Siobhan Cassidy and the Boat Race - Episode 6

In this episode, Christine and Pete chat with Siobhan Cassidy, the Chair of the Boat Race Company.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:14

Hello everyone, welcome to episode six, and also the first episode of Beyond the Oars, World Rowing's brand new podcast. It's the first episode of the 2026 season for us. Very, very excited to bring you what's going to be an exciting season of rowing due to kickoff. My name's Peter Hamlan. I've been a World Rowing commentator for coming up to well more than 10 years now, about 13 or 14 years. Delighted to be co-hosting this Beyond the Oars episode and the World Rowan podcast with Christine Cavallo.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

Hi, Pete. I'm not, I guess, an official world rowing commentator, but they keep asking me to comment on stuff. So that's how I tripped and fell and ended up here. But it's um it's such such a blast and such an honor to talk to our guests. Um we're we're really excited for this season. Um kicking off strong, and we'll we'll get to that in just a moment on who our guest is today. Um, but I want to start by talking about the records that have uh kind of crumbled across the rowing world earlier this season throughout this winter. Uh, have you been following these at all?

SPEAKER_02 1:28

Absolutely amazing. It's so cool watching one tumble right after the next. Do you know the last time I felt like this was funny enough, during COVID and lockdown, and everybody had taken their ergos home. And I still so vividly remember, I think it was Tom George and Mo Speehe just breaking the British record, like trading places with each other on their ergos. Tom George did it in his parents' garage on his own with no support from anybody. Um, and it's just, yeah, it reminds me of those days.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

I've always thought, and I think this is something in the US collegiate system, because you're recruited on your erg scores for most of those opportunities. I've always felt that it was a different kind of athlete who thrived in a very different kind of environment during COVID. So whatever, whatever screws are normally loose in the elite rowing world to be able to do a repetitive motion for 30 hours a week, the people who then go on to thrive in their basement on a rowing machine, like some of the photos on these ergs, some people are, you know, in a team setting, people cheering behind them. Others look like they were completely by themselves going rogue on this piece. Um, so it is it's interesting what kind of environments people tap into. Um, but quickly going through on February 16th, we saw Logan Ulrich break the 1K world record. It was a 238.1 um or a 119.0 split, uh, which is just, I've never seen that split in my life personally. I'm trying, but there's I think I'm gonna rip a disc out of my back before I hit that number, unfortunately. Um but then less than 10 days later, Andrea Panitza, who we ran into at the World Rowing Awards just a couple months ago, uh, he broke that record with what looks to be the same exact split, but the odds were in his favor and it went 238.0. So that's shaving 0.1 off of that record, which again is just nuts to think about for a full 1K. Uh then we had Georgie Rowe uh drop a 5k world record with a 1649.4, which is 340 watts, sustained for over 50 over 16 minutes, almost 17 minutes, just also insane, insane feat of athleticism. Um, and then finally we had Ollie Zeidler on February 17th drop the first ever sub-535 2K. No, no person has gone below 535. He dropped a 534.7, a 123.6 split, which is again just mind-blown on these times and this season. Um, and we thought it was all done until Simone Van Dorp decided he was gonna get off the RP3 and test drive a concept two again, and he went 533.4. So a 123.3 over a full second faster off of the world record time. Um just just crazy, crazy speeds.

SPEAKER_02 4:43

It just makes you think. When are we going sub-530? When the first person to go sub-535 happened just last month, and then we've gone sub-534 uh, you know, in a matter of a couple of weeks later. When's it coming? 530. Somebody's gonna start to take bets on which year it's gonna happen. And is it a 2026 thing or is it a next two years thing? Because I don't think it's gonna be much longer than that.

SPEAKER_01 5:10

I mean, I've I've seen some pretty aggressive predictions come out in that same vein of, you know, what's coming next, when are these falling? When are we seeing 120s? Or excuse me, when are we seeing 520s? When are we seeing 510? Uh it's at what point are we just breaking the rowing machine? Like, or what are what are the stroke ratings that we're doing this at? It's it is crazy to me, I guess, the training science that will have to go into breaking it. Because I think anything is possible, but there will have to be such innovations in how we train, I feel. I don't think we get to the 5'10s doing what we've been doing or the 520s doing what we've been doing. But whoever decides to go into a lab and figure this sport science out, I feel sorry for the athletes who are test driving that training plan. But it's mad, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 6:02

Um it then begs the question at what point do you start to change the dynamics or measurements of the and gearing in the boat to accept these greater strengths to translate into more boat speed? That that whole rigging science to turning that sheer horsepower into boat speed, I find absolutely fascinating. And it's something we've been talking about, isn't it? The whole equipment concept and boats. And maybe one day we'll get a couple of boat makers on here and uh they can tell us about how they're constructed. I know I've enjoyed my chats with boatmakers about the science of where they put slightly harder fiber, carbon fiber to strengthen certain places, and the whole hull shape being right for certain certain power curves that you see slightly different between male and female athletes. Um it's a fascinating topic that, and and I think that plays really neatly into as we see these erg scores just getting faster, the strength dynamics changing, and the influence that that has on how you translate that into boat speed. Um, that's the key question.

SPEAKER_01 7:04

Yeah, I think I don't know how many coaches are going to be willing to share their rigging secrets, the true secrets that they have for athletes like this, but maybe the boat manufacturers who are, you know, being tasked with the individual specs can give us some insights, kind of in aggregate on how this is being tackled.

SPEAKER_02 7:25

Well, I tell you what, the the the next bit of news that I wanted to share with everybody was about the World Rowing Awards and the World Rowing Coach of the Year. Um, maybe that's the sort of person we should be talking to to get their insights into how they plan to harness that increase in horsepower in our in the general athlete population to to continue to produce the top athletes, you know, certainly leading up to LA 28 and that sort of thing. But um you and I were super privileged to go out to Lausanne in January to co-host the World Ring Awards for 2025, which were to which took place at the Olympic Museum in Lausanne. Um and I thought it'd be worth us just quickly sharing with everybody who won each of the awards because it's great recognition for not only some amazing performances, but the those behind the scenes as well who make the stuff we see on water actually possible. Um so mentioning that world ranked coach of the year for 2025 that went to the Netherlands Diedrich Simon. What a lovely bloke as well. Really nice chatting to him at the event. And uh, you know, he's done some amazing things. He represented the Netherlands at five consecutive games um as an athlete, and uh he's one of the most respected figures in international rowing. So huge congratulations to him, and I know that loads of the Dutch crews that um saw him get that award were were chuffed to bits. Um World Roamed Paracrew of the Year. This went to a mate of mine, um, very good mate of mine from Great Britain, the PR1 men single scolar Benjamin Pritchard, the triathlete turned rower, the exact opposite direction that I've been going in, because I certainly am not the supercharged petrol engine I once was to be a rower anymore. I'm definitely a long-distance diesel engine of a sort of triathlon, more than more than rowing these days. But um delighted to see Benjamin take that um for 2025. He's an amazing athlete and uh been doing so well in his in his single. Um the World Ring Men's Crew of the Year was the Italian men's quad of Giacomo Gentili, Luca Cimento, Luca Rambaldi, and Andrea Penizza. Andrea, who you just mentioned a minute ago, Christine, taking that record. Um they had one of the most outstanding performances of the season, um, dominating the world title at the Shanghai World Champs. So uh an impressive performance from the Italian bunch. The women's crew of the year when uh we're back with the Netherlands for this one. It was the Women's Eight. Um, first ever World Championship title for them in the Women's Eight um in Shanghai last year. Um, pretty breakthrough moment for them, and uh delighted to see them all get recognized in that.

