Mastering the Slow Burn | Matthew Jones | Full Battery Media

In this episode, I sit down with Matthew "Mojo" Jones, founder and CEO of Rainbow Creative, a podcast production company behind some of the most impactful shows in the space, from Navigating Narcissism with Dr. Ramani to the School of Greatness with Lewis Howes to the launch and season 1 through the launch of Season 2 of “Being Jewish with Jonah Platt”, the number one Jewish podcast in the world.

Mojo shares how a filmmaker background and a willingness to just figure it out led him to build a company that has produced over 30 shows and now runs close to 20 active productions at once. We talk about what separates podcasts that blow up from the ones that quietly die, why consistency will always outperform talent alone, and how content quality, not production budget, is still the single biggest factor in whether a show survives.

What is one story or message you have been sitting on that you know the world needs to hear, and what has been stopping you from sharing it?

Transcript

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Um, I was fortunate to be one of the lead producers on the School of Greatness with Lewis House. And it was on that show that it really took me to the next level because I was able to learn how to run an eight-figure show. And I was doing everything. I was in the studio, shooting the photography, working on the guest prep, literally filming it, audio, transferring the footage, managing post-production, and really learning YouTube. And that was the biggest thing. Like I learned YouTube and helped grow their channel from it was getting like a million downloads a week to 15 million downloads a week in like a little bit less than a year. So I basically took that school of greatness and I was impressed around all these great people. I mean, obviously, I'll be influenced by them as you know, an entrepreneur and a founder. And then I took that formula and built my company and really applied that to every show, big or small. And it helps all shows reach a level of success. But um, I I have an awesome guest with me today who's got a hell of a story. Can you introduce yourself and tell people who you are and a little bit about what you do? Yeah, my name is Matthew Mojo Jones. I go by Mojo, and I'm a podcast executive producer and founder and CEO of my company, Rainbow Creative. I've been doing um podcasting for six years. Prior to that, I was a filmmaker and worked in corporate, and this is my life's work. That's awesome, man. How did you get started down this path? What was it that got you going down a path of media and communications? Yeah, definitely. I mean, as a kid, like my dad buying me a camera at 17 years old to make films. Um, so that was like the first thing. And, you know, I was making films in high school and college and really did the film degree. So for me, like when I was going into film, I thought it would be like the fun like career because you're just making art. But instead, it's actually quite different. I learned how to fundraise at my like sophomore film and really like learn about the business of it. So for me, I've just always been a creative person, but also have um business acumen and a mindset. So for this, and I come from a family of entrepreneurs, so it's just really in me. So it's just really natural for me to have a dream to make a company. But when I was in college, I was focusing on, you know, being a director with a three-picture deal, and that never happened. Um, so I just kept going. I worked in corporate for a while, and it was actually um in the in 2020 at the pandemic was when I shifted to podcasting. Now Rainbow Creative has been podcasting for six years, but it's been around for eight. And the original concept of the company was to be a community of creators, of editors, DPs, and all these people where they can get content. Because what I found was that I had a lot of connections and I was a great connector, and everybody wanted me to produce something. And I was like, well, I can produce anything, but I can't do it all. What if there was a place where creatives could come together to do that? So that's how Rainbow Creative was founded. And we did a lot of videos, but one-off videos isn't sustainable. And I actually fell into podcasting in 2020. I was working um like at the pandemic, doing BD for a company, and they they said they wanted to do a podcast, and they said, Can you produce it? I was like, sure, I can produce anything, I'll learn. And I did the show called The Brand Talks, where I was a producer and co-host and just really learned from that. And from that experience, I literally just started posting it on LinkedIn and Instagram, and I got people coming to me. And fast forward to my first year on um with a part-time like producing job, I was like, I'm not going back corporate. I would do part-time producing and focus on rainbow and podcasts. I got had like 10 shows, and then the second year I just kept doing it, and then the third year, I would I took a didn't take a break from Rainbow, but just did less shows because I got two network opportunities. So I was able to work on the Red Table Talk Podcast, Navigating Narcissism as a showrunner on that show for two seasons, and it's an iconic show with Red Table Talk and produced by Red Table Talk Podcast with Dr. Romini, and it's still touching and healing so many people, and it's so great to see. And then at the end of that contract, that two seasons, they didn't renew it. Um, I was fortunate to be one of the lead producers on the School of Greatness with Lewis House. And it was on that show that it really took me to the next level because I was able to learn how to run an eight-figure show. And I was