kind of saw how much it had helped me.

SPEAKER_03 10:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:15

So the parents had to look at the moment he's you know in respite care this weekend. I'm really, really struggling, he's struggling to regulate his emotions. He's had a number of different social workers over the last year, and he doesn't really have a positive male role model in his life. And at the time I thought to be able to help someone, you need to have an extensive list of qualifications and be a qualified therapist. And I was like, I don't know if I can help them, but what I do know is I can teach them how to box and that helped me. And she goes, Yeah, we'll need to do anything, let's see what happens. So means Jew spoke to the the person who ran the gym, Dave Caulfield, and we said, Um, can we just hire a bit of space here? And he was like, Yeah, of course, no problem. Or we don't use it on this evening, this evening. So every Tuesday night we have the space for like an hour and a half, two hours. And I said, for one person to come down to that session, it's gonna be a pretty poor boxing session. So if he can bring some of his friends on that, that'd be amazing. So there were six of them that were all the the the one was was who would the mum referred, and then the five friends were people who she didn't actually like him hanging around with. So we booked that session, and I thought an hour and a half, two hours of boxing will be absolutely fine. Soon realized after two minutes that that was way too long, and they're gonna get too, too tired. So we probably did 15 minutes of boxing, then had a chat. 15 minutes of boxing, had a chat just about what was going on, and they were improving their boxing, they were doing really, really well. I didn't realise how much that would translate to them improving the wide of their life. So we had a call come through. The first one was from the proof that they were at and said, Can I refer more people in? This is huge, like their their attendance increased massively. And I was like, No, no, no, this is just for these guys, sorry, we're just gonna do this project short term, see what happens. And then I got a call from a social worker asking to refer more. Again, I said no. And it wasn't until I got this one call from the one person's nan, and he lived with his nan, and his nan like broke down into tears on the phone and was like, I feel like I've got my family back together. Thank you, thank you, thank you. And I was like, just please stop thanking me. I haven't done anything here. It's it's it's all this young person. So I sat them down and I said, What's happened? I'm getting some really amazing phone calls about how much you're changing your life, what's going on, what's causing the changes. Maybe I can help and we can feed some that in.

SPEAKER_04 12:27

Is that the first time you asked a child that though?

SPEAKER_02 12:29

That's the first time.

SPEAKER_04 12:30

Apart from some small informal conversations undirect through the boxing and all of that.

SPEAKER_02 12:34

Yeah, I guess I'd asked them most of the work was just asking open questions, what's going on here? Oh, well, if you do that, what about this? And then we were we were, I suppose, informally really meant to be. Aye. That's what I mean.

SPEAKER_04 12:44

There was a distraction with the with the boxing and everything. So it wasn't too direct.

SPEAKER_02 12:48

This is the first time we took a step back and rather than looking at the next problem of what's happening currently, what they've achieved and what's going on. And the words they used, I thought they'd say, Yeah, I feel stronger, I feel fitter, I feel faster. But they were nothing to do with boxing. One said, I feel like this is my family. One said, I feel like I'm in control. One said, I feel like I'm accepted here. And all the words, belonging, significance, control, it really showed me that this was a lot more than just a sport for them. Yeah, yeah. This is where they really felt like they could achieve amazing things. So I said to them, six, I said, we need to do more of this. There's people that want to come in. Can we let them in? What do you think? And they were all for it. They're like, Yeah, let's do it, let's start a club, let's all get matching t-shirts, everything like that. I was like, all right, cool, let's do that.

SPEAKER_04 13:32

This is where it starts getting really excited when I remember you telling them, sorry, so go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 13:36

No, and I just I just said to them, if we're gonna do this, you're gonna have to be on board a bit. Let's call it a committee. And you guys are gonna have to come up with the name, the logo.

SPEAKER_04 13:43

So you're giving them ownership from the start, right? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:47

And they so they went, yeah, cool, let's meet. And they all agreed to meet with their bikes at this place and tomorrow and everything. So I did have a drive past to see if they were meeting. They all were, they were all sat by this tree with their bikes there with a little pad and paper. Yeah, and they came in the next day and one of the young lads uh Liam came in with his chest out like this, and he walked up to me and he goes, We've got a great name we have. And I was expecting something like Schiffnal or Brighton Boxing Club. And he goes, We want to call it Bright Star Boxing. I was like, Why are you going to call it Bright Star Boxing? And he goes, You can only see a bright star on a dark night, and that's where we came from.

