Thrown in the Deep End | Brooke M. Haney Dives Into "Booksmart"

This one’s about awkward first times — featuring skinny jeans, bad geometry, and absolutely zero game.

Ariel and Morgan sit down with intimacy coordinator and author Brooke M. Haney to break down the chaotic, vulnerable, and surprisingly tender hookup scenes from Booksmart: a film that proves intimacy on screen doesn’t have to be polished to be powerful.

They get into it all:

• Why awkward intimacy can still be choreographed and is not an excuse to skip process
 • The storytelling power of wardrobe choices, body language, and messy logistics (yes, including skinny jeans and sneakers)
 • And why representation of imperfect queer intimacy matters when so many people learn about sex from movies

It’s thoughtful, nerdy, hilarious, including shop talk from kit items and choreography language to the very real production challenges of filming intimacy on beaches, in pools, and under rapidly disappearing sunlight.

Buy Brooke's book "A History of Intimacy Professionals in Entertainment" Here!

Buy Brooke's book "The Intimacy Coordinator's Guidebook" Here!

Listen to us on the podcast "Happier in Hollywood" Here!

Want to watch along? Our reaction covers the pool sequence (~1:04:00) and the bathroom hookup scene (Time Code: 1:14:42–1:18:00). We cut around the clips, so it won’t sync perfectly, but you’ll absolutely get the point. 

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CREDITS — Booksmart (2019)

Director: Olivia Wilde
Writers: Emily Halpern; Sarah Haskins; Susanna Fogel; Katie Silberman
Producers: Megan Ellison; Jessica Elbaum; Katie Silberman...
Actors: Kaitlyn Dever; Diana Silvers; Victoria Ruesga
Studio: Annapurna Pictures / Gloria Sanchez Productions
© 2019 Annapurna Pictures. All rights reserved.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Girls have three holes. And not just two. And so they're like, wait, what?

SPEAKER_03 0:06

One of the actors had glitter and it was all over that. Hi, I'm Ariel Lee Cohen. Hey, I'm Morgan Smith. And we are the hosts of Faking It with Ariel and Morgan.

SPEAKER_02 0:46

We're two intimacy coordinators here to talk about the spicy scenes you see in film and TV.

SPEAKER_03 0:51

But once again, we are three intimacy coordinators because today we have a new guest, Brooke M. Haney. Brooke M. Haney is a New York City-based intimacy coordinator, choreographer, and author, and one of the first 50 professionals recognized as qualified SAG AFTRA with credits spanning film, TV, and theater, both in the US and internationally. They're also the editor of the Intimacy Coordinator's Guidebook, and they were the intimacy coordinator for productions, including Mayor of Kingston, Law and Order SBU, and Pretty Little Liars Original Sin. We love a multi-hyphenate who's not just doing the work on set, but actively helping define what this job is. Welcome to the pod, Brooke. We're so happy to be here. Thank you. So happy to be here.

SPEAKER_02 1:38

Oh, I love your art behind you.

SPEAKER_01 1:39

Oh, yeah. Thanks. That's from a show I was in where there were visual artists live charcoal drawing the show. That's me and the thing. Thanks. Wow. That's it.

SPEAKER_03 1:50

So you've been listening to the podcast a little bit already, yeah? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:54

So much fun to listen to. Thanks for listening. We love your book too. That's one of the ones that we use all the time and refer to in our work. So thank you for putting that together.

SPEAKER_03 2:03

So tell us about that. Like, what led you to the decision to start the process of creating that book?

SPEAKER_01 2:09

I wrote it because I wanted to read it. I love that. Yeah. In the early days of IC work, you would meet with a producer and they would be like, Cool, tell me what you do. And then they would just expect that any of us could do anything. But like we can have specialties too. I felt this like hunger to learn new things. And there were all these people that were doing these cool specializations that I was like, how can I get all these really brilliant people to write one chapter? And then hopefully, for those of us that are working, it's like a resource book for what might pique our interest or what might, you know.

SPEAKER_03 2:47

There it is.

SPEAKER_01 2:48

Maybe get us excited. Yeah. Totally. And it was also a really good excuse to get to know all the people in the book, which I love building community. It's part of why I'm excited to be here with you guys. I'm excited to get to know you better.

SPEAKER_03 2:59

Yes. Likewise. The community is so good. All the intimacy coordinators in LA have like a Discord and we all talk all Dalton.

