Small Wins Matter | Mark Maziarz | Full Battery Media

I sat down with Mark Maziarz, a creative director with over two decades of experience building campaigns for some of the biggest youth brands in the world, and what he shared completely reframed how I think about building something that lasts. 

We got into why consistency isn't just a buzzword - it's literally the only thing standing between you and the thing you're trying to build. Mark broke down how the biggest entertainment brands and the smallest independent creators are actually doing the same thing: building in flight, figuring it out as they go, and just refusing to stop. Mark also walked me through how he went from writing TV commercials for Coca-Cola to running his own publishing company, Neon Nightlight, and why he believes independent creators should be thinking about their full ecosystem - the merch, the newsletter, the world they're building, way earlier than most people do. If you've been sitting on an idea or feeling like your numbers aren't where they should be, this conversation is going to hit different.

What's one piece of content, a post, a video, a story, that you've been sitting on because you're afraid it's not good enough yet, and what would it take for you to finally put it out there?

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that like, you know, you hear the the formative views of somebody like Mr. Beast and how long he was chipping away at it with like a zero audience and that man just kept cranking out those videos. And it's one of those things that's just like, okay, well imagine if you borrowed that but you put that towards, you know, creating a killer portfolio of advertising work, or you did that much consistency, but you were making headway on X amount of screenplays or, you know, or stories that you might have. It really, you know, I think it is that is something you can share across every discipline, is that that consistency of showing up and just doing it, you know, just because there's no other way, like not doing it, we know where that goes, right? Just like then it's then it's done, you know. The only the only unknown is, you know, if we just keep pushing through, what's it, what's gonna be, you know, what's gonna come of this thing, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

Welcome everybody back to the Full Battery Media Podcast. I'm your host, Sean Trace, and I've got an awesome guest with me today, which you like to tell people who you are and a little bit about what you do.

SPEAKER_00 1:16

Yeah, my name is Mark Maziars. Um, I've spent uh over two decades in creative advertising and production uh launching campaigns for youth brands in a lot of different categories from uh soda to QSR to gaming to sports. Um, and more recently I've been working directly with brands and gaming and entertainment studios. Um and when I'm not doing that, I also operate a small publishing company called Neon Nightlight, where I release my own books and graphic novels and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

That's awesome. All of that is awesome, but especially the last part, man. Um how did you get into this whole career? Both of your two different I want to I want to ask about both. How did you get into creative direction and how did you get into making your own graphic novels? Because that's that's rap.

SPEAKER_00 2:03

Yeah, well, I was so I I was uh grew up in the Midwest, um, you know, kind of grew up in the heyday of of you know just 80s and 90s awesome monoculture where you know every every sort of world was something you wanted to dive into. And so, you know, I um I kind of went to um undergrad, not really knowing what I wanted to do. I studied journalism and um after getting out, um started to learn from some friends who had gotten through journalism programs that uh, you know, hey, they were getting into advertising and and um, you know, for me, I was I hadn't really, besides like, you know, the Nike commercials and the things you see on the Super Bowl, I wasn't exposed to that that much of it except for the stuff I was seeing on TV or whatever. But, you know, um on the sort of recommendation of a lot of friends being like, hey, if you wanna, if you wanna do something outside of the Midwest that's creative, maybe go to you know a portfolio school. So I found myself at VCU's brand center, um, going through a portfolio school there where I uh quickly learned kind of trial by fire. It's a small, small group there, but they put you through the paces and you kind of learn how to do this and how to kind of communicate. And of course, you know, through the course of my career, um, you know, I've gotten to see, you know, social media become a thing, digital media become sort of the place where everything lives. And so, you know, it's been an interesting journey to go from predominantly writing TV commercials for Coca-Cola and, you know, mobile phone companies to now working with, you know, creators who could be from anywhere. And, you know, they're they're kind of bringing their own talents to the table. And so um, it's been it's been interesting in that regard. It's been an interesting cross-section of the history of advertising to be a part of.

SPEAKER_01 4:01

Uh, that's awesome, man, because I I I sit there and I think about um how people find this path. And it's all it's never two stories are never the same, you know. I and and why I bring that up is because um everyone has these different paths into it that brings a little bit of flavor, you know, and so uh you you've built campaigns around massive franchises, but like I wanted to ask you this because you're also doing your own thing as well, you know. You've got your own creative, you know, niche that you work on, but what can independent creators learn from big entertainment brands and how they build anticipation and hype? Like, how can smaller creators get some of that same, the same creative juice and stuff going, man?

