Why Content Flops | Jule Kim | Full Battery Media

In this episode of the Full Battery Media Podcast, I sit down with executive coach and former content marketer Jewel Kim for a real conversation about content creation, burnout, mindset, and what actually makes content work. 

We get into why so many creators and founders quit too early, why content without personal purpose falls flat, and how building an audience takes way more than chasing quick views or instant conversions. We talk about content strategy, authenticity, AI-generated content, personal storytelling, fear of judgment, creator anxiety, and the difference between making content for validation versus making content that genuinely means something. This conversation really opened up around how to find your voice, understand your audience, stay consistent, and create content that fits your personality instead of forcing yourself into a formula that was never built for you. 

If you are a founder, coach, creator, marketer, or anyone trying to grow a brand online without losing yourself in the process, this one is for you.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

You know, I think that's why we see such a plethora of shitty content. Okay. Like mediocre content, really weak sauce. I'm like, you have managed to somehow spend 200 words without really saying anything of meaning or substance. And I'm not gonna foist my unsolicited opinions at them unless they ask me. You know, it's like you have to ask me for my opinion. I'm not here to just criticize and tear everybody down just cuz, but I do think we are overwhelmed and inundated by just poor quality content. And it's only gotten worse with AI. Thank you, Sean, for having me. It's exciting for me to be on here since I've listened to several of your episodes. Hello, everyone. My name is Joel Kim. I'm an executive coach for Women Who Lead. I also have a background in content marketing from my days in corporate.

SPEAKER_02 1:06

That's awesome. Like one of the challenges is before we started this podcast, we've been going back and forth as to what to talk about because you have such cool stuff that you talk about with your coaching. But also I wanted to ask you about the marketing because it's something like you know one of the specific reasons that I wanted to do that was because the idea of someone who's a coach but also has a marketing background, because one of the ch most challenging things I find for people in content. Yesterday I met an absolutely amazing YouTuber who has this phenomenal YouTube channel and they're they're quitting because it's like just keeping it up is is hard. And you know, and I I wanted to ask you, you know, are there any mindset things that people need to think about when it comes to creating content for themselves or others?

SPEAKER_00 1:58

You know, this is probably going to be a very unpopular opinion, but I see what you just described, like a YouTuber who's quitting. This often happens with people where they have gone into it for some sort of business objective and they haven't actually pulled forth a personal objective of their own. So let me give you an example. For myself, I came into the world of creating content like way back. You know, this is gonna age me. But I started a blog back in 2004 when I went to law school. And this is right uh, I think it's right around the time when blogs started to hit their heyday. So this is also right when Facebook first appeared on the scene. And then, you know, several years later, I think Twitter comes on. But social media is in its very infant stages, like right before then, you had MySpace and then Friendster. So I think content creation didn't exist like how it exists today. So I come on the scene with blogging and I run into like a lot of stuff, but I first started blogging because I just wanted to express myself. And I think that we see burnout, we see people quitting when they don't have that self-purpose in place. So at the end of the day, if I produce a content, like a piece of content and it gets like five views, it gets like one like or no likes, at least I walk away satisfied because I wrote it for me and nobody else.

SPEAKER_02 3:21

Yeah. Right. Right. That's one of the things too. I think that that's important. Going back to MySpace, yeah, there wasn't much content creation going on there. The only thing that you could do with that was like edit like falling stars and stuff, like that you could change the ATM. And I remember that, man. And I was just like, all I was in college and everyone had the falling stars. I'm like, how the heck do you do the falling stars stuff, man? That was me.

SPEAKER_00 3:45

I had that too.

SPEAKER_02 3:46

You had the falling stars? That was Rats. See, I never figured that out. I just had minor, like, I had filter settings and put a cool picture on. But yeah, there wasn't really content creation. And I think that one thing that popped up is I think that the people getting into it now are at a disadvantage. I remember working with um some kids that were from really challenging backgrounds when I was living in the US. And um, it was interesting because I was asking them, you know, what do you want to be in when you grow up? And they were like, I want to be an NBA player, I want to be a rapper, I want to be, you know, there were all these this this thing. And I was like, well, why? I was like, you're five foot two. Um, you know, I don't know about the NBA for you. I'm not, I'm not hating, I'm not saying that it's not possible, but I was like, Do you play basketball? No, no, no, no, I don't play basketball. Okay, well, why do you want to be in the NBA? And they were like, Well, because I can be rich. And one of the things too is I see a lot of people that are like playing the content game and they did get into it because there's like, well, I'm playing the lottery, you know? And the reality is, is they're not in it because their heart's in it. They're in it just because the possibility is there. And whether that be you're on TikTok or LinkedIn, you know, the linked influencers that are like, you know, I'm gonna get more business leads, you know, and it's still the same thing. Like, are you sharing content that you're passionate about? Are you just doing it because you feel like you need to?

