"Kill Your Darlings" | Mia Silverio | Full Battery Media

On this episode, Mia Silverio - a Research Lead at Prof G Media joined me to talk about storytelling, and within minutes we went from laughing about dodging motorcycles in Saigon to nearly crying over Thai insurance commercials that hit harder than most feature films. What makes a story actually stick with you instead of just being more noise in the feed? 

Mia broke down the specifics effect and how Gen Z spending 18 years of their lives on phones becomes way more dramatic when you frame it that way, and we explored how AI is literally reducing information flow through people's brains by 55% when they use it to write. The conversation shifted to my daughter and how we banned devices in our house and watched her suddenly rediscover reading for hours instead of complaining about ten minutes, which led us into this whole territory about critical thinking skills disappearing and why asking "why" might be the most important thing we can teach kids right now. We talked about Prof G's genius in calling tech companies the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, how to tell stories when you have zero audience, why trying to sound smart absolutely kills your connection with people, and where the line is between storytelling and manipulation. 

This whole thing reminded me that the best content makes you feel something, challenges you to think deeper, and gives you permission to question everything you're being told, which feels pretty revolutionary when everyone's optimizing for the algorithm instead of actual human connection.

What's the last piece of content that made you actually feel something instead of just scroll past it, and why do you think it worked when everything else doesn't?

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Making data dramatic. Like there's there are ways to present data that are frankly kind of boring. And then there are ways to present it that are fun, engaging, or shocking. And when you present it in ways like that, um, people first of all remember the data more, but it's a tool in making your story emotional and making people remember it. Um, we were doing a story on um Gen Z screen time and the kind of increase in products and technologies designed to help you cut back on technology. So it's a little bit counterintuitive, but um, like the phone blockers and dumb phones that are meant to um keep people from spending so much time on their screens. And, you know, we were looking at the amount of time that Gen Z spends on their on their phones per day. And it's something like six or seven hours a day, which is pretty crazy. Um, but then we calculated the amount of time like over their entire lifespans, not counting sleeping time, obviously. Um how much time of their entire lives are they spending on their phones? And it's something like 20% of their entire lives, or like 18 years are spent on their phones. And so even sometimes like kind of an easy manipulation like that can make Dia feel more dramatic. It like that's such like a building block of a drag story and like a resonant story.

SPEAKER_03 1:39

Welcome everybody back to the Full Battery Media Podcast. I am your host, Sean Trace, and I've got a really cool guest with me today. Would you like to tell people who you are and a little bit about what you do?

SPEAKER_01 1:48

Hi, everyone. Um, my name is Mia Silverio. I lead research at Prof. And I've worked with Scock Alway for about um six years now. So happy to happy to be joining you.

SPEAKER_03 2:01

That's awesome, and that's so awesome to have you here. And you were talking before you came. I I was telling people about um I we were talking a little bit about backstory, and I said that I lived in Vietnam, and you had said you had come here, and we were talking a little bit then the story went here and there, and we started talking about traffic and the motorcycles in the cities. And one of the things that's an interesting thing is that for anyone listening, if you want to know how to cross the street in Vietnam, there is no perfect moment to cross the street. Like, that is the reality. Like, I will see it, and it's painful to watch. I'll be at a busy intersection and I will see people that are visiting and they're just looking and they're waiting, and traffic's just going and they're waiting, and I'm just like, and I'll pull up next to them. I'm like, you just gotta go. You just gotta go. You just gotta believe that you're gonna be okay and put yourself out there into the universe and just be like, I trust that I will make it across this street. And the crazy thing is that you do now. There is a secret though, you don't rush, you don't jump ahead, you don't hesitate, you just have to go at an even pace. And it's like it's like wild, they'll just part around you. And it's this thing that I don't know if I can explain it, but it's not something you can't really completely conceptualize until you've been here. Like, I'll talk about this, and people are like, okay, yeah, I get it. But no, you don't until you come here, and then you're just like, wow, that's wild.

SPEAKER_01 3:34

No, it's insane. I was literally that tourist, and I remember I was trying to cross the street to get a coffee or something from my hotel, like my first day there. And I was just like waiting for them to stop. And then all of a sudden I realized that like they weren't going to. So I was like, okay, well, I guess I have to just go. And it no, you're totally right. Like, you can't like stop or hesitate. Like, I literally put my head down and just like slowly walked across. But if you if you look to your left, your right, and you see like these motorbikes driving like full speed at you, it's it's like very can be jarring. So then you stop or like you you freak out, but you have to just like stay calm and walk across. It was, it's really like an unbelievable experience.

SPEAKER_03 4:22

It's wild. And one of the things too that's wild about it is that one of the things that I love about stories, and in general, this is gonna root into what we're talking about today about stories and storytelling is like some of the greatest things seem unbelievable until they happen, until you experience them. And it's so to me powerful because you know, you we look back at ancient uh ancient human history, and one of the things that we have loved to do, I I had heard this quote once that we are the storytelling ape. Like humans are the like this monkey that has stories that loves to talk about itself and and give these these beautiful narratives. And it led me to think about this a little bit because we live in this age where content, content, content is everywhere, right? But I wanted to ask you this because when you look at a piece of content, what makes it a story instead of just information?

