Obsession (2025): The Horror of Non-Consent | Intimacy & Stunt Coordinator Jen Albert

Intimacy coordinators Ariel and Morgan are joined by Obsession's own intimacy and stunt coordinator Jen Albert to break down the 2025 horror film's most disturbing intimacy, violence, and non-consent scenes.

Together, they explore how Obsession evolved from script to screen, where the line between stunt coordination and intimacy coordination begins and ends, and why one of the film's most unsettling moments is terrifying without relying on gore.

In this episode:

•  Why the infamous bedroom scene is so disturbing 
•  How intimacy coordination differs from stunt coordination 
•  The theatrical cut vs. the streaming cut 
•  Behind-the-scenes stories from filming Obsession
•  Bloody dolls, Sugar glass, and Foam Bricks
•  How actor collaboration and rehearsal shaped the final scenes 

When horror and intimacy collide

Plus, Jen shares what changed from the original script, how the cast approached portraying non-consent, and what really went into filming the movie's iconic brick scene.

Scenes discussed:
Obsession (2025), approximately 44:46–45:32 and 1:36:56–1:37:24.

Subscribe for behind-the-scenes breakdowns of film and television's most iconic intimacy scenes.

Credits

Obsession (2025) | Written & Directed by Curry Barker | Starring Inde Navarrette, Michael Johnston, Megan Best | Intimacy Coordinated and Stunt Coordinated by Jen Albert

Hashtags

#Obsession #HorrorMovies #IntimacyCoordinator #StuntCoordinator #FilmPodcast

Transcript

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Morgan (00:00)
Hey, fakers, this is the last episode of season one of Faking It. Thank you so much for listening. We are going to take a quick summer break, but don't worry. We are not going to leave you hanging. We're going to do reruns of some older episodes for you, so you will still have Faking It in your feed.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (00:13)
Mm-hmm.

Morgan (00:18)
be back in September with fresh faking it episodes for you.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (00:23)
We're so excited. Stay real fakers, I guess.

Morgan (00:25)
Great. Great.

Jen (00:30)
it's crazy that I'm involved in a project that has blown up like this. I think this is a once in a lifetime thing.

the fact that I and speaking about stunt, like that I'm involved with a scene that is now known as iconic. the scene at the end, the head smashy that it will go down in the whatever the annals as one of the most graphic, you know, but that I got to be a part of keeping them safe

Ariel Leigh Cohen (00:55)
Hi, I'm Ariel Leigh Cohen. And we are the hosts of Faking It with Ariel and Morgan.

Morgan (00:57)
Hey, I'm Morgan Smith.

We're

two intimacy coordinators here to talk about the spicy scenes you see in film and TV.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (01:08)
And today, once again, we are three intimacy coordinators because we have the incredible Jen Albert on as our guest today. Yay!

Albert is a Los Angeles-based SAGAFTRA certified intimacy coordinator and award-winning fight choreographer whose work has appeared in film, television, over 100 vertical dramas, and on stages from LA to Chicago. An educator with over 20 years of experience, she is currently the resident intimacy director and stage combat instructor at Art of Acting, Stellar Adler Studio of Acting, Hollywood, a committed

proponent of inclusive trauma-informed choreography. Jen specializes in thoughtfully executed stories of consent, non-consent, kink, BDSM, woo, and queer stories, woo! With an ethos that encompasses actor agency and advocacy. Thank you so much for being with us today.

Jen (02:00)
Yay, I'm excited to be here.

Morgan (02:02)
We're so excited to have

you. It's We have been wanting to talk to someone who also has a stunts background for a while. And then, this project came up, we were like, this is the perfect opportunity to have Jen on talk about all her expertise.

Jen (02:04)
Yeah.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (02:17)
our audience who did not figure it out yet, or somehow didn't read, Jen Albert was the intimacy coordinator and stunt coordinator for the movie that just came out, Obsession. of all, amazing job. Claps for you. it's so good.

Jen (02:30)
Mm-hmm.

Morgan (02:30)
my god, it was so

good.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (02:33)
the film has become very successful very quickly. it's still very new, but how has this impacted you, your career right now, your mental health? What is this like for you right now?

Morgan (02:36)
Ha ha ha ha.

Jen (02:45)
I mean so far nothing. I mean I mean honestly like I got an agent but I reached out and was like hey I did this thing and they were like ⁓ hey let's talk

Ariel Leigh Cohen (02:47)
Okay, fair. No, that's totally fair. That's the sometimes that's the case. Mm-hmm.

Morgan (02:47)
Ha ha ha ha!

Jen (02:56)
my husband is the one who just every single time we're out, he's like, You know, she worked on obsession, right? I was like, he's just been just like a proponent. Just every single time. I was wearing the t-shirt one day, and this guy, we were just like eating at our normal restaurant, and this guy was like, Is that an obsession t-shirt? And my husband was like, Yes, she worked on the movie. And I was like, my god. I'm like, He's like, hes not gonna tell people

Morgan (03:02)
Yeah.

We love a cheerleader partner.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (03:06)
Yes.

Morgan (03:21)
Yes.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (03:24)
Okay.

Jen (03:24)
And the

whole time I've been like, I'm such a small part of a bigger thing. And my husband's like, honey, small parts are what create movies. You know Yeah, he's like, it couldn't have been done without you. that whole movie is about consent.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (03:26)
Hm.

Morgan (03:33)
Yes.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (03:33)
Yes, I love that. I want that on a t-shirt.

Jen (03:41)
It's on my resume, it's on my IMDb We'll see what happens.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (03:44)
Okay, let's start at the beginning. What brought you to intimacy coordination and stunt coordination?

