Episode 41 AI (Artificial Intelligence) and Ex Machina

Dave & Christopher review the 2001 Science Fiction drama, "AI (Artificial Intelligence)" starring Haley Joel Osment, Jude Law, Frances O'Connor, William Hurt and Brendan Gleeson and directed by Steven Spielberg 

They also review the 2014 Science Fiction drama "Ex Machina"  starring Oscar Isaac, Domhnall Gleeson and Alicia Vikander;  written and directed (in his directorial debut) by Alex Garland

"If You Were Here" © writers: Tom Bailey, Alannah Currie, and Joe Leeway performed by J.Christopher Thomas

"Ride Captain Ride "© writers: Mike Pinera, Frank "Skip" Konte  performed by Blues Image

Transcript

AI (Artificial Intelligence)

SPEAKER_04 0:24

But sure. If you're looking for a good movie or to ensure that you've come to the right place, let's get started. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

Alright. For reels, let's get started. Or for reels though now. For real. Let's get started. Alright. Let's uh here we are again. Yes. Um this week we're gonna be going over a couple of movies based on AI. Right. Uh, because we have opinions on that, which we won't go into. Or well, we kind of will. Yeah, I think a little. Yeah. So anyway, um, my choice for today it was the movie AI by Steven Spielerberg from 2001.

SPEAKER_02 1:03

When's your birthday? I never had a birthday.

SPEAKER_00 1:12

His name is David.

SPEAKER_03 1:14

I feel it. That's creepy.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

In a distant future, in an age of intelligent machines, he is the first robotic child programmed to love and coexist as a member of a family. His is the tale of humanity and a journey to find his place among humans and machines.

SPEAKER_02 1:49

I am a boy. You are a real boy.

SPEAKER_00 1:53

At least as real as I've ever made one.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

Um let's see, so um AI Artificial Intelligence is a 2001 science fiction drama film directed by Steven Spielberg, which is part of the reason why, a good part of the reason, if I'm being honest, why I chose this movie. Because normally if a movie that you know was 25 years old that I don't really remember, if it wasn't Spielberg, I'd I never would have picked it. But I figured Spielberg has such a great track record. It's gotta be at least halfway decent. And to be fair, it is, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_04 2:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Uh it's not doesn't quite hold up as well as I thought it did, especially in light of the actual technological advancements since the movie was made. Um, but that's just my opinion. I'm not a scientist or certainly a tech dude or anything like that, but anyway, the screenplay by Spielberg is based on a screen story by Ian Watson adapting the 1969 short story Super Toys Last All Summer Long by Brian Aldous. Um, and that kind of goes to what I was saying as far as like this not really being AI in the sense that I think of it, insofar as Super Toys Last All Summer Long is more like like a Teddy Ruxman type thing. We had those back in the day.

SPEAKER_04 3:12

That's not really AI, that's just like hobbies and shit that like kind of like a Teddy Ruxman inside the movie. Right, right, as it turns out. Um you might be interjecting. Also, Stanley Kubrick had been working on this film for a lot of years. Right. And he couldn't he had a team of writers trying to crack it and he just got fed up and he handed it over to Spielberg. So I think some of the illusion you're getting at, the reason it's it doesn't it it says Spielberg, but it doesn't feel like a Spielberg movie. There's essences of parts of it that do.

SPEAKER_01 3:47

But I feel like I don't know if he was trying to because Stanley Kubrick had just well, he died like a couple years prior to this. And they were friends apparently. So this so him taking over this movie was kind of a friendly act, like and then make sure my friend gets his dying wish or whatever.

SPEAKER_04 4:02

So I'm wondering if he tried to um emulate some of Kubrick.

SPEAKER_01 4:07

It's possible.

SPEAKER_04 4:08

Because I mean it's it's a lot darker in tone, somewhat. I mean it it is and it isn't, but I think it is a little darker, which isn't usually your Spielberg kind of movie.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

Yeah, I mean I haven't read the book Super Toys Last All Summer Long, but from what I understand, Spielberg added that Pinocchio aspect to it. Right. Which is kind of like, I want to be a real boy. That kind of Disney-ish kind of light, that feels like Spielberg. Right. The rest of it feels like probably Kubrick or whatever.

SPEAKER_04 4:36

Right. And I'm guessing he had notes from Kubrick's writers. That's where he, you know, he wrote the screenplay. But, you know, you borrow maybe and say, Oh, that's a good I'll keep that. But like you said, he included this Pinocchio thing.

SPEAKER_01 4:49

And you're probably right. If they were actually friends, it's probably like, hey, I don't want to this is the way I would approach it, but this is your movie, and I'm doing this as a friend since you're not here. I'm gonna try to make it the way you want to. But on the other hand, it's always about money, always. So I shouldn't say that. Let's say 99% of the time it's about money.

SPEAKER_04 5:08

No, you're not. Look, you and I are in the same boat. We're on the same page there.

SPEAKER_01 5:12

So even though this is where my friend, quote unquote, uh I'm sure there's still people that is here like, well, you gotta, you know, put some stars in it and make it light and you know, put some rock music in it. You know, this stuff the kids like, you know.

SPEAKER_04 5:24

You know it's still his production company, Amblin. So you're right. He's gotta answer to his board or whoever, right? Right. So yeah, I totally agree with that.

SPEAKER_01 5:32

So yeah, I actually wanted to read this to the story Super Toys Last All Summer Long. I didn't get a chance to, obviously. Damn it, Janet. I know. Uh set in a future six society of film stars Haley Joel Osmond, who actually does a really good job in the movie. Fantastic job. As an aside, small aside, I read somewhere or saw somewhere that he did not blink, and I was trying to watch every scene to see if he does he blink uh to mimic mimic a you know a robot or whatever. Sure. And uh Jude Law Jude Law also did the same thing. I think I caught him blinking, but whatever. It's just it's a minor point. I think the idea of like not blinking is a pretty and apparently I guess I'm bringing up because that was his idea. And I don't know how old he was at this time.

SPEAKER_04 6:12

He looks like he's he was two years older from what 12-ish? 11-12? I want to say older because he was 13? Yeah, I think because he has you had the sixth cents, which was what, 99, so this is two years later. Okay. So yeah, he's probably you're probably right, closer to 12-13. 1213.

SPEAKER_01 6:27

I think that's pretty good for him coming up with that idea, like, hey, I shouldn't blink because robots don't blink. Right. And they're like, oh yeah, do that. And he never most scenes I saw, he does not blink, which is amazing because there's scenes where he cries, which I guess could be CGI, but still, I just think it's it's a great, um great acting choice, let's put it that way. Yeah. Um Haley Jewel Osman stars as David, a childlike android, uniquely programmed with the ability to love. And so therein lies the the little bit of a clash I have with it because artificial intelligence is supposed to make its own decisions, is my understanding of it. But in this case, it's like we give him a directive and he just stays on it no matter what, like a like a toy truck that winds up. If it hits the wall, it just keeps going until you move it. Right. But if it's artificial intelligent, it should turn itself around and do something. But my issue with the movie, and it's a minor issue, albeit, is that through the whole movie, through most of the movie, and I'll get the plot here in a second, he has this mission of like, I have to love, I have to love, I have to love. But if he's intelligent, he'd be like, Well, uh, well, the mom's gone, so I need to adapt to a different, you know, survival or something. But this this whole thing of like this directive, I can't be off it, which actually goes to the very end, literally to the very end on the second of time. Right. Like he just won't he's stuck at that wall and he won't move. It's like boo.

SPEAKER_04 7:50

And I agree with that part because and that's what we were discussing. Oh, the movie I picked. There's 13 years in between. Right. And I don't know that did we not foresee what AI I mean, I think because Blade Runner part of that too. Right. Replicants and all that. So that was what, 82? Right. So how are you and I agree with you, that's the one part where you're like and yeah, AI would for itself think for itself, but you're getting stuck on this program, that's all it does.

SPEAKER_01 8:19

Right. And it once you set it free on its own, it doesn't know how to adapt. It just keeps doing the same thing. And it's like, even a kid, uh a human kid would be better than that, you know.

SPEAKER_04 8:30

Exactly. Well, you still have that, I want to say, innate ability to survive. You'll do whatever adaptation, adaptation, right? You'll adapt.