SPEAKER_00 4:48

Yeah, I mean, I think because that's certainly how I kind of like got my own stuff going was being able to work, as you said, get you know, through collaborations between, you know, brands and entertainment franchises, you know, working directly with the filmmakers of a big, you know, Warner Brothers release, um, just to like create some type of synergy with a burger moment. But, you know, through that, really getting to see how their process works and how they, you know, are developing the script and taking that all the way to that that final sort of big cultural moment. We're all doing the same kind of, we're all kind of doing the same thing, right? And so the one thing that's interesting, no matter the scale of your project, everybody's kind of building in flight. Everybody's kind of building as they go. So I think it's kind of always um, it's always one of those um, you know, things that you might think, oh, well, because they have this big budget and they have all these people working on it, they know exactly where they're going, they know exactly what they're doing. But a lot of it is like trial and error. Just get down, let's roll up our sleeves and start, you know, making the thing that we're kind of hoping to make. I think that that's that's kind of the thing that I've gleaned from anything, is just like you gotta just start from somewhere. You gotta just start, get it down, get an audience, even if it's, you know, a small one, and just keep growing and keep keep working at it and keep building it, you know? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:16

I I think that people don't people underestimate the amount of consistency. I'm trying to say it in a positive way, because we always have these terms like war of attrition, the slogging through, you know, it's just consistency. I think that the the people like to like dramatic like, I don't know, uh, over make it over dramatic when they're talking about the amount of work that's needed. But it's a lot of work and it's a lot of consistency. You have to keep showing up uh time after time after time.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that like, you know, you hear the the formative years of somebody like Mr. Beast and how long he was chipping away at it with like a zero audience, and that man just kept cranking out those videos. And it's one of those things that's just like, okay, well, imagine if you borrowed that, but you put that towards, you know, creating a killer portfolio of advertising work, or you did that much consistency, but you were making headway on X amount of screenplays or, you know, or stories that you might have. It really, you know, I think it is that is something you can share across every discipline, is that that consistency of showing up and just doing it, you know, just because there's no other way, like not doing it, we know where that goes, right? Just like then it's then it's done, you know. The only, the only unknown is, you know, if we just keep pushing through, what's it, what's gonna be, you know, what's gonna come of this thing, you know?

SPEAKER_01 7:44

Yeah, 100%. 100%. Because you don't know, but you know, you do know what's gonna happen if you don't show up. You do know what's gonna happen if you're not putting it out there, you know, and I think that's one of the things that you find people have all this fear about not uh not succeeding. But you know what? You're guaranteed to not succeed if you don't put anything out there, you know, and there are I I love this word the doldrums. You ever know that hear that word? The doldrums is like the the for people who are listening that don't know, it's like when you're sailing across the Pacific, like back in the day, they would hit in the Pacific Ocean is frigging huge, like the Southern Pacific Ocean, like these sailors would be there, and yeah, you there's this one place in the South Pacific that is like it's more isolated from people than you are on the moon, you know? And it's like it's super isolated. And so one of the cool the while, maybe that's not right, but it's really isolated. But like you're you're you're getting to this point in the ocean when the wind stops and you're just sitting there and you can't move back in the day of of the sail, uh, you know, sailing by sails, you'd be stuck. And you just at that point you're like, what do you do? And that's the point that many people quit. That's the that many people, you know, say, I'm done, I nothing's happening. But that's the point that you have to keep going because something good's gonna come if you do.

SPEAKER_00 9:07

Yeah, and I always I almost kind of wonder in this sort of age where like you can get the instant gratification of even if it's like nine people liking your liking what you're doing, you know, you can get at least nine of those hearts. I wonder if like if that reward system helps keep people going, or if it's it's one of those things where it's like, if I don't get past this X amount that I have designated as my idea of what success is, then I'm gonna just stop doing this altogether. Like, I don't know if it's like if that entry-level reward system helps keep more creators going, or if it, you know, has more of a recoil that's that is a hindrance in some ways. Because, you know, back in the day before social, like, yeah, you just keep writing your screenplay or your your script or whatever, and you you wouldn't know. You wouldn't know if it's if you're making headway on on your craft or not, really. You know, you had a very tight audience of like maybe your friends, but now it's like you got you got something. You got a few people who are who are looking at you. Um, you know, and it's like, I feel like that's not nothing.

SPEAKER_01 10:17

Right. I think that's also a really important point to to like focus on is that we have this idea that unless you're doing Mr. Beast numbers, you're not making an impact. You know, in like, you know, like unless I'm unless I'm that, I'm I'm you know, not crushing it. And people will seek out those numbers by compromising themselves. You know, it's like, what can I do? Let's get someone to kick you in the nuts. Like I could have I do a YouTube channel with my daughter. I could have her kick me in the nuts at the beginning of every episode, you know, and I'm sure our views would go up. But is that what I really want to be doing when we're focused on STEM and learning and science? You know, I mean, right, it may be an episode where we're talking about velocity, you know, that would actually work, but I still probably don't want to go there, you know. Um No, I'm with you. Yeah, totally. And so I think that people have to figure out what's your niche, and then, you know, if we get the other day, our videos took a hit. And I don't know what's up with YouTube's algorithm. We were doing great numbers about a year and a half, two years ago, you know, 10,000 views per reel. And then suddenly we're down to like a hundred. And I was just like, what's going on here? We changed our format a tiny bit, but it's still phenomenal. We're talking to like NASA scientists about like stuff, we're getting people, we're interviewing all these YouTubers that are like doing animal videos and they're showing us all these animals, which is awesome. Like, yeah, you know, and and yet the numbers were down, and I just had to sit there and go, keep it up, keep going, keep creating. Because and like we had 200 people watch this last video, and I was like, there were 200 kids that watch that that maybe maybe one of those is gonna be like, you know what? I want to become an ASA scientist, and maybe that kid or or something else, and he's gonna be the kid who cures some major disease because he watched our video. You don't know the impact you're gonna have, and you have to keep going.