SPEAKER_01 10:13

They also arrived at the buzzer, they were mid-selection in their own team's trial. We had a contingency plan at the awards if they were to miss their flight and miss the event. But literally, as we're playing the opening music for the award ceremony, these eight women come walking in. One wasn't able to make it, but um they walked in towering over everyone, looking phenomenal. I have no idea when they had time to change and get ready, but um yeah, they they at the buzzer were able to join and celebrate in person.

SPEAKER_02 10:49

That was it, wasn't it? We were told they literally finished training, went straight to the airport to catch a last-minute flight to get over to um to fly to Geneva. And their their flight, I think, was landing half an hour before the awards were due to start. So they were landing into Geneva, and then they'd have to drive over to Lausanne. Um, and suddenly it's as though they didn't need any prep time. Just suddenly, you know, nine women in ball gowns walked out of a taxi straight from training in another country. Um how they managed that.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

No, I know. That being said, I missed them afterward. I didn't speak to any of them because I think they were probably all so fried by the end of that day, they might have gone to bed at a reasonable hour. So in the reception afterward, I didn't get to see any of them. But uh yeah, that was very commendable.

SPEAKER_02 11:42

So the next award then was the Thomas Keller Medal. So this is um essentially rowing's most prestigious medal to to possibly win. One award each year, and um it goes it speaks to the values and sort of contribution to the sport that somebody somebody gives. And uh this this year, for 2025, um Andre Sinek for Chechia, um, hugely influential person. He is somebody through a for a period of about a decade, was one of a series of gladiatorial combat battles on the men's single skull field, with um all sort of culminating in Rachice, where he had this 500 meter race with um some of the greats from his era to announce his retirement. So great to see him win that award. And then the Distinguished Services to International Rowing Award, very pleased to see this. Uh Richard Stadniuk from Poland, he was the chair of the European Rowing Board for many years. Um and yeah, delighted to see him win that. He I think he started his journey rowing for Poland in 1975, and then elected vice president of the Polish Federation in 1992, and then in 2007 onto the European Rowing Championships and the and the European Rowing Board. There's just about no part of world rowing that Richard has not been part of. Uh the rowing programme of the year award went to the Armour Army Rowing Node um in Pune, India. So um great to see them uh developing the rowing program generally in India, but clearly the army guys they've got the the right sort of attitude to to get in a boat and show that determination. And uh yeah, congratulations to them for that one. Um and then the final one was the artistic contribution to rowing, which was run won by Rima Karolene for Lithuania. Um, and she's the mother-in-law of the 2016 Rio Olympic bronze medalist Donata Karolene. So it was nice chatting to her afterwards, but uh she's uh she's always been involved in rowing and they absolutely love it in their family. It's I think it's the whereas in in some parts of the world, I think in America, where everybody sits down for Sunday football and everybody supports their their main NFL team. It's sort of the equivalent, I think, in the Caroliene family, the uh their love of rowing. So yeah, great stuff. Uh that was the World Rowing Awards. We thoroughly enjoyed being there. 2026 edition will be coming up soon. But what's next on the news then, Christine?

SPEAKER_01 14:20

Uh also recently wrapped the 2026 World Virtual Indoor Championships uh presented by Concept 2 wrapped at the end of last month, end of February, with quite a few world records in various age groups uh and over various distances. This was the first time that world rowing had a one-minute, a 1,000-meter and a 5,000 meter distance. So usually those are not globally competed on. Uh, but this was the first time that that platform was given to those events with World Rowing and the World Rowing Virtual Indoors. So really cool to see people going after it. I had a few teammates uh who said, why not? I'll set a one minute into my training plan. Um, so very cool to follow along all the posts going on for for those competitions.

SPEAKER_02 15:11

Yeah, amazing stuff. Look forward to to following that. And uh the I guess the next thing that we're thinking, well, the indoors are gonna hot up next through this year, just looking at the records that we've been talking about earlier as well. But looking forward to the next couple of years. Um, for those that aren't aware, the qualification system for the LA 2028 Games is now available. We won't go through that in depth now, but pop along to the worldrewing.com website and you can search out that qualification system to understand what it means for you and your nation. And I think that segues quite nicely, Christine, on to.

SPEAKER_01 15:50

Yeah, I mean, there are a few people training for LA 2028 who have also taken a quick side quest, uh, decided to get a higher education degree at either Oxford or Cambridge. Uh, and in probably less around a week's time from when you're listening to this episode, they'll they'll be competing on the Thames, uh lining up against dark blue versus light blue. Uh, the Oxford-Cambridge boat race in its 197th year. Is that right? 197 years of those two schools going after it. Um getting ready to getting ready to go down the Thames uh on April 4th. And we had the pleasure of speaking to the president of the boat race company, Siobhan Cassidy, uh, who is kind of the engine behind the scenes to making this race happen year over year.

SPEAKER_02 16:56

Yeah, Siobhan's amazing. I mean, I've known Siobhan for for 20 years, I think, or 19, 20 years. Um, when she and I first met, when I started commentating at National Schools Regatta, but she's a Cambridge blue representing Cambridge. She's been involved in National Schools Regatta for 20 years on the committee. Um she's been part of the um CUBC, the Cambridge University Women's Boat Club. And uh it was nice to have her on, obviously, because you're a proud Oxford women's boat club. Um, so there's me stuck between the two different shades of blue. But it was such an amazing conversation, and um, you know, real privilege to have Siobhan on just in the few days before the boat race actually takes place on the tideway on the 4th of April. Um, lots to look forward to in our conversation, but just so that everybody's aware of the logistics for the big day, 4th of April um is coming up. There's a lot going on on the tideway. We've got the coin tossers, they'll be taking place women's coin toss at quarter past 12, and then the men's coin toss at 12.50. And then we'll actually start the the coverage will start um on channel four. That's where you watch it if you're in the UK. Um, but you can also find it, I believe, on YouTube 1.30 UK time, and then the women's boat race starts at 2.21 local time here, and then the men's boat race at 3.21 an hour later. And in between those two races, we'll have the women's reserve race at 2.36 and the men's reserve race at 2.51. So yeah, loads of to look forward to in that schedule. But um I thoroughly enjoyed our chat with Siobhan. You and I at the beginning of this year said we've got to get Siobhorn on and talk about the boat race that's coming up. Um I suppose a particular highlight for me was chatting about all of the fixtures and how that contributes as a amazing build-up to race day itself. And you know, it is this tried and tested run through all the way from the athletes going back to uni in September time at the start of the academic year, and this sequence of things running through trial eights to the fixtures, and it just shows that runway of activity culminating in on the 4th of April. Um, just gets the hairs on the back of my neck going with excitement.