Jen (03:49)
stunt coordination. I went to college in Columbia College, Chicago, the first thing that I saw on the curriculum was stage combat. And I was like, yes, I'm doing that. and I loved every single second of it. And then I ended up joining a theater company called Babes with Blades, which was an all female, stage combat theater company.

Morgan (04:07)
Hot.

Jen (04:11)
and just kept honing my craft. And people started to get to know me Jen the chick who fights. as a stunt coordinator, fight choreographer, there was always projects that came up where I'd be doing the fight choreography, but then they'd say, Hey Jen, this other scene. we're not really sure what to do. Can you help?

Because he kind of pushes her into a wall and then he kind of kisses her and then he And naturally I'd say, yes, Of course I'm gonna help with the best of my ability. And you ask the questions, Are you okay with this? Are you okay with And that's sort of how that became a thing.

thing, but it wasn't until much later, after moving to LA, where I was still getting asked to do fights, that intimacy coordination became a thing. And I was like, wow, I've sort of been doing that. And like maybe most people, I fell in love with it and was like, this is I love this.

Taking ⁓ all the courses in coordination really changed how I do stage combat, how I approach that, because now I come from a trauma-informed but also teach. and a lot of times stunt coordinators kind of just manhandle, and I say man handle, I've I've woman handled people here, you know, move over here, you know, can you can you do this?

Morgan (05:20)
Yes.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (05:20)
I don't know. ⁓

Jen (05:27)
and it sort of taught me consent. checking in on boundaries. Hey, does this work for you? can you turn your hips this way? So it taught me to be a little bit more articulate and ask for consent and check in with students and make sure that they're comfortable doing an action. I teach chokes in my class.

And the first thing I have to say is, hey everyone, I'm about to teach a choke. I'm gonna tell you that we're not gonna touch the neck, but you do not want to participate, you need to sit out, let me know that. and that's something I just didn't know, Because fight is a very masculine thing.

very testosterone driven. It's primal, really. because I couldn't I took stage combat, right? That was the

Morgan (06:07)
Yeah.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (06:07)
I love

that.

Morgan (06:08)
Which is like a dance

Jen (06:10)
dance is almost like a Pollock painting.

very abstract. violence, stage combat, martial arts is concrete. I know where this is I know how to do that. so that it's safe. I understand that.

Morgan (06:24)
I think something that maybe a lot of people, even in the industry, don't really think about when we're doing stunts is we don't really check in and see, hey, are you okay someone pretends to punch you in the face because just like with intimacy, people have their own experiences with some of this.

And it might bring something up. And so having a trauma-informed practice, even for stunts, like totally makes sense.

So for

you, Jen, since you practice both, where do you draw the line between stunts and intimacy? Because I know it can get blurry sometimes.

Jen (06:59)
I get a lot of folks who reach out saying, can you do stunts and intimacy? and my answer is typically no. there's a physical, I don't want to be touched here and there, but to me at the end of the day, it really goes back to a mental health and emotional.

whereas stunts is very much about the physical and athleticism and how are we doing this, and it's very A to B. I will do stuntimacy as I call it, if it's related to BDSM or

Morgan (07:22)
Mm-hmm.

Jen (07:28)
The intimacy has an edge of violence to it, right? Push into the wall, a kiss, or like an obsession, she falls off the bed, have a mat there, I told her how to fall, right? to me, that's a component of the intimacy. when I say absolutely not, no, is when I am doing a scene that is

Morgan (07:32)
Mm.

Jen (07:49)
intimacy on the same day and then they're like, hey, can you please come do this fight? No. No, I can't. I am intimacy coordinator and I have to be present and support my actors who are doing intimacy And that means if I step off and I'm on set and they're having wardrobe issue or they're running lines and something comes up, I need to be present for that. I can't be on set choreographing

a large scale fight. it's just not something I'd like to do unless it's completely on separate days.

Morgan (08:21)
That makes sense.

Jen (08:22)
and then I can focus.

Morgan (08:24)
Right, 'cause they're working very different parts of your brain, it sounds like. So it'd be really hard, even if you didn't have to worry about issues happening while you're rehearsing with actors on set, it sounds like it would be hard for you mentally just to switch back and forth between those different zones.

Jen (08:39)
Mm-hmm. Yeah,

and it's a lot of space for a lot of people. Right. Which to me is really

Morgan (08:42)
Mm-hmm. Yes.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (08:43)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Correct.

Jen (08:47)
the job of being intimacy coordinator is, is holding space, being sort of the the calm in the storm. just can't do that if I'm also like, okay, great, hold on. I gotta go do this. I gotta go do some violence now. I've gotta smash somebody's head into a wall and I've gotta do this thing, and I've gotta and there's guns and

Ariel Leigh Cohen (08:56)
Yeah, yeah.

Morgan (08:57)
Ha ha ha.

Right.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (09:04)
Yeah.

Jen (09:05)
Intimacy coordinates get to have boundaries too.

And my boundary is that no, I will not perform both of these jobs on the same day. And maybe not even on the same

Ariel Leigh Cohen (09:08)
Yeah.

Morgan (09:08)
Yes.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (09:13)
I also just think

also just think we're like actively looking for different things on the monitor.

You know, it's very much the difference between the internal safety versus the external safety elements. And when you are at monitor watching your actors, and it's let's say a domestic violence into an intimacy or maybe seggsual assault, who knows? trying to watch the choreography to make sure the physical storytelling makes sense, but we're also watching the body language to make sure that they're not.

about to have a panic attack. when you're in the stunt brain, you're really looking like did this read correctly? Did they actually hit their shoulder when they fell? And I think it is really hard to compartmentalize that simultaneously.

