Customer & CEO

For the final episode of Turning the key at SNG, host and SNG customer, Phoebe Newton, sits down with Mark Washer, Chief Executive of SNG, for the most open conversation of the series. 

In this episode, Phoebe brings customer feelings directly to Mark, inviting a transparent discussion about repairs, long-term investment and the everyday realities customers face.

This isn’t about highlighting problems, it’s about acknowledging them, explaining what’s being done and giving customers a clearer view of how SNG is working to improve their experience.

As series 1 comes to a close, this episode offers a meaningful look behind the scenes, showing how customer voice is shaping the organisation’s priorities now and for the future.

Turning the key at SNG will return in the autumn with more conversations centred on openness, accountability and the real experiences of our customers.

Useful links:

https://www.sng.org.uk/turning-the-key-at-sng

https://www.sng.org.uk/about-us/customer-engagement

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

So welcome to the final episode of Turning the Key at SNG. Today we're closing the series with a conversation that we've never done before. A genuine, open, one-to-one with the person leading the organisation. Mark Warsher, Chief Executive of SNG. Mark has been CEO at SNG since 2018, following senior roles in the sector. He brings decades of experience in housing, finance, and leadership. But today isn't about job titles or history, it's about the person behind the room. And should I say, I'm not just hosting this series, I'm also a customer myself. So today we're really bringing customer feelings to the forefront of this conversation. Everything you're here today has been shaped by what customers have been telling us the emotions sitting beneath our experiences, the things we're frustrated by or hopeful for. It's not often a customer gets to sit down with the CEO and talk publicly about what things really feel like. So that's exactly what we're doing today. Let's get started. Hello, Mark. Hello. Welcome to the podcast. And thank you very, very much for being here.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

Thank you for having me. This is all very um very posh and professional.

SPEAKER_02 1:01

Oh no, no, it's not behind the scenes.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

No, quite the rest is politics.

SPEAKER_02 1:06

No, not quite, but that is definitely some inspiration on it. Um so we're gonna jump straight in, if that's all right with you. Um, and talk a little bit about home and what that means. So for a lot of our customers, it can sometimes feel like leaders live very different home lives from the people that are receiving our services, which can create a bit of distance. So I'd love to start with something that kind of bridges that gap. When you think about home, what does it mean to you beyond the physical space?

SPEAKER_01 1:34

Well, I think the physical space is key, to be clear. Um I I think if you think about, I mean, the first thing I think about home is is the physical space. Um and and actually I I guess if I think about home, it kind of means two things, because it means the home that you live in now, but it also, I don't know if others are the same, but if you talk about home, you think about where you grew up and what and what what life was like growing up and the first home that you exactly, the first home that you that you had. Um and look, I mean, to be honest, I don't think uh that every every person working in a housing can association can say that they have first-hand experience of living in living in social housing. I don't have first-hand experience of living in social housing. I I grew up sort of you know very comfortably in a sleepy town in in Sussex, um, you know, and it and it was and it was great. But what I I guess is important is is not that you necessarily have that first hand experience, but that you, through the work that you do, uh put yourself in a position where you can empathize with the the customers, the the tenants that we have and and understand and try to understand and listen and you know and try to understand what that what that looks and and feels like. I mean, certainly uh home now, which is on the south coast, means means being near the sea. It means you know, it means my partner, it means our dogs, or or dog at the moment, because we lost one. Um you know, and it and it is it is definitely somewhere where you want to close the front door and and and feel comfortable and safe and comfortable, where you can uh entertain friends and family um uh and um you know um feel feel, as I say, you know, kind of protected and and um and cocooned in a way from from the the the the outside world. I would say that I guess in my twenties living in London, I I didn't, you know, I I certainly had some rental experiences that weren't always fantastic. Um uh but um and some and some probably some pretty dodgy private landlords from time to time.

SPEAKER_00 3:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:40

Um uh but um but yeah, no, look, I I cannot say that um I I've lived in in social housing.

SPEAKER_02 3:49

So obviously you've not lived in social housing, but what brought you into the sector um and what kind of keeps you connected to it?

SPEAKER_01 3:57

So I was working for one of the big firms of chartered accountants in the city uh and pretty early on in my twenties took a decision that I didn't want to feel like stay in that purely corporate world. And um and so was looking at a point after I uh after I qualified of moving into other sectors, you know, potentially, if you like, not for profits or or charities or or whatever. Um and one of the areas that I looked at was housing. I looked at others. I mean, it's one of those sliding door, one of those sliding door moments in a in a way. Yeah. So I looked at um international development. Um, so um those sort of, you know, in that sort of aid agency space, um, which I was quite interested in at one point. Um, but I had a friend who was working for an association for that that um older listeners might remember called Circle 33, which is now part of Clarion. Um uh she was an architect, and I was looking to leave Deloitte's, and she said, Oh, there's a job going in finance uh circle 33, which I went for and got.

