No Lube, No Warning | Spilling the Beans on the Intimacy of “Brokeback Mountain”

This episode is sponsored by: taking your time.

Ariel and Morgan are diving into Brokeback Mountain: the film that changed queer representation forever… and also left us with a lot of questions about how these scenes actually function. 

From the infamous first tent scene to the long-awaited reunion, we’re breaking down what’s working, what’s not, and why these moments feel so tense without ever fully landing.

They get into it all:

• The reality of prep, lubrication, and pacing (and what’s missing here) 
• How tension overtakes intimacy and why that leaves the scenes feeling incomplete 
• The difference between awkwardness that serves the story vs. awkwardness that comes from unclear choreography
• How the intimacy goes from zero to 100… and tends to stay there forever

Plus: beans, spit logistics, near broken noses, and a very real conversation about how these scenes would be approached differently today with an intimacy coordinator.

We also zoom out to talk about the film’s massive cultural impact, the historical context it exists in, and why representation matters, even when the intimacy itself  needs room for growth.

Justice for lube. That’s all we’re saying.

Want to watch along? Our reaction covers the Tent scene: 00:27:30, the Rasslin' scene: 00:32:51, and the Reunion scene: 01:03:07. We cut around the clips, so it won’t sync perfectly, but you’ll absolutely get the point. 

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CREDITS — BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN

Director: Ang Lee
Writers: Larry McMurtry; Diana Ossana
Source Material: Based on the short story by Annie Proulx
Producers: Diana Ossana; James Schamus
Actors (featured in discussed scenes): Heath Ledger; Jake Gyllenhaal; Michelle Williams; Randy Quaid
© 2005 Focus Features / River Road Entertainment / Good Machine. All rights reserved.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Jack has been eating nothing but beans. Oh my god, you're right.

SPEAKER_03 0:06

You did say that. Oh boy. I included that for a reason. Hi, I'm Arielle Lee Cohen. Hi, I'm Morgan Smith. And we are the hosts of Faking It with Arielle and Morgan.

SPEAKER_02 0:20

We're two intimacy coordinators here to talk about the spicy scenes you see in film and TV.

SPEAKER_03 0:25

I'm coming off of just so many overnights. So I'm Delulu today. Yes. Woo.

SPEAKER_02 0:35

Do you watch the Traitors? I know. I know. I need to do it. Tell me about the Traders. What's happening? Who's betraying who? I was gonna say who's trading who.

SPEAKER_03 0:46

Everyone is betraying everyone. No, so much betrayed. Such betray. Wow. Very betrayed. Major betray. New season is out. I didn't work on it or anything.

SPEAKER_02 1:01

I just am super excited about it. Well, I don't know if you noticed my hair's really pretty today because I had my hair makeup trial for my wedding yesterday. Yes, very exciting. I don't know if we've mentioned this on the podcast before. I'm getting married in May. There's just so many little decisions that we have to make right now. So my brain is kind of fried because I'm doing that on top of working and living my life. And it's hard to do all of that in such a small amount of time. I've dated people outside of the industry and inside the industry before. It has its plus and minuses. For us, it's great. I love that there's someone else who understands the crazy schedule that this business has. I did intimacy coordinate a short that she directed on. That was really fun because we got to work together and I gotta actually see her do her thing because she's seen me act. Right. She never seen me intimacy coordinate, but like I can't really like see her write.

SPEAKER_03 2:03

You're saying you don't just like stare at her while she's writing.

SPEAKER_02 2:06

Just like I do, but for different reasons.

SPEAKER_03 2:08

I'm just like, you're so pretty.

SPEAKER_02 2:11

Um I think me being an intimacy coordinator has made her think differently about how she writes sex scenes. And she's like, the amount that's written for a sex scene really depends on how integral it is to the story. Some of them are really written out, and some of them it's just a couple of sentences. And she's like, it's really interesting to me to see how much you end up having to do when there's only like a couple sentences written for a sex scene. And I'm like, Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Or sometimes she's like, sometimes I'll write something, and I don't mean literally they do this. I'm just trying to get a vibe of cross, but then you read it and you're like, are they literally doing this though?

SPEAKER_03 2:48

Dear writers, please keep this in mind. When you just write and then they have sex, so much work needs to come out of that. There are so many ways that people can have sex that we want to know what you want. Tell us. See you.