SPEAKER_00 5:10

I can't agree with you more. You know, I think that's why we see such a plethora of shitty content, okay? Like mediocre content, really weak sauce. I'm like, you have managed to somehow spend 200 words without really saying anything of meaning or substance. And I'm not gonna foist my unsolicited opinions at them unless they ask me, you know, it's like you have to ask me for my opinion. I'm not here to just criticize and tear everybody down just because, but I do think we are overwhelmed and inundated by just poor quality content, and that's only gotten worse with AI.

SPEAKER_02 5:45

Yeah, I a hundred percent agree because like I have a company that we produce content for people. And one of the things I see is I partner with some other people, and I see that just the quality drop is huge, and it's these AI generated scripts. I'm here to tell you why you can, you know, do-da-da-da-da-da. And it's like, come on, man, that's that's not gonna move the needle. That's not gonna do anything. You know, if you're if you're if you're spamming people, they're gonna see right through it. And I I'm not gonna play up the it needs to be authentic, but it does need to be something that you have to actually give a shit about, you know. Like, I mean, I'm gonna say that way, you know, it's like, do you care? Because and I want to ask you this question because it's kind of tied in. A lot of founders think they need more content, but how do you help someone figure out what kind of content actually drives growth? Because, like, I I work with with wineries as well. Because I'm from the Napa Valley, I've got my Barrels and Roots podcast. I have some wineries come to me, and they're like, we want this really beautiful video that just shows the winery. I'm like, that's not gonna sell a damn thing. Like, it's not gonna sell anything. Tell some human stories. Like, see Bob over there, Bob that's making the wine. Bob's got a cool story. Let's talk about Bob and what he's putting in, all his heart and soul that he's putting into making this wine. And like, oh, I don't know about that. And then we do it, and those videos take off because people see that we give a shit about Bob, you know?

SPEAKER_00 7:07

That's a hard one. You know, like I've done my share of marketing consulting. And when I run into the scenario like you just described, where the client clearly has like a fixed vision of the content they want, and you know it's not gonna do well, and yet it's challenging to disprove that, right? Depending on how how much they've got their hands in the pie, you know, like how much they are of a micromanager. So sometimes you run into this weird issue of like you almost gotta like let them waste their dollars so they can learn the lesson. Because if you don't, you know, there's always that like what if in the back of their mind. And I don't know. I just let them have their way sometimes because they are driving the show.

SPEAKER_02 7:51

Right? They are they are driving the show. One of the things too that I I think is interesting about that is is I run into when I talk to people is um the the the learning curve is steep, you know, for this. And I see a lot of companies will get in and go, oh, it it didn't work. But you know, and the one of the things is is I think people let's imagine someone is dating. Like let's imagine dating app or going out, you know, you say, Hey, I want to meet someone new. And so I'm giving them some advice. I'm like, all right, well, why don't you try going out to a place that you enjoy? Maybe they go to go out to a library or yoga class, whatever, you know, a place that you might find people that are are similar to you. And they go one day and they come back, you know what, I just didn't meet anyone, I'm giving up. And one of the things that I think that I I run into with content, it's the same, is like people one of the biggest mistakes that I see people making and businesses making is that when they start making content, they expect conversion in like day day one or two. And and I I was curious of like what you think about that and what what what you see people, what misconceptions you see people having about making content.

SPEAKER_00 9:03

Oh my God, like how much time do we have?

SPEAKER_02 9:07

Right.

SPEAKER_00 9:08

This is a nightmare, you know. You're right. Many of them expect conversions from day one. I go into this whole thing where I'm telling them up front, if you want conversions from day one, then you would be better off putting your money towards ads. Okay. But you have to keep in mind that ads is playing the short game because as soon as you take your dollars out of the advertising budget, right, with Facebook or Google, whatever the platform is, then your conversion funnel, it just dies because you have not built the long-term foundation for the content marketing engine or the ecosystem. So do you have content that can be found? If somebody Googles something on a topic related to what you do, will you come up in those results? If someone searches in any of the AI chatbots, right, like ChatGPT or Claude, will your name come up as associated in that realm? If people search on you on social media, will your name come up? So if you don't have that in place, the minute you stop putting money towards ads, then you have nothing. And I see this going back and forth because people it's probably like the same kind of reasons with working out at the gym. You know, it's like going to the gym and expecting to get a six-pack in like the first week. It's like, no, that's not how this works.