Jen (10:00)
Mm. Absolutely.

and I I think also my demeanor is a little bit different when I'm working stunts versus when I'm working it's just a different Jen

Ariel Leigh Cohen (10:04)
Mm, sure.

Morgan (10:04)
Hm.

Ha

Ariel Leigh Cohen (10:09)
That's you know what? That's that's such

Morgan (10:10)
ha ha.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (10:11)
a great point that you brought that up I was speaking to a stunt coordinator recently, who was on set with me, and he was saying, boy, like the stunt coordinators come out and everybody decides to tell the most raunchy, intensive, like locker room type stories. But then when the intimacy coordinator is in the room, everyone's like, I will say nothing about anything. What if they what if they look at me?

Jen (10:31)
Yeah. Absolutely.

Agree. Yes. And I think there's an expectation that as the stunt coordinator, you're a badass. You're tough, right? You got you.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (10:37)
Yeah.

Morgan (10:45)
Right.

Jen (10:46)
I will say

Morgan (10:46)
Yeah, how is

it different for you as a woman as a stunt coordinator versus the male stunt coordinators when you walk into a set?

Jen (10:54)
times have changed, I will say, and for the better. in my younger days, there was just a lot of sort of bravado machismo. this generation, Gen Z and the younger generation, they're always like Jen, did I do that right? Jen, can you tell me if that looks good? this is not a hundred percent of the time.

Morgan (10:56)
Mm-hmm.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (11:10)
Yeah, correct.

Jen (11:11)
In the previous days, I was either getting hit on or you know, ⁓ I come from martial arts, I'm a black belt. That is so great. I am so glad that you're a black belt. and that means you understand your body, which is so wonderful. what we're doing here today is safety.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (11:20)
⁓

Morgan (11:29)
Yeah.

Jen (11:30)
Because we're not trying to actually hurt anybody. So let's go ahead and utilize what what you have learned from your martial

Ariel Leigh Cohen (11:33)
my god.

Morgan (11:34)
The voice

Ariel Leigh Cohen (11:37)
What an amazing

Morgan (11:37)
shift.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (11:37)
turnaround, so good!

Morgan (11:38)
I love that voice shift.

Jen (11:40)
I mean it just wants to be Yeah,

So I'm gonna show you how to do this safely. and again, not a hundred percent of the time. I worked with all sorts I've worked with full-on dudes who've been doing fight for years who are like, Yeah, Jen, tell me what you need here. Like, okay, cool.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (11:57)
I do feel like there is a voice modulation thing that happens with intimacy coordinators when we're talking about things. When we're trying to like lay down the law politely, and we're like, that's so great. I'm so happy that you're so comfortable with your body. So the thing is, we're like, it's like, it's like it is your voice, but it's just it's softer, cuter.

Morgan (12:02)
Ha ha ha ha.

Someone on set asked me the other day

if I was a mother because of the way I spoke to an actor, and I was using that kind of voice.

Jen (12:23)
Yes.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (12:24)
the last set I was on, everyone kept calling me mother and mom. They'd be like, they'd be like, thanks mom! Thanks, mom. And I'm like, you're grounded. Get out of my house. Get out of my house.

Morgan (12:28)
Ha ha ha.

Jen (12:31)
Yes.

Morgan (12:32)
Who

Jen (12:34)
Yes. And I have to not take offense because I could be somebody's mother, and I have to just be like.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (12:37)
Mm

Sure.

Morgan (12:41)
sometimes I get self-conscious because I don't want to be giving off the energy of like Amy Pohler and Mean Girls where it's like, I'm not like the other intimacy coordinators, I'm a cool intimacy coordinator.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (12:49)
I'm the cool intimacy coordinator ⁓ That's so real!

Jen (12:51)
Yeah.

No.

I think that's part of what I really love about intimacy coordination is that there's so much nuance to the job.

Morgan (12:59)
There is.

are so many times where people underestimate the value of intimacy coordinating, and I don't think that would be happening in a field dominated by men.

Jen (13:09)
I think there is that, well, women you can just they're maternal. They're the mom. You can just be like, right, we're

The voice change, like we all do that. the other problem is is that people still don't know what an intimacy coordinator does. I think

Ariel Leigh Cohen (13:19)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, that's that's so true.

Morgan (13:24)
Right.

Jen (13:26)
It's just well you're just gonna babysit this kiss. Okay. Maybe, sometimes, worked on so many projects where I am not babysitting a kiss and it's full on simulated seks. It's a thruple. It's you cannot tell me that some person who with a stunt background can go ahead and choreograph a three person

Morgan (13:48)
Yeah.

Jen (13:49)
With the modesty garments Or understand like understand the nuance when an actor just goes

Morgan (13:55)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (13:55)
Mm. my gosh, yes, or or yeah.

Jen (13:58)
You know, 'cause we've all seen that look and it's not like

you can give a self care cue, but i the amount of times an actor uses it is like two percent.

And you can't do that if you're not paying attention, if you're not aware, if you're haven't taken the training to catch those fight, flight, freeze, right.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (14:07)
Mm-hmm.

I had an actress who I would check in with and say, Hey, how you doing? this is more visual, so for our listeners, maybe watch this on the YouTube or something, but I would say, Hey, how are you doing? And she would go

Hey, let's go chat. Like, let's go, let's go see. Because if you just look at that at face value and they're smiling and they go, yeah, if you just hear the yeah and you move on, because you're not looking for the rest of it, then you may just move on and not realize that there is a much bigger problem occurring. It takes two seconds to check in, but we have the training to look at that and know immediately this yes is not a yes. You know?

