The World Is Your Talent Pool | Jordan Hayes | Full Battery Media

I sat down with Jordan Hayes, founder of a multi-million dollar e-commerce marketing agency and co-founder of the hiring platform Yander.io, and this conversation genuinely shifted how I think about building a business. 

Jordan started running Facebook ads at 16 with no strategy and no roadmap - just a YouTube video, a warm referral, and the willingness to learn on the job. From freelancing for free to leading a fully remote team of 23 people across four continents, his story is proof that the world really is your talent pool if you're bold enough to think beyond your zip code.

We got into what actually moves the needle with Meta ads in 2026, why your email list is the most valuable asset your business can own, and how AI isn't here to replace your team, it's here to multiply what they can do. Jordan's take on hiring AI orchestrators over just cutting headcount is one of the most practical and honest perspectives I've heard on this topic. 

When a new tool or technology comes along, are you the first one to test it or the last one to come around, and what's one tool that changed how you work?

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Yeah, it's it's very random, honestly. Like that there was no there was no strategy. Uh I I feel extremely lucky and blessed to have kind of stumbled into that at that age. Before that, I had no idea what I wanted to do. I was a typical 16-year-old and came across a video about running Facebook ads for other businesses. And then like from that day, I was like, cool, I want to do this. Uh something flipped. And maybe, maybe it was bringing me back to my entrepreneurial spirit that I always had, but had yet to discover. And yeah, um, started to learn how to run Facebook ads by watching YouTube videos, and then got was very, very lucky to get my first client who was someone that my parents knew. So it was kind of like a warm intro, warm referral. Um but yeah, like you just start and then you you kind of learn on the job. That's that's how I did it.

SPEAKER_02 1:00

All right, welcome everybody back to the Full Battery Media Podcast. I have an awesome guest with me today. Would you like to tell people who you are and a little bit about what you do?

SPEAKER_00 1:08

Yep, my name is Jordan Hayes, and at the age of 16, I started running Facebook ads. And long story short, freelance for a few years built a marketing agency. We work with some of the fastest growing e-commerce brands around the world, mainly in the US, and we help them grow. We do the Facebook ads, we also manage their email marketing, and we've helped brands go from zero to over 10 million per year in revenue in just a few years. And I built a fully remote team. Uh, we are 23 people, and most of our team is in countries like Brazil, Colombia. Uh, we also have people in the Philippines, uh, we also have people in the UK, Europe, so we're pretty spread out. Um and aside from that, I also started a software company where we help other companies place candidates into their companies. They we help them hire by giving them the tools that they need to find people within these remote areas, um, like South America, um, Southeast Asia, South Africa. Um, so yeah. It's a little bit about me.

SPEAKER_02 2:12

That's awesome, man. It's awesome because it's like the world is opening up. I mean, I I moved overseas in 2001, and my wife and I were talking about this yesterday. We were driving, you know, across Vietnam, and I run, I run a company in the US, but most of my team is based in Vietnam. You know, we're spread out. I work with people around the world. But, you know, I remember when I first moved to Vietnam in 2001, like connecting, getting anything done, it was like so crazy. And it's wild now the ability that we have to connect with people around the world, with talent around the world, with styles around the world. I had my wife, and we were doing a song for her. She's a professional musician, and everyone that we were talking to was thinking inside of this box. So I said, let's find someone from a different region that's outside the box. So we found and connected with this kid from Colombia, and we took a traditional Vietnamese song, gave it to him, and said, Hey, what can you do with this? What can you create from this? And he went in a direction that no one here would think of. And it was one of the top songs that my wife had come out recently because it was just so different. And like that's one of the cool things, too, is I think we have the ability to connect with people in so many great places and diverse ways that it gives you this this head, like this level up that you might not even know that you need, you know?

SPEAKER_00 3:37

Yeah, uh it's interesting because uh with the world that we live in, if you run a business, the the world is your talent pool. You can hire people from anywhere. Yeah. Now, obviously, if you're in the US and you hire someone in New Zealand, it's probably gonna be hard to get things done because of the time zones. You can still do it, but it we're so connected now that I think more and more people are opening up to the fact that, well, hang on, we don't just have to hire people in our zip code. Um, we can hire people you know in different countries and near shoring is basically you know hiring people within similar time zones, but not in your country. So Nazi America is such a great talent pool for people in the US because it's practically the same time zone. There's a few hours difference. Um and honestly, for me it was it was luck that I, you know, found amazing people in those regions. And um, that's kind of how I hired a lot of people there is you know, early success and then you know, finding really what works. Um so yeah, it's it's good to see that more people are opening up to that.

