The Bond

Some monsters leave scars you can’t see and wounds that can reopen without warning. The ultimate survival tool in any trauma survival kit isn’t a manual, a medication, or a meditation app….it’s a person who has fought the same monsters as you. 

For Stacy, that monster was breast cancer, and her journey not only forged an unshakable bond with the host of Plot Twist: Still Alive, but inspired her to create a space where other warriors could meet, share their stories, and support each other through trauma.

In this episode, our hostess with the mostest, Krystal, and her "BREASTIE"  Stacy explore the kind of connection that only emerges when someone truly understands your battle. They discuss how empathy, shared experiences, and mutual support become essential tools for survival, and how these bonds can transform chaos into strength, and fear into resilience. Find out how Plot Twist: Still Alive… this is how we are STILL ALIVE.

 ⚠️ WARNING: 18 and up , dark humor ahead, trauma discussions, and an absurd number of times the word “aglet” is dropped for absolutely no reason.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:09

Platt twist still alive. What's up, everybody? Welcome back to Platt Twist Still Alive. I am your hostess with the most is three-time cancer survivor and chaos coordinator. Crystal with the K. Okay. I have done enough episodes that I didn't even need to fucking edit that. Fuck yeah. And cut. Perfect. Thank you guys so much for coming back. I'm really excited that we are heading into our 20th episode. One of the big things we talk about here at Plot Twist Still Alive is some of the hardest shit you've ever endured. And we always talk about the support and the 1-800 numbers and all of that. But one thing that I think is crucial and has played a huge role in my life, especially with breast cancer, is having support of someone else that's endured the same trauma. So today I am bringing back not one of my besties, one of my bresties, my soul sister, one of the coolest, most hippiest, most amazing women I've ever met. Everybody say hello to Stacy. Say hello to everybody, Stacy. Hello, everybody. On top of us both being besties and bonding over the trauma of breast cancer, we also got to mark a bucket list off. And we actually had a little podcast together briefly, but we will we will get to that in a little bit. But I'm just really happy we got to experience that together because that was really what kicked off me wanting to do this again. And so it's really cool to have you back, very cathartic.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

It's very interesting to see how we have come to this moment.

SPEAKER_02 1:43

I know. Wild, right? Because when we sat and did that, we were like, we should do this again. But you had moved and it kind of wasn't like lining up for us. And I was actually, to be straight up with you, I was waiting to do it together. Like I was like, man, I really want Stace to be part of this. I really and it wasn't lining up and it wasn't lining up. And I'm like, if I wait, which I've done with so many other things, I'm never gonna fucking do it. I was like, if I start it, then she can just come and be on it whenever she fucking feels like talking.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

Hell yeah. I'm so proud that you went with it and took it and you're running with it, and it makes my heart so happy. I love that.

SPEAKER_02 2:15

But it also was one of those things that we both were like, there's so much more to us than breast cancer. And so when I was thinking about what I wanted to do this podcast about, again, you played a huge role in that because you and I were talking about ideas and concepts of like we have a shared note. Yeah. And we and we're still gonna do some of those episodes for sure. I'm already gonna be like emotional. I want you to know that you really inspired me to do it authentically as it is, and and I really don't think Plato's still alive would be what it is without your help and your conversations and our shared note and all of those things. I mean it genuinely. I love you. Oh, stop. Don't get it on. Oh, you don't have aglets. I was she took what she took her little, she has a sweatshirt on and a little, what are those called? Like the tiny tightrope things that you pull to make it tighter. I thought there was an aglet on it, which I've What is an aglet? Oh, you don't know either. I felt like such a fucking peasant. I've seen somebody called it that. So you know on your sneaker, the little like Oh, the the hard thing? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:16

That could like poke your eye out?

SPEAKER_02 3:17

Poke your eye out, kid. I've never had an aglet, I don't think, do that.

SPEAKER_00 3:21

I did not know that that was the name.

SPEAKER_02 3:23

Yeah, it's it's the name. So and they can be metal or they can be like the plastic. So yeah, now you learn something new. How old are you? Today I am 42 and some change. You're gonna be 43 soon. I'm about to be 43. Yes, April baby. So you learn something new, you're welcome. Today you're sold, you learned what the fucking aglet was. And I just learned it, I think three months ago. Oh, so we're right on track. And people are just using it like it's a fucking well-known thing. And I'm like, am I an idiot? See, this makes you wonder about the things they didn't teach you in school. Really? I mean, I think I needed to know that. Right.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

Above like fractions. Things that are hot cross buns. I've used that zero times.

SPEAKER_02 4:04

Okay, okay. All right. By the way, welcome to the the squirrel in chaos that is Stacey and I.

SPEAKER_00 4:11

We do, we are definitely squirrels at a rave.

SPEAKER_02 4:14

We are, for sure. We should do that. A rave together. Okay, we're getting that's the that's the next thing. At it anyway, let's get into it. So, as you guys know, if you've been listening and if you haven't, this is the part in the scary movie where you turn around, bitches, because there will be spoiler alerts. So stop right here. There's a do not enter, there's a big masked murderer out on the loose, okay? Turn around and go to episode one, which is my very first podcast episode. It's called Frank and Titties, and it is about my first breast cancer diagnosis, my second cancer diagnosis, and that will fill you in so you know more about my journey. That way I don't have to fucking do this. We're gonna start Right, because enough about you. Right. Who the hell am I? Who's this podcast? Is this anyway? So, Stacy, I just want you to talk about where you were at in your life and a little bit about your breast cancer journey.

SPEAKER_00 5:02

Yeah. Well, we can take it back um to 2014. I had just turned 31. I had just had basically a commitment ceremony with a person I had been with for six years.

SPEAKER_02 5:16

By the way, Stacy's a lesbian. Oh, that wasn't obvious. No. From what?

SPEAKER_00 5:23

They didn't see you, bitch.

SPEAKER_01 5:25

It's not a final cast.

SPEAKER_00 5:27

Not that that matters. It's just when you say commitment ceremony. Yeah, now that I came out of that closet. Oh no, this is your first video. I'm so sorry. Okay. So I was in a commitment ceremony. I had to say that because gay marriage wasn't legal at the time. That's right. Imagine that. So I w we had this commitment ceremony, and I started working out quite quite a bit during that time, and I knew something wasn't right because I um it hurt when I would do jumping jacks and stuff like that. So I went to see a doctor and was told that no, you're you're 31, everything's fine. Got some sonograms, and they told me that they thought it was just a cyst and to come back in six months. And I I had to kind of keep pushing and advocating for myself. And I finally found a doctor that would take me serious and say, no, something's wrong. And at 31, I was diagnosed with stage three. If I had waited six months, like some of them God only knows. No telling. And so at 31, I started going through this experience, which is it's very weird. And I've written about this kind of journal before. I knew something was wrong, but also I knew that there was gonna be something in my life that I had had to go through that was gonna be really hard like that.

SPEAKER_02 6:44

So you already had those feelings, like there at some point I'm gonna come into this uh an obstacle, but just didn't know what it would be. Right. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 6:51

And it and so when it was all happening, it it was very surreal for me. I automatically went into warrior mode, right? You go into survival mode, you do your thing.

SPEAKER_02 7:01

I call it the cancer tunnel. It's just like you just move through it. You just move through it, right?

SPEAKER_00 7:06

You know, it day by day. Um, and then when you're on the other side of it, you're kind of left with now. I start what just happened.

SPEAKER_02 7:14

Right.

SPEAKER_00 7:14

You like start processing.

SPEAKER_02 7:16

Right.

SPEAKER_00 7:16

You're like it's not until then that you do start processing sometimes. I started during my my treatment and surgeries and everything like that. I was given a business card of a an individual who was young, like myself, going through it. Because when I would sit to get chemo, I felt like I was so young compared to everybody that I was in the room with. And I didn't really have anybody to talk to about it. I had the internet to go and Google.

SPEAKER_02 7:45

Oh, that's the worst fucking place to go. You're gonna die for sure. Right. You're probably gonna die. It's gonna be great.

SPEAKER_00 7:50

And you're you're trying to do that in the midst of surviving, just simple survival is the best way you know how, with the tools that you've been given so far in your life, right? Which no telling what that is. And for me, I didn't have very many tools. Did you have support at that time? I had support. I had my family, I had my partner, I had my co-work. Like, yes, people showed up in different ways.

