A Christmas Orgy | Voyeurism and Choreography in “Eyes Wide Shut”

Carol's motel scene is one of the most breathtakingly intimate moments in queer cinema. Two intimacy coordinators and a filmmaker break down the robe pull.

Full description:

For our holiday special, we're entering The Sapphic Canon.

Ariel and Morgan are joined by filmmaker and comedy icon Amanda Holland (On the Phone with Ash and Amanda) to dissect one of the most breathtakingly intimate love scenes in queer cinema: the motel moment from Todd Haynes' Carol (2015).

From tension you could pour over pancakes to the robe pull that changed lesbian history, the trio breaks down why this scene still feels like a masterclass in sensual restraint, visual storytelling, and character vulnerability.

In this episode:

• How power dynamics shift without a word, told only through body language
• Why the simulated oral moment works and where it gets a little thigh-heavy
• How Cate Blanchett seduces with a single tug of her robe

A filmmaker's lens on queer intimacy

This episode is equal parts craft, chaos, holiday cheer, and deep queer yearning: the perfect festive treat.

Watch along timestamps:

• Motel scene: Full scene covered in episode

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Credits

Carol (2015) | Director: Todd Haynes | Number 9 Films / Killer Films / Film4 Productions

Hashtags

#CarolMovie #CateBlanchett #QueerCinema #IntimacyCoordinator #FilmBreakdown

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:28

Hi, I'm Ariel Lee Cohen. Hey, I'm Morgan Smith.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

And we're the hosts of Faking It with Ariel and Morgan. We're two intimacy coordinators here to talk about the spicy scenes you see in film and TV.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

Yeah, and we have a holiday episode part two. Holiday part two.

SPEAKER_04 0:47

I have my little, I'm gonna call it a sapphic bow, a sapphic holiday bow. Yes! I love a sapphic bow. And I love your sweater, The Return of Sapphic Sweater, and I'm on board. Thank you so much. All right, well, we're gonna start with Hot Off the Set, where we share onset stories with all identifying details, such as names, places, and project titles, changed for privacy. Then in scene work, we'll watch an intimacy scene in real time and rate it using our SpiceKing, scoring it across three key categories and giving it a final letter grade. We'll have notes and links in our captions in case you want to watch the scene yourself. After that, in Position to Know, we'll answer common questions we get about our work. So let's kick it off with Hot Abbas. Oh my god, that was gorgeous. Thank you. Yeah. I have a little cold, so we're working with what we have.

SPEAKER_01 1:43

You'd never know it.

SPEAKER_04 1:44

Oh, I have a story. It's for a production I'm in the middle of now. Okay. So it's like, I don't know how it's gonna turn out, but I think it'll be okay. There was a miscommunication issue recently during my director call. There was some confusion over what the actors were gonna wear uh in the scene. So the director said, I want to imply nudity for the actors. And I said, Okay, great. What is camera going to see? And she's like, Oh, well, the actors are gonna be wearing nude underwear. And I said, Great, and I'll I'll handle that with wardrobe, no problem. But what is camera going to see? And she's like, No, I want camera to see the nude undergarments. And I said, Can you clarify a little bit more about what are you trying to convey to the audience in implying nudity but showing nude underwear? And she was like, Well, I think it would be sexy to see the nude underwear because it would make people think of what they would look like under it. It kind of would would remind me more of like a Ken doll. That's what I was thinking. It is sexier to use the imagination to think about what something could look like more so than trying to show it, show it. So if you want to imply nudity, show a sexy little clavicle, show a sexy little thigh grip. We don't need to see, I think, the modesty garments in order for the audience to understand what we're looking at. Because I think we don't need to like spell it out in such a way. I understand what the director was thinking, but I thought it was just like an interesting conversation to be had.

SPEAKER_01 3:32

Another option would have been okay, so do you want to just go like as far down the pelvis as we can before we would start to see where pubic hair would be? So we just have the V. Yeah, the V, as it's medically called. The V. It's like do you want the medical term? Do you want to just do like what we were doing in middle school with our lowrider jeans, where it's like, how low can we possibly go before this show's everything? Underwear right out of there.