SPEAKER_02 4:41

I love it too. I want to swing back to something you said earlier because dude started running Facebook ads at 16. Like, what did you actually do on day one? And how did that start? Because I mean, 16 a lot of 16-year-olds I know are not sitting there going, hey, I need to start my own marketing agency. Like wild stuff, man. How did you get into that?

SPEAKER_00 5:01

Yeah, it's it's very random, honestly. Like that there was no there was no strategy. Uh I I feel extremely lucky and blessed to have kind of stumbled into that at that age. Before that, I had no idea what I wanted to do. I was a typical 16-year-old and came across a video about running Facebook ads for other businesses. And then like from that day, I was like, cool, I want to do this. Uh, something flipped, and maybe it was bringing me back to my entrepreneurial spirit that I always had, but had yet to discover. And yeah, um, started to learn how to run Facebook ads by watching YouTube videos, and then got was very, very lucky to get my first client who was someone that my parents knew. So it was kind of like a warm intro, warm referral. Um but yeah, like you just start and then you you kind of learn on the job. That's that's how I did it.

SPEAKER_02 5:53

I love it, man. It's interesting too, because I I think some of the best things are, you know, when you learn on the job. I was getting into filmmaking early on in my career, and I stumbled upon this job in Hollywood working with like a famous, some famous directors on a big movie. And dude, it was like pure luck that I got all these things in place. And I got hired for 10 days, and then suddenly like I made friends with everyone, and they're like, dude, why don't you come back and work the whole movie? So I got to work with them for four months. And it was just like that that foundation laid the groundwork for so much of the work that I would do later and I still do. And it's like you don't necessarily know um what's going to open those doors. But you know, getting back to like uh thinking about Facebook ads, Facebook ads are something that's always confused me, you know. And I wanted to ask you this because like if someone has 500 bucks and wants to run their first ad today, where does it go and what should you do? You know? Because I'm still confused by that.

SPEAKER_00 6:53

The game has changed so much. You know, 2016 is a decade ago now. So just knowing that I've seen every all the changes over the years, uh, from like the privacy iOS updates to the algorithm changes has been more than I can count. But if you wanted to run ads today in 2026, time of recording this, the most important thing is that you feed Facebook or Meta the variety of creatives that it needs to do its job. By creatives, I mean images and videos. So these are the actual ads that the end user is gonna see, right? So if you're targeting uh, let's just say business owners who are business owners who need accounting software, right? We'll keep it very simple. You're probably gonna include an image of a business owner in your ad. You're probably gonna say something like, you know, are you overpaying, you're paying too much for your accounting, or are you still doing it yourself? And the way to target people is not to do like a bunch of interest targeting to say, I'm gonna, I want to target these people and them, you know, this age, this gender. We keep that open and meta is smart enough, they know who's on their platform way better than us. So we just give it the right images and videos. It will actually read those and see basically the image and the video that we're using, and then it will feed them to the correct people who are most likely to convert. So I would say as long as you have a product or a service that people want and you deliver value, the next best thing is to have a lot of creative variety and just make sure you're speaking directly to the person that you want to convert.

SPEAKER_02 8:33

One of the things too is I've always wondered, are you actually connecting to the people that you want to connect with? You know, and or is it going out to just random spamming people that you don't? You know, and I I know that I've gotten ads directed at me that I was like, why is this in my inbox? That I feel like of late that that's gotten better. I, you know, like, why is this in here in here? But one of the things that I I think though is like for people that are building that don't have a huge amount of money, they want to be sure that what you're spending actually is worth it, you know? And so that's always been something that's been really interesting to me because not everyone has a million-dollar budget a year for Facebook ads spend, you know?

SPEAKER_00 9:16

Yeah, for sure. I mean, you can get started on, as I said, 500 bucks. You don't need a lot to get started. And ultimately, if if someone was starting Facebook ads, I would say don't go with a huge budget. You don't need to spend a lot. Just start, even if you do it like 500 bucks or even if you put it out to an X amount per day, we're gonna spend $20 a day, $30 a day, $50 a day. And then just see what the results are like, right? Get the results first, and then you can spend more. Right. Once you've you've proven like, okay, it's this offer, it's this type of creative, and then we send people to this kind of page. You know, if you're doing lead generation and you're getting people to fill out a form, make sure you call those people in under five minutes of them filling out the form. Like there's your typical standard sales tactics and marketing tactics that apply to Facebook ads. And Facebook will give you the right people. But ultimately, if you're selling a physical product, you need your products and your page to be able to convert them. And if you're selling a service, you need your sales funnel to be able to convert them. Right. So Meta will give you the leads, but they're only as good as your back-end process. Which makes so much sense.