SPEAKER_02 8:13

But even and I'm asking because of my experience, but even in that, did you feel seen or understood by those people? Or did you feel very lonely at the same time?

SPEAKER_00 8:22

I I felt a little bit lonely in a sense of I didn't want to talk to them and burden them with my thoughts and my fears. Right. Because everybody around me was just trying was being brave, and I felt like I had to be brave. And hindsight, you know, as a family, we've realized like, yeah, we were all just surviving during that time.

SPEAKER_02 8:40

There are feelings of ours, like the survivor feeling and the co-survivor feeling is very parallel. Co-survivor, just anyone that's going through. They didn't want to show me what they were feeling. Of course not, because they didn't want to burden you either. Right. They were like, she's going through it.

SPEAKER_00 8:52

So we were both out of the goodness of love for each other. We were avoiding it, right? Just to get through it. But as I'm going through it, I'm experiencing things that I'm just like, okay, I don't know how to deal with this. And I don't know who to talk to about it. There were support groups and and but the it was kind of the same thing. I didn't go to any because uh in my mind all I pictured were a bunch of older people.

SPEAKER_02 9:15

Because that's what your chemo room looked like. Just a ton of people that are older than you. You're the youngest person. I had the same experience, and you're like, I don't want to talk. Even in chemo, were you talking to people? No, did you I did a little bit, and it was it was weird to have conversations, and some of it made you more scared, and some of it made you grateful, but like it was a most of the people are trying to tell you.

SPEAKER_00 9:36

The hard part is the empath in me sitting in that room. It was like I was absorbing all this sadness.

SPEAKER_02 9:43

And the there was never an empty chair when I was there. No, it was full of people getting chemotherapy, right?

SPEAKER_00 9:48

Which is even another and it makes your thoughts go through different things because you're you you try not to, there's no comparison, right? You realize this is when in the part in your life when you realize that comparison is not a thing. And you're sitting in this room and I'm trying not to compare, but in my mind, I'm wondering, are they gonna be here next week? Why like it scared me to even make a friendship.

SPEAKER_02 10:08

I had a couple people that I spoke to that didn't come back. And then the nurses would tell us.

SPEAKER_00 10:13

Yeah, the nurse would tell you, and then it becomes more right, or you're sitting in there and you're wondering where they're at in their journey, and are they having the same thoughts as me, you know? But you can't just sometimes it's hard to just walk up to a stranger and be like, Are you afraid of dying?

SPEAKER_02 10:28

Uh yeah, and what you know what else I had? This sounds fucked up, but I'm gonna say it anyway. I did have a couple of young people walk into the room and I was like, Oh, thank God there's another person that might get it. And then they'd sit down and they were like, Oh, you're iron deficient, because most oncology offices do blood as well. It's not just oncology. So they were getting like an iron infusion. And I would almost go back to that, fuck, I'm alone again. Like that's where my brain was was with it because I had support as well. But I'd never, don't get me wrong, I would never wish this upon a young person or anybody, really. But when you see that, it's just like they're going through it too, and they looked healthy. So in my head, I'm like, they look healthy. Like, what's their secret? And it's like the secret is they don't have cancer. They're surprised, surprise, bitch, black twist, no cancer. Yeah, but yeah, so you're sitting in here having those similar feelings like what I was talking about in you, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:18

And then you said you you get a card, right? I get a card from one of the nurses, and it's for this young cancer warrior that started a blog called My Bald Blog. You know, it it basically had a website. This was before QR codes. Right. You have to go way back, way back, kids, where you had, you know, you go to the this website. So I instantly went to the website and I read every single entry, and it was the experience of a young cancer warrior and feeling alone and not like and being real, being real and raw and vulnerable of this this whole experience. And it hit me in such a way it's like, yeah, that's exactly how I feel, you know. And so this person instantly became somebody, and like, she gets it. Like, how how do I find more of her? How do how do I find her? It was a very pivotal moment in my cancer journey for me and for my future, obviously. Clearly. It is it was that moment receiving that business card, or why you and I are friends.

SPEAKER_02 12:20

Yeah, and why there's a podcast that exists and all the things we've experienced, and everything in between.

SPEAKER_00 12:24

Looking back and understanding that this is life is a journey. It's beautiful to me to know that that exact moment is something that led up to the moment that uh the life that I have today. So let me get back to the squirrel. So I researched this person, and I don't remember if at that time she had started a nonprofit or was starting it, or it was just the blog. I'm really my chemo brain. It lasts well after. Well, after some things it's never going away quite quite a bit of fog. I live in a fog. I started following her on social media, kind of getting these updates. Fast forward, I get through my journey. I have all my surgeries. I had my very last surgery in 2016. And we're deep flap sisters now. We are deep flap. Which I wasn't when I met you. And but my last surgery wasn't even the deep flap. My last surgery is I had a preventative hysterectomy. After going through the chemo, the radiation, the massectomies, the deep flap, I was on tamoxifen like most my doctor basically having this conversation with me of do you want children? And kind of laid out the whole scenario of if I was planning on having children, this is the path that I would have to take.

SPEAKER_02 13:32

So you're at what, 33 at this point? 32?

SPEAKER_00 13:35

I was, I had just turned 33 when I had my hysterectomy.

SPEAKER_02 13:39

Okay. So you're 32-ish. So I'm 32-ish. And you're having to make a decision about if you want kids because you had none at the time. Right. And it's like, do you want to have a chance of having cancer again or do you want kids? Right.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

You basically have to make this life decision of what's more important, me or my future children.

SPEAKER_02 13:55

Right. And just so people know, tamoxifen is an estrogen suppressant. So when people ask if you're fine now after cancer, they don't realize that like a lot most of us, if not all, are on some sort of hormone blocker hormone thing, or we have full hysterectomies because we have to remove everything so we don't make estrogen if it's estrogen positive. So wanted to give a little education just so people are like, what the hell is that? Right. But when you ask if cancer's, if you're better now or you're okay now, uh, well, I'm being forced into menopause medically. So not, I guess, except for the hot flashes or the dryness or the non-dry. So anyway, that's a rabbit hole. But I'm just saying I wanted to explain that to people because I don't think they always understand when they see you and you have hair and you seem healthy, they don't realize you're still doing things to lower your chances of reoccurrence because once you have it, you have a one in three chance of it returning as stage four, which is incurable. Anyway, sorry, that was my little soapbox. Go.

SPEAKER_00 14:50

I love it. So yeah, well, I'm forced with this decision. Me and my partner made the decision that I should have this hysterectomy. And so I did 2016.

SPEAKER_02 15:00

So, and like obviously, if you have a partner and you're both female, you would technically have a potential opportunity for the other partner to be pregnant. Was that like, how did you feel about making the decision to have the hysterectomy? Did that did you ever want to be pregnant? I I did.

SPEAKER_00 15:16

I think I had the idea of having a family, but I had never been one of those people that was like, yes, I absolutely am going to be a mother. The person I was with at that time did not want to carry. So us making this decision was basically No kids. No kids, or we would foster or adopt.

SPEAKER_02 15:35

Did you mourn or grieve that at all?

SPEAKER_00 15:37

Or were you comfortable with that decision? We made a decision together. We ended up after the surgery, after making this huge life decision. We broke up three three months later. I don't know if I had time to grieve. Because then you were processing it. Because then I was processing.

SPEAKER_02 15:50

But you also had to live with the decision you made alone and to meet other partners that may have had that. So again, I think it's important that the decisions that we have to make are life-altering. You chose to do that in order to give yourself a better chance of living a full life.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

Living a full life. I don't regret it now, but still back then, because I was still going through everything and hadn't had time to process everything, all of the cancer, it made it harder because you know that had been compounding and then that decision. And then right after that, going through a end of a seven, eight-year relationship, and now going into a different, completely different life. So I I didn't, I wasn't processing at the time. In actuality, I was probably acting out in a lot of life decisions I was making. And that's a totally different episode.

SPEAKER_02 16:40

Totally can't wait. We're gonna do that one too.

