Devils Insider - Episode 29 - March 31st - He's big, he's red.....

Coming up on Devils Insider this week - 

Weekend review: After a split weekend, the guys take a look at the win over Manchester and the loss against the Blaze at the Skydome (00:00) 

Interview: Devils defenceman Steven Maclean joins the show to chat about his time in Cardiff (13:00) 

Looking ahead thrice: With three games over the coming days, what can we expect from final league games? (36:50) 

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:00

Today's podcast is brought to you by Minerva Hearing. Hear the cheers, protect your ears. Shemai Powerback Kroyser, hello everybody, and welcome back to Devil's Insider for another edition of your Cardiff Devils official podcast. Dan Rodder alongside Gareth Ewish and Neil Francis. Guys, it's good to be back. We've got plenty to chat about, and it's a quick turnaround this week. So we're going to be uh looking at maybe a little bit of a shorter episode this week, but plenty still to go on about. But we will begin with the weekend just gone. Guys, Saturday, Devils beat Manchester in a like I like we said on DB for a really entertaining game of hockey.

SPEAKER_03 0:33

Yeah, I really enjoyed it. I I really did. Straight from the off, it felt like a good tempo. Uh it felt like two teams were getting in a good groove, and two teams I thought had uh applied the right kind of mentality to the situations that they're in. Um I think there's clearly a little bit of you know markers being laid down as well, just in case that you know I was gonna shake out those two teams might play each other a bit later. So I think that there was a bit of that as well. And that all kind of came together to make an enjoyable night. And most importantly, Devils got the two points.

SPEAKER_05 1:09

They did indeed. Franny, the game itself was, like we say, pretty quick and entertaining. But it it came the first two goals came off of two mistakes and 13 seconds apart, and that kind of exploded the game into life a little bit. And the Devils will be glad that despite the mistake by Stover, not only did he look great for the rest of the evening then, but also they got back on the board pretty quickly, and and there was almost a uh a kind of phoo feeling to to the the getting back in the game pretty quick.

SPEAKER_04 1:35

Yeah, I think that was pretty much Stover's only mistake of the game, and yeah, it was a big one. But like we talked about on the stream, um, when you're a goalie that plays the puck as often as he does, then now and again it's not going to go right, and yeah, whatever it happens, and uh he just got unlucky that it was kind of picked up quickly and um and finished on that. But he must have been absolutely delighted that his team go 13 seconds later down the other end and tie the game. So it wasn't like he had to sweat for too too long, and after that, his performance was phenomenal because as much as it was quite one-way traffic for the first two periods, massive pushback by Manchester in the third.

SPEAKER_05 2:14

Yeah, the first two periods of Devils were fairly dominant, I thought, and then and then, yeah, like you say, Storm come back into the game and really push hard in that third period. Guys, probably the the big moment of the game in in that third was the Devils against the runner play, you have to say, Ferguson getting the goal, and it kind of killed the tie-off, I felt.

SPEAKER_03 2:30

Yeah, it did. If you uh listen back to my call on that, I'm completely sort of talking about something else, and all of a sudden it's popped out and I've had to react. So it's uh a bit of a Yelper. Although most of my goal calls are probably yelpers, I'm gonna say. Um, but yeah, that I so I kind of thinking about how I reacted that, I think kind of sums up how that third period was going. It was that pushback, wasn't it? And Manchester didn't have the last game against as well. We had that sort of quote unquote controversial deflection off the skates goal, didn't we, right at the end? And when they got their late power play uh on Saturday, I kind of wondered if uh history was going to repeat itself uh a little bit, but uh Douggy uh snuffed that out pretty quick. But yeah, that third goal was important, and really when you when I think about Saturday and the way that played out, it was kind of the antithesis of the rest of our season where we've been battering teams and not getting those goals against uh when we're on top, but we finally got one when we were up against it a little bit and against the rudder play. So maybe uh we've earned that little bit of uh luck over the year.

SPEAKER_05 3:38

Yeah, I'm glad you brought up the power play, Gaz, that the storm had because the penalty kill for the Devils, Franny, was really good actually on uh on Saturday. And once again, we talk about Dougie getting the empty netter. He looked great on the power uh on the penalty kill, especially after coming back after catching the stick up high, being cut, came back on and killed the penalty. But the devils all night long looked great on the PK.

SPEAKER_04 3:58

Yeah, it was really good, and and the PK has been running really well. I mean, we will go on and talk about um Sunday where you know it didn't have its finest moment, but um I mean special teams as a whole, which I mean there's been so much spoken about the power play this year. Um, I mean it in March it's been absolutely buzzing. So I I think the latest stats are 37% for March on the PP, which if you consider going into March, I think it was at 14% for the year. Uh it's now up to 18-19% you know, off a absolutely fantastic March. So well done, coaches, for um persevering with it and finding a way to get it working. Um, but I mean penalty kill, back to your question, has been pretty solid throughout the year, and I think it's kind of ramped up a notch with the exception being Sunday.

SPEAKER_05 4:54

Because we've waxed lyrical about how important it is to build momentum in this last few weeks of the season, and if you know, even if just having seen the rest of the year's power play, for the last few weeks, if the power play is going and the devils are scoring on it, you put yourself in a position where you can win games in the playoffs.

SPEAKER_04 5:09

Yeah, I mean they're called special teams for a reason, aren't they? And they quite often win games, and you know, there is an argument to say had our power play been anywhere near as it was in March, then we would be the ones lifting the league title because the amount of one goal games that we've lost, and that's where your power play comes into it. It it's uh it makes a difference in those one goal games, and we we didn't have that, unfortunately, for the majority of the year. But let's hope we can keep on um flying this way right the way to the uh through to the playoffs.

SPEAKER_03 5:39

Just on the penalty kill quickly, for me, the last uh two, three, four weeks, I think Carnacker Pony's been really important on that penalty kill. He's winning a lot of races once that those packs break out of the zone, and I think that's that's really valuable. And I he he I feels like he's got a bit of confidence in those legs and in the role that he's been since he's been put out to the wing and had that bit of freedom. It it really feels like there's been a bit more unlocked, uh Eric Aponi. And fair play to him, I still believe that he changed his skating lane on that hit shorthanded as well, because uh, I think he knew if he hadn't have done then they probably would have been in the front row of block 10.

