Fran Haycock [00:00:00]:
In my kind of personal experience as I've come into this role and you know, for sustainability leaders, moving businesses too is kind of find your cheerleaders. Having strong executive sponsorship has been absolutely essential to not only the progress we've made in the last 18 months, but my personal experience and how I lead the business without that. You know, I've never been in a role or in a business where we have. I haven't had that yet, but absolutely now I've realized the power of having a strong voice on the executive team and someone that's driving that is absolutely essential to make progress and have that connection, especially when we think about strategy. Right to your initial question on integrating business strategy with sustainability.
Saif Hameed [00:00:45]:
I'm Saif Hameed. Welcome to the State of Sustainability podcast, a show for professionals transforming corporate sustainability strategies brought to you by Altruistiq. Hi listeners. Today I'm joined by Fran Haycock, head of sustainability at Greencore, to discuss the nuts and bolts of leading a successful sustainability transformation. From building a high performing team to securing budget to aligning with business objectives, we're going to dig into Fran's strategies and playbook for mobilizing change. Fran, super excited to have you with us.
Fran Haycock [00:01:23]:
Hello. Very excited to be here. Thank you for having me. Awesome to chat through with you.
Saif Hameed [00:01:28]:
As head of sustainability, you're in the driving seat for Greencore's sustainability agenda. Could you tell us a little bit more about Greencore as a business for those that don't know it, and also your role and your priorities?
Fran Haycock [00:01:41]:
Yeah, of course. So Greencore, not many people know us, so we're an organization that sits in behind all the big retailers effectively. So we are a convenience food manufacturer. We're the biggest. We're actually the biggest sandwich producer in the world. A fun fact about us, but we also produce things like ready meals, soups, salads, Yorkshire puddings, sushi, so all sorts of convenience food.
Saif Hameed [00:02:04]:
And Fran, am I right in saying you're the first individual to have this role at Greencore as well? I remember you'd moved laterally from within the commercial team into sustainability. Was this a new role created when you moved into it?
Fran Haycock [00:02:17]:
Yeah, so it wasn't a. Wasn't a new role. So I had. There was my predecessor who was in the role. He set up the strategy actually, so was with the business for about four or five years before I took the role. So Andy brought me into the team. So I came in as a program manager from my commercial background and then moved into this role about 18 months ago now.
Saif Hameed [00:02:38]:
So last March and Program management, I think is an amazing skillset to have coming into this. I know you often talk about this as a business change transformation process going through sustainability. And that's also how I think about it. I think one of the best parallels that I can think of from my consulting background is digital transformations. How companies used to go through these and sort of think end to end. How do we change the way of doing business and really try and embed digital in every part of our organization. And I think that they're approaching sustainability in much the same way where it's a cross cutting transformation for you. How do you ensure that your sustainability transformation aligns with the business objectives for Greencore? Because I know this is a core part of the business strategy as well.
Fran Haycock [00:03:23]:
Yeah. So I think it's early days. I think most businesses are kind of battling with that at the moment in terms of how do you. And ultimately how do you make those two strategies at one that shouldn't be considered as two strategies. It's how do you just build a business for the future that is sustainable in every way that it operates. So I guess for me the things I'm focused on at the moment in terms of aligning the agendas as two separate agendas and there's a chapter of what you do when you bring those together. So I think for us at the moment it's about, for me it's about spending time, a bit more time with the chief Strategy officer and kind of bringing our roles a bit closer together and working quite closely with him on his thinking for the future of Greencore and what that looks like and being close to all of the processes in his world. So what are his big deliverables? What are his team working on? When do I.
Fran Haycock [00:04:11]:
When should there be some crossover between our teams? But also working closely with the business exec. So making sure I have kind of sight of the key decisions that are being made at the exec and when those decisions are being made and what could be the key kind of moving and shaking decisions that shape and could impact sustainability quite significantly. I guess across that is staying close to the, I guess I call it the strategic heartbeat of the business. So kind of being in the right rooms, being part of the right conversations and for various kind of head of sustainability or equivalent that depends on where you sit in the business. So kind of where your reporting line is and what conversations you're privy to and also how close your team are with the business too. Right. Not only me and my role, but how close my team are to what's going on because they're effectively sometimes my eyes and ears for what conversations are happening as well. So I think it's an ongoing journey.
Fran Haycock [00:05:05]:
I think you've got to kind of meet the business where it's at. As much as I'd like the business to be more integrated with sustainability, it's all part of where the business is. And I have to kind of accept that and be patient with the business to an extent on that.
