Leadership Presence: The Career Skill That Sets Top Professionals Apart with Dan Grisoni

In this episode, I'm joined by leadership coach and trainer Dan Grisoni to explore what leadership presence really means and why it has nothing to do with being the loudest person in the room. Drawing on our combined experience in HR, leadership, and coaching, we unpack how confidence, authenticity, emotional intelligence, and communication shape the way others perceive you in interviews, at work, and throughout your career. Whether you're preparing for your next interview, stepping into leadership, or looking to advance your career, this conversation will help you develop a leadership presence that builds trust and creates new opportunities.

Tune in to hear more about:
• Why leadership presence is a learnable skill built through consistency, confidence, authenticity, and emotional intelligence rather than personality or charisma
• The biggest misconceptions about leadership presence and why you don't need to be the loudest or most extroverted person to make a lasting impression
• How leadership presence influences interviews, from answering behavioural questions with confidence to demonstrating self-awareness, composure, and genuine curiosity
• What hiring managers and interviewers are really evaluating beyond your qualifications, including the subtle signals that build trust and credibility
• How authenticity, emotional regulation, and intentional communication help you stand out, strengthen workplace relationships, and position yourself for promotions and leadership opportunities
• Practical strategies to develop your leadership presence over time so you can communicate with greater confidence and advance your career with purpose

Tune into this episode of Career Ambitions to discover how developing your leadership presence can help you build confidence, earn trust, stand out in interviews, and create new opportunities throughout your career.

Guest Links:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dangrisoni/
Website: https://dangrisoni.com/

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Threads: Joanne Sparrow 🔹 (@careercoachjo) 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Career Ambitions. The podcast for corporate professionals who are ready to stop waiting and take control of their careers. If you are tired of sending applications into the vlog and you're wondering why you're not getting interviews and watching opportunities to go to people who are no more qualified than you, you're in the right place, my friends. I'm sure when spiral former interdirector turned career coach. And I've spent more than two decades sitting on the other side of the hungering table. That means I know exactly what hungry minutes are sleeping and what they see behind closed doors. Join me on this episode of Career Ambitions. We're pulling up the curtains on the Hunter and promises and unapologetically exposing the truth. Jump seekers are never told to give you the strategy and competence to move your career forward and limend your dream jump or promotion. Hello everyone, and welcome back to Career Ambitions. I'm Joanne Sparrow, career coach, former HR director, and someone who has spent more than two decades inside of hiring, talent, and leadership conversations. And today we're talking about a topic that can shape how you are perceived at work, how you show up in interviews, and how confidently you move through your career. That topic is leadership presence. This is something that gets talked about often, but not always clearly. A lot of people assume leadership presence means being extroverted, polished, or the loudest voice in the room. But from what I've seen in HR and career coaching, that is not what truly sets people apart. Leadership presence is about how you show up, it's about your confidence, your clarity, your credibility, and the trust people feel when they interact with you. To help us unpack this, I'm joined by Dan Grizzoni. And Dan works with leaders on how they communicate, lead with confidence, and show up more effectively without burning themselves out in the process. And I'm pleased to have Dan here with us today. Dan and I met, I think it was 2016 when we were both in a career coaching certification cohort. And uh I truly admire the work you're doing today, Dan, and would love to have you before we jump in, would love for you to introduce yourself to our listeners and share a little bit about the work you do and what drew you to this area of leadership development.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Well, thank you, Joanne. Um I'm absolutely thrilled to be here with you today. So, in order for me to explain a little bit about myself, I'm really curious, Joanne. Uh, with your permission, I'd love to ask you a quick question. Um, and I'm really curious uh to hear who taught you to lead people.

SPEAKER_00 2:52

That is a very interesting question. When I look back on my career, I've had some really great leaders and mentors, and I've also had some really not so great leaders. Um, so I think it's a combination of watching, observing how other leaders get the best out of people, and also how those people that weren't so great at leading, you know, taught me what not to do. I've certainly had my ups and downs as a leader and challenges, um, you know, navigating different personalities and egos and goals and aspirations, but um I really didn't have structured learning, which I think is the biggest miss in the workforce today. Many organizations don't offer that. So um, yeah, I learned by example.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