SPEAKER_01 14:19

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 14:20

Isn't that powerful? Made me go all I know just bumps.

SPEAKER_02 14:23

And then you you think if they can come up with that, what else can they come up with? How can you just base this around exactly what they need? So from there, everything started. We opened up the uh a referral pathway, as it were, and we um started getting a lot more people in. It was all people that could benefit from the values of boxing and then the what all the needs it was meeting rather than just the sport itself. Yeah, and that was a real start of us. We started getting people in that weren't attending schools, we started up in alternate provision, we got people in that um wanted more of a space to talk than do the boxes, start up mental help support groups, lead programs, and everything that's kind of evolved from them section people and what their needs were.

SPEAKER_04 14:58

So can can I ask you for other other people that are out there maybe looking to start their own organizations? Because there's similar uh organizations out there in Shropshire, now like yourselves. But did you get any really good support at that starting base of you trying to set up your own organization? Did the Shropshire Local Authority help or anything like that? Did you get a I think there's like we have the growth hub here in Shropshire? Did you have any?

SPEAKER_02 15:20

Yeah, yeah, definitely. I've I guess I didn't know much about anything there, but I I guess what I'm really good at is being really curious and I'll ask loads of questions. Yeah, so uh organization that I worked for before, Energize, they're the active partnership. They um there's people in the roles that were helping me there. The Shropshire Chamber helped me come up with Chamber of Commerce, is it?

SPEAKER_04 15:42

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:42

Okay, we're on the Chamber of Commerce. I've met some really great people.

SPEAKER_04 15:45

Is that the people that gave you an award recently?

SPEAKER_02 15:47

Yeah, they did a chamber.

SPEAKER_04 15:48

So you want to just not even move away from what we're talking about, but do you can you tell us about what what award you your company got there recently?

SPEAKER_02 15:54

Yeah, the Shropshire Business Awards, we won um we won community organization of the year.

SPEAKER_04 15:57

That amazing.

SPEAKER_02 15:58

Yeah, fantastic. But again, that came from I think what they said is when they came in and judged us. We didn't really know what they were judging, what they were looking for, but with the young people came and they actually spoke to the judges about that stuff.

SPEAKER_04 16:10

And you keep doing that. This is what I like about your your company and your ethos and and your team around you, as you bring the children forward, you have the children's speech so authentic it's so authentic, yeah. Do not know that it's completely the voice of the child. Everything that we as an agency and families first you know look look at and and and push for. So going back to you know, the support, the beginning of those days, I think I remember you telling me from previous conversations, Joe, there was as we have in our careers as well, different professionals coming on, and not to go on a negative slant, but different professionals coming in and giving that negative slant on, or you're creating a monster, as it were, in the sense of like, you know, what what this boxing can do and what it can bring to the table for these children. There was a a therapist, I think, that you'd worked with. Do you want to tell that story?

SPEAKER_02 16:55

I thought that I won't name therapist there, but I think at the at the st at the start, uh being completely honest, we didn't know what it was that was making the change, we didn't really know what what we were doing really. And I I think because we'd helped a number of young people, we almost got into the stage where we're like, okay, we could help anyone, we can support anyone. And I was asked to go and speak on BBC Radio Shopshire. And I think I talked on there about the work we were doing, and I was young, I didn't really know what I was saying. One of the words I said was, I said, Oh yeah, we can help anyone we can definitely use sport to help anyone. And that evening I had more phone calls than I've ever had in my life. Everyone, I want to refer my brands. I'm gonna get this person involved, let's get them all involved. Um, we didn't even have the space for all these people, but I remember I got one phone call, I'll never forget, that was from a therapist. And he was going crazy at me down the phone. He was saying, Bopsin is uh used to weaponise, these young people can be violent, you shouldn't be teaching them this, that, and the other. And um, and he's and then he went and said, You can't say you can help anyone, there's people that can't be supported, blah, blah, blah. And I was getting really, really read this up the phone. I was like, You're trying to squash the belief I've got here where I've just kind of seen the that empire and spirit, and yeah, yeah. And and I said to him, I said, Hold on, hold on. I said, Have you ever actually seen what we're running?