SPEAKER_00 16:42

As I was navigating this, and it it took a couple years to get to the a point in my life where I even could start processing. I felt I was going through this whole thing. And in that time, my sister moved to new to New Bromfels and was getting involved in the community. And she was telling me that she met this other breast cancer survivor. And she's like, sis, I think you would love her. You love her vibe, blah, blah, blah, this stuff. And I was like, okay, cool. What's her name? And she tells me her name, and I'm like, wait, what? It was the person from the business card, the bald blog. The bald blog. And I was like, you met this person? She was like, Yeah. And I told her about you, and I, you know, she would love to meet with you. My sister put us on an email together and making the introduction person reached out and I wasn't ready. Well, and I think that's another important part of this.

SPEAKER_02 17:34

I wasn't either when I was initially diagnosed, and there was almost an eight-month gap between that and chemo. And then when I was going through chemo, I really did feel very alone, but I had like the relationship ending prior and there was a lot of other things. Other life. We all we all have our own journey in this. Life on top of it. Yes. But I will say that I wasn't ready to talk to anyone. I thought I could just move on. I thought truly I could just move forward and it would not have to be part of my life anymore. And once I'm done with treatment, I'm done. I'm just gonna be okay. It's okay now, right? Yeah. And then I realized it's not fucking okay. Right. And I was processing. So I want people to know it's normal for you to not process during because it's fight or flight. And it's weird how long that survival mechanism inside of you keeps you going. And then a year, two years, sometimes longer later, eventually it hits you. And you're like, what the fuck happened? And you're trying to figure it all out. So you aren't ready yet.

SPEAKER_00 18:25

And that's okay. And and I had already started therapy to start working through these feelings, but I wasn't nowhere. I I was still in the part where I even had a hard time saying I had cancer.

SPEAKER_02 18:36

So you didn't people you couldn't be around someone that like owned it and embraced it.

SPEAKER_00 18:40

Yeah. I didn't know what that looked like. And I I was not ready for it. You know, and that was a self-reflection thing. Looking back, I'm so mad at myself. I missed out on a period of time that I can't get back. So fast forward to almost maybe a year later. And don't quote me on these times. No brain.

SPEAKER_02 18:58

We get to declaim that for life. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:00

It could have been last week. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 19:02

It wasn't, I promise.

SPEAKER_00 19:04

Okay, it wasn't. Through this journey that I was still on in searching for myself, I became, I'm not used this term very loosely. I became a motivational speaker. Right. I was like, okay, I have a story to tell. I have experience. I need to get it out. I had two engagements. One was for the company that I worked for at the time. We had an annual conference, and I got to tell my story to about 250 people. How cool. Yeah, it was really cool. It got my feet wet.

SPEAKER_02 19:37

And if you can't tell, even though, you know, she doesn't have to rock a mic metaphorically, you know, with the dingling. She really can rock a mic and she's very eloquent and a great public speaker. You really are. And that's coming for me, who's also a great public speaker. I own that shit. You are fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

Oh, I appreciate that. So I I dabbled in it, knowing that I, you know, I had this ambition of just getting, I felt like I just needed to get my story, start getting it out. My sister served on the women's chamber of commerce here in New Bronfels and asked me to come and speak to them. And I was like, yeah, that would be awesome. I put together a presentation very similar to the other one I had done. I went to this event and I spoke my story and I spoke my truth. At the end of it, my sister brings this person to me and says, Stacy, this is Jen. And how many years after that first uh email? I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 20:27

I want to say maybe a year. So it had been about a year. You were at a place in your cancer journey where you were ready to talk about it.

SPEAKER_00 20:33

I worked, I was, I had worked through a lot of it to the point. Not only did I want to talk about it, I was like in front of people, screaming it to people.

SPEAKER_02 20:41

I had cancer, I've got a story. Here it is. Let me tell you. Um, I made a whole podcast.

SPEAKER_00 20:48

You knew what you do.

SPEAKER_02 20:49

I feel like it's very normal. Very normal, thing. Very normal.

SPEAKER_00 20:51

Everyone should do it. Yeah. So she brings Jen to me, introduces us, and I fangirled. I'm like, oh my god. I'm the person that didn't respond to you a year ago. Thank you for being here. But it wasn't like that. I I was like, oh my God, it's so great to meet you. She was wanting to tell me, oh my God, you were awesome.

SPEAKER_02 21:10

So she was like fangirling you.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

She was fangirling me and it's like, we need to work together. Like, we need to do something together. Like, we need to talk. There is something here. And so we exchanged information, went about our day. And a couple of weeks later, I hear from her and she's wanting to meet up and let's talk about. Let's just start talking about ideas that we both have to share our stories and to help other women like us because there are a lot of us. She's telling me about the nonprofit that she has started and run and really taking off with. And I was finally in a place where, okay, yeah, I'm ready to do this.

SPEAKER_02 21:44

Well, she was also gonna allow you to use your story to give purpose to that shitty thing, unbeknownst to you.

SPEAKER_00 21:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:51

Because she did that with a lot of us.

SPEAKER_00 21:53

That's that's something she was great at.

SPEAKER_02 21:54

And what she was also great at hearing that, I had a very similar conversation with her. When she first met me, and I she saw a video of me shaving my head and giving a speech. I don't want to say she was like a headhunter, if you will, but like she saw things in people and she would, she even told me one day, she was like, I don't know what, but we're gonna figure something out. Like I, the way that you speak and like the, you know, you're you're outgoing and all these things. Like, she's like, we're gonna figure out how to use that in this nonprofit scenario somehow. Yeah. It's like she saw something in you and knew whatever it was in you, it helped her do something that she wanted to do as well. And that's what was so cool about being a friend with her. Cause we you and I completely different people, but we had that same interaction and connection with this person that I want to say she was almost like a hub. That was part of our magic. It was, really was.

SPEAKER_00 22:42

Knowing now the impact of that and the ripple effect. And I know further down in our story, we'll kind of get to that. But so we start meeting a lot. You know, she lived in New Bromfels. I lived in San Antonio. We would meet in the middle, maybe once every other week and talk and brainstorm. This is where we built this idea of we don't need a support group. I don't want a support group. I want a sisterhood. Other people that are going through this to know that they are not alone and there are people that have been through this. And we're not here to tell you how, but we're here to help you through it. And young people. Young people.

SPEAKER_02 23:19

I mean, young, older, it doesn't matter, but like specifically young people who are diagnosed, because honestly, until you met her, you probably didn't even hear or know of anybody personally that had had breast cancer at 31. And that's why it was so strange for you to sit in a room with a bunch of people. And I don't know if you got this in chemo, but I got everyone looking at me and feeling sad. They had sad eyes to me for being the youngest person in the room, which is a whole nother the cancer people feel bad for me. I'm the saddest one in the chemo room. We're all cancer people, but I'm the saddest.

SPEAKER_00 23:55

They have the sad eyes about me.

SPEAKER_02 23:57

Yeah, it's a new level of fucking. It is a new level of like this is the last thing I want is your pity. We're all cancer people. That is so true.

SPEAKER_00 24:06

Uh but yeah, it's like, well, let's talk to other people our age and we can have sad eyes at each other. But actually, that wasn't it, right? The conversations that we had were we are empowered. We went through this really hard thing. We are empowered from it to have this strength. And there are other women that when you're in it, you don't know that you have because you are in just survival mode. We wanted to be able to bring that to women that are going through it or have gone through it and say, You have more power than you feel right now, spiritually. Like you physically, you feel like you have no power. Sometimes emotionally and spiritually, you feel that you're on empty.

SPEAKER_02 24:43

Well, but the truth is part of this journey is realizing you don't have a lot of control. Power is different. But the control aspect, I think people can fuse for power.

SPEAKER_00 24:52

That is very true.

SPEAKER_02 24:53

And when you give it up, that's the key to like really, I think, coming out of the dark hole and coming up and seeing the light.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

And when you're in that dark hole, it's not like you don't have people extending hands around you. It's some sometimes you have to be very limited in the hand you accept because it could drain what little energy you might have. Exactly. We have these conversations, and it ends up that we developed this program that she wanted to run through the nonprofit called TV Thursday. And that stood for trusting your vulnerability through cancer.

