how can I use AI to build the career I want? (part 2)

Welcome back to Dear EverMore! In this episode, our founders Scott, Courtney, and Kelsey continue the conversation on AI and the future of work. If you haven't listened to Part 1 yet, go back and start here — we covered what AI is good at, where it falls short, and how companies are misusing it.

In Part 2, we talk about how to harness AI to make your career better, how we're building EverMore differently, and what the future of work might actually look like.

What we get into:

• How to build critical thinking and comfortability with friction — knowing how to prompt AI, questioning the results you’re getting, and letting it pause will help immensely with critical thinking. We also recommend getting out of your house, your comfort zone more, and letting yourself be bored. Synchronicity won’t find you if you’re staying in the same circles. Consider joining a book club or going to community events to engage with people you don’t know.
• How we're doing this differently in EverMore — we're focused on reflection, taking action outside of the tool, and helping you know yourself better. Unlike other tools (like ChatGPT) where they want to keep your attention, our incentive is to give you value and results — solving problems with you, not having you doom spiral into the platform.
• The future of engineering — in the past, engineering teams would have a product owner, several engineers, and 1-2 testers working on a single product. In the future, you might have 5 product owners spinning up massive updates, but only 1-2 engineers focused on architecture and design. AI is changing the structure of how work gets done.
• How this could lead to more entrepreneurs — we believe there will be more people building businesses with AI supporting the accounting, coding, testing, and thought partnership to build something from the ground up. This is where EverMore can come in — helping you focus on your why and how it relates to your North Star, so you can harness AI to build the career (or company) you actually want.

If you're looking for a way to take control + own your career in the age of AI, we invite you to join the EverMore free beta! You’ll get early access to our career tools, plus discounted pricing.

Resources:

• EverMore: The Future is Already Unfolding: How Work and Society Evolve by 2030
• Fridge Friends: The Art of Serendipity
• Anthropic CEO: Study the Humanities (and what they look for when hiring)
• Vice: Gen Z is the First Generation Dumber than Their Parents
• Steve Jobs Made 12 Predictions in 1990. They Just Came True.

Have a burning question you'd like answered on the pod? We'd love to give you advice! Submit your anonymous question. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:01

Welcome back everyone to Dear Evermore. We hope you enjoyed part one of our AI conversation from last week, where we talked about will AI actually take our jobs. In part two, we talk a little bit more about critical thinking, how to leverage AI without taking over the human aspect of life, which is ideating, being creative, connecting with others, and having those hard conversations at work. In this episode, we do go into a little bit more conversation than last week's. And we talk about our stance on AI and what we're doing a little differently with in Evermore versus what you'll see in other AI tools. And at the end, Scott also talks about the future of an engineering team and how this could actually breed more entrepreneurs and business owners to tackle their ideas at the beginning before they bring on tech talent. We hope you enjoy the conversation. And in the show notes, you'll find a link to join the beta if you want to try it out yourself.

SPEAKER_01 1:39

But I think that is like a muscle that is kind of fading. And I read kind of a disturbing study the other day that talked about Gen Z being the first generation. And it was across 80 countries, including the US, that is scoring like lower than the prior generation on things like attention, memory, literacy, their ability to work with numbers, their executive function and just general IQ. And this particular study that I read did kind of make what I would call a diagnosis of they have a lack of friction due to their access to digital technology. So exercising the skill to like read, digest, and like understand like a body of work, or kind of have to think through how to interpret something. They're not having to do that. They can skim something or use things like AI to present that back to them. I mean, how would you suggest someone pull themselves out of a hole if they've maybe not had that friction before or not had to exercise that skill before?