SPEAKER_01 8:37

Right. At some point, kids get abandoned all the time. I shouldn't say that, it's a terrible thing, but it's true.

SPEAKER_04 8:42

It's true.

SPEAKER_01 8:43

Um, but they they're sad at first, obviously, but then they eventually adapt. Well, the survival skills kick in, right? Right. They go to foster care or whatever, and they learn how to interact with whoever, and sometimes it's for good or bad, but whatever, they do move on. They don't just keep like, well, I'm just gonna sit here until mom comes back. No, because they're smart enough to know that she's not coming back. Right. You got dumped. That's it. It's over. You know, it's done so.

SPEAKER_04 9:09

So yeah, I agree with that assessment that, yeah, that's the part where you're like, Yeah, it wasn't quite smart enough for me.

SPEAKER_01 9:15

And I was like, yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_04 9:16

And I think that's the part, like we say, that Spielberg interjected the Pinocchio thing, right?

SPEAKER_01 9:21

And I'm like, as a real boy.

SPEAKER_04 9:22

As an AI or artificial intelligence, it would be on that.

SPEAKER_01 9:26

Right.

SPEAKER_04 9:27

But we didn't make the movie.

SPEAKER_01 9:29

Right. And you yeah, and the keyword being intelligence, so you would think uh if he's supposed to be thir twelve, thirteen, let's say, right. You know the difference between you know real and fantasy. You know, I you know, I don't think you know, if I eat spinach, I'm gonna get muscles like Popeye when I'm 13 or whatever. You like you're past that at that point. You you figure it out.

SPEAKER_04 9:47

So, real quick, and this is gonna get your uh the story, the plot, because the couple that uh get David because their son is he's stricken with some kind of bacterial disease, right?

SPEAKER_01 10:00

Or something right, and he's in cryostasis or something.

SPEAKER_04 10:02

They put him in a coma, right?

SPEAKER_01 10:04

Right. So this is in the future, so they have that technology or whatever.

SPEAKER_04 10:08

Right. So they're in order the mom at first with David is taking aback, like, how could you do this to me? And he's the dad's just trying to like sage, like, okay, I just need you to come back, I don't want you to be mourning. We still have us, right? And this is a temporary, you know, because they're not sure if their son's gonna make it or not. Right. And the mom is very reluctant at first and then I'll kind of skip ahead. But if the son does make it, comes back. And that's kind of the point of in the movie, that dilemma of morals and knowing right from wrong. Because even as a artificial intelligence, it should be able to see what the sun is trying to do to it. Right. Right? Right. And I'm not trying to get ahead of you, but yeah, that's okay. That's the part where I was like, Yeah. You're just stuck totally. I mean, but and we agree as AI, there's like, no, it'd see like no it has no survival skills.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

My cat has more survival skills than this supposed you know higher piece of intelligence technology, right?

SPEAKER_04 11:08

Right. It's supposed to be a higher intelligence too.

SPEAKER_01 11:10

Right. And you just basically stuck it as a newborn, like it can't do anything. Let me fall into the pool. Ugh. You know, I can't drown, but I'm just gonna hang out in the pool with my brother, who I know in theory is human and will drown.

SPEAKER_04 11:25

But he didn't even save me, save me. Yeah, that's nuts.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

Yeah, but anyway. So anyway, to get uh with your lead-in. So the plot is that but yes, this couple, their son has some kind of I thought he got an accident or something, or some kind of disease, whatever. Right. Whatever the case is, they go and visit him at this place, the cryostasis hospital, I guess. Are they those in the future, apparently, where people they can't cure them, but they just freeze them until they can find a cure, which is I we're probably not that far off from that. Now that actually might be more technologically accurate than the actual AI.

SPEAKER_04 11:56

Right.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

But um anyway, um the father, and I'm not really sure what his motivation is for wanting to have this David AI, this robot, to quote unquote replace his son, other than like which you said, maybe he's trying to comfort his wife or something. Just in case it feels like it's a toys. It's like if if this is your son, where's your connection to it too, right? Uh unless it's just like I said, unless it's just a robot and it's literally a placeholder. So then when the ki when our son comes back, we're gonna toss it out, which is actually what happens.

SPEAKER_04 12:26

But I want to say that he's doing it as maybe a mechanism to let's say the son doesn't make it, right? Right. And it's like, okay, we need to move on. I mean, I don't know anybody, even me as a father, could just do that. Right. But this is a movie, and I those are some of the contrivances I have with the movie where like I I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

I mean, yeah, it's that's well, yeah, that's what I mean. It's like you're just gonna temporarily go, hey, come on in. Because this isn't, if I remember correctly, and I only watched it once, um, other than the time I saw it back when it first came out, right? Yeah, 25 years ago. Um he's basically the whole thing is like, this is for you, my wife. This is for my wife. You need to unlock it with this series of words to it'll print on you, but make sure you want to keep it in the house because once you imprint once it imprints on you, it's done. It's it's yours forever. Right. And it's like, well, where does it imprint on you too? Because you're the dad, so when what it's it's so I I didn't understand. So so let's say it does imprint on him, on on the wife rather, right? But it doesn't imprint on the father, so he's just like a stranger. Like I I didn't I didn't get that.

SPEAKER_04 13:33

I well that's why I said as a as a dad is that disconnect.

SPEAKER_01 13:37

Right. It's like it's for you. It's like, well, what are you what? What are you just you guys both live in the same house, so and the whole movie is like the the David trying to get to the mom trying to be accepted by the mom for her love.

SPEAKER_04 13:50

Yeah, no, I don't care about the dad, I don't care about my brother. Well, he didn't even call dad, he called him by his name.

SPEAKER_01 13:54

Yeah, it's I I didn't get that. But um anyway, so they get David and uh Dav the first 20 minutes, 15, 20 minutes-ish of the movie where they have David in the house and they're trying to, and especially the mom is trying to get used to him. That was kind of interesting because he's quote unquote learning how to do stuff. Uh super awkward. You'd think that a computer would have more knowledge of like, you know, if a human being's in the toilet, you don't just walk in. That's basic shit. Again, my cat doesn't even do that. So you know, I I liked kind of where they were going with it. Like he's he's everything's new to him, but it was a little creepy. Like I if I was the wife, I'd be like, okay, after this week or whatever that I've been trying him out, no, he's he's out.

SPEAKER_04 14:39

I just thought of this as we were speaking. I feel like Spielberg is kind of dumbing us down, like we're supposed to understand how AI works, right? And this is totally opposite of that. It's like here, this is how it should work, kids. I mean, and you and I, as we just broke it down here, I'm like, no, we're I think most people are beyond that. But you're stuck on this elementary level thinking that's what people will understand.

SPEAKER_01 15:02

Right.

SPEAKER_04 15:03

I'm like, no, if you write a good story, people will get it. Right.

SPEAKER_01 15:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:07

And that's I think that's like you. I like the movie, and it's not a great movie, it's a good movie.

SPEAKER_01 15:13

Yeah, it's not a bad movie. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:15

Right. And and I agree with that. Someone I we have the same opinion that, yeah, it could have been more. Right. But he's stuck I for lack of it, or he got stuck on stupid, making us all feel like I'm gonna dumb that down, so you gotta be dumb.

SPEAKER_01 15:28

I couldn't help but think of um was it Rocky Four where Polly had the robot? Yeah. Yeah. I kept thinking like this the parallels, like I know. Hello, Polly. Would you like a drink? That kind of shit.

SPEAKER_04 15:40

Makes more sense because it's a robot. It doesn't have artificial intelligence, it's just a robot. That was what I tell it to with a program.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

Right, right. Right. So that's what I kept thinking. I was like, well, I Polly's rope was funny. At least Polly's funny. You know, he's it's he's got it giving him beers and stuff. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_04 15:56

Even the mommy, mommy, it got creepy. Like it'd be like, okay, get off me, kid. Get off me, kid.

SPEAKER_01 16:01

Yeah, exactly. That's what I mean. After that first trial week or whatever it was, that whatever period of time. Take him back. I'll just wait for my son and take my chances. Anyway, um, so speaking of which, the son does miraculously get better and they bring him home, and he has some technology, he's wearing like technology to help him walk, which is actually kind of interesting. Probably exoskeleton or something.