SPEAKER_00 12:15

Why that is such an important thing, um is just almost like I know it's it's definitely on on some of the projects that I've had where it's just like, is this worth going through the motions? Like I most recently just released a a book called Welcome to the Hippocampus. It's a it's a storybook and memory journal for kids, you know, and basically it's it's got a little sort of Dr. Seuss kind of rhyming sort of thing that happens, but it's guiding you through these different parts of the brain, and the kids are allowed to journal in those sort of those sort of open spaces in the book. And that's and so by the way. Thank you. And it was really fun, and like, you know, I it wasn't my first book that I had released, so I I understand how to go direct to consumer. I know how to, you know, get it on digital distributors and get it out into the world and stuff like that. But it is just sort of going through the motions of that, you know, like, okay, I have to not only build this thing to its completion, but then I have to promote it, I have to get an audience behind it, I have to set up the channels for distribution and all that stuff. But then you start picturing, if you can picture your audience, your dream audience of like that, that parent and kid moment where they're sitting down with that book or watching one of your videos, and you'd be like, this is why, even though that's not a quantity story, like those quality sort of views and experiences. I mean, I think it definitely helps when you know it's like you're you're doing something that's for kids or something like that. That definitely kind of helps fill the bucket. But um, I do think even when and when working in advertising and stuff like that, I'm like, you know, this idea isn't going to be for everybody, but the people that it's gonna be for, they're gonna love you that it wasn't for everybody, you know? They're gonna love the choices that you made to make it that small, intimate thing, you know. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 14:13

And I because I think that here's one thing that I think people confuse. Um a lot of creators confuse content with creative direction and with mission and purpose, you know, and it's like they're just making stuff. And I mean, no problem about that. I know there was a thing that came out recently where one of these streamers was picking, it's like a thing right now with streamers picking fights with UFC fighters, which is the most ridiculous crap I've seen on the planet. Like, like if you're gonna pick a fight, and it's it's not just one situation, it's like four or five of them. And like what I think they're doing is like I know that they're going for the shock value and they're going for the um, it's kind of that hook to pull people in, but the reality is, is it's like there's not really a creative, I mean, maybe there is a creative direction, but I feel like you have to define the difference about like just making content that spams and gets numbers in something that has what is the story you're trying to tell? If those guys are trying to tell the story of like, here I am, undermatched David versus Goliath story, all right. But if you're just being a punk that people want to see get beat up, yeah, well, you you know, I don't know if that's helping with any way, anything in any way, you know?

SPEAKER_00 15:34

You do kind of see some things out in the world and you're like, so where does this go? I understand what this is right now, yeah. And kudos, because you know, I'm watching and I'm I'm totally engaged in this, but like, what is the next, what is the next evolution of this sort of you know, content or whatever? And some people might have a vision for that, other people I think are just flying by the seat of their pants. Right.

SPEAKER_01 15:58

Do you think how do you think people can find their creative vision? Then maybe that's the better question to ask. Maybe someone's sitting there going, I do feel like I'm being kind of spammy right now and I'm all over the place. How can people sit there and figure out what it is that is their creative voice?

SPEAKER_00 16:15

Yeah, I mean, that's a good question. And something that like, I mean, you can go through the paces of like trying out different things. I mean, we're an ex this is an experimenter's paradise, right? You can you can try these things out. Um, I mean, if you're if you're resilient enough to have some things not pan out to be, you know, the biggest hit of your, you know, career as a creator, I think that's the only way. I mean, it's just like, you know, doing the job and deciding, do you love it? I mean, yeah, you know, there are there are definitely people that I've talked to who've like entered into something where they like they got a lot of attention for it, but they were like reviewing books. And they're like, honestly, I'm I'm I guess I'm good at reviewing books, but I don't love reading this much. And I'm like, okay, fair. Maybe that wasn't really thought all the way through as to what you wanna, you know, how you want to put out. But I do think it's like you have control over when you kind of pull the ripcord and decide whether, you know, to bail on it or not. So I think that's the probably the best way is just to hang out. And I think it's like, I guess I kind of call it like hanging out in the places that you want to be. Like, so if you are, you know, I wanted to start making a sort of an episodic uh comic. And, you know, uh so I started, you know, showing I started putting something up on Global Comics. It was like kind of a monthly um uh episodic story. But on top of that, like went on those Reddit threads where those sort of similar like-minded people were, and like I started to join other social groups and stuff like that. So it's I think it's like beyond sort of like just doing the work of whatever that creator is trying to discover it. It's like discover if these are your people too, you know, because I think that kind of, you know, not just you know, online, but just in in work life, that's one thing I found is like, you know, 50% of it is do I love the work? The other 50% is like, do I love the people that I, you know, am I gonna show up with? Do I love, you know, the audience that's like encouraging me? Is it all positive and do I feel good after I've been doing this for a while? So um I don't know. That's where I would start, probably.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

I think so. And I think I love the, you know, do you enjoy showing up every day to create what you're creating? And do you enjoy the feedback that you're getting? Because I think that, you know, uh when you look at creators' brands, um, you have to look at the the signals whether they're thinking long-term versus just chasing engagement. Because I mean, I think that if you're thinking long term and you really are thinking about what does it look like if I if you're if your whole Brad is built around being running up and punking UFC fighters and getting the crap smacked out of you, I don't know how that grows. You know, I don't know where you go with that, besides getting into boxing and and you know, and trying to be parents.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

Yeah, I'm like trying to workshop this, and like we can figure this out.