Morgan (14:33)
Yeah.

Jen (14:33)
Yeah.

This yes is

amount of times I've said to an actor that doesn't sound like a yes.

That doesn't look like a yes. Well, I'm just thinking ⁓ that I don't really want ⁓ you don't really want to. Okay. That's a NO. You know?

Ariel Leigh Cohen (15:12)
So you don't. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

Morgan (15:13)
Great. Yeah. Or even just

saying like, you also don't have to do this. We can do something else. And a lot of times they'll be like, Yeah, actually if we could do something else, that would be great. I'm like, amazing.

Jen (15:21)
Yeah, let's figure out something else.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (15:25)
I think that is as good a transition as any So today we are covering obviously scenes from Obsession, which was released so recently, May 15th of this year. It is now streaming on Prime Video, Apple TV, Google Play, or Fandango, so go watch.

Morgan (15:36)
Mm-hmm.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (15:45)
It was written and directed by Curry Barker.

Actors in this scene are Inde Navarate as Nikki and Michael Johnston as Bear. So, a little bit of context

Morgan (15:56)
After making a wish on a witchy collector's item that his friend Nikki would love him more than anyone in the world.

Bear finds himself trapped in the relationship he wished for with the girl of his dreams. Hints of the Nikki inside keep popping out at inopportune moments, but Bear ignores or placates those moments or claims she is acting crazy. After she emotionally erupts in public, Bear tries to calm her down, which leads to a moment of, let's say, intimacy between them. And for those listening along, the time code we're jumping to is 44:46, and we're gonna go to about 45:32.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (16:33)
I like intimacy and quotes. All

Morgan (16:35)
Ha ha ha.

She's so scary.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (16:42)
She's incredible,

truly.

Mm-hmm.

Morgan (16:48)
Okay, so he's thrusting at like a really consistent and not seksy rhythm.

Jen (16:53)
No,

not seksy at ⁓ and she's just yeah, and then he's like, That's amazing. I mean he's and he's so not paying attention to her, so not about her. what I also appreciate is that she's

Ariel Leigh Cohen (16:54)
Yeah.

Morgan (17:03)
Yes.

Jen (17:07)
fully clothed, right? She's got a top on and we see his glutes. which I think just adds to

Morgan (17:08)
Mmm.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (17:08)
Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Jen (17:16)
the horror of what's happening to her. I'm not always an advocate for nudity, but in this case I'm like, yeah, no, I think it really helped that scene. You know, I think if it was like a blanket around them, 'cause there was talk about that and Michael was totally fine. He was like, Yeah, glutes are

Ariel Leigh Cohen (17:17)
Yeah.

Morgan (17:18)
Yes.

Jen (17:33)
It just makes so much sense for that.

Morgan (17:35)
And it's such a good encapsulation of what the whole movie is about

whenever you have this type of scenario, whether it's a wish or a spell or a potion or something that forces someone else to love you, you're kind of saying, just want them to love me no matter I don't care if they're consenting to it. I don't care if they're fully active in their love for me. I don't care if they're fully engaged with it. I just want them to be fully in love with

Jen (17:56)
No, that's funny I think

Morgan (18:03)
me. And it's all about him.

Jen (18:03)
Yeah. Yeah. It's it's so all about him. is so great is that they the scene in the restaurant where clearly something's going on with her. There's she's there's that in mental illness, whatever we're gonna call it, she's obviously lying to him, and then we go to this scene.

Morgan (18:09)
Yeah

Yeah.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (18:27)
Mm-hmm.

Jen (18:28)
You

know, and again, like the original, they're like having a full make out session into this. it's just this complete disregard for her and it doesn't matter, whatever. That was in the restaurant, it's fine. Here's what's important right now.

Morgan (18:31)
Mmm.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (18:40)
there's also the choreography of it. I mean, I don't know how involved in the choreography you were or not, but like her arm is like dead on his back. Her legs are like down, they are not straddling or up and around him. Every part of her body is just corpse. Yeah. Limp.

Morgan (18:48)
Mmm.

Jen (18:49)
Mm, yes.

Morgan (18:56)
Limp.

Jen (18:56)
Yeah. Yeah. I think in

the script it said something about her being robotic. we had rehearsal. honestly the actress sort of just knew like this is what it is. I mean they were so in tune with these characters and what they were going for.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (19:01)
Mm-hmm.

Morgan (19:02)
Yes.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (19:05)
Yay, that's

Mm-hmm.

Jen (19:14)
again, it was like, is it robotic or is it possession or is know, 'cause it's ambiguous.

Morgan (19:18)
Yeah, it's a bit ambiguous exactly like what is happening to her.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (19:18)
Exactly.

Jen (19:21)
It's so interesting because the version I saw in the movie theater was not that version.

my understanding is that the streaming cut is different than the theatrical release, I this is not what I saw when I saw it in the movie theater.

Morgan (19:31)
Okay.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (19:35)
And Morgan, is this what you saw in your version?

Morgan (19:37)
This is what I saw.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (19:38)
Okay, can you tell us what it was in theaters?

Jen (19:41)
it wasn't that side angle. It was a wider shot from behind Bear a little bit more and also it was shorter. It but I will tell you this. this scene is actually longer in the script.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (19:52)
Was shorter.

You know what?

It's funny that you say that. I have a copy from

of what I believe is the script. I'd love to know if this is correct. So just to read it for our audience: interior Bears House.

Jen (20:03)
Of the script? Okay.

Okay.

