Emotional Honesty...the Hard Way

What starts out in the greeting card aisle at the local CVS ends up orbiting the moon.

How did we do it?  Honestly?  Trust, belief and vulnerability lead the way!

Also...there was an interruption by our landscaping crew at one point...but we covered it like true professionals.

Enjoy!

- T & J

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

My back is uh on the men, but my b now my hip is all out of whack, so it sucks getting old. Yeah. Sucks getting old. All right. There's no such thing as getting old.

SPEAKER_02 0:12

There's only getting more broken.

SPEAKER_00 0:14

There's only getting more broken. More pieces fall off the car and eventually you're gonna have to take off. Your car's just experienced. My car is experienced. Uh I want to start out this episode. We've already started hit record here. Uh, with just saying uh thank you to a whole bunch of new listeners. Yeah. We have uh we have blossomed. We've we've come into our own. And um and this is a hobby and and an exercise that we think is important, and that's was the whole reason to do it. That or we're being stalked. We could be being stalked, but what's the president? It's bigger, I think it's bigger than that. Um so I I just I want to thank all of the people who've come over from Trent Takes On to listen here. Uh I there are a couple I know that from uh from the I have some oddball locations that listen to me that you wouldn't think like Trent has a really big fan in Germany, but I do. That's funny. Uh and it's true. So uh thank you for coming over. And for those of you who don't listen to me over on Trent Takeson 2.0, what are you doing? Go over and check me out over there. Anyway, thank you all to all the new listeners, and we are gonna continue to produce mind-blowing content. That's the plan. Mind blowing. Mind blowing. Well, we're not gonna make a plan. We're just gonna mind imploding. Mind imploding. Yeah. Um, so I'm gonna hit the button and we're gonna start. This weekend is my little one's birthday. Oh, that's right. Okay. Happy birthday. So, and you guys are helping us out with the party. Thank you so much for that. Uh I will be fascinating. I'm not doing a whole lot profusely over the next few days. I'm sure. Yeah. That's her arena. Um and I'll tell you here's the the subject for the the day is yesterday uh my wife and I went to I went to CVS to pick up my prescription. I had a refill.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

And uh and she was like, I want to go because I want to get I want to get the little one a card. And I said, Okay. So we go, I get wait in line, I get my stuff, and I go over, and she's like, I have I have this card, and I have this card, I have this card, I have this card for the big one, you know, read them and and tell me what you think. So I'm standing there in CVS at like 9.15 and I'm reading these cards, and this is apparently greeting card writing is like designed to tear you apart. Because I'm just like openly weeping in the middle of CVS because I can put myself in that moment about my kids. So she's like, Are you okay? I'm like, Yeah, I'm fine. Are you kidding me? I mean, that like the the the heartfelt sentiment here squeezing into you know a single sonnet, all of these incredibly deep emotions is is it hurt like it it it wounds me that I can't do the same thing, and I consider myself a bit of a wordsmith. But it made me think about the transformation of manliness because we've talked about masculinity a lot. Yeah. And the transformation of manliness from me being a kid, I I thought that weeping in in public was like it wasn't done. Like my all the men in my family would look at me and go, No, there are like two times when we cry. It's when you're really incredibly badly hurt, or when a really famous sports guy retires. Like those are the only two times you're allowed to cry. Maybe if your parents die. Yeah. And uh it was just like, whoa, so it wasn't done. Me today, I'm like, fuck you, people. I don't care what you think. You know, I'll cry at a movie, I'll cry at a TV show, I'll cry at uh my kid gets awards, kids get awards at school, yeah, and I'll and I'll I'll tear up, you know. I I that source of pride is so powerful now. Yeah, like I'm so proud of you, you little, you little, I had no idea. Um They're actually both brilliant, so they win awards all the time. Um I'm really fortunate. Yeah, but I'm I I started thinking about is there is we've talked about toxic masculinity. Is there a transfer? Are we moving into this new version of masculinity that's less about perception and more about um honesty?

SPEAKER_02 5:12

I I do believe that there's been a transformation for a while now. Um I think vulnerability is more accepted within men. I will make the devil's advocate argument that I don't see it being accepted amongst a lot of women.

SPEAKER_00 5:31

Fair enough.

SPEAKER_02 5:32

Um and again, that's a generalization, right? It depends on the circles you're in, where you're at.

SPEAKER_00 5:38

I have who I, of course, being a feminist, wouldn't blame femin uh females for looking at us going, I still don't trust you people because you're all jerks.

SPEAKER_02 5:47

Yeah, I don't I don't know if it's about building trust. I think it's more about um levels of attraction and levels of um w who are those people in your lives. So And I guess I think this goes for men too. I think like if you're the the context in where you're vulnerable, right? Like you with your family being vulnerable is one thing, and I think that's a great transformation where we have seen acceptance and men take that that that role, the family role, right? Of of fathers being just more around, not going to work and then going hanging out at the bars with their friends, and that was just they accept the norm, like the mother stays at home with the children only, right? It's and I'm not saying there's anything wrong if people choose to have the mother being predominantly the one that stays at home or anything like that, right? You can choose that.

SPEAKER_00 6:39

I think every situation needs to be taken on a step on a by a step-by-step instance by instance basis. For instance, when we started out, I worked full-time, yeah, and Emily was the stay-home caregiver. And then when my body started rejecting stress, yeah, and and she was like, I have discovered that I'm not great with just me and baby. It makes me crazy, it made her crazy.

SPEAKER_02 7:08

Like, well, I mean, there's there's a lot of things going on there, right? With um postmodern and all that type of stuff, you know?

SPEAKER_00 7:17

So we switched and she went back to work and she actually like got a really good job. She's the one with the education in the family, so it all made sense. But she wanted to do it, and it was like, why don't you try just raising kids and see for Trent stress stress magnet like I am? Like, I was a very much a uh victim of corporate downsizing or corporate corporate America. We'll put it that way. I wasn't downsized, I was fired for having ethics, which apparently is commonplace.

SPEAKER_02 7:50

Uh where did you think you'd live, you know?

SPEAKER_00 7:54

Um anyway, but when I changed, when I changed and became a a stay-at-home dad, and then we ended up having a second kid. Um I do think that that the change in role changed me as well. I'm sure. Even though I was definitely I was definitely out for let's say retribution against myself for being such a bad father the first time around. Not a bad father, just like my oldest was moved across country, and I like I was I did no longer had access to her. Right. The relationship wasn't there. Correct. And I really wanted to make good on on this one. And I I really I like I have. Uh so I just uh I mean I maybe it's wishful, maybe I'm wish casting. But I think that there's a call for honesty in men uh that is coming back to the forefront. And it even I see it even in in uh in pop culture, the way the way men are are like we're we're being a lot more vulnerable, a lot more honest as a as a half of the species.