SPEAKER_04 4:06

Wanna see that thong? Little, just like a little whale tail. Ultimately, the director and I talked about all right, I'm going to bring all options to the actors and we're gonna see what they're most comfortable with. If they would rather imply nudity, wear lingerie, and have the lingerie in the scene, wear full clothing, and I'll just present all options for the actors and see what they would like to do. And then from there, she and I will discuss options. It was an interesting conversation.

SPEAKER_01 4:33

It's also so funny to me because like modesty garments are famously not sexy to most people. I don't want to yuck anybody's yum. Because they're not designed to be sexy, they're they're designed to hide. So yeah, you would have like a weird Ken doll situation, which isn't the story. We're in the flesh-tone zone. Oh, I like that. Oh, I want a t-shirt that says the flesh-tone zone. Yeah, the flesh-tone zone. I'll wear it to set. That actually reminds me of a project I worked on. I was working on a sci-fi short where the character was meant to look like this mythical creature, and the director's take on this mythical creature was to make them uh anatomically androgynous. And so they cast a female body actor. They were going to be in a onesie, but they wanted a bulge at the crotch, and their reference was this Marilyn Manson cover from the 90s. I don't know if you remember where it looks like he's naked and he actually has a Ken doll situation. This is the reference image for what you've got.

SPEAKER_04 5:49

Okay, so the album cover for mechanical animals. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 5:52

Yeah. And because this was a lower budget project, I was tasked with sourcing the bulge. So this was another trip to Dick's Sporting Goods. And I got, oh my God, I love your trips to Dick's. Yep. I have a membership there now. I'm earning my points. And so I just got a small sports cup and we glued it on to the actor's underwear. Is that your hot office set as well? Yeah, yeah, that'll be my hot office set. Why not?

SPEAKER_04 6:23

I think it's a scene work moment.

SPEAKER_01 6:25

All right. For our um second holiday episode, we are going to watch a Christmas classic. Eyes wide shut.

SPEAKER_04 6:36

Obviously. Obviously.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

On the same lines as home alone. Just as memorable, just as iconic 90s Christmas movie. In case our Venetian masks didn't totally give it away.

SPEAKER_00 6:54

Of course. It's not like I knew what we were watching or anything.

SPEAKER_01 6:58

No, no, there was no preparation whatsoever.

SPEAKER_00 7:01

This is this is just what I wear, darling. This is just my life.

SPEAKER_01 7:07

So, some context in case there are people who are not familiar with Eyes Wide Shut. This is the 1999 Stanley Kubrick classic. It is based on the 1929 novella Dream Story, or in its original German Traum Novelle, by Arthur Schnitzler. Okay, context. Bill and Alice are a young married couple after a tense night in which Alice confesses she once fantasized about leaving Bill for another man. Bill wanders New York in a state of wounded ego and sexual disorientation. He's propositioned, rejected, and tempted in a series of encounters, each one deepening his sense of inadequacy and curiosity. When he runs into an old friend now working as a pianist, Bill learns about a secret elite gathering requiring a password and a disguise. Driven by jealousy, humiliation, and a desire to reclaim a sense of power, he infiltrates this masked ritual. In this clip, we are going to be seeing Tom Cruise as Dr. William Bill Harford, Julian Davis as Mandy Curin, Abigail Good as Mysterious Woman physically, but the voice of Mysterious Woman is uncredited as Kate Blanchette. This is like six degrees of Kate Blanchette now. We'll get into that. And there are going to be just a ton of background people. The film was written by Stanley Kubrick and Frederick Raphael, directed by Stanley Kubrick, officially intimacy coordinated by no one, but Stanley Kubrick did work with a choreographer, Yolande Snaith, on the orgy scene that we're about to watch. Ultimately, her choreography didn't end up in the scene we're going to see, but a lot of the prep work she did did influence the scene. Famously, there are two versions of the scene: there is a censored version and an uncensored version. Stanley Kubrick died days after screening his final cut. And then they had to deal with the MPAA, which is the rating system in America, who did not like a lot of the orgy scene. But nobody wanted to cut anything that Stanley Kubrick shot. So they placed other people in front of the more explicit acts in the orgy scene, hooded, cloaked people who weren't actually there on the day of filming. This was the version that Americans saw in theaters at the time. The rest of the world saw the uncensored version, which is actually really hard to get now. But you did some digging and you found the uncensored version, and that's what we are going to watch.