SPEAKER_01 5:18

Yeah, I think a what differentiates a story from information for me is like an element of that stories have an element of emotion to them. Like a story makes you feel something, whereas I think information to me doesn't do that as consistently. Um, and so I think like a story makes you makes you feel happy or sad or like inspires curiosity. Um and to me, I think that's the difference. And that's what I think what makes like a good story good is that it makes you feel something. So you feel some sort of emotion, it provokes a feeling in you. What do you think?

SPEAKER_03 6:02

I think that a good story is something that challenges you and is something that you can identify with, you know. One of the craziest things out there that a lot of people in the West don't know about is that Thailand has the most heartbreakingly emotionally powerful commercials. We were watching one tonight, and I don't know why they do it, but like, my goodness, the the narrative structure of Thai commercials are insane. It was for an insurance company, and it was talking about this little girl, and she was telling a story about her father, and she's like, My father's strong, my father's handsome, my father's wonderful, but my father lies. And I was just like, What the hell? And it's like, my father isn't happy, my father doesn't have a job, my father is tired, my father struggles, and he says, Oh, and it's just like even thinking about it right now, because my wife and my daughter, they showed this to me, and it showed this father, and he was doing it, and she says, But he does this all from me, and in that moment, even thinking about it right now, I am like transported to that, and it transported me to every last moment that I've struggled as a father, every last second that I have, and it was just a three-minute video, but me, my wife, and my daughter were just bawling, all of us were crying, and you know, and she was crying. My daughter came over and she says, I know how much you worked for me and sacrificed for me, and she's 10 and she's having all these deep emotions from a simple little commercial. And I sat there and I looked at my wife and I was like, I don't know what brand this is, but mad respect for them. And it was a story, right? It was a story that was able to connect and bridge something, and that to me is so powerful that they were able to do that, and that to me is what I think it's absolutely all about is can you tell stories that are powerful and make an impact?

SPEAKER_01 8:05

Yeah, and I think that I mean, that's so emotionally resonant as well, like the love that a daughter has for her father, like you're you're making your audience feel sad and grateful and like they're thinking about their relationship with their parents. Another one that comes to mind for me, a couple of years ago, a Procter and Gamble did um a commercial series around the Olympics where they showed like Olympic athletes with their, I think it was their moms, like at um sports practice when they were little. And like the mom would like help them get up when they fell down. And then it cut to like an Olympic ice hockey game. And the same mom who was like picking the kid up from the ice, it was like there in the crowd, like cheering them on. And it was so it was like so heartwarming. Um and so even like little vignettes like that, like these are probably 30 second or minute-long commercials, and they're able to like we remember them because they made us feel something, like we connected to the experience that they're describing.

SPEAKER_03 9:12

And that's it. Like that is what it's all about to be able to connect to an experience. And it leads me because like we are all so we're surrounded nowadays by by data and research, and like and you work a lot with it, but like, how do you take something so analytical and turn it into something that people actually feel? You know, that's that's the fascinating thing for me.

SPEAKER_01 9:38

Yeah, I think a lot of that has to come comes down to making data dramatic. Like, there's there are ways to present data that are frankly kind of boring, and then there are ways to present it that are fun, engaging, or shocking. And when you present it in ways like that, um people first of all remember the data more, but it it's a tool in making your story emotional and making people remember it. Um, we were doing a story on um Gen Z screen time and the kind of increase in products and technologies designed to help you cut back on technology. So it's a little bit counterintuitive, but um, like the phone blockers and dumb phones that are meant to um keep people from spending so much time on their screens. And, you know, we were looking at the amount of time that Gen Z spends on their on their phones per day, and it's something like six or seven hours a day, which is pretty crazy. Um, but then we calculated the amount of time like over their entire lifespans, not counting sleeping time, obviously. Um how much time of their entire lives are they spending on their phones? And it's something like 20% of their entire lives, or like 18 years are spent on their phones. And so even sometimes like kind of an easy manipulation like that can make Dia feel more dramatic. And yeah, it like that's such like a building block of a drag story and like a resonant story.