SPEAKER_01 19:19

Yeah, there's so much that goes into this. I'm gonna call it a ritual, uh, that the coaches know very well. Athletes who've done the boat race before know quite well. Uh, you you hear about people say, oh, this is your first Olympics. Like you don't even know what you're doing yet. And, you know, I've always kind of been mind-blown from that perspective of athletes saying, Oh, it takes multiple Olympics, you have to be a veteran in knowing how the Olympics Games works to, you know, get the full value out of it. And I think the boat race is something similar where you have 400,000 people on the shores and you have to sit with your blade not flat on the water, but inverted, because the speed of the water rushing under your boat is so great that if you sat squared and buried at the start, you would get ripped off of the steak boat. So there's all these little things that you have to work out. And if you have a false start or there's any breakage, or you know, you do in fact get pulled off the steak boat, there's a very good chance they're not gonna show any part of your race because the timetables that you just listed, Pete, are so strict that if you're off by a minute or two, it destroys the whole thing. Like they they're gonna have to move on to the next thing. You're not gonna get coverage, you're not gonna be filmed, you're not gonna have chase boats because they won't be able to get back to the start in time. And it's so dialed into the tide. And Shabon comments on this the actual boat race isn't a set date because it matters based on the moon, how extreme the tide will be. Cause as that river is flowing out, you are actually rowing upstream from that flow, but the tide is so strong that it overpowers the current of the river. So you're going with the tide, but against the current. And you're still, you know, you're doing, I don't even, I can't even remember the splits. I remember hearing a lot of 136s in a women's eight for a much longer race than you should be able to hold 136s for. Um, so there's just so many elements to this. We tried to break it down in our conversation for people who haven't done the boat race before to, you know, hopefully not get too jargony and and hopefully be um more clearly communicated all that goes behind the scenes to make this race happen every year for nearly 200 years.

SPEAKER_02 21:48

It's an amazing experience, the boat race. I can't wait. It's coming up. Um, so why don't we jump into our chat with Shaborn?

unknown 21:57

Great.

SPEAKER_02 21:57

Well, Siobhon, thanks so much for joining us. This is a real sort of personal privilege for me a little bit, partly because um it's been a very Oxford heavy podcast to date, with Christine obviously being from a from an Oxford background, so it's nice to have you here to balance out the blues a little bit. Um but also because you were there when I first ever got into rowing and sort of support rowing and commentating when we first met at National School's Regatta nearly 20 years ago, such a long time ago. So it's uh it's been amazing sort of following your involvement in the sport for all the way from I guess when you're a rower through the you're the activities that you do behind the scenes and then now as um running the show for the for the boat race company. But I wondered if we could start off with maybe in your own words, um what your what your relationship to rowing's been over the years.

SPEAKER_00 22:51

Well, I think I've just been so lucky to have found a sport that um has brought me so much. Uh and it was from watching the boat race on the TV in the 1970s, and you know, when you won't remember, but TVs were as deep as they are were wide actually, and the footage was a bit grainy, but actually it was the drama of this race between two crews, the water was incredibly rough, and I'd never seen anything like it before, and I didn't know where you could row. I didn't live near a river or a lake where there was that going on, and so I just thought you had to go to Oxford, Cambridge to do that race. So I think you know, part from probably wanting to be a jockey in the Grand National, and when I got a bit too big, I realised that probably wasn't for me. The uh the boat race was really captivating. I found the whole thing amazing, and actually at the time, Christine, Oxford were winning a lot, so it seems kind of odd in some ways that I thought, well, I'm gonna go to Cambridge and I you know I want to win that. I want to win that thing that I'm watching. And so I just thought I had to go to university and in Cambridge. I told my parents I was going to go to university there. They I think they thought, you know, I was sort of academically very ambitious. Um, I didn't obviously let on that it was because of the sport, and then when I got a bit older at 13, 14, we went to I was changing schools and we had a look around a school in Bedford, and I'd never I didn't know you could write school, and there was a picture of a girls' crew on the wall on this wall, and I looked at I thought, right, this is it, this is where I'm going. So came out and said to my parents, I've you know, this is the school for me, and they and uh it's because the science labs were so brilliant. So I started school, 14 in Bedford, and started rowing there on the River Ouse, and yeah, I fell in love with every aspect of it. Um, loved the competing, loved the variety of training, uh, loved the camaraderie, uh, loved trying to perfect something with other people, uh, and that just never left me really. So after school, uh I had a gap here, rode for the local rowing club, um, and then went to university in London initially, and uh rode for University London, did under 23 student games, and then came up to Cambridge to do a PGC and rode for Cambridge, um, which was just a fantastic year. Yeah, and then since then I was hoping to carry on rowing actually, and just a pre-funding, so I was going to teach part-time. I'd heard that Martin Cross, that's what he did. He was a teacher and he worked part-time and he balanced that with his rowing, so I thought, well, that that's that's what I'll do. Um, you know, I'd had great teachers at school and actually fantastic rowing coaches, and I think it was those people who really influenced me and helped shape my life that you know inspired me as well to become a teacher. So this was all good news, and I could coach rowing at the same time. Uh, so that was my A plan, which was a really good plan. I think it was a really you know, I had it all well mapped out, um, and then sort of life changed a little bit. Uh, you know, Adrian, you know, my husband, he had an accident on his stagnite, so sort of rowing, doing as an activity then changed and um sort of went into behind-the-scenes stuff, which has been really great. So been involved with University of London and Cambridge, uh, national schools. Yeah, love it. It's really great watching other people enjoy a sport that I got so much out of. And I and I think you know, people can all relate to the fact that there's so many volunteers who have sort of made it possible for me to uh enjoy my rowing that actually it's really lovely to put something back into the sport.