SPEAKER_02 25:28

And we did kind of did the play on TGI Fridays and just so you know, kids, if you're younger than like what, 30 or something, TV TGIF was the best day. Thank God it's Friday, and it was on when we had cable. So back then cable was when shows played, and the only time you got to watch it was from seven to nine on Friday. And if you missed it, you just fucking missed it. There was no until reruns when the show stopped being on the air, basically. So you would watch like three or four things Family Matters, Step by Step. Oh, the dinosaurs. The dinosaurs. Oh, not the mama, not the mama. Yes, all of those. Urkel. Did I do that? Wasn't he on there too?

SPEAKER_00 26:04

Urkel was on there.

SPEAKER_02 26:05

Who? Uh, what else? Do you remember step by step? I remember step by step. Okay. So this was the this was like the Friday night. People went out, but the kids were the jam. Yeah, we would like sit and watch these fucking family shows. Back to back. Back to back episodes of things. And so it was like the best night, the night you looked forward to every week. So they did the play on words. And I think it gets lost in translation now because in the future now, like I'm telling you, like everyone's like, why is TV Thursday? One of my kids even asked me one time because I'm like, I'm going to TV Thursday. They're like, Are there any TVs there? No, it's not. It's never mind. We thought it was cool, but it's stuck. They still call it that. I love that. But you are the founding father of TV Thursday.

SPEAKER_00 26:44

I was and she was the founding mother. She, oh yep, she was. I'm always the daddy.

SPEAKER_02 26:48

You're always the daddy. You really are. You can rock a fucking suit with like nobody's business. I'm telling you.

SPEAKER_00 26:54

So yeah, we we developed this TV Thursday. We had probably at least a year's worth of topics. We did an outline of this is what we want to talk about, in you know, having the themes and what each of those, what we would do, how we would address it, and talking about different things: sexuality, intimacy, family dynamics, going through treatment. Like we had so many things lined up of these are our resources, these are getting people together and saying, This is how you put a wig on. We didn't know if people were gonna show up. We didn't know if it was just gonna be a flop, but we knew that we had to do it. And even if one person showed up, it was worth it.

SPEAKER_02 27:41

I was really nervous to come. I was sweating, I was scared. Like I had met Jen one-on-one, and she was the first person, just like you. And again, not going into a bunch of detail about that. Jen was this fucking light. She had this gift, not only of being like a hub, but like making every person feel like they were seen. You were her best friend. She found you like the most interesting person and made you. She just had this gravitational pull. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

And so I had known her for a few minutes. Which is what I was counting on for this TV. I was like, she'll bring the people. I got the message. Got it.

SPEAKER_02 28:12

Done. Done. Duos. Yes. Yeah, snaps and claps, bitch. But so I had been, I'd known her since that summer. I met her in like June because I got a card at Breastfest is what it was, my fundraiser where I shaved my head. I hit her up. I didn't even know what I wanted from her. I did call her and like immediately she cussed on the phone. She was like, oh shit. And I'm like, oh my God, it's a real person. Because on the card it says Jen, president of this nonprofit. And I'm like, she's gonna be so professional. I've never spoken to a president. I thought a secretary was gonna answer. I'm not kidding.

SPEAKER_00 28:42

Like I really I thought this was awesome.

SPEAKER_02 28:46

Yeah, I did. I don't know if I ever told you that. I really thought like I was gonna get a secretary, they're gonna pencil me in, and she it's funny now because I fucking ran that nonprofit, and like it's just funny now to think.

SPEAKER_00 29:03

I wish I would have had a secretary.

SPEAKER_02 29:05

Jokes on you, surprise, another plot twist. I answered the phone. Actually, now it's Jen's mom that answers the phone, which is super cool. We love mama.

SPEAKER_00 29:15

It's perfect.

SPEAKER_02 29:16

But anyway, and then she answers and she's just like, hello. And I'm like, uh, I got this card, and um, and may I? And she's like, Oh, this is Jen. And I'm like, the president? What? And then she's like, yes, madam president. And she drops something, and she I hear dogs barking, and she's like, oh shit. And I'm like, she's a real per the president's a real person. I just kind of like word vomit. I just like, I don't know what I need, but I got your card at my event, just shaved my head for chemo. And she's like, let's meet for lunch tomorrow. Just let's meet for lunch. And I'm like, the president wants to meet me. Me for lunch. I and so even when I was telling my friends, I'm like, she's like the president of an organization in town. She like runs a nonprofit. And then I meet her, and she was just growing her back from chemo, and it was like this silver. She was rocking it. It was, it looked so good. And she just like just told me she got diagnosed with stage four, which is every breast cancer warrior's nightmare, basically, is to have it reoccur. And she's sitting in front of me with this light and this love and this vivaciousness for life. She has stage four cancer. She just went through chemo for the second time. She's not even 40 years old, 38, I think, is when I met her. And I'm like, whatever the fuck this is, I need to be in this woman's presence around it, because this is the key to get me out of whatever this dark hole is. Fast forward though, you had to have met her around that time frame too, if it was a few months of talking about TV Thursday. But you and I had not met yet.

SPEAKER_00 30:47

We had not met, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:48

We literally just picked this topic right before we started talking. I was like, let's just do having support of someone that understands. And it just dawned on me that the only reason that I even have this topic is not because, you know, oh, I met you. I met Jen and you helped Jen create a space for this exact fucking topic, which is a space for people to support one another who have been through the same trauma. And now I'm getting chills again talking about it because we picked this on a whim. Because we have a lot of things to talk about.

SPEAKER_00 31:18

Well, we needed direction.

SPEAKER_02 31:19

We did something like the rave was about to take off. The rave was happening, and we do that. We scrolled again, so let's get back. We walk in, you guys are having it at like a real estate agent's office, and it's huge. This room is huge. It's like huge conference room set up. Yeah, and there's five whole people there. And so it's weird because you would think it would make you feel a little more like, oh, it's a small crowd. It almost made me more nervous because I'm like, have they all met? Do they know each other? Like what? And I was very, very bald and going actively had just started the Red Devil. Very harsh chemo.

SPEAKER_00 31:54

You walked in and I was like, this bitch looking good, like, you know, you walked in, and that's the crazy thing is the confidence that you walked in with, but knowing what you were going through, you found the way to have this confidence with you with the makeup and the wig, and it drew me to you instantly. And I'm like, oh, she looks like a good time.

SPEAKER_02 32:18

And I am. I'm the best time. Oh, I know. With the worst ideas. But that's a story daddy will have to tell not Stacey.

SPEAKER_00 32:25

For the the paid version.

SPEAKER_02 32:26

This one's for the subscriptions, yes. Absolutely. When I get 100 followers, right now we're at 33 and a half, I think. We're gonna get there. Yeah, it's coming. Yeah, so that and when I walked in, I I don't think I even really hyper-focused on you until you spoke because I was it was in my own head, truly. And so I sat at the front because that's the type of pupil I am. But one thing that obviously you guys know it's not a secret, I can fucking talk and I'm not embarrassed or worried to talk. And I think I was hitting that place that you were when you wanted to public speak of just telling my story to anybody and everybody because I was physically wearing my cancer diagnosis. And so I felt like I almost had to explain it. And I was re I was like, this is what it is, blah, blah, blah, word vomit. And so sitting in that room, you and Jen started the conversation. And you, that's the first time I heard about about your story because it was kind of like you guys were trying to break the ice. I was in awe. You have a piece about you when you speak. You're not the loudest one in the room, you're not the one that's gonna say like the funniest thing. You truly just like have this way of speaking that is so calming.

SPEAKER_00 33:32

And hold on, let me get to the back. No, stop not your aglet.

SPEAKER_02 33:35

You're gonna stab it with your aglet.

SPEAKER_00 33:38

Get back in there, too. That's not gonna work.

SPEAKER_02 33:41

Every time I think of tears, I think of the movie Tropic Thunder, which could never be made nowadays. And he's like, My head movies make my eyes rain. Well, there was a lot of head movie eyes raining that night.

SPEAKER_00 33:56

That night.

SPEAKER_02 33:56

Yeah, I had to tie it in. So when I heard but when I heard you speak again, you had such a calmness about it. And it's crazy to hear someone that went through so much, and I'm in the throes of it. But again, hearing that, it instantly gave me this idea that I'm gonna be okay because I was still very much in this the stage in this where I had no fucking idea. I was I was literally at the dark hole at the bottom. I was at the bottom, darkest place I'd ever been in my life, and probably to this day.