Learn by example. And in fact, most leaders learn by example and learn by doing and making those errors. And based on my experience, that's the exact same way that I learned how to lead people. It was about watching those people that succeeded. It was about watching the leaders that perhaps were challenged. And you also kind of learn through people as to don't do this because of the implications of any communication approaches, actions that they take. And so throughout my career in training and development and in human resources, I spent people, I saw people watching and trying to grow. And they would get promoted. But after they got promoted, they quietly struggled because what they started to realize was being good at your job, being knowledgeable and having all the technical aptitudes and the competencies versus how to lead people are two very completely different skills. And nobody really prepares new leaders for that. In fact, this is also true of existing leaders like yourself and myself in different organizations. We did not necessarily have a structured training program on how to manage versus how to lead, right? And as a result of that, um, people recognize only afterwards that they've been promoted that their leadership development did not come with a playbook or even a manual. So as a leadership coach and trainer, I get to partner with managers, directors, and HR professionals and coach and teach them how to lead people and teams.

SPEAKER_00 5:49

Amazing. And you've done so well since you um got your certification. I want to start with the basics because I think this is one of those phrases people often hear, but they define very differently. So, question for you, Dan, is when you hear the phrase leadership presence, what does it actually mean to you?

SPEAKER_01 6:10

That is a brilliant question. Um, and I say brilliant because we could pull a hundred people or even 10 people, and we will consistently receive a different answer. And it leadership presence, also known as executive presence, is often misunderstood by many. Uh, and everyone simply has a different viewpoint or definition of what it is. Yet when I think of it, leadership presence is what's left when you strip away the performance, the pause before you react, the consistency that people can count on, and the sense that you're actually with them, not just managing them. Leadership presence is quiet, it's learnable, and it helped and it almost has nothing to do with being the most confident person in the room.

SPEAKER_00 7:14

And that is such an important distinction because I think so many professionals assume presence is about performance when it really is much more about how people experience you. And from my side, as a former HR director, I saw this play out constantly in hiring. Two candidates could have similar qualifications on paper, but the person who communicated with more clarity, confidence, and calm can often uh often left the stronger impression. So, do you think leadership presence is something people are born with, or is it something they can build over time?

SPEAKER_01 7:52

Overall, just like everything else when it comes to leadership, leadership presence can be developed over time. That said, some people may have some innate skills that cause them to appear to be more natural. But others, when they focus their time and their energy, they are able to successfully develop. The key is that leadership presence can be learned, but it happens over a period of time. It's not like a switch. You say, okay, today I'm going to demonstrate leadership presence, and everybody's going to feel it and know it. Um, it is intentional based on how we show up in each and every single conversation, meeting, initiative, uh, and how we're actually communicating with others.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

Yes, exactly. And I think it's one of the biggest barriers for job seekers and professionals is the belief that they have to become someone they're not in order to have that presence. So, what are some of the biggest misconceptions people have about leadership presence?

SPEAKER_01 9:08

There are so many. There are absolutely so many. However, I think the list is quite long. So I'm going to focus on maybe one or two of them. Um, first of all, one of the myths or misconceptions is that leadership presence means dominating the room, right? But most people picture leadership presence as being the loudest voice, the most confident talker, the person who takes up the most space in the room. But that is charisma and it's not presence. And when I say it's charisma, it's interesting because charisma itself is a very interesting word. And how do you really define what is charisma, right? Is it personality? Is it joyousness? Is it humor? Who knows, right? Again, it's one of those words that if you take a poll, everyone will have a different definition to. So it's a skill stack and it's not necessarily a birthright, which is exactly why it can be coached.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

How does authenticity fit into this?

SPEAKER_01 11:50

So authenticity is the piece that makes presence sustainable instead of feeling exhausting. Um, and here's the connection: if presence is essentially built from learnable behaviors, like we have been saying, there's a real risk of that tipping into performance. Leaders start doing the behaviors of presence, steady voice, measured pauses, calm effect without it being genuinely theirs. People then feel the gap. It reads as polished but hollow. And it's exhausting to maintain because you're essentially acting and you are not being yourself. Authenticity is what closes the gap. And a few ways that it actually functions in leadership presence, rather than just being a buzzword, is about coherence and not disclosure. And by that I mean authentic leadership isn't about oversharing feelings or being raw in every meeting. It's about your outward behavior matching your internal values, meaning what you say and how you act, and what you actually believe that is lining up. That coherence is what people unconsciously pick up on and they end up trusting. The other aspect is that it allows for range instead of a mask. So a leader who thinks presence means being calm all the time and being composed all the time is performing a single note. An authentic leader can be direct, uncertain, energized, and or even firm. They are genuine in the moment and it still reads as presence because it's congruent with what's actually happening, not because it fits a script or a mold of what people believe a leader should or should not be doing.

