Episode 35 Two Days in the Valley and Jackie Brown

Dave & Christopher review "Two Days in the Valley"-- a 1996 Neo-noir black comedy starring Danny Aiello, Jeff Daniels, Teri Hatcher, Charlize Theron, James Spader, Marsha Mason and Eric Stoltz; written and directed by John Herzfeld

Dave & Christopher also review "Jackie Brown," a 1997 crime drama written and directed by Quentin Tarantino and starring Samuel L Jackson, Pam Grier, Robert DeNiro, Michael Keaton, Robert Forster and Bridget Fonda

"Ride Captain Ride "© writers: Mike Pinera, Frank "Skip" Konte  performed by Blues Image

Transcript

Two Days in the Valley

SPEAKER_02 0:03

Hello and welcome to Let's Go Get Some Ice Creative. My co-host Christopher. We've worked together for several years at a small town movie theater and ever since I've seen a lot of movies that have seen thousands over the years. We provide unique perspectives on some welcome movies everybody's seen, and some of them have. But sure. If you're looking for a good movie or two to enjoy, you've come to the right place. Let's get started. Alright. So this week on our show, I decided I would pick Two Days in the Valley, kind of to piggyback off what you picked, which is uh Jackie Brown. Um this is a 1996 American Neo-Noir crime black comedy written and directed by John Hersfeld. The film stars Danny Aielo, Gregwell, Jeff Daniels, Terry Hatcher, Glenn Hedley, I should say, Peter Horton, Marsha Mason, Paul Mazersky, Jane Spader, Eric Stolz, and Charlie Sterone, who really was kind of her first role. I didn't say introduction, but I know she did, I guess, Children of the Corn before this, uncredited, but this is her official first role. Credited role. Yes. The plot centers around two hitmen named Lee Woods, who was played by James Spader, and then Mafioso Dasmo Pizzo, who's played by Danny Adams.

SPEAKER_03 1:26

I thought it was gonna they were gonna say at some point what the significance of what of that was, but they never did as far as I know.

SPEAKER_02 1:32

No, it's just that's just Dasmo Pizzo. Pizzo, or yeah, that's interesting. But uh basically it's about those two hitmen, they walk into a bedroom with uh a sleeping couple, it's Olympic athlete uh Becky Fox, who's played by Terry Hatcher, and her husband, or ex-husband, Roy Fox, um played by Peter Horton. As we see, uh the two hitmen, Will Lee, gets on top top of or not really, but he gets on Terry Hatcher and sticks her with a needle. Thus you're like, what the hell's going on? Basically putting her out, and then they question her husband, ex-husband, yeah. Roy asking him, Do you know this guy, or this lady? It's Helga, which is played by Charlie Sharone. Uh that's that's basically the start of the movie, because when we get there, um and Dosmo, who has been kind of on I don't know, hiatus from being a hitman, thanks Lee, like, hey, thanks for you know. And they make small talk at the beginning prior to them going into the couple's room.

SPEAKER_03 2:31

Oh, the two hitmen? Yes. Can I just interject? Um uh James Spader plays like the um almost like a Terminator type, like really cold, super accurate, almost like I wouldn't say uh I don't know. I um I don't know what it's like to be a hitman. I don't most of the hitmen that I've ever heard of are usually kind of somewhat incompetent and they get caught and go to jail. But in the movies, you always have this guy who's got his hair just perfect. I'm thinking like, when did he go get his hair styled? And when does he have time to like get the perfect tailored clothes and he has all the right lines? It's almost like a little too perfect. Um, and then Danny Iola is kind of like the opposite right, what you're talking about, the guy's gonna get caught. Yeah, that's the kind of guy that like give me 2,000 bucks and I'll shoot your ex-wife or whatever, and then they get caught and they rat you out and then you go to jail too. That's that makes sense to me. Um, I guess I don't know, I just wanted to point that that trope of like the super uh super assassin. I mean, it just seems like there there was an episode of I'm rambling. There's an episode of Law and Order, I think, where there was a guy who was a hitman, but he was like um what is he's like an accountant? He's like a little schlub, look like a an English teacher, and he was like, and they were like, oh, he killed whatever, 30 million people, whatever it was. He's been we've tried been trying to catch him for all these years, but he was so like an inconspicuous, like he would never know. And he had like, oh, that's weird. You will like would you like some teas? Like he's very like you know, militose, like that dude would get away with shit. Right. But this guy, James Spader, just seems like he's got like the silencer and everything. It's like uh it's a little bit much. I mean it's a quibble. I'm not saying it's a bad part of the movie, I'm just saying I'm just pointing out that trope.

SPEAKER_02 4:13

Right, and I'm what I was gonna do is pick it back off you, but today's movie would make it seem like he would be like Ben Stiller or Ben Affleck's character in the accountant, right? Right, kind of uh high functioning Right.

SPEAKER_03 4:25

What do you call it? Like a savant, like somebody who's an expert, like that all they do is thinking about killing and like And maybe this is a precursor to all that.

SPEAKER_02 4:32

Yeah, maybe. I mean, but yeah, I understand what you're getting at because he was he knew more about Dasmo than Dosmo knew about himself. Right. He even tells him that.

SPEAKER_03 4:40

Right. And he's just like kind of nonchalant, and there's a thing where they get in a fight later and he's got the drop on him with the gun, and it's like Well he called he didn't call Dasmo Dasmo. He goes, Okay, Dumbo. Dumbo, that's right. That's what I mean. I thought they were gonna like explain like what what the significance of the name was because he got really offended, which you would do. Sure. Somebody calls you Dumbo, but I just thought like, oh, my you know, my grandmother from Italy gave me that name or something. I was like, oh, okay, that makes sense as to why it sounds kind of weird.

SPEAKER_02 5:06

And that's how I was gonna hit on in this movie. I like the movie. It's it's not a great movie, but it's a fun movie. It's a good movie. Um, and part of the reason, like I said, to piggyback off Jackie Brown was because this is a copycat. Was this Hister? This was after Pulp Fiction. Oh, wow, okay. And this kind of preludes to, well, shortcuts was made before this, but those movies were you have this huge ensemble and they all intermix somehow and they all meet. Yes, they all connect, right? They're all interconnected. This is done, most of those movies take a while to gestate, right? And this is done within what, an hour and 40 minutes, not even two hours.

SPEAKER_03 5:43

Well, I will say that um when the two hitmen are questioning the the man and the couple, uh uh Terry Hatcher's outcold, or so we think. I don't know, but we'll leave that open. But um they're asking her about when when did you meet the South Koreans or something like that? Yeah. Some kind of like espionage thing. Yeah. And the guy was like, What are you talking about? Blah blah blah. And so that was like so it kind of it kind of like you come in at the middle of the story, not the beginning. So you're kind of like, what's happening? Right, you know, and you're kind of like forced to pay attention, and then there's I won't give it away, but there's things, as you said, it's all a bunch of different people, but their stories seemingly are different, but they kind of start coming together, and you're like, Oh, how does what what how does she know that other thing? And you know, you kind of really are pulled along, like trying to pay attention and catch all the details.

SPEAKER_02 6:31

And the James Spader character likes to have a stopwatch with a minute.

SPEAKER_00 6:35

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 6:36

He uh tells people, you know, a lot of things happen in a minute, lives change in a minute. That guy's gotta go to jail. I'm just saying he's I mean, he's sadistic. He's very much sadistic. You know that and I know that. You learn that as you go along in the movie. You see his character. Right. And you're right, he asks about the South Koreans, and he puts a picture of uh Helga, right? Which is right, Charlie's Therone. Did you and he's later on, I mean, I won't give away, but there's a reason he's asking this question, especially about Helga, right? Did you like did you sleep with well we you know and something comes up and he basically goes, Yes, because he's about to the minutes up.

SPEAKER_03 7:10

Right. And we've again can't give that away either because it's kind of a mystery, but Helga is brought up before they even come into the the room, right? So you're like, oh, how do these two dudes are they after her to kill her? Like you don't you don't know what's going on, but like I said, it starts kind of in the middle of the movie. All this stuff has already happened, and they keep talking about things that happened in the past, you know, you cheated on me back then, or you were with that girl, or you were with that guy, but whatever, and they're like, Okay, I have no idea what the fuck's going on. It's interesting though, you're like, okay, what's happening now, you know, and you have to follow along.

SPEAKER_02 7:44

Yeah, I I found like this movie, I I enjoy it. It's a fun movie. Yeah, I didn't say great, but it's fun. But again, you can see how everyone would at the time, because Quentin Tarantino was huge, he did Reservoir and then Pulp Fiction and launched him. Right? He set a new standard for movies and and dialogue and all that. So there's gonna be copycats, and this is what this is.