SPEAKER_00 34:23

That says something because you were at your darkest place and you wouldn't, you weren't showing it. That was a goal though, right?

SPEAKER_02 34:30

I wanted people to look at me and not the pity was the worst thing that happened during all of that, and I didn't want to.

SPEAKER_00 34:36

But just to I'll think about it in a and let me get my hippie version right now. I love that.

SPEAKER_02 34:41

Let's go.

SPEAKER_00 34:42

We are all walking around and you don't know what a person is carrying if they are in their darkest moment and putting on the bravest face. You don't know. We are all just humans walking around this earth. Sometimes you go through traumatic shit and it forces you to look in the mirror.

SPEAKER_02 34:59

Yes. So that first meeting though was pivotal not only for you and I, but for the people that were sitting in that meeting for Jen, for the nonprofit. After you guys, I was the first person to talk because you guys were like anyone else. And I was like, I'll go. And I start crying, and I needed my aglet and didn't have it, my tear aglet.

SPEAKER_00 35:21

Everybody should have their eye glut.

SPEAKER_02 35:23

It was so interesting because I had told a couple other people about what was going on and they got the pity look. And it was the first time I sat in a room surrounded by other people going through their own journey, but because of the same trauma, breast cancer. And not one of them looked at me with pity. They looked at me with understanding and empathy, which is different than sympathy. And a lot of people don't realize that. You understand me. None of them felt sorry for me. They understood, they felt a similar pain or a similar fear, and it was beautiful, and it was kind of it was just, it's a different feeling than I've ever had.

SPEAKER_00 35:57

That that night was magical, it was pretty epic. Not just, I mean, some people be like, Oh, you only had five people, and you two of you were eight. It was the catalyst because we walked out or like we ended, you know, that meeting. Jen and I were kind of two of the last ones to leave. And we walk outside. I know what you're gonna say. And it was this we're having this conversation about oh my god, like this is this is what we need to do. But there was the most beautiful lightning storm ever that I've been part of.

SPEAKER_02 36:34

And it was and it's funny because one of my favorite sayings that I've hung on to through that and throughout, because I I've had a lot of different things bad in life, right? Lucky me. I'm God has favorites. Um, but but it it's life's not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain. And especially when you're in the cancer journey, I feel like it it's so telling. Like you, you're like, oh, when this is over, I'll be happy. But like you can't live two years or longer, because that's usually how long it takes. Being miserable, or you'll never fucking get out, not with your sanity. And to have that storm, it just felt so like everything was purposeful, even that. Because I didn't even know this about like your thoughts until years later when we talked about it. When I left and I saw that storm, I thought the same thing. And I'm a lot less hippy-dippy than you are, a lot less. But that storm was so beautiful. It's like I I very rare I've ever seen another like that. I just felt this breath, like I knew life was changing for me. And because again, you guys were the key to getting me out of the hole. Jen might have been that first beacon of light, but all of you continuing to support and like the relationships that we created. So fast forward to the next month, though, right? Of TV Thursday. And the five people that were there were there again, plus 15 or more. It was over 20 something people. It was crazy. Which was also in its own way saddening because you're like, all of these people have endured this and you're not alone at all. And so there's this like the same feeling I felt when I was in, you know, the chemo room where I was like, oh, that person has cancer, and I'm sad like that I would ever want, like, I want someone that understands, but I'm also happy they don't have it. This room was full of people that were young that had cancer, a few people that were older too. But it was also neat because you got people from all walks of life coming through the door. And it was so cool. And in that same one, April, who was one of my guests recently with It Follows, go listen to that if you struggle with relationships and continuing patterns and things. It's a really good, it's a longer one, but it's really good. She's learned so much and changed so much. But I've experienced that myself with relationships. I think you have too. So anyway, wanted to plug that real quick. April was, she was kind of in that place where she didn't ever, she that was the first time she ever said I've had cancer.

SPEAKER_00 38:46

In the first one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:47

In that first one. And it was also, you watched her come in as a different person. I'm talking one month. One month. It was one month. And she came in and she's like so excited. She comes up to us and she's like, Oh my God, you guys, guess what happened? Her breast cancer was found through the pink bus.

SPEAKER_00 39:02

She's like, I got the pink bus to come to my job this month because I want to make sure everybody gets checked because they're the reason I'm it's almost as if she left that first meeting and one of those lightning came down and like struck her and gave her this whole new like, she was a force after that.

SPEAKER_02 39:18

Yes. And she has never stopped being a force. She still is to this day. Yes. And then that's the thing that, like, when you listen to that episode, you're listening to an old version of her, just like I feel like there is an old version of me. Uh this is she's a completely different human being now. Like, she truly is one of the kindest, most giving, most advocating, loving people, gracious. She keeps patient, all of the things. All of them.

SPEAKER_00 39:42

Let me use this for not the acletic. This one's for you, April.

SPEAKER_02 39:45

So dramatic.

SPEAKER_00 39:46

It grew, quadrupled, right? And I'm gonna be honest, uh, Jen and I, we we winged a lot of all. We had all these ideas, we had the things to talk about, we would plan how kind of the the structure of the event, and hands down, we just didn't ever want it to feel like a support group. We weren't gonna sit in a circle. Hi, my name is No, we're all friends getting together, having happy hour, talking about some sh the shitty day that we had because one of us had to have chemo.

SPEAKER_02 40:15

And you guys also didn't shy away from using profanity. People were allowed to express themselves, however, and that was great for me because I say, fuck, like it's going out of style. We had, yeah, we had dinner, we had drinks, and we all opened up. And the things that the topics that you guys picked, you didn't shy away from things that people find taboo. Sex and intimacy is a huge part of our journey in general as women, but then take the layer, the like the older women and the younger women, there were different dynamics. Some of us were single, some of us were married, both were having issues being intimate after losing their breasts. Some were mother-daughter, some were mother-daughter. It was, it was just so eye-opening. And it really, again, when you talk about connections, it's so weird to be in a room with so many different types and so married, unmarried, single, gay, straight, mothers, grandmothers, people that have no kids, like all of them. And we all instantly connected. We all instantly go, I see you and you see me. You see, right? We understand each other.

SPEAKER_00 41:11

Yeah. And the beautiful thing about it, it was never come in together to feel sorry for ourselves. Not once. Never but we made room for people being sad in it. Absolutely. Because we'd all been there. Like some you walk in, we don't know who had a bad day or who's feeling it that day. And it didn't matter because you come together in a way that even if they walked in there saying this was a shitty day, they walked out of there feeling a hundred times better because they knew that they they just had that. They the energy that would feed that we would feed off of each other to gave would give us what we needed to get through another 30 days.

SPEAKER_02 41:47

Yes. It that's what I was gonna say. It did become, and that was one of the biggest things I heard about it from other warriors that had gone. It became their favorite day, like TGIF was for us weekly. It became their favorite day of the month to go and just be listened to and be understood and talk to people that got it. And again, I want to say that for me and you and all of those women, it is a big part. I don't even want to call it like a side portion of healing for me in this. I required this. So just like you need counseling or therapy and you need the medical portion of this, and you need family support and like all of that, because that does still it counts. All of that counts. But you almost have like a side thing next to that family support and that mental health thing that is also going to be support of people that are your peers within that. Whatever monster you battled, they battled the same monster, used different tools, did had a different journey, but the same monster.

SPEAKER_00 42:45

Even though we are not a part of that community, right, on a on a regular basis anymore. Through that, I built such relationships with people that, and you know, obviously you being my breastie, but the different types of relationships with others, too, where in a heartbeat, if they needed me or if I needed them, we we have our own gang.

SPEAKER_02 43:08

Yeah. Gang, gang, bitch. Gang, gang, bitch. Right? Blood in, blood out. I got you.

SPEAKER_00 43:13

Breast in and breast out, breast in and breast out, and then back in, and then yeah. You don't have nipples, me either. Let's fucking go. Let's go. That should be a tattoo or a t-shirt. So, what we've been through since then, being able to kind of be that voice to each other, because life is always different. Life never is never the same, especially, you know, pre-diagnosis, post-diagnosis is a different world that you live in. And everything that happens to you now, cancer has had a a hand in in some way, shape, or form. You even if you go through the journey of therapy and healing, you know, I've gone through enough to where I know you said you would never think cancer, but I've gotten to a point in my journey where I am grateful that this cancer didn't take me, number one, but number two, it forced me. Into myself. It forced me into the skin that I am.