SPEAKER_02 10:26

Like you, you, you, you're paying to get in front of someone, but you still have to convert and you still have to be ready to sell and to to get them through the door and into your whatever it is that you're trying to sell to them, you know. But like I want to ask you this because I know that early on in my journey of creating content, uh, I made a lot of mistakes. What's one mistake that kills most beginners before they ever get a chance, before they even get a result to get that, you know, what they're what they're seeking.

SPEAKER_00 10:59

When it comes to organic content, you mean like maybe it's like creating YouTube content? Or yeah, I mean honestly, I think just starting, like uh most people just they they delay the start for two years and then they're two years behind. I think if like I started I started late, like I started in 2022. I wish I started in 2016, like I would have learned so much more. And once you actually start, then you can then you refine because it before you before you even start, you're just trying to refine on no data. You're like trying to figure out what you're gonna say, like just turn on the camera and talk. If you're already past that stage, right, and you're creating some videos and trying to get traction, I would say the research is important. Like you want to be able to, if you're doing YouTube especially, the the thumbnail, the title, the packaging needs to be what people are searching for, right? Because if you're a if you're a creator with very little traction, I would go towards where the market is already searching and try and position yourself within that search intent. Um, that's what we've been doing at my marketing agency. We've been doing YouTube for a few years, and we found that when we do that extra bit of research, when we look at what the market's actually searching for, and we basically tailor our content to that. We reverse engineer, we start with the title and thumbnail, then we report the content because we know that someone is gonna make a decision to watch based on what they see in the title and thumbnail, and not the other way around. Most people they film a video and then they're like, all right, what should the title be for this video? Or like, what should the thumbnail be? And I think it should be flipped. So that's like I think the main things that's gonna get you traction. There's obviously like a bunch of different things you can do once you have more data, but I think that would be the most important starting point.

SPEAKER_02 12:53

I love that. And I love the idea of reverse engineering, like you know what people are gonna want to watch, and then you kind of work backwards because it makes a lot of sense. I think everyone starts off with this this is what I want to be putting out there. And you know, you run into the difference of like, is this something people even care about? You know, is this something that they're gonna even engage with? You know, because they might, they might not. And you know, how much energy do you put into something creating something that people don't want to see? You know, that's something that you gotta think about. Um, you know, you went from a freelancer to a one million agency, like that's impressive. And how did you pull that off? You know, a one million plus agency, you know, I a lot of people dream about making a change like that. But what was it that really made the difference for you?

SPEAKER_00 13:39

I I think a lot of it was again just going back to having something that people want and something that people need. To give you the background, in freelancing, I was really just trying to learn, just trying to really understand like how to how do I actually run Facebook ads for other businesses? Because it was a lot of trial and error. Um, there was a lot of clients that I worked for free just to get experience. And that's that's the starting point is like, okay, now that I have some results under my belt that I can use to go and get other clients, that that was that was really the goal. The the goal was then to evolve into a company, to have other people on the team, to build something a lot bigger. And I think that the timing was good. You know, the by the point I switched from freelancer to agency was 2020, it was COVID, everyone was at home, e-commerce had this boom, and we focus on on working with e-commerce brands and selling products online. So it was good timing. We had some very good early clients that then referred a small business, and that kind of helped us get off the ground. I think sometimes you need that on your side. But you know, the there's obviously a ton of work that goes in behind the scenes. I feel like the past 10 years, most of my life has gone into building the business and sacrifice a lot and you know, all that stuff. But I think it just comes down to the fundamentals. Like we we sell, you know, Facebook ads to e-commerce brands. Every single e-commerce brand wants to be running Facebook ads. And even if they're running Facebook ads, they run into these bottlenecks where they need someone who has the expertise to come in and help them get to the next level. So if you're selling basically customers, right? Every business needs customers, then you're always gonna have people to sell to.

SPEAKER_02 15:24

I love that. One of the things too, and I find a niche that you always are gonna have customers is such an interesting thing because there is forever and always certain things that are gonna be needed in our world and in our, you know, in the commerce. You know, people are always gonna be looking to I mean, I don't know. I haven't actually even figured that out. What people are always gonna be looking for. But I do know successful companies are the ones that are out there sitting there asking that question and figuring that out, you know? And you know, one of the things too that I am fascinated by, and I'm fascinated by this because I've heard the doom and gloom about email for so long. But email, dude, it keeps on giving and it keeps on, you know, so it survived and it keeps giving back to businesses in a big way. You know, and most people have like say email marketing is dead, but I want to ask what you say about that because I don't know, man. It seems still to work to me.