SPEAKER_00 9:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

Yes. Because we wanted to see the uncensored version, it's on this website, and it is just ever so choppy. So if you're watching along with us, please know that this is not what Kubrick envisioned 100%.

SPEAKER_04 10:17

If you'd like to follow along with us, we are starting at 118.34. We have female presenting bodies and a beautiful Kate Blanchette voice whispering through my ear. All of the women here are just wearing masks, chokers, thongs, and heels, and nothing else. And it's very striking, I will say. Very uh a lot of bounce to it, and it doesn't seem to me that that pelvises are moving apart and together as much as together up and down.

SPEAKER_01 11:20

It kind of reminds me of the movement when someone's riding a saddle at a bar.

SPEAKER_04 11:25

Yes. 100%. We have another group having sex on top of a table. It's not beautiful, but it's fine. Now we have a little orgy moment. So we have masks simulating oral sex, which is interesting because the masks are not touching anywhere near the genitalia. They are simulating in a way that you and I might choreograph someone to simulate. So if you've ever wondered what's happening, it looks similar to this. Touching of the chest, but not on the nipples and areolas. Oh, and now we are at another penetrative sex moment from behind. Again, the movements don't match perfectly, but it's okay. And we move into another room, and again, folks are having penetrative sex on top of a person who is a table today. We have a lot of spectators in all of these rooms with different masks. We have very diamond-shaped pubic hair. So very specific.

SPEAKER_01 12:27

The pubic hair is so specific.

SPEAKER_04 12:29

And also the body type. Everyone's very Renaissance painting in the background. Just like lounging lighting that's very gold and red and soft.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

Now we have the mysterious woman.

SPEAKER_04 12:42

Yeah, she's dead.

SPEAKER_01 12:44

The Kate, not Kate.

SPEAKER_04 12:45

Hey, now we just have folks just making out with masks, so nothing. But nearby.

SPEAKER_05 12:50

You realize the danger you're in now.

SPEAKER_04 12:53

I remember when I watched the censored version, I just kept thinking, wow, this is the best masking I've ever seen in my life. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, like, it's like a big one-shot.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

And every time we're turning a corner, someone is perfectly in line with the sexual action. Because people are wearing masks, when you're talking about masking in this moment.

SPEAKER_04 13:16

Great point. So there's two different kinds of masking. One is mask work, the way that Morgan and I, if you're looking at us visually, uh, are both wearing Venetian masks right now. Uh that's called masking. But another kind of masking in the IC world is when something or someone is in front of any kind of pelvic interaction or is hiding nudity or hiding any kind of simulated sex actions. A perfect example is in Austin Powers, in that one scene where he keeps walking around and he's always covered by like a plant or a person or something.

SPEAKER_01 13:53

Austin Powers actually references this scene. That scene where the objects are covering like where his penis would be showing or where the girl's breast would be showing was actually inspired by the masking, like the hiding work that was done in post on the censored version of this scene.

SPEAKER_04 14:13

What? Yes. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah. Oh my God. It's very beautifully shot. A lot of the simulated sex movements aren't perfectly done. They are very performative. And there are always voyeurs or spectators in the room. So that could be very purposeful in the story that they're trying to tell. Do I think it looks perfect as sex? No, I do not, but I think that it still works with the themes and the narrative here.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

Totally agree. Some extra background on this scene. Stanley Kubrick, I don't know if like the public knew this or just people in the industry knew this. He was really uncomfortable with sex as a subject.

SPEAKER_03 14:58

One of the most sexual scenes of all time. And he's like, I don't like it.

