Hardcore Vanilla | The Unhinged Sex Scenes of "Buffy The Vampire Slayer" Explained

👉 BIG OLD SPOILERS AHEAD! YOU'VE BEEN WARNED!

The Buffy reboot/reimagining isn't happening for now. We are devastated. So naturally, we need to talk about Buffy and Spike in season 6. 

Ariel and Morgan are finally diving into Buffy the Vampire Slayer where things are darker, messier, and include a whole lot more property damage 👀.

From literally breaking a house down during sex to invisible hookups to whatever the hell is happening on that balcony… they have thoughts.

They get into it all:

•  The iconic Buffy/Spike “Smashed” scene: why it’s so hot and makes zero logistical sense 
•  How the show tries to portray Buffy’s rock bottom through sex (and where it succeeds vs. fails) 
•  The invisibility scene as a surprisingly perfect example of how simulated sex actually works on set
•  Why the show keeps saying Buffy and Spike are kinky… while showing the most vanilla execution imaginable 
•  The difference between toxic intimacy vs. BDSM, and why those are not the same thing 

Plus: pants continuity crimes, mystery penetration logistics, and a full breakdown of our personal histories with Spuffy.

Want to watch along? Our reaction covers "Smashed” (House scene): ~00:39:39, “Gone” (Invisibility scene): ~00:28:08, and “Dead Things” (Balcony scene): ~00:20:25 We cut around the clips, so it won’t sync perfectly, but you’ll absolutely get the point. 

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CREDITS — BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
Creators: Joss Whedon

“Smashed” (Season 6, Episode 9)
Director: Turi Meyer
Writers: Drew Z. Greenberg; Rebecca Rand Kirshner; Steven S. DeKnight

“Gone” (Season 6, Episode 11)
Director: David Fury
Writers: David Fury; Rebecca Rand Kirshner; Steven S. DeKnight

“Dead Things” (Season 6, Episode 13)
Director: James A. Contner
Writers: Steven S. DeKnight; Rebecca Rand Kirshner; Drew Z. Greenberg

Actors (featured in discussed scenes): Sarah Michelle Gellar; James Marsters; Nicholas Brendon; Emma Caulfield; Alyson Hannigan
© 1997–2003 Mutant Enemy, Inc. / 20th Century Fox Television. All rights reserved.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

He's like, some of the things we've done together I can't spell. I'm like, like what? You're always in missionary? Is his spike spiking through her pants? Hi, I'm Ariel Lee Cohen. Hey, I'm Morgan Smith. And we are the hosts of Faking It with Ariel and Morgan.

SPEAKER_03 0:19

We're two intimacy coordinators here to talk about the spicy scenes you see in film and TV. So Kim and I actually started watching that show, School Spirits. I've seen that show. I think I enjoyed that show. I got sucked in. I saw the ads for it and I was like, okay, like, whatever. And then I started watching it two episodes in. I was like, what is gonna happen next?

SPEAKER_02 0:42

I think that show only got one season, though, didn't it?

SPEAKER_03 0:46

No, they're going into their fourth.

SPEAKER_02 0:51

Well, I've only seen the first season a long time ago, apparently. And that's how that goes. It's all good. What's up with you? I have been watching Outlander with Lee. We're on the first season. I've watched season five. He's never seen it before. You've never seen Outlander. No, just for that practice episode we just for that one practice episode. Exposure. The first season is a lot of, oh no, Blank has been kidnapped. Let's go get them. And then they get them, but it causes more problems. And then someone else gets kidnapped. Oh no, we have to get them. And then we get them. Oh no, we've caused more problems. Oh no, they've been kidnapped. Like that's the entire season. And season two is a little bit more like playing political games, and it's a little more like the nobility versus the highlands. And then season three is a little more like island adventure vibes. And then season four is a little more like colonial America. And like then they're just sort of in colonial America for a while. Oh, weird. I feel like this is gonna be a really long episode talking about Buffy, so I feel like we shouldn't jump in. I see your Sunnydale t-shirt. Oh, I'm ready. Yeah. And we're today finally covering Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Yes!

SPEAKER_03 2:15

Now, Morgan, what's Buffy to you? Everything. I love Buffy the Vampire Slayer. I came to it later in life, but then once I started watching, I was obsessed, and now I have my Buffy shirt. I know we're doing this in honor of the reboot that officially is not happening as of this past week. I know.

SPEAKER_02 2:37

We felt as a tribute to Buffy, the great show that we both love and adore, that it would be worth it to share our feelings and opinions and thoughts on it. For me, Buffy was my favorite show of all time. I have a Buffy tattoo. I love Buffy. Wait, what's your Buffy tattoo?

SPEAKER_03 2:54

I don't know if I've seen that.