SPEAKER_03 8:06

And this was whose directing?

SPEAKER_02 8:07

Is it Hertz? Hertzfeld, yeah. And what has he done other than this? I'd have to look it up. I didn't do my homework. But I can really quickly give you that. Uh the name sounds vaguely familiar, that's why I ask. Um he directed Two of a Kind, which is uh Two of a Kind? Yeah, that's a but she was in it. No. Olivia Newton John? Yeah, Olivia Newton John, thank you. Sorry, kids. Uh yeah, his uh filmography is not it's nothing really to sorry. No biggie. I mean he got this, so this is his of all the movies, this is the best one he's done. Yeah. Um yeah, he was an actor, he's an actor too. He was in Cobra. I'd have to see what role that was. Wow. But Cobra. Yeah, so what I'm getting at again is that this is you can see essences of uh what I've read, like uh Altman, director, um Tarantino trying to be that creative dialogue, even the characters later on between the two cops. You got Eric Stoltz and Jeff Daniels, yeah, you know, polar opposites, and that's it's interesting that dynamic. We get to sit with the two hitmen, they kind of you know play off each other, so well, one off the other. What I think Dasmo thinks that Lee and him have a connection because they're hitmen, you know, he even tells him in the beginning, Oh, I appreciate you, you know, looking me up. It's been a minute. And Lee's just really using him, James Fader, like and really you know, like I said, he's really dismissive, like, oh, okay, Dumbo. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:41

That's what I was wondering.

SPEAKER_03 9:42

Like, why are they together if they don't like each other so much?

SPEAKER_02 9:44

He uses well, he uses Dasmo. Right. Not to give away, but that's a fact in the moment.

SPEAKER_03 9:49

Right. That's what I mean. That's one of those details where you're like, you're questioning and then you want to you want the answer, so it kind of naturally pulls you along. It's kind of like a book, I would say.

SPEAKER_02 9:56

Yeah. But uh after that caper, I mean, Lee tries to end it with Dosmo, and he pretty much thinks he does. I'm not gonna again I'm gonna be purposely vague on the plot points because I think you should watch it. Um Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:10

I I you can't really even give anything away because everything leads to something else, and so you give away one thing, you give away the whole thing. Right. I I I think uh It's like it's like you said, it's basically a group of uh several groups of two or three people, usually two, uh, who all have seemingly separate stories, but yet they start to come together because of this overarching mystery that we don't know about, that you won't know about until later on in the movie. Right. Um kind of similar to like you're saying, light pole fiction, kind of like how they're all like different people, you know.

SPEAKER_02 10:43

But they all tie together somehow. I mean, I was thinking interestingly enough, because there's a bunch of movies like this, like I said, Magnolio comes to my mind. I mean, not as this isn't nearly as good as that, obviously. Right. Um, but in the short time, I mean, even the character of um Jeff Daniels, Alvin Strayer, and his partner, um Stoltz, who plays Wes Taylor, Wes even tells him, because Wes is Eric Stoltz telling him that he's transferred different departments. He's been 10 years in a department and he's trying to get on to he wants to solve crime, he wants to be a real cop.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

Right.

SPEAKER_02 11:21

And you can see that Jeff Daniels is just kind of, you know, he's been doing it for I think he said 17 years, something he's been, he's like, all right, kid, calm down, just you know.

SPEAKER_03 11:32

He's kind of burned out.

SPEAKER_02 11:33

Yes. Yeah. And we even see a little thing in regards to him, he gets a letter, and again, I don't want to really give that away, but it does the letter reflects, I can see later on in the in just jumping ahead with his character, that whole I'll just say this one part because he's writing a thing to his kid, right? A birthday card. And it's a huge card, and he buys one of those squirt guns, those you know, cannons. But the thing that killed me was that he goes, first daddy and second daddy. There's a picture. I mean, who who does that? I mean, you're his dad and that's his stepdad, but no, the either the mom and them, so that they don't want to what hurt the kid's feelings or confuse a kid's gonna grow up right with two dads. I mean, that's could be a plus, but defining it as one as first daddy and second daddy, that's demoralizing as the biological father.

SPEAKER_03 12:27

Yeah. Um I kind of got the impression that he I um I was gonna say if a big unfiltered, I kind of got the impression he brought it on himself somehow with his behavior. Oh yeah, I'm sure. So he probably drove his wife away and then maybe got the bottle or something, who knows? But he just seems like like a loose canon type of character.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

Right.

SPEAKER_03 12:46

Where he would just be like, Oh, I'm I don't have time for my family, whatever, and then later on when prone reflection goes, Oh shit, I need to go back and now I'm in my own apartment by myself and I need to try to like you know re-ingratiate myself to my kids, and but that by then everyone's moved on.

SPEAKER_02 13:04

I can see that what probably happened is he saw himself and Eric Stoltz at one time.

SPEAKER_03 13:09

Right. And it annoys him. Right. Because he knows what's where well he thinks he knows where that leads.

SPEAKER_02 13:15

Well, I can say, you know, where I used to work and seeing when you first well, I mean, I was older when I started, but anyway, I can see how those younger people coming in are so gun ho, right? Yeah and you who've been doing it for a while, like, you know, it's I'm trying to think of a movie reference, like, you know, just sit down, relax. Right, right. You know, calm down, don't don't be in a hurry.

SPEAKER_03 13:38

Training day is kind of a bad example, but kind of similar.

SPEAKER_02 13:41

Kind of.

SPEAKER_03 13:41

You know, Denzel's like, yeah, we don't do, you know, all that. Oh, you use the chokehold and I thought we were telling us to use that, huh? Right. You know, Mr. Mr. by the rules.

unknown 13:51

But yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:52

See, you gotta come to you're gonna come to my way of seeing it. You're you know, you're all gung-ho right now, but you know, that's not that doesn't work in the real world.

SPEAKER_02 13:59

And that's going back to those two guys, it kind of ties in because later on, and it's not a spoiler, but Peter Horton doesn't make it. The the husband, uh Becky uh Oh, right, right. Um he they ended up uh Lee kills him. And then we see Becky wake up and she realizes because she's covered in blood and she's freaked out, and she stumbles down the street, and two guys that she stops are uh Alvin and happen to be our cops.

SPEAKER_03 14:28

Cops, and she's like explaining, oh my god. And the cops are working on a completely different case. Right. And you think that case is gonna go somewhere and it doesn't, as far as I know. I think it's just kind of a plot line.

SPEAKER_02 14:39

A misdirection purposely, right. Yeah. Because when you see it, the the plot line is this are their little misdirections. They go to investigate massage parts and make sure that they're not giving you the happy ending, right? And what a waste of taxpayer money. And that's what you know, that's what Wes is getting at. I'm I came here and I'm on vice for what? And then Alvin, uh Jeff Daniels, is upset, like, hey, this is a good community. And this is where you can see where he has kind of lost it. He's not it's like it's one thing, I mean, but really it is a waste of taxpayer money. You're really a massage parlor.

SPEAKER_03 15:13

If you're not gonna do anything to them, they're probably gonna get a fine, probation, they might get deported, might get deported, maybe if if there's if they're illegal, that's a that's an assumption.

SPEAKER_02 15:22

Right. But again, yeah, that's it. You're gonna shut down the business for temporary, they're gonna move on under different uh business heading or right.

SPEAKER_03 15:30

I mean assuming that they're not illegal, that they're just Asian. I don't know why people jump to that conclusion, but uh anyway. They could just they're like if I was doing that, I'd get a fine. And then I'd be okay, there's my slap on the wrist, great, here's my money, because I'm making money from this vice. Right. So here, here's your little fee, and now I'm gonna get back to what I was doing, and I'll be more careful this time.

SPEAKER_02 15:51

And then what if Alvin doesn't realize, but there's a lot of his coworkers that end up going to this. I mean, I'm sorry, man. No doubt. I mean, people need to relieve stress. Right. I say that with air quotes jokingly, but you know, I mean That's what I'm saying. I mean, even West Eric Stoltz, you could see there was that moment between him and the masseuse. And of course, you know, there's other stuff happens while he's being massaged. Right. And he's trying to go that, but then he doesn't he's like she doesn't really just offer it freely. It's kind of hinted around. Right. But she you know. And he goes, Oh no, I'm good. And he tries to even hide the badge 'cause it drops out in one of the scenes. Right. But even him, as he goes back, he's like, What if we doing? I mean, goes what we just said a minute ago.

SPEAKER_03 16:37

Like, this is Yeah, there's two of there's nothing else going on in LA, nothing else that we need. Cops, we're okay. Right. Yeah, that makes sense. Don't we have a war on drugs going on?