SPEAKER_02 10:27

Right? It is, it's so true. And I think that one of the things too is like, and this is where I wanted to tap into it because and this is where I feel like there's a a fun crossover because I feel like there's it there's a huge psychological component. Like there is a mindset component. Like we in general, people love that immediate gratification. But if you're wanting to build something, next door they've been building a house and it's a beautiful house, absolutely stunning house. And like it was not easy. It took time. I saw them destroy the house that was there, tear it down to the foundation, rip out the foundation, put in a new foundation, and they are working in the mud and dirt. Like they are deep down in the mud and dirt. And people, you know, we get scared of the mud and dirt. We don't like the mud and dirt. You know, the mud and dirt in life is is challenging. But the reality is, is if you want to build something great, you have to start and and build it in a way that is sustainable and that you're building a strong foundation first. And that's a that's a mindset and psychology thing. You know, I I think that we want to chase and I think that social media makes us believe that there are quick instant wins. And, you know, and I I think that there's a lot of that out there right now.

SPEAKER_00 11:46

You're right. I think social media is really dicey because it is one of those places you can have short, immediate wins. But for that to happen, you must have like that triple X factor in place already. Like you have to have some version of a unique perspective, some kind of entertaining facet to your personality. Like there must be something in you where you are able to put yourself forth for the audience to then engage with and for the algorithm to then push your content out further. You know, these things happen, but I think we're looking at less than 1% of the content out there. You know, it's like very few and like far between. The mindset issues are really hard because for creating content, let's say we're talking about social media. I mean, for the love of God, like if we're even saying, can you write something and post that, publish it anywhere, I don't care where. Like it could be your website, it could be on Pinterest or LinkedIn. And even from that, like just written text, you already run into issues. And you've probably seen the same with many of your clients because people are so afraid of being judged. So, you know, you talk about the mud and dirt in life, and I'm like, well, in the content creation realm, I think a lot of the mud and dirt is it is self-discovery. It is discovering the limits of your ego, of seeing that there is a very strong chance you are going to be judged and perceived online to a degree that you have never experienced before. And I've gone through it. I have been dragged. Like I have said like terrible stuff about people and then learned the error of my ways. I don't know if you've been through that. You seem to have a very wholesome channel from what I've seen.

SPEAKER_02 13:26

But I I I I have for my share of throwing people under the bus.

SPEAKER_00 13:30

So yeah, I I wouldn't recommend that, but even if you say the truest of true things, there's always going to be people out there who have a problem with you for some stupid ass reason. And you have to be ready for that. So it's like you talk about the mindset game. I'm like, if you sign up for content creation, this is the journey in self-discovery you don't know you're actually signing up for.

SPEAKER_02 13:56

Yeah, I I completely agree. I I think that that's one of the things too that I when I started um I hate watching myself like on podcasts. I just I I'm not a fan of like going back and watching, and like when I was able to pass off my editing to my chief podcast editor, it was such a joy for me.

SPEAKER_00 14:19

How come? Like, what's what's the issue with seeing yourself?

SPEAKER_02 14:24

I don't like to rehash conversations. I love to be in them. I because I sit there and I and I'm sitting there going, I missed that that cue. I missed that thing that was said. And I wanted to like, oh, I if I had been listening more carefully in that moment, I I might have picked up on some beautiful nugget that someone gave me. It's not about what I'm doing or how I look. It's about, did I miss a context? Did I miss a direction that someone was was handing to me that I that I could have done better? And so it's like I just have to give myself a level of self-forgiveness and just look at it this way. Like every single podcast I do, I get better. Every single time I'm interviewing someone, I'm getting better. Uh, because if I were to just, you know, I'll start beating myself up real fast about missing something in the conversation. And that's that's more of it. But I mean, early on, I was like, oh, that lighting doesn't look good. This, this, I'm moving like this. I blink a lot or whatever it might be. But you know, I kind of got beyond. I did used to blink a lot. I I I had this thing. Like, I remember when I was in Hollywood, I was like, you know, working in acting, and I was on this short film, and I don't know what makeup they were using, but they put some eyeliner on me. And I'm like my first short film role that it was all mine. I'm a lead actor, and I'm just like like this the whole time. And they're like, why are you blinking so much? I was like, I don't know, man. Something's going on with this makeup. Not a fun experience.

SPEAKER_00 15:55

Oh no, that's a nightmare. You're probably allergic to the eyeliner. Like, that's a real thing.