SPEAKER_02 2:46

As millennials, like we've gone through, we've seen the creation of Airbnb, we've seen the creation of DoorDash, we've seen the commute, the creation of all of these things, like Amazon that removes the friction that so many humans before us had to experience. I I mean, I'm the type of person that like I like running my errands. I like going to the store. I like the analog aspect of life because I like the driving. I like the listening to music, and I like exploring, like meeting people that I don't know if I would have met if I only stayed in my house and stayed within my like core unit of people. But I think it's because like I know that there's possibility in like going out and seeing and meeting people and like experiencing some level of friction. And um I guess I'll come up with an example. Like, there's one time I was on my way back from Europe. It was like I had like three air, three planes, like three legs on my way back, and I was so sick. I was probably the sickest I would ever be. And I had to travel this like very long day from Vienna to Paris to Atlanta to Austin. My bag got lost somewhere in the way. And I got to Atlanta, and you have to go through like customs and you have to do the all the thing, and my bag never showed up, and I was with four other people whose bag also didn't show up. And they said, Hey, it's probably gonna be on the next flight. We'll let you know when it arrives. And I'm just like, All right, like, what am I gonna do about it? What can I do about it right now? I'm also like terribly like at I'm like at 5% of my battery. I'm just ready to get on the next flight just to like pass out for a little bit. And this woman behind me is just complaining constantly about her bag. And I remember she was like trying to like get me to talk with her, like also be in that that complaining space with her, that friction-y area that she was so uncomfortable with. And I remember just turning and being like, Well, it's gonna show up when it shows up. And she just got so irritated about that, just immediately stopped talking to me because I was like positive about it. And I think when like you're so uncomfortable with discomfort, you almost want like to pull the world down with you. That's the edge, like that's almost like the the place that like you're you're being taught to like grow a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 5:24

I'm not gonna lie, I think I'd be crying, but I understand what you're saying. And I think you said something interesting. So we both worked for Chris Taylor at Square Root and he sent out a newsletter, I think a couple weeks ago, around serendipity and basically give your put yourself in places for like good things to happen to you. Put yourself in places to like meet new people who like enrich your life and kind of like the act of like intentional and unintentional, like serendipity. And I do think there's something to be said for like if you don't ever have to leave your house, you've really reduced your chances for serendipity to like take its course. And I thought that was a really like lovely way to like think about it. And I'm gonna give my example of how if I wanted to build critical thinking skills, I would do it. And I feel like it's the one I always use, which if I were sitting here and I was like, how do I get really good at like friction or like putting myself in like maybe an uncomfortable situation, I would join a fiction book club because I feel like reading fiction a builds empathy, it puts you in a different world, and then going somewhere to discuss it with other people. There's one in our neighborhood where like if you go, it's just random strangers, like that some people, sometimes the same people show up, sometimes they don't. And now you're arguing with strangers about what you think did or didn't happen or what the author did or didn't mean, or how you did or didn't interpret something. But it's like at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter because it's just you're discussing a fiction book, but I think it actually really exercises the skills of like parsing through something, breaking it down, and like learning how to debate with like other people. And I just think it's like a nice little safe bubble if you are like wanting to try either for connection, critical thinking, or to build empathy, whatever it might be, or all of the above. So that'll be my like monthly plug for joining a book club.

SPEAKER_00 7:14

Love it, love it. I yeah, I just I just wanted to go back to something you said um about DoorDash because that really resonated with me. I think it's amazing that Amazon can deliver me something same day. I think it's amazing that DoorDash can bring me food whenever I want. But what y'all touched on was so key there, which recognizing the other cost that's kind of hidden, that there's a cost in there. Like you don't get to have that social interaction. You you miss out on meeting that person with a different viewpoint that maybe you you you've you know sparked a different um uh you know vein of understanding or something there. So I think there's there's a cost, there's a hidden cost to all that convenience, right?

SPEAKER_02 7:58

And some of my closest friends, my first co-founder at startup I had before, Daydreamer, her and I uh we met at a networking event. We met because we like were in the same room together, and we just so she just so happened to like go up on stage and talk about this idea she had. And I just remember being like, I just moved here too, I have the same issue. And like I connected with her, not because I was like, let me jump on on that, but more of like, I know what that feels like. And sometimes if you're not in that room with someone, or you're not like in line at a grocery store together, or if you're not at a coffee shop and you're like like sometimes serendipity happens, and you just like your whole world can change in that one moment. There it are, there are these costs, and it and I have some of my closest friends that I've met at these like events that I would just go to and I would just be really uncomfortable going, but that discomfort is part of the experience, it's part of the human experience to be a little uncomfortable because it grows you. And sometimes I'm uncomfortable whenever more ask me a question. I'm like, I don't know how to answer this, but I have to answer it, and then it gives me some insight that I really wouldn't have had otherwise. And sitting with that discomfort, sometimes sitting with the boredom is also like one of the best feelings of just like in your house, and you're like, I could look at Instagram, I could turn on my TV, I could do something different, but I'm just gonna sit here and I'm gonna be a little uncomfortable. And I have seen some folks in the Gen Z world starting to do every day at least half an hour, an hour without technology. And I think that is like one of the it's so hard for even me to do it. And I know what it was like as a child before using social media and being so obsessed with it. And there's it's an addiction. And so I think there's a lot of opportunity for like sitting with it and and really unplugging yourself for a little bit can help you go inward to see like why am I reaching for that?