SPEAKER_05 6:19

Yeah, absolutely. And and I agree, I think his legs definitely stretch a team's power play, and they're normally leaving a guy a little bit higher just to just to maybe cover having him out on the ice. But um, yeah, good win for the Devils on Saturday night in a tough kind of game, a playoff style game, as you would imagine, at this time of year. Let's talk a little bit about Sunday now, and uh not so many positives really, but uh Franny, a disappointing result, a frustrating result because outside of the first period, the Devils looked alright. It was just that first period really was not great.

SPEAKER_04 6:48

Yeah, and even maybe 10 minutes of that first period, because I think the first, you know, the first half of that period, it was back and forth, it was you know, it was all looking good. Um, and then it was yeah, like shipping four goals. It the the annoying thing is we we very much may well have Coventry in the playoffs, so you kind of want to set down a marker, as you know, we did against Manchester, which could have been a possibility. Um and yeah, Coventry could be uh could be a matchup for us. So you and we've had a really good record against Coventry. I don't think we lost against them until Sunday, so you you almost want to keep that invincibility up, but instead go out and ship four goals in the first period. I mean, I thought um the the power play call on Joey Martin was really questionable. That was unlucky, and I don't think I've ever seen Joey Martin getting an unsportsman-like conduct penalty. Um we were just chatting off-air as well about the inconsistencies about calling a two-minute misconduct versus a ten-minute misconduct. Now, the rule used to be a ten-minute, it is now a two-minute, which I like more because it punishes the whole team, and you know, that way you probably get a tighter lid on discipline. But over recent weeks we've seen a couple of tens dished out, so I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 8:08

Uh yeah, two in two weeks uh here in the Vindico. And I questioned myself at the time on the first one a couple of weeks ago because in my head I was like, This this isn't right, and then when it kind of went up the board, I I give the the rest of the sort of barefoot of the doubt. But yeah, when it was called last night, I was a little bit frustrated because I thought, you know, we should have seen a couple in the last few weeks that have gone awry.

SPEAKER_05 8:30

Yeah, for sure. I I a disappointing first as well, just the last thing we'll speak about on this is Christian Stove obviously gets pulled, and and in the situation you're in, you've you've just shit for it, it's it's a message, it's Tomo kind of wanting to change things up. A shame for him because I think he's been lights out for weeks now and great. Came in off the back of the Manchester game, like where, like we say, he was really, really good as well. Disappointing, but hopefully not going to have much of an impact on his confidence generally. I think it was just a obviously a very difficult period.

SPEAKER_04 8:57

Yeah, just to be clear on that, he wasn't pulled for his performance. Um, I mean, if you look at the goals, they are backdoor chances from the kill, um communication during the penalty kill going astray, and you know, their backdoor chances or right in the crease where he can do nothing about that. Uh, the one that looked maybe he could have done something better was the fourth goal. But I think even that got a deflection on the way through. So it it you know it is not a reflection of Christian Stover. In fact, he had made five or six excellent saves in that 15-shot or whatever it was, first period. Um, it was more to try and uh change the momentum of a game, and it worked because the pushback from the Devils then for the rest of the game, I thought the Devils were really, really good the rest of the game. And and that to me was a really important bit. Going back to a potential playoff matchup. Um if you if we went in there and it was 4-0 and that becomes 5-0, 5-1 or something like that, that gives Coventry hope because if you get one of those first legs like that in the playoffs, you're pretty much done. Um, but the pushback from the Devils, if it was a playoff series and you come out there with one goal loss when you were four down, then you've probably got a massive momentum swing going into the home game. So I thought it was really important that the the Devils kind of just shook it off and got going. And I thought they did that in a really good fashion.

SPEAKER_05 10:26

They did, yeah. And they were led by the man in form right now, Brett Pellini, who gets the first goal. And and you felt I you you saw the reaction. It was lovely play by Ferguson along the boards, gets it to Pellini. Pellini has pretty much a two-on-o uh at that point. Very confident finish, guys, and and uh obviously a guy playing in form, but there was a good reaction as well from the guys on the ice, and you could tell that that they they knew that that might have counted for something, and it did.

SPEAKER_03 10:47

Yeah, absolutely. You had but both his finishes yesterday were uh I thought were were lovely. And you can just I think I mentioned this a few times across the year, but both positively and negatively, but you can tell a player's body language when the pack is at their stick, how they're feeling, how they're going, what they can do. And they just seen that, especially on his first goal when he picked up that pack, just everything just seemed to open up dinner. He had loads of time on the pack, and you just knew he was gonna finish it. So uh we're talking about good habits and and getting in the right swing of things. Pellini may be coming into uh form at the right time. Shades of Matt Pope on a playoff run years ago. I think it was what 10-11 games in a row he scored, including in the semi-final, and uh I'm hoping crossing my fingers that Pellini has a Pope on his hands.

SPEAKER_04 11:35

Yeah, and then they say if we can have that sequence and the ending, then that would be absolutely superb. But it's crazy, isn't it? I think 30 games without a goal, it's got five in five last five.

SPEAKER_05 11:45

Yeah, five points, five goals and five points at that time as well.

SPEAKER_04 11:48

Five goals in the last five games, and like you say, Gaz, when he was on that two on oh, uh the Pellini of a few weeks ago, who was massively underconfident and snake bitten, he would have passed that guaranteed. But you could you just saw that the assertiveness that he had, and he's now seeing big gaping holes, you know, in the netminder, as opposed to seeing just a huge netminder there, and he's really feeling it, and long may it continue.

SPEAKER_05 12:13

Yeah, long may it continue. The the game then went on, and the devils pushed really hard at the end. In the end, they get Estes gets the last goal with six seconds to go. It's frustrating because it's not the first time the devils have conceded an empty netter and then gone and scored after. Yeah, things of that becoming a habit.

SPEAKER_03 12:27

I'll be uh much happier because uh yeah, but I I think weirdly I I kind of piggyback on what Franny said about you know it only being a one-goal deficit. I I think it was important to push to the end and get our final goal to kind of just send that as out there that you know there's no downing of tools going on in in those moments. We're gonna push to the end for whatever situation may face us.