SPEAKER_02 15:59

I'm 100%, 100%, 100% sure I was. 100%. That's so unfortunate. So so horrible. Like my first big role. And everyone's like, why is this guy blinking like crazy? And I was like, I don't know, something's wrong. Yeah. Now now I know. Didn't know at the time.

SPEAKER_00 16:19

I'm sorry, I don't mean to be laughing, but gosh, that that does sound like a nightmare.

SPEAKER_02 16:24

If you can't laugh, then what are you even doing? Like, no, please laugh. I I think that we have to be able to find amusement and humor in those challenging situations. And like, that's one of the things I do now is when I look back at old episodes, I just laugh. And I laugh at where I failed, laugh at, you know, how how far I've come, not not in judgment, but just in like, wow, good job. You know, I was doing the best I could, and that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 16:52

You know, you actually hit upon like many, many things, I think, in the last like two minutes of you speaking. Like it's it's a lot of hard-learned lessons there, you know, like you going back and seeing all of the missed opportunities in the conversation. I'm like, hello, I'm a coach.

unknown 17:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:11

It is incredibly difficult to get better at coaching because it's very much like a podcast conversation, you know you as a host, is is to be able to see the threads coming your way and then to discern which ones are the ones to pick up versus the ones maybe not to. So it can be a little bit hard there. And yeah, it's the same thing. But at the same time, at least with coaching, it's very hard to improve if you don't at least do some of that. And then I think with podcasting too, I've had some of my interviews. So, you know, my solo podcast, mostly solo, I've had a couple of interviews and one of them with a mutual guest, right? Sandra Park.

SPEAKER_01 17:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

I see the same thing. I go back and edit my episodes. I'm like, God dang it. Like, why did how did I like ignore what she just said? And I don't feel good. But then but then I remember, you know, most people listening to this episode will probably never notice this. It's only gonna be me, most likely.

SPEAKER_02 18:07

Yep. 100%. And I I think one day my daughter and I were heading out, and she's like, Oh, this looks bad. This outfit looks bad. And I pulled her aside and I said, Ailani, I'm gonna tell you a secret. Most people are not paying attention, most people are focused on themselves, and they're dealing with their own like subconscious anxieties that they're processing and things, but they're worried about how they look. And she's like, People are gonna judge this outfit. And we went out and we came home at the end of the day. I was like, Did anyone say anything about your outfit? And she's like, No, and I said, there you go. It and I think that that's the same thing, you know. No one's watching a podcast going, he didn't pause there. Oh, he missed a nugget right there. There was a good thing. They're just listening to the the flow and the directions you're you're taking it. And I I think that that um the the the actionable items are the thing that for me with content, I try to figure out in anything I'm doing, what can what action item can I give someone? You know, I I am working on building my company, and I had a minor setback happen the last couple of days. Actually, not minor, like pretty substantial. And I was looking at that going, oh my goodness, how am I gonna process XYZ? But then at the same time, I was like, the same way that I got to where I'm at right now, one step at a time. Like, you know, the world is not ended. Like, what's the next mo step I can take? And I think that in content as well, you have to simply look at for me, do you know what I focus on? The next video. That's it. I right now I'm I'm recording this with you. I'm not thinking about what I gotta do later. I'm here and present in a really fun conversation. And I think that's the secret sauce for me is just the next video.

SPEAKER_00 19:59

100%. I think this goes back to a lot of stuff around goal setting. And I think with content creation, especially, people will set the goal on some outcome. You know, you have to have X number of leads or conversions or money earned or some sort of revenue. And it's difficult because to some degree that is not in your control. But what is in your control is focusing on the process. So to set the goal on the process itself, is it that next video? Or are you at least going to come up with five concept ideas, things that will really touch your ideal client or whatever your audience is? What can you do that is a hundred percent in your control so that you can feel good about the effort you put in instead of only focusing on what you don't have?