doing everything. I was in the studio, shooting the photography, working on the guest prep, literally filming it, audio, transferring the footage, managing post-production, and really learning YouTube. And that was the biggest thing. Like I learned YouTube and helped grow their channel from it was getting like a million downloads a week to 15 million downloads a week in like a little bit less than a year. So I basically took that school of greatness and I was impressed around all these great people. I mean, obviously, I'll be influenced by them as you know, an entrepreneur and a founder, and then I took that formula and built my company and really applied that to every show, big or small, and it helps all shows reach a level of success. I love that, man. One of the things, too, that is interesting, too, is because and you touched on this, like the uh resilience needed to keep at this game, you know, and like the resilience game in content. I had a a guest come on uh last week and he he messaged me this morning because a company had reached out to him, and the company wasn't shady, but they were doing an interesting thing, and they were reaching out to older people who had written books and said, Hey, we're gonna sign you to a book deal, uh to a deal to get distribution rights to your documentary, and they were doing all these documentaries for people, and when I reached out to him, uh he's like, What is it? Talk to me about this, and I said, Well, they've been flagged a couple times for like not necessarily doing what they say, but I said, I want to ask you this. What is it that you want to do? Do you want to have like one big documentary that you do, or even a 15-minute documentary, or do you want to be, you know, making regular content? Do you want to be? He's like, you know what? I don't know what I want. And I said, then slow down and slow down. Because at this point in time, like this game, once you get into it, it takes a lot. It takes a lot to keep going, it takes a lot to maintain a podcast or a YouTube channel or any TikTok, it takes a lot of energy. And I want to hear about from you about how do you find that resilience to keep showing up? That is a good question. Um for my people, for my team members, you know, um every deal that I do gets them work. You know, I have team members all across the country, all across the world, who are able to, you know, have these opportunities to support their lives off of something I have had the opportunity to create and give to them. So it first starts with my team. You know, I love my team so much. I've had like one of I've had my editor, Nathan, for four years, working part-time and full-time, and it just goes back and forth depending on the deals. And he's beloved by all of our clients. I've really seen him grow and shine. I have Omar, who's based in Egypt, who I worked with a different company, and just seeing him really dive in and working on some really huge shows with people is just a blessing to see. You know, my producers, my executive team, that's been the biggest change this year. My CFO and new fractional COO and IT and business advisors, like they all support me. But at the end of the day, you know, I do it for my people first, but but then who's listening? You know, so it's the lives that were impacting. So for me, I could wake up stressed about like this, that, and the other. But what I do know is like go back to our mission statement, is to facilitate meaningful conversations that promote healing and radical change. So when I shake it off, when I get my coffee, I do my workout, or you know, just whatever, I know that at the end of the day, no matter how hard it is to make a show, somebody's gonna be listening to that episode and they'll have the tools to, oh, this is what I should do to like ask my doctor the right questions. Like the first show that allowed me to go full-time was with my cousin Shelly Banks, with a show called Call C. We do have a voice. So everybody before Jonah Platt, Gabby Reese, Heather and Terry DuBro, like everybody was Shelly Turner who invested in me. Um, and that show just allowed me to quit my full-time job at the School of Greatness, go with it. And what was so interesting about it, I mean, she's a three-time breast cancer survivor. And the whole concept of the show that I helped make with her was, you know, to share women's stories, specifically black women's stories, because they're so disenfranchised with, you know, the medical world and everything, to help them speak up for themselves by, you know, sharing their voices. Like I remember we had Ananda Lewis, the really famous VJ, on the show. She was stage four cancer. I met her in person, and you would never know. And we have that interview. It's one of the last recorded interviews, you know, that we have. And I remember when she passed, I was traveling and I saw it come up, and I immediately started weeping. And that's when I knew the mission of the company. It was to share the stories of Ananda Lewis for people to hear her story. And I'm getting emotional when we're just talking about it because it's like she was so vibrant and she chose not to do the chemo because she wanted to live her, you know, last years as thriving as she could. And although she passed way too early, we have a message from her that people can take and make the right decisions. And it just compounds on the over 30 shows that we've produced, you know, and a lot of the different things from business advice to yes, a lot of health, some comedies, you know, and and especially being Jewish with Jonah Platt, like that show, we started from the ground up. And when I I did season one, um, 30 Minute Mentira show and helped launch season two with them, and that became