SPEAKER_00 14:05

Yeah, this is so good because some of the strongest leaders I've had the pleasure of working with were not the loudest people in the room. They were very thoughtful, grounded, and intentional. And people trusted them because of how they carried themselves and communicated.

SPEAKER_01 14:21

Absolutely. So uh when I get to partner with clients, I often tell them that leadership presence is not about being the most polished leader or the most polished person that shows up. It's about helping others feel confidence in you. And that comes through your tone, your messaging, your preparation, and your ability to stay steady under pressure. This is where the emotional intelligence really comes into play.

SPEAKER_00 14:54

Yes, and I love the topic of emotional intelligence, so much so that I got uh became a certified practitioner with an organization so that employers can measure the level of emotional intelligence in their organizations and how people are demonstrating that in the workplace. So let's talk specifically about job interviews, because this is where so many listeners are trying to make a strong impression in a short amount of time, and how you show up in those interviews and conveying your responses around those behavioral-based questions. You can really um elaborate uh or go deep on um your self-awareness, and that self-awareness will come through in the answers. And so, how does leadership presence show up in an interview setting, in your opinion, Dev?

SPEAKER_01 15:49

I love this question because it's multifaceted, right? So the the first thing is that interviews are actually a concentrated test or assessment of presence because that format strips away a lot of the usual supports in that there is no control over the agenda, it's not your home turf, and it's really not about ongoing relationship in the beginning. You are starting to build that relationship. And it puts someone under real-time evaluation pressure. So, a few of the ways that it shows up is how the individual handles the pause before answering. So, someone with presence simply does not rush to fill silence with a tough question. They take a moment to really think about the answer. And they're not afraid to say, hmm, I need to think about that. And so candidates without it often either blurt the first thing that comes to their mind or overexplain to cover the discomfort of the quietness or the nervousness that they may be feeling. But when you take a two-second pause, that's two-second pause reads as confidence and not hesitation. But only if the interviewer isn't primed to see all the silence as a red flag. The second is whether they are answering the question or performing an answer. So presence shows up as a genuine engagement with what's actually being asked versus reciting a preloaded script that sort of fits, I think is the right way to say it. Interviewers can usually feel when someone shifts from responding to you to deploying prepared answers. The energy of the individual changes, eye con the eye contact often um drifts, and the pacing in which the person is speaking speeds up because they're simply trying to get through the answer really, really quickly in hopes that they right because of that discomfort. The other aspect is how they handle a question that they don't have a great answer to. And this is probably the clearest tell. So low presence is about deflecting, over justifying, or faking certainty. High presence is really about acknowledging the gap plainly and saying things like, I haven't dealt with that exact scenario, but here's how I'd think through it, without losing their composure or even overapologizing. It's a small moment, but it tells the interviewer a lot about how that person will handle being wrong or stuck in the job that they're in, right? In those moments of what do I do? The other aspect is the congruence between energy and content. So if someone says, I'm really passionate about this role, in a flat, disengaged tone, there's a mismatch and people will remember the way you have communicated something. They don't necessarily remember the words. So presence is when tone, body language, and content are all telling the same story. I think the last item I would say is really how the candidate or the leader in the interview is treating the interviewer as a person and not as an obstacle. So it's a small thing, but it's real. Asking a simple, genuine follow-up question, reacting to something that the interviewer said earlier in the conversation, rather than treating it as a checklist or a to-do, right, makes a big difference because it signals that the individual is actually in the room and they're not just executing a performance. The interesting wrinkle for coaching purposes, right? Um, interview presence is one of the few contexts where authenticity versus skill and the tension associated with it that you asked about earlier gets tested under real states. So too much raw authority or authenticity, unfiltered nerves, rambling, you know, honesty can really come across as you being unprepared, while too much polish can read like you're just rehearsing a script. The sweet spot is being prepared but present, no knowing your material well enough so that you're not searching for it. So there is bandwidth left to actually be in that conversation.

SPEAKER_00 21:01

Yes, be present in the conversation. And so what are interviewers picking up beyond the actual answers?