SPEAKER_02 3:05

Gay love.

SPEAKER_03 3:06

Gay love, yay.

SPEAKER_02 3:08

Today we are covering Baroque's Back Mountain. Yay!

SPEAKER_03 3:14

Yay! I love it. I've never seen it, but it's fine. You've never seen it? I've never seen it. Whoa! Whoa! I know. I keep sneaking it on you. I keep being like, yeah, you can take the research for that one for sure.

SPEAKER_02 3:30

Wow. This is gonna be really interesting. Oh boy. Broke Back Mountain is a powerful story about two men in love that leaves a complicated legacy. We're gonna get into that. There's so many different contexts that we can get into, both in terms of the time period depicted in the film, the time period this film was released, and how we look back on this film. This was released in 2005. It is a Western epic drama directed by Aang Lee, written by Larry McMurdy, and Diana Osana, starring Jake Gyllenhaal as Jack Twist, and Heath Ledger as Ennis Del Mar, and Michelle Williams as Alma. It's adapted from the 1997 short story by Annie Prue, which was based on her real-life brother's romance with a fellow soldier at a U.S. Army base in Germany in the early 1960s. This movie took six years to make. Angley decided to make it. He found his Ennis and Heath Ledger, who was inspired by his uncle, who was a real gay rancher back in Australia. Dylan Hall loved the script and immediately signed on. He had always wanted to work with Lee and he was also friends with Heath and wanted to work with him. What Angley thought would be a small arthouse film ended up grossing over$178 million worldwide against a$14 million budget. It is the first gay romance film to become mainstream.

SPEAKER_03 4:54

You think it's an art house film, it ends up grossing over$178 million. The gays pay money for your films when you make gay films.

SPEAKER_02 5:04

So maybe consider that. Just so you know, this film in general spans across 20 years. Okay. We're gonna start in 1963 in Wyoming. Farm hands Ennis Del Mar and Jack Twist end up working together, taking sheep through grazing pastures on Brokeback Mountain for the summer. They're completely isolated. After complaining about eating nothing but beans all week, Ennis orders soup, which he hates, but he does it for Jack. On his way back, a bear spooks his horse and it runs off, scattering their provisions in the forest. When he finally returns to the camp that evening, he needs a drink. So they get drunk. Too drunk to ride back to his tent by the sheep. Ennis tries to sleep by the fire. In the middle of the night, Jack wakes up to the sounds of Ennis shivering and commands him to get into the tent. And for those of you at home, we're gonna be starting at 2730.

SPEAKER_03 6:05

So they're sleeping side by side. So Jack is pulling Ennis' arm over his waist in their snoogling. Doing a little snooze. Oh, and he wakes up. He's really upset. Oops. Keith Ledger tries to like escape. Jake Gyllenhaal like pulls him back. Jake Dylan Hall's taking off his jacket. They were putting their hands on shoulders, hands on neck, hands on head. Jake is pulling him closer. Ennis is sort of pushing away. Jake Gyllenhaal's taking his pants off. Ennis is pulling his pants down, and they are about to have penetrative sex from behind. Okay. Uh he spits on his hand and inserts himself. Pretty intensive. The motions aren't matching perfectly, but and they are continuing to. We're mostly focused on Jack at the moment. And now we're outside the tent and that's the end.

SPEAKER_02 7:01

Obviously, at the time it was a huge deal to portray same-sex sex on screen. The gay community has had a lot of discourse on how quickly Jack is penetrating. Oh my God. Yeah. No.

SPEAKER_03 7:16

Oh my god. It literally you would not be okay from like one ounce of spit in a hand. He doesn't scream out in pain. I'm shocked, frankly. Especially considering that the likelihood, the story of this, is that that character has never had penetrative anal sex before.

SPEAKER_02 7:34

We don't know Jack's history. It's tricky because these characters don't talk a lot, just period, you know? Very much like the cowboy vibe, stoic. Jack is more of the talker. We get the sense that maybe he has been with another man before, Ennis for sure has not. Either way, it's way too quick.