SPEAKER_04 18:15

Uh he's a brilliant answer. I was like John.

SPEAKER_02 18:17

Yeah. And I said, Have you met any of the young people we've worked with? And he he said, No. And I said, So, you know, as a as a psychologist, you're you're making a hypothesis about something based on a comment I've made on a on a radio station. I said, Come and see the evidence. Come and see, come and see. And if you really dislike it there, brilliant.

SPEAKER_04 18:35

Yeah, what what are you afraid of? That's really what you've got to think of. What what's the fear? Where's the fear there coming from this therapist? Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 18:41

He's obviously had some sort of bad experience with the sport and things like that.

SPEAKER_04 18:44

And I guess if Or you're taking these children away from my line, do you know what I mean? My line of work and you don't know.

SPEAKER_01 18:50

I don't think that professional handled that very well at all. No. And I would be questioning, you know, his reason behind that. It's really very unprofessional.

SPEAKER_04 19:00

So how did they answer then when you said why didn't you come and see?

SPEAKER_02 19:03

They they agreed to come down. That actually, well, you know, we we it led to a very back and forth on the phone, and they were like, um, you know, there's people you can't support. And I said at the time, I said, Well, there hasn't been anyone that hasn't been able to support yet. Right. Very arrogantly, very bad. Bearing this time I'd probably only supported about 15 or 20 years.

SPEAKER_04 19:17

Yeah, but for how many but for that person to come out like that, you had to come back with that retort, didn't you? Well somewhere, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:22

He said, Yes, there is. And I said, in that case, the people who you aren't able to support, please refer them into us and let's see if we can do something else. Um and he was just saying, actually, you know, we got into a conversation where he was working with a young person, and you know, I can I can use this young person's name because we've we've worked with we've got we've they're very over 18 now, we're um we're doing amazing things, and this young person was called Brandon, and he and the therapist was kind of at the end where he said he can't meet needs, he wants to move them, you know, see if there's anything else they can get involved in. I said, Bring Brandon Lung, please, bring Brandon Lung. And just to give you a little bit of background, this person was very uh was schoolphobic, was not attending at all.

SPEAKER_04 19:57

He wasn't even he wasn't leaving the house if I remember.

SPEAKER_02 20:00

He wasn't leaving the house at all. And I remember this guy who's shouting at me at the phone. I thought he's gonna come into the session tonight. He's good, do I need to be worried or anything like that? And I was imagining this really big bloke that's gonna come in and be angry at me, and this little bloke walked in and toddled in and was like, I bought you Brandon and all this, almost almost as if to say, Okay, it's your job now, you fix him, and I was like, Yeah, I thought in my head, I thought, Brandon's come in and Brandon is scared to leave the house, but he's come in for a reason. And I walked out and I went and met with him when we got the warm-up started. And I remember I gave him a fist pump and um said Brandon, he goes, I'm not taking part today, I'm not taking part today. I said, That's cool, Brandon. Don't have to take part at all. But yeah, what I'm really looking for is do you fancy being my assistant coach today? These are the things I'm looking for in a boxing stance. If they drop their hand, this is what you've got to do, this is what you're gonna do. And he's like, Oh yeah, cool, I'll be assistant coach, I can go and like tell you all what to do and everything. I was like, Yeah, yeah, cool.

SPEAKER_04 20:52

You gave him a role, you gave him an identity to do that, yeah, purpose, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:56

Within 10 minutes, he was joining in, he was skipping, he was hitting the bags, he was doing amazing. And I suppose, long story short, Brandon managed to within six weeks, Brandon managed to get back into school. We gave him a pair of shorts with the word believe on it, and we called him Brandon Believe. That was his boxing. Yeah, and he did some incredible things, and he's yeah, we managed to get back into school, he managed to really kind of take ownership of his life and he developed some really, really good friends group, and it didn't help me thinking that we could we could help every single person.

SPEAKER_04 21:23

But that's that's not realistic, is it?