Saif Hameed [00:05:19]:
And, Fran, do you find that you're informing strategy and that sustainability really underpins certain elements of the strategy, or do you actually find that you're seeing the strategy and you're identifying, well, what are the pieces that sustainability could help accelerate? Or is it actually a bit of both?
Fran Haycock [00:05:35]:
Yeah, I mean, I think it is a bit of both when I think about the future of food and if I think about these elements of our strategy that I see is more transformational. So if I think about healthy and sustain sustainable diets is a topic that definitely seems like an element that's more transformational and needs to be more tightly aligned with business strategy. So our ability to deliver on healthy and sustainable diets is quite heavily influenced by the strategic decisions that we make. So where are we? Which customers are we growing with, in what categories? And also if you know, we're looking to move into new categories potentially, what are those categories and what impact would they have on our healthy and sustainable diets agenda, for example? But I think there's elements of the strategy that are just kind of more hygiene and not transformational. So I do see sustainability. Back to your point about kind of sustainability transformation, I do see it as an overall transformation program, but I don't see it as, you know, we've got 10 topics, we talk about 10 topics. I don't see each of those topics being as transformational as the other. So I guess part of my role is working out which topics require more transformational leadership and hence more support from me, maybe, in my role.
Fran Haycock [00:06:45]:
And which topics can just kind of work themselves because they're more hygiene topics and they kind of are delivered by the business, if that makes sense.
Saif Hameed [00:06:54]:
I'd love to jump in and ask for an example of each. I think that big transformational topic that requires everyone to lean in and get it over the line versus something that could be handled more business as usual. Could you share like a bit of color from something you're working on?
Fran Haycock [00:07:09]:
Yeah, sure thing. So, again, healthy and sustainable diets, for example, is something. When we think about the way in which food is food Preferences and food choices will change in the future. So the way in which Greencore currently operates is we do primarily large volume lines of your classic kind of lines that sell a lot. So. So if I think about our top selling lines across the retailers, things like ham and cheese sandwiches and those kind of products, if I think about the business that we may have to become in the future to. We'll have to become in the future to support that agenda, it's fundamentally could change our business model. So it could be kind of lower volume lines, it could be more complex lines, it could be sourcing from different areas of the world which, you know, change our manufacturing process, different packaging.
Fran Haycock [00:07:55]:
So it could fundamentally kind of change the way that we operate. And that's why I think of kind of healthier and sustainable diets as transformational. It's also transformational in terms of the consumer perception on food and their choices. When I think about something that's more kind of a hygiene factor, I think about things like sourcing responsibly. So albeit there is a big transformation behind soy, the soy agenda. So there's elements of that that are more transformational than kind of hygiene. When I also think about things like human rights, that's something that to me is a hygiene factor. You know, as a business that is good hygiene expected to operate really robustly in that area and manage your risk and look after people in the most appropriate way.
Fran Haycock [00:08:37]:
That for me feels like something is just good business and the business are used to doing that and we carry on with continuous improvement. But I wouldn't consider that transformational as such. If that helps.
Saif Hameed [00:08:48]:
It helps for sure. And Fran, everything that you're describing is as you say, really cross cutting and trying to sort of move the whole business forward. That means that you also need a wide range of capabilities at the table. Could you tell us a bit how you think about resourcing team setup? Is it a lot of existing people and existing functions and you're corralling them together or are you trying to build your own team which has all the right capabilities in it?
Fran Haycock [00:09:15]:
Yeah, I mean front of mind thing for topic for me at the moment. So I think about it in two ways. So I think about the capabilities that I need in my team. So what are the capabilities that need to be central? We're a kind of a central team that support the business because ultimately I am a believer that the sustainability team shouldn't be too big, that you've got to get the key roles in there with the right people. And I think for My team, I'm really hot on. Style is as important as skills. So I look for, you know, my most recent recruitments have been about, yes, you've got to have the skills but also data skills and, you know, other skills in sustainability. But is their style appropriate for the business? Are the business going to like working with them? Because it's really, really important that the business do.
Fran Haycock [00:10:00]:
I kind of think of it as friend and foe type relationship with the business. We've got to be able to do the carrot and the stick and I need people on the team that can do that really well. Data and analytics is essential in the team, but also, you know, we need those skills in the business. So we have a kind of what we call a plan ownership model where we've got 10 leads for each of the topics. And I think about them as my kind of dotted line team, as an extended team. Maybe that's something we do differently at Greencore, but obviously I've got my direct line team and then we've got the 10 plan owners which are effectively our extended leaders. So, you know, the skills we need from them are kind of similar in the soft skills arena that I look for in my team. So resilience, got to have loads of resilience, got to be quite flexible and agile, got to have that agility to kind of change focuses and move things around quite quickly.