Hold on one second.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (20:13)
Bedroom night. Nikki slams Bear against the wall, kissing fiercely. They move to the bed where Bear playfully pushes her down. Clothes shed. Bear kisses her neck. Mid moan, Nikki locks eyes with Bear, her expression shifting to sheer panic. With a frantic shove, she pushes him away, lets out a blood curdling scream, her body trembling. Nikki says, Bear, what the fuck? Bear remains unfazed, his eerie, calm demeanor chilling. Within moments, she's back, kissing his stomach. The disturbance registers as nothing more than a fleeting inconvenience to him. Nikki says I'm sorry baby. Bear says it's ok baby. Is this what you remember?

Jen (20:49)
Yeah. I love that they made this shorter. and on top of that, there was a another scene in the script that was similar to this, where she also has a freak out, and he's like, my god, my So they sort of do threes, right? There's the first.

Morgan (20:58)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Jen (21:04)
There's the first scene where initially she's like, Whoa, and then they don't have seks. Then there's another scene where similar thing happens and he's like, my god, my god, what is going on? and then this scene, which is just extended. I love that they made this shorter and they kept it more nuanced. it makes so much more sense

It makes Bear's character more nuanced. when I read the script, I was like, non-consent, non-consent, My prep with the actors was like, so you understand this is non-consensual, yes. if the scene had been how it was originally it would have the R word all over it. And I not that it doesn't currently, but I think it's more nuanced.

Morgan (21:34)
Right.

Jen (21:45)
it's R word, R word, R word all over.

Morgan (21:45)
Mm-hmm.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (21:48)
How did it develop from this to what we see here? Was it just based on actor boundaries? was it your conversations with production that shifted the narrative? Was it just production itself changing their minds? How did it sort of shift here?

Jen (22:02)
it just got changed. I had heard conversations about Bear is really... like we need to make him a little bit less

Morgan (22:10)
Yeah.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (22:11)
Capital V violent.

Jen (22:11)
you know capital V violent,

Morgan (22:13)
Yeah.

Jen (22:14)
I read the script again last night like wow there's a lot of differences in here got cut, scenes got switched

Morgan (22:18)
Mm.

Jen (22:21)
they came to a better movie by doing all the things they did. I I think it is part why it is as successful as it is

Morgan (22:24)
Yeah.

Jen (22:29)
and I've never seen so many people having discussions about a horror movie the way they are about this one. You know, I love that people are talking about consent. I love that people are talking about bodily autonomy. there's one blogger, I guess a vlogger, was talking about this scene in particular, and she said it was the scariest scene in the movie for her

Ariel Leigh Cohen (22:36)
Yeah. Yeah.

Morgan (22:36)
Yeah.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (22:47)
Mm-hmm.

Morgan (22:52)
It's something that I really appreciated about the film. She is not completely possessed. There's still a bit of the original Nikki fighting in there. And sometimes we see her come out more than others. And feel like the demon Nikki is making the sounds and is

Jen (23:02)
Mm-hmm.

Morgan (23:10)
maybe moving forward with the act, but the real Nikki is trapped inside there and you see it physically with what's going on too.

Jen (23:18)
the expression on her face. we did talk about that. very much like, Do you think it's this? Do you think it's this? it like in 2024 so I'm trying to think back I feel like she's looking up at him and she's sort of in it and then she turns her face. And we have that beat.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (23:20)
Yeah.

yeah, it's been a

Jen (23:34)
It's kind of incredible what

this movie has done, yeah, I there and I'm so happy for them. They're just

Ariel Leigh Cohen (23:41)
Yay!

Morgan (23:41)
I love that.

Jen (23:42)
Yay.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (23:43)
well I'd love to also go over one other moment. So for scene two that we'll go over,

Bear secretly goes out to meet up with him and Nikki's mutual friend Sarah to talk. Nikki finds them and kills Sarah by bashing her face in with a brick in front of him. Later, when Bear comes home, he finds Sarah. So, time code here is gonna be about 1:36:56 to about 1:37:24.

Jen (24:00)
Mm-hmm.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (24:10)
Sorry, it's it's like not scrambling well. ⁓ 36. I believe it to my core. Like I normally I am not this fumbly. I'm no this is kind of unusual actually.

Morgan (24:14)
It's Mercury.

Jen (24:21)
Mm-hmm.

Morgan (24:21)
You're not. You're not. No, that's what I'm like

I mean, if we're talking about possession, like Mercury's possessing us right now, that's what's happening.

Jen (24:29)
Yeah,

yeah.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (24:30)
I believe it. I believe it. I'm not a big crystals horoscope person, but Mercury in retrograde every single time hits me like a brick to the face. Get it? Obsession. Anyway, hey

Morgan (24:39)
Yes. Hey!

Jen (24:43)
Bringing it back,

Ariel Leigh Cohen (24:46)
He's seeing this altar.

It's real creepy. It's real creepy. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good set deck.

Morgan (24:48)
to him. So creepy. The set design's incredible.

Jen (24:51)
Yeah.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (24:58)
I love her like in the background, like creeping. And then we see this. Okay. And then we just see Sarah's no clothes body, blood everywhere, sitting in this chair, like propped up. Like she was put there.

Morgan (25:00)
Yes! I'm in the video behind him.

Yeah, we see full frontal nudity.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (25:15)
Yes. Including pubic hair. And there's also a video in the background of him potentially no clothes or like his upper body just sort of playing awkwardly in the background. And she's wearing Sarah's clothing.

Morgan (25:17)
Yes.

Mmm.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (25:32)
Alright, and we will stop there. Alright, so tell us all about it.