SPEAKER_01 26:21

Yeah, I mean, I have so many questions spinning off of everything that you just said. Um firstly, I I want to kind of highlight since you were a kid the stories being told and amplified by the boat race are what inspired so much of what you've gone and done since then in the sport, but that's obviously shaped who you are as a person and everything you've done. So you're now in the engine behind that storytelling. And I'm there's so much marketing and media storytelling that's going on for the athletes and the crews that go up, but I think we have an opportunity to talk to you about how the sausage is made, perhaps on like the actual inner workings of the boat race. Um yeah, I I guess my first question is on that storytelling piece, with your own experience having this you know inspired your own career and where you are today. How do you work with the marketing partners and the sponsors to amplify who these people are and kind of humanize the nine people in each of those boats?

SPEAKER_00 27:30

Yeah, I think I think that's really it's really important, isn't it? You know, um getting under the skin of it, I think, you know, particularly for the boat race, I think we feel a real privilege, actually, it's a hugely privileged position to have that global interest. So I think we feel a responsibility um not just to the boat race and the athletes taking part, and of course we do. We want people to get to know them, get to understand who they are. Um, some of the quick and easy views that people might have about the boat race. Oh, these are you know, just you know, any students or some people don't even know that you have to be studying at Oxford and Cambridge to be in the cruise, you know, beyond rowing. So this sport reach this event reaches beyond the sport, and we really feel um a responsibility for rowing itself to actually tell that story more deeply so that people really get to understand rowing as a whole, you know, what you can do with it and what it does for you that's beyond the boat race as well to a certain extent. And and I think one of the things you see is, you know, well, you're one of them, Christine, but one of the great privileges I think about being involved with any of these events with young people is that you get to know the people involved, and they are fantastic young people who are interesting, funny, entertaining, um, you know, incredibly hardworking and dedicated. I mean, they're all studying full-time courses, as you know. So that's been really important to us. So, Roe 360, Ben Tufnell and Tom Ransley have been a huge part of the last since 2020, 2021 rather. Um, we've been they've been working with us to sort of we've tried to have a fresh approach with the photography, the imagery, the stills as well, just to give a uh maybe a little bit more of a a sort of friendly approach to who the people are in the boat race, an accessible approach for people who maybe aren't into rowing. You know, rowers will really know their details, won't they? And um, working with with them, we've been able to develop you know content as well in the the programme, the the magazine that we create once a year. Again, sort of giving insights behind the scenes through turning the tide so that people understand that it isn't just one day that's dropped out, it's been you know a six-month campaign that the students are rowing really early in the morning and then they're training after classes, and then there's bits of lunchtime as well, and the fact that you have to learn to row on the tideway because it's a very different place to anywhere else. So, how often they come down, the fixtures. So, what are fixtures? If you're not a rower, you wouldn't necessarily know what a fixture is and why they're so important. I also think those weekends are incredible, actually. I mean, you remember that, Christine. That you know, clubs from elsewhere will come down and race uh the Oxford and Cambridge crews, and of course, they're trying to beat them, and it's great to be able to say, Well, we're much better than they are. Um, but actually having the opportunity to also showcase those other students is also really good, or those other rowers from other clubs, and so that again is something we sort of try to give a bit of an insight into is what the fixtures are, how um why are they important. Um, those points during the season as well, tri late uh in December that you're a member is a huge day, and it's a really tough day, isn't it? To sit out there, race the other half of your team, and be absolutely committed 100% to winning. Uh is is really when you explain that to people beyond that's not a friendly match, no, that's not a training piece. That's a really intense piece of racing going on there. Yeah, go on.

SPEAKER_02 30:55

For those that aren't familiar with it, Siobon, what is that sort of sequence of things that takes us all the way up to race day? I guess it does it all start with the captain's challenge, is that the first thing?

SPEAKER_00 31:05

Yeah, so I get well, I guess we're certainly saying the students come back in September, so for pre-season training. Uh and so it means some of them won't have had a long summer break, some of them arrive a little bit late because they're doing various things, but it sort of starts back in September. Then to your point, the very traditional and very important element at the start of the season is the president's challenge, where the losing the president from the losing team from last year will challenge the president from the winning team. And that is a really important marker in the sort of journey for the students. It's also really important to engage with our partners. Uh you know, they get to be part of that journey, not just turning up at the end, it's actually they're part of it. They get to see the teams develop, they get to know the coaches, they get to know more deeply around the progress. Then we have TriLates, which is in December, so at the end of term. Uh, and the timing of these on-water events, it a lot of people don't realise who you know, people don't know the tide way well, is that it is tidal. Uh so the timing of these races is based on the tide, and the women's crew race an hour before the top uh two hours before the top of the tide, and the men race one hour before the top of the tide. And of course, we want to mimic those situations whenever they're racing uh in the lead up to the event. So December triates, clubs can go on training camps, uh, and then they'll come back and uh have fixtures between sort of February and March. Then we have the crew announcement which we've just had at Somerset House and the big sort of unveiling of the crews, and then we'll have boat race day in March, April time. And of course, again, the date of that event is never fixed, it's not a fixed date in a calendar which has its challenges for making sure people remember it and they come and turn up. If you're not a row, you might not be following these things. You know, being sort of led by the moon is a real challenge, isn't it? You've got the tide times, then you've got term times. So when Cambridge finishes at a different time to Oxford, and then you need to have a week after the end of term of the last finishing club, and then you've got other sports prefixtures which we can't clash with. And then, of course, with our new broadcaster channel 4, we need to work with their schedule because actually filming the boat race is it it is one of the largest outside broadcasts. So, unlike when you're filming football inside a stadium, you know, I'm I'm sort of underplaying it, but it's a plug-and-play. You plug into a system that's already built and it's already contained. There's cabling and radio frequency cameras, it's you know four and a quarter miles, there's no ability to plug in a set and have cameras already fixed. So you've got helicopters, drones, um, bankside cameras, cameras on boat, you know, it's a real technical challenge actually. Um, and of course, that you know, the the course is three times longer than an Olympic course. So, you know, there are huge challenges with that, with infrastructure around it. So the teams of people who are responsible for delivering that coverage are just incredible. So it's a real technical challenge in that alone.