SPEAKER_01 3:08

That's pretty awesome.

SPEAKER_03 3:09

Can you tell us more about what brought you to intimacy coordination? The question that we all get many, many times.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

I was an actor before this, and I often was cast in roles that involved either physical intimacy or where the character experienced trauma. And I have a dance background and a stage combat background. I was in a touring production when I was an undergrad that did sexual abuse prevention in schools. And we taught the difference between a good touch, a bad touch, a confusing touch, and how to talk about it. I have my MFA in performance, and all of my teachers told me how to get to the place of grief and sorrow and upset, but not how to get back from it. And I started teaching at Marymount Manhattan College and was like, I want better for my students. So I worked with a group of students and alumni to workshop a warm down for actors. Theaters started bringing me in to work with their casts with this warm down. And then I came out later in life and I knew immediately I wanted to tell queer stories. And I also knew I had a straight lens. I was raised very straight. Identity didn't equal expertise. And so I took a year and every day for a year I read something or watched something or listened to a podcast or took a class all on queer sex storytelling, BDSM, and kink. And then one day a theater that I'd been working with for a while was like, Hey, will you be our intimacy director again? And I was like, Dear Google was an intimacy director. And I discovered that these things, consent and boundaries, choreography at closure, are what I'm doing. And now there is a craft. So I started taking classes and kept working, and here we are. Oh, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 5:01

Also, can we just quickly discuss how we're three queer intimacy coordinators who used to be or are still actors? Kind of amazing, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What is the craziest scene you've worked on as far as content within the project?

SPEAKER_01 5:16

I have permission from the actors and the producers. I worked on a film called Burder that takes place in a queer nudist camp. And it's a queer psychosexual thriller. There's a threesome on the beach in which two of the characters die. Whoa. And the day of shooting, we had issues. We were shooting on a like an island that you could only get to by boat. We had issues with the boat that morning. So we had to bump the scene to the end of the day, which, as you know, is not generally ideal for intimacy. So we were shooting this choreographically very difficult scene, emotionally difficult scene, and we were fighting the light. That was for sure one of the most difficult scenes I've ever experienced. And I think it came out really awesome. And the actors afterward have really positive things to say about the experience, which I'm very grateful for because time can be a coercive, and we were rushing at the end in a way that I think was professional and as safe as we could be.

SPEAKER_03 6:22

I love the phrase time is coercive. That's so very real. Stealing that. Yeah, it was steal that real, real fast. I also want to say, just for audience who may or may not be in like in the film world, first of all, gotta say, lunch is any time of day and can be whenever it is. It's just like six hours into filming, so lunch could be at midnight. Second of all, the reason it's difficult to do intimacy scenes after lunch is the actors feel full. They don't necessarily always want to, if it's some kind of implied or actual nude scene, they don't really want to take off clothing necessarily, or they sometimes don't eat, and then folks may potentially faint or have some kind of other issue or glycemic issue. After you eat, you're just tired. Everyone's just tired and slower and like a little less into what we're doing.

SPEAKER_01 7:13

Even when actors are fully prepared, sometimes these scenes can still be very vulnerable. So having to think about it all day while working on other things can be emotionally exhausting for them. Um and like getting to go and do it and then the relief of how it went so well and I actually had fun can actually move your day into a really positive rhythm.

SPEAKER_02 7:36

Yeah, you don't have like the anticipation or anxiety of a scene throughout the day. So it it can be really helpful to just like get it done, get it over, rip the band-aid off. Don't do it on the first day of filming, but do it the first day. First day, first scene. Hi, nice to meet you. We're gonna have a threesome and be murdered. The situation you described, Brooke, speaks to the importance of prep because I'm sure the conversations that you had with the actors before production, on the day when you met with them individually, and all of that made it so that even when there was pressure of, oh, we're gonna lose the light, we have to get this done by a certain time, maybe people are tired, we don't want to go into overtime. Like because you did all of that work ahead of time, it allowed the actors to get to the place where they needed to be to do their performance.

SPEAKER_01 8:25

Prep is such a huge part of our job. And because we were so far into the film, I had done intimacy scenes with all of these actors already. They'd seen the process with other actors.

SPEAKER_02 8:36

Right.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

People are more able to trust because they've seen proof that it's gonna work.

SPEAKER_02 8:41

Absolutely. And build that trust with you too. Like build that professional relationship.