SPEAKER_00 16:24

Yeah, the most important thing you can have is is your your owned audience. And email is your owned audience. You run ads on meta, your ad account could could get banned today. And and sometimes you have no say in in that. Like we we've had some crazy things happen, like for no reason, right? And sometimes it can, if you're reliant on that, that can really affect your business, right? So if you have an email list of thousand people, ten thousand people, whatever it is, hey, even if you have an email list of 50 people, it doesn't matter. It's your own list. You can send an email out today, and you'll know that that email is gonna get delivered to your list, and you can sell to that list, you can deliver value to that list. So it's I I think a lot of people overlook it. I don't know why. Um, it's always gonna be around and it's always a way to stay in touch with your customers. And it's also a personal, personal channel, right? Like they're on your email list for a reason, they trust you to some degree. And we've just found it it always pays dividends. For the brands that we work with, they're generating 30, 40, sometimes even 50% of their monthly revenue just from email. And that's even as we're spending hundreds of thousands of dollars a month on Meta. So yeah, I would say if if you do not have an email list for your business, or even if you're, let's just say you're you're a coach and you're selling coaching or you're doing something where you want people to buy, start building your email list today. And the way to build your email list would be give away something for free of value in return for an email. So for me, if I wanted to build my email list, I would give away free lead magnets. I would say, here's a 10-page document on how we help this brand go from 200k per month in revenue to a million per month in revenue. Here it is for free. We send them to a form, they enter their email, they get onto our email list, we give them what they signed up for, but then we can then email them in the future because they opted into receiving emails from us. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 18:27

And, you know, it's interesting too because um, you know, I have had so many email lists that I signed up for that um there are some that I've you know deleted, but there are so many that provided me so much value. Yeah, and I still have some that I stick with for years and years and years because I know that that is going to provide me value. This is one uh Eric Barker's email list, Barking Up the The Wrong Tree is his book. And the guy has all these these these great tips on success. And you know what? I've been on that, and I don't read every single one of them, but man, I I I pull them up when they come through, and I'm just like, I need to, I need to see the the the point. And he always and it always gets me back to his book, or if there's a new product, it's out. So it's like, I think there's so much power there still. And I think that it's really interesting to see how people can maximize that. But I want to circle back on another topic because you you've been talking about hiring and the changes to hiring with AI. You know, this is something that we had we talked about before the interview. Can you talk to me a little bit about that? How is AI changing the hiring landscape?

SPEAKER_00 19:35

Sure. A lot of companies are thinking about AI replacing humans. I don't see it that way. For my own company, I see it that we can actually keep everyone on a team, but give them the skills to use AI to double their output. And that just means as a business, we can double our capacity with the same team. Whereas some companies, even some companies I know, have like cut their workforce in half. But it's like, okay, but your your capacity is the same, right? It didn't really change anything. Um, or if anything, your capacity kind of shrinked a little bit. So that's my take. Um, I think there's a lot of big companies that are cutting workforce and using AI as an excuse for overhiring. Uh, that's another topic of conversation. Um, however, when it comes to looking into the future and who do you hire in this age of AI, if you're using tools like Claude Code, that can do so much. I think, and just this is just from my perspective and the way that we're doing it within my agency, is we're hiring people who are going to be the orchestrators of the AI tools. Because you can give the same AI tools and training to two people. One person can use them differently than the other person. Right? They apply it in different ways based on their experience and background. So if we can hire AI orchestrators, people who think in terms of systems and have experience and subject matter expertise within the area that we are focusing on, as we say, is copywriting, they can use AI to their advantage to be able to double, triple, 5x their output, right? And that that makes them more valuable as an individual. So companies, companies will never stop hiring people. That's my that's my opinion. Um I don't think AI will replace all jobs, but I do think that it's going to replace a lot of jobs. And people need to upskill to be able to use these AI tools to their advantage to make themselves more valuable. And as business owners, we look for those people because they're the ones that can come in and build a system. And we're paying one person for the output of three people, four people, five people. So that's what we're doing. And we are building our own internal systems with these AI tools so that we can also train our team and say, hey, We don't want to replace you. We want you to become better and stay relevant in your role by learning these tools. And I think that's yeah, that's just the mindset that we've adopted. It's worked well for us. Um and yeah, I think it's it's something that more business owners should be thinking about.