SPEAKER_03 7:55

Oh, it's so fast. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 7:56

It's so fast. There's no preparation, no warm-up. He just goes straight in, very little lubrication. Also, Jack has been eating nothing but beans. Oh my God, you're right. You did say that. Oh boy. I included that for a reason. We also have to remember that even if Jack has been with another man before, I don't get the sense that he's that experienced just because of how risky it was for him to even approach another man. Ennis for sure is not experienced at all. So it could be that they just genuinely like don't know.

SPEAKER_03 8:38

But Jack doesn't physically tell that story. Totally. Ah, and we're in and we're done. When it should be it would likely be a much bigger reaction. I also think that for someone who has in the story not had penetrative anal sex before, he finds himself inside so fast. Like no difficulty located.

SPEAKER_02 8:59

Okay, but earlier in the film, he does shoot a deer right on target. So maybe that's just his thing. He has good aim instead of aim. Oh my god. I'm kidding. I'm kidding.

SPEAKER_03 9:15

That's a maze.

SPEAKER_02 9:17

Yes. It's all very fast. And this isn't something that happened in the process of adapting it to film. This was also in the short story, which doesn't mean that that means it's correct. It's just both sources had this being probably too fast.

SPEAKER_03 9:34

I've come up with a story to make this story work. You ready?

SPEAKER_02 9:37

Okay, tell me.

SPEAKER_03 9:38

The story is that Ennis has a very small penis. And that's the plot.

SPEAKER_02 9:45

This is a popular theory. Yeah. The problem with that theory is there is a scene where they both jump naked off of a cliff into the water, and we see that Ennis is not small.

SPEAKER_03 9:58

Then my theories are it just doesn't make sense then.

SPEAKER_02 10:02

It just doesn't make any sense and whatever, fine. It's a famous scene, not just because it had full frontal nudity, but paparazzi got it and bleached the photo because it was actually close the set. I know. I know. It was actually Heath Ledger jumping, and then it was a stunt double for Jake Gyllenhaal. So that's why the paparazzi were like Jack Dylan Hall. Jakey Jack Gyllenhaal. We saw it. Okay. So the next day after working, they finally talk about what happened as much as these men can. Ennis says their relationship is a quote, one-shot thing. Jack says, quote, it's nobody's business but ours. And they both say that they're not queer. After supper, Ennis is tending to the fire while Jack is getting ready to sleep in his tent. And we are starting at 32 51.

SPEAKER_03 11:00

So Ennis is building a fire while Jake is maybe getting dressed or undressed in the tent. Hard to tell. Ennis looks longingly into the tent. He stands up, slowly makes his way to the tent where Jack he's shirtless. Okay, we have a slow touch of the arm. Emotional eye contact. Touching of the face, the ear, the neck. Jack brings Ennis in closer, and Ennis sort of almost doesn't kiss, but then they do kiss. Next to no breath in the kiss until a moment in, which is interesting. Their eyes are closed. We're nose to nose. Beautiful firelight in the background. And then Ennis lies on Jack's shirtless chest. They're kind of holding each other in a really weird way, honestly. Um Jack is above. Ennis is sort of like T-Rexing his arms. More kissing. Oh. And then and then they have a shirtless whipping shirt fight outside, and they and then they wrestle.

unknown 12:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 12:09

And Randy Quaid is watching.

SPEAKER_02 12:16

I didn't want to spoil it by saying I was gonna go into the deck seat where Randy Quaid sees them.

SPEAKER_03 12:21

We love a little Randy in the morning.

SPEAKER_02 12:24

Well, they don't. Randy's their boss, and he's none too happy.

SPEAKER_03 12:28

The intensity of the emotion is there. They're making eye contact. The breath is really stilted. They are learning how to be close to one another, and that seems very clear. However, the physicality of Jack holding Ennis to his chest is really bizarre way to hold him. His hand like cupped around the top of his head with his biceps like tense as anything. And then Heath Ledger is like T-Rexing his hand and like not knowing where to hold or what to do. In certain ways, I understand where we're going with this because they genuinely don't know how to be with one another, but more I want you, I need you closer, come to me instead of I'm almost putting you in a headlock and holding you there in the sleeper position.

SPEAKER_02 13:21

I enjoy this scene because, first of all, it's the first time they kiss.

SPEAKER_03 13:25

The kiss was cute.