SPEAKER_02 16:50

But it's funny because when they stumble upon uh Terry Hatcher's Becky Fox and they go to her house, she's all frantic, and you know, Wes is so excited, Eric Stults. He goes, She goes, Can you call the cops? Lady, we are he's all flashing the brad, he's all excited. Now he's a real case. Yeah. Because then when they go investigate, even that's kind of a he messes up on that. I mean, Jeff Daniels is like, okay.

SPEAKER_03 17:16

Yeah. Jeff Daniels is super unprofessional, so that's why I started to think like he brought some of that stuff on himself when I saw that later scene. Because he's like, you know, he's he's yelling at his partner in front of the civilian. Right. It's like that you take him aside or something, or like hold your tongue, or he just are you doing that right in front of her?

SPEAKER_02 17:36

Well, he keeps trying to defer, we'll let vi, you know, we're what are they? They're not, they're not vice, right? What are they? I'm trying to but he says we'll let oh, the detectives.

SPEAKER_03 17:45

The detective, yeah, don't touch the evidence, blah, blah. Yeah, I know that stuff's all true, but like don't like be like a dick about it right in front of you know the public or whatever. Right. You can just say, Oh, okay, you know, let me have that or real quick, and then later on take them aside and be like, hey man, don't touch stuff, and you know, I know you're not used to it or whatever, veteran, blah, blah, blah. It just seemed like I don't know. I just, I just thought it was what a dick. He's like, he's being like, is do you need like a hug or something? It's like, oh yeah, we could see that sit down or something. It's like, wow, don't touch the evidence. Blah blah blah. It's like even the Harry Hatter's like, why why are you guys fighting? Right. Why are you guys fighting? I know, my I'm a fucking victim and I gotta break this shit up.

SPEAKER_02 18:24

My ex-husband's dead up there, and you guys are fighting over yourself. I'm covered in blood, but hey, you know, yeah. Um, yeah, that's an interesting dynamic. Those been how that all tied in, you know. Yeah. And then we see Dosma later, who escaped himself from something. I won't again, I'm trying purposely to be vague because I don't want I want you to watch the movie. Yeah. And he stumbles onto the Glenn head headley character and her boss, um, Greg Crut well, Alan, who's really kind of just a he's an artist, but he's such a pompous prick. Yeah. I mean, we see him how we're interested to to uh Alan is he's driving somewhere in this is all set in what? Um LA. Yeah. Outskirts of LA or something like that. And he's he's in downtown LA one day driving his fancy BMW and he starts having we're like, what the hell's the matter with this guy? He's falling on the street, cars almost hitting him. Right. And finally this guy who's stealing a car picks him up, takes the still-on car, takes him to the hospital. Yeah. That's what's hilarious, and he finds his wallet. So that guy scored twice, a car and his wallet. Um, come to find out he was having kidney stones, but he makes it such a big deal. You know, and Glenn Hedley plays Susan his assistant in a very thankless job. I mean, he really just abuses her. Right. I mean, even on the phone prior to that, we don't see who she is, but when he's talking to her and like really down to her talking down to her. Yeah. But Dosmo stumbles onto their house, uh his house, right, and he basically takes them hostage.

SPEAKER_03 20:10

So now that's two story, two seemingly not connected stories that have now merged. Sure. So that's kind of what the story the movie does throughout.

SPEAKER_02 20:17

You can't really give away most of it without like just Yeah, because then you give away too many plot points, and then it's gonna take away from you enjoying the mystery of the only other group is like the director guy Paul Mazerski kill himself. Right.

SPEAKER_03 20:31

He's got they're the other two outliers, and then the woman that he meets at the graveyard or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 20:37

Well, she's a nurse, Marsha Mason, who happens to be the their half siblings. Uh Alan and Marsha Mason, uh Audrey, they're half siblings.

SPEAKER_03 20:50

But yeah, they all kind of So all these groups of two that are all seemingly separate from each other, all their stories kind of merge into one, and you don't think you don't see it coming, but it it I should even probably too much even saying that.

SPEAKER_02 21:05

Right. No, I don't think you did. I think it's still fine. But uh Susan, Glenn Headley's character, tells Dazma, I know you from Sard, and he goes, 'cause they you know, then we find out how, but it's I mean, I'm leaving out Charlie Sterone's character, Helga, who I mean, very attractive woman, even starting out. You're like, holy I mean, I remember watching that movie, you're like, ooh, who is that? Because I mean, she is very easy on the eyes. Yeah, definitely. And then you find out her and Lee, James Spader's character, have a thing.

SPEAKER_03 21:39

And her and Becky. Right? Or had a thing or something, or they had a lot of things.

SPEAKER_02 21:46

There's a connection there, and we're not again we're being purposely vague and uh anyway, they have to just watch it.

SPEAKER_03 21:51

I mean, we're just giving away like we're not trying to be you know if you've seen pulp fiction movies of that type then This is something that you might want to. Danny Ayello is uh does a great job. I think. I mean, I he's I don't see him in enough then. Well, not now, definitely. Is he passed away? He passed away. Oh, yeah. Two years ago, yeah. But even I seem to remember like he retired fairly early-ish. Did he retire to just not just not get roles? Or he decided to I mean, of course, do the right thing and but many other roles, but professional. Um He just, you know, I just expected to see him a lot more and he just wasn't around as much in his heyday. No, you're you're it's true, you're right. I mean, he was in Moonstruck, which Yeah. He did a really great job. Very good actor. Um James Spader's always the bad guy. He keeps that he keeps that tradition going. He plays that, yeah, so well. The 80s and he dragged. Always, yeah. I was trying to think, like literally when I was watching that, as I mentioned earlier, the trope of like the cold, callous killing machine, uh hitman. We kind of saw that in last week's too with the nice guys with the uh gun boy. You know, the guy that can't miss with the gun, you know, hand to hand. And anyway, um, yeah, I was watching James Spader and I'm like, has he ever been a good guy? Has he ever been funny or any? I mean, I was really racking my brain, like he's always the dick. I know movies. That's that's true, you know. I mean he was Ultron, right? He's never, he's never the good guy.

SPEAKER_02 23:22

I you you know, you're right. I'm I'm trying to think myself as we sit here.

SPEAKER_03 23:25

I'm like it's like that guy's been around for a while, so well, I guess he was in the office, I guess. I didn't always say that.

SPEAKER_02 23:30

Well, he played that one romantic movie with Susan Sarandi.

SPEAKER_03 23:33

White Palace. I didn't see that one.

SPEAKER_02 23:35

Okay. Well, he's like I know he's younger, he has to have something. He was the younger guy, older woman, before they called him cougars back then. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 23:42

But I mean, he's tried, but whenever you see James Spader, you know he's a dick. You could you just got that. He's the villain. You already got that you know settled for you. As soon as you see him on screen.

SPEAKER_02 23:51

Wasn't he in the office briefly at the end of the that's what I was saying.

SPEAKER_03 23:54

I never watched that show, but I thought he was that's a comedy, so he had to be still kind of played.

SPEAKER_02 23:59

He was a bad guy in that kind of a smarmy kind of a yeah, you're not wrong. But poor James Spader. I think he's probably really nice. I think he's done quite well playing a dick. Yeah. For a you know, so I don't think he's hurting.

SPEAKER_03 24:15

But and who else got Terry Hatcher, uh who's now doing stand-up. Oh, is she? That's me making the uh I didn't know that. Actually, she's emoji. That's another chip. I don't know if she just like fell off with her career and she's just trying something new, or if she legitimately always wanted to do comedy. No, she is not funny.

SPEAKER_02 24:38

I think with her, she has such a reputation for being not a nice person. Oh I'm not gonna see that. She isn't.

SPEAKER_03 24:44

I've heard show that she was on Desperate Housewives. There you go. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:48

Uh very much a diva, very much. I mean, I know she's gone through stuff. I think she was sexually abused and raped when she was younger. An uncle or something. So I mean, I'm sure that but you don't have to be a total witch, just but she is not a nice person. Okay. Is what I get. Um This is a second-tier movie with these actors. I'm not trying to knock anybody, I think they all did a great job.

SPEAKER_03 25:13

Sure. That's what I was illustrating. Yeah. You still got a good solid cast.

SPEAKER_02 25:16

Yeah. Uh Eric Stoltz, I mean I could go on with him. He was the original uh Marty McFly, but he got fired. Um and his care in his career, honestly, has kind of been he's been more of that flat.

SPEAKER_03 25:32

I feel like I heard something about him being in uh directing or something like that. Like he got through a few years and said it went on the other side of the camera and then maybe did or did not have success with that.

SPEAKER_02 25:44

Yeah, if he did, he might have directed one, but I haven't he hasn't really launched he's more of your supporting and not against anything against Eric, and he was in Pulp Fiction. He played the heroin dealer. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:57

So um He's been in a couple of movies that we've done. Is it Fast Times, right?