Fran Haycock [00:10:52]:
And I think across both the plan owners and my team, it's about having good change makers too and kind of change advisors. So ultimately my dream team or ultimate structure and the structure I'll look to implement going forward in future roles goals is to have the team split almost between change makers and specialists. I do believe that, and I think some businesses are already moving to this, whether they've got a separate reporting team and then they've got like a reporting team and a delivery team. But I do think there is space for super specialist technical expertise. So in soy and things like carbon, absolutely. But I do think there's a need for dedicated change makers because it's a different skill set.
Saif Hameed [00:11:33]:
I agree, Fran. I mean, anecdotally we've been thinking about this quite a lot ourselves as well, just as we look at different functions because obviously we kind of have an interesting position where we're able to see so many different companies and how they're set up from a team perspective. And I actually find that I'm seeing a data and analytics sub function or team within sustainability and maybe this is interfacing with it or not, but that's like one Capability. I'm seeing then like a reporting capability as well, often embedded within sustainability, sometimes within finance or co owned. I'm seeing then a project management capability which I think is the change makers that you're referencing. And then I'm seeing a fourth which is around the science, the internal subject matter experts, whether it's R and D focused or otherwise. And that I find can often be insourced or outsourced even to consulting partners and the like. And I think different companies call these four things by different names.
Saif Hameed [00:12:32]:
Would you say that I'm like more or less aligned with how you're thinking about it as well or are there any gaps or capabilities that I'm missing?
Fran Haycock [00:12:38]:
Yeah, no, I would agree with that. I think so. It depends on the size of the business. I think bigger companies, bigger budgets, more of a focus on innovation. I think brands potentially have a quite a big depends what market you operate in. Could have quite a big focus on innovation. If you've got budget that supports that, then that kind of works really well. I think I'm really interested to see how team structures evolve in businesses because as the reporting space the demands of that increase, I think for having the reporting resource and the change resource and the same team can become quite distracting.
Fran Haycock [00:13:12]:
So if you think about the demands of the reporting, there'll always be a deadline to hit. I can sense it coming and I've seen it in my team already as well can become quite distracting to the change management that needs to happen. And I think this is part of the industry conversation on there's so much reporting and we're getting so bogged down in the reporting that we can't do the change that really in the leadership that really matters. So I think there is logic in splitting those teams and whether they're reporting into different functions could be even more relevant. So the reporting guys get on with the reporting and the change guys get on with the change and they speak to each other but ultimately they're both driving different trains, if that makes sense. I'm really interested to see how it evolves actually in the coming years and what good looks like from a team perspective and how to set it up most effectively.
Saif Hameed [00:13:57]:
I agree and I do think it does look quite different across for example brands versus retail versus other parts of the value chain. Fran, another thing that I've noticed is, and this is maybe a little about you personally I've really admired over the years your focus on learning and development and capability building. And I've seen this manifest in two ways. I think about Formal ways where I know, for example, you went to the Cambridge program as well, along with, you know, some, some individuals from our team, like Greg and various others. And I think that was a really good investment early on in building an understanding of the topic space and really familiarizing yourself. I think that was one of the first things you did when you were in role, from my recollection.
Fran Haycock [00:14:38]:
Yeah.
Saif Hameed [00:14:39]:
But also I noticed that when it comes to, for example, finding stuff that informs your thinking, Whether it's on LinkedIn or otherwise, I really love the proactivity and pulling in members of your team and saying, hey, this is something that's relevant to what we're doing right now, or, hey, this might be interesting for you, and I notice you do that quite systematically around certain topic areas. Is this sort of focus on learning and training and capability building? Is this something that you're thinking about as a leader very actively and formally, or is it something that's more ad hoc and on the go, or is it a bit of both?
Fran Haycock [00:15:11]:
Yeah, great question, a bit of both. And I guess part of the challenge with sustainability teams, as you definitely know, is that, you know, the time pressure and the hours that the team are already working and, you know, just, hey, can you read this and can you just do this and have a look at this? And you know, I do have to be a bit careful with how much extra stuff I'm kind of saying, hey, have a look at this article and bombarding them with loads of stuff.