the number one Jewish podcast in the world. Well, think about that. You know, to make a show about pride for Jewish people in the last three years, about what everything happened with October 7th to get to that level. The fact that me and my team were able to have a piece of that, like be a part of that was great. I remember the season um, the episode 40 of season one, Jonah started it off with a monologue. It was an interview with his mom, which was bad. And he started off as a monologue where he just like read the comments of people and they were talking about how they like listened to the show and now they are able to speak up in their communities and do all these things. That has real impact. So that's what gets me up every day. So, with all the stuff that happened with my business last year, with a lot of operational and like all these things, you know, I don't stop going because I know that this work has the impact on people's lives. So that's what gets me up every day. 12, 14 hour days, I don't care. You know, I don't have a life. I watch a TV show in like a year and a half, and I don't care. One day I'll be able to. So I understand that, man. Well, it leads me to ask a question like, you know, people want to make great content, but you know, what actually makes content or a podcast good? Like, you know, it might get be fun, but what makes it impactful? You know, because I think you're touching on that a little bit as well. Like something that has it's not just that it resonates, but has a has a purpose and has a mission, you know, sounds like what you're saying. It at the end of the day, it comes down to the content, you know. Like people like there's some channels that the it's not crazy produced or expensive, but people love it. You know, like I remember I watched a show called Tiger Sisters and I had the opportunity to meet them. And when I saw their show, they were like filming it in their apartment and they edited it themselves, and it was just like raw informative information for people, and it blew up to be the number one of the number one like business podcasts on Spotify. And now they've elevated to an even higher level, which is amazing. Like people just want to focus on the content, you know, they're hungry for it. So when you start there, you know, then you can build everything around it. So start with the content first. If you don't have a good idea that's gonna stand out, um, last out I saw there were 840,000 active podcasts, it's probably a million. Well, how are you gonna stand out? Why should somebody care to listen, you know, on their walks, on their drives and everything? So first focus on that. Focus on the value that you're gonna bring people, focus on your why, and then figure out the production piece. You only have, you know, you want to do it yourself. There's tons of resources to do it yourself. You want to hire a company? Well, start saving up. I remember I had the show called Um The Peaches Podcasts. Um, and I've I was able to find this lead because I spoke at the um Black Atlanta Podcast Festival and I did this course on getting started to make your own podcasts. Well, um, Misha, she worked at, you know, a retail job, saved up her money, and then like I helped her launch the show. She did that. Like, that's amazing. She focused on the concept. We did it at, you know, something like she was able to afford, and they were able to make a show. So just really focus on the content, do it yourself. There's no barrier in podcasting that's to do it yourself, but do it well. Don't waste your time. You know, watch the YouTube videos, read the Mr. Beast Manifesto, like you can do it yourself. But if you want the resources, um, well, you can go to Rainbow Creative, but if you want the resources, you can um like reach out to or with Sean's company or any company that works for you um to help you to do it to be the talent, but you know, focus on the content because at the end of the day, it's not worth your time to do it otherwise. Right. The guy that um that that team was reaching out to this morning had such a beautiful story. And I said, you know, if you want to tell your story, tell your story, but find people that can help you tell your story authentically. And you know, it's like like you said, there are so many teams out there, dude. You I I love what you're putting out, and I know that for the people I work with, it's people that we resonate with, that have a story that we resonate with. Like, I don't know about you, but I I don't take every single client. I want to get people that have stories that I'm because if we're putting in my team's putting in a ton of work on something, I want it to be something that I find powerful and I think the world needs to see, you know. And I mean, I'm not saying that you shouldn't, I uh that not everyone should tell their story. Like to tell your story, dude. Everyone should have something to say, but it doesn't mean that I'm the right fit for it, too. And the thing is, too, um with those stories, like if it's something that you wake up and you feel like you need to scream from a rooftop, find a way to tell that story. And there are so many ways that you can do it now, yeah, right. And that in and I think that you know, my second question is why do some podcasts blow up and others just sit there with no listeners? But you know, I think that we're kind of already answering that. You know what I mean? Yeah, I mean, it's well, one is the content, but it comes down to consistency. You know, I've had shows that I've tried to grow that haven't been consistent, and there's nothing I can do about that. You know, I mean, there's only so much, there's only so much. It's not nothing I can do about that. We're gonna grow we're