SPEAKER_01 34:07

Yeah, I remember getting to the mile marker at a 37 and thinking, I'm not even close to halfway. Like it is, it is such a different physiological feat of a rowing race compared to anything else I had done. And yeah, it's it's such a privilege to have gone and done on either side, like just to participate in that competition because you I had to get in to Oxford, right? Like I and it's kind of the general guidance when you're applying to either school, at least what I was told is you don't really want to mention rowing because no one wants someone who's showing up to do the boat race. So you keep your rowing perspectives quite hushed in your application. When anywhere else I've gone, that's been like the rewarded element of my background that's shown that I've been able to work hard and I had to apply without that there because then they would kind of just say, Oh, like you're you're not here to study, you're here to do the school. But I think that's like quite a fallacy of everyone who's who's in it. Um but I'm also curious how you go from bleeding light blue to working at this central organization, the boat race company, where you are the neutral party between the two schools and you're you're juggling those stakeholders. What's the balance like within the boat race company? Are there is it just managing Oxford and Cambridge or is it managing all the sponsors and the media partners? Like, what are the stakeholders that you're working with internally to stand up a closure of the Thames and helicopters overhead and the Putany embankment completely shut down and 400,000 people on shore? Who who are you spending most of your time working with in this?

SPEAKER_00 35:57

Yeah, I mean I have to be honest, yeah, yeah, all of the above, but but but it's sort of divided up. So I think one of um so the boat race company as a board actually, it's a uh it's not really a non-exec board, so everyone on the board actually lends a hand in some way or other. It's a very small team. We have a very small executive team who um do the heavy lifting for sure, um, led by Chris Price, who's our event director. But the board is actually made up of uh representatives from both clubs, so there's two from Oxford, two from Cambridge. We have two Oxford and Cambridge Rowing Foundation trustees who sit on the board, and then we have some independent directors and a couple of advisors. So when you sort of look at the list, it's sort of 13 people, but everyone there on that is actually tasked with helping out in some way. Of course, there are sort of it's it's we've broken it up into um segments of the sort of organising the event and the events in season, looking after our partners, uh, and then how we look after our marketing and communications, and then how we um you know sort of look after the stability and the long-term security of business itself. Uh, of course, the clubs are more than stakeholders, they're part of it, you know, that we it doesn't happen without them. We're sort of organising it on their behalf with very much a team approach as to how we do that, and the clubs have got their own committees and boards who look after the runnings of the clubs. But this uh small again, small staff team, we've got coaches and support staff who are making that all happen. So, you know, we definitely don't want to interfere with what they're doing, they do a great job, but we sort of link in very closely. Our team links in very closely, probably every couple of weeks with meetings to check in. Uh, and it's you know, we're over four boroughs, so the river winds its way through West London. So we're looking at four boroughs, the Port of London Authority. Christine is exactly who we go to over the river closures and how we operate on the river, the safety. We have to go to a number of different um parties within that. We have stakeholder meetings and organising meetings for all the safety and the uh sort of running an event with all the various agencies, the Metropolitan Police, Ambulance Service. Um you know, it's it's a huge number of people who make it all happen, and it's a real privilege to be in a room with people who understand that you know there's this event that's free to attend, open to anyone who wants to come and watch it. Um, and all of that takes some managing. So we have staff who look after sort of public fan areas where we're sort of crowd management is important to make sure we run a safe event, and that's a real responsibility in central London. Um, we work with Fulham Pier that are on now that huge majestic um sign on the course there. That you know, again, they've been incredibly helpful with opening that up that's part of their build, and so we have some space there for spectators to watch, Bishop's Park to watch the race. Yeah, sorry Peter.

SPEAKER_02 38:59

No, no, I was just gonna say, and is this all getting harder or easier? Because I just wonder with with a tried and tested format that you've got with the boat race, um, I guess some people would think it's just oh, we dust off the instruction manual from last year and just rinse and repeat. But I can also imagine that health and safety laws are getting harder and things like that, and just hurdles are getting higher for you to jump. What's that like over the dynamic of the last few years that you've been running it? And is that is that getting increasingly difficult? Do you find that some of those rules impact on the ability for you to put on the race in the way that you and the two universities want it run?

SPEAKER_00 39:38

Yeah, well, I think that the first thing is I think there's things that sort of make it um it's important we run a safe race. And actually, the rowing bit is the easiest piece because the river's closed. I mean, it's the best time to be on the tideway, there's there's only there's a really limited number of people on the it's closed. So, in some ways, the rowing bit is the easiest bit, although I have yeah, that wouldn't be from the umpire's point of view, I have to say. So, but um the the rowing is is a really simple piece, it's all that that happens around it for sure. I mean, last year we had a great partnership with line bike, you know. We want one of the things we um really pleased about is that most people come to the boat race on public transport. Fantastic, and using line bikes, but so many people use the line bikes that actually where they got left was a bit of an issue. Now, you know, it's one of those things we learned from, but to your point, um I think maybe that's the nature of rowers, isn't it? I don't know whether that is, but actually, when you've done something and it's gone well, and that is a priority to run a safe event and to make sure the racing, the umpires do a great job of making sure the rowing is safe and fair, there's a review process, and of course, you know, well, how we've done this now, so how can we do it a little bit better next year? And that's around um how do we make the spectator experiences look better? How can we welcome more people who don't know about rowing to get them down to the river to West London to come and watch it? To your point, how can we communicate better with people to you know tell them what the boat race is all about? How can we um look at all our content we're producing that will give them a new look and a fresh approach to race? How can we make sure we've thought about all the elements of the of the you know the people who live in the local area? It you know it brings a huge amount of benefit to the local communities between 13 and 15 million pounds over that day. But actually, we road closures we've got in, so you know how do we tweak those a little bit so that actually it's easier for our community, you know, communities who live there every day to get around. What can we do? We've sort of expanded it, so now it's a two-day event to a certain extent. You've got the public day which on the TV and the broadcast on this on the boat race day, but the day before we had now have a youth boat race, which is local young people taking part. So we've got probably 80 young people who'll be racing this year. That will happen, which is great, really exciting. We've got the lightweight boat race that day as well, and also the veterans boat race. Um, and I bet you can guess which one is the most hotly contested uh on and off the water. Uh, the vet sort of lead the way in the level of competitive spirit, it has to be said. Um, but you know, all those things sort of make for two days a really great engagement with the local community, and actually on boat race day as well, we even have a river festival, and that again is some great people who are involved with uh traditional rowing uh in in London, you know, up and down the the River Thames, and they will come and row the course. So there are lots of different elements over the weekend that we're putting together. Um, some of that, you know, clearly on behalf of the clubs and making sure that we're delivering what they need for the students. And I think that is one of the things for me that you know, I know when I did my boat race, people organised it so that I could, you know, that people put the time in. Um and I know that every single person who's involved with organising this one, although we have got lots of things to balance and and factors to consider, we're constantly thinking about the students who are taking part to make sure that the experience for them gives them the best opportunity to race in the best possible way, that they are, you know, that this their stories, their journey, that we can try and communicate that as best possible, that we look after them because these are young people, they're most of them will go on to do professional lives that are not related to sport, and so therefore, how can we support them when they have all the media requests in the week, which is a real privilege to have, as you will remember, lots of media requests coming in, and we're keen to have those, but how do we balance those carefully so that because some of these students have only some of them have only learned to row very recently, and most will never have raced at an event with quite so much pressure from public as spectators. Um, so we sort of really work. But with the clubs coasted on that as well, which is really important.