Saif Hameed [00:15:32]:
Right.
Fran Haycock [00:15:32]:
But, you know, it's important. It's important because I think as green core, we've had a big focus on climate literacy and the work we've done with future food movement. And you would have seen that. And, you know, we're driving climate literacy really hard in terms of kind of exec can board all the way down, top hundred leaders, plan owners. And it's easy to kind of get totally focused on that and kind of forget about upskilling my own team. So anything we do with the business, whether we do kind of upskilling, we've done a couple of full upskilling days for the plan owner group and making sure that my team come along to that. Because what I am keen to do within the team is make sure that even though I've got a couple of specialists, that we're learning about each other's agendas. Because again, when you're so busy, it's easy to just be like, right, I'm human rights, I'm responsible, sourcing, and kind of not take the time to learn about the interconnectedness between the topics, because the more we all learn about the sustainability, the more we all realize that everything connects.
Fran Haycock [00:16:27]:
And it's not just about being a human rights specialist. It's about connecting the dots between what happens on climate here that impacts human rights and what happens here that impacts this. And so it's really important my team learn about the strategy holistically so they can understand the interconnectedness of those topics. But I think, personally, I mean, the Cambridge point, you know, I actually got accepted into that before I accepted this role. So it just so happened that the two kind of collided at the same time. But my background, as you know, is not sustainability. So for me, the motivation was to do some formal sustainability training. And that's absolutely not to say that I think you need to.
Fran Haycock [00:17:05]:
To be in my role or similar, but I just really wanted to kind of put some formalization behind the learning that I was doing. Although the economics, my kind of economics background in finance is actually becoming more and more relevant, I realize, as time goes on. So it's kind of bringing those two worlds together, which is going to be my kind of challenge in the coming years as I learn more.
Saif Hameed [00:17:24]:
And, Fran, I think it's wonderful how all those different skill sets really come to fruition in this role from, like, a leadership style standpoint. How do you think your approach has evolved now that you're a few years into the journey? Are there things that you're approaching differently to how you might have previously in your previous roles? What's that road been like?
Fran Haycock [00:17:45]:
Yeah, so I've learned a lot and still learning in terms of the best way to lead in these kind of roles. I think it is definitely one of the most challenging kind of leadership roles I've had. I think the stakeholder kind of navigating stakeholders is incredibly challenging. You've got kind of all sorts and, you know, they're learning as well, so they're changing their perspective. Perspective as you go along. I think the storytelling, and I know I've heard you talk about kind of storytelling quite a lot on the podcast and how do you get good at that? And I think that's really, really important for my role. But not only my role, the team. I need the team.
Fran Haycock [00:18:17]:
I need all of us to be good at storytelling. And how do we upskill? Actually, that might be my next upskilling for the team. How do we do good storytelling and the discipline around the planning in terms of. And I talk to the team and the business about ruthless prioritization, and I Think, you know, one of your events, actually on a panel I mentioned those exact words because I'm a total believer now that not only in my role, but the team have to be. We need to be brutal sometimes about what we're prioritizing and what we're not. So that's been a key lesson I've learned as a leader. And I think they're absolutely something I'll take forward. I think for me as well, having the ability to fly at 40,000ft and drop to 20ft and then back up to 40 and kind of fly in between seamlessly is a real skill and definitely not one I've nailed yet, but absolutely one I recognize as being a key leadership skill as well.
Fran Haycock [00:19:10]:
I think the other thing I'm thinking about is the elements of the CSO role. So I'm starting to think about it as a sum of all of the executive team roles. So kind of a little bit strategic, a little bit financial, a little bit legal, a little bit operational and commercial. So I'm kind of taking my leadership style forward in that, thinking about it in that way. And I don't know if that's something that you've kind of can relate to or have heard other people talk about, but that's where I see the CSO role going in the future, personally.
Saif Hameed [00:19:40]:
Yeah, I agree. I think that like most transformation roles, I think it contains multitudes and has elements of like many different sub functions. And I think that the most effective society sustainability leaders I see have certain majors and minors and I think the combination can be different. They might think of actually business innovation as the major. Their main goal is they need to come up with new formulations and they're an R and D heavy business to business provider of new materials and ingredients and so on. And so leading the innovation agenda is key and that's the major. And maybe there are certain other minors. And I think that the combination can be different.