SPEAKER_05 12:52

Yeah, the Devils lose on the Sunday split weekend. They're gonna be looking to get back in the wing column in the week coming. Before we chat about that, though, we've got a guest on tonight. And if you haven't heard the song about him before, we'll let him take it away. Ladies and gents, a huge welcome on Devil's Insider this week to our very special guest, Steven McLean. Stephen, thank you so much for coming down. How are you doing, bud? You're right. I'm good. Thank you for having me. The very first question I want to start with tonight, and and and we we chat we'll chat about a variety of things, but we'll we're gonna start with this because I think it's it's probably my favorite thing about you as a player. Not many guys come into Cardiff and immediately get a song made about themselves. And we within within I think it was days, maybe even hours of if you arriving in Cardiff, we had the song about your feet sticking out the bed, and uh I'm very indeed to ask you about that. How quickly did you find out about that? And uh, do you know the words?

SPEAKER_02 13:42

I know the words, I hear it a lot. Um I honestly I didn't hear about it too soon. Um, I heard it. We were we went to the Cardiff City game as a team, and we're walking to the stadium, and I just hear the guys start chanting something, and then I just hear my name. And I was like, what are these guys saying back there? And then the rest of the night it was like during the game and everything, they were chanting my chant, and I'm like, Well, no one here knows who Steve McClain is, so like I'll just start chanting it too. So but I it's funny, I like it. Like it's it's harmless, it's it's a good time.

SPEAKER_04 14:19

So I I didn't even know about this channel until like today.

SPEAKER_05 14:22

Do you do you not? No, I mean you're welcome to uh to to read it out, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 14:26

You can you don't have to sing it. He's big, he's red, his feet stick out of bed. Steve McClain.

SPEAKER_05 14:32

Amazing. Have you managed to get the rest of the guys to to give it a go?

SPEAKER_02 14:36

Oh, they all do it.

SPEAKER_05 14:37

Oh, they'll all all the time. Yeah. Oh, that's brilliant. This is the best challenge. It's fantastic, isn't it? And whoever came up with that, big props to you, because yeah, it's fantastic. But um, yeah, well, we're gonna chat a little bit uh about uh the on-yeah stuff as well for you uh as well. And um, you know, I I'll I'll take you back to to before you came to Cardiff. And like a lot of guys in the elite league, you you came through U Sports and eventually made your way here. But um, how was your time in college? A lot of guys speak very glowingly of it, and and you look at the kind of variety of places that that people go, and and and what experience was that for you?

SPEAKER_02 15:10

Yeah, it was it was unbelievable. Um so yeah, I went to Laurier, which is about two hours from where I grew up. So, so pretty good spot. Um I played junior with probably four or five of the guys who were on the team. So yeah, we kind of just lived together, and and kind of the best part for me was like the hockey wasn't the most serious, like it wasn't the best program per se. Um, we were still allowed to have our fun uh and kind of just enjoy that college life um while still taking everything on the ice seriously. Um, but the coaches kind of knew like we're gonna let these guys have some fun and kind of obviously nothing the day before games or a couple days before, but like that that whole experience was awesome. Um but then I was there through COVID, so our season got fully canceled. Uh, we didn't skate at all. Um and it it kind of sucked in a way, but also you got the full college student experience, which was a fun time. Um something I you don't really get as a hockey player, um, just a full year off the ice. But yeah, awesome. Those friendships I I have there will like last a lifetime, those roommates I had there. It was unbelievable. And it was it was tough leaving them um after the year ended to go to Cincinnati that first year.

SPEAKER_04 16:37

And we get quite a lot of guys playing in this league that have played U Sports. Did you play against any guys that that uh have been in this league can you remember?

SPEAKER_02 16:46

In this league, uh there's probably a few. Most of the guys on our team were either out west or out east. Um honestly, I don't know that many guys. Um maybe a few here and there, but no like big names or anything like that.

SPEAKER_05 17:04

What was it hard? We in Gardiff, we we experienced the year without hockey as well, as kind of fans and and and guys who work around the club. So that was a whole weird experience. But picking hockey back up after essentially a year without it, what was that like?

SPEAKER_02 17:16

That was tough. Um that was that was really tough. But luckily we kind of had like we knew the season was going to be cancelled, so it wasn't like the guessing game of of when we were kind of coming back, so you kind of got the whole summer to kind of get ready for it. But yeah, that those first couple games were an eye-opener for sure.

SPEAKER_03 17:38

Yeah, I got a question about your sort of hockey upbringing and stuff. Uh like obviously, you know, you you're at at your size and the way you played. Did you ever feel at any point because when I first saw you start hearing Cardiff, the thing that struck me straight away is how comfortable you were with a pack at your stick, and we've seen your shot as well. Yeah, how good that when you were growing up, did you ever feel that maybe your size pigeonholed you in certain with certain coaches? And were you ever sort of steered to try and play one way against rings? How was that growing up?

SPEAKER_02 18:08

Um, yeah, maybe a little bit, but um I was kind of like a late grower, like I really didn't get to my size till probably like fully, probably till like 18, 19. So those like last few years of junior, and even into college, I was still kind of growing into my body, where like I mean, coaches wanted me to play heavy, but I was six, seven, 185 pounds. So I guess it's tough to kind of stand your own. But no one really like held me back or anything. I've always been more of a defensive guy, like not really a power play guy. Um, not the most points, but yeah, I I kind of just try and take pride in that end. So um maybe that was from the coaches early on, and I've kind of just stuck with that, but either way.

SPEAKER_05 18:55

You finished your time in new sports, and then like you say, you went to Cincinnati. Why why there? And and what kind of steered you to to there, and how did you end up? And did you enjoy your time there as well?

SPEAKER_02 19:03

Oh, I loved my time there, it was awesome. Um why I ended up there. I knew I wanted to continue playing pro or start playing pro. Um, I wasn't sure if that was gonna be right at the end of my college year or kind of the start of next year. Uh, we got eliminated on a Sunday from the playoffs. I woke up Monday with eight miss calls from my coach, and he knew the coach in Cincinnati. Um, they had a game on the Wednesday. I talked to the coach after that. They wanted me to come right down. So it was kind of like a no-brainer where they had some injuries. I was gonna get put in lineup right away. Um yeah, it was just it was an overall good fit. Like it's not too too far from home. Um, my parents could come down and yeah, I I really didn't know much about the pro game and how kind of that all w all worked, but uh I learned pretty quick.

SPEAKER_05 20:00

So the the the East Coast League, it it can be brutal, you know, guys jumping up and around, there's a lot of traveling involved and stuff as well. Do you think it was a benefit, maybe then, that you didn't have loads of time to think about it? It was essentially just an offer came along and off you went.