SPEAKER_02 2:55

Yes. You have not seen it. It's hidden. Oh, oh. Where is it? On my upper hip. So it's just sort of not readily available, but it is a heart with a stake through it and it says BTVS on it. I've seen James Marsters in concert two separate times. That is next level. I had never really heard of it, or if I had heard of it, I just didn't care about it. My brother had seen the show, and he was like, I think you'd really like this show. So he decided to show me the musical episode. I went to school a couple days later, and my friend Emily basically I was talking to her about how I'd seen the show, and she was like, Oh, you like that show? I'm like, Oh, I loved the musical episode. It's so good. She's like, Oh, well, if you like Spike, there's a lot more sex scenes that you can enjoy if you keep watching it. And I went, What? I've never downloaded in my life. But if I had downloaded this show, for example, in theory, allegedly, it would have been on a laptop that was given to me that I then destroyed by trying to download 144 episodes of this show. But when I was trying to download it at the time, it'd be buffering, which for the show Buffy is hilarious. It'd constantly be buffering and trying to like download and download. So I would watch the same minute 20 times over trying to get through the episode. So it became kind of a weird fixation for me over the course of like a month and a half. So you're familiar. I'm familiar. I've heard of it. I've heard of those. So for reference, this is a show that went from 1998 to 2003. It is created by Joss Whedon. The show has experienced some controversy over the years, but the show itself is a great show. And I will go to my grave with that screen. It's still true. It's still a great show. It is. It's based on the movie starring Christy Swanson in 1992, and they decided to make it a TV show, and it was seven seasons, and then almost a s almost a reimagining reboot situation, but then never mind. So today I want to talk mostly about season six.

SPEAKER_03 5:04

Ooh, yes.

SPEAKER_02 5:07

The darkest season. And it started out on a network that didn't really need anything from Buffy, didn't need it to be any kind of specifically sexually driven anything. After season five, they went to a new network, and the new network really wanted them to have it a little bit more sexy, a little bit more, oh, like Buffy's out of college now, and to the point where Sarah Michelle Geller ended up telling production, I feel like I've lost the character of Buffy, because this has gotten so dark and so far removed from where we started.

SPEAKER_03 5:39

In case there are people who are not familiar with the show, Buffy, can you give a general context of the show and what Spike and Buffy are? Yes.

SPEAKER_02 5:49

Okay. Oh my lord. Okay, all right. I'm gonna break this down for y'all. In every generation, there is a chosen one. She alone will stand against the vampires, the demons, and the forces of darkness. She is the slayer. Buffy is this vampire slayer of her generation. Although that's not even really true with season six, but I'm not getting into that. She has super strength, she has heightened senses, and her job, which has been preordained by mystical forces, is that she's going to fight the evils of this world. Without spoiling too much, something has happened to Buffy. And she is now feeling othered from her family and friends and the people she normally confides in. The only person that she's really connecting to is this vampire Spike. Spike used to be a badass vampire, but oh my god, there's so much. A government procedure has tamed him down a little bit, so now he can't really hurt human beings anymore. He can only hurt demons. And this has sort of confused his system to the point where he has not only seen Buffy as an ally, but now as a potential mate for himself. He feels that he is in love with her, and Buffy is finding comfort in him, but also she still hates him because he's still a vampire and sort of representative of everything that she is against. That being said, we're gonna start with the most iconic simulated sex scene in the show, and you know, of course, what I'm talking about. I sure do.

SPEAKER_03 7:26

Why don't you tell me the name of the episode? Oh, it's Smashed, where uh Buffy and Spike smash.

SPEAKER_02 7:33

Yes, yes, exactly. They shamash. This episode Smashed is season six, episode nine. It aired in 2001. Context, like we said, this is season six, and a lot has happened. Buffy is depressed and he is convenient. This is years of sexual tensions sort of coming to a head with two extremely super powered people.

SPEAKER_03 7:56

Just because it's specifically helpful to know for this scene, one of her powers is also she can heal really quickly.

SPEAKER_02 8:02

And vampires can also heal quite quickly.

SPEAKER_03 8:05

And they're also super strong.

SPEAKER_02 8:08

Super strong, super stamina, perhaps. Yeah, but we'll get into that. Yeah. So it's written by Drewzy Greenberg, uh, Rebecca Kirschhner, Stephen S. Denite. It was created by Joss Whedon and it was directed by Turi Mayer. This is going to be starring Sarah Michelle Geller as Buffy Ann Summers and James Marsters as Spike. So we are starting at 3939.