SPEAKER_01 15:02

Well, he wanted to explore sexual relations, especially the relationship dynamic between the husband and wife in this movie. But he was very uncomfortable with this scene. And in fact, kept pushing it off. So this was the last thing they shot. They had hired all of the models to be the women. And he did specify a specific body type. He wanted them, first of all, to kind of mimic a Barbie doll in terms of being tall and very thin and large-chested, but he also specified no plastic surgery. Oh. We've alluded to this being a long shoot. Stanley Kubrick was famous for doing 20 plus takes on basically every shot. This actually won the Guinness World Record for the longest continuous film shoot. It was originally set to be a three-month-long shoot. It took 400 days. The longest continuous stretch was for 46 straight weeks, and they were all night shoots.

SPEAKER_04 16:12

Oh my God.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 16:15

Poor people. I know. Night shoots are really difficult to handle because your circadian rhythm gets really messed up. You are shooting the scenes at night, and usually that means no matter how many scenes you're doing, you are shooting all night long. So that could be 12, 14, 16 plus hours because they need to be walking around outside at night, or they don't want the light of day shining in from windows. You can shoot day for night or put garbage bags or scrims all over the windows to basically black out the light. They are sort of a necessity in film shoots and they're very difficult to deal with. They can lead to a lot of accidents, illness on set, people not being able to drive home after set. Although if you do a certain amount of night shoots in a row, you eventually get used to it and just kind of work like graveyard shift style. Stanley Kubrick is Stanley Kubrick and his films are heralded as some of the best ever made. And I respect that and accept that, but I also feel that he tortured his actors and crew to a certain extent. And I don't want to ignore that, that he traumatized people. For sure.

SPEAKER_01 17:27

I mean, so this was a point in Tom Cruise's career where he was trying to work with all of the great living directors. He had wanted to work with Stanley Kubrick for a while. Finally, this was the right project that came along. But this shoot broke him. I believe specifically he was shooting a scene where he was opening a door, and that's literally all that was happening, and he did 76 takes. Stanley was uncomfortable with the nature of this scene. He kept putting it off. He had the choreographer and all these models hired, and they were working on choreography for months. They were doing contact improv exercises. He didn't want something that he thought was pornographic. He wanted it to be more like a modern dance with the inference of sex, according to Julianne Davis. As it started to become more explicit and as time went on, he lost a lot of the models that were hired, either because of scheduling conflicts or because the scene had gotten too explicit and was so different from what they originally agreed to that they left. And that's also why the sex choreographer has credit, but she doesn't have credit because when it got too explicit, she also left because she was like, this isn't really dance anymore. She did contribute a lot to the final product, even if it wasn't exactly what she had been rehearsing. A lot of this information I'm getting from a Vulture article, an oral history of an orgy staging, that scene from Eyes Wide Shut, Stanley Kubrick's divisive final film by Bilge Ibery. You know what I want to talk about before we move on? How would you approach this scene as an intimacy coordinator?

SPEAKER_04 19:10

Mmm. Oh my God. With so much prep. 500 years of prep, I would need to reach out to every single background actor and check in about these very specific requests. If anyone has an allergy to paper mache or any kind of adhesives or whatever the masks are made of, not going to work. Including Tom Cruise, including all of the people who are not actively engaged in the physical action of simulated sex or the simulated simulated sex, because the people who are the voyeurs are still participating in the action. And it's important that they also know what to expect when going into the space and that it fits within their boundaries to do so. I would probably request multiple ICs. Yes. There's a lot of background, and I would say maybe 10 per intimacy coordinator. You have to choreograph every single action. I would have to make sure that it is within boundaries for the couples to be together. And then I would make sure that they're all rogued the second we walk away from them. Make sure that the masks are being seen and that space between the mask and let's say genitalia for those oral simulation simulations. It's important that we as the audience see that there is space. That is also a slight difference from what we normally do. So all that to say, it's very complicated. I would need to like spend 30 minutes just in my head thinking about what is the step-by-step, totally valid, and I would have a similar approach.