SPEAKER_02 22:18

I have some workflows that we use for AI for my team. And one of the areas that we specifically especially use is for music. My wife is a singer, and we are using, we write songs, but there was this really challenging thing where I would send a song outline like demo to a music producer and say, I want it to sound like this. And I would list these different people that I wanted it to sound like, and they would come back to me, and it sounded nothing like that. And it would be like maybe I'd say, go, go, you know, to here, and they would go over here. So what we were doing is using AI systems to plug it in there and then having it spit out some different demos, and then we send that to our music producer and say, This is the vibe we're going for. And now the AI is great because it can break it down, give us the stems, and the music producer can then go, I love this. We're gonna use this. I'm gonna use a human musician for these pieces. We're gonna do this for this, and it allowed us to supercharge our output, which is I think what everyone's looking for. And I mean, certainly, I think one of the things that people are having a hard time with is that there are people that are creating AI spam. Like, I know there are those people, like it is out there. I don't need to see any more videos of cats doing kung fu. Like, literally, I've seen enough. I've really seen enough that I'm kind of good with that. I don't need any more of those because they're driving the prices of my hard drives out. So let's let's stop some of that, you know. But like for the rest of it, like I think that I will honestly say without Chat GPT, it would have been hard for me to do what I've done with my business in the last year. Like, you know, chat, and now I'm loving Claude and I'm using it as a as a business coach to really work with me. I love Grok because Grok is the one that just doesn't like some, like the one it actually pushes back on me. I mean, ChatGPT and Claude are like, you can do it, that's a great idea. Grok is like, that's some bullshit, man. I don't think that that's a good idea, you know. And so I love it. But you know, when you can kind of pull from all these tools, they help you make more informed decisions. But like, that's the cool part. We still have our power of choice, you still have the ability to go do things. And when I empower my team members, and this is the thing, the other week I had uh a realization that the video editing arena is changing. And I talked to my team about it and I said, guys, things are shifting. We're gonna be doing less of this content and more of this content, but you're gonna have to learn different tools that can help you with this type of content because that's gonna be what it is. And it was interesting because about 50% of those people were like, Yeah, I don't want to learn those new tools, I don't want to change. And I immediately made note of that. And then the rest of the people were like, dude, sign me up, Mr. Sean. I want to learn these tools, I want to level up, I want to be the person who can use these tools to be even better and faster and all this stuff, and not just faster, but like be more creative to like use these tools to unleash their own creativity. And it was what happened was these people started getting more shifts because they were sliding into these new things that we had. And then all these people, like, oh, oh, I want to do that too. I was like, I'm sorry, like I already trained these other people on these tools, and I only had so many roles. I heard someone, and I always hear this, you know, AI is not gonna take your job as much as someone who's learned those AI tools probably will, you know, and I think that that's one of the things that just for me is, and that I think people use the term AI in a funny way. I'm gonna rewind on this too. A couple years ago, we didn't talk about AI, but you know, there were new computer techniques that came out. You know, people before were splicing film, like you want to make a video, you had to go and splice the film. And new technology came out, you know, Adobe Premiere and Final Cut Pro. These were these revolutionary things. And people, I don't want to learn how to do that. I want to splice film still. But you know what? Everyone started using these new tools. And I think that we we use AI as a catchword for these really advanced computer programs doing awesome things. But I think at the same time, it's just it's just new tech. Either you adapt and learn it or you don't. I think there's such a, I don't know, we we kind of create this like this aura around the word AI, but really it's just new tech, man. And we've been adapting to tech for years now, you know?

SPEAKER_00 26:40

I guess uh I'm curious to hear from your space, Sean. Like, why do you think we we get stuck in our ways? Like, why do you think is it awareness? Is it an awareness thing? Is it a little bit of like stubbornness? Like, because I mean we we've all been there, whether it's AI or not, it's like we kind of get stuck in our ways and we kind of like, no, no, this this is the way, and maybe it's a belief system. But I'm curious, like, yeah, why why do you think that is? And maybe what are some ways that we can stay aware to be like, no, like always question what you're doing so that you can always stay adaptive and relevant.