Jen (25:36)
Right.

you know, that's a dummy. It's not really Megan.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (25:39)
Sure.

Morgan (25:40)
⁓

Jen (25:40)
so I will say I was not there for this scene.

our freaking makeup people were incredible. this is all Allie and production design and I was not even there for that day. Yeah,

Ariel Leigh Cohen (25:52)
Okay.

Morgan (25:52)
⁓ okay. Good to know.

So you weren't on it. Yes.

Jen (25:55)
So you have to remember small budget.

I don't think in the script it says that Sarah's no clothes body is there. ⁓ because I had noticed when I read it last night there was stuff that I was like, ⁓ we did this, we didn't do this. Like

Morgan (26:04)
God.

Jen (26:11)
the conversation with him and the one wish willow company is not in the script. So yes. Yeah. So there's a lot there's a lot of changes

Morgan (26:15)
Mm-hmm.

Really? That feels like a pretty pivotal scene.

Jen (26:25)
I don't recall that description of Sarah being in the script. the scene with the door where the door is like taped shut, not in the script. It just says he leaves.

Morgan (26:33)
Mm-hmm.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (26:34)
Yeah. Interesting.

Jen (26:39)
that first scene for me was more about

the acting and just shifting some things. So when we had originally shot it, they were sitting side by side and she kisses him. What they sort of shifted was her turning her back and then kissing him. And just adding a little bit more gravitas to that scene. Because I think they wanted it to feel more like authentic, maybe actually really is in love with him

Ariel Leigh Cohen (27:05)
Also when we have camera facing his face, it becomes his story and not hers.

Morgan (27:10)
Right.

So usually at this point of the show, we do our spice scale where we rate intimacy scenes based on consent and power dynamics, technical craft and coordination excellence and heat factor. Since the intimacy in obsession is incredible, we're going to alter this a bit, call it behind the spice.

Jen (27:12)
Yeah.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (27:29)
Mm-hmm.

Morgan (27:30)
where we use the Spice Scale as a guide to further the discussion about intimacy scenes and get our guests perspective on what they worked on.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (27:38)
So consent and power dynamics, how the scene depicts consent and power in the story, and if known behind the scenes. since we're focusing on this one scene, the power dynamics are very clear here in that he is in power and she is absolutely And it's not consenting. J

Jen (27:43)
Crazy.

Mm-hmm.

No. So

the whole script is about non consent, right? She's not consenting to any of this. And so this again, when I when I had my meeting with the actors, when I talked to the director, after I read the script, I was just like, non consent. my God. Whoa!

Morgan (27:59)
Yes.

Yeah.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (28:11)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jen (28:13)
my meeting with the actors was very much about so you know, the first questions I always ask is, did you read the script? ⁓

Ariel Leigh Cohen (28:19)
Yep. Yes.

Morgan (28:19)
Great first question.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (28:25)
That has not happened. Yep. And you're like, there's only fifty scenes. Like Yeah.

Morgan (28:25)
People will be like, ⁓ that's happening?

Jen (28:27)
And they're like, is there intimacy in this script?

Yeah. I I need you to go back and read scene twelve. You

know, because it's it's a lot. they both were very clear. They knew exactly what was being asked of them. I think they really did their best to show that this was a scene of non consent

Ariel Leigh Cohen (28:49)
Yeah.

I'm just curious, it's very possible this was just never discussed, but like, was there ever a conversation about the difference between real Nikki and sort of possessed Nikki and if possessed Nikki character had any level of consent or if it was just non-consent because we're only considering real Nikki to be the person here?

Jen (29:11)
yeah, I mean there was a little bit of discussion just sort of about where real Nikki is in that and is where she's this is an Inde question and I know her and Curry had very extensive conversations about this.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (29:18)
Yeah.

Morgan (29:19)
Where is she?

Ariel Leigh Cohen (29:20)
Yes, where i where is she? Uh-huh.

Jen (29:28)
while we were in the space, we were talking about like what is the expression on her face? Is she crying? robotic? Is it demonic? and we did a couple of takes, but really not a lot of takes, but that is sort of what she came up with, which is just incredible. And I know Michael didn't even see that, I think, until

Morgan (29:32)
guess.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (29:43)
It's harrowing.

Jen (29:48)
The screening.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (29:50)
Alright, Morgan, you wanna go for technical craft?

Morgan (29:52)
technical craft and coordination excellence, the staging, film coverage, modesty, protection, choreography, and overall execution of the scene. Now, I know a good amount of this was, you know, the actors performances really sold what exactly was happening in the scene But the choreography is also very clear. Like we were talking about before how

Jen (29:53)
Well

Okay.

Morgan (30:16)
He's also kind of moving robotically, but also her looking away from him, his back of his head towards camera, her arm just like on him, her legs not wrapped around him, I don't think she's even moving her hips in this, Yeah.

Jen (30:31)
No, She's

totally just laying there. Yeah, I mean we talked we had about a r a rehearsal where we talked about how fast. is the tone, what is the beat.

wearing either a Tuck-It or a Hibue and then they have like a pillow between them.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (30:42)
Mm-hmm.

Sure. You can't see it at all, so awesome job. Mm-hmm.

Morgan (30:44)
Okay, yeah.

Jen (30:46)
So right. You can't see it. He's like lifted up a little anyway.

And then the way it's shot, I mean our cinematographer was fantastic. I remember Taylor sitting in the bathroom because there's literally a bathroom for a full on profile shot. He was like on a toilet like with the camera. Because that's what you do.

Morgan (30:51)
Yeah.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (30:58)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yep. Yep.