SPEAKER_04 16:22

Probably because he's in stasis so long and he has to can't walk, he has to learn how to walk again.

SPEAKER_01 16:26

Where we would have to have therapy, they just have this exoskeleton thing.

SPEAKER_04 16:29

What the uh what do you call it from not using your muscles atrophy? Yeah, thank you. He probably and that just helped. Yeah, because then after we see as time goes on, he doesn't need it anymore.

SPEAKER_01 16:40

He does denim, but right in the interim, he can walk. So that's that's again that's technology that's actually useful. Right. The cryostasis, the exoskeleton, the AI. In this movie, yeah, it just doesn't work. Right. So he had some good ideas there. Um, so the the son comes back, and immediately I get the feeling the son is automatically jealous. Like, who's this thing? And they kind of they kind of couch it like um I it's supposed to be a brother. If it's artificial intelligence, it's supposed to be his brother. Right. But they couch it as this is a toy, just like your other toy that you've thrown away. Teddy, right? That bear that you, you know, barely, you know, they bring out Teddy or whatever, is also supposedly artificially intelligent, I guess.

SPEAKER_04 17:21

Speaking of that bear, that bear seemed more intelligent than to me. That's what the AI would be like.

SPEAKER_01 17:29

Right. Because it was already thinking ahead and it we have to do this, we have to adapt, blah, blah, blah. Right. If you drop me, I'll break. And you know, it seemed like but maybe if it was older, maybe it had time to learn that stuff, I guess. If it was with the family long enough, and I don't I don't know. I'm yeah, I'm making excuses for it. Also, to be fair, this is 2001. Sure. So even in the next movie, which I won't go into, they mentioned that the idea of AI has been around for decades, yeah, but it's only recently that we've really had this idea of A, it being a reality, and B, what the reality might look like. Sure. And it doesn't look like this.

SPEAKER_04 18:07

No.

SPEAKER_01 18:07

So to be fair, fair enough. This is before the time when we kind of knew all this stuff.

SPEAKER_04 18:11

Right.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

And again, to be fair, like the cryostasis and the exoskeleton thing, those are actually I don't know if anybody's actually working on that in real life. I think that's actually oh, yeah, because uh so the soldiers too, I've seen and the limbs that like respond to their like flesh and everything, their nerve impulses. They're not like back in the day, we had like the hooks. Right.

SPEAKER_04 18:32

Yeah, they've gotten better, right? Real quick, let me interject. Yeah. Because you're saying that they've been talking decades for AI, right? Because even in space, wait, 2001 a space odyssey, how there's a sentient robot or no offense, Mr. Spielberg, but you could have done quite have done better.

SPEAKER_01 18:52

Right. He can just blame it on Kubrick. It's his fault. I was just always crappy movie, it was his fault.

SPEAKER_04 18:58

I was just trying to be like Stanley.

SPEAKER_01 18:59

That's all that's almighty so uh so anyway, so their actual son comes home, and basically at that point, um David is basically obsolete because now he's just a toy or whatever, because they don't they have their real son home. What happens is um I don't know if I should go through all this the plot, but basically uh David becomes obsolete because of some thing issues that happen at the house, let's put it that way. And um in a kind of a fucked up move, they kind of they they I guess the deal is that if they decide they don't want him, once he's in he's already imprinted, so he's useless. Kind of like special ordering a piece of furniture or something. Right. It's like you can't return it, you can't get your money back. So instead of having him destroyed, the mom cuts him free in the forest or some shit and says, Oh, there's these people out there that capture uh AIs and robots and stuff and torture them. Stay away from them. So don't run into them, go this other way, and then now peace out. Right. It's like, what the fuck? Yeah, it's a real thing. You can't like get him. So there's these people that torture AI and you leave him by them. What? Yeah, you leave him at all. First of all, it's bad enough, but oh yeah, they're that way. You should go that way.

SPEAKER_04 20:10

Well, was the circumstance she's in her head? Her moral right thing is dilemmas, well, if I let take him, they'll just destroy him, and I can't have that my conscience.

SPEAKER_01 20:19

If I return him or whatever, say I don't want him anymore, they'll kill him because he's right will dismantle him or whatever.

SPEAKER_04 20:23

Basically, they're wrong, they're gonna kill him. Right. But but this is better than that. But you can still get killed, but Right.

SPEAKER_01 20:31

It's even worse. Yeah, it's like whatever. So anyway, yeah, I was like, Steven Spielberg, dude, what are you doing? Why'd you let this happen?

SPEAKER_04 20:39

That's the darker part that I think is Kubrick-ish. Right. And I mean, I'm I've seen Steven where he's done close, but this is like I said, there's a pall of darkness.

SPEAKER_01 20:48

Right. And he intermixes, tries to intermix the Spielberg and there's this Um, and I don't know if that's just Spielberg, Spielberg or whatever, but that thing of like love and good and everything that's right in the world will still power through. So this kid is like he's against all odds, against these poachers basically, these evil people who like go around catching robots and torture them or whatever, but he's still focused on his mom. And I guess what some of the things that I've read is like it's supposed it's supposed to be metaphorical for like, you know, um people saying, Oh, it's about being human and all this other stuff. It's like, yeah, yes, I guess I could kind of see that, but he doesn't he's not it doesn't do a good job, in my opinion, of getting across that this is supposed to be metaphorical.

SPEAKER_04 21:32

Right, and I agree with that. So, um I think that like we say, we're it could have done handled better, done better, in my opinion. And this is just like I said, he dumbed it down and he didn't stop from the dumbing down, kept it at that level.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

Yeah. And especially yeah, so um anyway, before he leaves the house, the day his mom or the lady, this is supposed to be his mom, reads him a story about Pinocchio, and he gets stuck in his programming about this whole blue fairy can make Make Pinocchio a real boy. And so somehow he gets it in his head that if he finds the blue fairy out there in the world, that that'll make him into a real boy, and then he can go back to his mom and she'll love him. Right. And that's the supposed metaphorical part about we always want the love of our parents, whatever, blah blah blah. Right. And that's valid. That's that's a great metaphor, except he just didn't get it across very well somehow. No, he didn't uh so that idea of like chasing your parents for their approval and whatever, it's like, yeah, I I can kind of see that, but he didn't convey that this is like no, because then leave the Jude Law character out because that happens too. He's Jude Law is a like a sex robot or something. Jiggelo Joe. Jiggelo robot can change his hair color with this you know flip of a button or whatever. He's the ideal sexual partner, I guess. Of women. Partner in general for women. Right. That thing where he clicks his head and the music comes in. Yeah. Uh I would have left that out. If this was supposed to be a metaphor for family. Right. Why do we need a hooker or a male prostitutes?

SPEAKER_04 23:01

That's the part where I'm wondering the notes from Stanley Kubrick, right?

SPEAKER_01 23:04

Put the male prostitute in. Because that's more Kubrick than it is Spielberg. Right. And that would be more close to AI because he's has something something approaching free will. Right. He knows how to evade, you know, he knows he's in trouble. Certain things happen. He knows how to evade, get around. Right. He knows, oh, this woman likes this type of thing. I'm going to do this. That makes more sense than Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 23:26

Than the Haley Joe Osmond David character in the room.

SPEAKER_01 23:33

Just for me, maybe that's what Kubrick's vision was. That seems more accurate to like a sex robot, and he gets he he gets framed for murder, and then something happened and they have to track him down. That makes more sense.

SPEAKER_04 23:45

And that might have been a more interesting movie.

SPEAKER_01 23:49

Pinocchio, right. Pinocchio wants to be a real boy and he loves his mom.

SPEAKER_04 23:53

It's like But you read my mind after re-watching this movie. I felt like that was superfluous, the whole Jude Law arc. Right. You could have put any other other than us.

SPEAKER_01 24:03

Or just leave him out altogether. If it's supposed to be a metaphor for us finding us wanting to always want our parents' approval, right? Why do I need a what does a sex worker have to do with nothing? Right.

SPEAKER_04 24:15

So well, there was another robot, a female version, right? That kind of with David's character than the the one that was it with him in the cage or what?

SPEAKER_01 24:28

That was in that weird kind of cage net thing or whatever. Okay, yeah. She was trying to take care of him. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:33

That I could have seen. That could have spelled out more of the what you the.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

But he's supposedly imprinted on Dead Lady.