SPEAKER_02 27:16

So I'm gonna use a reference here that's gonna date me. I remember when I first moved to Vietnam, uh, the Nokia brick phone was the shit. Like 2001, it was everyone wanted to have that goddamn phone. People would straight up do anything for that phone. Like, and like now, if looking back, like you go, dude, wow, what really? And Nokia didn't have to do much marketing, they owned the market, you know. It was it was theirs. And then a couple years later, this phone company came out and they were like, hey, check this out. It's a flipping, like flippable phone, the Motorola Razor. And people are like, What the fuck? I remember people paying two grand, two thousand dollars for that road motor roller razor, you know. But I remember like I had another company phone, another phone brand at that time that I thought was interesting and good. And when I told people, like, well, why do you like that? Well, because it's Nokia. I was like, but I think we get and then you know, and then Blackberry came on. And dude, I remember Blackberry, people worship the Blackberry, you know, but those early adopters, it's that whole blue ocean, red ocean thing. I think we have a hard time seeing or stepping into that, you know. I remember when um I remember when Netflix was switching over from DVD to streaming, and people were like, God damn it, Netflix, why can't you just keep our DVDs coming? You know? And because it was like they would ship the DVD to your house. And like people were pissed off that they charged a dollar more for the streaming. And like the company was like, you know what, streaming is kind of the future. People are like, we want our DVDs. There was this great article that I read about music through the ages, and it was like talking about all of the instruments that were like vilified, and it was like it was really funny because like it's in classical music times, they're like, the piano, what is this thing? This doesn't deserve to be around classical music. And then they like there was like a time where like the fucking violin, what is the violin doing here? You know, and now we think like those are classical instruments, right? But at one point in time, they were just avant-garde and new and rejected. You think about it this way, right? We're going through this huge transition of a digital transition that started in the what 70s, 60s, 70s with computer tech. We're still in this massive revolution. I think one of the times that was equally massive shift was about 120 years ago. And I think that it's the only thing that you can compare our AI shift to. And that was the invention of the automobile. Now, when the car came along, think about it. What was one of the most common jobs around the world? It was the farrier and the blacksmith, the people that were trimming horse hoofs. How many blacksmiths do you see around? Not many, you know, it's a it's a thing that people still do in the horse community, it's still done. But that was one of the most common jobs. That's the reason this the name Smith is so damn common, is because people were blacksmiths. Now, if you went back to those people that were blacksmiths and said, you know what, stuff's gonna change. They would be terrified and they would push back against cars and everything. But you know, none of those people could foresee. Hang on, you go to one of those people's, all right, night 1890 guy, I got this idea for you. All right, you're gonna tell your grandkids about this, it's gonna be big. What is it? Drive through car washes. I can't even comprehend what that is, man. You know, but like it's a thing, man. It's a thing that people still do, drive through car washes, you know? And the there were the people at that before the car was invented, but have no frame of reference for that. And I think we're going through something similar. And I think that we're just resistant to change because change is scary. I think that's as simple as it comes. Is it scary? And I think you have to be open to it. And for me, I try to surround myself with people that are open to new things. I remember when my editors were like, Mr. Sean, we need to use Cap Cut. I was like, fuck that. You know, I was like, it's like such a now. I'm like, dude, I'm not a huge like, like I don't use it a ton, but I love what they can do with it. Like they're doing some amazing things, and I'm absolutely blown away with like we'll we'll use all of the different tools that we have access to. And certainly I'm the type that I'll push back if I think something's not there yet. Like for a lot of the video editing uh AI stuff, I don't think it's there yet. I think it will be. I think it's gonna be phenomenal, but I think that it's still kind of cumbersome, but that just means, you know, use it. Like, I don't like AI edits for videos, but I love the AI tools. Like, I love the the auto trimming, I love some of the auto subtitling. I dude, that stuff's great. Keep giving me the tools, and that's where I think I think that we're headed more into a tool era that the humans are still gonna be involved, but we're gonna get more tools. Like, think about cars, like auto, you know, like AI driving. Um, certainly there's gonna be times where people want the car to drive them, but I mean, it's kind of fun still to drive a car. I love still editing video, but I love these tools that can come along with my wife. You know, we look at one of the apps that's really great is Suno. Suno has all of these AI tools. And I think that there's gonna be people that want to do just pure generation, and that's great for you. But I think there's still people that are gonna want to be able to, like, Suno Studio is the thing they're really pushing. It's like a DAW that allows you to like, hey, you can't afford a full orchestra. We've got you. We can help you generate that. And then suddenly this singer-songwriter from Kentucky that doesn't have access to all of these musicians can sit there and go, dude, I've got a full band right now.