SPEAKER_02 21:25

The the the therapist that was there actually started referring more to people to actually what I really like that is we could change his perception around what sport can do. And I completely get it by the way. When I grew up in boxing, there are a lot of so that well, there are some clubs that really just want to produce champions and they wouldn't be there kind of trying to meet everyone's needs. Yeah. And that's the same with any sport. Some sport is around competition, some sport is around sport for change. And uh, what I really want to do is align that and actually separate some of the things and see exactly how we can utilise sport to better support young people.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

Yeah. I think the professionals need to rely more on the experience of people, the lived experience. And I think that's what they are trying to to do in universities now is to get people with the lived experience on board and get them to learn from them because it's okay to learn from textbook, it's okay to, you know, pass this qualification. But when you're actually working with people, people with the experience, that's when, you know, that's when the true learning comes in.

SPEAKER_04 22:28

Totally.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

And I think that that that that that person really missed out. And I think I well, I know that you've shown him, you know, the fruits of the labour and that the fact that it does work. And I do hope that he's reflected on that and changed.

SPEAKER_04 22:42

And and we know from working with young people, having mentors come in. It's almost like as well, you know, we've got mentors and and the agencies and fostering, but like foster parents, for example, moving away from children, foster parents having foster parents that have already done the job, love, live through, you know, the challenges and ups and downs of fostering, they listen to them more so. They don't see that person's if they're they they understand and walk and walk them up, walk them up and talk the talk, don't they? And I think that arm of org with people that you have in your organization, you've got mentors and and your your programmes, don't you, Jo? Do you want to talk so much some way around the futures program and the education now and how you've progressed now from that from the beginning to where you are now as as regards your what's going to be a charity pretty soon? Yeah, that's right. I've been led to believe, right?

SPEAKER_02 23:30

Yeah, that's correct. So yeah, the the futures programme is an education programme. So it's for those, it's for those young people that are struggling to manage in a mainstream school environment. What we want to do is want to give them the tools to be able to thrive regardless of what environment they're in. I think that what we found is you said it perfectly there, the mentors in the people that you've worked with, they really listen to the young people.

SPEAKER_03 23:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:51

And sometimes in in education, a teacher has a very tough job having 30 people in the class. It's very hard to meet all the needs, but it can become very much like, this is my class, this is what you do. And a young person with a trauma background, they're going to struggle and not feeling like control. And quite often, what we need to do is a child will show a particular behaviour and then they will get punished for that behaviour. And actually, what we need to get better at is understanding what purpose is that behaviour serving, what needs is that behaviour meeting. So that's one of the things we try and do with the future program, really understand the the needs, what what needs they're communicating through their behaviours. Every behaviour is a communication and it's it's a cry out for help. Exactly, exactly. So there's one example, you know, last year I worked with there was a a school that ran me saying they've got a girl that is at risk of being excluded. And it's always the sessions after lunch, especially just on three of the days, as geography nests with the two-mane ones, yeah, where they'd be throwing tables, throwing chairs. And so I said, Can I come in and work with her and see what's happening? Just as almost like a the last strand before before they get excluded. And I asked the school, I said, What is currently being done? I said, Oh, well, well as behavior, this is that policy. We have to put them in isolation. And isolation is a reflection room where they, you know, they have time to reflect and think about what's happened. And alarm bells were just going off. And I was like, so this person has just expressed a fight or flight mode there. Yeah, they're trying to have an email, then you've stuck them in a room. And I said, How does that go down? I said, Well, not well, you know, she can be very violent in them rooms and started labelling this girl with all these things going on. And this was the the quickest I'd ever worked with anyone for. Normally, we what you really want to build a relationship that can thrive for as long as possible. But this was more around finding what the school were doing around and what you could change around what the school was happening in the school. So there was a all all it was was this um girl was witnessing a lot of violence at home. And during lunchtime, that was where it was very loud. It was very much there was a lot of shouting and screaming and so she was getting triggered to the environment she had at home at back at lunchtime.

SPEAKER_04 26:02

So you figured that out then.