SPEAKER_03 8:34

Spike and Buffy are fighting. She throws him into a set of stairs. They're in some kind of abandoned house in Sunnydale. They're fighting each other. Buffy has thrown him into a brick fireplace because she's very, very strong. You're in love with Payne. I'm in love with Pain. He throws her onto the floor. Now he's standing over her. She pushes him away by his face, throws him into a column. They are fucking this house up. She's moved his arms away, she throws him against another wall. Every time he's throwing against a wall, the plaster girl, she kisses him. Big hard kiss. Whoa, passionate. She breaks the wall behind him. She has her arms around him, holding his head. They throw against a wall. They're going into another wall, still kissing. The walls are starting to crack. She pushes him away, kisses him again aggressively. He picks her up. She has her legs wrapped around him. We hear a belt buckle being undone. And a zipper. And a zipper. She's having sex with him and she's moving up and down without a wall behind her because she's very strong. Now he's having sex with her against the wall. We can see that her leather pants are still all the way on and zipped up. But the house is falling apart. The roof is coming down. He's still supposedly having sex with her through the leather pants. They fall through a floor. Go down several floors. She stays on top of him. They're looking at each other. She's above him. And that's the scene. This is the scene that we have talked about. This is something that I talk about when I'm like, here's an additional benefit of an intimacy coordinator. We have this epic sex scene. They go through the trouble of adding in post a very distinctive sound of a belt buckle being undone, of a zipper going down on Spike's pants. And then they have a big moment where it's very clear that penetration is supposed to be happening. She has a big inhale. He's looking in her eyes. He's breathing in too. They're both like, I can't believe we're actually doing this. And then we cut to a wide, and we can see that her very tight early 2000s leather pants are fully on, pulled up over her butt. I can almost see that the zipper's closed, but it doesn't matter because she's supposed to have internal genitalia. And how is he doing this? Is his spike spiking through her pants?

SPEAKER_02 11:12

This isn't the story they're telling, but the only way that this works is if he ripped her pants between the thighs. That is the only way that this happened this way. And we do not hear a rip sound, we hear a zipper, we hear a buckle, we do not hear a ripping of the pants. So nothing has happened. The physicality of the sex that is happening does make sense, minus the pants. Like if they didn't show that one wide, it would have worked for me. She's raised pretty high up, and then she comes down. The facial reactions are facial reactioning. Breath is good, eye contact is good. And then even when they fall through the floor, I mean that part isn't sold perfectly. She just kind of leans on top of him. I feel he would have broken his penis, but that's fine. No, but his penis also has super strength, Ariel. You're right. I'm so sorry. He has a super strength penis, and he that's the story we're telling, and he's fine, and she's fine. Great. Her vaginal muscles are working on overtime. But yeah, the pants are such a problem, and it would have worked so well. And the sexual tension is so great, and it's iconic. Like they break a house down with their sex. Remember when we watched Breaking Dawn, the Twilight movie, and he breaks everything, and it's like, why? Nothing's happening. This doesn't make sense. This makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 12:37

It's also different from Twilight Breaking Dawn because they're both super strong beings. So I'm not worried about Buffy's safety because I know that she is equally, if not more powerful, than Spike. In this scene, they seem to be telling the story that they're equally matched. So unlike Bella, who's just lying on her back in a bed helpless, as the vampire like breaks a window over her head, and she seems so passive and helpless. They're both like really active. They're both fucking the house down.

SPEAKER_02 13:11

Yeah, this is an example of true angry sex that has been personified so big into this building crashing down, but it's also a metaphor because this is Buffy's defenses falling. Beautiful. Thank you. I'm a poet. I actually would like to move on to season six, episode 11, which is called Gone. So this came out in 2002. So this is several episodes later. Buffy and Spike have continued their semi-toxic sexual relationship, but they are keeping it a secret. And due to a malfunctioning invisibility ray, Buffy accidentally has become invisible. I know. I know it. Yeah. Buffy's friend, I know. Buffy's friend Xander looks for her when he realizes invisibility might actually even be dangerous for Buffy. So we're gonna see the late Nicholas Brendan as Xander. Once again, Sarah Michelle Geller is Buffy and James Warsters as Spike. And our time code is going to be 2808. Gone was directed by David Fury, written by David Fury, Rebecca Kirshner, and Stephen Este Knight.

SPEAKER_03 14:19

Xander is walking down into the basement of the mausoleum. He sees Spike in almost a push-up position, thrusting, but there's no one beneath him. He has a sheet covering his lower half.

SPEAKER_01 14:33

What does it look like on his bed? I'm exercising, huh?