SPEAKER_01 10:13

Ever since I was like a kid, I like to spend time every day staring at my ceiling fan. And it's like my way, it's almost like putting myself in like a trance of like to like get into my creativity. And my daughter, I guess when she was finally old enough one day, I was like, what are you doing every day when you're just laying on the couch, like staring up? And I was like, Oh, I'm basically just like in a creativity trance. I'm bored, but I'm kind of forcing myself to just be with my thoughts, and I all it's very similar to going on a walk. Um, and like that things just like rattle loose after that, or like I feel like a peace and like a calm, or like now I know what the right decision is. And I think having been like ahead of people and culture, like a lot of times I was grappling with decisions that felt very like existential and ethical. And I would just be like, I need to like go like be I need to just go stare at a wall or something for a while before I can tell you what I think. I can't just make a snap judgment or be sitting in like a room full of conversation and conflicting opinions. I need to just almost like put myself in like a trance to come through with what's going to be right. And I do think that is something that was built by not having access and having TV limits as a kid, where it was like, yeah, your only option, Courtney, is to go sit outside and do nothing or go sit in your room and do nothing. And so then I got used to like, okay, I'll just stare at the ceiling van. And I do think that is like hard. And Kelsey, you and I have talked a lot about like reflection isn't easy. And I think that is something that can off put people to like reflection, meditation, journaling, because it makes you sit with your thoughts and sometimes they're ugly thoughts, and sometimes they're you discover things about yourself where you're like, oh, that's actually hard. I might be the problem here, like I might have caused this. And I do think that our access to technology or access to so many things right now makes it really easy to numb yourself and not have to feel those feelings or sit with them and kind of remove that discomfort, remove that friction. And I think you're right. I think people are really primed to have that like almost like addictive feeling to like their technology. And I don't think it's just the tech, I think it's the way that it numbs them. And I I think about that a lot as a parent.

