Silence Of The Lamb

There’s always one in the family who doesn’t quite fit. The one who sees too much. The one who questions what everyone else pretends is normal.

Meg was that one.

The “white sheep.”

Raised in a home where addiction, neglect, and volatility weren’t exceptions… they were routine. Where chaos had a rhythm, and silence was safer than truth. And when she finally found the courage to speak, to reach for someone outside the noise, her words didn’t echo… they disappeared. Brushed off. Minimized. Met with silence that felt louder than anything she had lived through.

But here is the part that nobody saw coming....

She refused to stay quiet.

This episode walks through the shadows of a childhood shaped by instability and survival, and into the unsettling realization that sometimes the people meant to protect you are part of the story you have to break away from.

Because upbringing may shape you… but it doesn’t get to finish you.

Ultimately, being the one who was different, the “white sheep,” became her key to freedom, allowing her to break the mold, create a new path, and end the cycle of generational trauma.

Meg was the lamb who could not be silenced.

⚠️ 18+ dark humor, drug addiction, neglect, trauma

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:10

Plat twist.

SPEAKER_02 0:13

Still a live. What's up, everybody? Welcome back to Plat Twist Still. I am your hostess with the most is three-time cancer survivor and chaos coordinator, Crystal with a K. Welcome back, you guys. Oh my gosh, Becky. I'm so excited. This is actually episode 21, and I have an incredible guest. And today we're going to talk about how a childhood works for somebody who isn't really set up for success. In fact, a lot of the things that they experienced may be a lot of people's reason to fail or to fall down the addiction hole or to fall down the mental health hole. So we're going to talk about what it's like to be the white sheep, if you will, of the family. And my guest today is Meg. Say hello to everybody, Meg. Hello, everyone. I want you to start by just kind of telling me what your childhood dynamic was and what that looked like for you.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

First, just to start as I'm really good at getting really deep, really fast. The small talk, that's where I really struggle. So just cut the shit. Let's just get into it. So here we are. We'll just get real deep, real fast. It can get awkward. I can swing. I'm ready, baby. Do it. So growing up, I lived with my mom. She was a single mother. I had an older sister who was six years older than me. And we also had my mom's parents who lived about a block away. It would be like a three-minute walk to get to them. Very heavily involved in my life. So that was kind of my core immediate family. And initially, growing up, it was everything was pretty normal. Um, we were on welfare. My mom did not work. Um, the majority of my life, my mom did not work. And when I was about five, and this is a lot of information I gathered as I was older talking to other people. My mom started using drugs from her best friend at the time. The reasoning was they were putting it in their coffee so they could try to lose weight. Coffee drugs.

SPEAKER_02 2:05

Was this like no dos or something? What was you know?

SPEAKER_01 2:08

I've no, I'm a s I mean, they were what type of drug was poor, so I'm assuming it was like meth, right? Because that's like the the cheap stuff. Just jumping into meth. I didn't even know it was like a thing. Or like a I don't know. We'll just go with meth.

SPEAKER_02 2:21

We'll go with meth.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

I'm pretty sure it was meth because I was like my hometown is really, really small, really rural, uh Northern California town, but also really impoverished.

SPEAKER_02 2:30

Yeah, so I have to make a joke because that's what we do here. But the best part of waking up is some methane.

SPEAKER_01 2:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 2:39

Okay, sorry.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

That's great. No, I love it. Thank you. Yeah. Um, I mean, because it doesn't make sense to me, but apparently to them, I mean, they wanted to lose weight.

SPEAKER_02 2:48

So why not put a little bit in your sometimes things aren't bad in certain places, and like it's not looked at as a weird thing because other people around you do it, especially in some impoverished places. Like some things are just acceptable, including drugs, and it's just kind of par for the course in that area. So yeah, I I don't know. I I don't think it's acceptable anywhere.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

You know, I mean, I guess people were like easy and convenient, so meth. That's how it started from what I've gathered. And pretty much everything kind of went downhill from there. I was sheltered a little bit from the knowledge that that's what was going on. But as time went on, it was like I was just forgotten. Because when your focus is your next hit, right? Because it doesn't just state the little bit in your coffee.

SPEAKER_02 3:32

No, you start chasing the dragon. Correct. Start chasing that high.

SPEAKER_01 3:35

Absolutely. And so that's what happened. My mom eventually got a boyfriend who became a live-in boyfriend. He was okay to me. I never had an issue with him, but I was also very young. But I remember going and visiting my mom's other best friend in Arizona between five and six. We went to Arizona and my mom had a big old black eye. What she said was they were in an accident. But I'm convinced that her boyfriend hit her and she was just covering it up because my mom was an incredibly insecure person, and I think he was the main reason why she felt like she needed to lose weight. But at that point, to me, when I see pictures, she wasn't big. My sister really did her best of like sheltering me, like go play, which at the time probably felt mean. In reality, I never saw his abusive ways, other than when his son came to live. And I remember his son getting in trouble, and he took him to the bathroom and started hitting him with a belt. And I remember just being like, I will stand in this corner all day to not get hit with the belt. And eventually they did break up. I don't really know why. Um, but my mom continued to use drugs.

SPEAKER_02 4:39

Now, was he a drug user as well? Yes, you know. Okay, so they were using together.

SPEAKER_01 4:43

Yeah, pretty much most of my mom's friends at this point, most people I would say, oh, I kind of grew up with them, were all using. If not, if it wasn't alcohol, it was definitely drugs. The biggest issue at this point, and I and it's hard because I don't think people realize that when you say the umbrella abuse, like neglect falls technically under that umbrella. Because just because I wasn't getting yelled at all the time or physically getting hit, I it's still a form of abuse because I often went to bed hungry. I didn't have clean clothes.

SPEAKER_02 5:18

Well, you're also being exposed to people using drugs and being taken care of by people that are under the influence of drugs or alcohol majority of the time. So if there was an emergent situation, they may not be able to help you.

SPEAKER_01 5:30

Right. Growing up, my sister really was like my hero. Like she was who I wanted to be. I loved her, I thought she was the most beautiful person, right? Everything about her. But as she was getting older, a lot of stuff, a lot of mental health things were coming out that I think between my mom and my grandparents, they just thought was like adolescence.

SPEAKER_02 5:50

Yeah, teenager acting out, right. I mean, that's pretty normal, especially if they're in a house that they may not be getting attention because of what was going on in your house.

SPEAKER_01 5:59

Right. And my sister really could be like that poster child for gateway drugs because my whole family smoked, but my grandparents, my mom, everyone I knew smoked. Cigarettes? Yes, cigarettes. Yeah, you know, the whole like you watch the 80s and early 90s movies, and everyone has an ashtray in their house. Like totally normal. It was pretty normal, it was pretty standard. And so everyone smoked, and I remember my sister, I think she was probably in like sixth grade, and she would start, she was starting to sneak their cigarettes, and she was starting to like go out and smoke them. And she really did that that stair step. She went from cigarettes to pot to alcohol, right? All the way up to some really hardcore stuff. And how old was she when she was doing that cooking? Yeah. So when she would have started the cigarettes, it would have been she what 12 all the way to the hardcore stuff, probably 14, 15 years ago. It's only two years, and it was just like oh yeah, wow. Yeah. And looking back, you know, and obviously now having children of my own, where my oldest is 12 and she's gonna be 13 this year. Could you even imagine?

SPEAKER_02 7:03

That's fucking crazy, right? Yes. My daughter's 13. There's no way. No, like she would be freaked out, she'd come home crying if someone tried to smoke a cigarette in front of her that was her age.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

Right. But my sister was also very much a people pleaser. She wanted people to think she was cool, she was very insecure. So that risky behavior really was something that she was drawn to.