SPEAKER_02 26:03

Yeah, well, that was it's just a very short conversation to find out what was going on there, and then what would happen is when she came in, her way of coping with that was I'm gonna put my hood up and block everything up. Yeah, and that's cool, that's brilliant that she's recognised that's how that makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 26:16

That's self-pref pre preservation, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 26:19

Really? But there were two particular teachers or two particular lessons that she'd go into straight after school. Uh sorry after lunch. After lunch, yeah, sorry, and um straight away the teacher would be like, get your hood down and shout. And obviously with what she's witnessing her and the shout, and she's already feeling at this state where she's very, very sensitive sensitive and that's that's just set her off. Shout out that's so her fight and flight reaction was I've got to throw things that'll make me safe, that'll make me safe. So it's about reprogramming, rethinking about how we can deal with that situation differently. But for the actual school to actually get them, get her to stay in school, meeting a need so so different is actually if she does come in with a hood up, just ask her nicely. And also, it's triggering this lunchtime. Can we get like give her part of the sports hall with her or friends to have with? They did that, no problem at all. And since then, there's not been any instance like that at all.

SPEAKER_04 27:06

Very simple. But it's very, very simple.

SPEAKER_02 27:08

And it just goes back to but you asked me.

SPEAKER_01 27:11

You were being curious. That's that's professional, you know, curiosity.

SPEAKER_04 27:15

Professional curiosity, aye.

SPEAKER_01 27:17

And that just goes a long way.

SPEAKER_04 27:19

Oh, massively. So it's again, it's about the adults what's it seems to be the thing. The adults again changing their approach and and and having the child, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 27:28

Yeah. I th I I think going forward that everything education-wise, society society needs to be more trauma informed because lots of us have adverse childhood experiences. We forget that childhood can be quite painful. And I think that people it's not a one-size-fit fits all.

SPEAKER_04 27:45

No.

SPEAKER_01 27:46

Especially in education, and I think that they need to be a bit more trauma-informed away. And it is going that way.

SPEAKER_04 27:52

Yeah, well, well, we we've talked about this a lot because we John and I have said, Joe, that some of the foster parents that we work with, or we've known previously, they also bring their trauma, their adverse significant events that's happened in their life, and have they really dealt with them? And if they haven't, there's who's to say that their anxieties isn't brought to the table? Do you know what I mean? In the sense of they it's always not blaming the child, but it's like, well, but the child did this, the child did that. But what what did you bring as influence? So it's not blaming that all, but it's about saying, why not why not let's look at what you may have not dealt with in your past, talk that through, we'll support you with it, we'll we'll provide some therapy, but talking through it and saying, you know what, maybe I didn't really deal with those situations that I've had, be it a loss of a parent or a loss of a career or loss of a marriage, you know, it's certain things that that may have happened. And us as an agency are working where we're we're doing training with foster parents around trying to get them to really understand by them dealing with their own stuff and baggage, as we called it, can help them be a better foster parent. Because, like teachers with you know the professionals that you work with, if they come on with their own baggage, like the targets they have to meet at school, like the classroom sizes and the the intense pressures of trying to get children to settle in that classroom environment. If those teachers or those foster parents that we work don't work on their own anxieties and understand that the transference of their own anxieties onto the classroom and how they raise their voice and that non-verbal, you know, way of coming across and the teacher shouting at that young lady, that they have to take ownership of their own stuff, as it were. So I think it's really about us changing our approach as well and how we think on how to work with some of these children who've come from come from very difficult backgrounds. They shouldn't be shamed or blamed. It's it's easy for us to sit back and you know, it's almost like on the sidelines of a football match. It's easy to sit back and say, Oh, you didn't play too well today, or you know, you didn't hit that box. And you know, there recently, what was that box? A match that was on uh who was that guy that played recently and and lost? What was that big fight?

SPEAKER_02 29:56

The Chris Hubanky must be right. Was that Chris Hubank?

SPEAKER_04 29:59

Yeah, you know what I mean? But you know, you've all these boys sitting along the side and they're like they're betting on who's gonna win. And you know what I mean? It's all about the mental stuff, isn't it? Really? I mean, I'm an ungod off on a tangent, but I just think there's a lot of naysayers out there, and I think we need to really just think differently about how we approach working with young young children for sure.

SPEAKER_02 30:18

Yeah, I think I think it's very easy to blame a child, but actually I think if proper the system, proper organization will reflect and think, what could I have done differently and how am I seeing the behaviour? And actually, I always think if if a flower doesn't bloom, you don't blame the flower, you look at the environment, don't you? Yeah, why wasn't it watered? Why wasn't it fed?