SPEAKER_04 24:39

So you know, you know, as a connection rather than the Jiggalo Joe, you could have used that as a and yeah, and he's I I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

Whatever. Um so anyway, so I forgot. There's like some kind of rodeo circus thing or whatever where they torture robots for fun.

SPEAKER_04 24:56

Well, you're talking about those people that she told him to avoid his David's Avoid them.

SPEAKER_01 25:01

They of course they end up catching him anyway.

SPEAKER_04 25:03

And um his mom's name or the surrogate mom is Monica.

SPEAKER_01 25:09

Monica, okay.

SPEAKER_04 25:10

And Henry was the husband. But yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:14

So they do catch him at this farm or whatever the fuck you this juggalo convention, whatever the fuck it is. Right. It's like, now that's accurate. We we probably still do stupid shit in the future. Oh, hell yeah. Let's kill some robots. Woo! Drink some beers. There's like a band, I think it's ministry actually that's on stage. It's at least one member of ministry that's on stage. Well, they're like killing robots or whatever. Right. And it's kind of it's kind of sad, but they're like, well, they're all robots, I don't give a shit. Right. Because they're all like, ooh, goodbye, David. It's like, okay. It's a it's like a vacuum cleaner. I I'm what? I don't give a shit. It's not uh it's got a face, but it isn't it's like a hologram of a face. It's like Right, it's not a person, it's not a real life. Right. He just didn't they didn't get it done all the way across. But anyway, um David escapes, and then he still gets on. He's basically the movie is like he's on that quest to find the player. And I will say the ending is kind of interesting where they went with it. Sure. Uh it could go either way, if I'm being honest, because some people might think it's really far-fetched. Of course, they won't go into that, you have to watch the movie. Exactly. But um I thought it was okay.

SPEAKER_03 26:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:20

I thought it was okay. It yeah, like I said, it comes out of really comes out of left field. Um, but it worked for me. I I was okay with that.

SPEAKER_04 26:28

Me too. So I get it. I know what you're saying, and I concur with that. It it did work for me.

SPEAKER_01 26:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:33

Um, I think our biggest hang-ups really is just like we said, the AI is just so elementary.

SPEAKER_01 26:41

Yeah, it's more of just a robot. So it's like I said, like it's like a teddy ruck's pen, but it's but they marvel at the fact that flesh fare, that's what it's called. Yes. Where they destroy robots. They said, Oh, this one's like it's so realistic, it's so human. So someone clearly put a lot of attention into it. Let's spare it or whatever.

SPEAKER_04 26:57

That was the first child they had created, right? Right. They had tried making surrogate parents and whatnot, and giggle joes and even a female giggle female, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 27:07

Giggolo Joe has like plastic hair or whatever, right? So you can tell it's a robot, or it seems like it's plastic or something like that. Well, the the makeup. He pushes a button and changes color.

SPEAKER_04 27:16

But even his his makeup on his face.

SPEAKER_01 27:18

It's really obviously, yeah. The little girl sees Haley Joel Osmond, David, in the cage and goes, Oh, that's there's a little boy in the cage. And then they're like, Wow, they spent someone spent a lot of money and time on this. Again, that's supposed to be a parenthood metaphor, I'm thinking.

SPEAKER_04 27:34

Well, it's explained in the movie, and we're not gonna ruin that because you should watch the movie.

SPEAKER_01 27:38

No, no, I'm saying the fact that someone put time into it is But it's explained also because of the Why, yeah, why it's what the story is behind that, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:47

Right. And David discovers that in the third act. You know, and it's it's a good movie, not a great movie. Yeah, you know. Um, like I said, I can see Kubrick's hand in it, and then we're Spielberg like trying to honor, pay homage to his friend, so to speak. But it my opinion is you can still do that and make it your own, you know. I just felt like the story was too dumbed down in the sense that we agree that AI really I like your uh comparison to Paulie and R Rocky Four, because that's literally what David is.

SPEAKER_01 28:21

Right, just a program, not a to serve in this case Polly, but in this case, yeah, the Monica, right.

SPEAKER_04 28:27

Right. I mean, what is that? Because that's not AI, that's just a program.

SPEAKER_01 28:31

That's like a dog would do that. You you know, you tell you tell the dog we're gonna go walk. I mean, the dog would tell you, uh fuck you, I'm gonna go walk whatever I want. You know, um yeah, that's that's our grievance or you know, oh let me go over some of the caster real quick because we're um wrapping this up. But um Haley Joel Osman, of course, as David. Osmond was Spielberg's first and only choice for the role to put portray the character. Oh, there it is. Osmond avoided blinking his eyes and programmed himself with good posture. That's interesting. Frances O'Connor, who you might know, I don't know her, but as Monica Swinton, she's pretty hot. Yeah, I've seen her in a lot of movies. Sam Robards is Henry Swinton.

SPEAKER_04 29:07

Yeah, yeah. He was he's been in quite a few movies. He was in uh We did Beautiful Girls, and he was the husband of Oh, right, right.

SPEAKER_01 29:15

I knew I saw him before, okay.

SPEAKER_04 29:17

He's uh Jason's son. Okay. Magnolia, the the patriarch.

SPEAKER_01 29:23

Oh, okay. Oh, the actor, Jason Robards. Okay, gotcha, yeah, yeah. Uh Jude Law, of course, is Jiggle Ojo. He probably has the biggest role next to Haley Joel Osmet. He's in quite a few scenes. Yes. To prepare for the role Lost, the acting of Fred Astaire and Gene Kelly. It does have that kind of emulation of those kind of movies. I saw that. The way he walks around, yeah. Jake Thomas is Martin Swin. I don't know how that's. Oh, the kid. Okay, that's not the actual son. William Hurt is Professor Alan Hobby. He's the one that originally came up with David in the beginning. Yes. Like you said, there's something later on when we got to the one I really like was Brendan Gleason. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:58

The fish fresh, the flesh.

SPEAKER_01 30:00

Always knocked out in the park. Yeah. Love him. He was good. Uh, some of the other ones, um Robin Williams is Doctor No. Yeah, he remember when they go and they go, oh. That's right, right.

SPEAKER_04 30:11

Uh Gigolo Joe tells him he'll know and I knew that was Robin. I could hear the voice.

SPEAKER_01 30:17

Oh, okay. I didn't check. The Meryl Streep is Blue Fairy. Well, I didn't know that. I did catch Chris Rock. They put him in a canon or whatever. Right. As comedian, quote unquote. Ben Kingsley as specialist.

unknown 30:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:28

I don't know who that was. Yeah. And ministry, yeah. I didn't know that, but it was the whole band. I knew it was Al Jorgensen. Anyway, um, how did this thing do as far as money wise?

SPEAKER_04 30:41

It made money, but it didn't make a lot of money.

SPEAKER_01 30:42

It was Spielberg's guy.

SPEAKER_04 30:44

It was between what, 90 and 100 million budget? It grows 235. Almost 236. I mean it's decent, but with marketing and all that, they would say it was a loss.

SPEAKER_01 30:56

Huh. Um music by John Williams, wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:59

The score, I mean, in the movie, the score was nice.

SPEAKER_01 31:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:03

And usually Spielberg does have John Williams in his book.

SPEAKER_01 31:07

No, I didn't know that for every movie. Okay. Not every, but most. Yeah, okay. Um, yeah, so that's it. Um there's probably more to it, you know, behind the scenes. I was gonna watch some of the things and I was like, I just didn't. So I was going to, but I didn't, because I didn't feel like it. But I'm sure there's a lot that went into this movie. I just, generally speaking, it's a good movie if it's on, I would say. Sure. And how did I watch this?

SPEAKER_04 31:35

It was on it's either on Pluto.

SPEAKER_01 31:37

I I paid for this. And it's on Amazon. It was on Pluto?

SPEAKER_04 31:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:40

Shit.

SPEAKER_04 31:40

That's what I saw.

SPEAKER_01 31:41

So I mean I put in AI movie streaming, and then it had all had Amazon, YouTube, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, okay, I guess I gotta pay for it. I didn't see Pluto. Anyway, Pluto TV.