SPEAKER_01 44:03

Yeah, it was a wicked blend where I we had Olympians on our team. I was 26 or 27, had been on multiple senior national teams, and then there were 18-year-olds who had learned to row at their college and had switched in and were trialing for the the blues boat, or the the blues is what you would call the varsity team, let's say. Um, and then for people who aren't familiar with the system, Oxford and Cambridge both generally have a club for every one of the colleges within their schools, within the university, I should say. Uh in at Oxford, there are 39, 36 or 39, gosh. Um, pretty sure it's 39 uh entities that might have their own respective club. So there's this great lower level entry point. But what I like, I didn't want to ruin the magic for anyone, but I felt like kind of like an old like crotchety, like you have no idea how good you have it. Like, look at how crazy, like, people are caring about the sport, people are paying attention. Like, it's just normal to these 18-year-olds that the highest level of their sport is right at their fingertips to compete at this at this level with this level of attention, this level of marketing, to have it so known by name only throughout the UK that this is what you've gone on to do. That it's it's truly is surreal. Um, and one thing I wasn't familiar with when I showed up was in the US we call them duels, but fixtures are essentially scrimmages leading up to the boat race. I think both teams generally try to compete against the same club wherever possible. On occasion, only Oxford or Cambridge might go up against a certain club. But the idea is to basically without putting Oxford and Cambridge head to head, it's one of the ways where you could both compare yourselves to let's say Oxford Brooks is a pretty regular attendee in those fixtures, and you'll do two by to the first mile, or two by second half of the course, or three by the middle of the course, and you'll do this side by side, and you'll be able to kind of see the margins, and through that you can people start to make predictions on how the boat race is going to go without those teams actually having met each other on the water. So I think that's if there's anything I'm missing on how those work, Siobhan, please fill it in. But I'm curious as to how you can like let's say there's a club in the US or a university team in the US that's having a stellar season. Sometimes they say, Oh, let's go to Henley, but is there an opportunity for those schools to say, actually, let's get in touch with the boat race company and go scrimmage Cambridge?

SPEAKER_00 46:58

Yeah, I mean, I bet the teams would love that. So I think um you just get straight in touch with Rob Baker or Alan, you know, Mark or Paddy, that they'll be delighted to hear from people who'd like to put themselves into the mix there. You know, the teams are always looking, and that's very much so we don't we will sort of support those, but the clubs actually very much um decide who they're racing, who they're going to pitch against. And to your point, those days are really interesting, aren't they? And that's the whole pressure, I think, of the boat race is you never race, you know, Oxford doesn't race Cambridge at any other point apart from that one day, and probably your experience, Christine, of racing other teams, other national teams, you kind of know roughly how quickly they're going or how they perform or what they do because you've raced them a number of times before you get to that final event. Here, it's this is it, you know, you do you will race each other once, and mostly those crews never really reform or never quite the same again. So that's why I think there's there's that kind of pressure in turning because you don't quite know what you're up against. And to your point, you know, that side by side across that horrific course with the where the Waterby can be doing all sorts of things, is it's difficult to pace yourself, isn't it? You just have to get out there and try and get ahead to a certain extent and then keep going because actually it's the crew that you know in the main that gets ahead um will stay there because it's such a tricky course. So that there are all sorts of pressures with that, actually. But that's what makes it so exciting as well to watch. Uh and um yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:35

I I I I found the last couple of weeks with the fixtures going on, you know, absolutely see your pants, sort of exciting to watch because exactly that you're trying to gauge, okay, if this crew beat Leander, but Leander were sort of behind. Ah, but the training regimes that these crews that aren't doing the boat race are doing, they're not training two or three, they're not training three K pieces, they're training sort of two K pieces at home. Does that influence how they're gonna? It's it's the sort of fun game of trying to read through the sort of impossibility of they've done two or three pieces on on the Thames that uh you know you wouldn't see any other time of year. It's not they're not quite tapered yet for the main race day. But um I gotta say, Oxford women are looking slightly stronger than some people might have been expecting through the last couple of weeks, which might see the tide turn to quote your um behind the scenes awesome um series that uh Tufers and the Road 360 guys make. But like you were saying earlier, Siffon, I think that's just it's it's an amazing behind the scenes view for those that aren't familiar with it, and it it really brings into perspective what goes in to making race day the the heart-wrenching, the heart-wrenches of defeat or the you know sheer you know elation of of pulling it off and getting the victory. Um but those fixtures are I think they also stoke a lot of conversation, shall I say, sort of in other quarters of why don't we make it a knockout tournament and include a load of other clubs? And why is it just these two? Now the history. I mean, I I hadn't I had to reread the numbers, but um 817, 930 years old, the ages of Oxford and Cambridge. I won't say respectively, because I might have got those two the wrong way around, but um, you know, the history by the city.

SPEAKER_00 50:34

But they're ancient institutions, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely amazing.

SPEAKER_02 50:38

And sport being milestones.

SPEAKER_00 50:42

Yeah, and I think you know, to Christine's point, you know, that it is that's what people also don't necessarily get is that the two universities there as academic institutions, so of course they want the students to be there primarily, and that's the focus of the universities and that academic excellence there. And yet these young people will come in, you know, and have um sporting excellence as well. They're really well supported by the teams at both universities. So actually, you've got this incredible blend. I mean, we're really excited, we were sort of touching on that a little bit earlier, weren't we? That you know, 1927 was the year of the first women's boat race, and so in next year we'll be celebrating a hundred years the women's boat race, and then in 2029 it'll be the men's boat race or the event, you know, 200th, um, the bicentenary. And that's really exciting when you think um, you know, that it's been going for that long, and that's what people love about it. You know, it's this traditional event, it sort of closes off the winter season of sport in in the UK. It's that great British sort of start of the summer season of sport, it's between the two universities that are known globally for their academic excellence. And actually, when you go around the well, we've had students who've been out on them. I keep, I mean, I do repeat this, but they'll they'll say this to you. I mean, maybe you've got friends you can repeat similar stories, but people will be out on a one girl was out on a dig in Ethiopia for work for her PhD, and she's there in a bit of rowing kit, and then someone says, Oh, the boat race, and apparently they listen to it every year, you know, and so that's kind of cool, isn't it? You know, that is so cool. And actually, you've got these two universities which are just incredible, and actually, the boat race is that one time where they come together for the public to see. Of course, to your point, there are varsity matches every weekend going on in all sorts of sports, um, which is brilliant, with you know, students earning their blues, whether that's a dark blue or a light blue for representing their university at a sports event. Um, but actually, that's what people around the world often when you say Oxford and Cambridge, what do you know it for? The boat race. Now that's amazing in itself, uh, and yeah, so it's a real privilege to sort of bring all that together actually on the day. Uh, and I think, and we've got the two vice-chancellors awarding the trophies again this year, which is a really lovely connection to what we're all about, is that student athlete.