SPEAKER_02 7:23

So when you were watching her six years younger and she's 12, did you look at those things at that time and go, I want to try those things too? Or were you watching the people around you do things that you thought in your head, no, I never want to do those things?

SPEAKER_01 7:38

For me, I never ever was like drawn to want to even smoke cigarettes. I hated them. I have asthma because of them. So for me, even the cigarettes, I would harp on like my whole life about the cigarettes, about not smoking around me, you know, because I was just that, I was that annoying, obnoxious little kid. Like, yeah, this is growing.

SPEAKER_02 7:56

So you were not a people pleaser. No. Exact opposite.

SPEAKER_01 7:59

It sounds like yeah, no, I definitely I wanted people to like me just like anyone would. Right. But I definitely know I was way too stubborn. If I was gonna go take out the trash and I was on my way to take out the trash, I definitely was. If you were like, oh good, you're taking out the trash, I would look and I would stop taking out the trash. I'm done now. Fine. Fucking take your own trash out. And and my family really parented a lot, you know, between my grandparents and my mom, like on guilt. My grandma was the best at it. I love my grandma, amazing woman, very selfless, but she was the generation who lets parent on guilt, right? And it would work on my sister, right? It's like, oh, you want to spend the night with me? And my sister wouldn't want to, and she was like, Oh, I guess, guess I'll just be alone. And you know, and she would start that guilt, my sister would stay, but she would be frustrated, and I would internally feel bad when she would do stuff like that, but just no, I'm going to my friends, and then be riddled with guilt inside, but not but you already, even at that age, were setting boundaries for you.

SPEAKER_02 8:55

It sounds like yeah. I mean, I just I really just wanted what I wanted. No, but that I but it I wish I didn't learn that. It sounds so little, but I didn't learn that until like this year. At 40 years old, I had to figure out boundaries. You were setting them with a family member that you loved and adored in your story. I'm sure that that time and again served you very well. So, what whatever you want to call it, stubbornness or whatever, I call it healthy boundaries. You don't do something you don't want to do. That's a healthy boundary. So kudos to you as a kid for fucking having that, just having that ability because I didn't. As a kid, I don't think most kids do.

SPEAKER_01 9:31

Yeah, I mean, and I definitely think it was personality. I wanted what I wanted, and I wanted to go to my friend's house. Like, I could spend the night with my grandma anytime. And I did a lot because they always had food. So that was a big draw. Cable, so I gotta watch TV when I was there, right? So, like, and they they really were my grandparents, their home. That was like the center point, right? That was safety. That was the constant my whole life. They were always there, they were always available. Dinner served on the table every night, right? So if I wanted to, I could walk over and just have dinner with them. No questions asked. I didn't always do that. You know, if it was dark, my I was really little, right? I wasn't about to go do that. But as I got older, if I was hungry and I knew I needed food or wanted something, I could go right over, walk in, and they're like, What are you doing here? Came for dinner. So that was your stability right there. Absolutely. They really were it was the the good, but also my grandma really was just an enabler. She was codependent with my mom. My mom would call, I don't have enough money to pay, you know, for the electric bill. And my grandma, of course, oh well, we can't let them go without heat and you know air, whatever, right? So she'd pay it, even though my mom just took her electric bill money and went and spent it somewhere else because she knew I can't just ask her for money, but she'll pay for my bills because she can't, she won't, she's not gonna let her precious grandchildren. Right.

SPEAKER_02 10:52

I was gonna say, I'm sure that you guys played a major role in that. The guilt that she might have been one that give guilt trips, but it's probably also because she felt very guilty. Right. And she knew how how that felt. So it sounds like you guys were the catalyst for her doing that more. She might have already been like that with your mom, but when somebody has kids and you're like my grandbabies are gonna be with no lights or electricity, oh yeah, that's another level. And it sucks because it can hold somebody hostage in that codependent relationship.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

Right, because in reality, my mom never hit rock bottom fully, right? She never had a safety net, your mom or her mom. Correct. Your grandma. Yeah, and and I think that that led to a lot of the stuff that happened because my grandma, I think, when even probably my papa, like they were just a lot in denial. I knew not everyone lives like this. Because obviously, my grandparents live different than we live, because my mom was also somewhere between a pack rat and a hoarder, and we weren't dirty, but the house was not like picked up, it was not tidy really ever, unless we're had an inspection because we lived in low-income housing. So they'd come in every once in a while to check, make sure everything worked, and we would like crazy clean.

SPEAKER_02 12:02

You'd stage, stage a clean house, you know, get in, you know. And then you're like, they're gone.

SPEAKER_01 12:07

Okay, back to the basically, basically. So I knew that not everyone lived like us, but that this was my normal. We didn't have anything to eat, so I had to eat, you know, I put together Cheerios and peanut butter and syrup, and that's what I ate for breakfast. I think that they were really in denial about those things, or that as my sister started to get older and get a whole lot more volatile, when I'm telling them that she pinned me down and refused to let me call my grandma because she was, you know, hurting me or doing something to me, they were like, Oh, Megan, you're just being dramatic. And that's really where a lot of that started, that where they would pretty much take my sister's side a lot of the time. I don't know if it's because she was six years older. I don't know if they just couldn't imagine that she would hold me down on a toilet because my grandma was like, Megan, you need to listen to her, what she says. She's babysitting you. And if she says sit on that toilet, you sit on a toilet. I don't care. So of course my sister then is like, you heard her, go sit on the toilet, right? Which sounds so silly. But at the same time, when you're six years old and they're 12 years old pinning me.

SPEAKER_02 13:14

She's much bigger than you. Yeah. Again, it sounds like your voice really wasn't heard or believed. And the people that were the volatile ones, i.e., your mother who was drug using, and your sister who was on that path and being volatile and rebellious and all these other things still had more, I guess, their ear more than you did. And for you, I'm sure that had to be defeating as a kid to never be listened to or believed. Did you continue trying to tell them? Did that start getting worse?

SPEAKER_01 13:42

I kept a lot inside. I always joke, I'm like, you guys would be so mad at me if I shared every thought right now. But I was also not one that was just gonna say, oh no, that didn't happen you know. So I think that over time I would still say certain things. I would never just ignore it or let her do any just anything. And as I got older, obviously I got just as strong as her, right? Maybe not as crazy as her, but still I could I could defend myself a little better. Um, she wasn't gonna be able to hold me on a toilet.

SPEAKER_02 14:13

Right. I'm glad to hear that that didn't break your spirit as a kid because I think some cries for help or, you know, just even to say this person's hurting me. And even if it is another kid that's much older, oftentimes if is nothing happens, they stop telling people. And it sounds like you didn't do that. You continued telling, even though it fell amongst deaf ears. Again, to have that like intestinal fortitude as a kid, you already had tools that adult people don't have, and you that was just in core ingrained in who you were, but it also served you very well growing up in a place that was as tumultuous and and difficult as this probably was at times.

SPEAKER_01 14:50

Yeah, and I think because everything was so like brushed aside or dismissed, I think a part of me that just assumed this was kind of normal, right? So if they don't care, no one else is gonna care, right? So it's not like I went to school and told everyone what my sister did. You just kind of accepted it. Right. Still told them, but accepted it. Right. Because if they're not gonna do anything, that was all subconscious. I don't even think that that was really what was going through my head at the time. I just saw my sister as someone who got really, really angry in weird moments because she'd have really good moments. My sister often was the one who was left in charge of me when my mom would go out. A core memory was for whatever reason, in our tiny little apartment, we put all our dirty clothes in like the hallway, which was literally like a door frame wide, not a very big spot. But that's where all our dirty clothes went. It was this big pile. And I distinctly remember multiple times I'd wake up in the middle of the night and I couldn't find my mom. My mom would be gone. I would lay there crying most of the time. Who would find me but my sister and who would take me back to bed? My sister, who would climb into bed with me until I fell asleep? My sister, right? So even though she was volatile, she it wasn't without compassion. And it sounds like she was the maternal figure in your life. Oh, absolutely. Because as time went on, and I don't mean like when I got to be a teenager, like I'm saying like seven, eight years old. I around that time I distinctly like stopped hugging my mom. I think there was a lot of reasons why, but subconsciously it was I don't want that, I don't need you. I very rarely told anyone I I love you other than my grandparents. Still to this day, I still struggle. Like people, you know, my best friends will leave. All right, bye, I love you. And I'm over here like, I love you too. It hurts. Like, I don't I don't know why. Like I can say it, I say it to my husband, I say it to my kids, but I don't know. There's still something in there that makes that so difficult because I think it's too vulnerable or it feels fake. Having people constantly say, I love you, I love you, I love you, and then in turn don't take care of you.