SPEAKER_03 11:22

I I think that it's so powerful um to think about that because too, one of the things that like say I was making a commercial in that tie style, right? You know, so I'm sitting there thinking about how to make that impactful because I still that's resonated with me. And to show what occurred in those 18 years that they missed, you know. Think about flying away and and leaving man. I didn't mean to get all emotional on this every time. I travel a lot and I leave my daughter in Vietnam, and it's really hard for me. 10-year-old, um, she is my North Star. She is why I created all my podcasts, all of my content. It's all because of her and trying to make this world a little bit of a better place for her and the kids like her. I used to be a children's teacher and I love teaching children, but I couldn't make the world a better place as much as I wanted to doing that. So I tried to grab it, get out there, and inspire other people to do it by doing podcasts and things like that. But do you know how I measure how far I am from home? It's not hours of flying. I'm like straight up think about if the zombie apocalypse came, how long would it take me to get back to her? Like that's it. And so when I flew to San Francisco recently, I sat there and I calculated it. I said, All right, what would it take me to walk from San Francisco to Southeast Asia? Like brutal, absolutely brutal. And I did the math, and it was like two to three years. And it was like, you know, and like I I used AI to research that. And it's like, and you gotta plan for you gotta plan for the right season to go through Alaska. Like Alaska will kill you without the if you're walking in this post-apocalyptic world, you know, that's gonna be brutal. I'm thinking about crossing the Bering Sea. I mean, hey, the post-apocalyptic world, are you rowing across the Bering Sea? And then you think you're on, then suddenly you're in Asia, but you gotta navigate Kamchatka, you know, which is also home to giant grizzly bears, you know, and then we're talking other post-apocalyptic world, you know, making it through city centers of of of of of whatever that's what my brain goes.

SPEAKER_00 13:31

And yeah, it sounds like an Odyssean journey. Jesus Christ, right? It is, it seriously is.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Yeah, yeah, it's truly it can make they'd make a movie of you after the zombie apocalypse.

SPEAKER_03 13:44

I was I wrote the short story already. I I was like, I I had a creative writing project I was working on, and I wrote like a little bit of that, and I just it made me ball, but like a simple flight from home. Other people are sitting there going, yeah, it's a 10-hour flight. I'm sitting there going, what's the struggle that I would have to go through to get back to my child? But when I say that, there's gonna be other people that sit there and listen and go, Yeah, I measure time in going back to the the the the like and coming back to what we were talking about the phone. Like maybe, you know, four years away from my daughter. What would 18 years be like? And that's time that when I spend that time on my phone, if I'm missing 18 years with her, that's messed up, you know?

SPEAKER_01 14:26

Totally. Yeah. No, a hundred percent. Um, I think timing also matters a lot with when you're trying to come up with like data that's dramatic and and stories that m really resonate. Um, I think they're like just times in our culture in the news cycle where people are particularly primed to feel connected to certain narratives. Um I I think the um Artemis II was a really great example of this. Like I think, you know, people are feeling disconnected. There's strife and and different like wars going on. And I feel like a a story of of innovation and science, but also people coming together, a Canadian and American coming together, um, and like this kind of wholesome like moment of unity and connection, like that was a story that people were dying to hear. And I think that's part of why it resonated so much. So I think timing is an important part of this too.

SPEAKER_03 15:38

I 100% agree. And going back to Tartamis, it is movie. I got to work with Ron Howard. I got my start in cinema and movies by working with Ron Howard on the movie Angels and Demons, which was such a masterclass watching those guys for six months. I got so lucky. I got cast as a background actor. And then suddenly someone was like, Hey, do you want to be a stand-in? Like you work in the crew for six months, we'll bring you back in. And I was like, Yes, please. Like, I'd love to be here for six months and get paid to do this. And I did, and it was awesome working with him. It was just so cool. And like meeting all these really cool people on set was amazing. But thinking back to Ron Howard and Apollo 11, Apollo 11 was such an interesting time in space as well. No one gave a shit about space travel at that time. It was old news, and people were like, Yeah, you know, whatever, we already went to the moon. Why are we still going up there? But yet this challenge came along and like suddenly it became relevant, you know? And and like I think about Artemis, it is relevant right now because of the challenges we're having in our whole world. So I love that you bring that up. But I wanted to ask you another thing because it makes me think about that. When you know, you start doing this, and where do you usually start when building the story? Do you start with the data? Do you start with the timing? Do you start with the idea, or do you start with the human angle? Like, where are you guys sitting there going, hey, let's talk about this? Or are we like, hey, we're looking at the numbers. This is important right now. Where do you start?

SPEAKER_01 17:09

I think both, I would say. Um, I I think a good story can emerge from either starting with data or um having an idea for a story. Um an example that comes to mind where I kind of started with data was I was thinking about these big data centers that the AI companies are building. And I was curious how many humans, like they talk the the big tech companies talk about these data centers, like they're going to be like incredible additions to communities because they're creating so many jobs. And I see how they're creating construction jobs, and that's great, but that's temporary. And I was wondering like this is just basically like a building full of servers, like how many humans are really needed. And turns out an average data center, and they're huge, it's like they create like 30 jobs, like long-term, full-time jobs. And so that's like basically two like fast casual restaurants coming into town, or like a Walmart, maybe. Um, and so it's not like that impactful. And so then that kind of got us started like in investigating community pushback against data centers. And that was actually one of our predictions for 2026 was that data centers were gonna start to see a lot of pushback from local communities, and that's now completely happening. So that was kind of a a story that I feel like we got a little bit of an early start on, just based on like a hunch I had in data that I saw. Um, but I also think a lot of great stories come from just like things you notice. I uh watched Derek Thompson, who's a journalist, he's now in Substack, and he had this video where he explained that sometimes what being a journalist is, is paying attention to the little voice in your head that sees something out in the world and is like, but wait, like why is that why is that like that? Or like it's so weird that I don't know, like all these little psychics and palm readers are still in business in New York City? Like, that was a question that we had. Um, we have a Slack channel called No Dumb Questions at Professor Media, and people just dump questions like that in there. Like, um how does the little recapture, you know, when you plug like I'm not a robot, like how does that know you're not a robot? Like that's that's kind of like a random fun question. And I and so I think like good stories can come out of like little nuances that you just notice. And we actually wrote a story on the the business of spirituality based on a question about like how these palm readers are staying in business in New York City.