SPEAKER_03 8:45

I have a question though about that. It was you said it was on the beach itself. How tell me about sand. Talk to me about all that sand.

SPEAKER_01 8:54

Well, we had a blanket that we definitely shook off between takes. Miraculously, it was not the biggest problem.

SPEAKER_03 9:02

Were they wearing modesty garments at the time as well? And prosthetics. And prosthetics. Got it. And the sand didn't get stuck to all the adhesives and stuff.

SPEAKER_02 9:12

Amazing. Kind of amazing. That is kind of phenomenal. It is like the glitter of nature where it is just like everywhere forever. So well done, you.

SPEAKER_03 9:23

I did a scene literally yesterday where one of the actors had glitter and it was all over that monastic colour. And I was like, this is the end of this.

SPEAKER_01 9:32

That's when you should maybe shoot at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_02 9:35

Yeah. Yeah. If glitter's involved, that's the exception.

SPEAKER_03 9:40

And speaking of adhesives and all that fun stuff, what is your favorite kit item?

SPEAKER_01 9:45

I really like a tagger. Like you to tag as- Also use the tag!

SPEAKER_03 9:51

I'm a huge proponent of the tag.

SPEAKER_01 9:54

Yeah. Yeah. It just feels like such a way to like give ease of movement. Um, for anyone who's listening that doesn't know what we're talking about. It's like the gun you use to tag a ticket on a piece of clothing. If you're gonna buy a piece of clothing, and we'll do it, we'll like tag a sheet to a modesty garment so the actor can roll around on the bed and the sheet kind of comes with them. What do you use it for other things?

SPEAKER_03 10:20

I mean, I'll use it if there's a rip in something and wardrobe isn't for it has not been requested for a clothes set, so I can just pop there. Um, if it's not silk or something, sheet is a great use. I've never needed to do that specifically, but I've done it with towels. Like if you have a design towels of a shower or something. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:39

Yeah, and they keep like tucking it in, but then it like unrolls and falls out, and then you just like tag it, and then we don't have to worry about it. Brilliant.

SPEAKER_03 10:46

That's a good segue into our scene work where today we are covering the film Book Smart. Yay! Brooke, what is your experience with this film?

SPEAKER_01 10:56

I just love this film. I think it's such a good queer film. And I hadn't watched it in years before you all asked what film I would like to do, and I was like, oh, Book Smart would be fun. But then I re-watched it in prep for this and was like, man, it's so good. The thing that I had remembered was that it was awkward. I've worked with directors who say, like, oh, we don't need to choreograph it because it should be awkward. And then I'm like, we can choreograph awkward. Yes. Or the expectation is just that these two characters, because they're meant to be together or whatever, are magically really good at sex. We can have boundaries too. And one of my boundaries is that when possible, I don't work on projects where underage characters are sexualized. But what I love about this film is this is about underage characters and it is about sex. And I don't think it's sexualized for the adult gaze.

SPEAKER_02 11:57

That's such a good way of putting it. Because we often hire actors who are over 18 to play high schoolers, sometimes it's easy to forget that the character is supposed to be 16. Another one of the many reasons that I love Book Smart is because it feels like that age. Like they still feel like half child, they still have that innocence, still they're still figuring things out. Yeah. And I'm like, that's so much more relatable.

SPEAKER_03 12:23

So just a little context to start. I know all three of us have watched this film and loved this film some years ago. Caitlin Deaver as Amy Ansler and Diana Silvers as Hope. This is written by Emily Halburn, Sarah Haskins, Susanna Fogle, and Katie Silverman. Produced by Megan Ellison, Jessica Ellbaum, Katie Silverman, and Jessica Barnard and David Distenfeld, directed by Olivia Wilde, woo-woo, and co-intimacy coordinated by no one, even though it's from 2019 and ICs existed at the time. So, context Amy and Molly crash Nick's graduation party after realizing their classmates got into good colleges despite partying. And Amy becomes nervous around her crash, Ryan. After drinking and feeling overwhelmed by jealousy and insecurity, Amy impulsively jumps into the pool. So we're going to start at about an hour and four minutes in. What a great um freeze frame right there. Alright, so here we go.

SPEAKER_01 13:23

So here they're going outside. And I think we're gonna see right away with how they take their clothes off. Ryan's pulling them off over sideways over their body. It's not the like smooth two hands up and over. And I love that we're just seeing her back, Ryan's back, and jumps in and it's like a cannonball, not a like beautiful dive. I think there's so much in this like hair, hands, bubbles, light, and just body parts. We're seeing her look around and swim. And like, even though we just saw the front of someone's pelvis and it took up a pretty significant part of the screen, it wasn't about that.