SPEAKER_02 9:13

Well, I mean, yeah, I think we've seen the the the evolution of society get there in many places, at least out here in the United States, and a lot of the more um I guess what they normally refer to as the West, westernized. Um because you have a lot of countries with cultural backgrounds and stuff like that, where it's still predominantly patriarchy, patriarchy, patriarchy. Yeah. Um and again, we we still have a long ways to go here. And I think again, this is one of the things where it gets kind of complicated in the conversations when people start hearing the words like feminism and all that type of thing, and they think like they want to make us all females, right? They want to mess us all like women. I'm like, no, you don't have to lose your masculinity, you don't have to lose the parts of you that are being a man. You're just redefining what that even looks like. And we've done that already automatically, right? Like you don't have gladiators in a stadium killing each other anymore, right? Like we've moved beyond that as being uh a level of, you know, we still have MMA.

SPEAKER_00 10:12

So we've got that going for us.

SPEAKER_02 10:14

But they're not killing each other on a on a daily basis, you know.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

It's a very it's a very slow death. Yeah. Uh yeah, it's it's is it is soci is this a sign that society is uh maturing? Do we get to a point where we actually realize that harming your fellow man is just why?

SPEAKER_02 10:34

It would be interesting. It would be interesting to see the data, because I don't I'm not familiar with the data. The data would be interesting in terms of like, do we have less abusive fathers? Do we have less alcoholic fathers? Do we have less uh absent fathers? Do we have any of those things in terms that make an impact on a child's life? Because you know, you can look at that data and say, oh, we haven't progressed at all. Or you can look at that data and say, oh, we've definitely progressed.

SPEAKER_00 11:01

I would say that you're you're probably looking at data that's always going to be skewed because our our acceptance of we'll call it toxic family life has changed. We used to be very accepting of toxic family life as a society. We just kind of like whatever happens behind closed doors, we don't care. Right. We probably didn't collect the data beforehand. We didn't collect it data, it wasn't honest. Yeah. But now we're being more honest and more open as a whole because and I say I used to say this to every every kid who worked for me who would go, who would be like, you know, oh trying, I got this job interview at this thing, this other place. And I always encourage them, just come and tell me.

SPEAKER_01 11:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:48

And I would tell them, I always gave them the same advice. That's fantastic. Go in there, sit down, put your best foot forward, and remember, never lie. Because the instant that you tell a lie, you have to live that lie for as long as you're in that relationship. And that goes for a for a work relationship, that goes for you know a domestic partner, that goes for a friend. You have to live you have to live in that lie forever. Uh so don't even bother, because you're never gonna remember it. It's easy to remember the truth, right? It's always easy to tell the truth because the truth is is real. It's what's real. Um I think that we need to start thinking like that. Like the truth is it's always unavoidable. It's like this uh the truth is out there. Yeah, the truth is out there. X-Files was a dope ass show for the rest. Um I just when I look at what's happening in the world right now, and we always come back around to politics because it's it's really dominating the world right now. Right. There's there's nothing we can say about it. Right. I mean, hello. Part of the biggest issue that we have is people not being honest and straightforward. And it's causing misconceptions and miscommunications that escalate and spiral out of control. And I mean I hate to bring him up 13 minutes into the show, but uh Donald Trump lies all the time, like just nonstop all the time, doesn't like doesn't even think. He just lies without thinking. Right, like his immediate response is say whatever I have to do to get out of this moment. Right. And because of that, he opens up all these horrible doors. It's a Pandora's box that he can never figure out how to close. We're in a war right now that they can't get out of with while saving face. It's just not possible. Yeah. So what's the plan? We don't know. They didn't tell us the truth up front. So how are we even supposed to reconcile any of this stuff?

SPEAKER_02 14:09

I mean, uh, that was the game plan from the beginning, right? They they just thought they would get instant capitulation and they didn't. Yeah. I mean, they they they aren't, and they are. Like, I I think like on the on the on the face of it, there's a lot of people coming out saying, no, no, no, this is terrible, this is terrible. On the back end of things, I think there's a lot of these same politicians around the world that are going, yeah, I mean, I can't not support that because, you know, I definitely don't want Iran getting too powerful, but look, at the end of the day, I I think that it's it's been more about um tell us all the time, it's been more about power and control than anything else.

SPEAKER_00 14:49

I just I'd be I'm using that as an example of a lie, a big fat fucking lie. Yeah. Or at the very least, a lie of omission. Yeah. Like, we're doing this thing, and then when everybody was like, why? They were like, we're not gonna tell you right now.

SPEAKER_02 15:04

Yeah. No, and the typical gaslighting of like we're we're saving people, we're saving America, we're keeping the world safe, we're keeping the world at peace.

SPEAKER_00 15:13

Ugh. With this side of bh. Yeah. Um it's just an example of a lie that that we have to live in now. And it's the it's the same, it's it's everywhere. You know? It it exists on every little like when I see my kid lie to somebody else and kids, both of them will do it. They'll just pop something off, and I'm like, whoa, that's not true. Yeah. And you can't do that. You know.

SPEAKER_02 15:42

What's interesting too, right? Like the psychology of why human beings lie, and I think so much so much of the time we try to concentrate on like, oh, we'll always tell the truth. And I think that's like digging a hole, too, because you're like, you're you're gonna lie, and there's multiple reasons why you would lie. Um, you're not gonna be a narcissist, crazy liar where you're lying your ass off all the time, right? But every human being is gonna lie about a lot of different things and not even realize it, right? And a lot of it is just through omission, like you don't even think to bring it up because you don't think, like, well, you know, it's it's not gonna hurt anybody. And the thing is you don't really know what's gonna hurt someone in the future or not. And at the same time, like I learned this lesson pretty on, like you can be too honest in certain circles with certain people, right? There's people who will take advantage of your vulnerability, they will take advantage of your truth, they will take advantage of your honesty.

SPEAKER_00 16:35

And the other thing you have to be is you have to be honest with tact as well. If you're if you're tactless and honest, that can be as dangerous and and break as many things as straight up lying. There's also time, place, manner.