SPEAKER_01 21:11

Again, so many different dynamics here and so many different possibilities. But I myself, when I have interviewed others, or even when I am uh meeting with a potential first-time leader who wishes to be coached, um, you're assessing many different things. So an interviewer would look at things like how do you regulate your emotions under stress, right? Um how consistent are you being across the entire conversation in the interview? How does the leader or the candidate treat power dynamics in the room? Because sometimes you could be um At a table, and there could be four or five potential colleagues sitting around you, across from you, with you, right? And so, how are you interacting with the others and managing and going along with the different dynamics in the room? Also, how are you listening? Are you actually processing what is being said? Or are you just trying to inject answers, or are you waiting for their turn to talk? And this shows up in how you ask your follow-up questions or questions during the conversation that you're having with the interviewer. Another item is self-awareness. So when people talk about their own weaknesses, mistakes, or even gaps, interviewers are picking up on how they're actually telling the story. And with proportion and with ownership or with fake modesty, you know, I just work too hard. I'm a really hard worker. I don't watch the clock, right? Or are they seeing even excessive self, what's the word, flagellation, right? Both extremes can read as a lack of calibration. The other aspect is really the energy towards other people mentioned in their stories. And finally, I would also say whether the candidate is genuinely curious, or do they just seem like they want the job? They just want the job. But curiosity is so important because it's that curiosity that demonstrates the true interest and what the individual is interested in, and that they have that growth mindset that they want to really learn. So none of this is being consciously scored on a rubric in 99% of the time, right? And many interviewers, and correct me if I'm wrong, Joanne, but yes, they may there may be behavioral questions, and they're leveraging how the process in which people have tackled different initiatives or challenges, but the interviewer is also building a relationship with that individual. So there's that gut feeling, right, that comes to mind. And the interviewer, the interviewer will also maybe share that maybe something felt off or something was really, really good about it, but they just can't put their finger on it, what it was. There was a dynamic that was present. And so this is really great for coaching and being able to partner with a career coach as well, who can actually walk you through different ways on how to approach different questions and how to be able to tell your story without bragging.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

Yes. And that um gut feeling is so um key in the interview process. I mean, a candidate could check all of the boxes 100%. Excuse me, 100%. But if their gut is saying something's off, they're gonna keep looking at different candidates. And so from the hiring side, I can say that employers are rarely assessing just skills. They're also thinking, can I trust this person with clients, with the team, in leadership conversations and challenges that come with the role? Can they ultimately reduce the risk? And they're evaluating whether the candidate can think clearly, communicate effectively, and represent the organization well. Leadership presence does not only matter when someone is trying to land a role. It also plays a huge role in how they are perceived once they are in the organization. How do you see leadership presence influencing career growth and advancement inside the workplace?

SPEAKER_01 26:17

Leadership presence often does more for career advancement than technical competency. And it's worth being precise about this mechanism because be more visible advice tends to miss why it actually works. So it shapes who gets remembered in the room, not just who contributes. It signals readiness before the role even exists, right? So oftentimes people end up creating their own roles, and then it's deemed a leadership role, right? It's also um it determines who gets the stretch opportunities that then enable the person to be able to showcase their collaboration, their presence, their relationship-building skills, right?

SPEAKER_00 27:15

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

And it affects how feedback and mistakes land. So someone with steady presence who makes an error tends to get read as the individual had a bad week, right? Uh, the mistake is then compartmentalized. Someone without making the same mistake is often read as confirming a broader doubt about their capability. The same mistake, different narrative, because presence acts as a kind of credibility buffer. It's also the deciding factor in close calls. So when two people are similarly qualified on paper, presence is very often the icebreaker. Not because it's fair, but because ambiguous decisions get resolved by gut feel. And presence is what gut feel is actually tracking. As we talk about with the as we talked about the interview signals earlier, the emotional regulation, the consistency, and how someone holds themselves under scrutiny. These are all key ways in which people remember, right? People will remember different things about people. Something that I do want to call out is uh attention, which is important if you're ever considering coaching. Uh, and working through the tension creates a real equity problem. Because presence, as traditionally read, is culturally coded. It often rewards a narrow style of assertiveness, extroversion, and being effusive, and can penalize people whose authentic presence is quieter, more reflective, or shaped by a different cultural background. This is where authenticity that we discussed really matters when it comes to career coaching or even leadership coaching. The goal isn't to train and coach everyone into one presence template, but to help people develop their own credibility, be present rather than mimicking a style that truly isn't theirs. Because if they are doing that, they're not being authentic, right? And it will show and people will feel that.