SPEAKER_03 20:13

That's wild. I gotta go dig up that story. That is interesting to me. Well, and that was gonna lead kind of another question. Like, what's a story that you've worked on that really stayed with you and why?

SPEAKER_01 20:24

So something that I'm really kind of obsessed with right now is the impact that AI is having on human intelligence is stressful and concerning to me. Um and there's there's definitely not enough research on this yet to have like a definitive answer as to like how it's impacting human intelligence, but there have been some studies that have been really concerning, specifically showing that the more you rely on AI, the less you use your own critical thinking skills. And I think at a time like this, where there's so much fake news and misinformation and and people trying to convince their audiences of really extreme takes, like having a critical thinking practice and like having that skill is so important. Um and I just worry that um people are outsourcing, you know, cognitive work to AI. And if you don't practice writing or you don't practice actually like reading a document and seeing what you think of it, like you lose those skills. And so I wrote, um, I write a a newsletter based on our markets podcast every week. And I wrote a blog post about it a couple of weeks ago. Um, and there's there was this one study um where they had three groups of people write an essay, and one of them, one of the groups didn't have anything. One of the groups had access to a search engine and the other had access to a large language model. And the group that used AI had something like 55% reduced information flow through their brain. They were wearing like an EKG monitor or something. And they couldn't, after they wrote the essay, they couldn't remember anything they had written about it. They couldn't reproduce a sentence. And so it just really like m impacted me. Like these, you know, if you write, if you write with AI, like how much are how how much are you actually working? Um and so I'm just I'm I'm following that story and hopefully, I don't know, hopefully we'll figure out a way to use it in a responsible manner.

SPEAKER_03 22:55

Right? It's interesting. One of the things too, like I I think that with all of this, it's interesting to see how people are going to adapt. Because, you know, one of the things that's powerful about humans throughout history is that we've had the ability to adapt. But are we going to be able to adapt to this? You know, I don't know. But I I think that it's interesting that that's such a powerful story because it's it's timely and everyone is thinking about that right now. And it's also something that is important because a lot of people are starting to ask the questions, you know, where does my livelihood, where do we fit, where do I fit in this new world that we're we're kind of coming to? But I want to it it also, you know, with AI and with everything, a lot of people trying to sound smart instead of just being clear. You know, how does that hurt their storytelling?

SPEAKER_01 23:48

Yeah, I think that's a huge problem. First, I think there are like three main problems with that that come to mind. First is just that you come across as being inauthentic. And I think authenticity is a really important component of telling a good story. Like if you don't believe the storyteller, the story doesn't really work. Um, it also creates a kind of distance problem between this, the storyteller and the audience. So if you're trying to sound smart and you're you integrating all of these really complex details into whatever story you're telling, um, your audience is probably exerting like a lot of effort just trying to figure out what you're saying. And so in in that moment, they have kind of stopped feeling anything. Like they're not connecting with the story, they're just trying to understand what you're saying. Um, and so I think you're it in doing that, you you're making your story less impactful. Um I also think it's probably a sign that like you've optimized for the wrong audience. Like if you're if you sound like you're trying to sound smart, then you probably haven't curated your what you're saying to who you think is listening. And I think that just makes the audience feel like I don't know, like maybe you don't care about them or like you don't you don't um think they're smart enough to understand something explained in a in a mature way. Um so yeah, there I think there are a lot of problems there.

SPEAKER_03 25:35

I used to teach English for kids in Asia, and one of the things that I remember is that the way we do test taking and we do, you know, work with kids on exams is completely wrong with English stuff, especially the IELTS, because they're rewarded for trying to sound fancy. Like the more vocab you use, the more that you're trying to like, well, the elevator to the you know, blah blah blah, I don't know. I I I can't even do it because it's not how we talk, it's not how people talk normally. It is a whole different thing that that they want people to do. Instead, just like my daughter is a native speaker and she studies at the school, and she got a you know, an eight out of ten on her listening. She's like, How can I get an eight out of ten? Like, some of these kids in my class they don't speak English, and they got a 10 out of 10. And I said, Because you're not listening for what they're testing for. And I was like, Well, she's like, What do you mean? And I said, These answers are written to sound smart and to test people's ability to go deep on something. So it's like, if I said, Hey, uh, Mia, do you want to go to a movie? And you're like, Yeah, sure. What time should we go? Maybe 5 p.m. Sure. Okay, cool. Ah, that's not how these exams do it. They'll be like, Hey, what time do you want to go to the exam or to go to the uh the movie? And then oh, the dude two voices, because it's it's always a British action.