SPEAKER_02 12:31

Yeah, because technology, again, going back to like if something is free, you are the product. Instagram is free, X is free, Reddit is free, Facebook is free. There is a reason for why those things are free. That is one thing that in the morning I'm trying. I used I I started noticing I would hold my phone first. It was like the first thing I would do, like oh, turning off my alarm. Maybe I'm snoozing a couple times, but I'm turning off my alarm, pulling my phone, looking at my phone, and it's usually Instagram or it's usually some first thing I'm gonna like sometimes. I look at Slack first, which is don't do that. Guys, do not do that. It is probably the worst thing for your brain. Not saying that like any one of us is like going hard on Slack, but it's just like such a weird habit. And so once you can like see your habit, I then started saying, okay, well, maybe it's not the first thing I'm gonna do in the morning. Maybe I'm just gonna like lay in my bed and just look at my ceiling, and I'm just gonna have my my first thoughts, like my first 10 minutes in my brain. And it is a very uncomfortable feeling. But then I started noticing some of the like, why am I thinking about that right when I wake up? And why do I why am I thinking about that loop? And we have like, again, going back to like burnout and overwhelm and exhaustion, we have all these like open loops that aren't closing. And so I that's like the first thing I think about is like, oh, I didn't do that and I didn't do that and I didn't do that. And those are like negative thought patterns that I'm having about myself that of course is just gonna permeate throughout the rest of the day because there's so many things I could be doing, especially as a founder. There's like a million things that I like sign myself up for and I like totally forgot to do. If it's not written on a to-do list, I'm and then I'm like pushing the to-do list, like, oh, that's a next week, that's a tomorrow, that's a that's a this. And so I'm trying my best to like when I notice those things is change. Okay, well, how can I have some like positive thought right now about myself? Like, what am I what am I positively excited about today? And and and then I go and I wander around my house and I make my coffee and I do my routine, and I'm trying my best to like leave my phone somewhere else. And I at least have don't have my phone for 30 minutes in the beginning of the day. And I think like it's a really hard muscle to have. And but the critical thinking is really just like sitting with yourself and thinking about things, and even when you're working with AI, I noticed so often before that Chat GPT would give me incorrect data to the point that I'm like believing it, and then I go, Oh, can you um give me where the where those sources are? And it goes, uh, well, I couldn't find any of the sources. I'm like, then where did that come from? How did you come up with that number? And they're like, Well, I'm speculating. And I was like, You just made up a number, and it tells me like how it made up all the numbers, and I go, I disagree with this. I think that is a the wrong way of looking at this number, and I'm like pushing it, and then I have to like, I'm like forcing it to say, Oh, well, I I hallucinated. And I was like, Okay, you're forcing it to take accountability. I'm I'm for I'm like pushing on it so much that it has to say, like, I was wrong, you're right, thank you for questioning me. And then I started thinking, like, imagine, of course it's hallucinating. Imagine if, like, I'm thinking, if I was talking to someone and they had access to every data out there, every single piece of information on the internet, in every book, and everything that exists for hundreds of years, of course, they're gonna be like a terrible person to give you information. You know, like you have to again prompt it. You have to ask why, you have to ask where did this come from. Just like you would any human being. I would be a problem walking around the world being like, oh, did you know? Blah, blah. Like no one wants the know-it-all. And I feel like AI is the know it all. And it's hallucinating constantly. So I think back to critical thinking is you have to prompt it for the right information, and you have to say, I need sources, and I do not need, I should not want you to speculate, and I need you to help me understand what I'm even trying to get here and point me in the direction so I can find the data.

SPEAKER_01 17:06

Is that kind of behavior part of like the reward system that's baked into the tech where it like wants or has to give you an answer? So it's giving you something that's made up. It's like it feels like there's something going on there where it seems to be forced to give an answer instead of forced to say I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 17:24

Yeah, I was I was just gonna mention that it never says I don't know, right? There's there's not that there's not that um you know quality to AI where it's gonna say, you know what, I I really don't know. It's gonna give you an answer, uh, some kind of answer, right? And and it's up to you to kind of like like Kelsey was saying, interrogate it, press it, or find your own, um, find your own sources and and do your own work or or do your own work with AI leveraged and to you know to speed it up. So yeah, that's that's just part of the uh non-deterministic nature of of you know the roots of AI. So yeah, some something to to deal with and and have your guard up about. I was thinking about what you're saying, Kelsey, with you know, with Meta on trial this week, specifically for for you know um harming kids, but you think about you know the broader uh goal of of meta, right? It's it's increasing time on platform, the time you spend on the platform. We want to we want to make sure that we're garnering more and more of a share of your time. How do we do that? And then selling advertising, right? And so you you think of the um of what AI can do in in those realms with understanding what presses your buttons, what what gets you to click, what gets you to stay, and where that can go kind of real dark. So um you got to have your guard up. You know, I think I think people are coming around to that. I think, you know, uh people are more and more, like you said, what let's just go for a walk. Let me get off of uh Instagram for a second.

SPEAKER_02 18:56

I did note, and I maybe this gets us like into like Evermore as a stance on AI. I've found that when I was starting to like move things from ChatGPT to Evermore, I found that like I tend to spend way more time chatting with ChatGPT than I do in the same kind of topic goal thread with Evermore because I think it's all based on like how the model was trained. I think ChatGPT wants me to stay in that conversation. It almost wants it does the whole like prompting, like, oh now we can do this, and if you want, we can do this. And I'm I'm almost like, yeah, let's do that. And it like almost like gets me excited to like keep going, but it's only circling a loop that like I should not be circling, especially when you're using it to like parse through something you're going through. Like a lot of people are using ChatGPT for therapy, and there's a difference with like when you go to actual therapy, you only have a certain amount of time, and like they're going to help you like just rediscover and reflect on yourself. And you almost like are like, I can't go deeper. Like, this is this is a lot to handle, and I'm gonna process this and then we'll talk again. But Chat GBT, you can keep going over and over and over and over and over and over and over. It's almost like daggering into limerence, it almost like wants to hold on to you and wants you to hold on to that thought prop pattern. Whereas like Evermore, I find that it asks me a question. If I'm not ready to ask that answer that question yet, I will kind of put it down and I'll think about it. I don't do the same thing in ChatGPT, but I'm like way more critical thinking in Evermore. And I like that we designed it so we're like, we're not you're we don't want to hold on to you. We want you to like reflect on yourself and we want you to do something about it and have the conversation and put a plan together. We're not meant to like hold on to you as this tool because all these other tools are like almost like clinging on, like they want you to like be obsessed with attention seeking.