SPEAKER_01 26:02

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:02

He's one of the f the buddies, yeah. Yeah, so he's he's had a pretty decent career.

SPEAKER_02 26:07

Yeah. Uh but again, I'm not trying to knock anybody here. They all did a great job. Yeah. I mean, obviously. Out of all of them, I mean, Charlie's Throne rose to be, you know, huge. Yeah. Um I like Glenn Hedley. I've seen her in different things. I think she's a unfortunately she passed away too. Uh Jeff does a great job. And you know, that's another guy you would think. I mean, I can't complain about his career. He's had a good career. Yeah, I was gonna say it's just interesting. But yeah, it's uh very much uh of its time. And yeah, I'll say like I'll repeat myself. It did it does copy, it does lend itself from other movies to not the same extent. But I still, like I said, it's a fun movie. I think if you're on a Saturday, just a nice afternoon, maybe even that night, just pop in. I think you'll have a good time. Just it is a fun movie. Yes. There are funny moments. Um the cast is great, they all play well together. Yeah. There are surprises. And like we said, we're purposely being vague about the plot because we do want you to experience it for yourself. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:18

Because I think it's it's better for me, because like I I had never even really literally heard of this movie until you mentioned it. Wow. And so when I put it on, I'm looking at it through fresh eyes and I'm like, wow, what's where's that going? Where's oh, that's weird. And then and I'm like just like following along. I had no preconceived ideas of what it was about. I think I better read the synopsis somewhere, but I usually try to just not have any information going in so I can just be surprised. Right, that's that's what I like, right. I just want to have people let people have that same experience, you know.

SPEAKER_02 27:47

I I there is a a real quick one, yeah, because I know we're there is a scene like you were talking about the director, Paul Mazurski, and he re runs runs into Austin Pedle Pendleton, who's another you've seen him around, actually. But they're on a field, um Mazurski plays Teddy Peppers, who was a famous writer-director. Yeah. And now he's crashed out. So now he's rewrite, he has his suicidal ideations. And but he runs into Austin Pendleton, who plays Ralph Kruppy, and he's like, Hey, weren't you and he kind of just pokes up? Oh, so like Austin obviously or has been an or Ralph, I'm sorry, has been an actor, and now he's like a regular guy until they get their gig, right? He's like oh, I guess you I'll see you over at the uh unemployment line. And it's like, oh I mean, it's like you know, because in music, right? How many musicians try to make it and we all have to have a living?

SPEAKER_03 28:45

Yeah. I um I did a session with uh the drummer from Hart who I want to say they had just been abducted to the Rock and Mall Hall of Fame, and I didn't really put two and two together. Like I'm a nobody from Fairfield, California, and I'm I mean, I'm working with you with this guy who's literally in the Hall of Fame now. Wow. And he was like uh just a regular just pulled up at a regular ass accord or whatever. He's you know, he's not like I don't know, in my head, I just thought like once you get to that level, you're set, but not really that way, and especially for a band like that who really had their heyday 20, 30 years-ish earlier.

SPEAKER_01 29:22

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:22

So at that point, they had been nominated, but they weren't tearing it up in on the charts right then. So he was like, you know, oh yeah, yeah, I borrow some money to go and get like something to drink. I'm like, borrow money from me? Like, what I'm you're the Hall of Famer. Exactly. You give me money. Where's Ann Wilson at? What the fuck's going on? Right, where's Nancy? Yeah, Nancy. It was kind of like, oh, I just it kind of was like, oh shit, that's that's the job you have to do forever. Right. Because most of the careers like this, acting, music, stuff like that, they're like finite. You have your heyday and then you're done. Like that guy, you know, I'll see you in the unemployment line. It's like, yeah, after that.

SPEAKER_02 29:58

And I think, and real quick, it puts into perspective, you know, because we always see these A-listers who make gobs of money, right? They're set for beyond life. Right. But you get the regular guy who makes that one hit, right? And it can make, you know, let's say you do bring in a million dollars, but a million dollars over the course of your life, right? It's not gonna go long. Less the tax and the agent or whatever. So even if it is a million dollars at a certain age, you still have life to go through. Right. You still have bills, and I mean you're like you said, you're still not gonna be living in the high life. You live maybe comfortably for a little while. Yeah. But that's why they keep hospital bills, anything you can come up, you know. So you you gotta keep striking and keep going.

SPEAKER_03 30:40

Yeah. You know? It's tough. It's not like uh, you know, you don't uh I mean, I I guess I think that it's a little unrealistic to think that you would have any job where you would hit this home run and you're like, okay, now I'm set for life, and now I can just coast. Like every job, every person works for 30, 40 years and then retires. Right. So this idea that you're gonna do something for a couple years, hit this home run, be like, okay, that's it. Right. It's like that's if you do, that's you're very lucky, but you can't expect it. So take it from the drummer from heart. He owes me money. You owe me money.

SPEAKER_02 31:17

But yeah, that's really going back to the movie. I think it's a fun ride. It's it's fun to just watch something if you've never watched it. Yeah. And this is when, again, I would go watch of tons of movies. I I miss those days. Maybe I'll try to get back into that, but it's just so hard today. But yes.

SPEAKER_03 31:35

But to be fair, there was better quality, if you ask me. Back then.

SPEAKER_02 31:39

It's funny you said that. I was just thinking that too. Like, I'm looking at to what go watch something, I'm like, Yes.

SPEAKER_03 31:47

Uh oh. There's been a couple times I was like, I need to get out of the house. Let me see what's playing. Uh nothing. Hmm. Let me see what's playing in Vallejo. Uh nothing. Hmm.

SPEAKER_02 31:56

I mean, I'll give Regal credit because they're playing older movies. Yeah. A new one. And I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_03 32:02

Yeah. But going back to what's fresh, nothing. I shouldn't say nothing. There's a lot of kids' movies a lot of times.

SPEAKER_02 32:09

Yeah, but just um that's about it, I guess. You think in this age we're at, we would have so much more, and we have so much less.

SPEAKER_03 32:18

Yeah. I mean, that's a whole other podcast. But anyway, uh, just I just, you know, I went with you on some of those, you know. I hey Dave, what are we watching? Oh, some movie. Okay, I don't give a shit. Whatever. It's probably gonna be decent. So in nowadays, you can't do that. You can't just go into a movie theater and go, Oh, yeah, this is probably gonna be good. It's probably not gonna be good.

SPEAKER_02 32:35

And that's a good point you made, because yeah, back then this was a fun movie even then. And even now to go back and rewatch it, it's still fun.

SPEAKER_03 32:42

You want to see a movie where you got Charlize Theron and James Spader? Yeah, you're you're gonna be doing pretty good.

SPEAKER_02 32:47

Yeah. Um and Daniel Hale, yeah. Yes. So, but yeah, definitely I think it's a fun watch. It's you won't you you won't regret it.

SPEAKER_03 32:56

Yeah. I agree. It's a good movie.

SPEAKER_02 32:59

Oh, by the way, I gotta cause Oh, uh budget and all that? Well, no, budget it just said it made eleven. I don't know how much it cost to make. Oh.

SPEAKER_03 33:08

Eleven? That's not very good. No. What I was gonna get at was where to watch it, because I don't wanna probably lost money if that's all it made. Yeah. Because yeah, all those people, Danny Ayello and all them, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:20

Probably uh I'm gonna guess that budget might have been let's say ten million, so right. Yeah, it didn't make much. So if you've wanted to watch this, it's on Paramount Plus. I don't know what what did you watch it on?

SPEAKER_03 33:35

Well, I'm glad you asked that, David. Thank you. Uh it's on Prime too. I went to see it on Amazon. Yes, it is on there. And uh there was an MGM Plus promotion for seven days. It's the second time they've had that. Uh huh. And I'm going to drop that uh MGM Plus again. Right. Just like I did last time when I think I watched uh Smoking the Bandit was the other one I watched at MGM. MGM is terrible, but um anyway, it's free, so it's great.

SPEAKER_02 34:05

It's also on Pluto TV, which is a free.

SPEAKER_03 34:07

That makes sense. Probably with a little bit of ads.

SPEAKER_02 34:09

Um there's a lot of ads, but I mean if you Pluto's good. At least you get to watch it. Yes. And you don't have to pay for it. But yeah, it's on Amazon MGM Plus, like you said, you could subscribe for the seven days, watch the movie, and then alright, I'm dropping it.

SPEAKER_03 34:23

Then drop it. Yes, that's right. It can't do nothing to you. Love this country.

SPEAKER_02 34:28

But um that's all I really have for that. Like I said, it's uh a thumbs up from me.

SPEAKER_03 34:33

Yes, I agree. Any uh reviews or anything, or other people It got mixed.