SPEAKER_01 19:19

Right? I mean, there's some there might be, but you have to sit there and think about like what is the direction you want to go. Because for me, like for Eilani's little world, you know, my daughter's YouTube channel, which is the one of the ones I was referencing, and we're kind of in this transition period. It used to be very kid formatted, but like what we've been shifting into is more like her doing kind of mini um mini kids podcasts that we break into sections because there's not a lot of podcasts for kids where they talk about to scientists and cool people about this stuff, and it's an evolution. Yeah, and we're seeing where it goes, but like we're trying to look at the long-term stuff of what is something that she's gonna enjoy doing as she gets older, and you know, it it's just this question mark. And does she enjoy it? Is this something that you she actually wants to do? But she told me she's like, dude, I really love these conversations, and I'm like, cool, then we keep doing it. But she's like, I don't really like doing the things where I'm like acting like I'm running or jumping or stuff like that. And I was like, then we stop that because there has to be this love of it. So I want to ask you like, how do you tell if someone's thinking long-term or just chasing and great engagement? And which one is more important? Is chasing engagement a core thing that everyone should be doing, or should we be having some type of longer vision? Because I don't know, man.

SPEAKER_00 20:39

I don't I don't think there is one way to do it as far as like should them should it be long-term or short term? I mean, obviously, I a lot of times I think of this stuff in in in entertainment terms more than I do of it being like news and a trusted voice that you would be able to follow for long-term periods of time. In entertainment standpoints, obviously we've seen short films that have been incredible that shouldn't have ever been like episodic, check in on this, you know, weekly for years. So I think short form blasts of like, you know, you know, inspiration that can be like maybe just like a short thing. It's like that's pop culture, you know. That's like that, that are the those are these moments that we go through. And like, are they disposable? Yeah, to a degree, but they're memories that we've kind of that we'll etch into like, you know, our fabric of pop culture history, you know. Um, so I don't think that there's anything wrong with shooting for something that's more short term. Um, but I do think that like the longer term things, there's such an opportunity. I mean, like, this is like what you were just describing with your daughter and her like future audience is like, you know, we're gonna now start to see people sort of have generational relationships with. With the talent that they look up to, not just like, oh yeah, I loved them as a child star, and then like they disappeared to go to like college or something like that, and then they reappeared as like a cool adult star. It's like, I mean, not only is it not just entertainment, but it's just like you all these people that they're now seeing that they're their age, they can now move on to the next chapter, which would maybe be podcasts, or maybe check out their Substack, or you know, they start to follow a deeper sort of story with them as these, you know, creators grow up. I think that's so interesting, you know? And like, I think we've just barely started to see how that's gonna net out, you know?

SPEAKER_01 22:38

I 100% agree. And I think that like, I think that you're seeing some of that creator vibe growth also translating over to brands. I I work with some small wineries, and I I have a Barrels and Roots podcast, which is a wine podcast. And one of the nice side effects of that was that I started getting some more wine clients, you know, and wineries that were smaller mama places, right? But the thing was interesting is that they had been trying to go the traditional media route, filming. Here's a picture of our wine bottle, here's a picture of our new vintage. Right. And I said, why don't you tell the story of the people who make the wine? Why don't you make this centered, your marketing centered on the winemakers, like the people behind it, because that's like generational. That's the story that people can relate to. And when they started doing that, people started getting more engagement, more connectivity with like the people drinking their wine. And like, well, you know, I love this wine, but now I'm not just drinking this wine, I'm supporting Tom Johnson because he made it, you know? Yeah, and so it's this humanity of it.

SPEAKER_00 23:44

Yeah. It's yeah, it's definitely important to like still have that sort of human, you know. And it doesn't always have to be necessarily like narrative storytelling, but no, that connection to a feeling, you know. It's it's a that's what we're trying to always sell as a feeling, you know. We're trying to make people feel something. And like I I still think I I know we've got a lot of shiny new tools that can make you feel something. But it's not hu but it's not a human feeling, you know? Right. And certainly we'll get there, but you need somebody guiding that because it's just like you you need someone sort of stewarding that that part of it, you know? You need that sort of like that veter of like, hey, this feeling not only is more important than the other feelings in this moment, but it's the feeling that's gonna make people like love you, you know, and so I think that's you know I think that's kind of what we're still gunning for.