SPEAKER_02 20:46

I I'm excited that we're going here. I I feel like this has become one of the coolest conversations I've had on content creation because it, you know, it's like the I I love the dichotomy of control. I love stoicism, I love that, you know, type of not the broicism, but the stoicism like of the old Greek style. Uh, because you kind of the idea of like what can you control? And you know, one of the things that when you start an endeavor, whether it be raising a child, um getting some type of certification, you know, up-leveling your life, going to the gym, you are forced to look at certain things about yourself. And some of those are how do you handle stress? How do you engage with a longer-term plan? And and and so for me, um I found that when I'm creating content, it really comes down to what is in my control. I cannot control the views, I cannot control what's, you know, but I can control what I create. Yesterday I have one of my favorite videos I've ever made. I was walking to pick up a camera, uh, some microphones. I got a new little DJI mic that I can use to record when I'm out on the go because I got a new iPhone so that it's just easier to shoot. I used to carry around a big kit with nice cinema cameras, but I just realized it was a pain in the ass. I on my last flight I had like my big camera bag, and I'm like, you know, I want to be more mobile. I've got the little little simple DJI Osmo Pocket 3, but I also wanted to be able to, it's so much easier to pull out a phone at places than to pop out a camera. But I thought I was going to talk about all that in the video. I'm walking up the street, and then midway up the street, this security guard at this random shop in Vietnam looks at me and he's like, I am your father. And I was just like, what the absolute hell is happening right now? And it's like, you know, I'm a huge Star Wars fan. And I'm just like, what's going on? And then suddenly I realized I was wearing a shirt that said, I am your father. And so I was just like, and I was like, oh, dude, that was so weird. And I was like, yes, yes. Okay, cool. Star Wars line. And I went up, I got my thing, and I came back and I was like, Can you say that line again for me on camera? Can you just do that one more time? And he's like, What? What line? And I'm recording like that line, this, this. He's like, I'm your father. I was like, yes, that. And I made this silly little Star Wars video that was, it wasn't even about Star Wars. It was about the event situation that happened right there in the middle of the street. And I put some fun, silly graphics in there. I talked about my my machine, uh, the the mics I bought. And then I was like, you know what? Good stuff is everywhere. And like right there, I had this hook, this story, and it was fun and it was spontaneous, and it was something that was within my control. Now, will people like it? Man, I have no idea. But was it something that was authentic and fun in the moment? Yeah, it totally was.

SPEAKER_00 23:52

Has anyone ever told you you have the gift of gab? Like you're so engaging when you're telling a story. It's like really fun to listen to you.

SPEAKER_02 24:00

I appreciate that. I have been told that I have the gift of gab. I have to limit myself uh from going over and talking to my workers because like I'll go over to my team and start telling these really interesting stories. And I have a really amazing way of taking the story long and then pulling it back to a point. And they're like, holy crap, how did you go down that tangent and then pull it back to the point? I'm like, I have no idea. Yeah, I think it was something that I've done. But thank you for the flop for the comment. I feel appreciative of that.

SPEAKER_00 24:31

Yeah, some people, you know, they just have it. I guess maybe however you grew up or something in your background like has given you that talent, whereas it's taken me a long time to be able to pull something back or even just learn like basic storytelling structure. You seem to, you know, naturally have this affinity for it. But I think in the theme that we're exploring right now, where we're both talking about like what can you focus on that's within your control? I have to ask you, because you seem remarkably well adjusted, you know, for a content creator. Like most of the people I work with, there's a sharp difference between what you see of them online, and I'm talking people who have millions of followers, versus who they really are behind the scenes. So how did you come to this place of knowing to just focus on the next video?

SPEAKER_02 25:20

One of the things that I I was a children's teacher for many years. That's how I got my gift of gap. I taught kids for years and years and years and years. And I learned that to be an effective children's teacher, you have to be entertaining as hell. And you have to have fun and you have to be witty, and you gotta find those little moments. And there's nothing no one will roast you more online than a 10 or 11-year-old will in person. Like they will roast you just mercilessly. And I got really good at going back and forth with that. When I had my daughter, I felt this urgency, this fire to try to do what I could to make, I believe, do my part to make the world a little bit better place, a little bit kinder, a little bit more loving. And as a children's teacher, I was unabashedly myself. And I tried to use comedy and the way I am and who I am to try to help put people at ease. I'll tell you one secret. I fight every day crippling anxiety. I am on the edge of losing my cool and just wanting to break down and like let go and just like curl up in a ball and cry. But I don't find time for that because I have this mission inside me to try to inspire, to try to lighten, and to try to bring some positivity to the world. And I think it's me doing it for myself. Like it's the way that I keep going, it's the way that I can keep showing up every day. Yesterday, my daughter was kind of a jerk to her piano teacher, and she was just slouching and being a little, and I I looked at her in the middle of class and I was doing some work and I was like, Eilani, you gotta be better than that. And she's like, Well, I don't feel great. And then afterwards, she she was finishing up the lesson, she sat down and I looked at her and I said, I don't feel great every day. But I have you looking up to me, and I know that you need me to be strong. I have your mom looking at me, I have my whole team looking at me, and I have every single one of these people that watches my podcast that needs me to show up. And I think that for me, I feel this responsibility. And I don't know if everyone should have that, but that's just what I have. And I think that I had that because as a kids' teacher, as a children's teacher, I had all of these parents who entrusted me. And I found that I might have been the one voice in that kid's life that could steer them in the right direction. I have had so many people, because I've I'm old. I started teaching on and off English in 2001. I graduated college in 2001, and I moved to Asia and started teaching. And so I've had students that are adults now, and I have had people send me letters ages past saying you were the one person who helped me find my path. And it's like, and people that I at this point, and it sounds horrible, have forgotten. People that came and went and they said, Mr. Sean, I just want to tell you that what you said to me in that class made all the difference. When I started podcasting, I realized that I was still teaching. I am still that same guy in that same classroom. I just have the opportunity to reach more people. And I hope that that's what I can do. So am I the same person? Actually, 98% yes. Am I do I have stuff that I don't tell everyone or show everyone? Yeah, I'm not breaking down in tears every episode, but you know, I do have that anxiety and I I talk about it like, dude, straight up anxiety disorder, 100%. Deal with it all the time. But I work through it, and this is part of my therapy, I guess. It is maybe not the answer you were looking for.