really good at growing shows, but to really get to the level of these top podcasters, like with Lewis, we were recording six, sometimes more episodes a week. Yeah, releasing two videos, four audios a week. If you really want it, you have to commit to it and just try it. You know, try it for six months, try it for three months, try it for a year, and if it doesn't work, then what's the problem? Is it the content the problem? You can figure out the problem, but if you stay consistent, you will succeed. Like, that's a dinner thing. You have to be relentless, and that's why I tell people like a lot of people hire you, not because uh we just know what we do, we do, but we should be hired because we'll keep you going and we'll help you keep showing up. And that's the thing, like you you need to work with someone who's not just gonna make you a video, anyone can make a video. There's a lot of people. I I know high school kids that can make you a beautiful video, but you need to find people that can help you keep showing up because the consistency, consistency compounds, consistency compounds, and like commodity is what you get out of it, yeah. Right? I I yesterday four podcast episodes filmed today, five, tomorrow, five, uh, Saturday, three. And like that's how I roll because I'm I'm I have four of my own podcasts, and people go, wow, that's a lot of work. And it's like, it is, but I also I have a team that supports me. I schedule it so that it is. I mean, I'm getting my exercise in, I'm at the gym, I schedule family time, I schedule my business time, I make sure I nap in the middle of the day, and like I'm just really regimented about it. Because if you're not, like you'll you'll burn out. And I think that that's one of the things too, that you have to find a way to balance it, you know. But like, I want to ask you this because you've helped people not just start, not just grow, but succeed with podcasting with media. If a person started a podcast tomorrow, what's the first thing you'd tell them not to mess up or just to do right? Well, one I would say don't overthink it. Um, because sometimes people get overthink it and then they get scared. Um I'd say, um, once you land on it, just go. And then when you watch it, you know, adjust. So, like I would what I would say is somebody starting, I would do like, and we do this a lot for new shows, is like a pilot and a test episode, and then send it to some friends and get some feedback. And send it to your friend who will call you out on bullshit or say something that's bad. So send it to them first, you know, and then also send it to your mom who's gonna love it. Like, send it to both, and then see what the feedback is. And if the feedback is good, don't shy away from it. Just try it again, just keep on going. Um, stay curious. You know, I think is the key thing when starting a podcast is you have to stay curious, and then also it's not just starting the show, it goes back to the confidence in yourself. So when you're doing it, you know, just imposter syndrome and everything stops when you take action. So when you start like speaking up for yourself and like learning all those things and sharing your voice, what's stopping you from being the next best podcaster? Every single one of them start it where you started. So I would say, you know, um, do a pilot, shop it around like with friends, um do some research on how you can stand out, and then just go and just do it. And then if it, you know, if it stops, at least you tried. Because at the end of the day, you're gonna regret it more so if you didn't try. But what if you try? And what if people see it? And what if you get a sponsor? And what if you land that get guest? That what if can be a reality if you just start. I love what you just said. My wife and I um uh I'm working on an album with her, and we have a new song. She's a famous singer here in Vietnam, and I'm I I I hired uh one of my friends who's a songwriter in the US, uh, who's an amazing songwriter in the US, not just a songwriter, but absolutely phenomenal songwriter, um, to write uh an album for her. And one of the songs is titled What If? And the what if it all works out? What if it all works out, you know? And I think that one of the things too is that people go in nervous. And I think that those nerves shut people down, it clamps down your creativity. And you go, you gotta sit there. I mean, certainly, yes, a lot of podcasts don't get where they want to be, but what if it did? And if you can go into that inspiration of like the other day, I had someone comment on my page and I was feeling really down. And uh the person commented, hey, the next Stephen Mitchell, everyone. And I was just like, you know, or Stephen Bartlett, not Stephen Mitchell, Stephen Mitchell's a great author. Stephen Bartlett, I was just like, wow, dude, that what a heck of a compliment. I felt blown away that someone would let's say that. And I was just like, wow, thank you. I'm not Stephen Bartlett, he is Stephen Bartlett, I'm Sean Trace, and I'm happy being Sean Trace. But you know what? The idea of being able to be someone who inspires people is huge. And what if you became that next big person? It's there and you have the potential, but you gotta put the steps in front of each other. And that leads to the next question because you talked about overthinking it. And I think one of the dangers is that people feel that they need to level up too fast. And I want to ask you do people really need expensive gear to sound professional, or can they get away with something simple? I've probably bought and have my clients buy Blue Yetis for the past six years, and they're like probably on sale for $70 on Amazon. Step one. You know, so like what is that? A eat