SPEAKER_02 16:47

I think sometimes people say, like, well, I'm gonna tell the truth, you know. I'm like, yeah, but maybe sometimes this is not the place to do it. Or this is not the time to do it, right? And and we're gonna get that wrong sometimes, you know, and that's fine. But no, I'm with you. I mean, I think it it impacts people on a daily. I mean, if your boss tells a lie because they're insecure, because they they they don't know what they're doing in that in that particular moment, they just make something up, happens all the time, right? Versus saying, I don't know, and then let's go figure it out. It's still gonna be messy, it's still gonna be frustrating, but you're gonna eventually get there because you're working together to do it, versus making something up, making people think, oh, they've got it under control, and then only everyone realizes, like, oh, wait a minute.

SPEAKER_00 17:33

And now we're all in a hole that this person dug.

unknown 17:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:36

Uh yeah, and I found myself I found myself constantly I found myself constantly when I was in Boss in the know of things that I wasn't supposed to share. And people would ask about those specific things, and then you're stuck in that, you know, I'm honest, and I'd tell them, I do know the answer, but I'm not allowed to share it with you. There are reasons for that, and they'll become apparent later. Right. Um, but that's the best I can do. Right. You know, and some people will accept that and some people will, you know, let it chew on them. Right.

SPEAKER_02 18:14

And I do think, like, even in management, I've seen in cases where like, okay, like what is eating up at this individual? Are they just curious, nosy, or does it actually impact their work in some capacity? Because in certain positions, it will impact their work. And so what do they it I think it's a need to know. But then there's the balance of like, okay, you do need to know, but do I trust you not to say anything to other people that don't need to know? That's the hard part, right?

SPEAKER_00 18:40

So And I call that Knott's Berry Farm.

SPEAKER_01 18:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:44

I mean, I think that's just a lot of places, right? And I mean, this is why communication is so hard sometimes. Because we have to try to balance of like how much information do I give someone, right? Uh we know this happens when we're giving instructions. If you give too much information, you lose people, right? Certainly. You know, so it's it's one of those things where like sometimes you do less as more and you let them kind of struggle through it, and then you give the information as they need it. Um and everybody's different, right? Some people you can give them all the information, they want all the instructions, right? There's people who will open up these manuals when they get a new thing or new toy, and they'll read every little thing before even touching it. Then there's me who will glance at it and start working on it and then go back to the directions when I need to, right? And find out I have to go back five steps and figure out which screw I got in the wrong place. But I'm the guy that throws it over my shoulder and says, let's see what how far I could get without it. Yeah, you know. Um and they also gotta do better about how they make these freaking instruction books, man. Like, they're so boring and so out of place, and like, why is number two over here? And we're like, Yeah. Who numbered this thing? The layouts are always weird. I think we're gonna see it get worse before it gets better. The images and the diagrams. I'm like, this does not look anything like it.

SPEAKER_00 20:00

I have a sneaky suspicion it's gonna get a lot worse before it gets better because this is something that companies are just gonna farm out to AI. Yeah. And it's gonna be uh and whatever happens, happens.

SPEAKER_02 20:11

Yeah, and AI likes to be super smarty pants, so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:15

I uh I I uh I realized what the real problem is with AI the other day. This is me just having here a tangent moment. Is sometimes you're gonna ask it for something that it doesn't know how to do. Yeah. But it's not gonna tell you that. But it's it can't admit that it doesn't know what to do, so it's just gonna make shit up. Yeah. And that therein lies the problem because all of the highest end uses that we have for this stuff, it's gonna be like, I don't know how to do that. And it's gonna start hallucinating and making shit up, and you're gonna turn around and go, Well, I didn't ask for that at all.

SPEAKER_02 20:58

After all these episodes, I think I'm starting to get a sense that you don't like AI track.

SPEAKER_00 21:02

Yeah, I don't. I'm not a fan. I I my problem is I just don't understand why. I'm I'm at the point where I I I'm just an old man that screams at clouds, right? I shake my fist and I yell at the clouds and I say, What is the point of all this?

SPEAKER_02 21:19

And I think the problem is there's a hype with AI. I think that the the industry leaders are trying to hype it up like it's gonna be this next revolution, and they're even using the fear tactic so that people kind of start to believe it. I mean, it manipulates the stock market, it manipulates a lot of things, and I think that's really what they're after. I actually was listening to a podcast the other day that was really finally someone was talking about that and be like, look, it's not that it's not gonna have harms, it's gonna have harms. Like any industry that brings something new and they don't think about it ahead of time, it's gonna have its harms, but it's not gonna be this crazy, life altering, revolutionary thing that happens overnight because a lot of that is just hype, and if you if you pay attention, who's hyping it up the Most. Well, it's all the people who's in the industry who benefit from it. So I'm not that worried about it in terms of it like completely destroying things or anything like that. I am concerned in terms of just like the the mess that it'll create. It is gonna make a mess. In terms of like something as simple as getting your groceries, you know. Um, and so it's one of those things where like you're gonna go to the supermarket and just to check out is gonna be a pain in the ass because the AI machine isn't doing what it's supposed to be doing.

SPEAKER_00 22:30

It's gonna cause a massive upheaval in just the employment sector. Like how people work, what jobs are gonna go away. Um I read that some AI expert was saying that we're gonna have 35% uh unemployment by 2030.

SPEAKER_02 22:50

And I'm just like, it might be it might be this dip that happens, though, because I think the majority of the companies and or and in and industries are eventually gonna push back against it when they realize like, well, I'm not spending the money on the employees, but now I have to spend all this money on training my employees on how to use these tools because there's certain things that you're just gonna still need the human to work with AI to do it. And so they're just eventually gonna push back on it.

SPEAKER_00 23:14

My fear of AI is simple. It is a very, very, very powerful technology that is gonna be in the hands of people who will abuse the fuck out of it. And therein lies my worry. You know, the richest among us have no qualms about replacing the poorest of us with a computer program.

SPEAKER_02 23:35

But that's also never that's nothing new. Yeah. Like if it wasn't AI, it was gonna be something else. Well, the difference is AI is the final ch final link in the chain. Yes and no. But here okay, so here's here's my take on it, and this will bring it kind of full circle back to vulnerability, right? Because vulnerability, emotion, is as much part of the human experience as anything that we're physically and intellectually capable of doing. AI will not necessarily have the physical capabilities in the same way, although through the robotics it can. Um but it will definitely never have that emotional component and vulnerability to it. And if you think about it, anytime we leap forward in progression of technology, it has been for the advancement of society and the advancement of civilization to make things more convenient and easier and better for us to do, regardless of the side effects, right? We can talk about that another day. Because some of them have sure horrible side effects as we as we've seen. But the intention was it's going to advance society for human sake. So if AI if AI doesn't have that in it, it will fail. Because at the end of the day, it's human beings that have to be around to benefit from it.