SPEAKER_02 44:03

I definitely give it credit, but I can give my toxic effects credit. You know, thanks, thanks, thanks for the trauma. I've grown, but also fuck off. Yeah. You know, meeting her, having these TV Thursdays, being part of this, finding purpose in our cancer, finding ways to advocate and help other people through our cancer made both of us decide to be part of the board of this organization and continued do. But the problem was COVID hit. COVID, that bitch. But because of COVID, I'm again making this, I'm realizing this right now. Because of COVID, Jen was like, we still got to get our message out there. And we, you know, we need to do something. And she was the one that was like, let's create a podcast.

SPEAKER_00 44:47

And she was like, I had all these points and I didn't know what to get. So I bought all this podcast setup. Yeah, just out of nowhere. Out of nowhere.

SPEAKER_02 44:55

And this is again. She's like, I have an idea.

SPEAKER_00 44:56

Are you in? And we're we didn't even know what the other one is.

SPEAKER_02 45:00

She didn't ex say less, bitch. Yeah. She had me in an inflatable fucking dinosaur costume during COVID, dancing in front of strangers' houses while we were trying to raise money. So we were always in. There's no question. You couldn't tell her no. So we we did. We did a couple episodes. So it's called Finding Your Breast Selves. It's actually still out there. I listen to it a lot for a lot of reasons. I'm going to forewarn you. I do highly suggest if you're going through breast cancer, go ahead and listen. I don't know if the muggles would necessarily appreciate it as much.

SPEAKER_00 45:27

You might not.

SPEAKER_02 45:28

But if you're a co-survivor, you might too. It'll give you some perspective. But I will say this I have learned a lot. I had before learned doing a podcast and editing. I'm still in no way perfect. We back then, it was fucking rough. The only one that was decent was the third one, and that's because we had to get Britney, one of our board members, to fucking fix it for us. And it was so much better. It was like drastic. But we had no idea about like using the mics. Well, you were always quiet sounding. I was always super loud. Like it was it was rough.

SPEAKER_00 46:00

We yeah, and it was only similar. We would sit down and just start talking, and it was just the three of us sitting and talking. And it, yeah, it's hilarious. But it it popped our cherries. It did.

SPEAKER_02 46:10

And we checked it off the bucket list or fuck list. I never knew I wanted to do a podcast, and then we did it. And it sucked because we only did three episodes. I can't remember exactly why. I don't think I think we were just so busy with the COVID shit, trying to continue the nonprofit. You had your own life. I had my own life. She was doing her thing. And at that point, I was done with treatment. Um, I had started growing my hair back. Like this was so it was almost a full year from when we had the first TV Thursday. Yeah, because it started.

SPEAKER_00 46:37

We had a couple, then COVID hit, and then we tried doing the Zoom.

SPEAKER_02 46:40

So different.

SPEAKER_00 46:41

So different. And then it was like, okay, that's not, that's not it. And then the podcast stuff kind of came about. And so yeah, over that course of time, I think more a part of it was we were just trying to figure out how to keep this going, how to keep the momentum, because that's what we were scared of.

SPEAKER_02 46:58

Is it going away?

SPEAKER_00 46:59

Is it going away? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:01

So Jen unfortunately passed before we were able to bring TV Thursday back.

SPEAKER_00 47:07

Do you want to know something, Cosmetic? Yes, of course. We before, like when we had met that December, we talked about TV Thursday and we're like, okay, we're we're picking it back up. And so we put it in our calendars that we were gonna start back up. And the day of her services that evening was a Thursday. And I walked in and my phone went off with the calendar reminder for TV Thursday. Oh. And I just lost it. But I was just like, I hear you. I got you. Right. We we that's when it was like, this has to keep going.

SPEAKER_02 47:42

When you know a person that has this gravitational pull in this light, there's not a fucking seat in in the place, like that's empty for the most part. There were over 200 something people that came to the celebration of life. More came to the funeral, and then some couldn't stay. But this celebration of life was I I had to tell myself, I was just like, you're going to make this happy. You're going to be happy through this and bond with the people that loved her because she wants me to do that. I still had to process after, but I definitely, I felt like I owed that to her was to truly celebrate her life. And it was so like the way that we did it, the way we decorate, everything was a reminder of Jenna and the best parts of Jen and the things she loved the most. And it was, it was so such an honor to be able to do that for her.

SPEAKER_00 48:23

Yeah. And in in true Jen fashion, she was also a catalyst for me for that year because I I had already planned on taking a year off. I had quit my job and I was like, I want to travel. I want to, I'm on this search for myself. And one of the things Jen had helped was connect me with a therapist that she thought would help me achieve that.

SPEAKER_02 48:46

You and I went through that grieving process together and we did completely different things with that grief, but also we really bonded with along with other people together. And I think both of us out of the group, there were a few of us that altered our lives completely after she died. Because just like her coming in altered my life, her going out altered my life.

SPEAKER_00 49:07

Right.

SPEAKER_02 49:07

I chose to continue the nonprofit and help continue running it. And you chose to be on the board and help make sure we got where we needed to be. But then you also decided to go on this incredible once-in-a-lifetime journey. I don't remember how long you were on it, but you went around and just by yourself as a solo female, which again takes huge balls, if you will.

SPEAKER_00 49:28

Daddy.

SPEAKER_02 49:29

Yeah, daddy. She's got that daddy vibe.

SPEAKER_00 49:31

Yeah. I went three months, but it's crazy because for us, going through this survivor guilt, insane survivor guilt, and happened to be like, I'm going to honor her. I'm going to live every day to my fullest. I'm going to do, you know, like you go through all these things for yourself. And that year for me started off with losing her, but it also was such a year of impact of me finding myself, of me finding to light the fire of living again.

SPEAKER_02 50:01

Yeah. So I will say that I had that post-chemo. Like you almost get, I don't know how to explain it. It's like this holy shit, like live life to the fullest right now.

SPEAKER_00 50:10

Yeah, you go YOLO to the YOLO back.

SPEAKER_02 50:12

Yeah, and YOLO in the worst way at times. Like I was doing some really fucking questionable shit. Even when pushing yourself to the limits of morally, physically, emotionally, all of the things. And again, that will be subscription shit because I promise you you're gonna be like job before some stories. But that was the first person that I lost in that way. It happened to me after my friend uh Amanda had passed. I that's why I went to nursing school. It was like fuck this life short. But it's kind of like you fall back into normalcy at some point. You can't live YOLO forever.

SPEAKER_00 50:44

You can't.

SPEAKER_02 50:44

You have to find a balance. And that's you change it.

SPEAKER_00 50:46

You go to quantity to quality.

SPEAKER_02 50:48

Yes. And so you still have YOLO moments, but you're like, okay, we can't do this for six months. My liver, my body, my, you know, all of the things, health cannot handle this. And so with her, now looking back, I don't think I processed. I definitely went YOLO because I was in a place with nursing after COVID where people were a lot more cruel. There was just a lot. And I'm filling my cup with this nonprofit and going, I'm helping people every day that want help, that are grateful for help in the hospital. You don't get that shit. At least not in my experience where I was at. And I was getting burned out with nursing as well. And then when you have health issues, sometimes you look at people, or at least for me, I looked at people that were unhealthy by choice. And it was really hard to treat them at times. And I hate that. But I thought to myself, I've always been a believer in this. If you're a nurse, a teacher, a cop, whatever your job is, if it's related to people or public service, shouldn't be fucking doing it if you're burned out and don't like people anymore. And the nonprofit was making me love people and serve people. And I felt like I wasn't getting that with this job. So so I decided to take a leadership role. And you decided, didn't you kind of postpone your trip?

SPEAKER_00 51:53

Yeah. Um, I definitely did.

SPEAKER_02 51:55

To serve as treasurer was a part of it.

SPEAKER_00 51:58

Part of it. Um, yeah, to to commit to that and to giving everything that I I could into keeping her mission going. And I didn't want to walk away until I, you know, did my part in that.