SPEAKER_02 20:14

I th I think for sure. I could have got in my own head and dug a little deep, being like, well, these guys are affiliated with them, so they might have guys sent down or called up, whoever. So yeah, I it was good. I just dove right into it and I didn't really think twice.

SPEAKER_05 20:28

So w in general, what did you make of your time in the East Coast League? You know, like like I say, people struggle with it, some people are really kind of adaptive to it. You were there for three seasons, so yeah, yeah, what was it like?

SPEAKER_02 20:40

Your expectations have to be low. Like you can't because some of these college programs that guys come from are like top, top notch, and they're competing with like high AHL level. But it the coast is like you're gonna earn everything in the coast, like not everything's gonna be perfect, but like stuff's gonna happen, a bus is gonna break down, like you're gonna show up to the game 40 minutes before. Like stuff like that's gonna happen. So you kind of just gotta go with it. And it the hardest part was probably the amount of games playing a Wednesday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday afternoon in three different cities across the US. Like it's it's not easy. Um but the overall, like it was it was unbelievable. Getting to like experience that was kind of my first experience in front of a bunch of fans in Cincinnati. We'd have 8,000 on any given night. And if it was a big night where they were doing a giveaway, it would get up to 10 or 11. Um, so that adjusting to that was a lot. And then being able to play in the playoffs that year was unbelievable. Sold out ranks and yeah, it was the whole experience was was great. And I I wouldn't change it as much as some things did suck in the moment. Looking back, it's it was great.

SPEAKER_05 21:53

Similarly to to U Sports, the the East Coast produces a lot of elite league players. It's probably fairly comparable in terms of standards. So not just on ice but off ice. What are the similarities and what are the differences between the two leagues you fancy is coming here?

SPEAKER_02 22:07

Um the difference is the amount of games. Um you get rarely you have a weekday game. Um it's a lot more practice time. And the practices in the coast are usually uh like half an hour, just get your feet moving. Here it's more like system structured. Um there's probably a lot of similarities. You like you get treated better over here. Maybe that's just the Cardiff thing. I haven't experienced the others, but the way you get treated here is it's unbelievable. Um, not that Cincinnati's bad in any way. It's just like it's a different level. Um differences would would probably be just the you know a lot of the guys over there, like you've played with some growing up and you've played against them, so you you're familiar with them. Um it's easier to like see your family and stuff, I'd say was the biggest adjustment for me. But overall, like it's it's not that different. It's probably a better or the this league is probably a little like higher higher paced. Um but also you have a little bit more time with the puck because of the ice, so it's a it's a weird thing to get used to. But yeah, overall, like I'm not gonna bash the coast. I loved my time there. I know a lot of guys didn't, but both leagues have been great so far.

SPEAKER_05 23:26

On the topic of of knowing guys, am I right in saying that Cohen Olashevsky and yourself were teammates for a little while?

SPEAKER_02 23:31

Yeah, about a month or so, and then he got called up.

SPEAKER_05 23:34

Was that part when you decided to come to Cardiff, obviously knowing the connection there, was that part of your decision to come here as well?

SPEAKER_02 23:40

Honestly, not really. I'd signed here and then realized because I'd only played with him for about a month or so. So I was looking at the roster and I was like, Oh, I know that name. So yeah, that was just a funny coincidence.

SPEAKER_05 23:53

And then nice to have a familiar face when you got here.

SPEAKER_02 23:55

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_05 23:55

Yeah. Um, speaking of the coming to Cardiff and and stuff, you you came in a little bit later after training camp here. How did the move come about? And and I know that you came in on injury cover as well, which is obviously a difficult situation to be dropped into. How how did the the move come about?

SPEAKER_02 24:10

Um, my agent and I were kind of looking for a team. I didn't really want to go back to the coast. I kind of just felt like I I wanted something different. Uh, I knew I wanted to go to Europe. So we were kind of just like I wouldn't say waiting around, but we were seeing if a good fit would pop up. And then it all happened really quickly. I think I signed on a Thursday and I was on a Sunday flight. Like it was it was quick, but I knew I was gonna go soonish, so I was kind of I was prepared for that. But um, yeah, getting here, it was kind of nice just jumping in right away though. Like again, kind of getting to Cincinnati, you don't can't think about it too much, like you don't have time to. So yeah, I'm I was happy with how that all went.

SPEAKER_05 24:52

I remember when the press release went out about your signing, obviously it was said that you you're a defenseman, and and not long after you you came here, I remember you started a game as a forward and and chatting to Paul Thompson about that, and he essentially said, Well, we were short on a guy, so so Mac jumped in and did it. And how did you find that?

SPEAKER_02 25:08

That yeah, I've I grew up playing forward. I switched to defense when I was probably 16 or so. Um, but I mean, a game as a pro forward is a little different than minor hockey. So um, yeah, he he brought it to my attention and then kind of said, Well, we'll do it in practice, and if I like it, we'll we'll go with it. And he's like, Yeah, I think we'll give this a shot. And then I think I've played five games maybe forward. So it's obviously working, a couple of goals on the board.

SPEAKER_05 25:38

Yeah, so yeah. Um uh we'll chat a little bit about your time in Cardiff. First of all, what do you make of the city? You know, like I said, you came in October, you're finally seeing a bit of sun, which is which is nice. Yeah, it's been a long time coming. But uh what do you make of Cardiff?

SPEAKER_02 25:51

I love it, it's awesome. Um, yeah, this the weather the last few weeks has definitely helped. Those three months of rain weren't weren't ideal, but yeah, I love it. Like just the proximity to everything. You can walk, I can walk to the rink, I can walk to the city center, to the bay, like anything I want. So just being there and then having all the guys around in the area, it's it's awesome.

SPEAKER_05 26:13

You've uh you've jumped into the lineup, like we say, as a forward and as a D-man. You've kind of been in and out jumping in where needed sort of since you've arrived here. Do you think the speed in which decisions like the Cincinnati one and coming to Cardiff happen help when you then get the call to go onto the ice and again it just comes naturally jumping on?

SPEAKER_02 26:29

I think so. Um I mean, it's never easy just jumping on. Um, but you kind of just like you're given the opportunity, so you gotta just make the most of it, really. And um, yeah, I I think it helped a little bit though.

SPEAKER_05 26:45

How's uh how's the room at the moment? You know, we're into the final few weeks of the season now. It's it's funny to be arriving at this point in the season, but we're we're heading towards the playoffs. The devils are looking like they're they've they're in good form going into it. What's the room looking like?