SPEAKER_02 26:58

Hello, Sally, what time do you want to go to the movie? Oh, don't know, Tom. How about five? No, mom's coming home at five. How about six? Oh, six, I've got extra homework. How about we go at seven? Seven's good, but maybe the movie's playing at eight.

SPEAKER_03 27:12

And then the kids are sitting there going, oh my god, you know, I go, no one talks like that. You know, no one, no one, no one sets up movies like that. Like in real life, we're like, just tell me a time. We'll figure it out.

SPEAKER_02 27:23

What time's the movie plan? Like, we'll go.

SPEAKER_03 27:25

Totally. It's totally leads you to try to sound smart, and it's but it's it it runs people in circles and they just sit there and get stressed out, you know.

SPEAKER_01 27:35

Totally. Yeah, I think it something so underappreciated is like um speaker audience match. Like you have to make sure you're speaking in the same language, um, or else it's like that's just a bad starting point for any story.

SPEAKER_03 27:53

Right? It really is. You do have to match up, and it's so important. I wanted to ask you another question too, because I was fascinated um about this and kind of ties in like what makes people trust a story versus question it? Because, like, when I listened to those speaking exams and the kids were going on about the different times, I'm like, I don't trust these two people. Like, I don't want to go to movies with him. They make me feel unsafe right now. Tell him he doesn't understand how to ask for time. You know, but like when people are listening to something, like what makes it real versus people go, you know what, this is this is ridiculous. This is too much.

SPEAKER_01 28:26

Yeah, if you suggest three separate times for a movie, it's definitely too weird to be trustworthy. Um, but in all seriousness, yeah, super shady. Um, I think a really important part of that, uh, of sounding trustworthy is honestly including quantitative data. And that's something my boss, Scott, does really well. Um, there's there's even something called the specificity effect, where people perceive numbers, specific numbers, as more trustworthy. And I think people, when they hear, hear you citing quantitative data, there's there's kind of a leap they make to like, okay, like this person has done their research. They they have numbers to back it up. And I think that's a really kind of simple way to leveling up your credibility, is just add some numbers into your story.

SPEAKER_03 29:28

Yeah, right. Like, I've had people come on and I've done this too, where I'm like, you know what, there's this guy who said this thing. Really? What do you say? Well, you know, he was this guy. I think he's kind of smart. He but versus like there was a guy who did it, his name was Joe Thomas, and this is the date, and this is where, you know, it's a lot, a lot more powerful if you can actually do that. And I mean, the challenge is that it takes time and it takes a willingness to go deep. And this is one of the things I love that book, Deep Work. And it's like we have gotten to the point of like everything's shallow. I we've got this new thing where we did not allow my daughter to have a device, and I'm really frustrated that the school sent us a message going, Hey, your child needs to bring a tablet to school tomorrow, and we're gonna teach them to use AI in the classroom. And my wife and I are like, dude, we just instituted a no device, like um like rule at home for my daughter, and you know what happened? She started reading, she's been reading like crazy. And like, we got I went and bought all these books, and I was like, as long as you're reading, I'll buy you whatever book you want. And she's been going deep. And what she was used, she used to complain. She's like, Oh, I just had to read reading for 10 minutes. The other day, she got a really good book and she didn't stop for two and a half hours. She's 10, and I just I remember those days where I would dig up, like dig into a book when I was a kid, and I would just not stop. I remember I read one book, it was some fantasy book when I was in high school. I read the entire thing in an 18-hour marathon overnight, just woke up the next morning. I was like, I finished the next morning. It's just like, wow, that was good. Because I was able to go deep because it was like that that ability to go deep in things is something that I think we're sort of missing right now. And I mean, in content as well, people touch the surface, you know. How much money do you make? How did you make that fortune? You know, that's pretty cool, you know, to go up to a billionaire on the street, but you're not getting the true story. You're not hearing about the struggle, you're not hearing about all of the facets, you know? How can we go deep?

SPEAKER_01 31:40

Yeah, I think the short form videos really like don't encourage that kind of depth. Um, and I think that's so amazing that your daughter is is is reading. And I I remember my dad said something similar when I was probably 10. He was like, I'll buy you any book you want. Like books, like you just get like whatever you want, I'll get them for you. And um it really like I love to read to this day. And I think it's so important now, where like I mean, people's attention spans are like completely in the toilet. Um, and just like to have the ability to like sink in and it a good book like transports you to another world. Um, and it's I don't know, it's so cool to have that experience and not be like, I don't know, like in a VR game where it's like it you're in another world, but you're just like in a book. Like, I don't know, I think that's so cool.