SPEAKER_02 16:46

Or hurt you. Love is shown. Love isn't always, it's not just the word. And regardless of your love language, I mean, we can that's a whole fucking episode of whatever, but people like to hear that they're loved unless they come from a place like you did, where the people that loved them were neglectful or hurt them sometimes. And so for me, it's like you need action to back that. Words are just words, and I can understand why you would shy away from that. I completely get that.

SPEAKER_01 17:11

In what you were saying with my sister being more of a maternal figure, she really was, and I would have defended her to my grave 100%. Never once feared for my life with my sister, maybe my physical safety, because I definitely showed up at school multiple times with black eyes, um, like double black eyes, and I'd get called in the office. And one of the times I think it was probably because they were kind of over me showing up with bruises. So it happened that often. Like they were.

SPEAKER_02 17:40

Even if it's like once every couple months, that's a lot. That's a any any black eye on a kid. But back then it was a little different, I feel like.

SPEAKER_01 17:47

Yeah, you know, plus I was I was a really I was I really was a big tomboy. I mean, I was always kind of covered in bruises like a normal kid, but I think there was the other signs, right? The I have no doubt that they knew. I mean, as teachers, as the office ladies, like because I went to the same school all through elementary, small town, like they've seen me, they know. They know I'm showing up smelling and reeking of cigarettes, and my clothes are a little dirtier maybe than others.

SPEAKER_02 18:15

I think this is also telling what type of student were you? Were you one to act out?

SPEAKER_01 18:19

Were you? I really do think that a lot of this and why I could see through a lot of stuff was I and this is not trying to toot my own horn or anything, but I really was just smart. School for me was my escape. That's where I felt safe, that's where I liked learning. I wanted to do well. But I also think because it was my escape, I wanted them to I didn't get in trouble. I didn't want them to be mad at me. So you were a people pleaser at school to a degree. Like I still was the obnox I was an obnoxious or maybe an obnoxious kid.

SPEAKER_02 18:48

Maybe it was pleasing yourself. Like you, you actually got credit for being good. You got credit like on your grades. So that was like you being able to kind of fill your own cup, if you will. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 18:59

Okay. Absolutely. Like I I liked the achievement. I liked someone saying you're smart.

SPEAKER_02 19:04

Well, then toot, toot, bitch. You should toot that horn. You know? That and and again, knowing that that young and having at least that outlet is fantastic. So because you were a good student, but they also saw these other signs when they were pulling you in. You did say you told your grandparents when you were pulled in at school, did you tell or did you hide it?

SPEAKER_01 19:22

Well, so one of the times, because my sister had gotten mad at me and something happened, I don't remember, and it was her way of showing me that she's bigger and stronger and she can do what she wants, is she sat there for who knows how long, just boxer slapping my face back and forth as much as she felt like it. Wow, which is what gave me double black eyes. Right. And so I went to school because whatever. No one told me not to.

SPEAKER_02 19:47

You weren't gonna miss school. You're smart and you get straight A's and you want an honor roll, bitch.

SPEAKER_01 19:51

So you know, but it's like I've been setting my own alarm, getting myself up. You know, I'm walking to school, my sister's dead asleep because she would refuse to go to school, so she's just sleeping. My mom's asleep, right? I've been doing that myself since I was like thinking first grade. And and I was also really young because my birthday is in November. So I started kindergarten at four, you know, doing that. So now I'm I think I was like in fourth grade when that happened. For that that one, because that one was very noticeable. The yeah, I would think so. Yeah, and so they called me to the office, and I there was, you know, some person, and not even know who they tried telling me it was, right? Because the office ladies are, you know, they know me and they're like, Megan, it's okay, you're gonna go and talk with them, it's no big deal, blah blah blah. So they're just chatting, just I'm like, why am I in here, you know? And then they were like, Oh, you know, we noticed your your eyes, like, you know, how'd that happen? I'm like, Well, I'll tell them kind of the truth. A portion. And it was, oh, well, me and my sister were horsing around, and we just got into like a slap fight and didn't realize that we were going that hard or that much or that long, whatever, right?

SPEAKER_02 20:55

So you downplayed.

SPEAKER_01 20:56

Oh, absolutely. Extremely well, because I knew that she would get in trouble. I watched enough lifetime movies, like and you're like, they could make a fucking movie out of me, you know. So I really did downplay even to myself. She did these things, but I think I could see even then that something was wrong with my sister. There were other issues that she was struggling with, and this this wasn't her, this is just something she's doing. And so I think for me, it was I'm again gonna protect my sister at all costs. Because if she leaves, who else would take care of you? Right. And on top of it, I knew that everyone would be mad. How dare you say that? Because again, they hadn't believed me yet. Why would they believe that she had actually done that on purpose? Right? They would then try to gaslight me and say, Oh, well, she must have just been playing and and you're taking it the wrong way, and you're just mad, and you're you're trying to get her in trouble. Or what were you doing? Yes. Or I'm sure you're not innocent in this either.

SPEAKER_02 21:54

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 21:55

Like split the baby, you both get are are at fault in some way.

SPEAKER_02 21:58

Yes. So you talk. You told them that miniature version of the downplayed version. And did anything happen? I don't know. It may have been part of the case that they were building. Was this the first time you had spoken to somebody at the school? Outside of normal school people. Right. Okay. So this happens. You tell them any lie. You don't know what comes of it. And so you, I assume, just carry on as normal.

SPEAKER_01 22:22

I have my own memory of a moment. And then I've gathered information from my sister, from my mom, from my mom's best friend. And what had happened was one day my sister had her friend over, her best friend at the time. They were at the house because, you know, why make anyone go to school? I was at school. Of course you were. Right. Of course I was. But they weren't. They were ditching, and my mom just let them. I was probably eight-ish.

SPEAKER_02 22:46

So she's about 14 now, 15. So she is using drugs at this point? Yes. Okay. So everyone in your household basically is using drugs. Correct. Except you.

SPEAKER_01 22:56

Yes. And there was probably about 22 people roughly who were living with the colours.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

I'm sorry, what?

SPEAKER_01 23:01

How many, you know, in an apartment? What do they call it? Like a flop house kind of. That's what they call it. That's what you were living in. Kind of, right? So it really was the like the place where when people needed to come, like literally, go, can I crash? There was a nut there's a couple other apartments, right? That were also users, for all I know. Because again, I to the degree of liter what I never saw anyone use drugs. So this was more of a place they'd come and sleep? Correct. Okay. And there was a couple who, like, for sure were living with us, but there were other people who would just end up crashing there.

SPEAKER_02 23:36

So would your mom and sister use at your home, or would they go elsewhere and you just knew later on that they were? Oh, I have no doubt that they used at home. You just didn't directly see it. Correct. Okay. They knew enough to not do it in front of you.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

Right. And I and I think that it was also, I mean, I was your typical 90s kid who was outside till the lights turned on, right? Yes.

SPEAKER_02 23:56

So you weren't really home like that anyway, except for to go to bed. Right.