SPEAKER_02 13:26

The kiss was cute. The kiss is cute. I love that we finally get a tender moment between the two of them. It's the only one we get. I also love how much they take their time with it because you can tell that these are two people who have been so closed off for so long. If you think of this time period, because there's so much policing of masculinity and so much fear of being thought of as gay. So having tender physical contact with another guy is so foreign and also terrifying. I agree that some of it is awkward. Some of it could be attributed to that, and some of it they could have finagled more so we had a little bit more sweetness.

SPEAKER_03 14:08

I want to clarify that I'm not necessarily saying I need more tenderness. I'm saying the specific locations they chose to touch are odd to me. An aggressive hold is fine. It's because the placement is like over the top of the head. The hand doesn't know where it wants to go. It feels really awkward and not in a story way, in like in the actors didn't know where to put their hands kind of way. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:39

I feel that. Final scene. Four years later, Ennis is married and has two kids. Out of the blue, he gets a postcard from Jack saying he's going to be in town from Texas and wants to see him. In a clean, pressed shirt, Ennis waits for Jack's arrival, drinking beers to soothe his nerves. We will see Michelle Williams as Alma, his wife, and Hannah Stewart as his daughter, Alma Jr., age three. Beautiful. That's the character's name is Alma Jr., age three.

SPEAKER_03 15:08

Yeah, that's her character name. Hi, I'm Alma Jr., age three.

SPEAKER_02 15:12

Well, because it takes place over 20 years, so we see Alma Jr. at like three different ages.

SPEAKER_03 15:18

I love the age three family.

SPEAKER_02 15:21

They're solid. And then for those following along, we are going to be at 103.07.

SPEAKER_03 15:28

It's age three.

SPEAKER_02 15:31

Also, I'd like to note there's like six beer bottles around him.

SPEAKER_03 15:35

So we see Ennis drinking some beers, looking out the window and almost crying because he sees Jack out there. Alma is clearing the table. Ennis is smiling and looking down at him, and they are he's running down the stairs. And they connect in a big, big hug with beautiful music. Oh, but then he pushes him to the back against the wall and they kiss very intensely. There is the grip of the fingertips I wanted! There it is! Alma's looking out the window and sees them kissing. She's looking a little stunned. She closes the door and walks away. She's such a good actress, huh? Alright, and back to them. Jack was gripping Ennis's shirt with both hands. And they're just trying to pull each other closer and pushing hands away, but then bringing each other closer again. And then he moves his head away. Now Ennis is walking. This was better. I thought the grip was good. I think they spent a little too long holding faces. I think there could have been more interesting journeys of the hand. They really focused on just hands on face, hands on face, and the bodies themselves kind of triangled slightly. They weren't actually like touching pelvises like you might imagine that people in this situation might.

SPEAKER_02 16:59

I watched this movie when it came out in theaters, and I remember seeing this scene and being like, is that how men kiss? It seems so intense. I found this in my research. Apparently, Heath Ledger almost broke Jack Dylan Hall's nose or Jake Dylan Hall's nose. Because of Jack Dylan Hall, maybe Jack Dylan Hall. He almost broke his nose because the kissing is really intense and kind of violent.

SPEAKER_03 17:26

And while parts of it really do read on camera, there is no dynamic shift. It is that intense the whole time. You might think that it'd start off like kablam, we're together, and then maybe they relax and release into each other, and there is maybe a slight softening. We don't need it to be soft and tender. We just need it to relax slightly so that they can explore the emotional impact of it more so than oh my god, I miss you, I miss you, I missed you, I missed you, I missed you, missed you, I missed you, missed you, oh my god, I missed you. It's like you're okay, you're you're there. Like you can connect now. You're hidden theoretically.

SPEAKER_02 18:09

There's room for them to have awkward interactions, for it to be a little too aggressive, to be like out of sync because they haven't seen each other for four years, but I would have liked to have seen them get back into their rhythm. I like the moments that they're like nose to nose. There's some physical history that I'm kind of missing. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 18:26

Yeah, I know what you mean. And I also think there was one moment that's really interesting. We have this nose-to-nose, forehead-to-forehead moment. And then Ennis half looks away, comes back like he's being pulled, and then lit like physically turns his head away and walks. And it's really interesting to look at. Like he is forcing himself to leave the situation, but it's not as smooth, I think, as he wanted it to be. Like it's a little, I don't know what to do with my head, and then he leaves. Yeah. But I know what he was going for, and I see the journey, and I agree with that decision, but I think it wasn't done perfectly.