SPEAKER_02 52:11

So it definitely created a place where you and I both, and not just us. I mean, there were so many people, her mother, her husband, like a lot of people, her friend, other friends on the board, and even some that had left came back just to ensure this woman's mission continued, which was such a beautiful thing. Very few people get that. Very few people make such an impact that an entire community, we even saw it at the first Gala that we had without her. An entire community wanted this to succeed. And I hope and pray that whatever contribution I make on this planet has even like an eighth, an eighth of that. Just the timeless.

SPEAKER_00 52:48

I hope uh same. But also, that was part of why I postponed it. The other part of it was this therapist that it she had introduced me to, which was not a very conventional therapist. I don't she would probably hate that I even called her a therapist.

SPEAKER_02 53:03

You just like we don't like support groups. Right.

SPEAKER_00 53:05

You know, my my first session with her went in such a way that as I continued with her and I had told her, look, this is my goal, this is what I want to do. She's like, You can't do that right now. You're in no position to do that right now. Emotionally, spiritually. She's like, You're not ready.

SPEAKER_02 53:20

And I that's bigger than I've never heard a counselor or therapist be real like that.

SPEAKER_00 53:24

She's not one of those.

SPEAKER_02 53:26

You know, it wow.

SPEAKER_00 53:27

It it it she she was she was on a she's on a gin level.

SPEAKER_02 53:31

I was gonna say she sounds like a real best friend, like a good best friend that's gonna tell you the truth.

SPEAKER_00 53:36

Except she's an older lady that tells you like it is and makes you really look in the mirror and go, Yep, okay. I can see where Jen got some of what she got, yeah, was from this woman, right? The the the depth, the awareness, just the understanding of it, and it leaves you with such a hunger for more. It's the beautiful part of life, is that what we went through was a part of our plan on this earth. What it makes you look at as a and in yourself and the the love that you have to develop for yourself, it's different. So getting connected to this therapist really did something to me and helped me through it too.

SPEAKER_02 54:17

How crazy is it that Jen gave you the therapist that would help her through her grieving process? It's crazy. Wild, right? Right. It's wild. And again, I truly like I don't get hippy-dippy often with people, but you bring it out of me, which I do love because I have thoughts like that, but I am very much so like everything happens for a reason. And I'm also very much like the same person that when it's happening is like, fuck this, fuck this, why is this happening? Because it's okay to question it. But I have also something else I've gained from this is I know the storm will pass and I will get out of this no matter what. Because, like you said, survived cancer now three times. But like I've survived other really fucking hard things. Every hard thing has prepared me for the next hard thing, even though in the moment I hate it. Now there's an acceptance of it too that comes along with it after I'm like the initial like, fuck this. Why is this happening? Do I deserve this? And then I'm like, just chill the fuck out, just accept it. Doesn't mean I don't have to like it or that it's not gonna be horrible like walking through hell, but I will reach another side of this.

SPEAKER_00 55:16

Yeah. So yeah, it's a part of the journey.

SPEAKER_02 55:19

Yeah. And so within two months, though, once we got the nonprofit, we kicked it off and continued. You and I both looked at each other and we're like, we gotta do TV Thursday. It's gotta happen. So we restarted it. I think it was March or April, it was like one of the first ones again.

SPEAKER_00 55:33

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 55:34

I was very surprised at once again the amount of people, like that first one, I think had the most people that ever we had ever had. And we got, we have had meetings fast forward to now, especially the like the Thanksgiving and Christmas. We have it has grown substantially. So it went from just a survivors group, which was all initially we wanted, but as time went on, we wanted it to be able to morph and grow into whatever the warriors needed. Because I think that's the other thing that made it different than a support group, is that we listened. What do you want? What do you want the topics to be? What do you guys want? We want out. What do you want to get out of this? Yes. What do you need to get out of this? Exactly. And then we kind of would go over the things we did in the past. Hey, I would love this. Sex and intimacy is literally like a yearly thing. It's talked about yearly at this point because it's such a huge part of things that a lot of people don't get to talk about. But there was a need at some point for a co-survivor group for the people that supported us. It mine for me, it was my mom, but for other people, it's their sister, their best friend, their husbands. So, and that group always remains small. But Jen's mother, mama, she actually decided after a few months, you know what, I'll do that. So it was nice because we were getting support, but you're only as strong as your weakest link. And typically, if this is your main support person, they need an outlet too. And it's not going to be you because they don't want to talk about it, you know, like they don't want to put that on you and burden you. And so it morphed into that.

SPEAKER_00 56:55

It did.

SPEAKER_02 56:56

And then the, like I said, the holiday ones would have a combination. Sometimes you could even bring your kids. We every third, fourth month, it would be like a fun event. It's not, it's not even about cancer at all. It's just bringing people together, family, friends, and you all know you all had cancer. And all of your kids and your husbands know, hey, you know, our mom or our wife went through this. But it was so fucking cool because there we had up to 65 people at a Thanksgiving one time. And it was just, it's just a beautiful thing. Again, you can't so yeah, describe it. And it it truly is like a sisterhood. And I mean, we had we did not have a man in our group. We still have not. I'm hoping one day they do. And I will like put Pink War Advocates as is the nonprofit. I haven't really put it out there because don't judge them based on my me. Okay. Um, and I was very professional when I worked for them. Absolutely. And, you know, Jen was the founder. She was like the George Washington. I feel like I'm the Thomas Jefferson, I guess, like the third cool president, whatever. And it it was a beautiful part of my life, but they still have TV Thursdays to this day. They are monthly meetups. They have, we also made a stage four, and it's called Here for You, so that stage four warriors could connect because you diagnosed and a newly diagnosed because we realized walking in like I did on that first day, I only had five people to look at and I was wearing my cancer. Someone who is especially going through the throes of it, if they walk into a room, majority of us don't look sick either. And so when you're first in it, you don't realize some people have stage four, Jen did, wouldn't have ever fucking known up until really the last part of her life that she was sick at all. Like you wouldn't know that. So it's scary to walk in a room of those that many people. So the newly diagnosed gives people it's like another layer of the monster that you're fighting, and you're breaking it now down into the stages of it, right? So, like for stage four, like I said, I had we had a lot of feedback from people saying, um, when I tell people I'm stage four in the group, it goes back to the chemo room, right? Everyone with cancer feels sorry for you or afraid of you. They're like, that's my worst fear. Is it coming back? I don't want to do that. And I never felt that way about stage four warriors personally, and I don't think you did either. But I also think because we were friends with Jen, I knew the possibility was there, but a lot of people shied away from being close to her. And you and I leaned in because we're like, we have limited time, let's fucking do this. So I think that I'm not judging people that couldn't do that. I'm just saying I'm built different. My life, I had cancer young.

SPEAKER_00 59:17

We'll talk more about that in our brief episode. Another podcast. Anyway, but TV Thursday just morphed and made room for more support. And out of everything, you know, obviously the nonprofit has so many facets of how they help and keeping the mission going. But Jen was so adamant about this group that we put together that even if the financial part of it went away, this this could always stay. At minimum, the support is there.