SPEAKER_03 14:07

I'm just struck by how many background folks are in this scene as well, and and they're all in their underwear. The amount of people you would need to speak to.

SPEAKER_01 14:16

So many. I'm also struck by how she has to keep her eyes open underwater so much. Oh my gosh. Yeah, uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_02 14:28

Totally.

SPEAKER_01 14:29

So now we see her seeing her crush with a boy. And even underwater, they have hands on each other. Like her hands are on his shoulder, his hands are around her waist, on her leg. And it's not grabby passion, it's two teenagers making out in a pool.

SPEAKER_02 14:49

Yeah, there's a little bit of hesitation between the two of them. They're not like she has her leg around him, but she's not like pulling him in close to their pelvises, or like as close together as possible.

SPEAKER_03 14:59

And now the shot just looks crowded. She's feeling stifled.

SPEAKER_01 15:02

It's she's getting out of the water, but the camera is placed to the side. So we kind of see the side of her go getting out as opposed to her face coming out, her chest. Oh, like a little mermaid. Right.

SPEAKER_02 15:17

Yeah. Oh my god, we're not like tilting down and following every inch of the front of her body. Yeah, the droplets falling and whatever.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

It feels fantastical to me. It does. But also heartbreaking. Like it feels like when she jumps in, you're in this fantastical world of possibility until the moment that she's disappointed. And then all of a sudden, it felt crowded.

SPEAKER_02 15:41

The person that her crush is with is not someone who feels so much more sexually advanced than her. Like she's the awkward one, and this is a very mature young person who feels more comfortable in their body and is moving in more like a kitty-like fashion or something. Like, she's also an awkward young person. They just happen to connect. And I feel like a lot of times we would have seen that other story. It's like, well, you're not with him because you're too innocent.

SPEAKER_01 16:09

There are people that age that are very passionate and grabby and experienced and all of that. Yeah. And the beauty of this film is that it's not that.

SPEAKER_02 16:19

I also appreciate the the wardrobe choices. Like it was full coverage underwear, there were bralettes. Like it was refreshing to see something so different. And I liked that.

SPEAKER_03 16:29

I love that Ryan is in a racerback sports bra, basically. Like we're not in a padded wonder bra situation, which would have been a very different choice and would have told a very different story. It's really interesting because a lot of the time when young queer folks are depicted, it's like they have an active disregard and dislike of the opposite sex. Whereas in this scene, you see her sort of appreciating all bodies in the space. It's directed towards Ryan, but she's just kind of in wonder about people in general and this blossoming of sexuality as it occurs and surrounds her. And I think that's very cool.

SPEAKER_01 17:08

Yeah, and it's this world that she's missed out on because she's been studying all the time. And it's that like, oh life.

SPEAKER_03 17:17

Yes. Yes, exactly. Snaps for life. Which brings us to our next scene, which is literally 10 minutes later in the film. Like, what an arc! Insanity. Context for this part of the film Amy and Molly are still split up at this party. So after the situation with Ryan, Amy has run into another character, Hope. They are experiencing their first sort of intimate moment as Amy finally sort of acts on her feelings. We're gonna start at 1142-ish. I also I just want to say, so we're watching this on YouTube right now. I'm gonna show I'm gonna show you this because I didn't know that it ever did this. This is amazing, actually. If you scrub through the bottom, it says most replayed is the scene we're about to watch. Amazing. I love it. Kind of incredible. And I feel like, see, most replayed, fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 18:16

So Amy has kissed Hope. We see her take the initiative, and then she takes the initiative to take Hope's shirt off. Together go to kiss each other. Hope asks, like, are you okay? Is this okay? Asking for consent. Amy says, We're not stopping. Hope goes to lay down, is unbuttoning her own pants. Amy's trying to pull them off, but Hope is wearing converse tennis shoes. So now there's the like time it takes to take off the tennis shoes, and it's difficult to get the jeans off now. Amy falls back pulling them off, and then she's pulling off Hope's underwear, and she's realizing she needs to take off her stuff too. We just see like her chest up as she's trying to wiggle out of her underwear under her dress and then pulls her dress off. But instead of watching her take it off, we watch Hope watching her take it off. Amy's starting to crawl on top. They both start kissing. They're kind of making out now. We see Amy's character go to reach down theoretically to do some manual stimulation. She's asking how it's going. Is it good? We can tell it's not great, but it's maybe okay, fine. I don't think that's the whole you think it is, which is great.