SPEAKER_04 31:51

When I checked IMDB, it said Pluto. I could be outdated, but Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 31:54

Yeah, because sometimes it'll say Netflix too, and I'll go, oh, cool. Oh, this is not available in your region. You son of a p- You lied to me, computer. You lied to me, use me. More like David. Anyway, so that's all I got for that one.

SPEAKER_04 32:07

Yeah, I agree. I mean, it's a good movie, not a great movie.

SPEAKER_01 32:09

It's yeah, if it's on, watch it. It's cool. It has some good points to it. I feel like it's two hours and two hours plus.

SPEAKER_04 32:17

Like two hours and twenty minutes.

SPEAKER_01 32:18

It doesn't feel like it.

SPEAKER_04 32:19

It goes, yeah, it's a nice it flows.

SPEAKER_01 32:22

First when I started watching it, I was like, oh, this is not gonna be good. Because I saw the runtime and I was like, I was watching it, and I was like, I remember this now, and I remember not liking it. And it's like, what, how long, how much longer? Shit. But then it it does move with a pretty clip, pretty good clip. So right.

SPEAKER_04 32:37

And I like I said, I think with Haley, who does a phenomenal job at such a young age for an actor. He did. I mean, he I'm I'm I think it's smart that Spielberg picked him. I don't know at the time many younger actors that could have pulled that off, in all fairness to him.

SPEAKER_01 32:53

Right. You know, so yeah. Uh so that's all I got for that one.

SPEAKER_04 32:58

Yeah. I I mean, like I said, I think we both agree. I mean, it's a marginal thumbs up.

SPEAKER_01 33:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:03

It's it's good. Yeah. I don't think you'll be disappointed. I just think you if you agree with what our points are, some of it you're like, uh you could Right.

SPEAKER_01 33:16

But yeah. I mean, like again, I'm not a scientist, but uh this doesn't seem to be to be AI as the way in the way that I think of it. Right. This is all like the equivalent of generative AI, like where it can has a limited skill set based on what you give it. It doesn't like if you say I want to make a song with AI, it can all it can draw on what's already been made, but it can't say, I'm gonna create a song, and then or you say, Hey, I want a funk song. It says, Fuck you, I want a rock song, I'm gonna do whatever I want because I'm AI. Right. No, it just does whatever you tell it to do. So that's kind of more like a robot, really. So um, but I know there are other applications of AI, like medical applications, where it learns and knows how to like do things that the human brain can't do. And that's the part that everyone's like, that's inevitable, I think.

SPEAKER_04 34:05

That's the scary part, I think.

SPEAKER_01 34:07

Uh it I mean it depends on how you use it. I think the scary part is the generative part because you don't know what's real anymore. Like you send me these things about you know Stallone as Wolverine and shit. That's all AI. So it's like some people would be like, Well, oh, really? That really happened? Like, no, it's AI.

SPEAKER_04 34:23

But it's kind of cool.

SPEAKER_01 34:24

It's kind of I mean, it's yeah, it's pretty cool. But then people don't know the difference between what's real and what's not. That's the scary part. Yeah, I get it. And also people getting put out of work and that would really be we don't agree with that. Yeah, but anyway, yeah, that's that's what I think.

SPEAKER_04 34:36

Without further ado, yes,

Ex Machina

SPEAKER_04 34:38

my choice this week was ex machina, which I feel like is more what we were trying to broach with the AI.

SPEAKER_01 34:44

Yeah, more in the line of what I think AI is actually supposed to be.

SPEAKER_02 34:50

Hello.

SPEAKER_00 34:51

How do you feel about her? Oh man, she's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 34:54

Do you want to be my friend?

SPEAKER_00 34:56

Of course. Now the question is, how does she feel about you? Did you design Ava's face based on my pornography profile? If I did, would that be cheating?

SPEAKER_02 35:10

Are you attracted to me? Do you think about me when we aren't together? Nathan isn't your friend. You're wrong.

SPEAKER_03 35:20

Wrong about what?

SPEAKER_02 35:20

You shouldn't trust him. You shouldn't trust anything he says.

SPEAKER_00 35:25

Why did you make Ava?

SPEAKER_03 35:27

Believe it or not, I'm actually on your side.

SPEAKER_00 35:32

Did you give her sexuality as a diversion tactic?

SPEAKER_04 35:37

Does Ava actually like you?

SPEAKER_00 35:47

Ex Machina written a R.

SPEAKER_04 35:49

Right. So, real quick, Ex Machina is a 2014 science fiction film written and directed by Alex Garland in his directorial debut. Uh he had written what, Sunshine, 28 Days. Carrie Bulling is the one that she was. Oh, I was gonna say so and he he did uh Is he an author too?

SPEAKER_01 36:10

He's written, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:11

Yeah. The novel The Beach, which was at a time. There you go.

SPEAKER_01 36:14

Yeah, that's a guy that's very talented.

SPEAKER_04 36:17

Yes. So it's this movie stars uh his name, it's I guess pronounced Donald Gleason. Brendan his dad was just in the previous movie. Yeah. And then uh Alicia Vikander and Oscar Isaac. Being a creep again. It follows a programmer who's invited by a CEO to administer what's called a Turing test to an intelligent female humanoid robot.

SPEAKER_01 36:43

So the Turing test being that you basically you don't know it's a not a real person, basically. It's you don't know that's an AI. Right. If it tricks you into believing that it's real, then it passes the test.

SPEAKER_04 36:56

Right. Donald uh Gleason stars as Caleb Smith, uh program at a search engine company called Blue Book, which I guess is now they didn't want to use Google or whatever. Right to get around that, they called it Blue Book. He wins this in-office contest for a one-week visit to this luxurious isolated home with the CEO Nathan Bateman, who's played by the creep, Oscar Ising.

SPEAKER_01 37:20

It's not me. I didn't I didn't pick these roles. He's the one that was.

SPEAKER_04 37:24

It's not just that he's a creep, he's just what narcissistic and he thinks he's a god, basically. Yeah, you know, and he thinks he's above everybody, so he hides away in this mystical place.

SPEAKER_01 37:33

Yeah, you know. Was that that line's like uh when we get to his place? Oh, you've been driving over for like the whole forest and like all these mountains, ranges, and shit. But yeah, he's he's a creep.

SPEAKER_04 37:46

And when he when Caleb lands, because he wins and he everyone's all excited from the office, and you know, he lands in this remote place. We just you know, Nathan runs, uh walks in, sees Nathan boxing or whatever, and he's like, Okay. But then there's also a servant who doesn't speak named Kyoko. You know, and you're like, okay, and I mean even later on the movie, Nathan explains, oh, she doesn't understand English.

SPEAKER_01 38:12

It's uh young, super attractive looking and model-ish.

SPEAKER_04 38:15

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:16

I should point out that's what I mean about being a creep.

SPEAKER_04 38:18

Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:19

So it's like he doesn't make fat dudes, fat dude AIs. It's always like these super lithe models who kind of you know look have that kind of look to them, let's put it that way.

SPEAKER_04 38:29

So after they have their little m cute me cute, not but uh Caleb and Nathan, he has him sign the NDA, the non-disclosure agreement. Right. That he whatever he sees he can't divulge.

SPEAKER_01 38:41

And but even from the But he doesn't even let him read it.

SPEAKER_04 38:44

No, he goes, Well, you can go ahead and read it, but you know, and he's like, Okay, I'll say I should see a lawyer.

SPEAKER_01 38:50

He says, Well, if you wait, it's basically if you leave here, I'm not gonna let you read it. You can either sign it or you can get out. And it's like who does that? Right. Right? But anyway. He accepts it and he signs it. So Right. I mean, that's something like if you don't sign it and I kick you out, someone else is gonna get experience of a lifetime that you're gonna feel missed out.

SPEAKER_04 39:10

Uh jangles that in front of me, you know, like, hey.

SPEAKER_01 39:12

This is I'm me. Like you know it's gonna be something awesome, so sign it and you can hang out with me for a week. It's like this guy's an asshole.

SPEAKER_04 39:20

Right at the bat, yeah, you get that sense that he's so full of himself. Like, you know, you're gonna want to hang out with me.