SPEAKER_01 23:58

I didn't want to be inside.

SPEAKER_02 23:59

And there wasn't snacks. You were grandma and grandpa's friend.

SPEAKER_01 24:02

Right. Well, and then eventually in the apartment complex, the majority of people who lived in the back where we lived were all Mexican. And I really ate because of them. Because So they fed you. Oh yeah. I I mean it's pretty cultural, you know. But also they were there because they're trying to, you know, do better and better life for them, right? They're not doing drugs. That's just where they live. They're living with them. And most of most of the parents couldn't speak English. I gathered enough Spanish to figure it out, and half the time I didn't know what I was eating because they would just, here you go, this is what's for dinner. So you were like, this tongue is delicious. Oh, yeah. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 24:40

Moi delicioso. I can teach you some Spanish. I speak fluent Spanish.

SPEAKER_01 24:46

I was at my friends' houses a lot, like in their apartments, and well, and they were embracing you and letting you be in a safe space, feeding you. I mean, full-blown embracing, right? Where the chanclaws are coming off and I'm getting them thrown at me just as much as any other child in the house. Right, right. Well, we're cleaning, everyone's cleaning. So you just you were just full absorbed into that though.

SPEAKER_02 25:10

Yeah. Again, it's it sounds like you had a couple of refuges to to help you through. Definitely.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

And I and I do think a lot of them probably knew what was going on. You know, I have a feeling that not all of them were necessarily here legally, so they definitely weren't about to complain to anyone. Of course not. They couldn't put themselves at risk. Correct. Right.

SPEAKER_02 25:32

But they did what they could to help you in that situation.

SPEAKER_01 25:35

Right. This was what they could do. One of the families that lived across, like I our door faced their door. I eventually, her and I were roommates in college.

SPEAKER_02 25:44

Wow. So these families are there for you. Again, your grandparents are to a degree, but they're also kind of ignoring when you when you are getting hurt physically. Your sister used to be. Oh, yeah, the story. We were totally Yeah, no, we squirrel. I love squirrel. This is that's what I'm here for. It's just to bring squirrel and back. Okay. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 26:02

So yeah. So this moment, right, where again, kind of the flop house, because I guess that that is necessary to know that all these people are coming to just knock out, right, during the day. Apparently, users like to be up at night. I don't yeah. Like, think you'd want to use and be up. She'd let's get through the day. I don't know, whatever. Be a productive user. That's mean. That's probably the ADHD in me who's like, oh my gosh, I want to be productive.

SPEAKER_02 26:26

That's yeah, that's the that's the person that you can actually get a diagnosis for legal speed.

SPEAKER_01 26:31

That's right. Because your brain works that way. But well, and it unfortunate doesn't feel like speed when I take it. Of course. It's an opposite effect. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. So my mom and her best friend were going somewhere to run errands because my mom also didn't drive. She did not get a license until I was in sixth grade. And again, my sister and her best friend are still in the apartment. A guy that we always called Big Dave. He shows up right before they leave and he's looking for somewhere to crash. And my mom's like, Oh yeah, like, feel free, go in my bedroom. You can use my bed. No one's there. And so he goes in. My mom's best friend's like, Are you sure? Like, you're, you know, my sister and her best friend, like, they're still in the in the apartment. Are you are you comfortable with them being here while he's here? She's like, Yeah, he's just going to crash. Like, he's gonna be asleep for hours. You know, maybe I'll get lucky tonight if I let him stay. So that was really her motivation. So they leave, and at some point, Big Dave wakes up and he s starts using, but he is using heroin. At up to this point, I don't think my sister had used that yet. They come out, he's using, and he asks, Oh, do you want some? My sister's best friend is like, nah, I think I'm good. But my sister, she was like, Yeah, I'll try some. Unfortunately, Big Dave is so out of it at this point. He is attempting to give her some. I don't really know. I wasn't there. I'm getting all this secondhand. But it from what I've gathered is he did not do it well a lot of the times that he was trying until he finally did get it. But I think he attempted many times. But later that night, I am now home, and my sister comes running out, yet screaming that she's on fire. Literally in our front room doing stop, drop, and roll, gripping at her arms, like wiping them, like trying to as if she's literally got has fire on her.

SPEAKER_02 28:14

Had you ever seen her do anything like this?

SPEAKER_01 28:16

Um, not to this degree. My sister definitely was a hypochondriac, like everything that was wrong with her ever, she was dying. She was very dramatic. Everything was exaggerated. So this wasn't necessarily out of the ordinary, but it was a lot more extreme. Yeah. And I remember looking at my mom, like, are you gonna do something? Like, what the heck is going on? Because at the very least, she's obviously crazy. Rewind.

SPEAKER_02 28:36

Big Dave's there, helps her shoot up heroin who knows how fucking many times. Right. Your mom is home. She just got home.

SPEAKER_01 28:44

No, we we were watching, I think we were watching TV.

SPEAKER_02 28:46

So like So she had come home, y'all were chilling. Yeah. So when you told her, like, what are we doing or what are we gonna do? Like, what did she respond?

SPEAKER_01 28:54

Well, I didn't really I didn't say anything, I just kind of looked at her. And all my mom could do was just sit there and go, Oh my gosh, you're fine, you're fine. You oh you're being we like stop being weird, stop being dramatic, you're perfectly fine, and just kind of kept brushing it off. And so I thought my sister was just trying to get attention. Obviously, I know now that my sister was actually on the verge of overdosing. Holy shit. Drug addicts don't think the most logically. So in this case, I do believe my mom had that internal struggle of, oh my gosh, what is she doing? What's happening? And panicked because if this is what I think this is, I can't take her to the emergency room.

SPEAKER_02 29:31

So you guys, she eventually came to the conclusion, like shit, something's actually wrong. I think she knew. So no one took her in.

SPEAKER_01 29:38

No.

SPEAKER_02 29:38

Well, and I'm saying that because even if you're in a home and people are using, they that does happen. You run into the conflict of holy shit, something bad happened. And now, as somebody who's either under the influence at the time or has drugs on them, drugs in their system, they're not gonna make the moral decision all the time that's right, or even the decision that may mean life or death. You guys were in a position where that could have been really fucking horrible, like she could have died. I didn't know any of them are using drugs. And so this happens. Yes, and the friend is over there, I assume. Her friend you said was there, but didn't use drugs. Correct. What happens after that? If if they nobody called or did anything, then what happened?

SPEAKER_01 30:13

There was another night where my sister had gone out because again, there wasn't there were no rules. And my sister had gone with friends, they were hanging out at the bowling alley drinking, and my sister had got blackout drunk, and when she woke up to some a man over her, and she had no bottoms on. And I remember that moment as well, because her and her best friend came in, they're they're still drunk, um, only to come out and realize that there were police in my house, and it was because my sister was being raped. And do you know who called the cops that night? Oh no, I have no idea actually. The guy eventually was convicted for not only my sister but multiple people. Was he an adult? I think he was like 18. So a technical adult, 18. Like 14 or 15. Yeah, correct.

SPEAKER_02 30:56

I'm glad to hear he was convicted. He was 18 months. 18 months. 18 months. The justice system is broken. Okay, continue.

SPEAKER_01 31:04

No, it is, it's very broken. So I think that was another added layer to the issue. Between those two things, that's what led my mom to start talking to someone. I didn't really know. I thought, I kind of thought, because again, we were on welfare, we had to my mom had to do different things, right, in order to keep her money, like to keep the stuff coming in, like the food stamps or whatever. So I actually, I think in my head, I thought he was some sort of caseworker, right? For like that kind of stuff. I was at school and I got called out early. And I showed up to the office, and all the office ladies are standing, and they're like, Hey, Megan, like you're good. Do you know who so-and-so is? And I said, Yeah, I've seen him before. The same man that had been coming. And they're like, Well, he is a police officer, but he's like a social work police officer. It was like he did both. Like he was technically a police officer, but his main thing was social work. He they're like, You're gonna go with him, and he's gonna explain the rest on the way. But like, I think that they were trying to make reassure me that you're not just going with a stranger. Like, this is okay to go with this person that you may or may not know.