SPEAKER_03 14:37

And now he's doing push-ups, and we hear Buffy making noises. He brings the sheet up over him. He's sitting on the edge of the bed now with the sheet still covering his lower half. Sander looks confused. Now we see his earlobe being tugged. We can hear Buffy is trying to nibble at him. Now he's getting pulled the other way. He's trying to contain his excitement. He hits behind him to move her away. Sander is picking up a little bit on what's going on. Spike is still trying to elbow whatever is behind him subtly. And now he threw a shoe behind him, and we can see that Buffy's body now. We're sitting pretty low on his stomach, I have to say. Yeah. We are we're seeing that V. He walks over to the bed. We're still just blocking where his modesty garment would be. We are very, very low on his front. It's really good though. Really, really good. Right where the pubic hair would start. She's thrown the sheet off, and now we don't see her. He's not sure where she is. Camera's moving up. Yeah. He has his arms out around her. Probably where like her shoulders would be. We're looking over his shoulder at invisible buffies, who we can't see at all as an audience.

SPEAKER_01 16:02

I can't have all of you. I'd rather.

SPEAKER_03 16:04

And now he's looking down at his pelvis.

SPEAKER_01 16:08

Sorry, we'll stop there.

SPEAKER_03 16:11

It's so good. It's so good. James does a really commendable job in this scene about being incredibly specific with where Buffy is, what she's doing, the earlobe pull. I don't know if they did that practically or if there was like some kind of effect. Like it looked like his earlobe was a little bit bigger, so they might have put something on top of his ear and then had like a fishing wire move it. Or yeah, maybe something that moved independently. Practically speaking, on the day, he was doing this fully by himself with air and was showing where she is, what she's doing. And we had such a sense of where her presence was, both because of his performance and with the camera movements, because they shot it like she's still there in person, which was really good.

SPEAKER_02 16:55

I also think a lot of people ask us, in particular, intimacy coordinators, how like do you fake sex on screen? I would argue that this is a perfect example of what is actually happening, more or less. Granted, you would have your scene partner potentially underneath, but they're really just kind of doing push-ups above them, maneuvering the hips. And I also thought his hip movement was really strong.

SPEAKER_03 17:20

So good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:21

Like you do that sort of kettlebell swinging of the hip movement. I was like, with the slow sort of push-up of the chest. It was really, really well done. The my biggest gripe with this scene is that there is no pullout moment at all. He just exists out of her as he stands up with the sheet. And I'm also not saying that we need a big thing, even the smallest hip jerking out or something would have been better for me just to showcase that authenticity. I also think logistically, maybe he would want to put a hand in front of his genitalia over the sheet, because presumably he would be very erect in this situation. Yes. Unless the sight of Xander turns him off so much that it's like which boom. It's possible. Possibly. Possibly.

SPEAKER_03 18:12

Very possible given Xander's character. Also, they establish in the show that vampires don't have blood. Maybe it's Regamortus that sets in. And then sets out. Weirdly, I have had this conversation before.

SPEAKER_02 18:26

It's important. You know, vampires in this world drink blood, and then the blood courses through the body, providing life in some way.

SPEAKER_03 18:36

Got it. Got it, got it, got it. It's not blood that's like his own blood that his heart is pumping. Okay, fine. I mean, I'll allow it either way. The other thing I want to point out is when he's doing his push-ups and undulating to indicate that he's like thrusting in and out of Buffy, the actor has no anchor point to use. And yet he keeps hitting the same exact target every time, which is incredibly hard to do because he truly had nothing there.

SPEAKER_02 19:04

Nothing to work with.

SPEAKER_03 19:05

Yeah. Because we see him like also get up really quickly. And it's not like they could have hidden something under the sheet.

SPEAKER_02 19:11

The difference between him having some kind of level of emotional sex with Buffy, and then Xander walks in and he's just sort of doing push-ups, and you hear Buffy's priceless. So good. Because the motion is totally different. It's much more like this. I love it.

SPEAKER_03 19:30

It's so good. Yeah, because now all of a sudden he's like, I have to make it look more like push-ups than what I would actually do when I'm tenderly making love to Buffy.

SPEAKER_02 19:40

But I also can answer my own question, maybe even that like the pull-out moment is possibly during the actual push-up moments, and that's part of the i sound.

SPEAKER_03 19:50

Could be. True. True, especially if he does it quickly.

SPEAKER_02 19:53

I also want to talk about something with this scene in particular. Yeah. Also, all simulated sex scenes following Smashed and Wrecked and all those things. And Double Meet Palace, which I'm not watching because I hate that episode. They're constantly referring to the fact that Buffy and Spike have this very kinky, like very hardcore sex experience together. But every time you see them having sex, it's very slow and sensual and lovely. And they're like under a bunch of rugs and there's handcuffs and they're there. But like in season seven, he's like, some of the things we've done together I can't spell. I'm like, like what? You're always in missionary.