SPEAKER_02 34:40

Mixed.

SPEAKER_03 34:40

That seems about right.

SPEAKER_02 34:42

The film was given mixed reviews from critics with a 62% rating on rotten tomato, you know, I don't care about rotten tomatoes. Based on 58 reviews, the site's critics consensus reads a labyrinth thriller with a host of memorable characters. Two days in the valley is an uneven but intriguing thriller, black comedy. Yeah. That's about right.

SPEAKER_03 35:01

I don't know about a uneven, I think it's pretty good pacing.

SPEAKER_02 35:04

I'll disagree with that, but yeah. I mean, I think it's a good movie. Yeah. Didn't say great. I do think it's good, I think it's worth your time. Yes, I agree. Oh. Your boy, Roger Every, gave it three out of four stars.

SPEAKER_03 35:16

See, there you go. He's always right.

SPEAKER_02 35:20

Saying he's his ratings saying that it looks like a crime movie, but crime is the medium, not the message. Wow, that makes no sense.

SPEAKER_03 35:27

Right. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 35:30

That's what all I have for that one.

SPEAKER_03 35:32

So

Jackie Brown

SPEAKER_03 35:33

it's your well, speaking of uneven, uh, my movie is uh I picked as Jackie Brown uh by Quentin Tarantino. I I'm kidding about the unevenness, it's a great movie. But uh the reason I brought that up is because I watched this thing with um what I thought was the most one of the most interesting things I've seen in a while, and you would have appreciated this. I'll I'll maybe I'll maybe I'll send you the video. But they had this round table of critics and they made them sit and talk about Jackie Brown, and then Quentin Tarantino was in the room with them. So they had to get so the moderator's like, oh, you whatever from the New York Times or whatever, read your whatever what you said about Jackie Brown. You know, Quentin Tarantino's right here, and he's just like eyeballing him like you're you know I would have said it.

SPEAKER_02 36:14

I mean, yeah, that's your right. It's I mean, if you're gonna put something out in the world, right? Yeah, Quentin Tarantino, you mean yes? Right, you gotta be able to take the hits. Yes, I agree with that completely. No one's gonna obviously bow to the great Quentin Tarantino because I'm sorry. Yeah, it's like anything, musicians, everybody who puts art, even art, yes, literally.

SPEAKER_03 36:34

We have our right to our opinion. Right. I would say I I agree with you. Um the only thing I would add to that in like on the level of two things can you know be seemingly opposite but true at the same time, true, is that sometimes critics go a little far in the things they say because they're not face to face with the person. And people do that in general, they say shit on the internet or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 36:56

It's uncomfortable to sit someone like you know, and he's looking right at you and like I didn't really care for that movie.

SPEAKER_03 37:02

Right. Like if you said like what you just said, which is why I brought that uneven, uneven, but whatever. Right. That's a fair. I mean, I could see that in front of anybody, you know. You know, uh, oh yeah, I mean, maybe you could shorten it down a little bit or whatever, something like that. That's no problem. But some some of the critics get a little personal, and then it's like, well, let me see you say that to the person's face, and then they're not gonna do it. So it was funny, I guess I brought that up because there was one lady who was like, she was just like, just sweat, just like, and they're and they're trying to like, I don't know what she said, but apparently it was like they guess her and Quentin had like um a back and forth in the press or something. She said something about it in his movies. This is after Pulp Fiction, by the way, so he was like on top of the world, right? And she was like, I didn't care for it, or blah blah, whatever she said, something inflammatory, and he was going back and forth with her, and now they're in the same room together, right? And the guy in the moderator's like, so you want to read what she's like, she's just like shh drip and sweat, and she's like, Well, I just don't think it's appropriate to what'd she say? It's not appropriate to say it with the person present. And she had a ration offer, it didn't really make sense. Like, why would that not be appropriate? I mean, if you if it's true, well, it's just not right, you know, you know, you don't want to be biased or whatever. Like, whatever.

SPEAKER_02 38:14

But it's you're watching a film, I mean, it's subjective because it's your opinion. It doesn't mean that you're gonna agree with the consensus, and there's nothing wrong with that.

SPEAKER_03 38:22

Right. Like, if I say, here's a song, Dave, what do you think about it? And you go, well, if I can't say something nice, I don't want to say anything, that's not you're just kissing my ass. You're not helping me at all. Right. But I but I realize I'm not naive. I realize there are people that I want you to say, I want you to say something nice, and if you say something bad, I'm gonna get defensive. Of course. So I get that part, but it's just kind of funny to see the the look on everyone's face in Tarantino. He was actually, to be fair, and again, he was actually very measured in his response. He was very like, okay, you know, the only thing he said was that people criticize Jackie Brown for being 150 something minutes, and he says, I get where you're coming from with that criticism that it's too long or whatever. What, you don't think it's too long? I don't think so. Yeah, I think it goes. But a lot of critics did say that that it was too long. Okay. Um, but movies were all whatever.

SPEAKER_01 39:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:16

Movies have been two hours, it's not a big deal. There are movies that are three hours, it's not a big deal. But anyway, he said, I wish people would have talked about the quality of what I was saying and not just that it's so long.

SPEAKER_01 39:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:26

You know, like that's all you doesn't feel long, is what he's saying. Like, I he said I I laid it out. First of all, it's based on our book. Yeah. So he laid it out based on the way the book is. Sure. And so he laid it out, he felt like he did a good job. I agree with him.

SPEAKER_02 39:40

I concur with him.

SPEAKER_03 39:41

Yeah. So I don't feel like, oh God, this movie is so goddamn long.

SPEAKER_02 39:45

Yeah. I didn't feel that at all. I mean, I was you're so engrossed in it. That's what's so nice about that. I mean, I'll give him credit for that. Most of his movies are engrossing, and you don't feel like, oh Jesus.

SPEAKER_03 39:56

Yeah, is this God it's so long? No. But that because that I think he was arguing with that is a separate criticism. That's a criticism that you don't like my movie. Because if you're looking at your watch, that means I didn't do my job. Right. The movie's bad, and then say that, but don't say it's too long.

SPEAKER_02 40:13

Right. But yeah, that's interesting. I mean, that would be to see a round table, and there's the director just like eyeballing.

SPEAKER_03 40:19

Just like this, the moderator, Quentin Tarantino, and like four or five critics, like major critics, you know, and they're all like, oh, Mr. Quentin, you're Mr. Tarantino, they're like kissing his ass and shit. It's like, hmm, okay. Interesting. I just thought it was interesting to have that in the same room. Because it's it is kind of in the age of the internet, people say a lot of shit on, you know, they get, you know, the keyboard muscles or whatever, and keyboard say shit. Keyboard warriors could they can hide that they would never say to your face, and it's kind of nice to say, okay, here he is. Right. What was that you said about his movie? And they all, every one of them was like walked it back. Whatever they said negative, they walked it back a little bit. And the one lady just wouldn't even she wouldn't even say anything. She's like, I this is very inappropriate, blah, very inappropriate. This is like very funny, very funny. Anyway, Jackie Brown, I picked Jackie Brown because I personally think it's a really good movie. Um, Quentin Tarantino gets a lot of flack, a lot of it well deserved, because he says some stupid shit a lot of times. Exactly. Uh, but that said, him as a director, I think he's he he thinks he's one of the best directors alive. I would I don't know about go that far, but I do agree that he is a very talented director, and this is one of his better works. I say Jackie Brown is right up there with Pulp Fiction.

SPEAKER_02 41:31

Thank you, because that's what I was gonna say. Yeah, it's right on par with it.

SPEAKER_03 41:34

Yeah, and doesn't didn't really get the the the push or the promotion, not promotion. Doesn't have the uh No, you're right.

SPEAKER_02 41:42

It didn't get the same kind of uh reaction, I guess is what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_03 41:45

People say it's okay, they say it's too long. It's like but a lot of movies are long, so no one ever I mean, I don't know. They don't say that about this other movie necessarily.

SPEAKER_02 41:54

Right. I don't I don't understand how it it gets that criticism because I didn't find that at all. I think it it flows very nicely. Yeah. All of it flows. I mean, the way it's put together, the characters, they all come together. I mean Yeah. I don't like I said, I don't understand the criticism. The the length never bothered me. Yeah. Actually, I'll give a little side note here because me and Anna went to go watch it at the Napa Uptown.

SPEAKER_03 42:20

Not recently.

SPEAKER_02 42:20

No, that was when it first came out. Yeah, okay. And the heating wasn't working, it was freezing that theater. Oh. And so 150 minutes I sat there and roughed it. But I mean, that's how good the movie was. I'm not again, I'm not should we have left? Sure, but I wanted to see it and it I'm not gonna say it was freezing.