a nice dinner out on a weekend? You know, you can get a 2K camera, you can start recording on Riverside for 20 bucks a month. Like it does not take a lot to do it. Because remember, at the end of the day, it's the content. But you can get a good mic. You can get like a good camera. You can put some cool lights behind you. You probably have a lot of lights. How much are ring lights? $10 now or $20 now on Amazon. You know, you put that little bit of effort in, then you're gonna be excited to record. Oh, you get to use your mic, you get to put on your ring light, and you get to do all these things. It doesn't take a lot. Um, but you know, yes, it comes to story, but remember you're competing against a lot of people. People will turn away if it looks like crap, no matter how good it is. Like, I remember at one point, like I was I was listening to like some like a smartless episode once, and Matthew McConaughey was in his car. The only reason why I listened to it was Matthew McConaughey, but if it was anybody else, I would have turned it off. So it's like you can invest in the right equipment, and there's so many tools, like you know, Adobe Podcast, you can enhance something where like it doesn't even sound like there's traffic. Just script is the most one of the most powerful tools in podcasting that can help you write your show notes, edit out the ums for you. You know, Riverside edits for you. They have a magic episode where you literally just click a button and it edits it for you, even adding an opening clip. There is no excuse, you know. There's so many tools at your disposal to do it well. You just have to find the resources to do it. And I just gave you the resources to script. Riverside, get a mic, get going. So the the assets are the tools are there, and I think that that's where I I love to hear is just helping people find their voice. You just have to get out there and do it. Like you can totally do this yourself. And I think that one of the things that I tell people though is just be ready for growth. And when growth comes along, there's gonna be a time where I I love one of the things that I love helping people do is I love helping YouTubers who've been doing it themselves, and they're just like, All right, because we one of the focuses of my company, we do a lot of kids' content because my daughter's YouTube channel, Ilani's Little World, we're doing a lot of great kids content, and these people that are just like, I'm tired of doing this myself 30 hours a week, and you know, just editing their own content, and they're like, Man, it's not, and they're not seeing the numbers yet to make the financial return. And I'm just like, but you know, you can offload that and get some help with it, you know. Then that's one of the things because when you start growing, people don't necessarily how know how to do that. And I want to ask you that because, like, what do most people get wrong about growing the podcast and growing their audience? They think it's gonna happen overnight, right? It's not, and then they also um I think they discount incremental growth, and then also if they see 100 people, they'll be like, oh, that's a failure, but that's a hundred people. Have you ever seen a hundred people in a room? Imagine a hundred people listening to your podcast, and then next time 125, next time 150, and then on that 150, they'll go back to the first episode and they grow from there, and then you find a shorts. It's a it's a burn, it's a slow burn, it could be a fast burn. Um, but you know, but you also get a lot of data. You know, YouTube tells you where people are dropping off, it tells people where you know they're spiking, it tells it tells you how long they're listening, and then you can adjust from there. You just start it first. I mean, there's no like perfect length. The perfect length is the amount of time it takes you to like just have a good conversation. So I think what people get wrong about growing an audience is when they discount, like even if you're getting 20 listeners, 100 listeners, 200 listeners, those those are still 100, 200 people. They mean something. Um, and you know, I feel like a lot of times if they don't see growth overnight, especially like within the first month, they'll completely stop. But if you stay consistent, get good cont continue to make your good content and look at the data that YouTube gives you and all these, even Apple gives you the resources of showing the average like um consumption rate. When you look at that, you can inform how you do it um ongoing. But I remember the beginning, Jonah's show, which now gets tens of thousands of views a week, it was getting a couple hundred when we started, and we just kept being consistent and looked at the data and kept on adjusting. You know, you just have to continue to be consistent about it and don't feel discouraged if you know 100 people are listening to your episode in the second month. That's a hundred people, you know, um, because it will grow if you just stay consistent about it. And then also the the thing about benchmarks, especially when it comes to numbers, it's like of course, a million views is amazing, but also 20,000 views could be amazing for you. And like, what's that value you're getting out of that 20,000? If you're doing a show where you like you're a therapist or something, and out of those 20,000 views or even 500 views, you're getting leads. That's valuable leads, you know. Um, and you can continue to grow out of it. It's like the numbers and podcasts is really relative on your goals and your accomplishments. I mean, there is the benchmark of the amount of numbers it takes to get a CPM for it to make sense and sponsors. We do we do that a lot, obviously. Um, but there's