SPEAKER_02 19:06

Yeah, I feel you. I love seeing him feel torn. This is the project that Heath Ledger and Michelle Williams met on and started dating. Michelle Williams's character is the wife that sees them kiss. And so to help her prepare and get into that place, she had Jake and Heath kiss a bunch in front of her so she could like feel it. I'm assuming that they were fine with it because the two of them were friends and she was dating. When they did the actual first sex scene, Aang Lee, according to Heath Ledger, is the type of director who does a lot of work with the actors in prep. Like he gave them all these books to read about gay cowboys and they did all this research, and Jake Gyllenhull went to cowboy camp and they had a lot of conversations about the characters. And then on set, he barely spoke to them and just gave them technical notes. And he says he wanted them to be able to be spontaneous. And that includes the intimacy scenes. Apparently, the first simulated sex scene between the two of them took 13 takes before they got one that Aangley liked. Did they feel too awkward? Was it that it wasn't telling the story he wanted to tell? Was it hard to figure out the blocking because they were inside a tent?

SPEAKER_03 20:17

I think it was Julia Roberts said in an interview once. If by take four you're still not getting from me what you want, then we need to stop shooting and have a conversation because I'm not understanding what it is that you need from me. When you're doing 13 takes of a simulated sex scene, that's really difficult physically. It's like doing push-ups. It's also like mentally difficult. The actors seem a little bit like they don't know what to do.

SPEAKER_02 20:48

It's interesting watching this now because when I first saw this in theaters, I was straight. And I was pretty young, not in a place yet where I had like seen other people being romantic. I just wasn't like that experienced in general. But now having watched this, my personal life, I'm out, I've been intimacy coordinating for a while. I see all the places where an intimacy coordinator could have been helpful so that they could have told the story better. Not only the authenticity of, hey, you're gonna need more lubricant. Physically, he's probably not going to be able to get his penis in him right off the bat, and he's not gonna be able to start thrusting right away. Or at least he shouldn't.

SPEAKER_03 21:29

Like There wasn't even a moment of Ennis penetrating Jack and then being there for a second and understanding the intensity of the moment, the repercussions of the moment, the physicality of feeling blood rushing to extremities and being inside of other extremities. There's a lot to contend with in that moment. And it's like he pushed in and then he pushed out and he pushed back in again. And it's not the journey that I would expect for them.

SPEAKER_02 22:00

Especially for a film that really takes its time and is so subtle and so much is unspoken because of the world that we're in. I think that could have applied to the intimate scenes as well. Obviously, overall the story was told pretty effectively. But within the intimate scenes, I think it there was room for growth. Spice scale?

SPEAKER_03 22:24

I would love to. Well, yes. I don't know. That came from like deep inside my body. I don't know where that is. That comes from not sleeping for multiple nights in a row.

SPEAKER_02 22:36

I love it.

SPEAKER_03 22:36

Oh boy. Welcome to the Spice Scale, our not-so-scientific way of rating intimacy scenes based on consent and power dynamics, technical crafted coordination excellence, and heat factor. Each category gets a score from one to five, with five being the highest. Then we add it all up to give the scene a final letter grade. So we start with consent and power dynamics, how the scene depicts consent and power in the story and if known behind the scenes. My assumption is that in 2005, the story that they're telling is that Ennis is the one in control because he's the one who tops. In that first scene, Jack is really initiating almost all of it. Ennis walks into the tent, maybe, but the rest of it, he's kind of like pushing, pushing, pushing Jack away. And Jack eventually physically persuades him to actually participate in the sexual action. In the second scene, Jack is still sort of the initiator of the kiss moment. Ennis lies on Jack's chest while Jack holds him. It seems to control more of the power in the situation. And the last scene, I'd say they're in pretty equal footing. Like the when they're hiding and they're that's why they're both having face in hand at the same time.

SPEAKER_02 23:49

Jack is definitely more of the initiator. And the last scene, I would say Ennis is more of the initiator.