SPEAKER_03 42:42

Jackie Brown's adapted from the Elmer Leonard novel Rum Punch, as David said. Uh the only difference, well, the main difference is that the main character was named Jackie Burke or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 42:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 42:54

I'd never read the book. She was a a white lady in the in the original story, and they and Quentin Tarantino changed her to a black woman because he wanted to work with uh Pam Greer. Pam Greer, and hence the name Jackie Brown's homage to Foxy Brown, which is one of her uh most notable roles. As it turns out, this is one of the Elmore Leonard has gone on record saying this is one of his favorite adaptations of his work. I think he said this is a lot, there's been a lot of his out of sight and he said this is the best one, too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:25

I like out of sight, that's a great movie. But that's for another time.

SPEAKER_03 43:28

Yeah. Um as it turns out, um, the producer Lawrence Bender stated that changing Jackie to a middle-aged black woman makes the character more vulnerable, which I do probably one of the things that I like about the movie because there's that tension, there's that sense of like she's caught between law enforcement, who have her caught dead to rights, and the street people she kind of grew up with, or go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 43:51

Oh no, I didn't mean to cut you off. I was gonna interject on that point, 'cause there's that scene, and yeah, we're jumping ahead here, but when they do have her in a questionnaire, right? What of a 44-year-old black woman having to start all over, yeah. And it's and that's what's makes this so profound, the movie, because you and I, how would you feel? You know, and like they said, you just got this airline.

SPEAKER_03 44:12

You're making your little twenty thousand dollars.

SPEAKER_02 44:14

It was it wasn't even twenty, it was like sixteen.

SPEAKER_03 44:16

Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_02 44:16

They're like sixteen thousand. I mean, your little shitty job. Yeah, you know, and then and then you can see her face. It's not because of what they're saying, but she realized they're right. You know, I barely even got that. That's the crappiest airline there is, right? You know? But that's that's what it makes.

SPEAKER_03 44:33

So they have her by the balls.

SPEAKER_02 44:34

The vulnerability of it, yes. It's so it really translates here. Yeah. Because even as a movie watcher, I mean, granted there might be younger people, but trust me, as older guys, that hits home. Yes, definitely. I mean, I've been fortunate in my working life that didn't happen, but it it could be scary. Yeah. When you've got people depending on you, right? Even though she was single, she still depends on herself. She's gotta make a living.

SPEAKER_03 44:59

She's got bills, yeah. Yeah, yeah. She's still gotta live in you know, Los Angeles, for God's sake. That's not cheap. Yeah. Even back then. Yeah. Um, I'm sorry. No, no, good point. Um I I didn't know that the character was changed until recently. And now that I know, I mean, that's one of those things where I will give Quentin Tarantito credit because um as much as I feel like he's a little bit of a culture culture, like insofar as like he's said the story about how Hamger came to his office to addition, not addition, but just to talk about the role. And he said there were her posters were all over the office. And she was like, Oh, you know, you know, you put those up to kind of butter me up. He's no, I was thinking about taking them down as in I always have them up. It's like maybe he's sincere. I don't know. It's hard to tell whether he's sincere about that stuff. It seems it seems like I agree with her. I don't know. Right. I feel like what she's doing too much.

SPEAKER_02 45:58

I feel like she's right. Oh, you know, you didn't have to.

SPEAKER_03 46:00

You put those up to kind of like me on the fan.

SPEAKER_02 46:03

And it's like the opposite. He's the critic on the side the table now. Go, oh no, no, I didn't do that. Right. Right? But when really, hey, she's coming in, I need this, this. He's got his people like, oh now, now.

SPEAKER_03 46:13

Right.

SPEAKER_02 46:13

And then, oh no, I was actually gonna do the uh cut.

SPEAKER_03 46:15

They're always up. These are always, but then on the other hand, but then it's like he he does use a lot of these references to older films. So you clearly see that he's influenced by those films and he's almost trying to recreate them in a way in large in many ways. But it's kind of like I I don't know whether he's sincere about that or if it's like an affectation.

SPEAKER_02 46:33

There you go, right?

SPEAKER_03 46:34

I don't know. Anyway, it's 1997, it's an American crime film written and directed by Quentin Tarantino, uh, although it is adapted technically. Yes, it stars uh Pam Greer, uh Samuel L. Jackson, an amazing role. Oh, yeah, god, he's so good. Just the menace that comes off of him, like, ugh, that dude is dangerous. Right. Robert Forster, who I did not know prior to this movie, I guess he's had had a career in the 70s or whatever. Right.

SPEAKER_02 47:02

And I didn't, I'm with you. I didn't when I first saw this movie.

SPEAKER_03 47:05

I mean, he was he was amazing. He was the other one that Tarantino was saying, I gotta get that guy in my field. I'm gonna make something for him. And he did. And I'm like, who is he? I knew Pam Greer, but I'm like, Forrester? Okay, and I guess there's one other guy, Sid Haig, who I think. Yeah, he played the judge.

SPEAKER_02 47:19

Yeah, I never he yeah, I've seen Sid Haig.

SPEAKER_03 47:22

I know who he is, but uh anyway, yeah, he had to get those three people. And then people like, well, why are you getting these older like is that your thing? Like to get older actors and put them and try to make them stars or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 47:35

Kind of redirect their career again.

SPEAKER_03 47:36

Was that yeah?

SPEAKER_02 47:37

Yeah, he does, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:39

But that's another seeming affectation. It is kind of like, well because they were asking, like, in 1987, who was hot then? And I forgot they said Ben Silver or something like that, whatever. But he was like, Well, I picked the best person for the job, and it just so happened that they were from a bygone era or whatever. And it's like, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_02 48:00

Well, going back to what you were saying, when you watch him in interviews, he does refer to a lot of older movies. I used to go to drive and he'd watch these old.

SPEAKER_03 48:07

He does seem to have an encyclopedic knowledge knowledge of him.

SPEAKER_02 48:10

He does, you know, and I can't deny that. I mean, right. And I give him credit because I've also seen interviews when he writes, he doesn't think of oh, this actor or that. He just writes from what comes out of him, right? And I think he writes as himself. He's you know, not literally, but when you're writing a role, you you're playing that role as you're writing.

SPEAKER_03 48:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:32

He doesn't see like, oh, Leo here or Sam there. It's just he's putting it out.

SPEAKER_03 48:37

Right.

SPEAKER_02 48:37

And when you're just flowing, you know, and then when you come to the stage now when you've written a screenplay and now it's you've done how many different drafts, and now you're like, okay, then they come an audition. Maybe you might start seeing, well, maybe.

SPEAKER_03 48:51

Yeah. I don't mean to be long-winded on that, but no, you're not, you're not not at all. I mean, and to be fair, with him choosing these older actors, I mean, it's not like they've forgotten how to act. No, that's right. It's like um you're basically saying, well, when someone's washed up, you just leave them washed up. You don't go back and get them again. Why would you not? Why not why not?

SPEAKER_01 49:11

Right.

SPEAKER_03 49:12

Like, what's wrong with like give them a shot because you enjoyed their movies when you were growing up or whatever? Right. Uh anyway, uh, going on with the cast uh Bridget Fonda who has not been in a lot of stuff.

SPEAKER_02 49:21

Yeah. Well, she she this was yeah, she was still at the heir to the Fonda throne or whatever. She was a good actress. But something happened, I think, after this movie, she hurt her back. Oh. Um, so that kind of put a crimp in her career, and then she married Danny Elfman, too. Oh, okay. And she basically retired. But I think the back injury I had read, I can't remember what movie it was, but she hurt her back. So that really took her out of acting, but then a marriage and having kids.

SPEAKER_03 49:50

Right. Um, Michael Keaton's also in it, he's amazing. Yes. Uh always, like always hits it out of the park when he's on screen. And of course, speaking of which, Robert De Niro, who at that time to me was his record was unblemished. He's had he's done some stinkers since then, but oh yeah, now but back then in '97, oh have and have him in that role. Thank you. You read my mind, right?

SPEAKER_02 50:13

Oh because he plays such a slump.

SPEAKER_03 50:15

Yeah. Right? Guy straight out of jail, nothing going on for him. Yeah, I was like, oh my God, that's so perfect. They have him in that role.

SPEAKER_02 50:22

And you know, for him to even, I mean, to play that role, I mean, that just yeah, to have that bravado of acting, right? Because he did. I mean, he taking a second-tier role, he's not the main actor, he's not on the first name of the it's right, you know, Sam. He's actually Pam, but yeah. He's still, and he does the role really well. He plays that character. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 50:44

There's the with the Mary Wells ladies. Oh my god. And he's got the stupid look on his face. He's like high or something. He's all excited, you know. He's like, oh, and higher drunk, just like someone who just got out of jail, you know.