SPEAKER_00 21:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:06

Yeah. Yeah. I think we want people to feel that Evermore is where they go to think about their career and that they have a sense of like autonomy and ownership of their career because of the tools that we're providing them. And I do think that is a very different purpose when you're building something, then I want to hold you here as long as I can. And I think, given our experience, I think we certainly know the ways in which we could hold someone like hostage to our platform, should we think that was healthy for them. But because of something you said earlier, Kelsey, around like we want to help someone feel that they have the preparation to go have a hard conversation and that they've kind of reflected maybe on their role in a conflict. They've reflected on like their North Star and values, and they're kind of prepared to have that, but they can't keep having the conversation on platform. They need to go have the conversation with the person. And so we are kind of trying to drive them to take those actions. If they're creating some sort of growth plan in our system, we're kind of driving them. Those are actions that they're taking often outside the platform. We're just helping them discover what those things are, help them feel accountable and kind of create a path forward. They still have to go outside to like do that thing and then come back. And I do think that is a little bit of a different approach. It's a little bit more niche, it's a little bit more bounded than I think some of the things that we're seeing out there that are kind of like endless. And I have stopped using Chat GPT because I became convinced that it was going to make me believe that I was difficult because every response it gave me was like, Courtney, you're not too difficult. I was like, who said I was difficult? Like, I'm not saying that.

unknown 22:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:50

You qualifying that I'm not too difficult is making me feel that you think I'm difficult. And I did read a study that it does respond different to people based on the language that they use. And I thought, I was like, I wonder if there's something about the language that I use, which is kind of raw, scattered thoughts, that is making it think this is a difficult person.

SPEAKER_02 23:15

I constantly get the too much. You're not too much. It's like, again, never said I was too much. And I think it's because it's coming back to things from Reddit. I think it like connects to like, oh, this person is talking about X thing. Let me go and find. And people probably there are saying, like, oh, I'm always told I'm too much. And it's probably like speculating. And I'm like, I actually am okay being too much. Because like, I'm not too much for the right people, and I'm not too much for the right things, and I'm not too much for the right environment. But like, stop telling me I'm too much.

SPEAKER_01 23:51

Yeah, I think a lot of the things that we've talked about in this conversation actually are kind of roots in how we thought about building evermore. I mean, the idea of like wanting to like augment people, not replace them. Um, I think Scott, you mentioned that you know, you were the co-founder of a data privacy startup that Kelsey and I both worked at. And so that's kind of baked into the core of like the sovereignty of your data as a default and being more transparent and truthful in how our models are being trained. It was one of the first FAQs we kind of popped on our site just to be really forthright with it and to kind of set that stake of like hold us accountable to this because this is what we are building. And I think having like clear boundaries of what we would use people's inner thoughts for and really only using it to benefit the specific person that it was coming from. And I do think, and being more niche, like we really are trying to help solve this problem around queer ownership. And I I kind of expect that we'll see more of this. I mean, what do y'all think?

SPEAKER_02 24:54

Definitely. I see a lot of like niche AI being like the future.

SPEAKER_00 24:58

Yeah, I I think you're right there. I think um I think people are are you know back to the you know in incentivization, right? Like if if if our incentive is to get you to stay here longer and to, you know, uh play upon you know certain certain thoughts or or fears and and get you to stay on that platform until you're ready to click an ad or something like that. That's the that's that's not something we're interested in, right? Our incentive is to um provide you, you know, value and results such that you know you you feel like this product actually um fills fills a gap or a need, right? And and um so that that aligns us right there with with the right things, right? In terms of we want you to to um use an honest approach and and help us to honestly solve problems with you, um, versus you know, we we want you to just doom spiral into this platform. You know, that's not what we're after. And so we align those uh very clearly um with how we built the product.