we have clients that are doing it for the passion and the love, you know, and even those shows are like really exploding a lot of times. Um, but at the end of the day, it's like they're doing it for the message, they're doing it for the 100 to 10,000 to 100,000 people. Like I have the show called Soul Unique that like ebbs and flows, and one of the shows is like I think maybe at a 180,000 at his 10th episode, like he just was consistent, you know. So that's what I would say. Don't be discouraged, um, stay consistent, and and every view matters is what I would say. I love that. I love that because every view does matter, and people don't think about this enough. Like if you are reaching a thousand people, that's awesome. If you're reaching a hundred thousand, that's awesome. If you're reaching ten, that's awesome. Because those ten people, you are impacting their life, you know, they might be showing up week after week, and you don't even know it, and you're the one person that's keeping them going. You are the thing that is helping them saying, I'm gonna keep showing up and I'm gonna make this into something, you know. And and it it's interesting to me because I want to ask a question because I I think I have an answer, but for that, is it more important to be entertaining or helpful when making your content? I have my opinion, but I'd love to hear yours. I think it depends on like what you're doing. Um, I think it should be a mix. Like, we have a new show called The Match Shrink with Dr. G launching um soon, and he's a 75-year-old, really accomplished, you know, therapist and sorry, a psychiatrist, and has a sub stack and all these things. And a lot of his stuff is really just informative, but he has like a goofy etch to it. It's called the Mad Shrink, and we have like spooky music, but it's informative. It's like I would say blend the two if as much as you can, you know, because nobody, if somebody's watching something, because people watch YouTube more than television now, it has to be entertaining. But then there's also those moments where it can be informative as well. Just don't have it be dry. So I think it just needs to have a entertainment factor, and the entertainment factor could be like my favorite podcast right now is Layla Hermozzi's podcast build, and it's just informative. When you watch the YouTube, there's so many amazing graphics that I'm learning from it, it's entertaining to me. So, you know, when she adds fun stories and things like that. So um, I would say add entertaining, like, because people like listening to humans, um, but just make sure it like fits within your market too. I love that. I love that a lot, man. I I think that you you have to have a balance of both. If you're not entertaining, people don't come back. But if you don't have a soulful message, then they don't have a reason to stay, you know, they don't have a reason to be there. And so I think that that balance is is so important. Like it, you know, I want to ask you this too, because what's everyone like a lot of people have podcasts, but like what's one thing that someone can do to instantly make their podcast better in your mind? Um, I would say add more elements to it. So there's a lot of creative things that you could do. I think maybe, you know, being intentional about your music choice um for it, like maybe like I like I was I listened, I used to listen to What A Day, um, the newspaper, and was what I loved about that was the jingles when it got to certain areas. I was really excited about that when it came. So, like, add some, like, you know, I would say add some extra elements in audio and then in visual, I would add like extra elements there. So don't just have it be a talking head on the screen. You know, if somebody mentions something and you can add images and things like that to it. And then I would also say don't be afraid to be um like creative and different. Like I was watching um one of Jonah's episodes for season two, and it was, you know, normally he's in studio, but he actually went to New York and um recorded like in a cafe with um the owner of uh sorry in a restaurant with the owner, and it was it felt like a a like a documentary. Like that was really cool, and it was like different from a podcast, and I was like so enthralled by it. I'm so glad that he he's doing that stuff. So I would like also like don't have you don't have to be talking heads. You can do like, you know, stuff on the street, you know, where you just interview people as they come by, you know, you can um ask audience questions, you can, you know, come up with cool phrases and like even on on Instagram, you know, instead of it just being talking head clips all the time, like add in fun things, you know, build a community. So, I mean, that was actually the long answer to say. Actually, build a community with your show to stand out, you know, sure add all these elements, but if you find a way for community engagement, that's where it turns from show to cultural impact. And the the biggest way that people find out about podcasts is one listening to other podcasts, but word of mouth. You know, that's how navigating narcissism really grew in its first, you know, season. And, you know, Romani and Dr. Romani and um or Tabletal, yeah, it had a big platform, but I would be hearing from people that they found out because their person shared this and shared that and shared that, you know, like blank community. And I remember one of the um top episodes we did the first season and we ended up doing four of them the second season was um ask Dr. Romani on different topics where we had them, the audience, because I was reading all the emails we were getting, you know, um answer their questions. So now people are