SPEAKER_02 5:18

What was do you remember the title of the job?

SPEAKER_01 5:20

The title of the job was management accountant. Oh so um yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

Quite a nice entry level then.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

Yeah, yeah, no, it was um uh and we were based at that point. There's a very, very posh restaurant now called the German Gymnasium at King's Cross. And that was an old, as it says on the tin, German gymnasium. That was the office that that Circle 33 was based in at the time, which was absolutely horrendous. So going from you know, fairly smart city office to to this very run-down uh place at King's Cross when King's Cross was not like it is now, was um a bit of a a bit of a wake-up call. Um and I think when I joined, I mean you asked why why I'm in in a sense, why I'm still here and what what what what made me stay. I think I I mean I think I pretty quickly decided that that actually housing was one of those things that was so important to people's life chances. And you know, if I was thinking about being in that sort of space um outside of that purely corporate world, then then it was a a good a good place to be. But what I I I identified pretty early on was that actually I don't think housing associations were, or this was in the early 90s, I don't think housing associations were necessarily that well run at the time. And I thought there was a real opportunity to bring um, if you like, a a sort of a professional kind of corporate view to what was um uh a slightly um probably shouldn't say this, but a slightly sort of hippie sector um at the time. I mean it was all kind of you know sandals and we should bring it back knitted sweaters to sort of Are we opposed to bringing back to the right? Maybe keep the corporate side of things. No, exactly, spits of it. Um but so it you know it was it was very different, it was a very different world. Um, and I thought actually there is a way of of of bringing some of what I had had uh um experienced in that kind of corporate world, some of which is good, in terms of you know, efficiency and effectiveness, all in service ultimately of the customer. And it seemed to me from a very early stage that it, you know, it wasn't reasonable that that that that actually those organizations were were not particularly efficient or effective, because actually all of the money that is coming in is is ultimately coming from our customers.

SPEAKER_02 8:00

Is there a moment from your early career or even much earlier in life that kind of shaped your approach to the homes that we provide today?

SPEAKER_01 8:09

I'm not sure that I would pinpoint a particular moment, um, but but it what it does seem to me um is is sort of blindingly obvious, and I think it's taken the sector uh perhaps too long to get to this place. You know, it's taken tragedies like Grenfell, or it's taken tragedies like like um the you know the awful case of Awab Ishach to get us to a point where we actually recognize that having a home in in social housing isn't something that that people should be sort of forever grateful for. But it you know, it's actually a a a representation of a of a sort of a basic, pretty basic human human right, and and therefore that all uh everything that that follows from that in terms of the level of service that our customers should expect um in terms of the quality of the homes that that they're that they're living in, should be as good as if they were, you know, were had had paid for for that home on the open market. So, for example, you know, that that takes me to things like being tenure-blind. I mean, it has always seemed to me to be the case that, you know, the notion that we sometimes see of of um, and I don't think you see this so much now, but I mean this idea of poor doors where developments, particularly in London, were being built where you'd have a sort of a shiny block and a shiny entrance for the um uh homeowners and then for people who were renting social, um, a sort of a nasty little door round the corner. I mean, that that is just appallingly awful design, um, um designed to kind of reinforce some of the worst things we hear about social housing, which is about stigma. Um and and and that sort of thing, you know, is is is really I don't know, it just sort of offends my kind of moral compass, really. Um I guess if I do think of one thing, which is that when I joined, we went out and and looked at some SNG homes. And we we looked at some void homes, and we went into a home that we thought was pre-repair before it was let to a new customer. And the message was that it wasn't pre-repair, it was it was post. And I think we thought actually, this is not where we you know think that our homes should be. So, you know, I mean at that point I observed and I've been observing ever since. If you move into one of our brand new homes, you will give it an eight or nine out of ten, probably. Um, if you move into one of our refurbished 50, 60, 70-year-old homes, then you might be giving it a five or a six if if we're lucky. And we have to aspire to all of those homes being at a at a much higher um standard. Now, that is a long, we might talk more about it, but that is a long journey. That isn't something that you can do overnight. Um, it would be great to be able to wave a magic wand and Oh, we all want that magic wand, don't we? Yeah, and suddenly all of those homes were sort of brought up to the to the standard that that we want.