SPEAKER_03 19:42

My geometry was off.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

Referencing an earlier scene where uh Molly, her best friend, says, It's just what you do to yourself. You just turn it around. And she's saying, I'm I'm not used to approaching it from that angle. And then she vomits. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 20:00

I mean, luckily you're in a bathroom.

SPEAKER_01 20:02

And luckily you're in the bathroom, so we can wash it off. We see kind of from right above her bra up as she's putting her clothes back on. So good. Love the way that consent is shown in the scene. It's actually in the text, but also there's moments you see it in them like kissing and then backing up and asking for permission with their eyes, like not rushing into it.

SPEAKER_03 20:25

Morgan and I have talked about this a lot on the podcast. Consent on screen doesn't need to be. Do you consent to this activity? Yes, I do. It can just be a flicker of the eyes and a light nod or something of just like a smile. There are so many options for body language to reveal consent. And I'm just I'm blown away by this scene in particular. I also just want to say, I love that they put her on a fluffy rug so the actress doesn't have to feel the cold hard tiles beneath her.

SPEAKER_02 20:55

I think what's also nice about the consent is it's not just them checking in, like, is this okay? But it's also like truly just trying to figure it out. Yeah.

unknown 21:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:03

Do you like this? Yeah, yeah. Am I good at this? Because what especially when you're having those like really early experiences, I mean, you truly don't know. Like you haven't interacted with a lot of other bodies. You're used to just yourself. And and so you can't feel how it feels on the other end. And you also like don't want to be embarrassed or, you know, accidentally throw up on the other person.

SPEAKER_03 21:25

Yeah, that would be crazy.

SPEAKER_02 21:28

Yeah, it's really vulnerable. And it's so tempting to try to play it cool, especially if it's someone like you've been crushing on for a while, especially someone who like seems really cool. Like she didn't look at her like, oh, I can't believe you're not experienced enough. Like they understand this is where we're both at.

SPEAKER_01 21:44

I read an interview with Olivia Wilde, who directed it, that she wanted the like converse in there intentionally because I have that in my notes. Yes. Yeah, because those are the kinds of things that like you get to in real life and you're like, uh, they never have shoes in. Movies, and we do learn so much of our sex education from movies and other media. And maybe that's also why I love this film is I feel that a lot of queer sexuality has been stunted because there's so little representation of queer intimacy. And so I loved that that was part of it. The tedish shoe, love it that they actually showed that like that's gonna take a minute, and those skin tight pants are gonna be difficult to get off.

SPEAKER_02 22:26

Yes, the skinny jeans. And and you know that you bring up such a good point. That's something we also talk about on the podcast is the representation of sexuality in media. Because sex education in this country is so extremely limited, especially when it comes to queer sex, it really matters what we're showing. And if we only show people who young people immediately have the confidence and body awareness of a full adult, then people are gonna feel like if that's not my experience, and I there must be something wrong with me.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

I love that on this season of Bridgerton, they have someone that can't find climax. Both a character like manually stimulating themselves, masturbating, who can't get there and gives up, and a character that can't get there with her husband. Those are things that happen all the time for people. And normalizing it is super helpful.

SPEAKER_02 23:23

In season one, Bridgerton did a great job of showing how she truly didn't understand like how sex worked because nobody talked about it. Like she didn't understand that by her husband pulling out, he was actively trying to avoid having children with her. Yep. And now we see like, oh, I didn't even know that there was climax, let alone that it was something I was supposed to reach. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

So bringing it back to this film, I think that's the wrong hole is meant to be a butt sex joke.

SPEAKER_02 23:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:54

But I also think it could be a urethra. Like we know from later in the film that it's not. If you don't know the parts, like oh, wrong hole. There's so much that's unknown if you haven't had a good sex education.

SPEAKER_02 24:12

I remember when I was in high school having to explain to one of my guy friends that girls have three holes and not just two. And like Hina Stones are like, wait, what?

SPEAKER_03 24:25

All right. I think I think we should do some spy scale. What do you think?