SPEAKER_00 24:50

Again, again, my question, what is the point of this? Yeah. It's it should be thought of as a tool.

SPEAKER_02 24:58

And nothing more. I think well that I think that's what it is. Is like they got to the point where they realized that, because again, these people who are up on these they live in another world, right? They really do. They often lack empathy.

SPEAKER_00 25:14

They often lack that need for human emotions.

SPEAKER_02 25:20

Yeah, you know, it's like they they don't have a reason to go to a store and open a gift card and feel something from that, unless they just lost all their money from their company. Then all of a sudden they're emotional and they probably don't even understand it. But we know usually that leads to something far worse for them, right? But at the end of the day, they they they just they just don't have that in them. They are human robots, and so they didn't think to think about well, what happens when we're successful with this? And I think finally when they started to realize, well, where does this go? What is the point of it? Well, there is no point to it. Well, shit, we've already spent billions of dollars doing this. Well, now we've got to market it like it's gonna be the next Brigonian revolutionary move in society, right? So I'm I'm I'm worried about it in the sense where like these people do shit like this all the time with all sorts of things, and this one's gonna just call the clusterfuck of all sorts of things in so many places. But I think eventually it'll settle down.

SPEAKER_00 26:30

Like, we're we're definitely not gonna go into the matrix and we're not gonna go into SciFi's been telling us for years that this there's warnings about this. You know, don't don't turn the world over to AI. Yeah, it'll start building robots and getting rid of us because we're the problem.

SPEAKER_02 26:45

I think where where it becomes a problem that we need to worry about it is if it starts to get into uh militaries, right? Uh on a high level, right? I think that's where it becomes a problem. Um and and not in the Skynet sort of way. It's more in the sense like you were talking about, like, I don't know what to do, so I'm gonna come up with a solution because we're designed the AI is designed to do that for the human being.

SPEAKER_00 27:14

The solution, even if there isn't an obvious one, I'm just gonna make it up.

SPEAKER_02 27:18

And my worry is that human beings who will grow up in a generation of that becoming the tool that they understand, right? So you had Gen Z who grew up with like Google, like we grew up in a way where Google didn't exist and then it was introduced to us. So we could cipher the differences. But Gen Z, right, grew up where Google was just always a thing. And so for them it was a tool that they grew up with and they've gotten convenient to it, right? So, like, you know, a younger generation struggles with spelling or simple concepts because the computer does it for them, right? So my fear is that the people who grow up with AI as their convenient tool are gonna depend on that AI to give them this hallucinated solution, and the human is gonna go and push the button that they shouldn't push, right? That to me is the worry more than anything else. So this though goes back to where like I think education needs to be transformed as a whole. It needs to become a priority. I think it needs to become a priority because critical thinking needs to come back. Right. Um schools are so focused on, you know, get these kids in the clax, make them behave, get them to memorize, get them to pass their standardized testing, right? It's like it's just getting through the day, getting through the semester, getting through the year, and we're not really building societies, we're not building communities.

SPEAKER_00 28:47

I'm not a hundred percent in agreement on that. I I do think that just like every family, every I think every school is gonna be a case-by-case basis, because I think that you're gonna find cultures where it works. Like where uh where a principal or where a superintendent has set up a uh a staff that that gets it and that they were they row toward that that common goal, and that they hire teachers that have that same kind of mentality, and and what you'll see is uh teachers who are maybe not hired with that mentality develop that mentality as they go along. Yeah. And I do credit I didn't understand common core as a curriculum when it first hit that it was developed in the during the Obama administration and started rolling out to schools in the mid-teens, 2013, 2014, 2015. And it was it it was hitting, it hit Oklahoma in 2014 when I was living there and I was working for a newspaper, and it was one of the like common discussions was about common core. And I didn't get it even then because I was like, okay, well, they're setting up a standardized testing, right? And a and a standard, a new standard of the way you do things. And Oklahoma was like, well, we want to do it our way. And I would be like, Okay, well, what what's your rank and education in the country? And they're like 46. And I'm like, it sounds like you need all the help you can get. You know, before you before you throw the baby out with the bathwater, maybe you should understand it. And that was just my take on it, and I didn't even understand it. Yeah. And then the pandemic happened, and I went to first grade with my daughter. Right. And I was learning common core math and English, and holy cow, I got it. Yeah. And I was like, oh my goodness, this is a totally different way to teach these core subjects that from the way I'd learned it, which was memorization.

SPEAKER_01 30:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:52

And what they've done is take all of the memorization out of it and teach you the framework. And the framework is the framework, is the framework. And as you move along, and now I've got a sixth grader, her math is still all built on that original. Look at these stupid little blocks and counting that we started with.

SPEAKER_02 31:13

No, I mean don't get me wrong, we've made tremendous progress. I'm not I'm not saying that the the they've they've been stagnant.

SPEAKER_00 31:20

I'm I'm mentioning that as a success.

SPEAKER_02 31:22

Yeah. No, absolutely. Yeah, I'm not I'm not saying like the whole system is broken or anything like that. There's been huge progress, but there's a lot of arenas in within the education system that still need to go. And every district is different, right? Oh, for sure. And it all depends on socioeconomic status, it geography, uh, so many factors that you can factor into it, right? Um and it's not just always rich and poor, right? Because there's wealthier communities that are still struggling academically, right? Because of so many factors. Um, sometimes privilege allows students to get away with a lot of things, right?

SPEAKER_00 31:59

But it does. I just think that education needs to become a a priority. Yeah. Um, just like like health care, when we st when we say use the word healthcare, that's the wrong word. Yeah. Health. Right. Just health. Right. Because it's not just about caring for the ill or the injured, it's also about the prevention of illnesses and injuries. Right. And that's what real health is. Real health does involve your mind. Real health does involve nutrition and activity, like uh regimented activity. So that's it.

SPEAKER_02 32:35

And community. Yeah. Because you're not gonna you're not gonna prevent everything. Yeah, you're gonna have people who have accidents, you're gonna have people who still uh develop certain things despite their best efforts. You're gonna have all of these things, and those people are gonna need more help. And so we need assistance, we need government policies and programs in place. Like, think about when we introduce handicap parking. Uh-huh. Right? I don't know the year. But way back. I'm guessing in the American Disabilities Act. In the 40s and 50s, it wasn't a big thing. No. But I remember you know learning about it and people be you know hating it. Most people were against it.

SPEAKER_00 33:13

Yes, Americans with Disabilities Act. We'll have to look it up.