SPEAKER_02 11:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:23

But we've got over 85,000 homes. You know, that that has to be seen as a medium to to long-term focused investment plan.

SPEAKER_02 11:34

So across this podcast series, customers and colleagues have shared very honest reflections about their experiences. Um and through the customer influence panel, which we abbreviate to SIP, um, the meetings that you attend, you've um heard many of these voices firsthand and they don't hold back. Um have any customer stories or insights shifted or deepened how you think about customer experience at SNG?

SPEAKER_01 11:58

I mean, without without a doubt. I I guess the one thing that I one of those examples that I that I come back to is in relation to a housing ombudsman case where we had a severe maladministration outcome. We don't like severe maladministration outcomes, but but actually, you know, we have to take the view that we're going to learn from them. And one of the things that the ombudsman was asking people to do in some cases, asking Chief Execs to do in some cases, is to um go out and meet the customer face to face. And so in this particular case, Nicole, our chief customer officer, and I uh went to meet um a customer in in Hampshire. And it was, I mean, I won't go into it was a it was a pretty grim case of a repair which involved drainage and not clean drainage, um, uh not working effectively and essentially sort of bubbling up under the floor. And this went on for a an incredibly long time. I think you know, you could probably put it in the category of a fairly complex repair that was difficult to kind of diagnose. And I don't think we'd been short in trying to put in the effort to get it solved, but we hadn't solved it until someone went out and um uh and put cameras in the drains and worked out that the drains were going uphill. And it um it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that that drains going uphill is is not is is not likely to end in in success. And that was that was a uh a problem that had been caused by the the original construction of this home. The the point was, I think it was incredibly important to hear from this customer. And this home was in perfect condition. You know, this this customer was was was clearly incredibly proud of her home and had been incredibly frustrated by the fact that she simply couldn't get the traction that she needed. She couldn't get um uh the solution that that she needed. And and I think that that just was incredibly kind of telling in you know, in terms of, you know, I get an awful lot of complaints in my inbox. I mean, I get multiple complaints every day direct to my inbox, which is also one way of of of sort of gauging what how how we're doing. And it can become quite easy to say, oh well, it's just another uh just another complaint. So so from time to time to get out and speak to to customers who have simply been having uh you know a really bad experience, um, I think was was was just kind of very telling. And and to be honest, what I don't always necessarily sort of uh find myself 100% behind the housing ombudsman's ways and means of of doing things, but I do think that that was um that that was a sort of a a positive experience ultimately in terms of what Nicole and I took away from it, which is that you know that that that need to kind of listen and and respond and react.

SPEAKER_02 15:10

Are there any examples that you're particularly proud of where customer voice has directly influenced positive change?

SPEAKER_01 15:18

I mean, firstly, they are involved in um things like the Home of Play Standard. I mean, when we created the Homer Play Standard.

SPEAKER_02 15:26

I was there. I was with them. There you go.

SPEAKER_01 15:28

I remember um so this is not we what we don't want is is the what is now the customer influence panel, that those groups of customers that we bring together. We we don't want that simply to be a tick box. We really want it to influence the way that we're doing business. So the home and play standard, just to explain briefly, and I think you've had a session on Jimmy, haven't you? But um uh that the home and play standard is is essentially um the lens through which we look at our the quality of our existing homes and the quality of new homes. And we we started with with with a model of of what we thought were were were the key, some of the key elements that um that we needed. So it looks at a range of different things, for example, space standards, light standards, uh biodiversity, um connectivity to transport, and so on and so forth. Um but actually doing that without the um involvement of our customers is is missing or would have been missing a a sort of a massive a massive dimension. Well, it's an assumption that we know what they want. Well, exact exactly. And you know, and I think there's a there's a lot there that that obviously would would tick everyone's boxes, but that you know it definitely did, I think, take on a different dimension because it went through that process. And you were there, I wasn't, but but um you know you could you can say more about that. But I think that that is is is an example of where using those structures that I talked about is is is really going to yield some some positive benefits. And that isn't, as I say, just so that we can point to it and say, oh, look, we've involved customers here. It's it's because the home and play standard is something that's going to be um you know potentially having an impact on our homes and our customers for decades to come. Why wouldn't we want to involve our customers, um, our customers in that?