SPEAKER_00 33:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:07

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 33:09

So yeah. It's really interesting. Just as you're speaking, it reminds me so much of all these kind of revolutions that you're talking about, right? Like whether it's the automobile, right? And it's like Henry Ford saying, if I ask customers what they want, they would have told me faster horses, right? A lot of times customers can't foresee the future. And I think for the for the people working as well, they will adapt, right? Like, we're not a lot of people are very um negative about the future. And like AI is going to take all of our jobs and all this stuff. And it's humans will find new ways to stay relevant. AI, the revolution always brings you brand new roles that were never needed before the revolution, right? Just like you were saying, the people that were blacksmiths, they found a way to use their skills and experience in another form, right? Yep. And I think it's, you know, if you if you look now at AI, customer support, right? Customer support representatives are becoming less and less required. Right. They're still, they're still needed, but nowhere near as much as five, 10 years ago. Now, those customer support representatives, like, what do you think they're doing? They're probably learning something else. They're probably learning how to use the AI that helps solve more customer support tickets, right? They're probably going into other fields. That's what's going to happen. And I think it's just every time you go through one of these waves, it almost levels the playing field a little bit. And it requires us to find new ways to create more value for the marketplace. So whether it's, you know, as you were saying, a DAW leveling the playing field and getting, giving more people access, it means that as a musician, as an artist, you need to find ways to deliver other value like to the marketplace. If if you have more competition, it means that you have to be more creative. You have to find new things. Okay, what are people going to be interested in? It's the same in business. It's the same as if you're working for a company. And I think it's just going to be very interesting to see how this plays out over the next five years because I think this would be the biggest revolution yet. You know, we have the internet and you combine AR on top of that, and who knows what else comes after this. So yeah, I think as as long as we keep that in mind. Um, and like you were saying, whenever a new tool comes out, test it. Even if it's not good, you can you can discard it. But if you don't test it, you might have missed out on that new tool that becomes a thing. And I think being an early adopter is is a great thing, right? If you if you develop the habit to become an early adopter of these tools, then you are by default going to be ahead.

SPEAKER_02 35:54

100%. 100%. One of the things, too, that I think is um really important with that is like you said, becoming the early adopter and be it open to to learning. Like it's that beginner's mind. I um I have been fighting a little bit of the shifts with AI. And then suddenly I had this uh email from University of the People. I had been trying to help one of my friends get in there, and I saw this new bachelor's in computer science. And I was like interested. And I looked at it and I said, I wonder if I could do this program from the simple mindset I love learning too. I would be a student for life, of the simple idea of looking at systems and learning about that. Because I did my MBA and I learned about business. I have my own company. I was like, what if I did this to sit there and learn about these systems and sit there and learn about maybe how can I create the next SAS? You know, how could I maybe I create the next tool that helps do this? You know, it's like instead of fighting it, well, let's learn about these systems. Let's learn about these tools and see what they are. And if nothing else, I just have a lot of fun learning, you know? So at the end of the day, it's great. And I think that my point being, the other day my daughter came up to me. She has a YouTube channel, I've been running it and we we were doing great, and then the algorithm changed and our numbers dropped off because YouTube started going a different direction. And my daughter said, I know how to get a lot of views, and I in my head wanted to say, No, you don't. You're 10. You don't know what you're talking about. But then I sat there and I was like, hang on, who watches YouTube all the time? Her. Who knows the type of content that is being consumed by people her age, which is what her channel is aimed for? Her. And I listened and I sat there and I said, Okay, I like what you're saying. And she was like, we need to do more challenges. You know, these people I watch, they give away a lot of money. I said, Well, what could we do challenge-wise, that's more in line with your channel? Like, we're doing STEM and animals and stuff like that. And she's like, I don't know. And I said, Well, how about we do this? We put together some ideas last week, or how Saturday, we had I know a guy who sells animals, and he has like a little mini zoo as well. And he brought over about 12 animals, and we had scorpions and snakes and uh tarantulas and all types of cool stuff in our house. And we made videos about it, and like and we did all these challenges, like we blindfolded each other to see who could guess what the animal was by describing it, you know, and it was fun, but it took me going all right, maybe this 10-year-old 10-year-old knows better than I do, and we'll see what happens with the video, but you know, pivot, pivot and see where you can go.