SPEAKER_02 59:47

Always the the per the people there. So you don't have to do this by yourself. Yeah. And by yourself means without other people that understand, not without financial, not without family. Like truly, when we say alone, we mean without someone that gets it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:00

Because you get a breast, you get your your breesties out of it. You you have different levels of breasties, and once a month you would get to go see them, and you built these connections and you built these relationships, and some of them become lifelong to where like you you're not going like you can't leave me, right? Like you're no, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:18

I'm stuck, bitch, forever.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:20

We're stuck forever. I think the kind of getting back to why we wanted to do this episode is cancer or not, when you are going through life, finding your breasty, finding some somebody, and it's different from a trauma bond because it is just a level of comfort to be experiencing life with people who can understand why life is hard sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:44

And I think have this not the same, but a same perspective. They they have it's a special perspective. All of us who separate traumas create special perspectives. And for ours, the love of life and the the living the life to the fullest portion, I think is there. Call each other and you'll be the person. Like when you were gonna go on your trip, some people might have given you all the reasons not to. When you and I talk, it's like, okay, how are you doing it? When are you doing it? Like that's so exciting. We are so excited for one another. And and I even have, even in recent years, I've had people like, man, you always travel. Man, you go everywhere. How do you make time? And I'm like, I want to do this. That is now, I don't even consider traveling at this point in my life or experiencing things a luxury. It's a requirement. I have to have it to feed my soul. Otherwise, what the fuck am I doing here?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:32

Yeah, you start to learn what fills your tank. And you and you you have a shift in perspective where it's less about things and more about experiences and more about the people and the connections and the memories that you make.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:44

But there's also the part of the journey that's the hard part of it is that the trauma is always there. So the cancer experience for me, it's uh it's not at the forefront of my mind every day. In fact, it takes like willpower in the beginning to push it to the back. But now it's just like I live with the idea, I know that it's there, I know that the thought of it coming back. But there are some days out of nowhere, sometimes it's in October or around your cancer versory, which mine are both cancer versary and for my second diagnosis and breast cancer awareness month, that it's so all-encompassing and consuming that it feels like just like grief, you're like revisiting it and it feels like it just happened or you're in it again. And you, I I go back to saying, You're still someone that I can call with that, that maybe my husband wouldn't understand, or another friend wouldn't understand, or they'll say, Oh, I'm sorry. Oh, you're having a bad day. It's like this is something different. Yeah. I, you and I can speak on that level and understand why you feel that way. It's not there, I don't even have to explain why. I'm just like, it's seasonal almost. Like I, it can't I sometimes I'm in that mood or in that place where I'm sad and I'm frustrated, or I just feel really low. And then I'm like, shit, it's October, no wonder. It's like my body remembers that. And but if I need to talk about it, my breastie is a person that I can call. You're the person I can call. And I do have uh a couple other friends like that that no, you're not allowed.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:05

Sorry. No.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:06

Bresties, specifically about the cancer portion. Okay, yeah, not for everything. Okay, not for everything. But it's again, I don't think our our relationships that are like this, all of my other relationships are different than this relationship and not a better or worse. It's just it's so neat to connect on that level.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:22

Yeah, it's just a different need in our lives.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:25

Yeah. And so I ended up serving the nonprofit for four years. You took this incredible, life-changing trip, and you did come back different and you did refocus. And not, it wasn't just a checkoff, it was like to truly experience all of the national parks that you got to go and camp again, solo, which takes a lot of confidence within yourself. And I'm sure I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:47

I just probably why that my coach was like, You can't go, you're not ready. You can't be alone right now with your thoughts. That's scary.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:55

That's fucking scary, exactly. Probably it was a safety thing. Oh, for sure. Um, but now you're back, and you know, in those last the last few years, both of us have shifted again. You know, you moved and you found your person. I sure did. So different. I found my person. And it's so crazy because I go back and like even if they were listening to the our uh finding your breast selves, they're gonna hear us and where we were.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:21

We were different people, so different.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:24

And it's just so cool to have each other through that ride and like still be here, even with the ebbs and flows of life and where you're at and moving and like me being with the nonprofit and then leaving the nonprofit and now starting this and my journey as a mother, and we have different partners. We our bond has never changed, it's stronger, yeah. And and our ability to understand one another, you and I sometimes don't well, especially when you were gone. We didn't talk for months. I wasn't even able to come visit you while you were up there. I mean, thanks, cancer again, and like all of that. That's ranked titties too. Go listen to that. There's my plug. But I want to tell people this is not something that I am suggesting as like, oh, maybe you should get support of people that understand. I'm telling you, you need this in your journey. If it's not breast cancer, that's totally okay. It could be grief, it could be uh losing a family member, it could be drug addiction, it could be, you know, alcoholism, whatever it is, there's so many things. It could be sexual trauma. You need people that understand this. And I'm also going to uh have a side note on that. Not every group is gonna be for you. I actually now running the nonprofit, being part of TV Thursday, I know what an anomaly TV Thursday is in comparison to other groups through other people's experiences. And I even joined a breast cancer group on Facebook just to see what it looked like. It is a lot darker. There's a lot more sad, sadness, and anger in that. And I would not have thrived in an environment that was like that. So you need to find what works for you. Right. You need to find if that is where you do thrive. I'm not again. Not knocking it, it wasn't for me. Don't it's just like a doctor or anything else. I say the advocation advocating portion of this. Make sure that you're finding support of people that have been through that that makes sense for you. Right. And it's not a toxic trauma bond. No.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:15

Right. This is an enhancement.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:18

Right. The goal is to learn and grow from that. You can't change whatever that experience was. You can't change the loss or the grief or the diagnosis or any of those things. That goes back to letting go of the control. But what you can do is you two, you, you or whoever, and even if it's just finding another person, it doesn't have to be a group group, but finding someone to bond with and discuss, and it should evolve out of, out of cancer or out of whatever that was. For us, it was cancer. Our our relationship isn't based on cancer. Oh no. It's based on everything else in life and what we've done with our lives and the things we've done in spite of those things. I really think it's a necessity. When I talk about resources, I think that's where you need to look is if you feel alone and you feel like you're at the dark hole at the bottom, find your breast self. Find your breasty.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:04

Find one.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:04

And I'm using breasty loosely. Find someone that has been through or slain the same monster or is fighting the same monster that you are. Make sure it's a good fit. Find a way to trust yourself through vulnerability. TV Thursday. Did I do that? T G I F. Not the mama. Not the mama. Anyway, well, babe, I'm super fucking stoked. I'm not even kidding. Like, even on every podcast, even if I'm talking to people I know, there's usually like a like a sweaty version in the beginning. I get sweaty every time I start. And so like even the beginning when I didn't have to do a double take on my inner my intro. Thanks, 20 episodes. By the way, snaps and fucking claps for me because I've done 20 episodes. I am currently in the top 50%, not to brag or anything. Top 50% of podcasts. And most people don't make, I think it's more than they give up. They give up. I don't think they make more than, I think it's 10 episodes or something. I'll verify, but I'm double bitch. And I do want to also say this morning when I checked, because I do look at this shit every day, I have 399 downloads before I'm at 2,500. 2,500, and I've been out roughly six months. We're going on something. I think we need to make a push. Yeah. So what I'm going to ask is if you're listening to this and you've been an avid listener, even if this is the first episode, please share. And it even if it's not this episode, please share your favorite episode. Also find leave us a review as well. Because I think that's really important. People, and I want it to be honest, but bitch, you know it's a five-star. Don't play with me, okay? Don't even. Don't even. If you haven't followed me on Facebook or s or Instagram at Plotwistello Alive, you're doing it wrong because you know way more about my life than like most people. If they just listened. So thank you guys for listening. Again, you do not have to do any of this alone. And even if you're not sure and you need a resource or you are battling and your brain just can't handle it, I mean this from the bottom of my heart. Email me or me or an alt. Or if you want to talk to Stacey, I will fucking get you in touch with her. We are here. We want to make sure that people feel supported through their hardest shit. We love that. That's why there's a TV Thursday. Um, and I will also go ahead and on my blog put their information with the TV Thursday group because again, the founding father, Daddy, said to go. And and it is one of the best parts, if not the best. I would say the best part, honestly.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:31

Since I've been back to Texas, that is on my list is to go to, you know, go to another.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:37

I just did recently. Did you? It was really great. Can we go? Yes, let's do it. Okay. It was really great. And it was left in uh two warriors, uh, very, very, very good hands, Jamie and Shanna. They do a fantastic job.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:49

It's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:49

They really do. They're extremely and it's funny because Shanna reminds me of me a little bit, and Jamie reminds me of you a little bit with like their the playoff of each other. Yeah. I I encourage you if you are a breast cancer survivor and you need a resource, uh, that is it. And there's another one that is a national, it's called Bresties. I think they actually have an app and stuff. They're like all hip and everything. And from what I understand, I've known a couple of women, I've met them several times through Jen, and um, they're pretty incredible as well. So if you need a national resource, you're not in the San Antonio, New Bronfels area, please look them up. I'll put them on my blog along with any others that I find. I'm not sending you to some boohoo cry about it support group. Okay, sorry. Not fucking doing it. But yeah, email us at plot twist stillalive at gmail.com, follow us on socials, and Soul Sister, I guess we gotta end it the right way. So we're gonna do a high five, still alive and do your evil laugh.