SPEAKER_02 24:30

Welcome to the spy scale, or not so scientific way of rating intimacy scenes based on consent and power dynamics, technical craft and coordination excellence, and heat factor. Each category gets a score from one to five, with five being the highest. Then we add it all up to give the scene a final letter grade. We've touched on this a bit already, but let's start with consent and power dynamics, how the scene depicts consent and power in the story, and if known, behind the scenes.

SPEAKER_01 24:55

Well, I read in I think Vanity Fair, Olivia Wilde talking about how she wanted to direct an awkward sex scene, but also she wanted to direct a stimulated sex scene where it was handled the way she wished scenes had been handled for her. Actually closing set completely. And I heard an interview with the two actresses, what with Beanie Feldstein, who plays Molly, and Caitlin Dever that plays Amy, talked about how it felt like a truly closed set and she hadn't always felt that. Behind the scenes stuff was handled better than it sometimes is. And certainly to me, the consent in the scene is super clear.

SPEAKER_02 25:39

You know, even though they didn't have an intimacy coordinator, it's still an emerging field and is slowly becoming more and more of an industry standard. I really appreciate that Olivia made that effort to really close the set because I feel like you can feel it in the performance with how vulnerable the actors were being with each other, the comfort level that was there. And it's hard to get that if you don't have the right environment to get those performances. Yeah. And 2019 was very early in the movie.

SPEAKER_01 26:08

Yeah, it was just two years after the first one, right? Absolutely. And I know that Yehuda Dueñez worked with Olivia Wilde on something recently that went to Sundance. Yeah, so she's working with ICs now.

SPEAKER_03 26:21

Obviously, the consent in the film itself, very, very clear. The dynamics are very clear. They're really in that same figuring it out kind of at the same pace. There's awkwardness, but there's consent. There's even what was that one line she says, we can stop if you want, and at one point. Consent in the other scene is sort of interesting because anyone who jumps in the pool is sort of implying consent in some capacity. I don't know, for me it's a five. It's five for me.

SPEAKER_02 26:51

Yeah. Yeah. Five for me too. Yeah. And I was just thinking too, like Olivia Wilde, her breakout role was on the OC where she played a high schooler. It could have been uncomfortable to shoot those scenes, or yeah, it it's so nice that now she can like pay it forward and like give these actors an experience she wasn't able to have before. Okay. Well, let's we're kind of getting into it already, but technical craft, coordination, excellence, the staging, film coverage, modesty, protection, choreography, and overall execution of the scene.

SPEAKER_03 27:20

I do have to say I did see the top of her Amy's buttocks at the very, very last second when she's putting the shirt on, but it's again not in the very sexualized way. It felt purposeful. I actually do have a question about everybody's opinions on this. Because while I feel that the choreography is fantastic, really, for the simulated manual stimulation, I don't know that I felt the story, like the story overall was clear, but I didn't really see her arm move very much. Am I on my own on that?

SPEAKER_01 27:50

Well, I don't need her arm to move that much because it wouldn't necessarily need to move in real life. Fingers can be moving without the arm moving. I saw the shoulder move to get into place, but I didn't necessarily see was, and I think this happens all the time, and maybe we saw it in other takes, and the take didn't make the cut, but I didn't see Hope's character the moment that touch happened. Yes, the point of contact we missed.

SPEAKER_02 28:19

I saw her hand moving down. I wasn't as bothered to not have shoulder movements because I feel like we were telling the story of someone like trying to figure out and was a little more hesitant, but yeah, I didn't think there was any penetration. No, no, I I don't think they were telling that story.

SPEAKER_03 28:33

I'm not saying I need like a top like a whole shoulder roll in order to showcase them what we're looking at. We know that it was the quote wrong hole because it was stated. I don't know that it was seen on the character's face or seen like even with a slight like shift of the shoulder or some kind of elbow movement to initiate that visually. But modesty protection, definitely in the pool, amazing. Choreography in the pool was fantastic. I think this scene for me was more like a four, just because I think it wasn't one million million percent clear, but I do think that overarchingly it looked really strong.

SPEAKER_01 29:12

I will go here with you that more shoulder movement would have told a clearer story, especially with the wrong hole part. The searching. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:22

Yeah. Also, even just like a slight shift or tensing of hope's shoulders or some just like even just a touch of something to be like. Like four breath. Nope, not there. Yeah, you know, could have really sold it, I think, a little more for me. Am I?

SPEAKER_01 29:39

I'll I'll go with four.