SPEAKER_02 53:06

Can you see any evolution in it uh going forwards in terms of not necessarily into a knockout tournament where you bring in others, um, but sort of there's there's there's always constant evolutions with the rules like who's eligible, which courses you're on, what's the age limit around undergrad. You know, I can imagine that's a constant discussion, or am I making things up there at the the board meetings you have about what might change?

SPEAKER_00 53:29

No, so again, so in some ways it we kind of like a simple structure, really, is that those so for example, um well the first point is are we gonna ever sort of bring in a you know knockout term? I can't see it happening. I think to a certain extent, you know, the boat race is the boat race because it is Oxford and Cambridge. As much as you know, when I'm wearing my purple, you know, University of London, I know, would love to be part of it, so might you know various others, but um I can't see that happening because then you would lose what it's all about because it is that this is what it is. Um we you know we can't see that sort of evolving it in how we develop it over those two days with that festival of rowing in the morning of the boat race, engaging people with more broadly with the youth boat race, looking at what we can do there for sure, yeah. But keeping the essence of what we are is really important. Um, the rules and who's eligible, that's decided by the club, so we don't get involved in that. So that in a way keeps it simple. So we don't sit around discussing that because the clubs decide that because it's it's their race. So they discuss that and every and then periodically when they'll review it every year, but periodically they'll make tweaks to those rules. So that's entirely sits with them. Um, and so actually, it means that we can sort of focus on running the event and looking after you know the commercial elements of that, broadcast radio, we've got Times Radio coming in this year, which is also really exciting, and it's great again. We were with the BBC for such a long time, such a great partner, but it's also really exciting now to be on channel four who are going to bring fresh energy to it, they're really right behind it. Pete Andrews, who worked on the boat race when he was at the BBC, really enthusiastic, loves rowing, uh, is really looking forward to kind of getting onto the skin of it, is hopefully going to just give a fresh approach for people to you know understand rowing, know what it's all about. Um, so we're really excited about that. Um, so it's a really yeah, it's a new phase now.

SPEAKER_02 55:28

That's really cool because you've also brought on a few main sponsors in recent history that have really sort of um sort of lit up the company and been good to see sort of tweaks and changes to that. Uh, I think Christine, you sort of alluded to this earlier in terms of it. The boat race company is sort of an example to the rest of the rowing world on how to do those relationships and partnerships well. I wonder what what what secrets have you got, Siobhan, on sort of you know, you brought in headline sponsors and you got that that that marketing strategy and relationship strategy, like with Chanel and um I don't know what what are your secrets for having done that so convincingly for the boat race? I mean it's a great product to be able to market in the first place.

SPEAKER_01 56:11

Chanel doesn't Chanel's not a sports brand, but they are now like this this was their foray into the world of athletics, as far as I'm pretty sure that was in the press release for them working with the boat race. So, like who's talking to who and how are these connections being made? It's so fascinating to me.

SPEAKER_00 56:33

Yeah, I mean, I you're very generous in your praise, I'll be honest. Um, we feel you know incredibly fortunate. It's a real privilege to be with a company that has um such a fantastic heritage and actually really likes the event as it is. I think where it came to that was probably communicating our values and actually the values of the boat race and to a certain extent, rowing as well, aligned really well with Chanel, and it's the watches, it's the Chanel J12 boat race. Um, the those sort of elements of synchronicity, timing that we know so well in sport also apply to wonderful, beautiful watch making. Um, and yes, it is, it's their first oriented sports sponsorship or to sponsorship at all in this kind of way, um, which is really exciting. But of course, then Gabrielle Chanel, you say they're not a sports brand, but actually, way back when when she first found out was sort of designing women's sportswear, you know, at a time where women weren't doing so much sports, she was there changing clothes, she was modifying things to make it easier for women to move. A real trailblazer. So for us, particularly coming into the anniversary next year, it couldn't be more perfect partnership. What we found with them is they are generous and thoughtful with their approach to the event. Um, less is more, which I think is unusual in sports branding. Uh, it's a very much uh wanting to learn about the event, to sit behind it, to understand it, to how do we do things, how could they elevate it, how could they sit behind it? So it's a very different sort of approach, and I guess because it's new for them as well, it's sort of taking we're doing it very slowly together. Um, but you're sort of, as you say, sort of small tweaks around the edges, you sort of see the branding change a little bit. Um, so yeah, so we have a we have a great team who work really hard to help present us, and certainly doing our you know audience research a couple of years ago really helps, I think, to feel more comfortable about where our strengths are as an event and and less apologetic, probably, and to realise we do have some strengths um and let's lean into those. But actually, yeah, great team at this end uh working together to make that happen.

SPEAKER_02 58:56

That's amazing. Um I'm really looking forward to it. I can't wait. You you always kindly invite me along to be there at this at the start.

SPEAKER_00 59:04

We're so pleased to have you, it's so fantastic. It couldn't be a rowing event without your Dulcit somewhere in the background for me, certainly. It just wouldn't be the same. So it is great.

SPEAKER_02 59:14

I'll tell you what, I'm always so well looked after by those guys in the Crabtree boat house. I stand up at the top and they keep me well watered and fed and uh get to look out. And it's uh yeah, it's such a fun experience for me, sort of standing there because I've never taken part in the boat race. I didn't go to either Oxford or Cambridge, but um, I suppose you know you did, you raced in the boat race. So just looking back, sort of perhaps to sort of sort of wrap up our chat here, what your what your favourite reflection was sort of as an athlete racing in the boat race, and I bet that helps you, as you sort of organise the event now, think about what matters to these guys because you've got your own personal recollections to to draw from, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 59:57