SPEAKER_01 20:47

Would probably have another IC just be in charge of background. And I'll probably stay on like principle, you know. So Tom Cruise and Mysterious Woman. Divide and Conquer. Because it's a lot of different things to do. And it would also be important to address, especially with the background actors who may not be familiar with Stanley Kubrick's reputation, letting them know, like he is known for doing a lot of takes. So whatever you're agreeing to do, you are likely going to be requested to do it at least this many times. So having that be a part of the consent process.

SPEAKER_04 21:24

It's really great when you have that information ahead of time. Even just in initial director conversations, just checking in about how many seconds do you think that they will be doing this particular action, not in the final cut of the film, but with the actors physically standing there, so that we can give them a general gist.

SPEAKER_01 21:42

And I would have set a rhythm for the simulated sex. So we were on the same page.

SPEAKER_04 21:48

And if you're gonna do erratic movement, then make some kind of signal like I'm going to squeeze your thigh as I'm moving in, so you know when to move, especially if you're not able to look at the other person.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

Let's get to the spice scale. Welcome to the Spice Scale, our not so scientific way of rating intimacy scenes based on consent and power dynamics, technical craft and coordination excellence, and heat factor. Each category gets a score from one to five, with five being the highest. Then we add it all up to give the scene a final letter grade. Ariel. How about we start with consent and power dynamics?

SPEAKER_04 22:28

I would love to. The consent levels are portrayed well in the scene, but they are really tricky in the scene because you have an invite-only event, but then there is this sort of sinister undertone of are all of the people here voluntarily or not? Because it seems that some of the women potentially are in danger, or maybe Tom Cruise is in danger. So while they've been invited and they have agreed to attend, it doesn't mean that they necessarily are consenting to the activities. Also, sort of told by that grip of her arm in that very beginning moment we saw where the man takes her away up the stairs. So consent-wise, dicey, but power dynamics, very clear who is in charge here and who is not.

SPEAKER_01 23:19

I completely agree about the power dynamics, especially with the costuming. The women are virtually naked. They have a tiny thong on the heels and a mask, and that's it. The men are not only fully clothed, but they're also cloaked and masked as well.

SPEAKER_04 23:39

But I also think that because there's this undercurrent of potential trauma going on and maybe non-consent, it's it's a little muddied. So I kind of want to knock off some points, but I think that also is just a context within the full film as well.

SPEAKER_01 23:57

A lot of this movie is about mystery and subtlety, and not everything is done very explicitly. So for me, I I would do more of a four than a three.

SPEAKER_04 24:10

I think the power dynamics are so strong through the visual storytelling. So I'm on board for that. Cool. Okay. Technical craft and coordination excellence, the staging, film coverage, modesty protection, choreography, and overall execution of the scene. I don't think it's great, but it's interesting. Yeah. It is really interesting to see simulated, simulated sex. The scenes where it's not uh simulated, simulated, where it's just simulated sex, and we are assuming that the folks on screen are having penetrative sex. They are a little too big, they're a little too dancy, the pelvises really aren't matching rhythm-wise, kind of across the board. But the nudity is portrayed so beautifully, like in the background, particularly that orgy moment is really interesting to look at because you have all these voyeurs standing around and watching them. So maybe it would be a little bigger. As an intimacy professional, and based on my research, sex parties are a little bit like that, where people are like performing a little extra big for everybody else watching, but their pelvises don't match up, and that for me is taking like a lot out of it.

SPEAKER_01 25:24

There's a woman who's supposed to be getting penetrated by a guy, and I'm like, their pelvises aren't connecting at all. So either he's a very lucky man or something's off. And I don't know this. I couldn't find this in the research at all, but I have a feeling that's because Stanley was so uncomfortable with the scene, so was probably having a hard time giving more specific direction. Also, if you think about how many takes they probably had to do. Good for them for keeping this level of energy in the simulated sex acts. I mean, not only is it Stanley Kubrick, but you're doing a wonder, which means the whole thing is being done in one take, as opposed to being cut up between different angles. Shout out to all the background people in this scene doing the Lord's work. Outside of that, I love the staging of it. There are so many moments that look like an erotic painting, especially when we have the orgy on top of the table that people are standing around. I think that's so gorgeously done. The angles are so interesting, the shapes that people are making. And we don't get a lot of that in sex scenes, especially group scenes. I'm torn because I'm like, the stuff that we're supposed to take as real sex is so off. But then everything else is so good. I'm really torn.