SPEAKER_02 26:57

It's good. The room's really good. We kind of had uh, I think after that Sheffield loss in Sheffield, we kind of we regrouped as a team. Like not that things were like bad in any way, but we kind of just reset. And these like last few weeks of like the practices have been the best I've seen all year. Like guys know what we're leading up to, so it's we know the intensity's got to go up, and that's what we're doing.

SPEAKER_05 27:21

So how's it been uh being coached by Tomo as well under under that? You know, like you say, he's a guy you chatted a little bit when you jumped to forward, and then he had that idea. And and what do you make a plan for him?

SPEAKER_02 27:31

I love it. Honestly, he's been he's been really good to me. Um he knows, like he understands the position I guess I'm in, where I'm I'm in and out, and kind of if injuries happen, I'm in. But he's been really good being uh like communicating that with me, like he's not like just leaving me out to dry type of thing. He's been really good. And um he's he's a tough coach, like he expects a lot, but I think that's that's what you need when you want to be a good team. Like you need that the guy who's not always your friend who's gonna tell you how it is, and it's it's been good. I've I've liked him a lot.

SPEAKER_05 28:10

Anything you guys like to add? Cool. So the very last thing we're gonna do with you tonight, I don't know if you've had the chance to listen to to other episodes. We get the guys on and we do the 20 questions, which are the quick fire ones to finish the interview. So uh you can give explanations for your answers, you can just say them straight up. It's up to you. But here we go. So, Stephen McLean, your 20 questions are your favorite single or music artist?

SPEAKER_02 28:30

Singer. Oof. Um we'll go um Mount Joy.

SPEAKER_05 28:36

Good choice. You got a favorite Mount Joy song?

SPEAKER_02 28:39

Honestly, not really favorite. There's probably like 10 really good ones. So your signature dish when you cook at home. It's like a taco bowl or something.

SPEAKER_05 28:48

Yeah. Uh your favorite place to eat out in Cardiff?

SPEAKER_02 28:52

I've heard uh you've probably got a bunch of pastures so far. A lot. But I went to one with my parents, it's Thai, I forget Madeira, maybe.

SPEAKER_05 29:01

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that was really good.

SPEAKER_02 29:04

That was really good.

SPEAKER_05 29:04

Tea Madeira. That's the one. Team Madeira, and kebab special. Yeah. Uh what's one thing that's on your bucket list?

SPEAKER_02 29:12

In general, or to do here?

SPEAKER_05 29:14

Anything you like.

SPEAKER_02 29:15

Oh man, probably just travel a lot. I wanna I haven't really traveled Europe at all, really, so that's kind of any countries that you've got a you've got your eye on. I got a few Greek buddies back at home, and they've always they rave about Greece. So I think I've been trying to do a trip with them, but they would work and all that. So bit of island hopping, maybe. Yeah, yeah, that'd be fun.

SPEAKER_05 29:36

Yeah, sounds good. Uh who is your best friend in hockey?

SPEAKER_02 29:40

In hockey. Um here, anywhere? Anywhere. Uh you want names? Job James Thompson. He uh played with him in junior, lived with him at school, and now he's just my best friend.

SPEAKER_05 29:54

So very nice. Uh what's your favorite TV show?

SPEAKER_02 29:58

Probably Friends. I've watched that about five times.

SPEAKER_05 30:00

You got a favorite friends character.

SPEAKER_02 30:03

Joey's the funniest, so I'll go with that. Yeah, nice. Uh what's your game day routine? Um, either go for a walk or come in in the rink in the morning, get a little stretch, um eat, try and nap. Usually can't nap, but try and go down for an hour or so and then eat again and come to the rink.

SPEAKER_05 30:22

Uh around the Elite League, which uh rinks have you liked playing at away from home?

SPEAKER_02 30:27

I like Belfast. Um I like Dundee, actually.

SPEAKER_05 30:33

We've had a couple of Dundee. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:35

People like the I like it. Um yeah, those two. I haven't been in Nottingham yet, so but I've heard that's a good one.

SPEAKER_05 30:42

Uh which NHL player do you most enjoy watching? Probably Kale McCar, which is the way I would never be able to do that. Uh beach holiday or a city break?

SPEAKER_02 30:56

Probably a city break, I get sunburned.

SPEAKER_05 30:59

Fair enough, yeah. Um the best moment of your career so far.

SPEAKER_02 31:07

It's honestly just like uh signing pro for the first time was probably just like kind of like a dream come true.

SPEAKER_05 31:16

What is your go-to karaoke song?

SPEAKER_02 31:19

Well, I don't do karaoke, but if I had to choose it's gonna be a weird one. It's probably like a U2 song or something.

SPEAKER_05 31:26

Oh, okay. Yeah, nice. Very good. Uh do you prefer the devil's red, white, green, or black jerseys this year?

SPEAKER_02 31:33

I like the black ones. I like the green, but I feel like I haven't seen them enough. But so I'll go black.

SPEAKER_05 31:39

We'll get on to Todd. Uh, your favorite sport outside of hockey to watch or play?

SPEAKER_02 31:46

Um to watch, probably baseball or golf, and to play would be golf.

SPEAKER_05 31:53

You got a baseball team?

SPEAKER_02 31:54

Trying to blue Jason.

SPEAKER_05 31:55

Yeah, good man. Yeah, yeah. Going hopefully going for it this year. Hopefully. It was a heartbreaking end to last season. Uh, what's your coffee order?

SPEAKER_02 32:05

It used to be a just a black coffee, but ever since coming over here, it's been a flat white.

SPEAKER_05 32:10

That's the correct answer. See, great minds and everything. Uh, who's the best player you've played with and then against throughout your career?

SPEAKER_02 32:19

Okay, we'll go against first. Um there's a there's a guy in the coast name, his last name's Hawkins. He played for Toledo, so we probably played him about 40 times. And he is the most insane shot I've ever seen in my life. Um and with E. Um honestly, I there's like a lot of names running through.

SPEAKER_05 32:47

Uh Samford last week probably peaked everyone's and said McDavid because he went to training camp. Um, kind of McDavid.

SPEAKER_02 32:56

I guess that works for him. Let's go Braden Kressler. He's uh I think he's in the A this year. Um, but I played with him in Cincinnati last year. Small guy, fast, really good. Ronnie, put him on the list.