SPEAKER_02 17:25

So the new corporate plan, which will be released later this year, has been shaped partly by resident feedback and the work of groups like the customer influence panel. One thing that is clear um with the new plan is that you're having to strike a balance between long-term and short-term goals. Um so customers often look for improvements that they can feel quickly, um, which is completely understandable. Um, but at the same time, SNG has to think about the bigger picture, uh, making sure that our older homes are invested in early rather than fixing problems too late. So, how do you balance those immediate expectations with the long-term responsibility for keeping homes safe and sustainable?

SPEAKER_01 18:03

We have to do both. Yeah. Um we cannot take our eye off the the sort of you know, the the the current challenges that we know um we are uh um sometimes experience and that our customers experience. Um so that's about service delivery. You know, it it's about ensuring that we are uh r responding. So I'm you know, I'm really pleased, for example, that recent initiatives have have significantly reduced the average time that it takes to do a day-to-day repair, a responsive repair.

SPEAKER_02 18:33

I think it's down to is it been reduced by 11%.

SPEAKER_01 18:36

I think it's been reduced by 11 days from something like 35 days on average to 24.

SPEAKER_02 18:42

And that's in the last year, I think.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

And that is, yes, exactly, in the in in something like the last the last 12 months. So that has been about about a really sort of concerted um a concerted focus um on that. Ultimately, and this is coming, people would will be able to self-serve when it when it comes to repairs. That's that's the here and now. Um and that from a customer satisfaction uh perspective is one of the biggest areas that that we know um you know affects um our customers' experience of SNG. But if I you know, if I think about um those homes that I was I was saying, are the homes that were built in the 50s, 60s, 70s, where they are not at the standard that we need them to be, we also have to have that long-term um perspective in our existing homes. I mean, one of the statistics that people might not be aware of is that over the last five years, we have more than doubled our investment in our existing homes, from something approaching 150 million to in excess of 310 million pounds annually. It's big money, isn't it? It's it's it's huge, but an awful lot of it is about you know, significant investment in the existing homes and taking that um long-term view. And then I think in you know, in terms of the corporate plan and that five-year sort of forward look, it's really difficult to overstate the significance that that technology is going to have. I mean, if you think back five years, ten years, and and the journey that that we've uh come on from a technology perspective, it's been huge. But I think that that's nothing compared with the pace that we're going to see uh um change. So, you know, yes, we talk about digitization and that is key. I think as a as an industry, housing has been kind of way behind the pack. I'm so glad you said that. Digitization.

SPEAKER_02 20:37

Well, because I've always thought it, but I didn't know if I could say it. So I'm so glad you said it perhaps.

SPEAKER_01 20:42

You you you can say it and you can shout it, Phoebe, because I think it you know it's absolutely true. I think we have we have done an awful lot. I mean, if I think about the the the evolution of data and and you know the the use of data, um uh the the integrity of our data, if I can call it that, um, and the importance of data in the way that we think about the organization, think about our customers' um satisfaction and and you know what that data is is telling us is absolutely key. But but if you think forward, what is AI going to have done to SNG in in five years' time? And that's exciting, but it's also um a little bit scary. Um but we can't bury our head in the sands um anymore. And I think as housing uh uh organizations, you know, sitting back and seeing what everyone else is doing and then and then sort of jumping in 10 or 15 years later is is not really doing our customers um any favours. We we absolutely need to be at the forefront of that.

SPEAKER_02 21:50

So practically, where do you see this technology and AI actually coming in?

SPEAKER_01 21:55

You know, it will go straight to customer service, it will go straight to you know things like predictive um analytics. So we already have sensors in a number of people's homes, but but you know, intelligent boilers and and and so on that are that are sending us messages and and you know are aware that they're going to break before before our customers are aware they're going to break, you know, actually potentially changes the whole relationship that we have with our customers around around repairs and so on. So huge opportunity, um very difficult to predict exactly where it's going to land and what it's going to look to be like. Moving so quick. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:32

So something that comes up when we're talking with our customers is that some don't always feel particularly connected to SNG and some feel frustrated by their experiences. So I think avoiding that reality wouldn't be fair to people that are listening to this episode. So I would like to explore a little bit. How do you stay connected to the reality of our customers' day-to-day experiences?

SPEAKER_01 22:55

I mean we've talked about this a bit I think uh um I I mean I do get out and meet our customers not as much as I would like if I'm um entirely uh honest. Um I mean for example I I periodically spend some time in the contact centres listening to our our our customers' calls and that can be um incredibly incredibly enlightening and it's also great to see the um the the professionalism which with which our our sort of frontline teams in those um contact centres are are are working with our customers and the level of of kind of you know care and support that that they're that they're giving sometimes to people who are who are sort of quite you know quite quite distressed.