SPEAKER_01 24:47

I agree. I I think, you know, and it's interesting because one of the things too is I think that especially in in gaming and entertainment, you know, community is everything. You you know, it's like you are building community. And and you know, and I I think that big studios have understood this all for a while, that community building um is a core part of building out this, your your your marketing and your your brand building, but like I think that sometimes, you know, creators can miss that, you know, that like there is you have to find that community. How can creatives of all types tap into community as something that they're really, you know, is a core part of their growth and brand?

SPEAKER_00 25:34

You it your community gets strong by uh how vulnerable you'll you'll allow yourself to be, I think, or at least maybe that your connection to that community is the you'll be closer if you put more of yourself out there. Um and that's the good, the bad, and the ugly, I think. And I think that that's one thing that I've found even personally when I've been sharing, like, you know, a creative journey that I'm going on or something that I'm trying to. A lot of times when you share a failure, I mean, you're gonna do number, you're gonna get more response and sort of buy in to the fact that you showed, uh, I failed, or I was vulnerable in this moment, or I, hey, I pitched this book. And and um, you know, it's funny, like I I had a social post teasing my new book that was uh it was a rejection letter from a publisher from like 10 years earlier. And it was, and honestly, the reason why I shared it was because the rejection was super positive. It was like the most kind-hearted, like leading with love, sort of keep on going message ever. And so I was like, you know what? I'm experiencing like this awesome thing happening with the book now. This is then and now will be great. And I'll be damned if it didn't get like way more buy-in from my community because I was putting more of my sort of like self out there and some of my failures and some of the times when I didn't quite hit it out of the park. And I think that that's I think that that is infectious whenever you're in a group. The more you can put yourself out there, the more people are drawn to you. But I think, you know, it also just like you're gonna just feel so much more rewarded if you're like putting more of yourself into it. So I think a lot of times people will try to join a new community, whether it be on Reddit or with a writing group or you know, something on Substack, and they'll really want to put their best foot forward and they'll really want to show look, I've got this all figured out. I I have the story I want to tell. I it's all perfectly mapped out. Why are you here then? You're here because you need something from that community. So it's like, so really it is just about like share where you're at with people, you know, share, you know, your current state. And my gosh, I I can't tell you how many times, even I mean, that I think that even goes at a traditional work environment, too. Like if you can be a little bit more, I mean, it's not like you have to be open book McGee, but I think if you can be a little bit more of like it's a trust building thing that I think helps across the board. But certainly if you're if you're trying to get the most out of a out of a new group that maybe shares your passion, I think that's a great way to do it. Because then you get all these people in like, I feel the exact same way. I just have never brought it up, you know. Um so that has worked for me for sure.

SPEAKER_01 28:37

Yeah. And one of the things too is I think that when you are that community is so important to build. And to me, like operating in a vacuum is really hard. And it's really hard to keep things going if you're trying to like sit there and throw, throw something at the wall every day and see if it sticks, and then like you know, but not getting the feedback of whether, hey man, I've been also doing that too. And I can tell you that, you know, at you know, a certain amount of time it was something will stick. So just keep it up because you know, you have to move from just creating something to building a world people want to live inside, you know, and I think that you are whether it's a book about the hippocampus, was it, you know, you know, and uh to or it's making you know kids content that talks to kids about like the coolness of STEM, you have to find a way to create and to put yourself out there because you know, it it you have to be vulnerable, like and building a world. I mean, think about that. I I go back to everyone wants to talk about creators now or Mr. Beast, but like one of my favorite people that I would classify as a creator, just not in a traditional sense, or that we're defining it now, but maybe in a traditional sense would be a better way to say it. But Tolkien, you know, if you go back to the world of Tolkien, Tolkien created language, dude, he created Elvish, the Elvish language first. First, and then he said, Hey, let's create a world that this language can live in. And it's just like, yeah, holy crap, man. You know, that's the way to do it.

SPEAKER_00 30:20

Totally. I mean, it's it's that is totally the way to do it. It's like the perfect example of like, if you if you build, if you just keep building in a in a sandbox that you love, you're never gonna be bored of it, you know. And then more and more people you can invite to come in because you've just you've created this sort of thing that just is endlessly interesting to you. I mean, I think that like, you know, I think going back to your thing about like going for more views or whatever, I I one thing that is kind of interesting that I feel like maybe a lot of creators don't really think about it's just early on thinking about how your ecosystem can be bigger than whatever that channel is. You know, it's like, what is your and maybe this is like the ad brand guy and me coming out, but it's like, no, from like day one, you've got, you know, if you've got an audience, like you should be thinking what your t-shirt looks like. You should be thinking about like what, you know, it's what your news and what whatever the modern version of a newsletter is like, but like that more steady drum beat. Like build out your world way sooner. You know, if you're into this and you're like, it's like, cause, you know, I know that like as people start to get into their channel, they they have to keep up with the the pace, right? But like if you're if you're kind of building a lot of that infrastructure at the beginning, I think it can really kind of solidify you as like a brand from the jump a lot more, you know. But maybe that's not what people are looking for.