SPEAKER_04 33:11

Yeah, got it. Hawkins isn't gonna come. Uh no, we got Brandon Hawkins he's talking about, so he's like always like an East Coast all-star. Pretty pretty much the mayor of Toledo right now, isn't he? Yeah, yeah. He's the mayor of Toledo. So I just want to strike that one, just want to quash those rulers.

SPEAKER_05 33:27

He's not he's not kidding. Um snakes.

SPEAKER_02 33:37

I hate snakes.

SPEAKER_05 33:39

Very good. Um your favorite film?

SPEAKER_02 33:43

Probably Goodwill Hunting.

SPEAKER_05 33:45

Very good choice. Uh Big Night Out or Quiet Night In?

SPEAKER_02 33:51

Probably quiet night in. I don't mind the night out, but a nice quiet night is it's nice.

SPEAKER_05 33:57

And the final question: uh if you could change one rule in hockey or change one thing about hockey, what would it be and why?

SPEAKER_02 34:04

Putting me on the spot.

SPEAKER_05 34:06

We've had a great range of stuff this year from the jailbreak CHL rule. If you score short-handed, yeah, the guy comes out. We've had the 3-2-1 zero point system, uh, floating blue line, that's been one that's popped up a few times. What would that be? So Franny will probably explain it better than I would.

SPEAKER_04 34:22

So once you cross over the uh opposition blue line, it opens the zone up to the red line.

SPEAKER_02 34:28

It's like a ball hockey thing. That's a yeah. Yeah. I like that. I do like the 3-2-1, though, the point system. But I get why they don't to like try and I guess keep leagues kind of tighter. But yeah, it like you shouldn't get the same points for regulation and overtime.

SPEAKER_05 34:46

But I I get I get why they do it. I agree. Well, those are your 20 questions, uh, and that's I think all we've got for you for today. Thank you so much for coming down. Well done on sitting through a card of city game this season as well, because it can be tough. Uh, as a man who knows why, it can be tough at times. So it doesn't happen often. But um, yeah, but yeah, that's all for for today, Steven. Thank you so much for coming down. We really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 35:07

Awesome. Thank you. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_05 35:10

Huge thank you to Stephen McLean for coming on the show tonight. Guys, a lovely bloke and a guy who, in the situation he's in where he's not playing every week, still very positive, heads up, wants to help out the team and a big contributor, not only on the ice but off fit as well.

SPEAKER_04 35:24

Yeah, I mean, he's been a brilliant pro um all the time he's been in here. He he came in in a situation where we had uh injured defenseman, uh Tyson Helgerson, and you always think by the time somebody comes back, there'll be someone else out. And actually, we didn't have as many injuries as you would anticipate or have we have done in recent years in his position. Um, so it has been difficult, and yeah, I really feel for him because he hasn't done much wrong at all in the games when he's plays. But you know, there there are other guys that that you know typically pay more minutes than him. Um, but he's done everything that's been asked of him, brilliant in practice, brilliant around the locker room, and you know, when he's called upon, I thought he had a great weekend in Belfast. What a tough weekend that is to go when you haven't played in a few games. And he went in and put a great performance in, and you know, he's done everything that he's been asked of, including going in as a forward and sniping top shelf against Sheffield.

SPEAKER_03 36:21

Yeah, and I think when you when I listened to him talk about how we ended up in Cincinnati and how he ended up here, I got the sense he's a guy that kind of takes things in his stride, just doesn't, you know, just just whatever comes at him, he'll deal with and you'll manage it. And I think that's probably contributed to his excellent sort of positive uh atmosphere and sort of the way he's handled things. So great to chat to him, really, really interesting guy, and uh yeah, best chant of the season by far.

SPEAKER_05 36:48

Oh, by a long way, yeah. Um speaking of taking things in asteroid, it's back at the rink on Wednesday, and and whenever you guys at home are listening to this, it may well be Tuesday night, Wednesday morning. The Devils face the Sheffield Steelers in a midweek sort of well, it this is a huge game because this in terms of the playoff implications and seedings will count to a hell of a lot. The Sheffield Steelers and the Devils, level on points, level on games, three to go. There's a lot riding on this one.

SPEAKER_03 37:13

I I don't care about the the points, I don't care about the league. I care about the fact that they've beaten us far too many times this year, and it's a really, really great in me. Uh it's it's my you know, Dan, I know you're the the Belfast, you know, rivalry guy. I'm very much the Sheffield rivalry guy out of the two of us, and it just it we have to put a stop to it. You know, anything else around it, yeah, that'll sort itself out, but I'm tired of losing to the Sheffield Steelers, and I just want it to stop.

SPEAKER_04 37:42

Yeah, one of the frustrating things about the Coventry loss was that a win there would have put us three points clear in second place, um, and you know, a lot more kind of certain of that second place, which you know, we we want to finish as high as we can now. But the there is part of me that says, Well, actually, we now have to go into playoff mentality because we've got Sheffield, we've got Nottingham in the last three games, plus looking to avenge the defeat against Coventry. Um, so I think it kind of instead of us playing out the year, maybe securing um second place with one more win, now we need to go out and beat two of our rivals to beat them to that spot. So maybe it does us a bit of a favour because it puts something on the line, which is great practice for when the playoffs start.

SPEAKER_05 38:33

Yeah, I agree. And I think you look back to the Dundee games, it felt at times like the Devils were coasting because they were able to coast. Whereas the last three games, and and we'll look specifically at Sheffield's one, you can't coast into a Sheffield game. They've not been good of late, I don't think. They really weren't great over the weekend against Dundee. They ground out a win, and then obviously they lose 6-5 in overtime. And and there's never a good time to play the Sheffield's deal. There's never really a bad time either if you're up for it. But um, guys, it it this is it is a good time, I guess, in a way to play them because they they're hurting right now.

SPEAKER_03 39:04

Yeah, I think the the tone of the uh kind of post-game stuff on Sunday suggested that they they wanted to make a point that they weren't happy with how that went. You know, there's a long form interview with a coach explaining what went wrong and things, and you know, I think they they put the goals up as well pretty quickly. And yeah, they they they're unhappy with how the the weekend has transpired, and you know, when if you're thinking long term, which we we should be in terms of we've got aspirations to win the playoffs, we have to compound that, you know. Um, the more negative an atmosphere you can try and foster on your rivals, the better it can be for you. So uh yeah, it it we have to take advantage of any sort of niggling sort of doubt that that Sheffield might have coming out of Sunday.