Saif Hameed [00:20:20]:
But I think appreciating what you're going to focus on and own as a function and do really well is important. And maybe, Fran, coming back to your point around narrative and storytelling, you know, I kind of see this almost like this maturity curve as companies become more mature on sustainability, where they start out kind of promising the world, almost like, yes, we're going to set these super ambitious targets across 200 different metrics because that's what's being thrown at us. And I think as they mature, they decide what are the battlefields that they're going to really own and dominate and do well at versus the things that actually aren't core to the business. How do you think about keeping everyone. And I'm really thinking not just sort of, I'm really thinking almost exact team upwards to board and shareholders. How do you think about creating alignment on not just the things that Greencore is going to do really well, but also the things that you're actually not going to try and be exceptional at because you can't do everything. Like, how do you maintain that narrative consistency of focus and let's be really, really good at a few things and okay. At many things.
Fran Haycock [00:21:23]:
It's difficult. It would be my summary, I mean, I think. I mean, across the board, I think the board's expectations and maybe the exec. I think the board would like us to be great at everything. Right. So. And I think we're still on that journey of. I think you need to get to that base level of this is okay, this is what okay looks like, or this is what good enough looks like.
Fran Haycock [00:21:45]:
And until you've got there with all your team topics, you kind of have to have them all on the same equal playing field, right? And go, okay, this is what good looks like for all of you. So then how do we maintain good for you, you and you, and how do we go excellent here, here and here? And what does the excellent look like? And I think as a food business, and I guess this relates to what are our stakeholders expecting of us to. So not only what means, what's important for Greencore and what do we want to be known for as a business, but we're private label. So, you know, it's slightly different journey to a brand. A quite different journey to a brand, probably in the sense that, you know, our customers, we produce for customers. And so we need to be aligned with what's their expectation of us and what do they want us to be good at and what do investors want us to be good at? That's where materiality comes in. And we're preparing for CSRD in a couple of years. So we're going to do a renewed double materiality assessment.
Fran Haycock [00:22:35]:
Be really interested to see what comes out of that. Because ultimately that's kind of partly how you prioritize, right? Is what does everyone else expect of us and what do we expect of ourselves? I think it's pretty clear at the moment that the healthy and sustainable diet's agenda is growing rapidly. The importance of that, the expectations and the pressures on food businesses, I don't think anyone in the business disagrees that, you know, we need show leadership We're a key, we're a major food producer in the UK and I think consumers, listeners on the podcast would expect us to do right by that agenda. So that would be the agenda that I feel, I feel personally most close to and I think as a business and leading the agenda at Greencore, I think we need to. Yeah, that's an agenda where you show leadership and I guess to your point, like where do you show leadership, where do you lead and where do you follow and.
Saif Hameed [00:23:22]:
Yeah, so yeah, exactly. And I guess maybe that leads me in Fran to think about budgets because I think that when a company is looking to lead on certain topics, you kind of always have to resource accordingly. It is very difficult to navigate a massive transformation and say, by the way, this is going to be at the same cost of doing business as we had last year. I always find that hard to believe. How do you approach and think through the topic of budgets? And I'm kind of, I have in mind not just the people or team side but also anything else that you might need to think about. Whether it's again, innovation, new packaging, experimentation, digital solutions, all the kind of stuff that, you know, consultancy, all the stuff that you might have to think about. How do you approach the budgeting topic?
Fran Haycock [00:24:08]:
Yeah, so I think my first real budgeting cycle was this year. Well did a cycle last year but the first time I'd kind of done a renewed cycle with my new team. I think I like to think about the budget in two parts. So one is what is my team budget? So what are the things? I think you need to be really clear with the business on what sits in the sustainability team. So what does the sustainability team pay for Things like. So for us like CSID reporting costs, that kind of central reporting costs, licenses we take costs for in the central budget. So having a really clear view of what do we pay for and what do we not pay for. And then ultimately the second part of budgets is thinking about what sits in the business and how do you align kind of accountability with the KPI with the associated budget that you need to deliver the KPI.
Fran Haycock [00:24:56]:
So I'll talk through an example of if you're allocating kind of responsible sourcing KPIs out to the procurement team. For example, so deforestation, deforestation, pre soy or kind of cage free eggs. How if you're going to give them that KPI and kind of give them ownership of that deliverable, then the expectation in my eyes would that they own the kind of budget that's needed to deliver the KPI and hence the cost of that sits in the business. And I think that kind of helps drive accountability and helps drive, okay, where's the pot of money to deliver the KPI? It also stops the kind of central sustainability budget from kind of expanding, ballooning out. Right. Because there's always going to be eyes on the sustainability budget and you know, it's getting too big and et cetera, et cetera. So you got to be a bit tactical on that and just make sure it's balanced between the business and the team. The other thing I'm thinking about is I think you mentioned earlier around the use of consultants, right? So how do you set the budget up? In my team's budget to make sure, but also the business budget for the plan owners to make sure they've got the support that they need to cool down, like a cool down budget.