SPEAKER_03 20:33

It is the most like vanilla missionary position. And I don't know if some of that is a function of it being a network show. I can't remember at the time what other content UPN was showing in terms of how risque it could be. But that's also something that I think happens a lot in projects where people mistake having a little bit of aggression in sex as kink and thinking like, wow, that's crazy. It's wild. And it's one thing if we never see it on camera and you're just talking about it, but it's another when you're like consistently showing the most vanilla sex.

SPEAKER_02 21:12

Going off of the BDSM conversation, and I'm gonna try not to make this extremely long as a soapbox because you know I can get into it. Me too, I do. It's Ariel's BDSM corner.

SPEAKER_03 21:23

I'll make it Oh my god, yes. We need like a child show like theme song for like Ariel's BDSM corner. Sit down, kids. And then there's like one human puppy there.

SPEAKER_02 21:37

Hi, everybody, welcome to Ariel's BDSM corner. I have puppets who are gonna show you, whatever. Don't think I won't. Don't think I don't have puppets in my house. But okay, okay. The idea of being able to perform BDSM and actively participate in BDSM. Is surrounded by the ability to trust your scene partner, your you know, sexual partner. There is a moment where Spike holds up handcuffs and he's like, He's like, Do you trust me? And she says, Never. And then they presumably have sex with the handcuffs anyway. Their relationship is supposed to be toxic. Their relationship is supposed to be Buffy hitting rock bottom, but then the show romanticizes it to such a significant degree that it's like, is what they're doing kinky? Maybe. Is it a proper BDSM the way that it should be done? No, no, it isn't. Do we see any reference to them interacting in that way? No, having any conversations about anything? No aftercare? No, nothing. Spike and Buffy have a toxic, toxic relationship in season six, to the point where Sarah Michelle Geller has gone on record saying we lost Buffy as a character. And all of that, I believe, kind of came to a head in the next scene that I'm going to show, which is season six, episode 13, entitled Dead Things. Directed by James A. Contner. It was written by Stephen S. Denite and Rebecca Kirshner and Drew Z. Greenberg. And we're starting 20 minutes 25 seconds. Here we have Sarah Michelle Giller as Buffy, James Marsters as Spike, Nicholas Brendan as Xander is also present, and Emma Caulfield as Anya, and Allison Hannigan as Willow, and but they don't speak. They're just kind of also present. Context. Spike and Buffy's sexcapades have frankly gotten a little dark. She goes to the local bar with her friends to dance it out, but finds herself drawn to the dark.

SPEAKER_03 23:46

We are at the bronze. This is the club that everybody hangs out at, where we I mean, I don't know what else to call it. So she's looking down at everyone dancing below her. She's looking wistful. We hear Spike. He walks up behind her. They're both looking down at everyone dancing, having a great time. Kind of swing dancing, because that was cool then. He takes his hand and caresses her arm. He puts his hand down. We see him going up her skirt a little bit. She's taking a lot of inhales. He's manually stimulating her. She makes a mo oh no, I think he's penetrating her. Even though his pants didn't do anything. He wants her to look at them while he's having sex with her right above. And they're not so far away that no one would be able to see if they just looked up. He's whispering in her ear. That's the problem I have. And they're slowly humping, slowly undulating. I think because we're trying to set a mood of how sad and dark things are.

unknown 24:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 25:00

I hate this scene. In every scene we've ever seen, that balcony in the bronze, you can see it very easily from below. Everything that's happening up there. He's like, look at your friends hidden in the dark with me. I'm like, you are right there. Second thing, I have no idea what the story is with the simulated sex. I don't know if he's fingering her. I don't know if he's fingering her from in front where her skirt is all the way up and everyone can see it. I don't know if he's lifted her skirt and has gone behind her. I don't know if he's penetrating her with his penis. I have no idea what's happening.

SPEAKER_03 25:33

It's a decidedly confusing scene because they make a point of showing his hand going down her left hip. And then they show his hand sliding up her thigh with the hem of her skirt starting to come up with it. His hand is in the front of her thigh. So you're like, okay, obviously he's going in front and he's probably manually stimulating her. But then he starts undulating behind her, and we don't see his shoulder moving. So it's not like he's undulating while he's manually stimulating her, which could be a thing. So now it feels like it's implied that he's penetrating her, but when there was no unzipping, unbuckling, and Spike. Which they made a point. Yeah, they made a point in other scenes. Also, Spike always wears leather pants, like tight leather pants, because it's the early 2000s. Now they're having sex. She hasn't lifted up at all. So I don't think she's even at the proper height for him to be penetrating her either anally or vaginally. She hasn't adjusted her hips at all, so she could be against him. I don't know how curvy his penis is supposed to be. It's a you. It's like a full boomerang where I can just get in there. If you're not familiar with the layout of the bronze, which is their local bar slash small concert venue slash cafe. I would say the balcony is maybe 10, 15 feet away from the main floor. Like it's truly not that far. It's right there. And it just has really simple iron railings. It's lit. One person just needs to look up to see them. And I understand how that's sexy for Buffy and Spike in this moment, but I just don't believe that nobody sees them. It's a very full day at the bronze.