SPEAKER_02 32:09

Yeah, I mean, telling you that they're law enforcement, you automatically, especially as a kid, trust that. You're like, okay, like this person, and you had seen him a lot. So I'm sure that him not being a complete stranger might have helped a little bit. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 32:23

Right. So we walk to his his vehicle and we get in and he is like, Do you like, do you know? Like he starts just asking questions, like, do you know what foster care is? And I said, Yes, again, watched enough lifetime movies. I know what that is.

SPEAKER_02 32:34

Um I love that our education is based on fucking lifetime movies, which is like the worst case scenarios. But again, right, I absolutely believe now. I say that as a joke all the time. Like, I lived in a lifetime movie for a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 32:46

Kind of as did you, yeah, a little bit, you know. So he's asking, like, do I know what that is? Like, yeah, I do. And he's like, All right, well, we're gonna be going back to your house. Um, he's like, Your mom and your grandma are both there. They've packed like a bag for you with your stuff in it because I'm gonna be taking you to a foster home. He's like, So when you get home, essentially you just said, like, you're allowed, you can hug your grandma, you can, you know, do whatever. He's like, but you're not allowed to have any physical contact with your mom. In my head, I was like, Okay. Okay, like I would have, right? Actually, in my head, I was like, Oh, good, an excuse. And so when I showed up, I remember because my grand, they're both like just bawling, right? Just hysterically crying. And so, and I'm just like, why can't I go with my grandma? Like, this doesn't make any sense. But they did, they had a bag for me, and I grabbed it and said goodbye, hugged my grandma, and then we left. And really, he's like, Do you have any on the way there? He's like, Do you have any questions? And I was like, Well, where's my sister? And that was really the only thing I cared about. And then he said, Oh, well, she's gonna be, she's in a she's going to a group home. I'm like, Well, why can't we go together? And he's like, Because I don't even know how he worded it, because no one told me what was going on at all. I think I was like a 24 hour four hours in the foster home before I finally got told why I had been removed from my home. So when I showed up to the foster home, there was another, she was a teenager, she was another foster child in the home as well. Um, and then they had a biological, like two or three-year-old. I think she was two. So it was actually the other foster child. She's a teenager, but obviously still a child, who was the she was the one that actually told me. She's like, Well, I overheard everyone talking before you came. Cause I was like, I just want to know why I'm here. Like, why won't anyone tell me what's going on? And again, we're talking to you know, a nine nine-year-old at this point, but also a nine-year-old who had been taking care of herself for years now. I felt at the time really smart. Like, why why can't why are they treating me like a kid? A kid.

SPEAKER_02 34:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:47

Right. And so she was just like, I overheard them talking, and I'm pretty sure it's because your mom and your sister have been using drugs. And I just was like, like, you did this? Like, really? Like, I thought I thought we were smarter than this, you know. And I just remember getting so angry that here I am having to sleep in some stranger's house that like now I have to be the kid who goes and foster home, right?

SPEAKER_02 35:07

Like, so up until that point as a kid, as a nine-year-old, did you know they were using drugs? Or did you so this was like a shock to you? This was like, holy shit, what? Right. Okay, yeah. So this was like the fucking wool is ripped from your eyes, you're white sheep of the family. And so this is all brand new to you. And I'm sure as you continued over the next few years, I guess you would go back and start looking and realizing, oh yeah, oh wow. So if they did drugs, it like helps you connect the dots more.

SPEAKER_01 35:37

Oh, definitely. And even now, like I can still from that point on, you know, you can see it. That innocence is gone. Oh, yeah. It was it was an interesting like shift though, because once I knew that and I understood all that had happened, that timeline before, everything, the way we were living, all that stuff. From that point on, like I remember going to friends' houses later in situations and being like, nothing is actually situational like wrong. These people are on drugs. It's like a new sixth sense. Yeah, been opening. Spidey sense.

SPEAKER_02 36:08

Oh, yeah. You're a dog, you're like a drug dog at this point. Sniffing a message. Right. I I want to I do want to say this being an addict doesn't make you a bad person. Correct. And a lot of people that are addicts, a lot of times they just do not have the help that they need, and they're using it as a coping mechanism. Right. Not always. I don't think it gives anyone the right to abuse or neglect their children, and you are still putting an addiction over your kids. Right. That being said, you're not intrinsically bad because you use you're in a foster home, your sister's in a group home, your mom. I'm imagining, just from my own experience with CPS, is probably getting a plan of action in order to get you guys back. Yes. Because typically they almost always, unless it's something insane, give a parent an opportunity to earn their children back.

SPEAKER_01 36:52

Right. Well, because that's the number one goal is reunification. Right. Even now. Statistically, it is more harming to a child to be removed from their home indefinitely than to not be like than to have stayed, like psychologically.

SPEAKER_02 37:05

I think, yes. And I I agree to disagree on that. I think there are certain extremes. Absolutely. And I'm sure you do too. Again, that's another topic for another time.

SPEAKER_01 37:13

Yes. So that's why reunification is the goal. Right. And they want to see the parents do better.

SPEAKER_02 37:18

Right. Right. And they're trying to set them up for success as well.

SPEAKER_01 37:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 37:22

So how long were you in this foster home? Who what was your experience there overall? And like, did you end up getting to go home with her eventually?

SPEAKER_01 37:30

Right. When you are from an impoverished family, one of the things that often doesn't get really talked about is something you learn implicitly from them and the way that your family will talk. We see movies portray where rich people look down on poor people, right? That's usually the trope in stuff. But poor people do the same exact thing where they totally look down on like wealthy people. And so I think for me, going into this, to me, almost like sterile environment, right? Because they had white carpet and everything was really clean. Which again, my grandparents' house was really clean. Don't get me wrong. But it was like everything was just too perfect when you're being ripped from pure chaos in a teeny tiny two-bedroom apartment, and now you're getting placed in a home that actually functions. And then one of the things that happens when you're in foster care is they you have to go and do like a physical, like a normal checkup, right? The doctor. I mean, it's not that I didn't go to the doctor, like we went, I went to the doctor, but they did a they do like a whole crazy checkup, and then apparently I was anemic. So that was like one of the main memories I have is them I had to take iron and they would put it in the juice. And so my juice always tasted tasted weird. Yeah. So even now, like I can literally taste it because I hated it so bad. Right. But that's like a weird memory. But I just remember feeling so uncomfortable the whole time. Like nothing happened, nothing weird happened. They even were like, you know, you get allowance every week. So in theory, you should love it, right?

SPEAKER_02 38:55

But it felt so uncomfortable because you had grown up in a chaotic place.

SPEAKER_01 39:01

Right. What? And that was your normal. I mean, how many people go over to a friend's house and it's kind of weird and awkward? It's like, oh, we want this, but like you make your friend go ask, or you know, that kind of thing. It's the same, same kind of stuff. You were a guest. I was a guest. I'm not gonna say that they made it that way. They did not treat me like more or less. I was just there, right? Like in a good right, but I but I think for me, I felt like I I don't belong here. I uh I don't remember how long I was actually with them. All I do remember is that even when we're going to court, that's where the judge gave my sister and myself to my grandparents for kinship care. So they got guardianship of us. So we were still technically under the foster care system, but it's like the kinship version. So it's like you're going to live with family.

SPEAKER_02 39:46

Which was still down the street from your mom, right? Yes. Was she allowed to see you at that point? Eventually. So she earned that back.