SPEAKER_02 29:40

I want it to be a five, but I think you're correct that it's a four. Yeah. Emotionally, I want these all to be five. Emotionally, it's a five.

SPEAKER_04 29:47

Yeah.

unknown 29:48

Of course.

SPEAKER_02 29:49

For sure. All right. Last category: heat factor, the level of erotic charge or sexual tension in the scene.

SPEAKER_03 29:57

As intended.

SPEAKER_01 29:58

I think it's a five in that I think they did what they set out to do. It's not like at the top of sexiness. Yeah. But it wasn't trying to do that. I might give the pool a four. There's one moment where she swims back and we see the back of her pelvis, the underwear's kind of going into the gluteal cleft a little bit, and it felt a little like jarring.

SPEAKER_02 30:21

They've now trained the audience to see these bodies in a less sexualized way. And so then when we do something that feels a little bit more sexualized, even if it was by accident, then all of a sudden it does kind of like surprise you a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 30:34

I did see the underwear starting to shift a little bit. That didn't bother me so much because I feel like we're looking at an imperfect situation. But what I will say about the pool scene is that there is a difference between characters feeling awkward and actors feeling awkward. And I do feel like the character of Ryan and the semi-faceless man that she was with really seemed tentative to even touch.

SPEAKER_01 31:05

Agreed.

SPEAKER_03 31:05

And it seemed like they didn't even really have a pull to come together. It seemed like they just were sort of near each other, and the legs even underwater kind of supported that as well. So for me, I'm like not sold on the pull one as well. I feel you. Then as far as the manual stimulation scene, there was definitely sexual tension, unrealized sexual tension for sure. Yes. Between the two scenes, if we're averaging out, I'm a three.

SPEAKER_02 31:34

I would bring it up to a four. I feel like I hear you on the hesitancy. I read that as the characters being hesitant, like maybe it was their first time being that close to each other. So I would go down to a four. I maybe I'm biased emotionally. I just don't feel like I can give this movie a three.

SPEAKER_03 31:51

I hear you and I understand.

SPEAKER_01 31:53

Yeah. I think maybe the pool scene is an example of if there had been an IC, it might have been done a little better. So for the director, that's a lot of what we're focused on. I'm with you that that story wasn't clear. I don't know why the two of them started making out or what kind of charge there was between them. So I would give the pool maybe a 3.5 because I think they mostly did what they set out to do with the fantasticalness. But then if you really break it down into the technical, it's like, well, no.

SPEAKER_03 32:36

Through the body language, we don't know the history of Ryan and Boy. We don't know the familiarity between them. We don't know if she did she jumped in the pool and she's like, you, and then they come together. We don't know if they're together in outside of the pool. We are coming from the perspective of Amy, and she doesn't know their level of familiarity either. So that also could be very purposeful. Ultimately, I like the 3.5 idea.

SPEAKER_02 33:02

Um I'll give. I'll give to the 3.5. That's okay. 3.5 to go crazy.

SPEAKER_03 33:09

Heard, and that lands us at a B.

SPEAKER_01 33:18

B for Book Smart.

SPEAKER_03 33:20

B for Booksmart. Although shocking that Booksmart didn't get it, A being Booksmart as it is.

SPEAKER_01 33:28

I love how we broke it down the way you all do with your spice scale. But if we were just looking at like how great is this for queer representation, then it's an A. Oh, absolutely. And it did it so well.

SPEAKER_03 33:40

Like these scenes matter because it basically changed how sapphic scenes could look, like with the awkwardness and everything. It shows how not all sex, not all queer sex is perfect and everyone orgasms every time. You know, this proves awkward first hookups are true for everyone and not just the straights.

SPEAKER_02 34:00

It was the queer female super bad that I needed when I was that age. Yes, 100%. Wait, Brooke, when you watch things as an audience, like are you able to kind of turn off a little bit of the icy brain and just like react? Or do you feel like you still have the icy brain like fully on?

SPEAKER_01 34:19

I have the icy brain on. Honestly, when I was watching the pool scene, I was thinking, how many towels did we need for this to be? Because that's always my first thing when there's a scene that involves water, is I go to production and say, we're gonna need a lot of towels. Yeah. We're gonna need as many towels as you want takes.

SPEAKER_02 34:40

I just was dealing with this last night. We were doing a rain scene and the night before we had done a shower scene, and I was like, we need so many towels because they need a dry towel between every take. We can't just keep giving them the same wet towel between because they're gonna get cold. Even if the water is warm, they're gonna get cold so fast. And we need more than one robe because their robe is gonna get wet.