SPEAKER_01 31:52

I'm not sure. I don't know, but I think that that you I love it. I think that if you're living in the world and the ecosystem that you're creating, and like I made T I made t-shirts and hats for my company, and I made hats for some of my brands because I was like, and people are like, well, why? And I said, because I want to live it. Like, think about it this way, right? Every day I would be going out and looking at my hat wall and getting around to go on a sunny day, and I'm like, what hat should I wear? What team do I want to? And I was like, you know, I love sports, but I don't necessarily want to be repping these guys everywhere. Like, they're not my life, but when I wear my my company hat, man, I feel pride in that. I feel something you know when I wear one of my podcast brands. I'm like, see this? This is barrels and roots, man. This is like, this is what I'm all about. And if you can live in that and be proud of it, you know, and it's an amazing thing, you know.

SPEAKER_00 32:46

And there's no, I mean, honestly, it's like there's no easier time to be able to do this. Like as far as like the things that you can, you know, direct, print directly, the things that you can, you know, release directly without, you know, a ton of like, I mean, yeah, you gotta pay up, pay some money to have something on a digital music platform or on a, you know, you know, on a publishing site, but it's possible. It's possible for anybody to do that and have, you know, have their own brand or their own like sort of identity carved out. And I think that that's sort of like, you know, as we kind of move more and more into like, especially creative professionals, having to really say, hey, my taste level is what's separating me from the rest of the pack, um, beyond any type of skill-based stuff, really that's going to be your embodiment. It's like everything you do inside and outside of your work life, you know, you can kind of bring to life as an identity now, you know? And so I think that's I think it's a good time if you're an independent creative creator to take advantage of that stuff.

SPEAKER_01 33:53

I think so. And I think that that's the thing too, that, you know, there is so much at your disposal to create. And I mean, and I'm not talking, I'm talking just traditional tools, you know, like there are so much cool stuff out there. And I think that if you can one of the things that I I'm I'm not a huge fan of AI spam, but what I do think is that there are tools out there that can uh assist you in doing more, in getting more done, you know, and more creative because it's like it used to be hard to, you know, I I I'm a huge fan of like uh I love Canva because I can do, you know, graphic design now for myself that I would have been really, really hard to do ages ago. And templates are an awesome thing. And I think that one of the things that I love to do is like for a long time I was doing this alone. And now I've been trying to tap into teams, and even if it's small teams, you know, getting people and that's it doesn't always have to be people that work for you, networking with people, like get a creator group that you're part of that you can because big agencies have known this for a long time, that a creative system is more powerful than trying to figure out everything on your own. And I think that finding finding your tribe is a really important thing. And you know, and I think that one of the things I would challenge people to do is um, you know, some of these tools are really great, but one of the things that I notice when I use like AI is that it's kind of an echo box. Like a lot of these AI tools would be like, this looks great. You're doing the right thing. When some of the creator friends that I've had, I'll show them something and they'll be like, dude, that's not good enough. I believe you can do better. And I'm like, you know what? I can. And I I think that's really important to find that that network to bounce ideas off of because I think they're gonna help you in the long term.

SPEAKER_00 35:53

I think so too. And I think it's just like, you know, that's also not not only just like in the in the soft ways that it'll help, but like, you know, everybody is building their kind of future, whatever their future is. They're built like through those relationships, that will dictate, you know, what your future looks like, who who your collaborators will be. And like, you never know where you're gonna meet those people. And, you know, so that's I I think that as far as that's one thing that an an AI audience can't deliver on ever. You might might be able to give you ways to punch something up or give you alternate ways to to answer a brief. But as far as having the people that you want to, you know, kind of help build whatever future thing you want to film, you know, you need some people. You need some, yeah, I don't know, doing it alone is is um it's a drag.

SPEAKER_01 36:46

It's it's not fun, you know, at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_02 36:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:50

I I want to ask you this too, because you've worked on like bold personality-driven campaigns as well, all types, you know, but like how does a person find their voice without copying what's already trending? Because I think that's something that we see a lot of these days is people, everyone, especially on LinkedIn, my God, LinkedIn influencers crack me up the most because they'll literally just be like, well, that's a nice post copy, and they paste it back. But how can you find your own unique voice, you know, in a time where everyone's copying everything?

SPEAKER_00 37:20

Yeah. I mean, well, I guess first as you're doing it, copy. Because it's like you've got to get started somewhere, right? And so it's like, it's it, you know, I I think that like as far as like toiling over like how do I find my voice and how can I really own that thing. Uh to me, it it you you're changing it so much from brand to brand that you work on. And and that's kind of the fun of this, is like you can be this kind of funny voice on this, you know, beer brand, but you can be this really serious, like, you know, tap into your nerdy mythic side on this gaming, you know, account that you have, you know, and it's like a way to exercise different parts of your brain. Um, so I think it's like for me, it's not like honing a necessarily a voice. It's like I specifically talk this way, and so too shall every piece of creative that I make, because it's just not the way that the business works anymore with as many stakeholders as or are in brand voices and stuff like that. But I think being a really good mimic, I think is really a really good thing to practice, is to like learn, you know, the way that, you know, different, you know, celeb talk, the way that different, you know, politicians talk, journalists talk, you know, brands talk. I think it really is like just starting to understand like kind of the how much it affects, I think is a good exercise. Like I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna like learn as much as I can about liquid death and see from all these titch touch points how they talk. And maybe I'll try to make some stuff on the side that that that kind of sounds like that. Great. Now I've mastered a way of copying. And then the other thing is actually I I think a lot easier. Like if you were, if you're if you have a new brand, new brand, one of your wine brands comes out with a brand new brand, looking for a whole new identity, like that's when you kind of can take all of the things that you've been kind of copying from and being like, yeah, but it didn't do this. And you can kind of bring those into something that's kind of unique and stuff like that. So it's never like wasted to copy things that are that are sort of out there as you're trying to figure out how to bring unique things to the way you're telling brand stories and stuff like that. I mean you know, it's it's um it's always fun. But I, you know, it you know, I I think that one thing that's been kind of interesting is that like not only is it like, you know, back in the day it was like television commercials, radio commercials, these are the ways where we really get to feel the voice of a creative. But now it's like, hey, no, I'm actually doing this through, you know, an influencer on their channel where it's not about anything I it's about them through and through and I'm working with them or whatever. And so it's like, you know, the art of copying I think becomes part of the gig, you know?