SPEAKER_03 32:40

I 100% agree. What it leads to me, like what I was talking about too, the idea of like we we going deep too, but like it leads to my next question because whether we like it or not, short form content is here to stay. And like, how do you simplify something complex without losing what's actually true? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 33:02

Yeah, that that's a really hard one. And I've definitely struggled with that a lot. I'm naturally very curious. So I often I think over include details that I think are just really interesting and exciting, but are maybe accessory details that need to be lost. And so I think it's a really hard process. Like you have to um look kill your darlings, as some writers said once. Um I so one of the things one I've started to do to like practice this is pretend like I'm explaining a topic to a friend and then kind of work up from that, but like have that be the baseline. Like if I was just gonna like tell my tell my friend this is what I'm this is what I was working on today at work, and say it in a in a way that like is really accessible, and then add on like the most important details to that. So I think like first you have to get the baseline and then you can add the the details that like make your story sound more credible. Um, but that way I think when you when you start with a a clear baseline, it's harder to overcomplicate it.

SPEAKER_03 34:23

I love that. And honestly, I really random, but I had someone mention Kill Your Darlings the other day in my pod, one of my podcasts, and I was like, I love that quote. And I actually looked up where that originated, and it was like, uh, it's generally credited to the British writer and critic Sir Arthur Quiller Couch, who used it in in a speech, uh later published uh like at Cambridge in like 1914 or 1916, and it was uh published on the art of writing, as they all know the art of writing. I was just like, but one of the things that's fascinating about that is that when you do that with writing, when you get rid of the things that are so precious, and and you're able to really focus in on the essence of a story, it leaves the the person that's reading with just as this like, wow, if they're willing to do go there, where else are they willing to go? You know, and how it applies to to short form and to any story, I think that you know, figuring out the essence. What is the essence? I once had someone who asked me, like, if you were to boil down the essence of you, what would it be? And I was this this last Christmas with my daughter and I, for a Christmas present for my wife, we made her uh some perfume. So we went and they had this place and we got to go in and pick all of these scents. And when my daughter was sitting there trying to define the smell of her mother, what perfume would be her? And she was going through all of these different smells, like that's not mom, this is mom. But and then you had to start thinking of the balance. But yet, what we found is we wanted to make something really complex, but the reality was the more that we wanted to get close to what her the the essence of her, we had to peel things away. When we picked all these, this could be mom, this could be mom, this could be mom, we threw them all together. We're like, what the hell is that? It's just overbearing. And so she sat there and she started pulling away the things that were definitely not mom. And then we got this thing, this the scent that we we gave it to my wife, and my wife is very picky with perfume, and she smelled it, she's like, This this is good, and so but we were able to get there by peeling things away, and I was just like, ah, it made me feel so happy. And I was just like, what a cool moment to see that though, too.

SPEAKER_01 36:45

Oh my god, that's so cool. What a great story. Um, I I think peeling peeling things away and and killing your darlings, like that too is a labor of love because it means that you care, like you've gotten to a point where you care so much about the story that like you're attached to sentences or sense. Um, and so I think it's ultimately a good sign. Like it's a sign that you know you you you have, you know, love for someone or like passion for a subject.

SPEAKER_03 37:18

I um I think that there is something to be said that when you have that passion for a subject and you stick with it, it's so powerful too, you know. But I wanted to ask you a little bit about you've worked closely with Prof. You know, for six years, like you said. How important is storytelling and the way he communicates big ideas? Because like I wanna, I'm not gonna lie, I listened to Prof. And I'm like sitting there going, mm-hmm. I understand 10% of this, but he helps me get 90% of it because the way it's put together. So I wanted to ask you, how do you guys do that?

SPEAKER_01 37:52

Yeah, I mean, that is absolutely an integral part to Prof. Um, he's really like masterful, a masterful storyteller. Um, and I've learned uh so much from him. I think one of the biggest um lessons I I've learned from him is the importance of of merging creativity and and research and data as for business stories. Like I I think there's this preconception that if you're telling a serious story about um businesses or markets, like it shouldn't be uh creative. It shouldn't be like fun or creative in any way. Like you should like just like say the facts. And I don't think that's necessary always. Like I think you can make it creative and you can really differentiate should differentiate yourself by adding creativity to business stories. Like he one of his first books was about um the big four tech companies, and he called them the four horsemen of the apocalypse. And so obviously that's a little bit hyperbolic, but it kind of turns this like, oh, Apple, Amazon, Google, Facebook, like okay, whatever, those are companies, but the four horsemen of the apocalypse is like that's kind of that's so dramatic and creative and and makes a story about tech companies so much more interesting.

SPEAKER_03 39:34

Right. It it does, and especially because um one of the things that I think that we see is when you can make those stories especially tie back to things that are like four horsemen of the apocalypse has these ancient, you know, like connotations that people have talked about that for thousands of years. Is it a thousand? Maybe about a thousand years, fifteen hundred years. And when you you start having these references that you think you tie into something else, it's really easy to understand. Like, no one's thinking the four horsemen of the apocalypse is gonna be something that's gonna be like, hey, how you do, happy story, you know. First of all, you got layers there, and you've got the word apocalypse, you know. So it you know that it's gonna be going in an interesting direction. Like that's masterful naming, you know. But I wanted to ask you this too, because for people that are not Prof. How can they start telling stories that people actually care about?