invested in it. So I would like engage your audience, you know, maybe have one listener question a week and then it gets excited about people coming. So those are some things that I would do. I love that, man. I I I want to ask this uh as well, like, um, how can people turn their podcast into something that makes money? Because I've had guests ask me that, or and I know one or two methods, but like I want to hear from you like, how can people start getting this into something that makes money? Or should that not be a focus right away, you know? I mean, I would say, I mean, at the end of the day, if you're investing your time and money, you should be compensated back for it as soon as possible, um, unless you just have a different like focus for it. Um, but I'm gonna give you the Mojo Rainbow Creative Secrets, like a different bunch of different like ways. So we're actually doing a bunch of Rainbow Creative originals, and our strategy with those is multi-tiered when it comes to the funding. Um, so one of the things we do is we make those like crazy affordably. So we don't have like a huge budget for sponsors to be able to make money back sooner. So I would say like as slim and and good as you can for for that. Um, but our strategy is when we're launching one of these new shows, these clients make an initial investment and then we actually start releasing it for like, you know, one or two months to get the 30 days and grow so we can go to traditional um advertisers um just with the numbers because you can't even have a conversation with them. Like a lot, all my advertisers and agencies I work with at the end of the day, stir the brand approved, but what's your 30-day numbers? You know. So, like that's one thing. Like, start releasing to get those 30-day numbers. So that's a traditional way. Another way, um, going back to community is community support. So we work with supporting cast um for our new shows. And with that, the stats are if um 500 people pay five dollars a month, that's $2,500 a month. That could go towards the show. So that's a revenue generator there. Um, I would get on something like megaphone, like with us, all our shows are just automatically monetized on megaphone. It's not like a ton, but it's just passive revenue that can just just grow. That's a third tier. Um, I would also, when you're going to sponsors, don't just go to the bigger sponsors because they're gonna want big numbers and have they plan their budgets out sometimes for a year, go to local businesses. Um, go to local businesses because there's probably they're maybe spending $2,000 on a newspaper ad. Well, what if you're to split that into three different episodes for ad placement and you know, social media posts and everything like that? If you think about that, that $2,000 can have an impact on your show. But if you bet even further, instead of working with like a big company and you work with a local business, it also had more community impact for that local business. You know, instead of it being like maybe a 1% or 0.5% sale with big business, you can maybe sell at a store if people really like love it, you know, local business. That's that's community impact and giving back and can help your show. Um, and then I would also do um and like with supporting cash, you could do like multi-tiered things. And then just like donors or friends and family, just say, hey, you know, I have this big vision and my dream, create like a one-year or three-year plan to say, you know, if you like invest in me, once I get sponsors, you know, 15% return on, you know, your $1,000 you give to me if you invest in me. Well, an angel investor is probably not gonna expect a return on their one on their 15 on their thousand dollars. But if you write that and commit to it and you make that return, well, that's amazing. And then like you really commit to growth. So, like there's there's so many different ways, you know, to do it um and making money. Um, but I would say not, but going back, don't have that be the focus, have that be part of your business plan for the show. But again, go back to the content, go back to consistency, and then all those five things will just fall into place when you just stay consistent with it. I love that, man. Well, where can people go and find out more about you and what you do? So my website, rainbowcreative.co is dot co. You can um view something, view a lot of our shows. Um, our more recent ones that's just ongoing is Rainbow Creative underscore our Instagram. Um, you can follow there. Um, if you want to contact us, um reach out to podcasts um with an S at rainbowcreative.co. It'll go to me and my sales team and whoever just to talk about being a guest on some of our shows. We have, I think, plus of 20 shows right now, like 10 active and another in production. There's gonna be so many releases I'm gonna be recording till my eyes pop out over the last couple of weeks, which is all I want to do. So um, yeah. Um, so I would like um yeah, so like follow us there. Um, but like for us, we have opportunities to be guests on shows, lots of opportunities for sponsorships and our slate. Um, and then of course, we're taking new clients all the time for shows. We do consultation. Um, we've also just started doing audiobooks. We're releasing our first audiobook um in a couple of months. So now we're in that space. We do design, you can reach out for that. So yeah, reach out to us at podcast at rainbowcrito.co, follow us on Instagram. I'm Mojo Rainbow on Instagram. Post a lot of inspirational stuff and podcast stuff is all you'll see there. Um, and sometimes dancing and lots of Beyonce. Anytime something Beyonce happens, there will be a post. Um, just know that. Um so yeah, she's my favorite. So yeah.