SPEAKER_02 50:59

They're just they're gonna enjoy whatever things they didn't get to enjoy. Right. That's not true, but anyway, that's a whole nother thing, kids.

SPEAKER_03 51:07

They're gonna enjoy him outside of jail, let's put it that way.

SPEAKER_02 51:10

Right. They're not having to like look around, oh, is he coming? Yeah, they can freely do it. Yes. You know who also I give credit was uh Tommy Tiny Lister.

SPEAKER_03 51:19

Wow. Read my mind. I actually had him listed uh later on.

SPEAKER_02 51:23

Because another guy, I mean, when you see him, right, and he plays Winston, yeah. I mean, he didn't get a lot, but it just he does bring something to the role. You know?

SPEAKER_03 51:33

He's the thing I like about it, he's not a freak. Right. He just plays like, I'm just an employee in a bail bonds, you know. I happen to be a big dude or whatever, but I'm you know, I'm also intelligent. I'm not like a thug or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 51:44

I'm thinking that both of them were probably former cops. Max Max Cherry and Winston.

SPEAKER_03 51:51

Oh oh in the movie, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:53

No, no, no, not in real life, but I mean the characters. Yeah, yeah. Because that's what happened. I mean, you can tell Max, he knows so much, right? And he probably just got burned out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:01

And now he's doing this because he's not having to I mean there are certain things he still has to carry a gun and all that, but he's adjacent to the field, but not doesn't have all that pressure or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 52:11

Right.

SPEAKER_03 52:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:12

But Robert Forster, yeah, jumping ahead. He does play Max Cherry, the great.

SPEAKER_03 52:16

Bill Bondsman. Yes. Oh, well, I'll speak into that. The plot uh Jackie Brown smuggles money from Mexico to the US using her job as a flight attendant as a cover. Uh she's smuggling it for um gun runner Ordell. What's his name? Robbie, right? Ordell Robbie. Um she's smuggling money into the country for him that he's used to um sells guns or whatever.

unknown 52:37

Right.

SPEAKER_03 52:37

ATF gets wind of the smuggling, which through a detail which I didn't catch, I guess uh Beaumont ratted him out or something like that. Right. So they knew that Jackie was coming in with the money so they catch her.

SPEAKER_01 52:49

Right.

SPEAKER_03 52:49

Um Well, the money's not the bad part, it's the the drugs. Yeah. Well, I mean, she's also a black woman, so she, you know, they were ready to throw her in jail.

SPEAKER_02 52:58

Well, because Beaumont spilled it.

SPEAKER_03 53:00

Yeah. And they were looking. So it's like, well, we can you can give us Ordell or we can just throw you in jail. Either way, it's you know, right.

SPEAKER_02 53:06

She well, she I'll give her credit in the first interrogation. She played dumb. Yeah. She said she didn't say, Oh, I didn't she knew him right away. She just I mean, I give her credit. She stonewalled him, you know.

SPEAKER_03 53:16

She's like, Yeah. Uh so Jackie's caught between the law and Ordell, who's already murdered one person. She knows that, I think, or she should be aware of it at some point.

SPEAKER_01 53:26

Well, we see that happen.

SPEAKER_03 53:28

That is a great scene. I'll talk about that a second. Jackie devises a plan basically to set up a sting wherein the ATF will get um Ordell and she'll try to escape with this a large amount of money that he's trying to get.

SPEAKER_02 53:40

Well, he's trying to bring in because he he Ordell's Ordell is saying that he wants to get out. Right. He'll get five. One last score type of thing. Right. He has 500 here, but he can get another 500. He can get a million dollars, basically, is what he's saying. And but he has his lady bringing in. But his group of ladies.

SPEAKER_03 53:59

He's got he's got it going on.

SPEAKER_02 54:01

He's a true player from day one.

SPEAKER_03 54:04

What's the name? Sharonda or something like that? Yeah, yeah. Simone. Oh, yeah, he's got them all. In the Bridget Fonda, of course. Melanie, that's right. Melanie, that's right. My little surfer girl.

SPEAKER_02 54:14

Got to rough her up, you know, slap her out.

SPEAKER_03 54:18

I heard that one critic, and I can't remember who, someone said that scene with Beaumont and Ordell. Beaumont's played by Christmas Tucker. Um, that scene with them is better than a lot of movies that they've seen in general. Just that scene alone, the way it's filmed and the dialogue, and and I really kind of agree with that. I mean, it's it's one of the best scenes that I've seen in a movie in ever, really. Um, just the way it's especially the camera work. So I won't I don't want to give this all away if you haven't seen the movie, although it's super old, so I don't know why you haven't seen it. So to be fair, I won't give it away, but let's just say the camera work on that alone is amazing. It's a crane shot. Um, when Beaumont and Ordell talking behind the car.

SPEAKER_01 55:06

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:06

And then there's I won't say what happens, but something happens, but it's a crane, it's like a single shot, I think, if I remember correctly. Yes. Kind of goes to close-up of those two, and then all of a sudden it's zooms back to you see the whole neighborhood, and you can see something happen off in the distance, and you kind of hear it a little bit, and then you kind of know what happens, but just that whole the way it's shot, and there's also a scene where they go in tight on Samuel Jackson's face where he's thinking about what he has to do, and then they pull out just that scene alone was amazing.

SPEAKER_02 55:36

I'm gonna inter interject here because on the while watched on my library, and there's a thing from Siskel Niebert on and I was watching that little review and they were praising it, you know, how and Jane said something that's true. He goes, obviously Quentin wrote writes what he knows, right?

SPEAKER_00 55:55

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 55:55

Meaning that he's probably seen people and they discussed, you know, what I'm some of them getting out of jail or where wherever he was around, he was able to mentally lock it up in the safe so he could write it later.

SPEAKER_03 56:06

Yeah, in detail.

SPEAKER_02 56:07

Right.

SPEAKER_03 56:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:08

And that scene, so he knew of people and they'd probably explain like that. I want to say probably verbatim, oh yeah, and that so he, like I said, was able to even write how they speak and all that.

SPEAKER_03 56:20

Yeah. So and whatever he's picked up from movies, too, I'm sure that's interspersed in there too. Especially like the like I guess what I was thinking when I I'm not a director, so I don't I wouldn't know, but maybe it's easier if you are in that field or whatever. But for me, just thinking about the camera work. Oh, yeah. Like, how do you know how do you know in your head when you're writing, okay, I want the camera to do this, this, this, and this. I would just think, I just want to know what this person says of that person. That's all I would get. You know, I'd I'd be more like Kevin Smith type of thing, where it's like there's a stand, there's a camera here and that's it. And you guys just chit-chat.

SPEAKER_02 56:52

And I'm thinking he learned a lot, obviously, from Reservoir Dogs graduating to Pulp Fiction. But what I was gonna say is that that's your director of photography, that's your cinematographer. I think that helps. I think you're right as a writer, yeah, you visualize this, but then a cinematograph goes, Well, what if we took this crane, you know, and you still convey. But I'm thinking that's where you have such great, that's why they get nominated, these cinematographers, because of all that.

SPEAKER_03 57:20

They're unheralded because of bringing that. Because we just take it for granted how movies look, but it could be pretty.

SPEAKER_02 57:28

It's a collaborative effort, I think, between the cinematographer and a director. Yeah. Right? Because the cinematographer, director is gonna be, yeah, he has to say action, and he's listening for you to recite his words and all that, right? Well, I'm saying that that's the writer because Quentin, I'm just he is both, so yeah.

SPEAKER_03 57:47

And yeah, and you're right, you're absolutely right. I mean, you don't want to downplay the you know, the input uh from you know the director of photography or cinematographer or whatever. There's certain they can make or break a scene, and there's all kinds of examples of of camera techniques I I know of that uh either signify that this is a director's signature move. That that's their thing, like with with that shot that Spike Lee always does, or the person's kind of zooming toward the camera or whatever on a dolly or something.

SPEAKER_02 58:18

It's funny you said that. We just read my mind because Quentin borrowed that. Oh, did he?

SPEAKER_03 58:22

I didn't see it in the Jackie when she's on the because they haven't the conveyor belt with the weird colors. Yeah. They said that was from an because I watched on Amazon because they have the little uh trivia thing, and I saw it's from some movie, and I was like, yeah, that makes sense. It's probably he'd probably take that verbatim. Was it the graduate? It's one of them.

SPEAKER_02 58:39

Yeah, that's yeah, that's about right. Yeah. Cause this wasn't a total black exploitation film at all. There's hints of it, but it's just a great film.

SPEAKER_03 58:46

Yeah. Um he says that he wasn't trying to make one, so there you go.