Fran Haycock [00:26:00]:
So how do we kind of have enough money and set ourselves up successfully so that if we need to call on consultants and specialists, then we can and we just cool down off that money. So I think it's about starting early. There's definitely a lesson I've learned. Giving yourself plenty of time not only to think about the sustainability team budget, but also what conversations you need to have with the business. So go through their plans with them, ask the right questions of them, prompt them in the right ways to make sure that what you need them to capture in their budgets is actually going in their budgets. So there's no surprises. So you don't get halfway through the year and say, hey, have you got the money for, you know, xyz? And they go, no. So you know, you've got to make sure you're set up for success.
Fran Haycock [00:26:42]:
Right. So start early would be my big tip. And thinking about it in two ways is kind of how I've personally done it at greenpool, but not saying I've, you know, I'm super experienced in that either.
Saif Hameed [00:26:51]:
So brand, this has been super helpful. I want to quickly summarize a few of the main takeaways over this conversation and then I'm going to have one closing question. But my summary is I really love the way in which you lean into the cross functional nature of the role and I think we've covered a few bases in how you approach that. One is from a design and strategy perspective, you look to closely align with the business strategy, so you lean into the strategy. For Greencore, it's a bit of you informing the strategy and a bit of you being informed by the strategy when it comes to the team Setup. You then also think about the capabilities that you need and what capabilities might you find elsewhere in the business. How do you pull that together so that you can act as an appropriate sparring partner almost to the business to get the transformation agenda over the line? And I think that reflects also in how you're thinking about budgets, where you look to identify what sits within sustainability versus what sits elsewhere. How do you actually tag team with different parts of the business to get the overall agenda across the line? And I think to me, this speaks to a really nicely kind of integrated sustainability function that is owning that business transformation agenda.
Saif Hameed [00:28:01]:
I think we both agree that narrative and communication is an area that's going to be an evolving space for teams like yours across businesses over time. And I think particularly having the alignment across top to bottom, that there will likely be certain areas you'll excel at in certain areas where you're going to be good enough. And I think the materiality assessment is probably just the right place to start on that. Have I missed anything, Fran? And then I'll go on to my final question.
Fran Haycock [00:28:27]:
No, no, I think that's well covered.
Saif Hameed [00:28:29]:
My final question, Fran, is, as you know, this is a podcast for sustainability professionals by sustainability professionals. If you had to give one piece of advice to others in your shoes, what would it be?
Fran Haycock [00:28:40]:
Yeah, one that's going to be tricky. I think the main piece would be, you know, as I've, in my kind of personal experience, as I've come into this role and, you know, for sustainability leaders, moving businesses too is kind of find your cheerleaders, because having strong executive sponsorship has been absolutely essential to not only the progress we've made in the last 18 months, but my personal experience and how I've lead the business. Without that, I haven't been in a role or in a business where we have. I haven't had that yet, but absolutely now I've realized the power of having a strong voice on the executive team and someone that's driving that is absolutely essential to make progress and have that connection, especially when we think about strategy. Right, to your initial question on integrating business strategy with sustainability. So I think making sure you've got the right people around you and knowing who those senior leaders are and then getting them to help you create more of a community of cheerleaders, really. And then I guess my 1.5 on that would be kind of hire great people, because sustainability is tricky. You need great people to navigate it and, you know, absolutely.
Fran Haycock [00:29:45]:
I think getting the right people in the right roles in the sustainability team is absolutely key to making progress.
Saif Hameed [00:29:52]:
Grant, thank you so much.
Fran Haycock [00:29:54]:
I snuck in a one and a half there.
Saif Hameed [00:29:56]:
It was a good half. It was a good half. I'm glad you did. Thank you so much. We've really enjoyed this conversation with you. Lots of interesting learnings for our community. I'm also just looking forward to seeing you again in person and continuing the conversation.
Fran Haycock [00:30:08]:
Yeah, no worries. It'd be great to catch up again. Thank you so much for having me. I hope that was helpful. And yeah, we'll speak to you again soon.
Saif Hameed [00:30:14]:
Of course. Thank you very much.