SPEAKER_02 33:15

Yeah. And then think about the seatbelt.

SPEAKER_00 33:18

Oh, yeah, I remember st I remember the uh seatbelt laws coming to the Oklahoma and people being living. Yeah. People they they it was like I can do whatever I want. It's gonna be the helmet law.

SPEAKER_02 33:30

Or like uh the the the baby seats. Yes, child seats. Child seats in the cars. People threw a fit about that. People tried to, they rallied, they protested against it, they tried to find policy against it, right? This day and age, if you find someone trying to, you know, go against, you know, uh a seatbelt or a child seat, people are like, this guy's a loon. Yeah, right? It's a crazy dog. So sometimes progress takes time, and we have to understand that we're gonna go through this phase of like we don't like change, we don't understand change, right? Um, until we see the benefits from it, and then it becomes commonplace. So some of it, I there there's certain things that I'm for. You just gotta understand that if you've studied it right and you have experts working on it, and they really can basically predict a path of the future of what it can really do, uh, you gotta kind of force it on society sometimes, right? It's like no matter how much backlash it gets, you know it's a good thing, and you know eventually people will come around to it, right? And there's gonna be tweaks and modifications, you gotta be open to it. You can't be stubborn, right? You gotta be, okay, like yes, we didn't get it all correct, so we have to make changes.

SPEAKER_00 34:36

So I think it starts with people who are making these decisions having the ethics to understand that very argument and not get into the y you know what the uh the Trump regime policy on artificial intelligence is, right? No. No one can regulate it. Not the federal government, not the state governments. They don't want anyone regulating artificial intelligence, which screams abuse and corruption. Right. And if anything has its obvious downfall downsides, like artificial intelligence, regulation is one of the only ways to keep companies from abuse and corruption. Yeah. And we have got to iron out the ethics issues in our government, the people who make these decisions. And it's not just about AI, it's about social media, it's about the it's about the internet, it's about power, it's about fossil fuels, it's about monopolies. Well, it's interesting.

SPEAKER_02 35:38

You use something like ethics. You know, and I think for a lot of people that word is subjective. Okay. Right? I guess. Whether it should be or shouldn't it be, right? It's working, but it is.

SPEAKER_00 35:50

If somebody tells me that I find ethics subjective, I go, oh, I'm worried about you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:56

Well, you know, I think there's there's there's areas where I think people most the whole overwhelming majority of people say, yeah. I mean, killing another human being is wrong.

unknown 36:04

Right.

SPEAKER_02 36:06

But I think what happens is it's not so much are their ethics in the wrong place, I think their education is missing. So people who argue against big government, right? But they can never really define where that line is. Like what makes something big, what makes something small, and where are the arenas that you would if you think about sometimes the things that they want to introduce, it's like, okay, like think about the streets you drive on. These large corporations are abusing the shit out of it. Yes. They drive their big trucks on it, their cars, they're That's the ones that are doing most of the depth. They literally manipulate so that there's more convenient routes for them to use that makes your life more tricky because of the traffic or freeway impedes, an eminent domain, all those types of things, right? When you have a strong government system that has proper oversight of those things, they say no.

SPEAKER_01 37:02

Correct.

SPEAKER_02 37:03

Right? When we do these things, it has to benefit the larger population, right? And it's not gonna be perfect. And there may there's gonna be a give and take.

SPEAKER_00 37:12

It's about yeah, that's what that's what politics actually is. Yeah, and the compromise and give and take.

SPEAKER_02 37:17

The irony of it is, right? Yeah, the irony is so funny because that what they fear is corruption within government, and I get it, because there is. But I'm like, who do you think is corrupting these people?

SPEAKER_00 37:27

Yeah. It's the people that you want to turn everything over to. It's not the poor people, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:31

It's the people you're saying, no, let them have free enterprise, right? And I'm like, um. Okay. That's the crazy part, right? It's like we we wanna they wanna get rid of the the the assassin, but they want to hand it over to the person who hired the assassin. And so it's the crazy part, you know, but you know, it's interesting that you you opened up with vulnerability because I think that vulnerability and humility are two strong characteristics of leadership and two strong characteristics of people who can actually have an impact in progressing us forward. So as a father, you're gonna be a much better better father because of your vulnerability, right? I think so. As a partner, you're gonna be a much better partner because of your vulnerability and your your humility. I can't think, right, of a time where parents would apologize to their kids. I apologize to my kid all the time.

SPEAKER_01 38:34

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:35

Because I know when I mess up, right? Um, my father seldomly did that, right?

SPEAKER_00 38:42

My father Devin did, and he was a piece of shit. Yeah, well, you know. I think he tried to on his deathbed. Yeah. But um, yeah, I'm not gonna take that one.

SPEAKER_02 38:53

Yeah, you know, yeah. Again, yeah, my my dad definitely wasn't perfect, you know, and before he passed away too, right? He told he apol he tried to apologize to me as if he had like failed me or something. Right. And I was like, what are you talking about? Like, you never laid a hand on me. You always provided for our family, right? I always had food, and yeah, I had my struggles, and yeah, there's things that were missed, but overall, at the end of the day, I was safe, I was protected, and I felt safe, and I felt like I had a home.

SPEAKER_00 39:25

You made it to adulthood as a good adult. Yeah. And that's the sign of a of a good upbringing. I always felt like I can come home and be safe.

SPEAKER_02 39:32

Oh yeah, that's huge. Right? So at the end of the day, I was like, I it surprised me that he was trying to apologize, you know. And again, we're humans, we have regret, we have all these types of things that build up, but I think at the end of the day, right, like there's that fear of people taking advantage of our vulnerability. And so I think what toxic masculinity turns into is basically that you run away from that fear or you hide it with aggression, right? And there's a lot of people who still believe that aggressiveness is the answer because they know most people aren't gonna be aggressive and they they think that gives them a leg up.

SPEAKER_00 40:13

Yeah, but it gives you the initiative in quote unquote confrontations or in contests.

SPEAKER_02 40:19

But I'm like, yeah, if you're if you're playing a game of whatever sport you're playing and you're the more aggressive one, you probably do have a better shot in most cases. But not everything in life is a sp an aggressive type sport. That's right. And even certain sports, right? If you don't have the right finesse, if you don't have the right flexibility, if you don't have the right humility, if you don't have the ability to s to keep your emotions in check and your anger in check and be calm, right, you're not gonna be the best athlete. Lose control.