SPEAKER_01 39:52

Yeah. So it was like it started off where, like, again, I I couldn't even hug her goodbye. And it got to we could have super, I think we got like an hour of supervised visitation, but the caseworker had to be there. And then eventually it was two hours, and the caseworker didn't have to be there, like it could just be supervised by my grandparents, but someone else had to be there that was like allowed, like so my papa or my grandma. And then eventually it got to where we could do overnights. Total time though, I don't even think it was a year.

SPEAKER_02 40:19

And I'm assuming under this, your mom had to test drug-free and do parenting classes and things like that. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:27

I'm sure there was a whole list of all kinds of things.

SPEAKER_02 40:29

And so is this the was this the turning point for her where she got clean? Overall, yeah. Trying to earn you guys back to be able to bring you up.

SPEAKER_01 40:36

She did, she jumped through every hoop. I mean, to to be reunified in less than a year.

SPEAKER_02 40:40

I have to give her credit. A lot of parents, even nowadays, won't, even if they're not on drugs, they won't do the bare minimum to see their kids. They're like better off somewhere else. Doesn't matter to me. Like, even though your mom was an addict, that was at least enough of a turning point, not to say again what your future looked like with her, that she made the effort to jump through the hoops that they set in front of her. Absolutely. So I give credit there.

SPEAKER_01 41:02

Yeah, and and I do too. I think that was absolutely her rock bottom in that moment. And at the end of the day, she told on herself, right? She made the choice to come clean to stay. Which is huge. Right.

SPEAKER_02 41:13

The self, the self-awareness and the ability to say, This is me, I need to get help. That is again very big. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:20

So eventually we my sister Ann, I both went back to live with my mom. And you were back crushing it because you're smart. Doot. I mean, even when I was in the you know, the foster home, right? So going to school and doing fine and you know. So that part stayed consistent for you. Yeah, school. I still still went to school. My sister was on independent study. So during that time when my grandparents first got her us, she was on what they called a blackout, where she was allowed to have zero contact with anyone other than us. But as a teenager, she wants to go back out and do all the things, right? She is still an addict. I just remember, and eventually, so she's on blackout, and then eventually she went what they called like a brownout, where I know it doesn't make sense. Where she just shuts her pants all the time. I mean, yes, exactly. Where there were like certain like specific people that she could, she could go do certain things. She was allowed to like go to church, right? Stuff like that. Not that we went to church, but like that was like, you know, like because before she literally couldn't do anything, couldn't go anywhere. And then and it slowly like opened up. And then I remember my sister did get clean, and I think eventually like was starting to make better choices. And then one night my sister was like, Oh, I wanna, I want to introduce you to my boyfriend. They were together for quite a while. Like, so my sister was about to turn 16 when they started dating, they were two years apart. He had different kinds of issues, but like not ones that were like directly in your face, and he'll and I eventually grew up like he was like my brother because they stayed together for a while while a long time. Yeah, they did. And eventually, at some point, for I don't know, it was a gift. I don't I don't remember if it was like a Christmas gift or a birthday gift, I don't know. She gave my sister her own room. So we live in a two-bedroom apartment. So now all of a sudden I'm sharing a room with my mom. Well, my sister gets her own room, right? To the late eventually, my mom let him come live with us. So during this whole time though, everyone is clean. Because I started fifth grade shortly after grade. She started working at Walmart, you know, got it because before that she was just working at Papa Murphy's, which um that's how we ate was uh when you when she did bring food, it was Papa Murphy's. Yeah, I don't know. Do you like it now? No, okay, no, we had it so much that our oven, no matter what you cooked in it, would smell like Papa Murphy's and every food that you ever ate at corn dog tasted like a pizza.

SPEAKER_02 43:43

Kinda, you know, even and then you're drinking your iron juice to wash it.

SPEAKER_01 43:47

Right. So yeah, I can't do Papa Murphy's anymore. But my mom did eventually get a job at Walmart and was doing well up through like mid eighth grade, was doing really well, and then she got injured at work, and then they fired her and her physical where she was getting physical therapy done for injury um was in a chiropractic office and the main the owner was like no this isn't right opened up a case for her and they presented a lawsuit to Walmart because they had fired her for her injury wow um and he ended up open opening up a case for her of course it's Walmart and when those big places realize oh you're not gonna win yeah they settled and so my mom So your mom got a settlement though correct but my mom really clung to that whole once an addict always an addict to the point that it was a crutch. I understand in a a how they all operate and the the reasons why they say the things that they say or teach the way that they teach, you know.

SPEAKER_02 44:44

So it was an excuse or used as an excuse for well I'm an addict I'm always an addict versus the opposite of I can't use which is what they mean you can't use because you can't just use like a once once in a while you are addicted. Correct. Okay so it was the way that she viewed it or yes yeah that's right.

SPEAKER_01 45:05

So and so from there I can look back and realize that although she was clean from like illegal drugs, I do recall when my mom my grandma would go in for surgeries. My grandma hated Vicodin absolutely hated it would make her sick so she never really take it but then my mom would come and I would I all the time oh you know mom my my knee's been really bugging me like do you do you think you have like a couple extra Vicodin that I could just you you know use until you know whatever. Because every time she'd go to the doctor and complain that her knees hurt or whatever, what are they gonna tell her? Take some telanol. Take some ibuprofen and lose weight because at this point my mom is now like genuinely morbidly obese. Okay. So she moved on to using uh pills it wasn't yeah it was more like when she could get it and I think when she could justify it. Right. It wasn't like all the time it was just when she could but it was enough that hindsight can see it. The path was a little dizzy for her. Right.

SPEAKER_02 45:59

So it wasn't just a clean straight narrow all the way out oh and then everything turned into a perfect dream. Right. I mean she was still struggling with addiction. Yes. And what about your sister had her boyfriend move in was your sister even though she was clean still volatile how you were describing it correct me if I'm wrong is like she was your sister and you always loved her but then when she'd have these like volatile moments she'd be like I don't know who that is like she it's almost a disconnect from your sister.

SPEAKER_01 46:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:27

Did she continue that path and what happened with that?

SPEAKER_01 46:30

Yeah absolutely she it probably was just a little better maybe because she had a little she had different outlets right she had therapist I think at that point she was now on like anxiety medication. So they were treating her for something so she was yeah so she she had some treatment she had some other outlets obviously now she has a boyfriend like that kind of stuff so she would still have those moments where because everything was just a big deal.

SPEAKER_02 46:51

Everything was always some intense right so we're talking like we're we're swinging from one extreme to the other.

SPEAKER_01 46:58

Yes and she would sometimes get maybe a little manic. It wasn't like the it would make sense why she was there I guess like it wasn't just out of the blue and you and you had to wait for her to come down like it wasn't quite like that but it was very like when her her motivation her in acting anything that she did was all based on her feelings right everything had to do with how she felt which meant that if she felt like this happened that's that's what happened. That must have been her perception for everything that was right and she couldn't make room for other people's view or perspective right or feelings or stepping outside of herself and saying oh maybe I could see how you took it that way. Right. And she very rarely would put other people's feelings before her own. And her boyfriend was also a little bit volatile in his own ways but it was hard to see because again I was still a kid and I was still outside till the lights turned on and I guess this is normal right is it not normal for parents to let their 16 year old daughter's boyfriend moved in like I don't know and then he No it's not it's not I know I know this now. But really the pivotal moment for my sister came when she got pregnant and she got pregnant at 17 and it was fine the town you live in the family you're growing up in like it's not ideal but it is what it is kind of thing. And hey at least he's committed to her this I mean he's living with her right and he and they want and they want to be a family and all this stuff. So she turned 18 during the pregnancy and at some point she went in for the normal anatomy scan and they're like something's wrong but our devices aren't advanced enough to figure it out we just know something's wrong. So we're gonna send you to this crazy doctor's office in Sacramento where they actually have what you we you would need right it's just a fancier ultrasound really they go level two scan. Yeah so they go to that and again she's six months pregnant now because by the time she gets the appointment and being told that her baby has a chromosomal issue.