SPEAKER_00 29:48

Yes. And so what does presence look like for someone who's not in a formal leadership role yet?

SPEAKER_01 29:55

Based on experience, I would say start building relationships. Focus on your leadership skills as an individual contributor. Develop your emotional intelligence competencies, right? How do you show up? How do you uh communicate emotions? Can you identify the emotions of others and still be assertive in your communication, feeling confident that your message lands, right, with others? Um, it's also about the communication approach and active listening. And when I say active listening, I don't mean that you're just hearing the words, right? It's that you are really taking it in and you're not jumping to provide an answer, right? You take the moment to reflect. So start doing that before you provide a response. But also allow yourself to make mistakes and talk about them, right? It's an experience. And when you share from your learnings, people see you as more open and authentic because you end up exuding this feeling that you are curious and you want to learn and you want to help others learn as well.

SPEAKER_00 31:23

Yeah. Dan, this is something I saw all the time in organizations. Presence affects who gets invited into bigger conversations, who gets trusted with more responsibility and those stretch goals, and who is seen as ready for the next level. It's not always fair, but it is real. People are paying attention to how you communicate, how you handle pressure, and whether you bring confidence and steadiness into the room. So, what advice would you give to someone who feels overlooked at work, even though they know they're capable?

SPEAKER_01 31:57

This is one of the more painful workplaces experience because it's often, because it often is not about ability or someone's capability. It's more about visibility. And those two things get conflated constantly. So a few pieces of advice, if I may, and they are roughly in order of what tends to matter most. The first thing is to separate doing good work from making good work known. The second thing is get specific about what overlooked actually means. Audit who actually knows what you are capable of. Ask people directly rather than waiting to be noticed. And I would also say consider whether the environment which you are working in and the culture of that particular organization is the challenge for you, right? Sometimes our personal values don't align with the organization's culture and internal value system. And that's where sometimes people do not view themselves as being successful. But there is always an appropriate place for each and every single individual because we are all we are all unique and talented. So one caution that I do want to call out, and it's worth checking the word overlooked, right? Sometimes we may feel like, oh, I got bypassed again, not again. Like, what's going on? Why isn't someone really noticing me, right? And it's important that overlooked isn't sliding into a self-story that stops someone from doing everything else. Or feeling like the work should be enough that can be comfortable, that it can be a comfortable place to stay because of the alternative, right? The alternative may feel uncomfortable and unfair. So that discomfort is worth naming and not powering through it silently.

SPEAKER_00 34:26

Right, exactly. I know so many listeners may be thinking, this all sounds great, but I'm not naturally extroverted. What would you say to those professionals who are quieter, more reserved, and less naturally comfortable putting themselves forward?

SPEAKER_01 34:43

This is the um, this is really the crux of the equity issue that we touched upon earlier. A lot of being more visible advice is quietly written for extroverts, and it can leave quieter, I shouldn't say for extroverts, for people who have a preference towards um extroversion, right? Um, and it can leave quieter professionals feeling like the answer is to become someone they're not. So here's what actually holds up Visibility does not require volume. The goal isn't to talk more in meetings, rather, it's to make sure that the right information reaches the right people. So quiet professionals often do their best thinking outside of the room. The fix is finding a channel that plays to that instead of forcing real-time verbal performance. The second thing that I would say is depth is a genuine advantage and position it as one as well. Reserved people often listen more carefully, they synthesize better, and they speak less, but with more precision. That's not a consolation prize. I was gonna say consolidation, but consolation prize, right? For not being outgoing. It's a distinct kind of presence that reads as thoughtful and credible once people learn to expect it. The advice isn't overcome your quietness. It's let your quietness work for you instead of against you. I'd also say pick fewer moments, but make them count. And build one or two relationships instead of quote unquote networking, right? We often hear, oh, network, who's your internal network, who's outside of your internal network, get out, meet people. Well, if you have a if you have a preference towards introversion, that can be quite exhausting. So build one or two genuinely authentic relationships that you can leverage in different scenarios. I'd also say prepare in advance rather than relying on real-time spontaneity. And then watch for the story that is quiet, right? So the real risk isn't being reserved or conservative, right? It's letting it's letting the reserve slide into um invisible by default and quietly resenting it. The distinction matters. This isn't about becoming more assertive as a personality change, it's about making a few deliberate and intentional choices so genuine work doesn't go unseen.