SPEAKER_00 29:16

No, no, I don't think I was looking for any answer in particular, but I relate to a lot of what you've said. You know, it's the anxiety portion. Um we've seen this across the board, probably with a lot of our friends, like every one of our clients. It's it is a question of like how do you still do what you got to get done despite feeling anxiety like that to any varying level. And I think what's really beautiful in what you just shared is that you have this greater purpose with the birth of your daughter and wanting to make the world a better place. But then also having that context, like that history of being a teacher, I'm like, man, you are like perfectly situated to be a content creator because you come like out of the box already now because of your life experiences of just kind of being a natural fit for a content creator, like if you just choose to show up and take what's yours. I gotta say, I have the opposite experience, you know, as as someone who is autistic and also ADHD and culturally repressed, I would say. You know, Koreans, their attitude towards women and with a very conservative family, I've been told my entire life to stop talking so much. So now I'm finding it like an internal battle every day to show up online because it's the voice in my head that's like, stop talking so much. Why are you taking up so much space? You're like hogging the spotlight, like all of some version of that. And the other thing that I remember my dad telling me all the time is wipe that look off your face. So I was never allowed to express any type of emotion, which then leads to this, you know, on top of like you have the Asian trait of already being lower in facial expressivity, which has been proven, you know, versus Western cultures. But then you have people who are autistic also having a lower level of expressivity. So even in how we speak, there tends to be a more flatness, you know, like a more monotone, a lack of vocal variety. So for me, with the content creation, because of that burning desire within myself to share a message and to have impact, like impact you've had as a teacher, I want to have that on a larger scale. And it's interesting because you and I, we have some, I guess, shared background in teaching. I was a student teacher and I was a longtime tutor for like very many years. But yeah, I mean, you've had so much impact already with the students that you've taught. And I think I see content as my channel, like my chance to do that now as well.

SPEAKER_02 32:03

I I a hundred percent agree. And I it someone once asked me if you could do anything. Money was not an option. Yeah, not not an option, not a uh a problem. What would you do? And I would be like, teach, hands down. But I want to teach, you know, I would love to be doing those giant like workshops, like giant room where I walk in like, hey everyone, you know, up on the stage doing some stupid shit. And I I promise you that I will still be doing stupid shit um and saying stupid shit on stage. But getting out there and for me, like the greatest thing I can do is to help someone feel a little bit more alive today. And I think that that's where if I could impress I I'm shifting my company from spam, helping people create spam, to I'm trying to roll back into having fewer clients and focusing just on the clients that want to make an impact. Like that is my goal, is to really work with people. I know some people are like, oh well, you know, you gotta no, I want to be only working with people that can go out there and say, I want to make a difference. Because to me, that's powerful. That's that's where the secret sauce is at. And I know there's every type, and people can do content for whatever reasons they want, but I think that everyone has a story inside of themselves that is inspirational. And if you can figure out what it is that is inspirational about you, then and you can share that, you know. I I I think that's one of the things that I see with some of these younger YouTubers or streamers, and they get out there and they go for shock value. Instead of like, maybe you've got a story that's inspirational, but you just don't know how to tell it yet, or you don't know what is the inspirational part of your story. And I think that goes back to you know, our own finding our own individual unique hero's journey. Because I think that if if you know I could help anyone on their content journey, I would sit there and say, have you done your deep work? Have you asked the deep questions about yourself? Because that's the most important place to start.