SPEAKER_00 38:42

That it's such a great mindset. I I think one thing I was talking about with my business partner and we're building a software together, and it's I think sometimes we we like we love to overanalyze. I think as soon as the brain gets involved, everything it comes up with a reason for like why you can't do this and why this is more complex. And like it loves to, I mean, my brain especially. I I love to put things in boxes and it's very structured. And like I have a plan for my plan, you know. I my favorite thing to do on a Sunday evening is like plan the week. I get all the books and my calendar. Sounds weird, but if if you're like me, then you know, you'll you'll know what I'm uh know what I'm talking about. I know, dude. I know 100% you're sorry. Yeah. So we were talking about this, and we were saying, you know, some of the best breakthroughs have been when we leave the house, we go in nature, play golf, do whatever, do something that's like unrelated. And we just come back, and almost like the problem that we're trying to solve just the the solution just presents itself. And it's like we didn't have to sit down and like figure out like complex algorithms and stuff. Like all the answers that we need are just there, but sometimes we just overanalyze, right? Or we try to get in our own head. And we don't just listen to the answers from, like you were saying, whether it's your 10-year-old daughter or whether it's someone who just says something in passing, right, that they don't even know what you're working on. And I think that having that open mind is is key and it allows you to be creative. And I think creativity and innovation is the key to solving the problems and ultimately getting what you want, right? Like if you have goals, I think just getting there is a lot of it just comes down to the decisions that you make. I know I I'm one of the worst at like overanalyzing and wanting to make it more complex than it actually is. And I'm trying to unlearn that, right? And I think a lot of the success is simplifying, right? And unlearning how to like overanalyze things.

SPEAKER_02 40:43

Well, it's it it goes back. I mean, this is like Zen and the art of content, man. I originally was, I moved to Asia because I studied Zen Buddhism and I studied Eastern philosophy and I was a martial artist. And the idea of the motion, the beginner's mind. And it's like every day the master tries to unlearn one thing, and you try to get back to that beginner state where imagine that you walked into a room and you didn't know anything that was happening. And then you look at what people are doing and you go, wow, what's a problem? What might be a solution for that? And if you have zero preconceived ideas, your solution might be the magic bullet that this team has been looking for, you know, but you have to come in with an absolutely zero preconceived ideas in this this super clear mindset, you know? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:38

It's it's hard, like again, because uh as someone hearing this, it's the logical brain immediately gets involved, right? Yep. I I can't remember who who came up with this, but it's like it's a five-second rule. Like, as soon as you spend more than five seconds thinking about it, your brain will come up with ways that it's not possible, it makes it more complex than it actually is, and it's actually gonna lead you to a decision that takes you further away from the path that you actually want to be on. So a lot of the times, like people's intuition and their gut feel is a lot stronger than they actually feel, right? And they don't trust it. And I think we we need to get closer to be able to trust like trusting that more and almost like going with the heart, going with the gut, is going to lead you to the right path. That that's something that has been extremely difficult for me, but I think it's um and I have mentors helping me helping me with this because I think it's so important. Being able to get use that as a default, and yeah, uh again, super difficult for me because of my personality, but yeah, it's something that I'm I'm really working on. I love that.

SPEAKER_02 42:49

Well, I wanted to ask you this because you have a a really good mindset and a deeper level was of wisdom that I I I think that more people would be lucky to have that. But let me ask you this if you lost every client tomorrow and had to start over, what would you do in week one?

SPEAKER_00 43:04

I would put myself out there with content, build a brand. This is assuming obviously that I still had the knowledge and the experience that I gained over the the decade. Um and I would use use distribution, YouTube, LinkedIn, X, Instagram to establish a base of authority and get clients that way. And and that's how I've been doing it the past few years. Most of our clients do come through YouTube. So it does work. And yeah, I wish I would have started earlier. So that's definitely the first thing that I would do. That's awesome, man.

SPEAKER_02 43:42

Well, I need to say that I I want to say that this has been awesome. But where can people look up more about you and what you do?

SPEAKER_00 43:50

Sure, you can go to YouTube and type in Jordan Hayes. There'll probably be a few Jordan Hayes. Um, but yeah, my YouTube channel is focused around e commerce and growing brands and Facebook ads and e email marketing. So if you want to delve more into those topics, YouTube channel is the way to go. If you want to follow my journey with building software for helping other companies hiring, and if you run a business and you want to hire people in South America, Southeast Asia, South Africa, Eastern Europe, those kinds of countries, then you can find me on LinkedIn at Jordan Hayes as well. And maybe Sean, we can you know put the links down below, which make it easier for the viewers to find. If you have any questions, reach out. I always love talking to other people, just whether you're in business, whether you're creative, regardless of what you're doing. You know, I I feel extremely grateful for being where I am and I want to to help others as much as possible as well. So yeah, uh here to help.