SPEAKER_00 40:49

Right? I think that there's a fine line that you do need to walk with vulnerability, honesty, and and then you also have to have a degree of belief in yourself that you've done the right things. Yeah. And like my mother, for example, kind of like had terrible self-esteem, and we've talked about self-esteem in in a lot of depth. And so she never thought she was good enough or anything, never never gave herself credit for things. And that type that's taking your vulnerability too far, and what you perceive as honesty, which is I'm talking about my failures way too far because it's not a total failure. She wasn't a failure, she was a good mom who worked her ass off for her family and tried to always give her best.

SPEAKER_02 41:43

Um It's interesting though, because earlier you mentioned about like how the we jokingly said the truth is out there.

SPEAKER_01 41:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:50

But in humans, what happens is it basically just manifests in another capacity. So when you do hide things, right, they just manifest in another way. Now I'm not saying tell your children everything. No, no, there's lots of things they don't need to know.

SPEAKER_00 42:04

There's a lot of stuff that they're not ready for.

SPEAKER_02 42:06

But you need to go deal with it somewhere else. Yeah. Because otherwise it's just gonna come out in some other capacity, right? Whether it's having a bad night of drinking, whether it's getting mad at them for something you shouldn't, whether, you know, whatever it is, whether you're distracted while driving, who knows, right? That can impact their health and their safety, their life.

SPEAKER_00 42:27

And so I love it when the landscapers come by and give their two cents to us in the middle of my recording. It's all happens all the time I'm doing my other show. Landscapers rolling through this that garage opens into a place with almost no vegetation, yet that guy is right outside with a blower. And yeah, our grass is always way too long.

SPEAKER_02 42:50

Oh man, but yeah, I mean it's it's a hard life, it's a hard world, and everybody's gonna deal with it in different ways, and I think we're all having to have different approaches to it, and we often find communion in those that maybe we have some relatability towards in terms of how we're dealing with things. But at the end of the day, I do think that no matter what we do as a society and as communities, if we don't start to progress in the forms that we have been, which right now I think we're going backwards, right, in these last five or six years.

SPEAKER_00 43:29

Uh probably more like 15.

SPEAKER_02 43:31

Yeah, it probably started back then. Yeah. There was and and again, that's part of the protest. I think there was this this wave of like we were accepting this new form of what it means to be a man, what it means to be masculine, what it means to be a good human, even, right? Um, and you know, it and it's tough, it's a tough balance. I mean, with my kid, right? Like I tell him every day, I I told you every time I drop him off from school, you know, I hope you have a great day. Be kind and kick ass. You know, and I mean to kick ass as in like do a good job, do your best, right? Like not literally go kick someone's ass. Um but then I jokingly sometimes tell him, but if someone messes with you, kick their ass, you know? Yeah. Um knowing that my kid's just not gonna do that, right? Um, he's too nice. Uh but I sometimes worry about that, right? Because you know, he's too nice, people take advantage of that. Yeah. And kids love doing that, right? Um and so it's kind of showing him that balance of like, no, I mean, there there is some assertiveness that I do want you to learn. There is some, I guess, for lack of a better term, aggression that I want you to learn. Because I do I do think that aggression is built into humans in some capacity. It is part of us as well, and we can't deny it.

SPEAKER_00 44:45

Yeah, it's what makes us strive for, you know, strive as opposed to survive. Yeah. Uh uh aggression is is part is dialed in. You know, you just want to do better. Yeah. You want to do better than your parents did, you want to do better than your, you know, your own.

SPEAKER_02 44:59

Well, and I think sometimes you do have to push through things.

SPEAKER_00 45:02

You want to go back to your high school reunion and go, look at this. Look at this hot lady I got. Third wife, bro. Yeah. Third wife. Yeah. The other two, not quite as hot, but still hot. I did, I crushed it. I crushed it. That guy is literally right outside. Yeah. Uh yeah, we all want to compete a little bit. Hold on. And with that, the landscaper has moved on to somewhere else. So um we're transforming a society the hard way, right? Yeah. We're all we're all learning slowly, we're all starting from a from a place of relative ignorance. I just like I wanted to make one more point before we check out, and that is in regards to social media, which we've talked about many times on the show, because uh it's it's a part of our lives. And we have a tendency as uh uh people who use social media, you you recently left it, most of it. One of it, Facebook, yeah. I still have Instagram. Um we think of what what we see on social media as what's happening. Yeah, like like this is this is the world. Right. And it is, but it's only a little tiny part of it. When we uh interact on social media, that's that's one way to interact with people.

SPEAKER_01 46:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:44

You will if you're if you are somebody who is not housebound, if you're out and about and doing things, you have the opportunity to interact with far more people over the course of a day than you do actually interacting with people on social media. And I mean not just liking a post, I mean sending a message, responding to a post, putting out a post of your own that gets responses and you respond to the responders. Yeah. So you'll notice it's starting to happen around the world. Australia did it. There's several European countries that are doing it. They are putting bans on social media for uh people under the age, children under the age of 16, sometimes it's under the age of 18.

SPEAKER_02 47:27

Yeah, one of the uh governoral cra candidates here in California wants to do that.

SPEAKER_00 47:31

Yeah, it's probably more commonplace than we think. The the the thought of banning putting a putting an age limit on social media just like cigarettes or but the problem too is is is is is parenting, right?

SPEAKER_02 47:44

Like a lot of parents are just so gung-haul and getting their kids' phones early on, and it's almost like this uh safety net for them, and I don't really understand it.

SPEAKER_00 47:57

It opens the door for a new technology for dumb phones to become way more prevalent, and there is nothing stopping one of these companies. I'm looking at you, Apple, you make one of the best products on the planet. Why don't you make a smartphone that doesn't have all the bells and whistles? Right. Or uh like an Apple Watch that's dialed in. Yeah, like like my daughter uses an Apple Watch. Right. And she can text on it, she can talk on it, right? Uh like a like a phone phone. Right. And it has a very limited scope of apps. Right. You could make a phone that does that exact same thing. Right. Relatively easy. Yeah, and people can pay. You could offer it at a at a reduced subscription, and it would become super popular. People would be happy to buy them, to provide them for their kids as a way, a leash for them to get a hold of them.

SPEAKER_02 48:46

And they'll get them earlier on because again, they won't become distractions in school. Yeah. They can get them at an earlier age, so you'll have more little kids, more parents buying it for little kids and stuff like that. But yeah, I I I think the the the again, I always come back to like you have people in power and control, but then you have the rest of us who allow ourselves, right, to kind of be manipulated in some capacity, right? Granted, there's only so much power we can have, but I think at the same time, like we're so concerned with waking up and having fun. We're so concerned with being accepted by the people around us, right? At a certain age. Right. Um, you know, as you get older, like me, like I'm more concerned with like, am I gonna be a good father? Am I gonna do well in my career, right? Like, and I actually care about those things. It's not just like a paycheck, right? But there's a lot of people when you're younger where you're just not thinking about those things, right? Um and it's part of it's part of growing, right? It's part of maturing, it's part of doing all that. So I think it's on parents and community and people who work with with youth to offer perspective and limitations.