SPEAKER_02 58:50

Right. But uh I kind of see that was kind of reminding me of Spike because there's a outtake of her uh Pam Greer on it, and she's and they have a music and she's doing a surgery. It's hilarious. Right. It was it was nice. That was a nice little touch.

SPEAKER_03 59:06

I mean, but yeah. Anyway, uh, we've got to wrap this up at some point. I'm sorry I ramble about that. But both rambling about that. That's the plot. Um, you know, this uh it's a it's a caper kind of you know, mystery. It's it is 150 something minutes, but uh it goes by like nothing. This is one of the best movies I've seen. It's on my top 40 list, I'd say, maybe top 20. Like I said, I've seen it multiple times.

SPEAKER_02 59:28

We both agree. It's right on par with pulp fiction. I think I think it's very underrated. It doesn't get enough accolades that it should have got. Yes. That's the word I was looking for earlier. Because I don't know how it didn't do. I mean, it it was budgeted at 12, it made seven or seventy-four. I mean, that's a decent That's very good. I mean, that's what, six times the budget.

SPEAKER_03 59:47

I don't know. I guess it's hard to follow pulp fiction. Did it kind of level out for his career after this? What was after this? Do you remember?

SPEAKER_01 59:53

Uh he did the kill bills. Kill bills.

SPEAKER_03 59:56

And so those are yeah, he did kill bills. Did fairly well, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:00

Yeah, those did. I mean, he's his trajectory's he's done well. I mean, he's not like billions of dollars.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:06

He's never done a flop per se. Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:08

Well, death trap, but that was part of the Grindhouse movie. Right. But anyway, death proof, I'm sorry. Um but yeah, I don't know how, like I said, it should have got more accolades than it did. It's to me right there with Pulp Fiction.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:26

Speaking of which, uh Pam Greer and Samuel L. Jackson were both nominated for Best Actor and Actress in the Golden Globes. They did not win. Um, Jack Nicholson and Helen Hunt for As Good as It Gets. As Good As It Gets. That was really all over the place that year. Robert Forster was nominated for an Academy for Best Supporting. He didn't win. He lost to Robin Williams.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:47

Oh, for Goodwill Hunting.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:49

So did Burt Reynolds, I believe, that year.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:52

Burt Reynolds was also nominated that year. Same year. Boogie Knights. He didn't win.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:55

That was ooh, that was a hell of a competition for that.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:58

Yeah, but it kind of goes back to what we were saying earlier about back in that time. Great movies. They were just movies. Just you just you couldn't throw a stick without you know hitting a good movie.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:08

I mean to say Pam Greer, beautiful woman.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:11

I mean I had to look up her age because I was like, is she 40? But she said she was 44 in the movie, right? Yeah, I think she's actually 48 in her life.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:19

Either way, she's still amazing looking. Oh my god. I thought I just thought the the black exploitation for so long ago. It's like she's gotta be like 60, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:28

She's in her 70s now.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:29

She was really young then. Right. And so yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:32

I mean it's there's a scene when because Max Cherry, who's played by Robert Forster, goes to pick her up because Ordell has gone to the Bailey's Bondsman and says 'cause he pays to get Beaumont out. 10,000, right? Or it's a thousand or whatever. It's ten thousand. Now he's putting that ten thousand and putting on Jackie Brown. Yeah. And it's that little dynamic between Ordell and uh Max is interesting.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:00

You know. I love the scene when Max is there waiting here to pick up, or he's here dropping off so-and-so, here to pick up uh Jackie Brown, and he's sitting there waiting, and he's like the scene, you know, pans on her and she's walking.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:12

The camera work again.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:13

And then his look is just like he he's like you and me, like, oh my god. Yeah. Smitten, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:02:19

So this isn't just like some regular woman, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:23

She's amazing. Even when he's like, Oh, you know, he's like, I'll I'll give you a ride. And he's okay. Well, you and then when he's in the car with her, automatically starts to kind of I don't want to think it's consciously, but he's like, Oh, would you like to get a drink?

SPEAKER_03 1:02:36

Yeah. Yeah. She's game.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:40

It's a nice touch, is what I'm saying. Yeah. And it's it's a nice scene to see that. I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:45

They have a nice little relationship there. I um it's interesting. Yeah, it's kind of a nice little oasis from all the other backstabbing and violence and all this other crazy shit that's going on in comparison, you know, what's going on or Dell's life, which is terrible.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:59

It's just nice.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:00

He's got those women on drugs and yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:02

He's got Melanie, and there's that one scene where Lewis, who because I mean, him and Melanie kind of have their little thing, right? Wanna screw or whatever she said? Wanna fuck? Oh, hey, do you want to smoke? And he's like, Okay. There's that one scene, like he has the phone. Hey, Lewis. Lewis. You know, he's like, you know, if if she's not, if there's no answer, you gotta hang up. That that that scene is uh De Niro in that role is so great.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:33

Yes. That's I mean that's what you call like you know, playing outside of your your casting or whatever, right? Right, and he played that perfect. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:41

Is it over here, Lewis? Lewis. Listen, just don't don't say another fucking word. I'm telling you. Oh good. I mean, even Michael Bowen and and uh Michael Keaton together playing off each other, right? They're trying to do the good cop, bad cop. Yeah. Um, and Ray, Michael Keaton's character. You know.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:02

Yeah, it's really his case, but right.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:04

He lets Michael help. And that that scene, even with him and Jackie at the restaurant, there's more to it later on. There was an outtake, and that was pretty funny. Something about hoes? And he's like, Yeah. And that was all ad-libbed, to be honest. That whole even that dynamic, Quentin just let him go at it. You know, I mean, there's parts of the scene, I'm sure, that they had to get a little okay, and then they went from there.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:30

Yeah. But that's oh, you have like the deluxe version or whatever that has like that, yeah. Yeah. Is as Quentin Tantino in uh introducing them, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:38

Well, he he goes and Quentin talks about why it was too long and blah, blah, blah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:42

I mean, I like Quentin, but there's that part where you're like, okay, nerd, shut up. No, sorry, Quentin, but it's funny to watch him real quick younger, because he's still similar, but even then it was you know, he goes a mile a minute and he's talking, he gets really animated. Right. And I get it. I mean, I appreciate it, but it's a point where like, okay, shut up.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:03

Yeah. I think after Kill Bill or one of the and you know, somewhere around that area he started kind of getting in his own head a little bit like, yeah, I've been getting all this great publicity, so it must be true. I must be the man, and let me tell everybody about it.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:16

And I haven't stopped since.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:18

Let me repeat it, you know, even though they're already telling me I'm I'm gonna just keep talking about it. Um just real quick because we're closing up. Uh so um 88% on Rotten Tomato, for those of you who care about that stuff. That's actually pretty good for maybe this old 88%.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:31

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:32

It's I mean, I think it should be higher, but that's just me.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:35

Roger Iber gave it four out of four. One of his favorites of ninety-seven, what?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:39

Yeah, him and Gene both gave it four.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:41

Yeah. Uh Metacritic 64%. Uh it's not that great, but that kind of shows that um some people or don't have that attention span.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:50

Well, it's like those critics, right, that were in front of Quinn, you know, their oral bias was oh, it's a it's I'm like, it's again, if that's that's a separate critic. Honestly, it is. Was the movie good or was it not? Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:03

I mean you're going to if it's good. Who cares if it's too long?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:08

You and I, you know, in the the course of watching how many movies we've sat through three plus hours. We've actually used to go watch double features. So but Jackie Brown definitely, like I said, great film. Like I said, I I think it it's underappreciated. Not enough accolades that it should have got.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:27

Yeah. Um I think it's one of his best. And uh I think those three movies when he first were all hits, yeah, they're great. You're talking about his first three?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:38

Yes, this is his third.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:39

Because it was Reservoir, Pulp, and then this was so and I know that if uh if I were to um recommend a Quentin Tarantino movie, I know that people would go for Pulp Fiction or maybe Django or something like that, but this would be mine. Um just because I just think it's it's just so well first of all, the acting Samuel L. Jackson, Robert De Niro, I mean, just those two alone, how they didn't win the awards, again, don't want you to start an award. Just uh I'm just saying their their roles were amazing. Anyway, yeah, great movie. Phenomenal.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:12

Yes, like I said, again, should have got a lot more publicity than it did. I don't know how, but that's why we do the show. Sometimes they slip through the cracks. Uh, you know, Shawshank didn't another one. But we could go on and on, but yeah, another time, kids.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:29

Yes. But yeah, that's we're telling you, definitely. If you've not seen it, you're in for a hell of a treat.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:35

Yes, definitely. I agree. And that's it.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:38

All right, kids, till next time.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:39

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:42

That's a wrap for today's movie reviews. Thanks for listening. And remember, if you like what you've heard, make sure you like, subscribe, and rate our show. And now, let's go get some ice cream.