SPEAKER_00 34:19

I do think that's an important place to start. I also think that it can be hard for you to see yourself accurately. And as someone who used to be a headshot photographer, I would literally see that all the time, you know? It's like I could give somebody objectively the most beautiful photos of them and they would hate them. And I think we're doing a version of that to ourselves all the time. So for instance, I have tons of crazy stories of my life that I could tell you. I'm sure you have them too, given like what little I know of you from your podcast. And yet for a lot of these things, it just never occurred to me that they were inspirational or even interesting because to me, they're just a part of my life. You know, it's it's like the background wallpaper.

SPEAKER_02 35:05

Right. I I I that's one of the things that someone I I first of all, I was fascinated a couple years ago by I I know this the show has kind of gone gone away, but the original early American Idol seasons, and when they had the interviews, and like I'm sure everyone lived for the great singing, but man, those auditions were something else. And what was special about them, that was wild to me, was that there were so many people who had such a like a low self-awareness of their absolute inability to carry a tone and to sing on beat and just generally to sing at all. And I mean, it sounds horrible, but like you watch some of those early seasons, you're like, dear God, you know? And like, like they're like, Oh, what is wow, what what is it? What was your inspiration there? And they're just like, Well, I they're like, I grow up singing every day, and you're like, wow, that's that's pretty tough. Why I'm not I'm not throwing any shade at that. Maybe I am, but uh, one of the things that I'm bringing that up for is that I do think that you're right on that. I think a lot of people can't see either what they're good at or what they're not, you know. I know what I'm not good at. I'm not good. This is one of the challenges I have with growing my company. I'm not great at sales because I can't bullshit people. I am the type of person where if I don't think I'm I tell people straight up, I tell them my prices, I'll say, you know what? If this is what you like, I'm a great fit for you. But I'm not gonna sit there and try to beat your door down to try to get you into my company. Like that's not who I am. And maybe it hurts me in the long run, but it's not something I'm great at. And I don't want to be necessarily good at that. I just want to work with people that are in affinity and like that we have this, this, this match. So I don't know. But I think that if you can be aware of that, it at least is a step in the right direction, which maybe I need to surprise surround myself by people who can do that. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 37:07

Hey, I'm all for leaning into your natural gifts. And if you don't like to do sales, then you know, you got to do it the way you got to do it, otherwise you come off really inauthentic. And then I think that's when sales starts to feel sleazy, is you're pushing yourself to do something you don't actually believe in. But man, that is a throwback to the American Idol days. I feel like I'm guessing that you and I are actually not too far apart in age because I graduated college two years after you did. So I remember the Kelly Clarkson, you know, season, right? The the very first season. And William Hung, right? You want to talk about it?

SPEAKER_02 37:47

William Hung was, I didn't want to throw his name out there, but yes, totally. It's William Hung, man. That guy was a phenomenon. So yeah, William Hung.

SPEAKER_00 37:55

Yeah. I don't know if you've kept up with these people, but I hear he's a comedian now. So I'm like, hey, it worked out for him.

SPEAKER_02 38:02

Good, right? I didn't know that. Yeah. I I gotta go look him up later, but that's wild. You know, and I think that at the end of the day, you know, I mean, on a on a on a different level, I think at the end of the day, our our path finds us. And again, it's about leaning in on that. Hey, coming back to the content creation side, I think that you're, you know, part of it is figuring out what your path is, you know, life path, your your message. But again, I think to me, the single most important thing is what is your message? What is your what is your story that you're telling? I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 38:38

I think that can be one place to start, but this is where my like life coachy background comes out is what I what I observe of all the teaching and guidance out there on content creation. And this is where like we can get into more of the nitty-gritty if you want. But you know how like you sign up for any content program and they're like, you gotta have like your niche and you gotta have your message and you gotta know who your audience is. And I'm like, yes, you really should know who your audience is, but if you don't have that, then at least start from someplace. And I think most guidance will try to start with what I call the packaging. So it's like, here's the format of the content you want to put out, and here's how many times you should be posting. And just from my personal style, I don't think any of that shit matters. Because if you do not find a way to make content that suits your personality, right? You talk about sustainability. It has to fit your personality. So if I if I were to sit here and say, Sean, you need to start making short form videos that all have three points each, like how Jefferson Fisher's format is. I don't know. I couldn't really see you doing that because it doesn't fit with what I know of your personality. So already you're not gonna do that. And I think that that's what is being pushed upon the population at large is here's like very static and rigid ways to make content, and here you go. And then 90, 99% of these people never do it.