SPEAKER_04 39:56

Yeah, there's lots of side stories. I'm sure Sheffield will be glad to get on the road. That's four home losses in a row, which is you know a disaster for them. And you can see why the microscope is out and the extended coaches interview and the highlights up quick. I mean, that's what tends to happen up in Sheffield. But four home losses in a row, so they'll be glad to get on the road. Um, they've got a really good record against us this year as well, so they'll be feeling more confident playing us than they maybe have in recent years when their record hasn't been so good. So it just sets it up really nicely. Because, like Gaz said, I mean, it I think that the Sheffield certainly of the teams that are closest to us, our record against Sheffield is by far the worst of for this season. And you know, one win against them just makes it look a little bit better. But again, like I say, you know, it gets you in this playoff mentality mode. You know, who knows? We may see them further down the road. So it would be nice to get um a win against them just to kind of amend this record that that we've got so far.

SPEAKER_05 41:00

Well, yeah, they're the only team in the elite league right now that the Devils haven't won at least half the games against this season. You know, they've got three or more wins against everybody but the Sheffield Seas, who they've got one against, which is obviously disappointing. And uh I think there's gonna be lots of eyes on that game. There's a four games on Wednesday night as well on the around the elite league. So the playoff implications will be moving constantly. We'll be trying to keep ourselves updated on that. Then we look ahead to the weekend and and and we're gonna chat about the weekend as well because we haven't got a chance to speak with you guys between now and then. So the Devils they start the weekend at home against Coventry, and like you say, Franny, perfect chance to avenge the the the what happened on Sunday.

SPEAKER_04 41:36

Yeah, I mean, if you take that as a practice two-legger, then we're one down from the first leg. So let's you know take that mentality in that we've got to go and win by two. So again, it's good practice for the playoffs. Um, I think what happened in that first period would have shaken the guys to uh you know the penalty kill was brilliant, but then it was exposed a little bit, so there'll be a lot of work going on over the next few days to put that right. Um, we know Mishmash is uh a fantastic player. Pedek in front of the net worked really well for them. Um and don't forget they they didn't have um Vartanen on the back end who's got a load of power play goals. So um obviously the power play is uh a key weapon for them. Um and yeah, it will be hoping to build from the momentum that was created because I felt there was momentum created in the last two periods, including pushing right the way to the end with six seconds left.

SPEAKER_05 42:31

Guys, you've described the Blaze as a bit Jekyll and hide this season. I think probably actually the game on Sunday is a pretty good example of it. They were great for the first period, then weren't fantastic for the second and third. They lost 4-0 to Guilford where they were abysmal a couple of weeks ago, but then have won a couple of games since then, including beating us. You don't really know what you're gonna get from them, and I think that actually probably will work in the devil's benefit.

SPEAKER_03 42:52

Possibly. It is strange. Like if you in the run-up to the game against Manchester last week, in my head, there was a clear pattern of how that game was gonna go and where it was gonna be won and lost. With Coventry, I I can't really pinpoint to you now where that game's gonna be won and lost in this in the sense I I don't know what weapon they're gonna come at us with. For example, I I don't think Mishmash has been particularly effective against us previously, yet he was running the show on uh especially in that that first period. Or resist last night, yeah, like and he probably wouldn't be someone I had considered as a weapon against us. Sorcerman absolutely killed us early on on the power play, and then maybe we'd kind of nullified that uh a bit, but he could come back and and do things. Robson could uh be lights out again. It's just yeah, you it it must be I you know the video must obviously get done well by Thomas, but I I don't know what you would look for. You must have to watch about 20 games to try and get a pattern on what you might face, and that worries me a little bit in terms of uh of a series. You you have to you I think it's hard to plan for, but it's entertaining overall. That's what I will say.

SPEAKER_04 44:04

Yeah, I mean Coventry are the the biggest puzzle in the league for me because you know they went on this 11 game or whatever it was, winning streak, they got themselves to a challenge cup final and put in a great show in there. And you look at the league table and they're in seventh spot and you think, How? Um, you know, they got an absolutely fantastic goalie. You know, Robson, I rate him right up there. Um, played really well on Sunday against the Devils, but the encouraging thing is you've still found a way to get four past him. Uh, so yeah, they they are a very puzzling, puzzling team. They've got you know a lot of good players, they've got um you know a lot of the tools that you need. And I I'm just not quite sure why they haven't put it together on a more consistent basis, very patchy. I mean, for if they went 11 in a row with wins, they must have had a significant amount of losses in a row uh to keep them in the seventh spot.

SPEAKER_05 44:53

Yeah, it's weird because last year I looked in and thought, well, there's a load of college guys first year proached, but quite a few of them have stuck around. So that that that experience has built a little bit, and and they still have guys like Talberg and stuff as well in there who are who are veterans at this level. So it is a bit of a puzzling one. And and when I when I say it could work in the devil's benefit, their inconsistency, I think what it does is it puts them in a position where because they don't know what to expect and because they don't know what's coming, you just have to plan for the worst, and and you just have to plan that they're gonna be all out, Robson's gonna be lights out, and then they're gonna be absolutely you know running everything really, really well. But yeah, it sets it up really interestingly, and of course it's the last regular season home game for the devils of the season. That's a whole other kind of element to it as well, is that there's that that kind of party atmosphere a little bit in in the arena. But um, yeah, then they head up to Nottingham on Sunday, and and I mean the Devils have a winning record in Nottingham this season. Again, I don't understand. Sometimes hockey just doesn't make sense, and that's fair.

SPEAKER_04 45:47

It's been a long time since we've said that.

SPEAKER_05 45:48

Exactly, yeah, and and and and and they'll go up there. And if they do beat the Steelers tomorrow, if they do beat Coventry on Saturday, then they'll be full of confidence. But then if those games don't go fantastically, all of a sudden you you're feeling a bit worried. I do want to just preface all of this and say, of course, we didn't touch on it last week because we weren't sure of what where the situation was at, but Ryan Barrow is not gonna be there, and he's been great in Nottingham in particular this season. That's why I bring it up now. That's a big loss for the Devils, and they're gonna have to, not only in the Nottingham game and in all three, counter that as they have done this weekend, just gone.