SPEAKER_02 49:03

There's a couple of tristomies that one means the baby's basically born um a lot of times you can see it in their heart and their brain hemisphere. So that's yeah so they only had three chambers in the heart and the brain had it developed immediately when they're born or they live a really terrible life for about a year and then they die.

SPEAKER_01 49:19

Typically and so when they're telling her all this again she's 18 boyfriend's 20 my family has no idea and they're not they've never been good at advocating. But anyway I'm in sixth grade at this point and I just remember her talking about how everything just moved really fast. Right. And she kind of got presented with all this stuff as if she had no option basically saying that like this is what's going on with the baby even if it it's you know it's most likely going to be born stillborn and even if it's not it's only got like a five percent chance of living an hour after it's born and even if that and it's like they're just giving it terrifying.

SPEAKER_02 49:58

It is I had a false test when I was pregnant with my first child and it scared the shit out of me but in two weeks I had the level two and everything was clear. If they went to the level two and those things were there, it's essentially a nonviable pregnancy is what they call it.

SPEAKER_01 50:12

So it sounds like she was getting all of the statistics which is terrifying and you wouldn't get yeah because at the time baby is still technically has the heartbeat it's still technically developing it's just not developing appropriately right and it won't survive very long outside. Right. But I think that because in everything from the moment that everyone was just like okay then I get yeah let's terminate the pregnancy everything moved so fast and then they made the appointment and then they show up her and I talked about it in later years about it. So I'm this is a lot of knowledge I got after from her even my family they were really turned off because they thought they were going to like a medical place and in reality they just walked into a building with a bunch of offices the whole thing was just off. So they have to obvious obviously force her into a birth because she's too far along to do it otherwise but then afterwards it's like they refused to let anyone see the baby hold the baby they wouldn't they weren't explaining anything that was going on they they really treated everything like a typical abortion as if this was like elective and she chose it. Right and that this isn't this that this wasn't medical right this is not a choice right right and in reality they sent her to an abortion clinic where somebody who's there by choice may not want to see the baby may not want to interact but they should have done a way fucking better job at screening her for that. Yeah wow yeah so so I'd imagine that pushed her out yeah so at that point and then it didn't help the boyfriend's mom would and again I didn't know this at the time I learned this later she would make a lot of comment implying my sister killed her baby. Oh fuck. Right so that added to it I think it just mentally messed with my sister a lot and eventually she did get pregnant again totally viable great but then he was colicky crazy colicky um just cried just cried for no reason right all the time and when you're 20 years old dealing with a colicky baby when you're 30 years old and you have a colicky baby colic babies are not mine's two and a half and he screams and I'm like I don't know what the fuck to do with this.

SPEAKER_02 52:18

So I but at that age with zero again she hadn't learned a lot of coping mechanisms or skills. She went through it sounds like multiple traumatic things already had mental health issues.

SPEAKER_01 52:29

Correct and she's just not getting the help that she really deserved right and so I think that led to a lot of stuff with her a lot of stuff with her and her boyfriend right because I think that they honestly became abusive towards each other. I don't think one of them was more than the other but that really led to her both of them eventually using drugs themselves. So they went into using after she had her child again? Um eventually yeah so like I don't remember how old he was exactly but by a year old um or even less because eventually she did get pregnant again I don't even they're not even two years apart. And for sure after the second was when she would they were like using some heavier stuff again. And that pretty much marks my sister's life of just a constant roller coaster of clean using again clean using again just that really stereotypical life of a user. And again that's all super tragic. And that's all important though because I'm a child. And you're watching this playout when she had her first I was in eighth grade right when she had her second I was ending ninth grade and my mom would watch them while they were working during the day but as soon as I came home from school I'm a sophomore in high school and now I'm on baby duty. Even though my oldest nephew is old enough like he's older so he's not like a colicky baby he still was he was a little more difficult. He was very active which my mom didn't want anything to do with active she didn't want to have to follow a toddler around right so then once I got home that was my responsibility and he also because he co-sled with my sister I had to put him to bed and he would fight and fight because all he really wanted was his mom. So now here I am at 15 years old. Responsible for a kid. Yep that's not yours. Right while I'm in high school and you know taking all advanced you know courses so because you're smart to you know say it with me now. That's right. And then also so I wasn't starting homework till 10 o'clock at night that you were able to maintain like a baby. Yeah so that's a fucking yes you were well I mean but I also like had undiagnosed ADHD so I like thrived on procrastination. So you know and that was also because I again I'm smart and I I mean a moral compass here right and when you're 15 you there is no more you've never really been I just had my own moral compass but that that's not to say that it like days where something was due. 100% there were multiple times where I was like oh mom I don't feel good right and so and she didn't care. She would be like okay I think it's been established you kind of do whatever that's right you want it right kind of and then I would email my teachers oh I'm so sorry like that I wasn't there you know and I would kind of present this like I'm so sorry and I'm so responsible because I'm emailing I want my homework and really it was just so I didn't have to go to that one class that that thing was due. Right. Right. I look back teachers may or may not have known I don't know maybe they just thought I was just so trustworthy. But I think overall you were a good student kid and you know I never got in trouble. Right. Like other than being slightly obnoxious in class.

SPEAKER_02 55:30

You really didn't get that luxury everyone else was doing shit to get in trouble so for sure.

SPEAKER_01 55:34

And and I think at some point it was sixth grade and my sixth grade teacher we had a parent teacher conference but he made me come and so really it was a me and him conference that my mom just happened to be able to sit in on and he just straight up because I I think I had like a D in one of the subjects and I would have argued that it was because of a project that other kids sucked at um it was not my fault. But it was a cruise a lot of it was because like I wasn't he was like you're not even on honor roll and it was because I hadn't turned in a bunch of stuff. Because no one is holding me accountable. No one is telling me go do your homework right I come home and again have undiagnosed ADHD I don't even once I'm home I don't even remember school just homework. That's right. He's the one that was like this is up to you now. No one no one's holding your hand and if you like you are too smart to not do well in school he knew that I was really smart. He knew that I didn't want this life and the only way that I was not gonna have this life was I had to like I needed a fire I needed someone to tell me you can do this but you're gonna have to do it alone. You know no one's gonna help you like in terms of like your family. So at that point that was really for me like I wanted out and the only way out was going to be school. The only way out was if I went to college. That's a good fucking teacher right there. Oh yeah no and especially have your mom sitting there at the same time and still say it in that way that made an impact clearly that can't that lit your fire through the rest of school you know and then when I was a sophomore I had another teacher she was my avid teacher and her and I like butted heads but because I was the obnoxious kid not because we didn't like each other but just because I just wasn't afraid to say speak your mind she also wasn't afraid to like snap back right her and I developed this really cool relationship. I remember coming home one day and she's like what did you tell your teacher my mom did this and I was like what do you mean she goes well your avid teacher just called and yelled at me saying that I need the I need to stop making you take care of the kids because you're clearly like tired and whatever. So like my teacher had called and was like whatever you're doing like can you remember that Megan's a child still and that she needs to focus on school and not taking care of her sister's children. I was like I didn't say anything to her like I hadn't told I didn't really said anything to my teacher.

SPEAKER_02 57:51

Now in days a teacher could never no but that is fuck yes. But of course I got yelled at oh yeah but for me all I did was like it solidified like you okay I'm seeing yeah you're validated right right it validated you knowing that I'm not supposed to be taking carids at 15 years old I'm supposed to be focusing on school.

SPEAKER_01 58:08

Right. And that same teacher helped me she couldn't come she couldn't make it because she was a principal in a totally different city at the time but she couldn't make it to my wedding um but she helped she sent me a little bit of money to help me pay for the rest of my wedding dress. Well hold on you're skipping to the we're I know but I have to because this teacher is like awesome.