SPEAKER_04 26:47

Um I feel like we should give it a three then, because Okay. We are really middling at the end of this. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I can do a three, which brings us to heat factor, the level of erotic charge or sexual tension in the scene. For me, it would be a five. It's so interesting that you say that.

SPEAKER_00 27:11

I know.

SPEAKER_01 27:13

I know.

SPEAKER_00 27:13

I feel like we're gonna disagree about this. I think we are.

SPEAKER_01 27:17

Here's why it's a five. There's so much buildup to this moment throughout the movie. The buildup to what this party is, what's going on, what is this society? We see a whole ritual. Like, there's so much that happens. It's not like he walks into the mansion and then we just walk into the orgy. Like, there's so much that happens beforehand. It's really living in the perspective of a voyeur. And I think it's doing that really well. Even if you're not someone who is a voyeur, you can appreciate the hotness of what's happening here. So I would give it a five. But you feel differently.

SPEAKER_04 27:57

I'm giving it a different number. It is a two or a three for me. Why? I don't find it sexually charged at all. I think because of the masks and the anonymity of it, because the sexual moments are so aggressive and performative. The nudity is so similar across the board. I think he really did want to just make paintings. I am Tom Cruise in this scene, and I feel like he is just wandering from room to room like a man who's just wandering a mall, and he's just like, oh, look a store. Oh, look another store. Okay. I don't feel like, no, okay, now don't get me wrong. I think that feels like blasphemy. Okay, there is a sensuality to it that I see and respect. And I think that in particular, that little orgy moment where the three women are on the chairs on the platform and they're touching each other, there's a sensuality to that. I think it just comes down to the fact that I don't know how many people are actually in the world of this film, in the world of the scene, getting satisfaction from these moments. There's no real moaning, there's no real sound, there's no body shakes. I don't see pleasure as much as I see movement.

SPEAKER_01 29:35

I feel you a bit on that last point. Seems to be a popular orgy secret society. So I don't think these like incredibly powerful men would be there if it wasn't satisfying. Perhaps it is the hottest of takes. Yeah, yeah, that's a hot take. I strongly disagree. I think as a voyeur, it captures the vibe of witnessing all that's going on. I think that's part of the enjoyment of this gathering. And that's something that happens in real sex parties as well. Based on your research? Based on my research. So Stanley Kubrick, uh, as far as I know, had no connection to sex parties whatsoever. Uh, he asked someone to try to research them. I don't know how much research was done into them other than looking at pieces of art. But I think given all that, he captures it in a really great way. This like shook audiences and people still reference this scene to this day.

SPEAKER_04 30:41

We all have our own opinions about things. And I respect it for the time in which it came out that this must have been like insanity. Wow. I think this is the first time we split.

SPEAKER_01 30:53

Yeah. I know, I know. I feel like as someone who loves sex scenes in movies, this is so iconic.

SPEAKER_04 31:01

I think that we should just have our different numbers and we're just gonna give it different letter grades.

SPEAKER_00 31:07

Oh, that is spicy.

SPEAKER_04 31:10

I have to stick with five. So hot. So Morgan's letter grade is a B. Woo! I'm gonna give it a respectable three, which lands me at a D. Wow. Shots fired. I know. And for a scene I enjoyed, like the ranking system is flawed.

SPEAKER_01 31:38

No, it's perfect. I don't know what you're talking about. This is science.

SPEAKER_04 31:42

It's a perfect system that no one has ever questioned us on.

SPEAKER_01 31:46

Ooh, oh my God. I'd be so curious to hear like what listeners would think if they were to score the scene. This is your opportunity. Tell us what you think. Censored or uncensored version, whatever you can get your hands on. Do you think Stanley Kubrick might have also been demi or ace? Yes. Yes, I do.