SPEAKER_01 39:26

And I'm saying that that's a good thing because I'm thinking like it really like makes me a little bit mad in real life. And even though it's an acting, I'm clearly it's acting, I know it's acting. I know, but just something about his performance, like, oh man, I feel like I know people like that. We've all known people, like right like little fool of themselves, and they kind of they're condescending, but not in an overt way. Because there's a point where he says something like, you know, hey, can we just be guys? Yeah, we just talk, just two guys. It's like we're in your house, and you're telling me how you want the conversation to go, you're still being a dick to me, so you're still dictating how it goes, but we're supposed to be bro. Say, bro. Right. Yeah, don't don't. I know you're intimidated by me and how great I I mean, he literally tells him that. Right. And it's like, oh my god, I know people like that so. My point is an acting move. Oh, uh A A1. It's awesome.

SPEAKER_04 40:16

I mean, I mean, maybe Oscar is like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 40:18

I mean, you know, you don't know.

SPEAKER_04 40:20

You don't know. How much is you and how much is, you know.

SPEAKER_01 40:25

I'm gonna give him the benefit of the doubt and say that he probably studied like some of these Sergey Bryns and you know Zuckerberg. Zuckerberg, right?

SPEAKER_04 40:31

Bezmouth and all those dudes. No, I mean I mean you're probably right, but he does. I agree with you. He sells it, yeah. Oh god. Um it's it's because Caleb plays that kind of shy and a little starstruck. He's well for the lack of a better thing, he's a total nerd, right?

SPEAKER_01 40:49

Yeah, well, he's a coder, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:51

So he probably the loner keeps to himself, you know.

SPEAKER_01 40:54

And really, I mean you have to be very into tech to be you know on that level, working because I guess he's one of the better coders at the blue book, whatever they call it, or whatever. Right, blue book, you're fine.

SPEAKER_04 41:05

And then, you know, their little interaction, and Caleb have been kind of okay, you know, even though he's getting slapped down by Nathan, yeah, he accepts it, just takes it, like, oh you know.

SPEAKER_01 41:16

Because this guy's this genius, or whatever. He's the right CEO of the visionary, but he's trying to come at it like I came here for a reason to have this scientific discourse with you, and so that's why I'm coming at you. But then Oscar Isaac's character is like, oh, come on. Let's just be bros. I'm I'm already know I'm great. Right. That's already done. We already covered that. We covered that as soon as you hit the island here. I love it. What else do you need? So let's just have a have a beer. Just tell me how good I am. Tell me I'm great. No, let's have a beer, you know, get drunk. It's awesome.

SPEAKER_04 41:47

But then, you know, the next phase, he shows him his room and it's he goes, There's no windows, and he explains why. And it's like, that's kind of disconcerting though.

SPEAKER_01 41:56

You don't have any kind of claustrophobic.

SPEAKER_04 41:58

Right.

SPEAKER_01 41:58

Right.

SPEAKER_04 41:59

He goes, Oh, there's water here. And even in the first night, there's a shutdown because Caleb tries to go out and it's like that would piss me off.

SPEAKER_01 42:08

Well, or make me really scared or both.

SPEAKER_04 42:10

Right. Piss me off and freak me out.

SPEAKER_01 42:12

Like, I can't get out of this windowless room because the power's out at this technological genius' house. How the fuck's the power going out? You don't have a generator that works. Something, right? Right. And so that like you're fucking with me now because that's you know, there's no way that you can't figure out how to get this door to open.

SPEAKER_04 42:27

Right. I mean, that's covered later on in the why that's happening.

SPEAKER_01 42:32

But he also says that there's no windows because of the fiber optic cable and all this other stuff because of the research that he's doing, right?

SPEAKER_04 42:38

It's a bullshit.

SPEAKER_01 42:39

I thought it was gonna be gonna be like there'd be like a hologram of the outside, at least through that. Right. Whatever.

SPEAKER_04 42:45

I mean, we both agree, I think even that just a cell basically, it's not even a room.

SPEAKER_01 42:49

Right.

SPEAKER_04 42:50

It's purposely done.

SPEAKER_01 42:50

Even cells have windows though, sometimes.

SPEAKER_04 42:53

No, they do. Yeah, so anyway, he after all this, he gets to finally go and meet this humanoid robot. What's her name again? It's Ava. Ava, that's right. And you see her, she has a face, she has kind of parts of her body, and parts of it you can see that are robotic.

SPEAKER_01 43:14

It's more like a mannequin almost. Yeah, and you can see like the machinery or whatever inside. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:20

So and um you know, he Caleb gives her generalized questions, and it kind of goes to what we were saying about the previous movie. This one you can see her reacting and adapting to Caleb.

SPEAKER_01 43:34

Right.

SPEAKER_04 43:35

Rather quickly, too. Right. Right. And after they have their initial, 'cause it's even in the movie they'll go Ava session one.

SPEAKER_01 43:42

Right.

SPEAKER_04 43:42

And it breaks it down, and then he meets with Nathan later. So how'd it go? And he basically you know, spewing out, Oh, it's so awesome, and and of course Nathan's just sitting back like Yeah. I know I'm great, you know, I know, I created her, you know, what'd you expect? 'Cause even Caleb tried to say things. And then when he questions certain things and Nathan's like, like, excuse me? Like, what are you questioning? My greatness or he's taken aback because you know Caleb's like, Oh no, no, not that I I didn't really understand what his motivation was.

SPEAKER_01 44:14

It's like you just want someone to come here and just like tell you how great you are. He he wants I I know the the goal is to can Ava pass the Turing test. He wants Caleb to give her the Turing test and see if she passes. That's the point of the week or whatever, to observe her for the week and see if she passes. But he's almost like he just I I've already decided she passes, so therefore I don't really care what your opinion is. I just I didn't get it.

SPEAKER_04 44:38

There's more to it because this movie also plays as a a mystery suspense.

SPEAKER_01 44:42

Right.

SPEAKER_04 44:43

We don't see that in the beginning, but towards the middle you sense it. Right. Towards the middle, especially the last act, you definitely see it. Yeah. And it is spelled out at the end what he's really there for. But I'm not gonna give that away because this is such a great film. This is a great film. I mean, I remember watching it, I think we watched it, and I was just blown away.

SPEAKER_01 45:02

Right.

SPEAKER_04 45:03

And then re-watching it, you realize Alex Garland is somebody who has done other movies, but he is a a great writer and he's a really good director. So but this is so uh such an interesting thing. This is where we're talking about where AI and we see things, and then we realize later on when he has the further sessions with Ava, Caleb, that she's the one triggering these power outages. Because there's a moment where she does one and she goes, basically to Caleb, the camera drops, like it's right, and he's like, she's like, You can't trust him, he's a liar.

SPEAKER_01 45:38

Right. And he's like, What? That's what it kind of comes almost like into horror movie territory, right? It's like this weird red light, too, so that's kind of off-putting. Right. And then she's like, He's a liar.

SPEAKER_04 45:47

You can't trust anything he says, right?

SPEAKER_01 45:49

And and you're like, What could he still be watching? You know, does he know this is happening? You're not quite sure.

SPEAKER_04 45:55

Well, even when because Nathan later on goes, What happened? The power winner, I couldn't see, right? Right.

SPEAKER_01 46:00

And he's like, Are you testing? Like, do you know or are you testing me?

SPEAKER_04 46:03

Because Caleb purposely doesn't. He goes, No, we just you know, trying to nothing.

SPEAKER_01 46:09

He says nothing at first, right? She didn't say anything. He goes, Really? Nothing. It's like those gangster movies when the gangster kind of like, You're a rat? You know if there's any rats here? He's like, chokes in his coffee. What? I'm not a rat, yeah. No, I don't know of any rats. You sure? And then it's like, hey, come on, I'm just kidding. And then they know, like, make you feel really uh uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_04 46:30

The stupid, like, oh but yeah, it's interesting that as we go on and he keeps going the test and more outages, and they start discussing, and then you start to uh go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 46:42

Ava is kind of seducing him in a way, I think. I was gonna hit that's what I was gonna hit on, right? Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_04 46:47

And it's like, yeah, now they really start there's a thing between them, and you're like, this is where Could we go out on a date?

SPEAKER_01 46:55

If we were outside, will we go out on a date? She's like, that's what I was missing from the first movie. That right, that uh, I don't know, the agency, the idea of like, hey Caleb, and I'm gonna make jokes with you, and I'm gonna like interact with you like a person.