SPEAKER_01 30:37

It's it's a child is bought up, a child is influenced by the adults and people caring for them. And I think that's where we have to look. We can't blame a child, we have to look at everything around them to say, well, let's let's be curious about this, let's be curious about that. Yeah. So yeah, it's it's there's no blame on a child that shouldn't be.

SPEAKER_02 30:58

It's got to feel like a really safe environment. Do you know what? One of the best things that I I learned was when I was an old coach of mine, they shouted at me at one of the games, and I felt really, really low. And then the next time I was at the session, they came up and actually went in for glover and they went, listen, I shouted two of you here, you two here. And I'm so, so sorry. I'm going through a lot of difficulties at the moment, and I've taken out on you, and that's so bad. I've reflected, and I realised that isn't working for me to do. Yeah. How can I, how can I, you know, how can you feel it? Make it better. And if you're on the human fact, and the fact that they were vulnerable enough to open out, that led to allowing me to be vulnerable and things that I was going through. And actually, that coach is created my mind where he's wrong, but they are gonna make mistakes, and that's absolutely fine.

SPEAKER_04 31:41

No one's perfect. Yeah, yeah. That's continue to do that. We say that to the foster parents, don't we?

SPEAKER_01 31:45

I was gonna say that's what we encourage. We we know as a foster parent, we don't get it right all the time. You know, if at all, sometimes it it you you're just a human being, uh, you're trying to do your best, you're trying to coach these children, you're trying to empower them. You don't get it right all the time, but that repair that you do afterwards, that healthy repair, showing emotion to them, showing that you're vulnerable is key because they then mirror that image. So if you know, when I've cried in front of my children, you know, they've seen that I've been vulnerable and it's allowed them to feel vulnerable and for them to open up and peel back the layers, like you said.

SPEAKER_04 32:24

Yeah, exactly. And I think that's why I don't keep going back to mentors, but I think that's why that works because they have themselves have walked that path and they the child can relate to them, they feel as if talking to them, and and it's just been able to say it's okay, I'm not okay.

SPEAKER_01 32:39

And sometimes they need to separate a lot of things, like there is you know, there's evidence that keeping education and home separate is healthy for the child, and it is. I struggle with that at first, but I actually, you know, the proofs in the pudding with our children, it it works so well, you know, they feel safe in our home, and so what they don't want to do is to bring the trauma of school back to home, yeah, and vice versa. So I think that having an outlet like Bright Star for a lot of our children would be ideal because it again it's giving them an extra space to explore, to feel safe, to feel the belonging, but to know that they've got the security to come back to home and then they've still got that they can park it almost, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:30

It's like they can park whatever has happened there and then just come home and as you said, they feel safe. So, where what's the future of Pardon the Pun? I know it's one of your your future programme uh is to do with um sport and education. What's where what's the plans here for Bright Star going forward, Joe?

SPEAKER_02 33:46

I mean we're very, very ambitious as an organization, and as you've heard, you know, I think that the at the moment the world needs to make significant changes to support young people to thrive. So our mission is we want to be able to change the way that the world works for young people. And the way I see it is I see that the sports sector aligning closely with you know the social care sector, the education sector, and actually encouraging empowering sport for change. And that's globally, it could tackle real, real world issues. And sport does have the power to change the world if it chooses in the right way.

SPEAKER_04 34:19

Yeah, because it channels those anxieties, doesn't it, as well? And that there's a lot more children these days, be it COVID or for whatever other reasons, you know, that we're living in times of like, you know, not necessarily destitution, but people are struggling, cost of living, and the impact of that on homes and on the children. The children are some of the most vulnerable, aren't they? So we know that there's gonna be more and more children, unfortunately, coming through maybe the foster care system or coming into care and they're dealing with and witnessing domestic violence and all these other range of things. I think sport is that discipline, it's a discipline, isn't it, that's gonna really help in a in a enough pathway that's not so structured where the child has to sit in that classroom and conform to the you know the the norms and that's you know whatever we need to do to get them back on track and and the proofs in the pudding, really, because you're working now with is it over is it over 600 children and locally? Yeah, and and it's that's spreading. And how have you got your organization's name out there in relation to nationwide? I know you've worked well you've not you've you've been on panels, some Olympic on some Olympic panels. Do you want to just tell us a little bit about that, please, if you don't mind?