SPEAKER_03 46:20

Yeah, absolutely. It's uh it's a huge shame, isn't it? For for Ryan Barrow to to miss out at this crucial last stage considering the season he's had. He would have been someone who, in my head, would have been someone I would look to to be a game breaker in in big tight games and drag us through situations. So, you know, big stick tap to Barrow to get healed up as quick as he can. Uh, you know, I can't thank Tom enough for not making our trips to the Motor Point of Misery this year. I uh used to hate tuning into those games with a sense of foreboding and dread, but we went to quite quickly in the beginning and that sort of snuffed that out. Um, I do think the performance we put in against last time is going to be a factor. I think they've got to be really keen to snuff that the memory of that out pretty quick. It's their last home game uh before the playoffs on Sunday as well. So I think they're gonna be right out of the traps very, very quickly, and I think we have to be very mindful of that.

SPEAKER_05 47:22

Yeah, and I think an underrated element to all of this is the fact that Nottingham went to Belfast last weekend, they lose the league title on the Friday, and then on the Saturday, where they're playing, we'll call it a depleted Belfast lineup. Sore sore heads, maybe. Um, when they're playing that lineup, they can't beat them either, and they'll want to put that right.

SPEAKER_04 47:41

Yeah, and you know, you know, Danny Stewart is gonna get them fired up for the game because he will be bringing up the Cardiff loss and he'll want to try and make amends for that. Very disappointed with the Belfast losses, especially the the Saturday night, which is the second game of the two. You know, in his interview, you could tell he wasn't a happy man at all. I mean, you've got a team that have just celebrated a league title, they've been out till the early hours, lots of their key guys scratched. Um, an opportunity there to you know at least get a you know two points toward trying to get that second place, and they don't get it, and it totally compounds the the loss, doesn't it, when it's against a team with so many scratches. Um so yeah, I mean I I think they they've probably been in for a tough set of practices this week. Um they'll they play Manchester, I think, on the Wednesday. Um, so you know that's gonna be a battle, so they'll be battle ready um come the weekend, and yeah, again, it's uh it's it's all kind of shaped up nicely for preparation for playoffs because you want to go out against a team that's really going all out that's gonna make it difficult for you because it gets you uh battle ready. But just skipping back to your point on Ryan Barrow, absolutely gutted for him. Um, you know, arguably he's the one forward that you wouldn't want to lose ahead of the playoffs just because the way he plays every game gives you everything, and yeah, in in those games where there isn't much going on, he can drag you into it, and that's what you need in the playoffs. And um, I'm just hoping that his teammates recognise the contribution he's made this year and step up for him. Um, one bright note on that was it was good to see Nolan Yure back on um on Saturday, as Tomo said in the post-game interview. It was trying not to do too much too soon, hence sitting him out on Sunday. I assume he'll be back in the lineup on Wednesday to you know continue that rehabilitation from that that injury. And let's hope he comes through with that because you know, there is a player that plays with a bit of grit, he's got a score in touch on him. He you know, he to me strikes you as a playoff type player. Um, so let's hope that you know your remko can keep on the progress and uh maybe turn into a little bit of a um a hidden gem come in the playoffs.

SPEAKER_03 50:05

Yeah, absolutely. It's uh I guess we uh what we haven't done is congratulate Belfast on uh winning the league title uh during this. So uh we've got to I think acknowledge the work that Adam Keith's done there. Uh again, one quick question to you, uh, we mentioned about that game in Nottingham and Belfast on Saturday and the sore heads. Uh Challenge Cup 2006. We win the Challenge Cup on the Saturday, we play Edinburgh on the Sunday. Do you have any recollection of how bad that bus trip was? Because I know Gretzky's bar didn't shut until probably by the time the bus was leaving. And I always remember Ed Patterson saying, I didn't give a teen talk on Sunday, and I didn't give anyone any rouse during their performance. Do you have any recollection of it?

SPEAKER_04 50:53

The only recollection I've got is that it was a flight. Right? That might be worse.

SPEAKER_03 50:58

Yeah, I it's unusual for that time.

SPEAKER_04 51:00

Yeah, and something sticks in my head about what do you do when you go to the airport? You have airport beers, and I'm I'm I'm pretty sure there's a couple of airport beers being drank on the on the way up there. But one thing I can't remember, and I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing, is what the score was up in Edinburgh.

SPEAKER_03 51:17

Oh, we lost 3-0.

SPEAKER_04 51:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:19

Oof.

SPEAKER_04 51:20

I definitely can't remember that. And and and thing is, I probably played a lot in that game because, like with the Belfast when they sit guys out and guys are played a lot of minutes, that was probably an opportunity for me to play more. So I probably had a stinking hangover and I probably had the most ice time I had all season. Yeah, Mike Bravo was a net. Yeah, wow.

SPEAKER_05 51:41

Oh, to be in the the olden days, we'll call it. It wasn't even that long ago. Minus three. Well, you're not thinking about it. It's fine. But yeah, like you say, guys, uh, congrats to the Giants. We say it through gritted teeth, but they they do run a great operation up there and and have secured another league title back to back. And yeah, it's it's on the devils to go chase them.

SPEAKER_04 51:59

Yeah, uh, you've got to give it to them for their consistency. Um, at the start of the season, they were in fifth spot, fans calling for Adam Keefe's head, they've just come off the back of a grueling Champions League campaign. You know, it looked like it wasn't going to be their year and it was going to be someone else's opportunity. Um, and you know, credit to Adam Keefe and the leadership of Belfast. And I think it does go back to the core that he's got that have been there and done it before. You know, the guys like Goodwin, Conway, Pickenich, Jackson Whistles had a brilliant year before he got injured. Um, they very quietly pulled themselves back into it. Nobody was talking about it. Everyone was talking about Sheffield and Nottingham and ourselves, and they just kind of snuck away win after win after win, and next thing they're on the shoulder and they just took it over. And um, that's uh it's not it hasn't happened just by chance. Uh it it's happened because they know how to find a way to win those games when they're not going the right way.

SPEAKER_05 52:57

That they do. Uh, this time of year, you can't sneak too many wins, but the Giants did enough to get it over the line. We're into the the playoff run where you definitely can't sneak any wins. But uh yeah, three games this week, uh a huge week for the Devils, and and keep an eye on that league table because things will be moving not only on Wednesday, but on Saturday and Sunday too. That is all for Insider Tonight. We really thank you all for listening in once again. Thank you to Stephen McLean for coming down and chatting to us. Thank you to you two, both, Franny and Gaz for coming as well. And yeah, we will see you all very, very soon. Good night. Thank you very much once again to our sponsor, Minerva Hearing, for today's podcast. And remember, Minerva Hearing, hear the cheers, protect your ears.