SPEAKER_04 47:08

And that's what I get with the AI where it's adapting, it's knowing, like, okay, I can sense like what if I wear this, you know, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, because she comes out and gone and an old dress. And she she can sense that there's an attraction now, even though she's not human.

SPEAKER_01 47:22

Right. You know, there's still she could pick up on it. I think she specifically says at one point, he says, like, how do you know I'm attracted to you? She ticks off the reasons why she observes. Right. She's learning.

SPEAKER_04 47:33

Oh, yeah, quick. So But I mean, what's sad is that's I could see that actually happening.

SPEAKER_01 47:39

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's the truth. I mean that's that's that's my idea of what AI is supposed to be. That's the dangerous part, you know, because you don't you don't know what's she, you know, you're supposed to decide for yourself whether she passes the Turing test.

SPEAKER_04 47:54

Right.

SPEAKER_01 47:54

And if she passes, that's kind of a dangerous thing. Right. And she means you can't tell the difference between her and other than the fact she's got this robot body real human girl. Right. Caleb gives it away, obviously, but you know.

SPEAKER_04 48:07

But if you make it up hiding the components and the robotics, could you tell?

SPEAKER_01 48:14

Right. You couldn't. Right. And so that would be scary.

SPEAKER_04 48:18

And and it's interesting, it's as we see Caleb in the beginning, first he takes it as just a robot and he's answering these, you know, he's not a not a dumb guy at all. He's pretty smart. But over the course, human nature takes over, you know, when you've been, like I said earlier, not trying to pick on anybody, but a nerd and kind of isolated, right? Right, you're stuck on your coding and you probably yeah, you isolate yourself. You make game and whatever.

SPEAKER_01 48:44

You got Alicia Vicander like hitting on you.

SPEAKER_04 48:46

Like uh beautiful woman. Right. But yeah, I mean, yeah, your defenses drop down.

SPEAKER_01 48:50

Would you like to go out on a date with me?

unknown 48:52

Fuck yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:53

Right?

SPEAKER_04 48:53

Well, it what's funny is that I don't care if you're not real at all. Nathan even hints that you want to have sex with her. Like he basically says you want to fuck her? Because I've made it where you can basically he did.

SPEAKER_01 49:03

He tells him like, gosh. She has sexual origins, that's right. And there's a sensor so that she can she'll enjoy it.

SPEAKER_04 49:12

Yeah, that's what we go with. Yeah, he's total creep, you know. So, but so you're a human, you're a person, you haven't done things, and this is a and he made the humanoid robot attractive, right? So you're gonna drop those inhibitions of thinking it's a robot and think, oh, and now she's flirting, and she kind of, you know, maybe she likes me, or right, even though it's not real.

SPEAKER_01 49:35

And she's each session is like a date, really. Yeah, it's like that's what you would experience. Well, kind of experience a date. It's like she's asking him questions about his family and where he's from, and blah blah blah.

SPEAKER_04 49:45

And yeah, she's bringing it up.

SPEAKER_01 49:46

She's learning it as a computer, but also she's couching it in a way, and it's coming from this humanoid-looking, you know, device or whatever. Attractive device, right? Right. So you're kind of like there's a gray area there, is like what's happening here. He just thinks she's like interested in him like a woman would be. Right. And therefore, you know.

SPEAKER_04 50:04

And then and then again, probably limited experience with women.

SPEAKER_01 50:08

Sure.

SPEAKER_04 50:09

So this is something new, new territory for right. And this is, you know, it's attracted to me. Right. Wow. It's kind of a boast.

SPEAKER_01 50:16

Right, right.

SPEAKER_04 50:17

I've I cracked not only human, I've cracked AI. Yeah. They like me.

SPEAKER_01 50:21

But you know, and but I can't get into without giving away, but it's like that whole courtship is part of the AI learning. But you have to kind of watch the movie for yourself to see the the twist there that happens toward the end.

SPEAKER_04 50:37

Yeah, it's it's an interesting dynamic, the whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 50:41

Um I guess just to put a little bit more meat on that bone, is like um, you don't know whether she's really into him or whether there's an ulterior motive. Right. And if she's if she's ultr you know, if she's really learning and trying to, you know, emulate being a person, people have ulterior motives all the time. We s we scam each other and defraud each other all the time. And is she doing that or is she really into him interesting interested in him or just learning just trying to practice her, you know, living in interacting skills, interacting, you know, when she's learning about Caleb and his life and how his parents died in an auto accident?

SPEAKER_04 51:16

He was because there's a point where he puts up his shirt and you see a big old scar. Right. You're like, oh, now then it explains what happened. Right. And he goes, Well, what if what happened if you got out? What would you want? And she's like, Oh, I just want to go out and watch people. Oh, people watch.

SPEAKER_01 51:32

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:33

Which is interesting. But again, what is the ulterior behind that watching people, right? Right. I mean, is it just to watch people?

SPEAKER_01 51:41

I mean, or to learn and get more data. Right. You don't know. Right.

SPEAKER_04 51:46

There's a part where Caleb and Nathan get drunk and he takes Nathan's key card and he goes on his computer.

SPEAKER_01 51:55

Right.

SPEAKER_04 51:55

And he learns some interesting things about what's transpired.

SPEAKER_01 52:01

Right. His research process, let's put it that way.

SPEAKER_04 52:03

Right.

SPEAKER_01 52:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 52:04

Well, he he even later on, I mean Oh, this makes me sick.

SPEAKER_01 52:07

Sorry.

SPEAKER_04 52:08

No, but there's parts later where he shows how he developed where he basically created these humanoids, the the brain, because that's really their brain, right?

SPEAKER_01 52:20

Right.

SPEAKER_04 52:20

Instead of it being hardware, it's wetware or something. He goes, I had to learn how to crack it.

SPEAKER_01 52:24

And it's like, but he And it basically has a search engine for a brain. So whatever you type into Google, it already knows or whatever.

SPEAKER_04 52:32

Right. But he just sitting there, it's really just to kind of boast himself, like, oh, how great I am. See, this is what I did.

SPEAKER_01 52:39

Right.

SPEAKER_04 52:39

And of course Caleb's all, oh my God, he's a maze, right? But Nathan's just like, yeah, okay, it's no big deal. I like it's easy, right? Right. So I had to learn how to crack this. And because Caleb says something, he goes, Looks at him like, what'd you say? Like, and puts him down right away. Like, I forget what the question exactly was, but it he asked him something, and then he was like dismissive of it.

SPEAKER_01 53:02

Right. He's very he's subtly condescending from the very beginning. Right. But then toward the end, he just gets these outright just disrespectful. Yeah. In his face. Like, you know.

SPEAKER_04 53:13

Well, there's a part where he goes, Yeah, I you know, I understand. Because he later on, he goes, Caleb understands later, like, what you you pick, you know, what? Because I'm a good coder. Well, you're okay. He slaps him down. This is the part now where there is no subtleness flat.

SPEAKER_01 53:28

Disrespect in your face. What are you gonna do about it? Right. I box. You see me, I got you see me with that shirt off. You know what's up. You know what's up, nerd boy.

SPEAKER_04 53:39

But it it's and then another part where they're having dinner and Kyoko actually spills the and he's like, You st and he starts cussing her out, and just like and Caleb's like, like, whoa, whoa. He goes, No.

SPEAKER_01 53:54

It's like she can't speak English or whatever. She doesn't she knows that I'm mad, you know. Right. She doesn't know that I'm mad, then Caleb corrects him. She could probably context, she knows you're probably mad.

SPEAKER_04 54:04

It's just and but he's just so condescending, even to his his help. Right, right. This movie is what I think was is partly concerning about AI, where we can get confused or uh not even confused, fooled by you know, because how do we not know that that's not happening right now?

SPEAKER_01 54:25

Right. This could almost be a prequel for Blade Runner.

SPEAKER_04 54:28

You're telling me, right?

SPEAKER_01 54:29

So yeah, we're I don't know, a bunch of AI, humanoid type, you know. Who have learned to interact with us, be like us. We wouldn't know. And like I said, separate from the first movie, these actually, these AI, they know how to adapt to the life outside and they do it well. Better than we might actually. Right. It's so um it's a great yeah, that's kind of scary to think about.