SPEAKER_03 23:55

Oh, interesting. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 23:56

Because it's he pulls him in to do the kiss and hides him. And it stands out because of that, because Jack was initiating more when we saw them on Brokeback, but now we're getting to see more of Ennis putting himself out there a little.

SPEAKER_03 24:11

All the scenes seem consensual, but that first scene initially does not. Ennis is really pushing him away. For the first half of the scene, he's like, What are you doing? And like Jack takes that to mean he should undo his pants. If I were to see just that portion of the scene up to the point where Jack takes his pants and unbuckles them, I'd be like, We're about to enter into non-consensual territory here.

SPEAKER_00 24:35

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 24:36

Because you can push someone someone away, but still want them. You just need that journey to be clear.

SPEAKER_02 24:43

Everything in this scene is pretty close to was written in the short story, except in the short story, Ennis doesn't pull away. So Jack does put his hand. It's actually on his erection where he puts his hand, not his waist. And then Ennis, like basically immediately gets up and gets ready to have sex with him. So there isn't a push away. I don't know what was behind that choice. I couldn't find that out in the film. Um, but I feel you. I was watching it this time. I was like, oh, this feels non-consensual. Jack is pulling him in. I don't know how he can tell that Ennis is still into this because that felt like a pretty clear no to me. But then after that, Ennis seems to want to participate. So then it's fine. But yeah, that moment was confusing to me too.

SPEAKER_03 25:28

I kind of want to give consent and power dynamics like a two. I think it was kind of all over the place, to be honest, when I'm thinking back at the three moments, I'm never a hundred percent sure who's really in power. And from what you're telling me contextually from the film, it seems like I did not get it from just these scenes a hundred percent. Also, consent-wise, the um short story, if it was like he was definitely into it, that is not what is being communicated on here. And maybe they did decide to go in a different direction. It's just really murky. I never know where the characters are at with this. I don't know really how much of you is consenting, how much of you is like really wanting this versus maybe just wanting someone. So I'd be willing to bump it to a three because of the complexity involved.

SPEAKER_02 26:23

A three totally makes sense. It's hard with this movie to differentiate like what's a function of the characters and what's a function of this being a film that was made by mostly straight people.

SPEAKER_03 26:37

That's what it feels like though. It feels like a film made by straight people. Like I that's the vibe I keep getting. Yeah. And I think that's what I'm getting stuck on. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:47

Technical craft, coordination, excellence, the staging, film coverage, modesty, protection, choreography, and overall execution of the scene.

SPEAKER_03 26:55

I think it's bad. I think it's really it's not good. There's very few moments that are believable and tell the story they're trying to tell. I'd give it a two because there are moments of cohesiveness in the choreography and staging. Yeah. But there are mere moments.

SPEAKER_02 27:16

When I found out that Heath Ledger almost broke Jack's or Jake's nose, I'm like Jack Jake. Jack Jake. Doesn't that tell you so much? I don't want to make this. Well, the actors were bad. I think they, based on what I was reading about them, they seemed genuinely open to trying to make the intimacy as authentic as possible. I didn't get the sense that these were two straight guys who were dreading the intimate scenes or felt negatively about it. I do think it may have been uncomfortable for them for a lot of different reasons. The pressure of trying to be a leading man and knowing the stakes of this, never having done a same-sex scene before or kissed before, having to do that for the first time in a movie with a huge director. That's a lot of pressure and really wanting to do the story justice. It felt like they were just throwing themselves at each other. Literally. Literally throwing themselves at each other. And I'm like, I think there's a way. If we want them to be having more rough, athletic, masculine macho sex that these cowboys would have had, okay, fine. But I think there are different shades of that that we can be getting.

SPEAKER_03 28:35

I understand they're cowboys and that they need to maintain these personas. There were no moments of soft connection that could anchor them or ground them a little bit in their characters. The actors did a great job. The actors acting is good. I think it was just how everything collaborated and came together just kind of fell flat ultimately.

SPEAKER_02 28:58

Right. In these specific scenes.

SPEAKER_03 29:00

In these specific scenes, because again, I have not seen the rest of the movie.

SPEAKER_02 29:04

I haven't seen it. And it's like the direction in the rest of the movie is great. I was crying my face off multiple times throughout this film. But yeah, intimacy, uh there's there was room for growth.