SPEAKER_02 35:25

Yeah, we've um so we're so fortunate enough to be able to share the boards of the young people in some really major events. So the pre-Olympic ministerial conference in Paris or um at the World Expo in Dubai, and we've been chatting to some um real key movers and shakers, some really key politicians that really want to make a difference. So um at the moment we're trying to work in in especially in other countries to be able to see how they are willing to utilize sport to make system change to tackle real issues within their countries. And I guess to be able to do that, we've got to be able to elevate the voice of the young people and show that every single person deserves a sense of belonging and really challenging impact that we can have with that. Um, so there's two real strands to bright stuff. You've got the delivery side of things, which is where we run different programs, the different groups, the education programs, uh a number of support groups. We do a lot of mental health support groups as well across the across the West Midlands. But then there's the infrastructure support, so that's where we empower other organisations to better support their area. So, for example, last year we supported 18 boxing clubs across the country to run one of our Belief programs, which is where it's a box and mental health support programme. Um, we've just trained a number of different sports clubs across Shropshire so they can be more trauma-informed, so they can start a referral pathway to reach the right young people at the right time and so they can deliver sport for change. So, although we're directly working with 600, the real impact has come from the organisations that have the right values, but maybe don't know how to actually show that support. Actually, we can support with that next step, and then obviously the influence as well. That's what we want to really try and do.

SPEAKER_04 37:04

So you're mentoring them as well. I love that, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:07

You're educating them and that's spreading that vision.

SPEAKER_04 37:11

Ethos and vision, hi. You've worked with uh 1,150 kids last year, I think you'd said. You've got different memberships, as you said, you've got different threads going on. Um, you get funding from different um organizations and systems, as it were. Do you feel it's it's gonna take time, it's gonna take patience, isn't it? About that drip drip that we like to use and foster, and you know eventually, hopefully, that the change will happen in the sense of you you are making an impact, there's no doubt about it. And I think it's great to see that the Shropshire local authority see it. There's other organizations that you work with, Start Tech. Do you want to tell us just how they've supported you and and your company?

SPEAKER_02 37:50

Yeah, we're really fortunate there. There is the a number of different sectors that are supporting us. Yeah. They kind of were working alongside. So Start Tech and ACO and DET. So these are all commercial organizations that you wouldn't think like an IT company. How are they going to be able to support young people? Yeah. And actually, when we dig down to it, Start Tech have some brilliant, brilliant values where they actually want, you know, they might not be able to financially give too much, but they've given us all IT support to be able to support because they've came in, they've met some young people, they've seen the work we're doing. They're like, I want to give back. How do I do it? The MD there is actually sitting in front of our trustees. Um, they actually really see the work we're doing. Yeah. ACO as well, you know, they they make fire alarms for houses. How can they support young people? Actually, they do a lot of work around CSR and actually how can they that they believe Neil, who's ahead there, actually believes that every young person should be supported and believes that every person can make a difference. And you see the work we're doing, and he supports us very well, not just financially, but in terms of mentoring me around developing business as well.

SPEAKER_01 38:50

I love that it's like a community coming together and everything putting their input what what they can, whether it be financially, whether it can be support. You know, I love how you're getting the word out there, Joe. And I think that you going to other countries and speaking to other people, sharing, we can also learn a lot from them as well. You know, we we used to be a society where could we we had strong communities, we don't now, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_04 39:15

No, and I think that's the cafe and evangelistic.

SPEAKER_01 39:17

Yeah, and I think we need to now appreciate the yeah, still say it again, it takes a village to raise a child, and it does because there's so many influential people in that child's life. You've been one of them, Joan, I think that what we're doing is fantastic. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 39:33

We so we're so lucky we've got such a such a good team of people with the right values who really want to do more to say.

SPEAKER_04 39:39

Well, thank you for t for that today. We really, really enjoyed having you coming on, and we just wish you all the best with all your endeavours and all the work that you do for the children. It's it's not gone unnoticed. And we will continue as an organization, families first to keep rooting for you and passing on all the good work that you do to all the different partners that we work with as well. So, thank you very much. And onwards and upwards for this year. Thank you, Joe.