SPEAKER_00 37:52

Amazing. And so how can candidates build visibility without trying to become someone else?

SPEAKER_01 38:01

There are so many different ways. Write it down, write a short post-meeting summary, right? Speak once and do it well. Prepare yourself by asking for the agenda in advance so you know some of the topic areas. Use the word I accurately, right? Not boastfully, but plainly. Just I, you know, I believe this. I feel we ought to proceed in this direction, right? Uh let your questions do the work. A sharp, well-placed question can carry as much weight as a long comment. Document outcomes, not just the effort. And this is where many people get stuck. They focus on the amount of time and energy they spent, which is the effort aspect of it, but they don't bring up the actual outcome or result. So focus on the outcomes as well. As mentioned, pick a few relationships, not in an entire uh network. Mentor someone else or teach someone something that they didn't know. People will remember that. And then let your track record accumulate accumulate. Um, you will be building um a path where your name will be remembered.

SPEAKER_00 39:37

I really want listeners to hear this. You do not have to become louder, to become more impactful. Some of the most credible professionals I've worked with were calm, measured, and very deeply thoughtful. Their presence came from preparation, self-awareness, and the ability to make strong points with confidence. So often, presence is less about volume and more about conviction. Dan, what are some simple ways professionals can strengthen their leadership presence starting this week?

SPEAKER_01 40:09

There are quite a few ways. Simply pause before you answer. Another way is to cut the qualifiers. So take notice of how often you say just, or I think maybe, or this might be a silly idea, but try stating the point without the actual hedge. Send a visibility note to someone so that they're remembering you. Ask one question in your next meeting based on what is being shared. Practice a clean disagreement, right? Hold a boundary or push back on something without overexplaining yourself or apologizing three times because you are unable to do something. Match your body to your words. And then listen for one full answer without planning your reply. The other aspect is really to own one outcome plainly. So find a moment to say, I did X instead of saying we did Y, right? So oftentimes, based on different organizations, we may believe that the keyword is we because it's all about collaboration, right? And teamwork. Yes, and there is a time and a place to leverage we as part of the vernacular when you're communicating, but it's also completely acceptable to say, I did this, right? Take ownership for your accomplishments. Close a loop. And another way is to end a meeting on time. How often are we in meetings and they just get extended and extended and extended, right? Uh be that individual that has the agenda and sticks true to the actual time allotment for that. So the point isn't to do all 10 or nine or 10 of these different things. It's really about picking one or two and doing them consistently well. Test it out for a week. If something's not working, try something else or get feedback. And the more you over a period of time demonstrate that consistency, people will take notice.

SPEAKER_00 42:47

Yes, absolutely. And for those that feel they have the skills, but they're not projecting the confidence yet, where do they even begin?

SPEAKER_01 42:56

So I would say my favorite words are practice, practice, and practice, right? So separate the feeling, separate feeling confident from projecting it. The other thing is start with voice and pace, not mindset, right? Oftentimes we hear we need to change our mindset, but in reality, simply start with your voice, your tone of voice, inflection, and how you're pacing your speech. Find the smallest arena where the skill is undeniable, right? It's a strength. Leverage it. Let your competence show through your preparation, not your personality, right? It doesn't have to be about personality. Get one honest data point from someone else. Ask for feedback. I said this. How is this landing? Right? That's gonna let you know how you can then adjust your communication going forward. Practice the behavior. Above all, before the belief catches up with you, that leadership presence is all about being born with it because in reality, it's developed over a longer period of time.

SPEAKER_00 44:15

Absolutely. And one piece I think is so important in this conversation is the connection between presence and energy. When people are burned out, discouraged, or depleted, it can affect how they show up. So how do you stress, how do stress and burnout impact leadership presence?