SPEAKER_03 35:00

The water needs to be heated, which is a question I also ask in all prep work because sometimes it isn't heated, and then no matter how many towels you have, the actors get hypothermia like they did one time on is that I was on. Yeah. Isn't it so amazing though when you're at monitor and the actors do an incredible job and you're like, yes, look at so totally? Oh my god. Yes, the greatest feeling. I'm like, ah, you have to stay quiet, but you're like amazing. All right, thank you so much for joining us. I know you have some plugs, possibly a new book you'd like to talk about.

SPEAKER_01 35:41

Sure. So I have two books out. I have the Intimacy Coordinator's guidebook that we talked about. And then in July uh or August 1st of last year, a history of intimacy professionals and entertainment came out, which was very much my love letter to the industry. And I just yesterday got an offer for my third book from a publisher.

unknown 36:06

So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:07

I haven't seen crafted it yet, but I will accept an offer for that book soon. And I'm very excited about it. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 36:15

Congratulations. We can't wait for it. Well, thank you so much for joining us, Brooke. Thanks for taking the time. We know you're really busy. It was a pleasure having you. We'd love to have you again. Thank you for having me. This was so fun.

SPEAKER_03 36:28

Yay! Happy! I'm so grateful that you were able to share your time with us.

SPEAKER_01 36:34

I love getting to know the two of you better. You have bring such joy to this podcast. I really appreciate you both, and I hope you have a wonderful evening.

SPEAKER_02 36:46

I love amazing. What a lovely human.

SPEAKER_03 36:49

I really felt like they got us. You know what I mean? Like we were all on the same page. We're like queer intimacy coordinators. I'm from New York. They were all actors. Like it's just, it's, it was beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 37:03

I love meeting other intimacy coordinators. I feel like no matter what our background is or whatever, we can find some common ground. It's always really nice when you meet someone who you feel like has like a similar approach to the work. And they do approach this with so much joy.

SPEAKER_03 37:19

I loved their choice of book smart. I don't think it was something on our list initially. And then when when it was recommended, we were like, Abso freaking lutely, this is the greatest.

SPEAKER_02 37:30

I really appreciate that they chose the swimming pool scene because I don't know that I would have chosen to discuss that, but I really appreciated them choosing that and having us do that first because it does establish how we're showing young people in a non-sexualized way. Even though this is a movie where they have sexual experiences. Man, could ruin the shit out of the scene, and we just have like all these like slow tilts up the body, and we're in these like lacy push-up bras and tiny underwear, and we're whipping the hair around, you know.

SPEAKER_03 38:09

I can't believe we forgot to ruin it again. If I were to ruin both scenes, just kill all the awkwardness, just only smooth, only chill, and they spit in each other's mouth, which is a thing that happens, I feel like, in almost every queer scene I don't understand. All sapphic scenes have like one character spits in the other character's mouth, and they're like, Oh, I haven't been noticing that trend.

SPEAKER_02 38:33

Is that you're gonna see it all the time now? Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 38:37

You're gonna see it in everything.

SPEAKER_02 38:39

It is so funny how certain things get trendy. Like there was a while where there was a lot of choking. Now there's a lot of like fingers in the mouth. Fingers in the mouth is happening in a lot of intimate scenes.

SPEAKER_03 38:50

All the time. Like finger in the mouth. Sometimes it's stuffed on, sometimes it's not, but it's always like there's a lot of hands in mouths.

SPEAKER_02 38:55

And I'm like, Sometimes it's just there.

SPEAKER_03 38:57

Or just like finger goes across the lip, or finger like pulls the lip down, or or they brush their teeth with the finger. Nothing sexier than that. Anyway. Yeah. Thank you so much for listening to faking it. This episode's research and context was done by me, Arielle.

SPEAKER_02 39:19

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SPEAKER_03 39:27

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SPEAKER_02 39:56

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SPEAKER_03 40:11

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SPEAKER_02 40:32

This episode was produced by Erie Lee Cohen, social media and branding by Morgan Smith. Our new theme song is faking it by my guests. Thank you, Mike, for guessing us that new theme song. Yeah! Yeah. Dad jokes. Dad jokes. Credits for the film where show we reacted to are in the episode caption. Stay real, fakers.

SPEAKER_04 40:56

Woo!