SPEAKER_04 32:08

Because I feel like he looks at this and is like, how non-sexual can we make this sexual scene? And when I look at it, I'm not seeing sex. I'm seeing movement and passion and maybe these people are under duress. It's hard to tell. And it's not to say that there's no sensuality and that there's no sexuality to it. I've rated things high on the heat factor scale, even being demisexual, but I think he just so deeply wanted painting, painting, painting, comedia del arte to an extent, but not those characters. He wanted it to just be visually stunning, and that's it.

SPEAKER_01 32:47

It's gonna kill me if I don't mention that it's it's technically Venetian mass and not comedia del arte. I'm so sorry. I'm sorry to be the butt actually person.

SPEAKER_00 32:57

But actually, I'm too much of a nerd. I'm too much of a nerd to let that go. I'm so sorry. How fucking dare you.

SPEAKER_04 33:07

There's a a uh website called Cult Nation, and I don't know what the reality of this is at all. So take it with the largest of grains of salt. But it says some believe Kubrick was murdered because the film was essentially an expose of the secretive world of sex orgies in the upper echelon of old boys' networks, where billionaire bankers, media moguls, and royalty alike engage in anything from gay sex to pedophilia to the murder of children, and that the film was recut as a form of damage control before it was eventually released. Because he died only six days after. He was also old. He was also old. And it was a very stressful shoot. It was a very stressful shoot. Don't get me wrong. Do I think that that it's the Illuminati Epstein Island and all that?

SPEAKER_01 33:56

I mean, these places do exist. Yeah, this film was definitely making a reference to the Illuminati. Parties exist, right? There are a lot of different spaces that host sex parties or kink parties, and some are geared towards specific groups of people. So that is a real thing that he's touching on. And if you exist, don't murder us.

SPEAKER_04 34:16

Yeah, you're the best.

SPEAKER_01 34:18

Congratulations on your extreme levels of power. We are at our final segment, Position to Know, where we'll answer common questions we get about our work. Ariel, I believe we have our first audience question.

SPEAKER_04 34:32

We do.

SPEAKER_01 34:47

There are male intimacy coordinators. There are not a lot percentage-wise. Intimacy coordinators are mostly female identifying or afab people. But yeah, they exist. I know one who said that it was difficult for him to get work because of the presumption that we're there for the female actors and assuming that they would immediately be more comfortable with female-bodied intimacy coordinator. So I know that there is that bias. There are a lot that are immensely qualified. I was taught by some great male intimacy coordinators who are really talented.

SPEAKER_04 35:27

My mentor was uh Marcus Watson, who is an amazing intimacy coordinator and has worked on American Horror Story, as well as many, many, many other amazing works. There is a place for intimacy coordinators who are male. And I would love it if more men chose this profession. Dahmer had a male intimacy coordinator because you're dealing with the male psyche, you're dealing with homosexual sex. Maybe they feel more comfortable with a male intimacy coordinator. I do see that it would be harder for them. There's always space. I would love more opinions and I would love more eyes on the choreo because they're gonna come at it from a different perspective. And I think that's really valuable.

SPEAKER_01 36:10

Thanks, Mike, for your question. Yeah, thank you, Mike. And if you have a question that you would like to ask an intimacy coordinator, you can email us at faking ithepod at gmail.com. And we might just answer your question in a future episode. Before we jump out of here, uh, do you have anything to plug? You and I both worked on a vertical based on a book called Bound by Honor that recently exceeded 200 million views on Real Short. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:46

That's cool. Thanks for listening to Faking It.

SPEAKER_01 36:50

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SPEAKER_04 36:58

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SPEAKER_01 37:40

We love you, Kiki. Stay tuned for our bonus episode where we'll cover the show so many of you have been asking us to do heated rivalry. Stay real, fakers.

SPEAKER_02 38:01

Faking It with Ariel and Morgan is produced independently by Ariel Lee Cohen and Morgan Smith, edited by Ariel in social media and branding by Morgan. Our theme song is faking it by Suno AI until we get monetized, so feel free to send us a new one. Have questions, thoughts, or media recommendations? Hit us up at fakingthepod.com. Find us on all socials at faking the pod and head over to our Patreon for bonus content. Credits for the film or show we reacted to are in the episode caption.

unknown 38:27

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