Jen (31:06)
fully clothed on top, she's wearing sweatpants on the bottom.

Morgan (31:09)
obviously this is an nonconsensual scene, but sometimes audience viewers will be like, is it seksy to shoot a seks scene? It's like, no, like one of the actors is in sweatpants. They have a pillow between them. There's someone sitting on the toilet watching them with the camera.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (31:16)
Like nah.

Jen (31:17)
No.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (31:23)
This is

Jen (31:26)
Yeah, and then me and the director on Video Village in the bedroom, like right in the corner, wedged in, and then sound is over them. I mean

Morgan (31:32)
Yeah. ⁓

Ariel Leigh Cohen (31:37)
just with positioning.

Morgan (31:37)
I liked what you were saying about the speed though

in the conversation around it because the speed that he's going at is not for her pleasure. It's for his. It almost feels like he's self stimulating with her.

Jen (31:43)
No. Yes.

love that. he's not looking at her at all. ⁓ it's Yeah. It's not like they're like looking at each other and having a moment and she's like, Yes, baby, yes, baby. It's like complete opposite.

Morgan (31:50)
Yeah, it's so weird.

Yeah.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (31:58)
He's like here, she's like

Morgan (31:59)
Which earlier,

yeah, earlier in the movie during the montage when we see them having seks like they are engaged and looking at each other and that's why it feels like, maybe this is working out. Maybe the wish wasn't such a bad idea.

Jen (32:07)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (32:14)
It's like no, it's horrible. ⁓ I

Jen (32:18)
Again, I think that's why those earlier scenes didn't really happen because I I think the montage says what it's gonna say. Right? Look, this is a happy, blissful couple, and then this scene in the restaurant happens and then this scene happens. And we didn't need to beat it over the head, which is what the producer had said to me. She's like, We just didn't need to keep showing that. We didn't that was not really

Morgan (32:25)
Mm-hmm.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (32:34)
Yeah.

Morgan (32:41)
We didn't need to smash it into a brick, you know? Yeah.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (32:43)
Yeah.

Jen (32:44)
Only one person gets smashed into a

Ariel Leigh Cohen (32:48)
I also just loved when they fin or when he he rolled over onto his back that she like ceases to exist. She leaves the frame and it's just him, and him just out of breath, like, he is not thinking about her at all. This is just him and his experience. she could be his hand, essentially. Mm-hmm.

Morgan (32:58)
Yes!

Jen (33:06)
Yeah. And he says that's w it was amazing.

Morgan (33:12)
What was amazing about it? It wasn't even the joke of like, was it as good for you as it was for me? Like he just is like 10 out of 10.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (33:12)
He said that was amazing. ⁓ my.

Jen (33:20)
No I

Ariel Leigh Cohen (33:21)
No, he was just like that was that was perfect perfect

Jen (33:23)
Yeah, it was great.

Excuse

Ariel Leigh Cohen (33:25)
seks is that he enjoyed himself. Like

Jen (33:27)
Yes.

So well And I'm not saying that for me. I'm saying that like what Curry Yeah, the editing.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (33:33)
For them, yeah. Yeah.

Morgan (33:35)
I'm saying it for you. I'm going to cheerlead you and say that you did a great job in this. I know you're very

humble, but we have to give you props. That's why we have you on here, Jen.

Jen (33:43)
It's just thank you. It's very sweet.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (33:47)
Which brings us to heat factor, the level of erotic charge or seggsual tension in the scene, which is a zero, so it is a five, you know what I mean?

Morgan (33:49)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

how hot did they intend this scene to be? And I think the intention was a zero. Yeah.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (34:01)
Was it successful? Yeah, so yeah. They did not want us

Jen (34:02)
Yeah, it's not intention. Yeah, no. No.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (34:07)
to feel like, damn, look at this. They wanted us to feel like damn look at this. Like, my god.

Jen (34:10)
Yeah.

Yeah. Well,

and it was so rewarding seeing it in the theater and hearing people gasp. Like what I loved about seeing this movie in the theaters was ⁓ no. Like hearing that, I was like, yes,

Ariel Leigh Cohen (34:16)
Hmm. Yeah.

Morgan (34:18)
Woo!

Ariel Leigh Cohen (34:25)
Ha ha ha.

Morgan (34:25)
Yeah.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (34:29)
Amazing. Is there anything else that you'd like to discuss as far as what this experience was

Jen (34:37)
I just have nothing but positive feelings about it it's crazy that I'm involved in a project that has blown up like this. I think this is a once in a lifetime

the fact that I and speaking about stunt, like that I'm involved with a scene that is now known as iconic. the scene at the end, the head smashy that it has become an iconic scene and will go down in the whatever the annals as one of the most graphic, you know, but that I got to be a part of keeping them safe

Ariel Leigh Cohen (35:08)
Sorry to interrupt, just just since you worked on that, I know it's not intimacy, but can you tell us about that scene and that moment? What was that process like?

Jen (35:14)
God. Yeah, well that process

was a phone call going, Hey there's a scene, you know, the the head smashing with the brick. I was like, Yeah, that okay, how are we doing this? Okay, well, they've gotten the glass from

Ariel Leigh Cohen (35:20)
ha.

Jen (35:29)
Alfonso's or wick wherever and like what kind of glass is it? And I was like, okay, do we have a stunt double? No, we don't.

Okay. ⁓

and the first thing I said was, I cannot have her do that stunt. without some form of protection. Michael has to turn his face away, Megan has to turn her face away.

never know what the glass is gonna do. We all say, it's safe, but those shards can do

Right. I've had beer bottles go and into eyeballs.