SPEAKER_03 29:16

There was room for growth on Broke Back Mountain. Which brings uh, I mean, so we're going with two, two. Then go into heat factor, the level of erotic charge or sexual tension in the scene. The intention is for these scenes to be highly erotically charged with high levels of sexual tension. Tragically, like it's these are not successfully erotically charged scenes. Like we do this, and then we do this, and then it is a step-by-step. We do it, we do it, we do, and then we're done.

SPEAKER_02 29:47

Oh my god, I think I know how to sum it up.

SPEAKER_03 29:50

Do it.

SPEAKER_02 29:51

These scenes have too much tension and not enough sexuality.

SPEAKER_03 29:57

That's a beautiful way to describe it. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 30:00

Because they are so tense in all of these scenes, even the more tender ones. There's still so much tension in them. And I can understand that maybe the first time that they're together in the beginning, but I think even there there's an argument for them sinking into it, for lack of a better phrase, and sort of surrendering a bit. I think it would tell the story better. I think having all that tension is part of what kept things so aggressive and kind of one note with a lot of these scenes. Two. Two.

SPEAKER_03 30:36

Two. That leaves us with an F. Woo!

SPEAKER_01 30:46

Whoops.

SPEAKER_02 30:48

I knew that we were probably gonna end up with a lower score for the interview.

SPEAKER_01 30:53

I didn't think we were gonna end up with an F.

SPEAKER_02 30:54

I didn't think we were gonna end up with an F, truthfully. I knew it wasn't gonna be an A. And I looked up some little factoids. A week into the start of the film shoot, two crew members came out inspired by the story they were helping to tell. So historical context for when the film takes place, when it starts in 1963. We don't have any gay mechas like LA, New York, or San Francisco. That's not really a thing yet. Homosexuality was still considered a mental illness. Sodomy was considered a quote, crime against nature. Same-sex wasn't actively legal in Wyoming where the bulk of the film takes place until 1977. It was still a misdemeanor in Texas, where Jack lives, until 1983. For them, there wasn't even a word for it. In the movie, they do say the word queer, but the idea it's like we don't see anybody on film or TV. It's only talked about in either a clinical or a dangerous context. And I think the isolation is part of what they get into with these characters. What's interesting is there's so much going on around the time of this movie. There are so many things that feel incredibly progressive and embracing of queer folks. And then there are other things happening at the same time that are really pushing back on that. So that's sort of the world that this film is getting released into, which is fascinating.

SPEAKER_03 32:15

We may have given this production an F as far as intimacy scenes, but that is not to take away from the cultural impact, the visibility of gay characters and simulated gay sex scenes. It's tremendous, truly, and very important both for queer people, but also for straight people to see and know that people exist. Even cowboys exist in this sphere. It's like rivalry. People in sports exist in this sphere. The timing of this has not gone unnoticed. I just wish the scenes were better.

SPEAKER_02 32:53

I know. I feel you. I think if this film was released today, it would look very different. I think the intimate scenes would look very different, especially now that we're post-heated rivalry.

SPEAKER_00 33:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:06

There have been a lot of portrayals of gay sex in mainstream media that have suffered from a lot of the same problems that this scene does, where there is very quick penetration without much preparation or lubrication. It was so funny. I went on a Reddit thread, um, gay guys reacting to a broke back, and so many of them were like, Jack has been eating nothing but beans.

SPEAKER_00 33:32

I know, I know, I know.

SPEAKER_03 33:35

Literally, this would look so different in the reality of the situation. Like, there'd be a lot more noise happening.

SPEAKER_02 33:43

Yes. Jack is not gonna go douche before having sex. That's not the reality of this character. Of course, of course. Okay, let's actually talk about this. If we were to intimacy coordinate these scenes today, let's start with the first simulated sex scene. And they do their first take, and their first take is what we have of this movie. And the director's like, what do you think? Should we make any changes?

SPEAKER_03 34:07

I'd be like, no, it's perfect. No change of I think the beans would have to enter into the conversation truthfully. This brings about an interesting conversation, actually. And we talk a lot about authenticity. Sometimes the authenticity of the moment can take too much time for film and can take away from the vibe and mood of the film. He, like you said, is not going to douche before this scene begins that's not in his character to do, nor was it a thing at the time.