SPEAKER_00 49:59

And limitations. And one of the things that I did want to say about social media specifically is it seems like it's a lot, but really it's not. It's just really loud. It's a volume thing. And all of these people who make their money on engaging on social media are loud. And the louder they are, the more money they make, and they they seem like they they know what's going on, they don't. They seem like they're people that that should be respected and followed, they shouldn't. Right. You know, there are there's a very much a keyboard cowboy thing that goes on. Um, we used to joke about it, like you would do instant messaging and stuff like that, yeah and chat rooms. Like, you're real tough when you're on social media. Yeah. But when you're in, you know, in the real world, you're not.

SPEAKER_02 50:55

John Stewart was talking about this, and he talked about how Reddit used to be this platform that just got way out of hand.

SPEAKER_00 51:02

Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 51:03

Right. And then they started putting regulators and they started controlling the um the uh what do you call it? The the the the the algorithm and all that type of stuff, and it's well more regulated now where people can go on Reddit and you have it be a useful tool and have more decent conversations, yes.

SPEAKER_00 51:19

Where people share experiences and and information, and that's what Reddit was for. Right.

SPEAKER_02 51:24

Originally. I love the reason I keep my Instagram, right? I might say like, oh, it's a place to keep memories and all that type of stuff, but it's not even that. That's not even the case. Oh, I got family in Watermelon, sure, but that's not really the case. In the reality, it's funny as hell.

SPEAKER_00 51:40

It's it's entertaining.

SPEAKER_02 51:40

I it's entertaining. It's another way. Like, there's there's nights where I'm like, I'm not gonna watch a show, I'm not gonna watch a movie, I'm just gonna scroll through my reels, and I just start busting out laughing. And it's and I send it to people, I send it to my partner, I send it to my friends, I send it to my cousins, and that's another way of you know interacting with people that otherwise I probably wouldn't.

SPEAKER_00 51:56

I do I do that on the YouTube rabbit hole too.

SPEAKER_02 51:59

Yeah, and that and so it's like in the and again, as long as you balance it and you under you accept it like this is just funny or this is entertainment, then you're fine, right? It's like the whole concept of like if you're gonna go watch a movie and you think now that all of a sudden you can get behind the wheel of a car and start doing all these crazy moves that they're doing, right? Then you shouldn't be watching those movies, right? That's why we rate movies.

SPEAKER_00 52:22

How much I want to be, I can't be John Wick. Right.

SPEAKER_02 52:25

Yeah, exactly. I'm just not gonna move like he does, right? Uh really Keanu Reeves, because he he can actually do those things. He's a badass. And a good dude. My hair is almost like his, but not mine's too thick. Um, his is a lot thinner.

SPEAKER_00 52:41

His but yeah, his is somewhere between yours and mine. Yeah. Mine's super thin. Super thin.

SPEAKER_02 52:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:47

But I'm also bald on top.

SPEAKER_02 52:49

Mine's also not even, so because I got this weird cut, so like the back is way shorter.

SPEAKER_00 52:53

But it's looking good though. You handsome fellow. Yeah. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 52:57

No, I want it to get long enough, and then once it's long enough, then I'll want to just even it all out. But it'll probably take a few more months before I get there. That's okay.

SPEAKER_00 53:06

I've waited this long. I'm jealous. I just don't cut my hair. I stopped cutting it like two years ago, and this is what it looks like.

SPEAKER_02 53:13

Yeah, well uh I guess I used uh you have thinner hair, so it's for me, it's it gets so thick, it gets so frowy, it gets wavy.

SPEAKER_00 53:22

I uh I did stop like really giving a shit what the rest of the world thought of me. I shaved my head for 25 years because I I have a giant like Friar Tuck bald spot. And you know, when that started when I was in my early 20s, I mean, come on, man. That sucks. Yeah. The guy that wears a hat all the time, but or shaves her head. A good looking head. So it worked out fine. Yeah. You know, I just give myself a buzz cut, whatever. I never have to pay for a haircut. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:54

Uh isn't it interesting though how we we're embarrassed within our our means by that? Like someone who's born without an arm.

SPEAKER_00 54:05

Right.

SPEAKER_02 54:05

Right? They are they get to the point where they don't care about what people think about their arm, but then they'll care about something else. Right? Whereas we have all our limbs, so we worry about a bald spot, right? We we we we're always within that that space within our realm, you know, and and I I always find that interesting, right? Like you you you you think about sometimes we make comparisons like, well, we don't have it as bad as some of the people in some of these third world countries. I'm like, that's true, but you still have problems. Yeah. And your problems are gonna weigh on you based on how you grew up and within the means in which you understand the world.

SPEAKER_00 54:44

Uh you know, they may not be survival problems, but yeah, you know, they they're definitely survival problems. Yeah. I just coined that word.

SPEAKER_02 54:52

Yeah, nice. Survival. Well, in in some instances they can still be survival.

unknown 54:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:59

Because you still have communities in where that is survival. And I think because we think like, well, we live in America or we live in this first world country, you know, how you know they're they're not doing well because of them.

SPEAKER_00 55:09

Lack of resources and we're not doing well because of resources not being distributed particularly well.

SPEAKER_02 55:19

Yeah. So look, i if your life is about balance, community is about balance, society is about balance, economics is about balance. So we it should be.

SPEAKER_00 55:29

If if if we want it to thrive, if we want it to work. But we actually we actually now essentially worship at the altar of excess.

SPEAKER_02 55:37

Yeah. But but we're still a lot of a lot of people are still having the the the argument of capitalism versus uh socialism. It's like, I don't care. Uh either one of them can work.

SPEAKER_00 55:48

Right. It's not the ism that you should be worried about. It's the corruption of the ism. Right. Uh capitalism can be just as corrupt as socialism. Yes. As communism, as any other ism.

SPEAKER_02 56:00

Yeah. Well, we do know is authoritarianism doesn't work. That we do know.

SPEAKER_00 56:05

Well, uh it can work for a brief amount of time before everybody goes, wait a minute. Freedom is way better than being subjects of a king. Yeah. Or dictator or whatever. But we wouldn't it wouldn't be one of our shows if we didn't wrap back around to politics at the very end.