SPEAKER_02 40:11

Yeah, I I love that. Yeah, right. If I had to sit there and follow, I've tried that. I have tried the videos that I've scripted. Uh, and I sit down, I'm like, hi, I'm here today to tell you about the three things that you do can do to get ahead of content. Uh, and and it just it doesn't sound right, you know. So I I hear you. And I think that that is so true. So, what do you think people should do to find their own way, their own niche and their own style with content creation? What are some of the things that they can practically do? Because I I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_00 40:47

Look, the way that I approach this is number one, you got to be some level of consumer of content yourself. It is incredibly hard to come on the scene when you don't really watch anything on Instagram or LinkedIn or TikTok or even YouTube. If you don't have some idea of how other people have done it, it's usually very hard. Now, you know, one in a million people, they don't give a shit like what everybody else is doing. And they're just like, I want to do this, and then they go off and do it. But that is not the person who's typically blocked by all the fears and the perception of judgment, you know, that may be coming their way. And I'm like, no, it's guaranteed to come your way. You just gotta learn to deal with that. So I think you have to go and see what all is out there, and then try and picture yourself to see one, what do you enjoy? And then ask yourself why. Because I think we're all very clear on what we enjoy and what we do not, but we usually don't know why on either front. And then two, if you are seriously thinking about making content, there's so many different forms it can come. You can be someone who really likes to yap. Maybe you're more of a verbal processor, and something like podcasting would be a better fit, or something that's really unscripted, unfiltered, you can just make YouTube videos. But I think this is where you need to have some level of self-awareness about you. Like, how do you normally show up with your friends and your family? The times when you feel the most free and like yourself, how much of that can we leverage towards content? And I think this is a reason why you have so many people like Gary V, who literally just has a content team following him around, filming video and then capturing all those magical sound bites that we then see like compiled into something, you know, a finished product. But most of us, we don't have the budget for that. So just from my view, you want to see what you naturally do and then test doing more of that.

SPEAKER_02 42:46

I love that. Because you're right. Like, I think what makes Gary V so special is the fact that he is constantly spitting that stuff out. It's just what he does all day, every day. And I you're right. I wish I had a team of 20 people to follow me around. I don't know if I could handle that. I might be saying some stuff that would get me in trouble. Um, because yeah, but at the same time, you know, it is interesting because he knows he knows his strengths and he knows his his uh his direction and he has got that down. You know, coming back out, it kind of a question to wrap it up. If someone is trying to figure out their path forward, what would you recommend for them to start with this week?

SPEAKER_00 43:29

Are we assuming they already know who their audience is or why they're doing any of this?

SPEAKER_02 43:33

I would say no.

SPEAKER_00 43:35

Okay. Then I would say those are the first two places to start. And uh part of me cringe at saying this because I already know this is not gonna sound sexy. And it's not something that's immediately easy to make actionable. But like I can I can give you steps, right, if you want to make this actionable. The number one crime I see in content is it's not specific enough. And it's not specific because. Because people don't know who the hell their audience is or who they're making this piece of content for. So they will say the most ridiculous off, like cockamame or just too vague bullshit and put it out there and then wonder why it doesn't get engagement. I'm like, because you didn't put your back into it, like you didn't really give this any effort. So I'm like, let's say you're a dating coach and you want to start building a presence online. So then the first thing I'm gonna ask you is, well, what are the most common complaints you get from your clients about why they can't get a date? And what's the difference between men versus women on the dating apps? If you can't answer that question in the first 30 seconds of me giving you that, you have homework to do. And that probably means you got to sit down with your clients and ask them, hey, what was the thing that you were thinking before I coached you? And then what did you learn because I coached you? What is the major before and after difference? So you have to be able to answer these questions. And if you can't do that, then already like you're gonna put out more vague general crap that AI gives you. And I already know what many of them are doing. They're trying to take a shortcut. It's like, what should I post about into ChatGPT or Claude? And then ChatGPT and Claude does not have those like really specific examples of what these clients are thinking or feeling. And at the end of the day, I think if somebody doesn't feel like you're somehow spookily like reading their mind, then you've probably missed the mark on your content. So know your audience and then ask yourself, why are you doing this? I'm not even saying that you can't do this for business purposes. Like the truth is we all have a living like that we gotta make. We have to have some source of income in this world. And if you truly want content to be it, then that's okay. But I also think that that cannot be the only reason you're making content because then you're probably not gonna last.

SPEAKER_02 46:01

Mm-hmm. 100%. I want to ask you this: where can people go to find out more about you and what you do?

SPEAKER_00 46:08

Two places. I would say if you're interested in checking out my own content, I'm more active on LinkedIn these days. This is how you and I met. Or check out my podcast. This is how you think.