Yeah, definitely. I mean, I felt so fortunate to be part of that crew and that time in 1995, so it's sort of last century now. I felt so fortunate to be part of a you know wonderful team of people, really. Um, and I remember being, I mean, I was unbelievable, I had never been so nervous before that race actually, again, because it was just the unknown. Um, and I and to be honest, that we were certainly not our coach at the time didn't think we were gonna win and kind of made it kind of fairly clear before we went out, actually. Um, you know, do your best sort of thing. Um, but um, you know, we had amazing coaches on the journey, you know, who who got us to that point, it and it wasn't easy, you know. You're all trying to do you know, classes in school, and and it yeah, I mean, it was just fantastic to be able to kind of give something your best shot with um a crew of people who you know, you've yeah, I mean it was wonderful. So I sort of I think it's you know, it's definitely because of that. Uh sure, I hold on to that all the time thinking about you know, how can we make it better for students, what's the best thing, but also um I remember being so I felt so privileged to be able to represent my university at that particular point, and you know, people who weren't connected with the event came to watch, and um obviously I raced out at Hendy, and I think that's the beauty of the boat race, actually, is that ability to reach beyond rowing and find those young people, and it's not always about you know whether you end up rowing in the boat race or not, but actually you can be involved in rowing more broadly or sports, and actually it's just a great thing to have alongside life, isn't it? The friends you make, the relationships you make, what you get from it that's not just being fit and healthy and strong, there's so many other things, and that's easy to say when you when you're in it or you're doing it, but actually those things you take through life, actually, and things you learn from it, so yeah. I think that's I you know, I'm kind of hoping that there'll be some little girls out there watching it thinking, yeah, I'm I think I'm gonna do that, and you know, maybe they will in 25 years' time, and or maybe they won't, but they'll do something else. But you know, it's a great thing. I think someone I look back at some of the films as well I used to love. I remember we sat down and we watched Chariots of Fire the night before our boat race. You know, it's moments like that of what did you do and how did you prepare? Well, we watched Chariots of Fire because that's such a you know, and look that soundtrack as well. Whenever I hear that, I can I remember feeling how I felt before the boat race, you know, literally sick. You know, so there's sort of things in your life you do, well, it's the smells of certain things, aren't they, that sort of take you right back to that moment. Um, you know, and uh yeah, Charis of Fire seems like a very fitting film to watch before our boat race.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:41

I love that. And you can have that feeling all over again, Siobhorn, when you enter the Vets race.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:48

Yeah, no, those are for a different sort of people to me. I think I'm very comfortable behind my desk. Yeah, I mean, it's amazing, isn't it? I love it. I just, you know, and those crews train hard, they're very well prepared. Um, and that's great.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:02

I have one more question because I think anyone who's listening, as we're like next year, is the the centennial of the women's boat race. I think there's incredible opportunities to tell that story, to catalyze women's sport. It'll be 12 years since they entered the Tideway. And you know, for a race to exist for nearly 200 years, you are choosing where to evolve while maintaining the true core elements of that tradition. And I think the women's boat race on the tideway is one example of that. Um but in in 2029, when we hit that 200-year anniversary of the boat race, um, I say this because 2027, the application windows have closed, so it's hard for anyone to jump in to either of those crews for next year at this point. But for those listening planning ahead to 2029, um are we gonna see the do you have any insight on that 12-year eligibility from undergrad? So so basically 12 years after you start undergrad, uh you have to join Oxford or Cambridge and do the boat race before that 12-year time window. It's essentially an age limit. Puts most people at around age 30 for the boat race. Every year there's rumors that that rule is going away. And this is this is my last year of eligibility slipping through my fingers right now. But in terms of people planning ahead for 2029, applying in 2027 and 2028 to come in. Um, do you have any insight on that rule going away?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:40

Yeah, so the clubs reviewed that this year and they've tweaked it, so that's that's not there anymore. So, yeah, to your point, Christine, you know, if uh people are watching and they want to be and or you're making a big comeback again, or continuing, I should say, um, then yeah, get in touch. The coaches will be delighted to hear from people for sure. Yeah, I mean, I think those those dates for the event are just so exciting. You know, a hundred years of the women's boat race, I mean, it started off as an event that was based on style, and there was no side-by-side racing because that wouldn't have been appropriate at the time. And you look at how that event has evolved over time, and you're absolutely right. In 2015, when the women's boat race moved to the tideway, that was a hugely proud moment. And there are people who'd worked incredibly hard to make that happen with the support of BY and Newton. And actually, I think for the women who were before that, I mean it's been brilliant, hasn't it? Since then, the women's boat race has been on the same course, had the same broadcast coverage, had the same funding as the men, and actually, that's that I think is still something that in sport, not many sports events can say they do or they offer and they really support that. So everything is truly the same and has been since that point. And you think about all those women who went before. Yeah, the women who kept the event going, who and next year will be an opportunity to shine a light on some of those women, those stories that haven't been heard. So actually, people can hear them now. And I think people will still find those very relatable. And I think the women who raced at Henley or raced at Oxford and Cambridge be very proud of what they did because they're part of the evolution of the race as it's come through. Um, and all hats off to the you know the people who were in place at the time to bring the women's boat race to the tideway. 200 years of the event is huge, and actually, we'll be sort of working up towards that with looking at how we can really celebrate 200 years of a sports event and an amateur sports event. And I should always try and use that word in you know Vector Commas because, as you know, there's nothing amateur about what the students are doing and how they prepare themselves and the coaches who are behind them, and certainly there are many years of volunteer coaches and volunteer teams behind men's and women's crews, um, but we're in a different period now where we're able to have people who are dedicated through their professional life to supporting the student athletes. So it's it's a great time, it's a great time to be involved. So, yeah, encourage people to come be part of it, or just to come and watch. You know, get on there and watch turn of the tide, watch it on channel four or find out where you can watch it internationally. Uh, you know, come and be a part of it. We want more people to be part of it. We want people to feel connected to the boat race. You know, rowers from around the world can feel connected. There'll be someone, you know, from near you who'll be part of it, some really interesting young people. Um rowing, you know, we all need each other in this game, don't we? And uh, you know, it's a real it's a real privilege to be with you today, Peter and Christine, and thank you for featuring the boat race. You know, we hope we're doing rowing proudly. Uh, we know the students are brilliant, uh, and we're super proud of them every year. Um, and I think they represent the sport really well, and that's something that we can be always be really proud of, I think.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:55

Oh, Siobhan, you're a star. Thank you so much. I mean, when we were talking and planning this podcast for the year, and we thought boat race, that's got to be up there. Siobhan number one for our first episode of the year. We were so excited to talk to you, and particularly with all the as you've rightly pointed out, some momentous occasions coming out through the next couple of years for the boat race as a whole. A hundred and two hundred years in the next couple of years. It's absolutely phenomenal, and it's been such a privilege for us to get some insight into the machinations behind the the beast that is the the boat race and and what excites so many people on the tideway each year. So thank you so much. Really, really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:39

I'm still racing, so I can't sneak away for this weekend. But 2029, I will be there in some way, shape, or form. I promise you.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:48

You gotta do it, Christine. Now that 12-year rule's gone, you've no excuse, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:52

I don't know if I need to. I might be done with school. I might have really wrung the towel out on being able to study anymore. But we'll see. We'll see where how I feel in twenty twenty-nine.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:06

We will see indeed. Thank you.