SPEAKER_02 58:27

Yes no I want to give this teacher so much credit because it sounds like she was a real one.

SPEAKER_01 58:31

Oh yeah she's it sounds like she stayed in your in your life now she just visited me here in Texas a couple years ago for my birthday.

SPEAKER_02 58:40

But she had a hand in helping you get out of that obviously spoiler alert you're fucking okay like you are well over okay to me above and beyond so let's fast forward to kind of where everyone is now so you graduated from high school I'd imagine yep at 17. Yes at 17 snaps and claps and then you went off to college yes and you got a degree in what uh psychology and child development. Huh crazy isn't it yeah and what ended up happening brief overview of what happened what ended up happening with your mother and your sister.

SPEAKER_01 59:16

Their life choices really got the better of them. It's like they they tried they were trying really hard when you have a poverty mindset you have a mindset of I'm a victim. I don't want to be a victim. I mean we are victims of things but there is definitely a difference between having a mindset of it's a mentality. Yes. And I think that they very much live in this everything is not my fault. It's not my fault everything happens to me I can't do anything about it and I didn't want to live like that. I do know that some things do just happen to me right that I didn't cause I'm not the reason I got put in foster care right that's something that happened to me. But I don't live there.

SPEAKER_02 59:54

But that's a choice and I think some people are consumed and stuck in the victimhood and like you said you can be a victim of things abuse sexual assault violence all of those things child abuse that doesn't mean that you have to be a victim. Yes you can say hey I was a victim of this but also grow and say I won't allow myself I won't let that be who I am you don't have to be that and again it doesn't sound like you you had you did have people sprinkled right but overall who you were the white sheep of the family if you will you were why you got out of that and stayed out of that because you had every excuse along the way to become an addict right to be volatile to be physical to be a neglectful parent and you are the exact opposite of those things now you have what is it four kids four kids. You're married that teacher showed up and showed up for your wedding and helped pay yeah for part of your wedding is still in your family. You have four beautiful children you have a I want to say a regular ass marriage not like not like a super volatile normal yeah normal run of the mill in the best way. In the best way yes which I'm sure you felt extremely uncomfortable with for years being with a regular person.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:06

He just accepts my crazy um because I'm I mean you can't really come out of this and and think that you're just gonna be totally like normal but normal's boring. I mean it is let him be steady yeah exactly he accepts my crazy and he I mean I don't know if he loves it but he loves me. So so yes he does. Yes and so you know my family unfortunately both my grandparents have passed now my mom and my sister at this point I don't actually know if they are using I know that do and then they don't and they do and then they don't but I do you have relationship with them or is it minimal? It's minimal simply I just don't try anymore. Um I put up a boundary put up like it's like slowly multiple boundaries over it to protect my own mental health because when like we would go visit like even before we had children by the time we were leaving and coming home like eventually got to the point where finally Chris was like you can't you can't you can't take that on on me anymore. You know because I would go and be placed right back in this pure chaos and I'm trying to hold it all in and just not get sucked back into that I come out and it's like I didn't realize that I'm like physically just done and irritable and I'm now taking it out.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:24

Yeah done and it brings out those things you've worked hard not to be correct. Even though you're not that person with anybody else. Can we fucking normalize that please for the love of God? Family or not I am so sick of hearing the excuse of somebody's blood and what if they die and what if this happens it's like listen sometimes you cannot place someone else's feelings and love and all of that and how they feel above your own mental health right if they are causing you harm. And especially in your situation where they were never really the people that protect you or built you into what you are to let them pull you back into that. It's just it's you can love them still you're allowed to love them from arm's length.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:01

There's only so much that I can do on my own leaning on God for those things, right? Understanding that people aren't perfect. One of the things that I will say is I never felt unloved right I knew my family loved me I knew my mom loved me I knew my sister loved me I just was uncared for which to a degree can make you feel unloved. For me there was a lot of stuff like against me a lot of ways that I could have lived my life but having what I think was placed in me and a moral compass that I I didn't do that. I didn't get taught from anybody right when I got saved this whole mind shift that I don't have to be the one that carries all of this that this is something I can lay down at the cross and give to him to carry I don't need their apology because I'm forgiven for the things that I've done and I can forgive them because I'm forgiven they're never going to take responsibility for those things because even when my mom tried there was always a but I'm so sorry that I did that but and I think for a long time I was holding on to that I wanted her to just accept it. I wanted her to take responsibility and know that it was her fault. But that's heavy to carry it is and laying that down frees you. Right. And so for me it was the faith that good can come from this right not just out of my own will right but that these these little lives right as I'm looking at all my photos right that these little lives get to be changed because God changed me and changed my heart I can make a new legacy for my children.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:32

Well and that generational trauma stops with you. Right. It doesn't have to continue. So that's beautiful I always love to hear people's and again you don't even have to talk about it all the time to have faith. It's it's it's a personal relationship with you and God. But I think that's incredible that after all of that that's where you went because a lot of people will shy away from God because of the life that you lived. Right. Um so that's strength as well. So for anybody that might have been through this that maybe has struggled on and off and wants to get out of the victimhood mentality or just anyone if you could you know give them something or things that maybe they could do obviously faith is one for you but a couple other things that maybe would help somebody who has endured something similar as a kid and is just trying to deal with it now and navigate it as an adult what types of things would you suggest that worked for you?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:19

They need people they can talk to about it whether it's a therapist, a good friend, someone that can just know them my best friend is that where it's it's I can call and say something or something I'm dealing with and I don't have to give this huge backstory. Having someone in your corner that you know is going to be there is so important because they can you don't want just a yes man right it's not just someone you know hype people are super awesome but you need the person who's going to be like hold up I think you were wrong and you're actually correct. Yes. Right they know you need someone who knows you. Whether it's your husband, your best friend, someone that isn't just gonna oh yes Girl, yeah, you you yeah, that's right. Like it because that gets toxic. You need to have other people who are gonna say, Maybe it's not okay, and maybe you do need some professional help or just to navigate it because you're gonna have a lot of things that you do and ways that you react that are unhealthy. But they were tools that you used that got you through, but it's only helpful when it's chaos.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:27

When you're in, yeah, when you're intoxic. When it's not, you don't need them anymore. Correct. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:31

That tool maybe got you through then, but it's not good now. But if you don't have people that can help you see that tools that you don't need to use that tool right now, shit down, right? It's like I use sarcasm all the time, but not every situation needs sarcasm. I can't take a compliment to save my life. I get really awkward at oh th okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:50

Oh I like your tattoos, by the way.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:53

Right. Those are I can I can also didn't draw them, right? So no, I get the sarcasm. But yeah, but it's it's that those are things that you have to work on. You have to, but you have to have people, you have to have whether it's a therapist, go deal, go learn new tools, proper tools, healthy tools.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:10

I love that. Well, I appreciate you being so candid and so honest. And I told I told you this before we started, but I'm a true believer and people go through hard shit and it prepares them for the next hard thing. So I know that this is not the this was just kind of the beginning of your life, and you've been you've lived some crazy shit. More than one lifetime movie. We have like a series from your life, same. So I'd love to have you back at some point to talk about the fire that occurred. Um, but I don't want to give too much away, but I'd love to have you back at some point to talk about that. But in the meantime, thank you so much. You really are you have a quiet like way about you, and nobody would know this about you at all, which to me just speaks strength. And you don't wear it at all. And it's it's a beautiful thing to hear that you went through all of that and you're still standing here as an incredible mother, an incredible wife, a strong person, and advocate for people. And I'm just I'm really proud of you. Like honestly. Genuinely. But let's end this shit the right way. So we gotta do a high five, still alive, and do your evil laugh. That was pretty good.