SPEAKER_02 27:25

Yeah. I'm wondering if the story, poorly told, is that he is manually stimulating her from the front while grinding against her buttocks. So that way it's like less his arm doing motion and more like they're both kind of doing this together, but without actually any penetration.

SPEAKER_03 27:47

Like using their hip movement to have his hands stimulate her. Maybe I still think we would get some shoulder movement from him. Also, his arm placement isn't right. Like his arm would have to be wrapped around her in order for that to be happening. I think the story they want to tell is he lifted her skirt, maybe manually stimulated her for a second, and then vaginally penetrated her from behind, especially based on her breathing and their undulating and the fact that his arm moved back. But even that's not told well.

SPEAKER_02 28:20

Maybe it's that he's penetrating her with his fingers. It's the wrong placement of everything, no matter what is happening. I, when I see this movement, don't see him penetrating her with his genitalia. I don't hear the zipper sound and the pants situation, which we've they've been very clear about in other scenes. The movements aren't big enough, frankly. And he would need to be so much lower in order to facilitate this. And she would probably be much more over the balcony, I feel like. Well, whatever story they're telling, they're telling it badly. They're telling it horribly.

SPEAKER_03 28:55

I don't know what is going on in either do you. Or all of us, like, this is going to be very little thought put into it. One thing I will say about the Buffy Spike dynamic is they do say repeatedly that this is a toxic relationship. Yes, the toxicity is hot, and sometimes people can have arousal even within a toxic relationship, or maybe because of the toxicity. Allegedly, allegedly, allegedly, there was a lot of stuff happening on set that I can imagine made this a really challenging environment to have an open conversation about what was going to happen in simulated sex scenes. It didn't sound like it was a very consent-based environment. I can see how a scene like this would get muddled in that kind of environment.

unknown 29:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:37

Should we get into the spice scale? Let's get into the spice scale. Welcome to the spice scale, or not so scientific way of writing intimacy scenes based on consent and power dynamics, technical craft and coordination excellence, and heat factor. Each category gets a score from one to five, with five being the highest, and we add it all up to give the scene a final letter grade. First, we'll start with consent and power dynamics, how the scene depicts consent and power in the story, and if known, behind the scenes.

SPEAKER_02 30:04

In the balcony scene, she says don't, and he says stop me before he does whatever is happening in that part of the story, which I still don't know. She just doesn't want him to initiate this moment, and once it's happening, she feels like she cannot stop it because of the way that it makes her feel or whatever. It's non-consent, and the power dynamic is moderately clear.

SPEAKER_03 30:28

Let's start with the first scene and kind of go through. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:31

So smashed.

SPEAKER_03 30:32

Very consenting. Power dynamics are very clear, they're very equal. And they're establishing that in the fight, choreography, before it turns into intimacy choreography. She throws them against a wall, he throws her against stairs. She throws, you know, very back and forth. So that to me is very clear. So that would be a five for me.

SPEAKER_02 30:51

I agree on that.

SPEAKER_03 30:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 30:52

Then gone. I actually have questions about the consent from Gone.

SPEAKER_01 30:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:59

Initially consenting, perhaps. Yeah. Power dynamics shift quite quickly. He does not want his ear to be touched in that way. He does not expect her to perform oral sex on him later in the scene. Thoughts?

SPEAKER_03 31:14

I kind of liken it to the heated rivalry phone scene where they're toying with each other. And even though it's not super explicit, I still feel like the scene is consensual. It's just more of like a playful teasing dynamic. Maybe if I was like teaching sex ed in high school, I wouldn't use this as a prime example. But to me, it didn't read as non-consensual or like anyone was being pushed or coerced into doing something. You know, it just felt like, uh oh, but keep going.

SPEAKER_02 31:47

I'd be willing to give that part of it a four. Yeah. I think like a four is right. All right. So then we have dead things on the balcony. I think that's a one. I think that's just failed really bad.

SPEAKER_03 31:59

Consent is really not clear. He does say stop me.

SPEAKER_02 32:03

But also, is Spike gonna cause a big thing if she says no? I mean, she doesn't really know. I don't think the threat is that he's gonna cause a thing.