SPEAKER_01 40:33

I would say my advice would be start with something that you really care about. I think if you are really passionate about a story, you're going to tell it a lot better than someone who isn't as passionate about the story. And without kind of a name or a brand behind you, the bar is higher. Um, so the quality has to be really good. And I think the the easiest way to make the quality of your story really good is is to talk about something that you that you are passionate about. Like it'll it will make the research process a lot more fun. And people, I think comes across when you're talking about a topic that you really care about. I think like people pick up on that. And so you become kind of more convincing and you seem really authentic. And so I think that like raises the the quality of your story. And, you know, if you don't have a name behind you, like I think you know, you have to differentiate with with quality.

SPEAKER_03 41:40

I love that. I think that's one of the most important things. Quality and also connecting to people that are quality, you know, and it you might not have the quality there yet, but can you connect to people who are gonna help you achieve that, you know, and or can at least model with that for you? You know, as a young filmmaker, I didn't know about quality, but then I got to work with Ron Howard and see the way his team thinks. And my God, their quality was exceptional, you know, and it got me motivated to every single time I'm filming something to try to be a little bit better, to try to be a little bit more like him, you know. Uh, so that something that popped up there. But I wanted to ask you this next question because, you know, what's one story storytelling skill that would immediately make those creators better?

SPEAKER_01 42:30

Two things pop into my head. One, the quantitative data point I made earlier. I genuinely think integrating data and numbers into the stories you tell um just make them come across as uh more convincing um and you seem more credible. And then kind of connected to what you you were just saying. Um consult people that you admire and you know, don't be afraid to get help. You know, we have a great bench of other researchers and writers and editors at Prof Gmedia, and they are so essential to every story we tell. Like no one is working solo here. And so I think having a team that can give you advice or edits, um, suggestions for improvements, like that's just gonna raise the bar so much.

SPEAKER_03 43:25

I love that. I I think then that's something that's awesome. Now, uh, when does storytelling cross the line from people understanding the truth to subtly manipulating it, you know? Because we live in a time where a lot of manipulation is happening. Let's be real. For sure.

SPEAKER_01 43:41

For sure. Um, yeah, no, it's it's absolutely a a problem. Um, I think honestly, that to some extent, any story is a manipulation of the truth. I think the closest you can come to the truth is probably like a double. Blind peer-reviewed scientific study in a lab. And so even the scientists who are writing up the lab report of that data, like they're interpreting it. And so that's kind of, you know, they're trying to be objective, but that's still a story in a way. And so anytime you frame data in a certain way, like you are you're manipulating the truth. Um, and there's I think though there is a way of telling stories where you s you stay connected or you maintain like a fidelity to the truth. And I think that's just, you know, making sure you're staying faithful to the facts that you are including. Like maybe you're framing data in a certain way, but like the data you're presenting is true. Um, and then you're giving your audience the opportunity to access that data. And then maybe they disagree with you. Um, but they have the facts, and then and you're letting people like interpret them as they want to interpret them. Um, but I think it's also just important to realize that like any story you hear, like any news story, like on the T on TV or social media or on CNN.com, like all of that is shaped in a certain way. Like, and I I think it's just important to recognize and be able to like suss out who who's telling you the story and how might it be, how might the truth be shifted based on who's telling it?

SPEAKER_03 45:36

I love that. And I love the fact that, you know, I like that you're actually calling it the way it is, though, because I do think every story is a manipulation. It just is what is the intent of the person behind it? You know, like every advertisement, that story that I watched tonight about the father, that commercial, they were trying to sell insurance. They were trying to say, you know, here you've got this little kid, you know, you got this emotional moment, protect that moment, protect your child with life insurance. You know, and I was just like, wow, well done. Great story. But that was a manipulation of a story, you know. And I think that, you know, though if we can start seeing what people's agendas are, but again, that comes down to critical thinking skills. It comes down to asking why. It comes down to all of us sitting there going, is that true? Are you sure? Like, I'm gonna question that. I had one of the greatest professors ever, uh, Professor uh Francis, and he was in university, Professor Keith Francis, he was a history teacher. And do you know the entire time I was in university, I never knew what any of his personal beliefs were, never had any idea. I didn't know if he was liberal or conservative. I did not know what he believed on any of these topics because he never told me anything. He never told us anything, but he would let us pick any topic we want and he would attack it. And he went after every opinion equally. He would look at us and he would break it down. And he was like, You believe that? Great. Why? Oh, because of this. Okay, and then he would play the devil's advocate and go at you. And it might be his belief, but he would still go at you no matter what. And it taught us to really defend our position. And if your position is untenable, to maybe look at about adapting it or choosing a new position, you know, and I think that that was such a powerful thing.