SPEAKER_02 34:36

It's more commonplace very recently.

SPEAKER_03 34:40

I don't know the history of douching tragically.

SPEAKER_02 34:43

I just had a conversation about this. That's the only reason I know.

SPEAKER_03 34:47

Well, if I were to intimacy coordinate the scene, I would do research on the history of douching. Let's start there. The authenticity of this moment is that there would be time to loosen up Jack. There would be stretching, and there would be more lubricant of some kind, whether there is more spit or they grab something. I don't know what they have available to them because I haven't seen the rest of the scene. But this scene then would be longer significantly. In certain ways, it might take away from the tension of the scene. So trying to find that perfect through line, giving them more specific beats to hit and telling them to let the moment breathe, let it take its time to get there. And then taking those moments of authenticity and shortening them. Maybe there's one stretch moment with his fingers up at the rectum. Maybe it is some kind of oral stimulation moment or something along with fingers, or we would need to discuss it in detail and come up with solutions with production, but finding that line of the timing of it and the pacing of it would help a lot.

SPEAKER_02 35:56

I think there needed to be a lot more spit and not just once.

SPEAKER_03 36:02

What are they cooking the beans in? Do they have oil? Maybe they can use an oil color. Bean juice. Very hygienic.

SPEAKER_02 36:11

Oh no, not bean juice. Spit is fine. We're in the moment and spontaneous. It was probably a lot more spit.

SPEAKER_03 36:21

A lot more spit, man. Or even just use some of the pre-cum liquid. Like, anyway, use some of that.

SPEAKER_02 36:26

But also, like you'd need a lubricate again. I totally buy that Ennis would go straight to penetration as if he were with a woman. And I think he would knock on the door and realize the door's not opening, and we have to figure out how to open the door.

SPEAKER_00 36:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 36:43

Yes. All of it seems painful emotionally and physically. And I'm like, we're telling the story of two incredibly lonely people who are finally finding connection. I want to see that on their faces. I want to see that relaxation, that relief, that excitement.

SPEAKER_03 37:01

That's what it is. The relief. There is no moment of relief here. And that's what would ground the scene the most. Pleasure, yes, we love pleasure. People showcase pleasure expression-wise differently, and that's okay. It's more like there needs to be a moment of thank God. Like I'm here. I needed this so badly. Whether that comes post-orgasm or upon initial penetration or upon that first kiss, I'm in. Whether it's a breath or anything. Yeah. And I think that's what the biggest thing that's missing. I think a lot of the story could be forgiven if we even had that.

SPEAKER_02 37:44

And I think that's what helps the third scene.

SPEAKER_03 37:50

That's why it works better than the other ones. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:53

It works so much better.

SPEAKER_03 37:55

Thanks so much for listening to Faking It. This episode's research and context was done by Morgan.

SPEAKER_02 38:00

You can find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or anywhere you get your podcasts. New episodes drop every other hump day, Wednesday.

SPEAKER_03 38:08

If this was good for you, the best way to support our show is to follow the podcast and leave a quick rating or review. It takes less than 30 seconds and it really helps us. And one such example is from Rad Funny Stuff. It's titled Really Funny. It says, I don't know a lot about intimacy coordinating, but this was pretty funny and informative. I clicked that follow button just about when the horse story came up.

SPEAKER_02 38:37

To clarify, because we were talking about broke back, that was the horror story where my first intimacy coordinator job was a man penetrating a horse from behind. Yes. Not the gay cowboy sex story.

SPEAKER_03 38:49

Also, to clarify further, we're saying horse story, not horse story. Yes. Horse.

SPEAKER_02 38:57

Oh my god. Funny. Yes. They must know funny. They must know funny stuff.

unknown 39:03

And it's a rat.

SPEAKER_02 39:04

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SPEAKER_03 39:14

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SPEAKER_02 39:30

This episode was produced by Ariel Lee Cohen, social media and branding by Morgan Smith. Our theme song is Faking It by Mike Getz. Credits for the film or show we reacted to are in the episode caption. Stay real, fakers.

SPEAKER_01 39:44

Woo!

SPEAKER_02 39:46

Woo!