SPEAKER_04 54:54

It's a great movie.

SPEAKER_01 54:55

Um, someone that would be way better at your job and never gets tired, knows everything at the you know, snap of a finger.

SPEAKER_04 55:03

And that's why I don't discredit that that's actually gonna happen. Right. Because robotics is coming up, right? And now it's already in play. Right. But something like this, which is humanoid now.

SPEAKER_01 55:14

And to be clear, I mean, I I'm again, I'm not a scientist or a science nerd or any of that, but I know for a fact there are robots that have the that you can't tell they're not human. Well, now if they could put that together, then you we're in trouble. I want to eventually Japan has already worked on sex bots.

SPEAKER_04 55:31

Not to be not to no offense, Japan, I'm not picking on you, but I've seen, and I'm sure China too, but all these tech giants and countries have already perfected that.

SPEAKER_01 55:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 55:40

Because I'm sorry, as we as humans, that's the one thing that sells is sex.

SPEAKER_01 55:44

Right. Because even Nathan tells Caleb about Yeah, he says he made um sexual organs for her, and it's kind of I don't know. It's like, why would you do that unless she's gonna be out in the world interacting with people in the in the real world?

SPEAKER_04 55:58

He does live on that island alone. He can have his own threesomes, right? Or whatever he wants. Not trying to be vulgar here, but you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_01 56:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 56:06

I mean, he didn't do it just just because he did it for himself, too. Right. And he knew that he'd be picking somebody to come be his guinea pig.

SPEAKER_01 56:15

Right. But this guy is supposed to be like a Sergey Brennan type person, like the CEO of Google or the founder of Google. Sure. So you know whatever this is, it's gonna have to it's gonna have to do with money. Sure. And so this is a product basically. It's a prototype, right? And he's had a product, like it's in I'm going to sell this to people. Yeah. So therefore, that's the whole sexual organs type thing or whatever. But it also has this, again, the search engine for a mind, so it can do anything. Right. So you just have to kind of have controls on it or whatever.

SPEAKER_04 56:44

And that's the thing. Can you really control it? And I'll get rich from that. Although I'm not can you really control it though?

SPEAKER_01 56:49

Right. And that's the that's the conundrum. Right. That's the rest of the movie, too. Can you can he even control it? So you know, I won't go any farther than that. Right.

SPEAKER_04 56:59

It's very good movie. Um, starts out kind of light, then you can sense the the suspense thriller part of it. Right. I thoroughly uh recommend this movie. Yes. Um, it's a must see in my opinion, compared to the previous movie. It's uh well thought out, Alex Garland really did a great job. Yeah, you know. This is where again, 13 years are separated between them two movies. Yeah. Great movie.

SPEAKER_01 57:25

Um it's you for while you're doing that, uh just for the title Deus Ex Machina, it's just ex machina, but it's from the term Deus Ex Machina. Right, which means God from the machine. And storytelling, it's a plot device where a seemingly unsolvable problem or hopeless conflict is suddenly and unexpectedly resolved by an improbable random or convenient occurrence. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 57:50

Oh no, real quick, because there's even a point where Caleb says something about God and Nathan goes like he is a god.

SPEAKER_01 57:58

I'm like, there's that god conflict. You're saying that I'm a god. It's like, nah, I didn't actually say, oh yeah, but anyway. Right. Yeah, it just brushes them off. Well, that's that's a given. Yeah. So it's kind of like that's not even something we need to discuss.

SPEAKER_04 58:09

Just the arrogance.

SPEAKER_01 58:11

But I guess it's from the crew the in Greek and Roman theater. Um during a stage play, the crew would literally lure an actor playing God onto the stage using a crane mechanism known as the McCain machine.

SPEAKER_04 58:24

Right.

SPEAKER_01 58:24

And then that would magically fix whatever conflict there was. Anyway, I just think it's interesting why the title and how it ties into the plot of the movie.

SPEAKER_04 58:32

And it fits, like you said. I mean it's so it was budgeted, and it doesn't even look like it. I mean, it's budgeted at 15 million.

SPEAKER_01 58:41

Hmm.

SPEAKER_04 58:42

It doubled its money. I mean, it was a I remember when it came out. It wasn't wide released, it was, I think limited? I want to say a little bit more than limited, but it for whatever reason it didn't catch on. I mean, I think it's a great film. I mean, granted, it doubled its money. But in Hollywood, that's you're doing okay. You're not doing great. It should triple or quadruple that.

SPEAKER_01 59:04

Right.

SPEAKER_04 59:04

But still, the budget, 15. I think you know, 15's a lot of money, but in Hollywood, that's not really a lot. It looks phenomenal.

SPEAKER_01 59:12

Yeah, but this is his directorial debut. Yeah, so 15 is pretty good for first-time record. First time director, yeah, and Oscar Isaac. I don't know what he had under his belt at that point. He probably had a couple things, but it wasn't. He's known now, obviously, but you're trying to slapping him down.

SPEAKER_04 59:27

Oh, I mean he's a god, he can take it.

SPEAKER_01 59:30

There's another little line I like too where he says something about the last person who um disagreed with him or something like that. Oh, I just had him killed, and he's kind of like that's like a joke. Like a joke. But it's like, wait a minute, he has enough money to really do that.

SPEAKER_04 59:43

I know.

SPEAKER_01 59:43

I'm oh, it was the uh the electricians and stuff that were he goes, Oh, you know, I hadn't I didn't want them to tell up what was going on in here, right? And it's like, oh, that guy's not he's not you're not gonna make it out of here, Caleb.

SPEAKER_04 59:57

And part of me believes that he's telling the truth on that. He jokingly says it, but I feel like no, I think he actually did have those people killed. Yeah. Um I can't get a filmography on the kid. But he's I mean, I know before this he had done I think you're right. This really launched him into the next part of his career. I mean, you probably we've probably seen him and stuff, but it was probably secondary, not the Yeah, he's kind of a list, I guess, a minus list, sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:25

I guess.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:26

But yeah, this is definitely a movie that, as you can tell by our response, too big thumbs up.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:32

Too big thumbs up, yeah, definitely. Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:34

In my opinion, it's a really, really good film.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:36

Yeah, and I would say it has a good good combination of everything you really want in a movie. And I would say for me, I like movies that you have to think about them a little bit. Right. And this movie is there's some ethical questions, science questions about AA that they bring up when they're talking to each other. And I like where it's like, oh, okay, well, what do I think about that? You know, you know, they it brings up good points, so I like that aspect of it.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:58

So and you watched it on Netflix. Yeah, it did say Netflix, it said Pluto, it said Tubi, but I don't know how I of course it was actually on Netflix this time.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:08

It wasn't like, you know, this is not in your area. I don't have one of those VPNs, I'm not doing any of that.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:13

So yeah, um, of course, it's also on Amazon. Both movies are on Amazon, right? But of course, I do own both movies, so not that that's a surprise, but uh yes. Um great move, great movie. Yeah, I can't tell you enough. Um, I don't think you'll be disappointed.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:30

Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:31

Really, that's all I really have for the movie and the this the show for me. But you sweet.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:38

I yeah, I I love this movie. I actually like this movie better than the movie that I chose, frankly.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:45

I think it's good though, because it gives us a better perspective on both.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:49

Yeah. You know, but yeah, they're they're both like it's not uh it's not right there in the title because I just have been thinking about AI as a lot of people have been thinking about it. It's very topical right now, obviously.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:58

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:59

Um everyone has an opinion on it, and it's there's no necessarily right or wrong answer, it's just about a whatever's uh whatever person's opinion is. But when I think about it and I think, oh, there's a movie called AI, I wonder what that was like because I don't really remember it. And let me try to watch it again. It's like, oh no, that's not really what I was thinking of. And then you kind of you know tacked on, oh, let me do ex machina, which is closer to like what we actually are are headed for. All right, well, that's it then for the for this week, next week. I kind of want to do weird science over tacking on we're talking about making women in your in your weird compound. That is on my list, but I'll I'll pick something else. We'll see. We'll do that later.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:39

Stay tuned for next week.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:41

Next time my classics.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:42

That's right. All right, kids. All right. That's a wrap for today's movie reviews. Thanks for listening. And remember, if you like what we've heard, make sure you like, subscribe, and rate our show. Let's go get some ice cream.