SPEAKER_03 32:11

I don't know if I would give it a one. It's a muckier version of the invisibility scene where it is exhibitionism in there. This idea of we might get caught at any moment, and him saying, I know that there's a part of you that wants this, which isn't great consent-wise, but also could be part of the play. Maybe like a two or a three, because it doesn't feel like Buffy is like no throughout the whole thing and he keeps going. She says no at first, he said stop me, and she doesn't stop him. It's not the best example of consent, but it's also like she says no and then he just goes for it. You know what I mean? Wanted to give it a two? Two.

SPEAKER_02 32:48

Yeah, maybe a two. So, technical craft coordination excellence, the staging, film coverage, modesty, protection, choreography, and overall execution of the scene. Oh boy. C one.

SPEAKER_03 32:59

I mean, it's zero. No. Okay. Sorry, the pants thing really bothers me. The rest of it is so clear though. So I'm so torn because I mean, we could just give it a three. It's like middle ground. Yeah. Yeah, let's give it a three.

SPEAKER_02 33:14

The choreography is really fun. It's the film coverage that's the problem. And they could have edited around it. They chose not to.

SPEAKER_03 33:23

If they just hadn't cut to that wide where we could see her pants, and I think briefly when they fall through the floor, we see that her pants are fully on. Like it's really just two moments that they could have they could have saved us in the edit and they didn't.

SPEAKER_02 33:35

I know they wanted that wide. They wanted to see things falling whenever they wanted to see them fall through the floor. What they could have done is they could have angled James Marsters like slightly more to his back to camera, but still see over his shoulders, Sarah Michelle Geller. The pants would have made no difference. They we wouldn't have seen them at all. And then maybe they could have brought camera a little bit lower so we're not like fully above them and see her pants. Or if we were gonna do that, maybe we could have had his jacket fall on top of her. It's a duster, it can blow in the wind.

SPEAKER_03 34:05

Like, why not? We are missing any kind of like shimmying of her pants or unzipping. We only hear pants sound effects for him. So that's also a miss, though. I take back that this could have totally been saved in the edit because I'm like, we needed a little bit of movement of her hips to be like, the pants are coming off, or at least being pushed down, even if practically they don't do that.

SPEAKER_02 34:27

I still think they could have added one rip sound and the story would have been fine. She rips through her leather pants. He just rips through her leather pants right on the inside. Like they're doing stuff. We can't really see what's happening, you know. I think it could have been.

SPEAKER_03 34:42

But ripped how and with what? Because he can't take his hands and rip them because he's holding her up. Are we supposed to believe that spike's spike is so spiky that it spikes through?

SPEAKER_02 34:52

No, no, no, no, no. She has one hand up and she has one hand down. I assuming she unzips and unbuckles his pants, then she pulls and rips her own pants because she has super strength. She's and they're skin tight. They probably would rip at a light breeze. True. Yeah. So a three. Does that work? I feel like you have more you want to say.

SPEAKER_03 35:13

I want to make it a two. I'm just so mad about the pants. I am allowing a two because they go through the trouble of so clearly establishing that his pants are down and then completely bail on it for her. And if they hadn't had his very loud zipper sound and very loud unbuckling sound that was clearly added in post, then maybe I would have been like, it's a three. But like they clearly were like, hey, you know, we should make this half realistic.

SPEAKER_02 35:43

I agree with you. And I do think the zipper sound is like egregiously loud and like a lot, frankly. Um but yeah, okay. All right, a two, which brings us to Gone. I thought it was done really well. The invisibility scene, like execution-wise. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:59

That's a five for me. They executed that gorgeously. Creative too. I feel like there are so many shows where there are invisible characters. I'm sure there are other shows or movies I can't think of off the top of my head where there's an invisible person having sex with somebody else. Yeah, like a ghost or a succubus. I just love how they even do like the small movements. The earlobing, I think, is so great. And I feel like a lot of times people just think of the most obvious big things that can be happening. And I love that they were playing at all different levels. And it's so effective. Yeah, so effective. So good. So funny.

SPEAKER_02 36:31

And then dead things. I want to give it a one.

SPEAKER_03 36:36

It's so bad. They're like, we're gonna show his hand going down. We're gonna show his hand moving the skirt up, but then we're gonna completely bail on where the hand is going, what happens next. That's a one. All right, copy that.

SPEAKER_02 36:50

Heat factor. The first one. Five, man.

SPEAKER_03 36:56

Here is the thing, though. And inaccurate as it is, it's still wildly effective. I so clearly remember the first time I watched this, and I was like, wow, I have watched projects that have superhuman entities that have super strength getting together, and I have not seen anyone else like literally take a building apart. It's so amazing.

SPEAKER_02 37:25

It's truly fantastic. I remember watching the scene. As I stated earlier, I watched this minute by minute over and over again. Yes. So five for me. Absolutely. No question. That is a high five. I love it. Gone invisibility scene. I'd just give it a four, frankly. I think they want it to be hotter than it is. I do.