And I'm like, we need glasses, we need this, we need that. also she's tiny, right? And I'm like, Well kind of a car is it? 'cause if the windows are too tall, like she's not gonna get to the the speed and momentum where

her head needs to hit the proper positioning because if it's too low, she's gonna hit her head, right? All of those conversations. And like just the collaboration was incredible. And so they came up with like a helmet, like a full on with a wig over it and she had like goggles or glasses on. Because I just can't have her sending her eyeballs through even if it's sugar glass.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (36:28)
Mm-hmm.

Sure.

Jen (36:41)
I cannot

do that. And then the brick was foam. on the day, like I worked with Megan and and Inde so we had two takes. They had three pieces of glass, only two survived. so the first take was kind of was okay. It's just that there was

that had fallen into frame and so it was like okay we got one more guys and that one was perfect i mean the glass just it broke perfectly and i actually i have the footage i put it on my she grabs megan's head and megan is fully controlling it ⁓ and i had megan send her head in not her nose

Ariel Leigh Cohen (37:01)
god.

Morgan (37:14)
Mm.

Mmm.

Jen (37:19)
And she

just did it a couple of times. eventually they put the doll in. And the doll is what you end up seeing. And then apparently there's like an NC 17 cut where the doll is just she's just hitting and hitting and hitting and hitting. And then you start to see the face peel away and blood. And then Megan did ADR to make gurgling sounds.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (37:29)
⁓

my god.

Morgan (37:41)
⁓ my god!

Jen (37:43)
Apparently that was too much. So what the theatrical I don't know what the director 'cause apparently that's supposed to be in the director's cut. So once they put the doll in, it was like sort of out of my my hands. But like the again, the makeup team, incredible.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (37:45)
Maybe a little bit.

Morgan (37:47)
I guess.

Fascinating.

Jen (38:01)
I'm so blessed to have just worked on this project. Like I I what else could I ask for? You know? Yeah, thank you.

Morgan (38:04)
Mm.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (38:06)
That's amazing. Thank you so much for sharing that with us. Alright,

well, we don't want to take up any more of your time. You've been so generous with it.

Jen (38:16)
you.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (38:16)
fantastic.

Thank you so so much.

That was so much fun.

Morgan (38:23)
So much fun.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (38:25)
It's so fascinating talking to stunt coordinators slash intimacy coordinators hearing her talk about the intimacy scenes versus her talking about the brick-in-the-face scene. Like it's just, it's so fascinating to me. I was like enthralled. Yeah.

Morgan (38:34)
Yeah. He kind of saw her switch between the two modes where like for intimacy scenes she's

saying she's like, well, we had the rehearsal and we had this conversation and that and then we talked about speed. Yeah. And then I was like, OK, well, we're going to need a helmet. We're going to need goggles. So she's a face. And I was like, wow, this is so cool.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (38:43)
Yeah we had this. And it's just like Break to a face

Ha ha ha

It was such a great vibe. Such a kind, kind person. I so appreciate it. Absolutely.

Morgan (38:59)
I

also just so incredibly humble. like, you have been doing this for a minute and you're so good at it. I agree with your husband. Part of the reason this film succeeded is because of the work you did. You know, it takes everyone on the crew to make this movie.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (39:04)
Yeah. Like good job.

Yeah. It was because of you. Yeah.

Correct.

Morgan (39:19)
It was so

interesting to hear about the theatrical cut versus the streaming cut versus what was originally in the script.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (39:28)
Yeah, I mean I I always know that there are these different versions. We've experienced that on our end, like just for this podcast alone. But like I'm so curious about the other versions now, and maybe we need to do a mini episode once it comes out in different varieties, like to react differently to them.

Morgan (39:34)
For sure.

I know.

Yeah, see the

director's cut, see the NC 17 cut.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (39:49)
my gosh, the NC seventeen cut. What what more did we miss?

Morgan (39:51)
Well, I'm also

like, what was the TIF cut versus the theatrical cut?

Ariel Leigh Cohen (39:57)
huh.

⁓ I guess we'll find out later, and so will you, audience, when we know.

Morgan (39:59)
⁓ I'm,

I know, I'm about to go into so many rabbit holes. I'm gonna be obsessed.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (40:05)
For real.

That was so good. That was so good, Morgan. That was so good. my god, so punny. Amazing work. Amazing. I think I I think there's nothing more we can say about that. I think we're good.

Morgan (40:13)
I had two in this episode! Wow, the dad jokes.

No, let's do the credits.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (40:30)
Alright. Well, thanks so much for listening to Faking It. This episode's research and context was done by me, Ariel.

Morgan (40:36)
You can find us on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or anywhere you get your podcasts. New episodes drop every other hump day, Wednesday.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (40:44)
If this was good for you, the best way to support our show is to follow the podcast and leave a quick rating or review. It takes less than thirty seconds and it really helps us.

Morgan (40:54)
Tell one friend who loves spicy movie secrets about us. Find us on social media at FakingItThePod.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (41:00)
Want to get involved? Head to patreon.com/slash faking it the pod. For just one dollar, you can request scenes for us to break down. For ten dollars, you can get bonus content and never-before seen footage. And for five dollars, you can get a shout-out like these listeners! Thank you, Lee, GoodBiGuy and Kiki Brown. Yay!

Morgan (41:22)
Woo! This

episode was produced by Ariel Leigh Cohen, social media and branding by Morgan Smith. Our theme song is Faking It by Mike Goetz Credits for the film or show we reacted to are in the episode caption. Stay real fakers.

Ariel Leigh Cohen (41:38)
Woo!