SPEAKER_02 56:23

I think like you said, politics isn't everything. The the the personal is political and social media is political. Social media is political. And these days, you know, they they have the option now. I know some my friends told me like there's an option of the button, like, you know, anything politics, I can turn that off off my algorithm. So now I don't see anything pol political. What? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:42

So what social media pro platform does that?

SPEAKER_02 56:45

Uh I think Insta.

SPEAKER_00 56:47

Um that's that's damn impressive.

SPEAKER_02 56:50

Yeah. Um I have not turned mine off though, because I still like to see the craziness that's out there.

SPEAKER_00 56:56

Sometimes the memes are, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:58

Legit funny. But I can I can filter it to a degree, right? And if it gets too much, then I just get off of it for a while.

SPEAKER_00 57:04

But like Mona like like Melania just randomly calling a press conference. I was never on the plane with Ipstein.

SPEAKER_02 57:13

And I like how the framing of that was like, oh, she's trying to call out that the Epstein files can get um more exposure. I'm like, no, she's trying to cover her ass. You morons.

SPEAKER_00 57:26

Politicians have been doing this for a hundred years. Yeah. This is a move to cover her butt because something's about to hit, and she doesn't want you to know. Right. But and it's so bad that she's gonna try to get in front of it. Woo! Anyway, I just I was watching it live going, what is happening?

SPEAKER_02 57:54

That is so crazy. The world is crazy. And and it's so unbalanced, and it's so insane in so many ways. And at the same time, it's really cool that you and me are in here sitting in your garage, speaking into these microphones that are hooked up with a USB cord to a laptop, and we have other human beings who are tr who just traveled 25,000 miles per hour through the atmosphere and landed in the middle of the ocean. Like, how crazy is that? Where it's just like two different lives, right? Um oh man, all of these talk about social media, man. I've just been cracking up like crazy at these these moon things that people are this one guy was like every everything looks flat. Why no it's like I I'm not a flat earther, but why are you giving flat earthers a platform to go crazy on? Like, get your freaking camera on video, hit record, and shut the fuck up. And just show me the moon on your video camera. Show me the earth on your video camera, right? Like, w why are you showing me a picture that that looks like we took it in the 1960s?

SPEAKER_00 59:16

Like uh, well, I mean unfiltered space is pretty crisp and clean. Yeah. Uh I think that for all the shit NASA has taken since they decommissioned the the shuttle program, we're talking decades now. Yeah. And they haven't really done much of anything. It's like 53 years. Uh this is the first time back to the moon in 53 years since 1972. First time in my lifetime. And I was I'm like blown away. I was obsessed with the NASA program and the and the moon, the Apollo program, and then all the stuff that came before, and all the probes that we sent out into the world, the Viking probe to Mars and the Voyager, which is has gone beyond our solar system and found that there's like an outer frickin' boundary.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:05

What? But see, I think that this is the this is one of the problems with social media. It has warped our brains into thinking that there is no space. Because we didn't all sit in front of the television to watch this thing take off. I did. We didn't and no, I said I like think about 53 years ago, everyone was on there too watching this, right? It was a it was an event. That was a worldwide event, right? Whereas people are just on social media making fun of it, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:36

I also think it'll it'll be an event when they do the actual lunar landing. When they go to land on it. Not to the extent of what it was before. I don't know. I think it'll be pretty b pretty bothered. I think it's pretty much But I wanted to give NASA a shout out for having gone dormant for so long. Yeah. Their social media game is top notch. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:55

And, you know, a big credit for them because usually you can't get organizations and government funding for something like that unless there's some sort of world reason to do so. Like before we were competing against the Soviets and then Russia, right? And so like we had a reason to do it that was putting us on a platform and some other capacity. Right now, it's just we're doing it because we we want to explore.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:22

No, we're doing it because we're gonna set up a moon base where which will become the leaping off point to get to Mars. Yeah, but it's exploration. But it's exploration. It is, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:34

Right? Like, sure, there's probably some concept of like this could be the future of one day, and right we may have to leave Earth type of thing one day, and all that. Oh, we're we're doing away with the earth way too fast. I know, but it'd be thousands of years before that, but there's got to be a starting point.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:50

We are we are seriously wrecking this planet right now, and uh and the idea of uh remember, all of those solar and wind programs that were closed down because you know, all that stuff is woke, and we should be on fossil fuels, and then they start a war with a giant fossil fuel producing nation, and suddenly fossil fuels are crazy ass expensive. And everybody was like, well, you know, the the all that woke wind and solar power, fuck, man. You know who's laughing? China. Yeah. Because they've threw all their weight into renewable energy, and so they're like shrugging their shoulders, it's not good, but we're doing better than you idiots are. Yeah. Anyway. Vulnerability and China. Honesty, China. This episode had it all because everything we do has it all. We are the jambalaya of podcasts. And that sounds like a greeting card. The j sounds like a greeting card. We had we started out with greeting cards. But uh thank you for listening. And thank you for being here, George, specifically. Oh, thank you. But thank the listeners for listening. I should be more specific. George, thank you for being here and having this conversation with me. Mama stay. Uh, and thanks to the listeners for for sticking with us through all this nonsense. Uh, we'll come back soon. Absolutely. I guess. And um you wanna you wanna any closing thoughts?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:24

Um You know, be kind and whatever it is you're doing to waking up to, whether life is sucking right now or whether you're doing great, go and kick ass. You know, uh sometimes that means starting over, sometimes that means revolutionizing yourself, sometimes it means pushing back, and sometimes it means you know, finding grace. Um I love that. You know, I I I want to thank you. Oh recently you you taught me something about grace that I had forgotten. Um to learn well, to learn to remember that you gotta give people grace sometimes because they're humans and they're gonna make mistakes and they're gonna make you frustrated, and boy, has it made a tremendous difference in my outlook. Oh because these days I'm just like and then ten minutes later it doesn't even matter. Yeah. Whereas before that would have taken me hours or a day or two, right, to get to that point. So remembering grace is is something that I think has helped me recently, and so I will pass that forward. Have grace.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:38

Thank you so much. I appreciate that. Yeah, we are uh we are on a voyage uh as individuals in a shared spaceship called Earth that hurdles through space and you stole that from an astronaut. And uh and yeah, I probably did. Uh I just think that it's great that we can have relationships that are that are enriching. Yeah. To make your life better. That's that's what we should shoot for. So with that, we'll be back before you know it. How about that? Thank you for listening to No Plan No Problem.

unknown 1:05:14

We're out.