SPEAKER_03 37:50

I thought it was pretty hot. I I don't know how hot they wanted it to be because the scene is supposed to be comedic. And the joke is more on Spike trying to hide this thing from Xander. So it kind of has to be silly. If the scene was hot, it wouldn't have worked because then it wouldn't have distracted from Xander's confusion. So I wouldn't, I would argue for a five.

SPEAKER_02 38:10

All right. The balcony. I have no idea.

SPEAKER_03 38:16

It really wants to be hot. It's not not hot. It's not not hot. I think I would give this a three because I think they want this scene to be like so sensual and dark. And we were talking earlier about how they're talking about like how kinky Buffy and Spike are, and then the actual execution is not that crazy. Yeah. That's kind of how this scene feels to me. Where I feel like, you know, with the lighting and the music and how slowly they're moving, they're really trying to telegraph this is a hot scene, and that makes it a little less hot for me.

SPEAKER_02 38:57

I'm okay with a three. I think a three is respectable. I'm mathing, doing the math. All right, that is our first C. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 39:17

Okay. If I'm stepping back and looking at Buffy just intimacy-wise as a whole, I do think it averages a C because it has some scenes that are great and other ones that are a mess. Maddie must be part of the conversation. Hey Maddie.

SPEAKER_02 39:38

Are you Team Angel or Team Spike? No, Maddie's a Willow fan, aren't you? Oh, yes. She was she's a Willow and Tarra girl. Yeah, I mean, a scene honestly makes sense. I agree. Like, because I think it really runs the gamut, and I really did choose a lot of scenes that are kind of all over the map. The scenes matter because they've shifted the trajectory of the show completely between network pressures, pushing for more intimacy, it escalating really quickly, and then leading to real tension around the set and actor boundaries.

SPEAKER_03 40:10

We're obviously following Buffy from high school through college and then a bit of adulthood. And so, with that, naturally, we're going to see her sexual life emerge and become more and more a part of her life. And the show struggles with how to portray that, how much of it to portray, and what is the context of it. Because Buffy, as a character, does really struggle with connection to other people. Her whole thing is she feels isolated. She she is the only slayer, but she isn't the only slayer. She's the one. She is chosen. She has this burden thrust upon her that she didn't ask for. She was living life as a shallow, popular girl, and now all of a sudden she has to save humanity from evil demons. She's almost certainly destined to die young.

SPEAKER_00 40:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:56

So it makes sense that in the story of someone trying to balance feeling like they have to be alone with finding connection with others having stories about sex, makes sense. I think they do a better job with the side characters than with Buffy, interestingly. I think the Willow Terra story, even though I don't think we actually ever see them have sex, we do see them do a couple of spells where it's heavily implied that we see them kiss. But there is like the rose petal spell, and we'll have to do another episode just on them. We're like, it actually shows their sexuality, not just in really interesting creative ways, but revolutionary ways at the time. It was the first female, female on-screen kiss on network television was from this show.

SPEAKER_02 41:42

It's even unusual that slayers have friends and have family. Usually they go it alone. So for her to have any level of connection is highly unusual and really difficult for her to manage. And at this point, she's finally become a little more inward and is a little depressed, and she doesn't know what to do with those feelings, and she puts them into a sexual place because she doesn't have any kind of outlet whatsoever besides fighting. So fighting literally becomes what sexually interests her as well. I do love the idea of doing a Willow Terra, Willow Kennedy episode. Even though I hate Kennedy with a passion.

unknown 42:25

But it's okay.

SPEAKER_02 42:26

Thanks so much for listening to Faking It. This episode's research and context was done by me, Ariel.

SPEAKER_03 42:32

You could find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or anywhere you get your podcasts. New episodes drop every other hump day, Wednesday.

SPEAKER_02 42:38

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SPEAKER_03 42:48

So we have from The Nixter One. Thank you for this lovely discussion. I learned so much, and now I'll watch the intimate scenes and heated rivalry with a newfound sense of wonder and respect. Thank you, Nixter. Thanks, Nixter. Tell one friend who loves spicy movie secrets about us. Find us on social media at faking it the pod. Want to get involved?

SPEAKER_02 43:13

Head to patreon.com slash faking it the pod. For just one dollar, you can request scenes for us to break down. For$10, you get bonus content and never before seen footage. And for$5, you get a shout-out like these listeners. Thank you, Lee and Kiki Brown.

SPEAKER_03 43:28

This episode was produced by Ariel Lee Cohen. Social media and branding by Morgan Smith. Our theme song is Faking It by Mike Getz. Credits for the film or show we reacted to are in the episode caption. Stay real, fakers.