SPEAKER_01 40:31

And it's interesting too because how do you take something and make it your own? And like that's one of the chin things that I was slamming on LinkedIn because they don't make it their own. They literally just copy paste, and that's not the art of copying. The art of imitation, the art of imitation is taking something and making it uniquely yours. Like, and this you could see in traditional artwork. Like, I remember watching all these art history, like an art history class in university, and someone would paint something, is you're all painting the same picture, but how do you make it yours? You know, like if you were to take Van Gogh and Picasso and you know, Rembrandt and show them the exact same scene, they might they're gonna have a similar vibe, but they'll each have their own unique way of doing it. And I think that's kind of the art of copying is like to take something and then to make it your unique flair, you know, is it um, you know, like I was talking to my team about my daughter's YouTube channel, like her stuff is educational, like it's always like, you know, from the very beginning, we looked at the toy craze and we're like, you know, a kid's channel and everyone was doing toys this, toys that. And I was like, I don't want to be doing toys because what happens when she's 13 or 14 and like, hey guys, I'm here to talk to you about the newest toy. It's like it, you know, it doesn't go well, it doesn't work anymore, you know. So we had to make it our own, even though we were looking at what was being done, we said, well, how can we shift this to be our brand, you know?

SPEAKER_00 42:05

There's this fiction writer that I really like, George Saunders, and he's got a new book out. So he's been doing a lot of press on it and stuff like that. And he was saying, you know, a lot of the a lot of the role of myself as a writer, once I have the story that I want to tell. And I think that where it kind of applies to advertising is there's there's always a brief. There's always sort of like a framework of what we need to kind of say at the end of the day. George Saunders was like, basically, it once I have that map of this story I want to tell, it's really my job to make as many parts of that map glow as possible. And I was like, I kind of know what you're talking about. Like making like, and and it's the aggregate of all those glows that'll give you this, what the identity is, but you might not want this part of it to glow. You might just want this to be a dim part, and you might want and and I thought about like talking about it being illuminated things was really interesting in thinking about it about storytelling in a new way. Is like, yes, there is necessary storytelling. It can le live quietly, but the things that you want to glow, you want that as bright and huge as possible, you know? And so, like, really, you know, you kind of as a you know, a creative thinker or a creative director, you're really trying to make as many of those sort of spots on the map glow in the places that they are at any given time.

SPEAKER_01 43:33

I love that. Well, and I love it too, because it's like one of the things too is like that idea of like all of these touch points, like how can you illuminate something? And sometimes one of the things that I was thinking about too is there's a lot of safe content out there. But like, what makes something feel a little bit dangerous in a good way, you know? And is that something people should be trying to aim towards? Or is it important to stay safe and within this this You know, nine to five of content.

SPEAKER_00 44:04

Yeah. I mean, you know, there used to be better, I think, better numbers on like the, oh, if it's controversial, you know, the, you know, there were sort of these trusted sort of like, oh, you're gonna get such a lift because it's gonna be on the today show. They're gonna talk about on the today show. They're gonna, you know, they're gonna, these more traditional, sort of older school media outlets, like they controversy would just get you so much, you know, um, you know, unpaid media impressions. You know, you'd just be getting tons of them, you know, you make a lot of noise. We used to do that with a lot of brands where it's like, we know that there's gonna be controversy and this will be polarizing, but you know, the shareability of this will be worth it. And, you know, I think that there's still, you know, people are still going to like slow down at the car crash, you know? And so I think that like there's there is um, you know, I I think that though there are other things, I mean, beauty can make somebody stop in their tracks, you know, something really very quick and very I can't be long funny, but like, you know, a a quick moment of physical comedy can make somebody stop in their tracks. So, you know, it's like you're just really trying to get that moment of pause, you know, to make people stop, you know, and I think that's become harder because I think that's the safe content, you know, really can look pretty professional and nice now. You know, it's safe, but it's also like it almost is an indicator of like the next 20 are gonna be like this. So give it a long scroll through because this is all just like gonna be the same. But you know, so I think that like there is, you know, I think uniqueness more than it is like controversial. Like it's just like what is that unique, pokey thing that, you know, it's because it's like it seems to be that that's gonna get at least half of your job done, you know.