SPEAKER_02 26:04

And plus, with like we were talking about AI and like what consumers, what individuals actually want with AI. They they don't want to be replaced, of course. Like we want to, we want to do good work, we want to put our work out into the world. We very much believe that everyone comes to work wanting purpose. They want, they want to know that they're doing something and they're like changing the world a little bit and like doing it like in a small little way each time. And I think that's where like when we pivoted the we like went like, oh, let's create this individual tool. Oh, wait, let's sell it to companies and they can kind of get their teams on it. I love the 180 back because everything is about this is their data, it's their reflections, it's their work, it's their career. And we've all been in in our careers talking about how like we put our career in the hands of managers, we put it in the career, our career in the hands of the company that we were at at the time. And then we stay one, two, three, four, five years. We're not staying 15, 20 years anymore. And so, of course, like it should move with you and it should be your data, and it should be used to help you and not benefiting anybody else. And so that's kind of why I really like that we created it so much about the individual and you control it. If you don't want it in our database anymore, great. You can delete it, you can have it delivered to you, like whatever helps. And I think that like that's the future of technology is that it like it should be about their control of their data. And I think that really comes from like our experience working in data privacy.

SPEAKER_00 27:46

Yeah, you're so right. I mean, I remember that pivot because we're we're looking at, well, should we be B2B? That's what we know, right? Uh let's let's scope that out. And we were still still trying to make it so that you know we we really tightly guarded your data privacy, and this was still, you know, something you could trust. But I remember that, you know, move back to B2C and it it's all about the end user and and what services them best. And immediately I felt better because now we are completely focused and clear on what the mission is. And there's there's not there's no like wiggle room or here or there. It's nope, that's what we're doing. And so I I mean I I remember that um as being just this yes, let's do that.

SPEAKER_02 28:35

Quick show pause for a sec before we finish the episode. In this next short segment, Scott talks about the future of what an engineering team could look like now with the rise of AI and how this could actually bring a lot more entrepreneurs to the surface. So if that is you and you are looking for a way to take all of the things that you have cultivated and grown in your career, transition it into being a founder, we'd also love to get you on to Evermore. So please use the show notes link or reach out to any one of us if you want to talk through how you can use it as a founder. All right, without further ado.

SPEAKER_00 29:18

You know, if you play this forward a bit and a lot of your engineering tasks are being automated for you, um, that you know, the current team makeup is, you know, say a product owner. Maybe that product owner has two teams, or maybe they just have one team, but that there's a product owner, there's a you know, a couple of testers, you know, QA people, and then there's, you know, a handful of engineers who actually build the software. Um in the future, that might be drastically different, where um those cycle times are much, much quicker. The AI is largely testing itself. Um, and but somebody still needs to keep it on the guardrails, still needs to be thinking about the architecture, still needs to have the how the system fits together. And um, so I was thinking it might be flipped to, you know, maybe you have five product owners who are spitting about spitting out massive amounts of of features and updates and new product. Um, and then you have, you know, maybe just one engineer on that team who's, you know, making sure everything uh fits together, sustainable, maintainable, uh, has the correct architecture, you know. Um, so maybe maybe the future of engineering uh is changing right before our eyes in that in that aspect where you know code like codecs is really good. If codex gets that much better, you know, when is it where you're not actually writing most of the code? You're you're maybe fixing a piece here or there, but you you're actually more setting guidelines, setting rules, um, you know, uh checking the results, and it that iteration cycle is just much, much faster.