SPEAKER_01 47:37

Definitely. That sounds like an amazing professor. And he was awesome. That just yeah, it got me thinking like, I feel like little kids often uh there's they ask why a lot. Like they'll ask their parents, like, okay, like we, you know, we have to do this, but why? And then the parent will explain something and they'll say, okay, but why? And I was just thinking, like, I really hope that still happens. I don't, I don't have kids myself. I'm not around little kids, but I know, like, I was talking to my cousin who's in fifth grade the other week, and he was saying that all he and all of his friends use AI in school for basically everything. And then the school has tried to block it, but they've gotten around it. And so I just wanna like I hope that these kids who are who are using AI all the time, I hope they maintain that like classic childhood curiosity because asking why is so important. And like that, I feel like that's such a foundational part of like kids are born curious. And so they they ask why all the time. And I don't know, that that'll be like the downfall of our society when children stop asking why.

SPEAKER_03 48:52

I I a hundred percent, a hundred percent agree. And here I am as a father who is, you know, my daughter's teacher is like, oh, we will make sure that tomorrow they will be they're gonna use these in the right way. And meanwhile, she's like having us download an AI app that they can use to organize their schoolwork. And I mean, granted, it sounds like a better one than just Chat GPT and stuff and what the description was. But at the same time, I was like sitting there looking at the teacher, going, it's your job to teach. Like, find ways to teach, find ways to inspire, find ways to get these kids off of devices. Because what was it? The um great book, The Anxious Generation by Jonathan Hayde, goes into the the absolute dangers of devices. And my wife and I, we saw it. Our daughter, she's squirming in her piano class like this. And we were like, and I looked at my wife, and she looked at me and she's like, we had let our daughter use a tablet for three months. And I were like, you know what? You stay off of YouTube Shorts, stay off the we're nowhere near TikTok, and like because but it was like it was like a drug for her. She kept going back and she's just scrolling and scrolling. And I'm not trying to throw any company under the bus, but I am saying I think that one of the things that's so powerful is to teach people how to ask questions, you know, going back to that early Socratic method, you sit there and you ask why. You ask why. My daughter, we we sit at the juncture of two different thought systems. We have the Confucian system and we have the Western, you know, Socratic-based system that questions why, my, why. And we also have the this is the way it is. And both of them have their strengths and weaknesses. But it was interesting because as my daughter tries to navigate that in her school system, one of the things that we find is that um we've had to work with people that can help her get to the point of going down that path. And that questioning is so important. So I went and I found a new math teacher for my daughter because the math teacher we had was a very nice person. We had a private tutor helping my daughter. Um, but it was like, this is the way. This is the way. Do it this way. And when my teacher was sitting there, and one day she got her homework sent home and it wasn't graded. And the teacher's like, this is too messy. I'm not gonna like, and I was I messaged the teacher back and I was like, was it correct? And she's like, No, I didn't even check it. It's too messy, and she's like, Was it correct? You know, and so I I was like, I gotta find a new tutor. I found this tutor, awesome tutor from Malaysia, and she studied in Europe and is just a little math genius, absolutely awesome person. And she's this little like insurrectionist in my daughter's mind around math. And she's like, All right, Alan, I don't care what your teacher says. Uh, we're gonna get there. And you she's like, these are the two different methods. My teacher will get angry at me if I use that method, but it's easier and you're less likely to make mistakes. And I don't want you to, I don't care what your teacher says. Your the goal of math is to get the correct answer. That is the beauty of science. That is the beauty of mathematics. It's about the the getting there, the journey to that. And now we're gonna understand why. And my daughter's like, there's a why to math. What do you mean there's a why? Okay, I'm gonna do it this way, but why? And it was just, I saw these lights begin to turn from this is the way it is, this is one plus one equals two. Why does one plus one equal two?

SPEAKER_02 52:44

Have you thought about that?

SPEAKER_03 52:46

Have you thought about asking questions for these things that we just assume are always true? And those critical skills, I think, are something that are going to be so important as humankind steps into a new era. And as people that work in content, how do we nudge people toward critical thinking? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 53:09

Yeah, that's that's a hard one. Um, I think, I mean, I think by like telling stories where we that come from a place of pre curiosity, like we're asking why, that's leading us to the story that we're telling you that you enjoy. Um and so I think if you, I don't know, if you get used to hearing um stories where people are investigating, challenging uh what's assumed to be true. Um, they're maybe surprising you. I think that sets a great example and maybe that empowers you to do the same and challenge what people are telling you is is true.

SPEAKER_03 53:50

I love that. I I I love um what was it? Yeah, I was a kid and this ridiculous show, and I'm old, uh, called Unsolved Mysteries, and they were like looking at all these fantastic different things that could have happened. You know, I was like, was the Bermuda Triangle actually mystical? And like, and these people were sitting there. But then again, like I think that one of the things I have faith in and hope in is that we'll have an equal number of mythbusters that come out, and you know, like that what a great TV show that was. That they sat there and almost break this stuff down, you know. And I think that the person that I would say has carried the torch of that would be like Mark Robert, and there will be other people that come out and do this. So I am uh when it comes to content, I am cautiously optimistic, but I'm trying to channel my inner Ted Lasso and believe because I think it's good. Where can people go to find out more about you and what you do?

SPEAKER_01 54:45

I would say check out my Substack page. Um, that's where all of my writing um lives, and from there you can get to the Prof. But I'm it's under my name, Mia Silerio. And yeah, thank you so much for having me.