SPEAKER_02 23:38

Yeah. Oh I've I I've been lucky enough to shadow the contact centre and I I've done it a few times and every time I walk away everyone should do that. If only there was a way that we could get every member of staff up there to listen because it just gives you such um a wide scope on what's actually going on. And I think to be honest contact centre um colleagues are the unsung heroes because they have to know nearly every area of the business know where to direct like the knowledge that you need to even do that job is insane. So they need more of a shout out in my opinion. And we've we've had customers from our customer influence panel also shadow in the contact centre. And I just think it's yeah we should try and do it more if we can for sure.

SPEAKER_01 24:18

One thing I was a bit disappointed by so we had a series of customer road shows that the that the customer teams uh held and really hope to be able to get out um and and meet customers through those but but actually just we we we couldn't make those those dates work. But I am um I think heading out later this month to the Isle of Wight to meet customers um and uh um uh again in l in London um as well over the over the coming weeks.

SPEAKER_02 24:45

What do you think is at the heart of customer frustrations right now?

SPEAKER_01 24:48

I think look I think I mean I think let's be clear um uh uh most of the points where we touch our customers and most of that is around repairs are successful. Um you know we do You don't hear rather good stuff though do you don't hear about the good stuff we do approaching 300,000 repairs um a year a year um if you if you look at the the sort of transaction by transaction um satisfaction levels they're they're they're good they're at at something like 80 80% but I'm not really focused on the 80% as you say we don't hear about them and in a way it's right that we don't hear about them because they're they're fine it's it's it's the 20% that aren't um working well. I think that that is um and I have I have long said you know how does that manifest itself it may it manifests itself if you're a customer by it us not being easy to do business with by people having to to chase you see this in complaints as well um you know people make a complaint and and it doesn't always get dealt with um you know uh uh as as smoothly as as it perhaps should have been and and what does that do? Well that means that ultimately you end up in a bit of a cycle where the customer loses confidence and loses trust in us. So ease and trust are are are are absolutely central to to those things. I and you you know you you you might not be surprised by this coming from the background that I do I think a lot of the solution is pretty boring. It's data its systems and its process. If we give our people the data accurate data that they can get their hands on quickly that they only have to look in one place for that is a single version of the truth if we get that right if we give them the systems to uh uh uh to be able to access that information and if we've talked about the contact centre if someone's on a call you know being able to access that information quickly and easily if we have the processes that mean that you know things aren't falling through the gaps and our customers are uh um not having to chase something where you know perhaps perhaps uh someone has gone out with the the wrong tools or the wrong equipment um and they say oh someone else will be coming back and that person never turns up so they have to chase it. You know if we get data systems and process right we will solve an awful lot of those things. And that's where a lot of our focus is um and I mean if I'm honest I you know I'd want us to be doing that that quicker. But sometimes it takes time and obviously now we we have the former network former sovereign that we're that we're bringing together. And you know and some of the work we're doing now to um accelerate the time that it takes to do a a basic repair. So you know the aim is to um rather than us saying well you'll you'll have your repair done in about a month, we want to say you'll have your repair done in about a week you know the a lot of the work that we're doing there, a lot of the investment that we're that we're putting in will also start to um streamline those those those services um as well.

SPEAKER_02 28:08

So obviously we've kind of naturally moved on to the repairs topic um which is something that we haven't really touched upon in this podcast but it definitely feels right to um I know you've recently dealt with your own broken boiler one of those uh real life moments that we've all had um when you hear customers describe how repairs issues have affected their lives do you understand their frustration yeah look I mean I I mean my my own my own boiler I mean our our boiler is currently fixed I think you think I well I I look I think I think back I'd I'd I'll I'll tell you the the the the experience that we had which was also a boiler experience about three or four years ago at home at around this time of year.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

So it was sort of December right through to February when we had a an aging boiler um and we had to call out someone to come and fix it on multiple occasions. And the one lesson that I've taken from uh from our own experience a few years ago was that we had the same person coming back time after time after time and they were able to to build on what they'd done the last time their their knowledge they you know they they knew what they'd done they knew that if it hadn't worked then they needed to do something different. We still don't always do that in in SNG. Do we try to do it? I think look I think I think it's easier said than done and I think one of the things that we're uh clearly looking at in investing in is um you know is that workforce scheduling. So is i if you like um the the logistics of where is someone going to do a repair and and getting the same person back when they might be 30 miles away doing something else to fix um we have the more complex problems is is is not always going to be easy. So it's certainly um an aspiration and to have different people going in each time trying to understand the notes that the that the person who went in before um has has left them is must be intensely frustrating for for customers.