SPEAKER_01 46:01

I mean, yeah. Well, and that's one of the things too, is I I was watching this one creator the other day, and the whole video was of this guy building a drum, uh, like a traditional drum, and it was like he, you know, was doing the wood by hand. And in a time where we've all gotten used to like these really short videos, I watched this video for 10 minutes. It was a long form like vertical video, and I was just like, Yeah, suddenly I looked down and I was just like, I've been watching this for 10 minutes, but it was so beautifully done that I just I was pulled in and I was hooked. And I think that that's one of the things you have to realize too, is like beauty can be a hook. Um, a message can be a hook. You know, it there's so many things that can pull people in. And I think that like that controversial content kind of became like the the default for a lot of people online for a while. And I think people are realizing it doesn't have to be. You can do other things, you know, and especially if you're looking at breaking into brand partnerships, they don't always want the controversy. They they want something that's stable, you know, and like you know, how if if a YouTuber is looking or someone's looking to kind of connect to bigger brand partnerships, what would you tell them?

SPEAKER_00 47:21

Well, I mean, I still think that, and I won't be the first person probably as inventionist, but you know, they're looking they're looking for the authenticist, the most authentic, you know, person that they they see within sort of a group of you know people they're considering. So like I think that like there isn't um, you know, I think that you could probably make some assumptions about the certain size of some brands and like like the safety threshold at which the you know you know, if if it's a wholesome brand or a kid's brand and you know, you've got a lot of twerking videos on your on your feed. I don't know if that's gonna necessarily line up. But like I do think that like not I I think brands, especially most most savvy brands, are gonna see through people who are too polished, you know, because they don't want that either. That's that's what they could make with their in-house team is something that sort of looks like a polished version um with like no, you know, no edge or no sort of like human feel to it. Like that's that's something that can be made all day, you know, with a small team. And so it's like it really is trying to find, you know, you know, if you're trying to get I also think knowing sort of what your category is, like I do know that like I w last year I worked with an outdoor tools brand on something, and they had like a platform of that they went to for all of their creators that were like, all outdoor creators are signed up on this on this site. And like basically, so any photographers or travel vloggers or whatever who have some foothold in outdoor activities, they're up there so that you can, it's like a marketplace, right? Um, so I think that that that can help too, is just kind of knowing, okay, well, what's my kind of category? Like, is my category am I for moms? Like, cause there, you know, there's so many of these platforms now that kind of bring these, you know, I don't know about the efficacy of how much work you get out of them, but um, you know, it seems like to be a great place to start if you're trying to get a foothold and working with more brands, you know. Um, because beyond like working direct, you know, just reaching out directly to marketing people, I don't know what other options there would be besides that.

SPEAKER_01 49:50

Right. Well, I want to ask one last question. As you're building your own content and you know, building your own creative vision, um, how do you continue to build your leverage and and and keep growing your brands?

SPEAKER_00 50:08

Uh I think it's right now it's like, you know, so I just launched a site for the first time. Like a it's a shop where you can buy or some of the some of the content's free, but you can you can um buy the books, buy the records, buy, you know, look at the comic and stuff like that. Um and so right now it's about you know a promise of like well, how can I be different than other publishers? And like, you know, one of my big things is frequency. Like I wanna, I want to put out more titles more often. There's not as many sort of like, you know, loops I need to jump through as far as with a publisher and with retailers. Um, there's a lot of things that I can kind of like fast track. And so um, you know, that's sort of my promise to my audience right now is like you're gonna have, you know, hard, tangible copies of books on a more regular basis that you guys can enjoy at home together. Um and so that that's kind of what, you know, and obviously I need to keep that engine going with more stuff. But you know, that that also becomes kind of like you know, the basis for the content that I make and whatever is all kind of fed from whatever those products that are uh that are making for that site are. Um so yeah, just keep keep going. Like I said, I think that's like just keep momentum, you know, on the things that you love, you know, and and um and uh when they hit they hit. You know.

SPEAKER_01 51:37

I love um I loved finding Nemo. It's one of my favorite movies. And I love Dory's just keep swimming, just keep swimming, just keep swimming. I think that that's one of the best things that anyone ever told me was just keep going. You'll figure it out in the the the the challenges that you have uh will be stuff that you can figure out if you can continue to put one foot in front of the other. You do not have to have all the answers, but you do have to keep moving, you know? And I think that movement is important because at the end of the day, um people want to hear what you have to say. People want to hear your story. People would love to hear the message that you're trying to share. And I think, you know, there's someone out there that can really use what you're what you're spreading, someone out there who can take that information and go, yeah, this is important to me. And uh, you know, just keep showing up. And and you know, if you need to take a breath and slow down, then do so. But understand that, you know, people are looking for what you're creating. Where can people go and look and find out more about you?

SPEAKER_00 52:50

Uh yeah, so my uh the books and stuff like that we were talking about is neonightlight.com. Um, neon as in neon sign. And then you can also go to markmaziars.squarespace.com. You can check out my advertising work and stuff like that and the brands I've worked with, um, some of my favorite stuff there too.