SPEAKER_01 44:33

So stress and burnout hit leadership presence really hard because presence depends on exactly the internal resources that burnout depletes first. So the regulation, attention, and the emotional range. A few specific ways that it does show up, Joanne, is that the pause disappears. The range collapses to one or two states, meaning a well-regulated leader can move between calm, direct, warm, and being firm, depending on what the moment calls for. But under burnout, that range narrows often to irritability, flatness, or forced positivity. And people around them start adjusting their own behavior to manage the uh the leader's mood, which quietly erodes trust and openness on the team. I'd also say that listening becomes performative, right? And decision fatigue shows up as inconsistency. So when we're tired, burned out leaders often make more erratic calls. They're decisive one day and then avoidant the next. And not from a lack of skill, but because the self-regulation needed for calibrated judgment is running on empty. Teams read this as unpredictability, which undermines the psychological safety presence which is supposed to ultimately create. Recovery time shrinks or simply disappears. Even naturally resilient leaders need some space to reset between stressors. Chronic overload removes that buffer. So small frustrations start leaking into interactions where they don't belong. A sharp tone in an unrelated meeting, impatience with a question that didn't deserve it. So there are some implications that are worth noting from a coaching perspective, right? And that is that presence work that only targets behavior, that is the pacing, the listening, and the composure, will keep failing if the underlying stress load is not addressed. It's like asking someone to project calm while they're running on empty. Sustainable presence requires treating recovery and workload as part of the presence conversation and not separate from it.

SPEAKER_00 47:18

So all of this matters so much, especially for job seekers who may be navigating rejection, uncertainty, and burnout. It is difficult to project confidence when you're emotionally exhausted. And that is why presence is not just about external polish, it's also about internal steadiness. And I think that reframes the conversation in such a helpful way. This is not about acting confident. It's about building the internal and external habits that support confidence. So I'd love to close with a few quick hit questions for our listeners. Are you ready to go, Dan?

SPEAKER_01 47:54

Absolutely. Let's go. Let's do this.

SPEAKER_00 47:56

All right. What is one word you think of when you hear leadership presence?

SPEAKER_01 48:01

Oh, that's an awesome question. Um the one word that comes to mind time and time again is authenticity.

SPEAKER_00 48:10

Okay. What is one mistake people make when trying to appear confident?

SPEAKER_01 48:15

They allow nervousness and feelings of anxiety to take over because they are trying to be, they're trying too hard to impress and to have the impact that they want to.

SPEAKER_00 48:30

What is one habit that instantly improves presence?

SPEAKER_01 48:35

Active listening, hands down.

SPEAKER_00 48:37

Yes, I love that. What is one interview tip you wish every professional knew?

SPEAKER_01 48:43

Okay, I love this. I love this question. Um I would say remember that although an interview is considered formal and is deemed as an evaluation or assessment, approach it as if you were in a conversation with an individual or two. You're simply having a conversation, and when you do that, you'll be more relaxed. It'll allow you to hear, right? And internalize what is being said, and it will allow you to be fully present, showcasing your true authenticity.

SPEAKER_00 49:31

Love it. Last question What is one message you want listeners to remember if they are doubting themselves right now?

SPEAKER_01 49:39

Okay. I need a minute. I need to think about that, went Joey. But I would say, I would say confidence is not a prerequisite for leading well. It's actually a byproduct of showing up consistently, even when you are unsure. You don't need to feel ready to be capable. Most of the leaders you admire felt the same doubt and acted anyway. That's really not the absence of confidence. That's what confidence actually looks like from the inside.

SPEAKER_00 50:17

Dan, this has been such a valuable conversation. What I hope listeners take away today is that leadership presence is not about being perfect, polished, or performative. It's really about being clear and credible, grounded and intentional in how you show up. So from both the hiring side and the coaching side, I can say this with confidence. Your presence shapes how people experience you and it influences trust, opportunity, and the impression you leave behind. And the good news is that presence is something you can build. Thank you so much for joining us today. If this conversation resonated with you, share the episode with someone in your network who is preparing for interviews, stepping into leadership, or ready to strengthen how they show up in their careers. And if you're looking for support in building your confidence, clarifying your value, and showing up more powerfully in your job search or career growth, connect with me. And that is exactly the work I do helping corporate professionals. And one last note, Dan, where can people find you?

SPEAKER_01 51:23

Oh, um, you can find me um at dangrissoni.com.

SPEAKER_00 51:29

Amazing. Thank you so much and see you next time. Thank you so much for listening to Career Ambitions. If this episode gave you a new perspective, a practical takeaway, or even a little spark of confidence you needed, I would love for you to follow the show and leave a review. And if you're an ambitious corporate professional who's ready to stop guessing and start moving with a clear strategy, I would love to invite you to my masterclass. Inside this masterclass, I teach the exact strategies my clients are using to land their dream jobs. You can learn more about the masterclass in the show notes or at joannsparrow.com. See you in the next episode of Career Emissions.