SPEAKER_02 30:11

We have a lot of conversations with customers and I heard it last week we were in uh one of the Bournemouth states and we spoke to some customers and um I think there was an there was an issue with a neighbour um but the thing that struck more than anything was having to repeat it and having to repeat the situation to multiple people so I think there is there really is a need and a want from customers to have that familiarity to have that sense of community as well because obviously once upon a time we were a million different small housing associations you know and it was a lot more community based in that sense in terms of knowing people in your area that are coming to your house to fix a broken tap or a boiler or whatever it is. So I think it's definitely clear that that is wanted by customers for sure.

SPEAKER_01 30:53

No and I think you know if you think about um I mean I talked about workforce scheduling but I mean if you think about you know if you if you have any order these days I mean you you can for a delivery at home you know you're you you can pretty much to the minute identify when that delivery is going to arrive. Now if I'm honest a delivery is an awful lot easier than than potentially fixing a a a complex repair but but but that is you know that's that's the level of expectation that our customers have these these these days and we you know we need to move in that direction.

SPEAKER_02 31:28

I think some of the frustration that comes from customers is the gap between what is promised and what is delivered. What do you make of that?

SPEAKER_01 31:39

Well I mean firstly I think you're I think you're right um and I think that that is I mean in in a sense it comes back to what I was talking about which is ease and uh and and trust and I don't think that any of our colleagues who are who are making a commitment that X, Y, or Z will happen by A B, C date are doing anything other than you know um committing to something that they that they think will be delivered. I think where it falls down is is that boring stuff again though. I think it's I think it's data in its systems and its and its processes. I think that the core problem is is is giving our our colleagues the tools to do to do the job. And that's why you know this investment in technology and you know let let's be clear I mean SNG is in a fortunate position a lot of housing associations don't have the funds to invest in transformation programs don't have the funds to invest in digitisation and and so on don't have the funds to invest in improving their data improving their management information. You know we do and that's great and we have to make the most of that because I think that that is the key thing for me that will change the dial.

SPEAKER_02 32:53

So in our last episode we spoke with Lewis who lives at the foyer on the Isle of Wight a service which provides housing and support to young people facing homelessness. Like every guest in the series um he has left a question for the next person in the chair which this time is you just happens to be you Mr Washer so this is what Lewis has asked.

SPEAKER_01 33:12

If if you were a resident of one of S and G's supported living properties what would you want to see improved first and why? By the way I listened to that podcast and I thought it was really good and I thought Lewis was um was was was really great. Yeah um I I um I was talking to our um this is cheating possibly go on I was talking to our chief customer officer Nicole uh sharp um um uh about this question because I did get a little heads up as to what this question might be. And and one of the things that that she um observed and you know it it will be challenging and we don't necessarily have the resources to do this but but but where we are able to and it might be something to to sort of work towards in some of those supported schemes is is actually having regular round tables that involve the the the the customers, the residents of those schemes um alongside staff from SNG in you know from from different bits of collaboration um and and indeed from outside agencies um really to just hear on a a sort of a regular rhythm and a regular sort of heartbeat of what is it that would make a difference to you as um as as customers. And you know where where we have done that, I think that has led to some really um important changes, um benefits, making sure that people get the support that they need, which they perhaps didn't know was available. So I I think it's an aspiration um it's it's not a fully funded aspiration at the moment but but um you know we we need to kind of keep thinking about that and and hopefully at some point might be able to roll that out more.

SPEAKER_02 34:55

Thank you very much. I hope you're listening Lewis so Mark thank you so much for being a part of this and stepping into something completely new um a public open conversation between a customer and the CEO. And to everyone listening I really hope this episode and the series has helped you feel seen and I hope you've heard uh your own frustrations hopes questions reflected in what we've spoken about today and that it's given you a bit more clarity transparency and connection around some of the things that matter most to you. This is our final episode of the series but we I know but we will be back again in the autumn we've had the green light um where we are going to put more conversations that put customer voice at the centre of SNG's decisions. So if there is a topic you'd like us to explore next time you can email us at engagement at sng.org.uk and if you want to get more involved in shaping SNG, whether that's through panels, events, surveys or simply sharing your experiences, head to engage dotsng.org.uk to see all the ways that you can have your say. Thank you for listening, thank you for being a part of the series and thank you for continuing to speak up. We'll see you in autumn.