SPEAKER_02 30:57

It kind of comes back to something I said earlier on like I would love to see in the future with AI advancing, like more entrepreneurs, more people coming up with new ideas. They're not gonna need a 10-person engineering team. They're probably going to like we only have you, which sometimes I feel bad when we're like about to like do a feature release and we're like, Scott's the only one that can update all of this. Um, but like you're you're putting a lot of like, how can we have the AI test itself before we all are humanly testing it? And so like it's not it's not removing us testing it because like a human will always be at the other end of a tech or other end of a tool. So we're gonna need to know the experience of it, and really like I feel like I tend to break a lot of things, and I I feel like I'm just like a natural QA. Um, that's how always how it was used in every tech company I was ever in. I befriended a lot of engineers and they'd be like, Kelsey likes to break things, she just does it naturally, just give it to her, she'll she'll break it. Um, but like people will always have to test it, but like how can you trim down the tech team, which then allows other people to be able to create other things. And I think there's a whole world where like there's a ton of problems in this world, and we need more people to ideate. And I just think the the job market is gonna change in that that like no one's really gonna need like a nine to five, they're gonna be creating their own things.

SPEAKER_00 32:33

Yeah, I think I think you you touched on it earlier where you were talking about how you can so easily now be uh an entrepreneur, or maybe that maybe that's too loaded a term, but like work for yourself, right? And if we put it in like simple terms, right? Like I want to start a new restaurant, what's the what's the actual deliverable? It's you know, I want to deliver great food to to people in my community, but you have to think about all these other things that consume a lot of your time. Who's doing the accounting, who's managing the inventory? Do I have do I have the product available so that I can I can actually, you know, uh cook the food? Uh who's who's handling benefits and this and that? If at least some of that burden is, you know, I'm not an expert in in these areas. If at least some of that burden is relieved, does that change the game with being able to start a new restaurant? Right. Um, I maybe that's a bad example, maybe there's some better ones, but you know.

SPEAKER_01 33:27

That's a great example. I think the things that would have made someone nervous or like shut them out of running a business because they're trying to create something around their talent, but there's all these things around it that you're like either don't want to do or you're not primed to do, or they're like really complex to do. I always think about like the accounting bit of it all, like, I don't want to do that. I don't want to learn how to do it. But there's all these tools now that when I'm doing it for my consulting business, I'm just like, here's the information. And it's whipping everything up that's magic. And I'm like, okay, I'm checking it, I'm signing it, and I didn't have to think too hard about it. And I feel like 10 years ago, that felt really daunting.

SPEAKER_00 34:11

And you'd be burning the midnight oil after work, right? I gotta get the accounting done. I've got to square these numbers, and now you're just reviewing and saying, that took me five minutes. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 34:22

So it's like the intimidation factor, I think, is reduced for people who either don't want to do those tasks or those tasks just feel really burdensome, or they're things you don't want to mess up either.

SPEAKER_02 34:33

I think everybody is very entrepreneurial, especially creatives and freelancers and folks that like want to create like a company or a tool or a restaurant or whatever. I think coming in and leveraging evermore as okay, let's start with my North Star. What am I even trying to accomplish in my life? Why do I want to build this tool? Why do I want to put my music and my creative aspect or art out there? Why do I want to create this restaurant? Why do I want to pick up projects as a freelancer? And I think when you bring it back to like all of your why, then you can actually like thought partner exercise it a lot of, hey, I have this idea, help me better communicate this. Like I'm feeding it all of my how I talk, how I communicate, how I want to brand myself, how I want to um ex you know, describe what I'm doing. And all AI is doing, all Evermore does for me in that case is okay, well, here are some ideas for a template you can send a venue, or here's an idea of like what you could do socially if you want to post about it. But it all connects to my North Star and it connects to like who I am and it connects to my values and it connects to what I'm trying to do. And I think that's the best part about like thinking of anything you're creating, whether it's art, whether it's a tool, whether it's a restaurant, of like why and and how you can put together the frameworks for it and then let AI help you do all the things that you're really bad at, like the accounting, like the I need to put together a business plan. Um, I need to understand my cost of goods sold. I need to understand how am I, how do I sell this? How do I market it? How do I socially post about it? Like those are all the things that like a lot of people might not be good at. But like lean on your strengths and then let AI kind of help you with the things that you're not not very good at. All right, thank you so much for joining us today. We hope you enjoyed part two of our AI conversation and what this means for the future of work. We have a really special one happening next week. Courtney, myself, and Courtney's 10-year-old daughter went out on the streets of South by Southwest in Austin, Texas. And we had such a blast interviewing random people on the street about their careers, and she took over our podcast. So next week's gonna be really, really, really special. You don't want to miss it. Make sure to follow for more, and we'll see you next week.