Through Entrepreneurship

030: Navigating the Algorithmic Digital Reality

Through Entrepreneurship

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 47:25

The physical barriers to starting a business have vanished, replaced by a complex, invisible digital maze of algorithmic gatekeepers. This episode of Through Entrepreneurship unpacks our latest research report, exploring how these proprietary systems dictate market access and how founders can build resilient businesses outside the machine's control.


Key Concepts & Discussion Points

  • Historically, human gatekeepers like bank managers and retail buyers controlled market access due to physical limitations.
  • Today's algorithmic gatekeepers differ from human gatekeepers in four profound ways: unprecedented scale, real-time speed, dynamic personalization, and total opacity.
  • Algorithms function primarily to maximize user engagement by utilizing ranking models, recommendation engines, engagement prediction, and personalization filters.
  • The "Aha!" Moment: Digital markets are not pure meritocracies due to "cumulative advantage," where a tiny, sometimes random initial advantage in algorithmic visibility leads to a massive, unbridgeable canyon in revenue, mathematically guaranteeing the rich get richer at lightning speed .
  • Platform dependency is a massive trap amplified by network effects, data advantages, high switching costs, and revenue integration .
  • Future commerce may shift from marketing to human attention toward negotiating directly with personal AI assistants .

Actionable Recommendations

For Policymakers & Government Leaders:

  • Push for mandatory independent audits by vetted academic researchers to look inside the algorithmic black box and ensure market fairness.
  • Develop and support regulatory frameworks, similar to Europe's Digital Services Act, to legally mandate transparency and prevent monopolistic self-preferencing behavior.
  • Require major platforms to share anonymized data with sellers so independent businesses do not have to operate blindly.

For Entrepreneurs & Innovators:

  • Translate your value into the machine's language by optimizing search metadata, timing your launches strategically, and consciously designing for user engagement.
  • Avoid the trap of "algorithm chasing," which leads to aesthetic homogenization and makes your entire business vulnerable to sudden code updates.
  • Build independent distribution "lifeboats," such as direct email newsletters and community membership sites on domains you own, to survive severe platform dependency risks.

For the Ecosystem (Investors, Educators, Community Leaders):

  • Fundamentally update modern business education curricula to make platform literacy and digital distribution strategies foundational elements, rather than electives.
  • Train new founders to read algorithmic patterns, understand cumulative advantage, and intentionally architect their businesses to avoid fatal platform dependencies.
  • Address the severe new digital divide by recognizing that the algorithmic economy heavily favors those with high analytical literacy, dominant languages, and access to fast internet speeds.

The Big Takeaway

The sheer scale of digital platforms offers unparalleled global reach, but achieving long-term entrepreneurial success requires mastering the algorithmic language while fiercely building an independent, human-to-human business infrastructure. Would you like me to summarize any specific case study from this report in more detail?

SPEAKER_00

You know, if we rewind the clock and really look at what it took to build a business in the past, the biggest obstacle was always, well, physical friction. Oh, absolutely. Like a literal heavy wooden door. Because if you had an idea, you couldn't just launch it, right?

SPEAKER_01

Right. You couldn't just put it out there.

SPEAKER_00

No, you had to put on a suit, walk into a physical bank, and actually convince a human loan officer to write you a check.

SPEAKER_01

Which was incredibly difficult.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And then you had to pound the pavement, find a landlord, convince him to rent you a storefront, you had to negotiate with a local newspaper editor just to run like a tiny black and white ad so people even knew you existed.

SPEAKER_01

It was a world entirely defined by physical and geographical limits.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly. But today, I mean, if you're listening to this right now, you could launch a global e-commerce business from your kitchen table before you even finish your morning coffee.

SPEAKER_01

Easily.

SPEAKER_00

You just need a laptop, a Wi-Fi connection, and an idea. The physical doors have been taken completely off the hinges.

SPEAKER_01

They really have. And that physical friction is entirely gone, which, you know, is an incredible leap forward for human potential. But it has been replaced by something far more complex.

SPEAKER_00

And a lot more hidden.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. Honestly, much more difficult to navigate. Because the friction didn't disappear, it just changed states. It went from physical to algorithmic.

SPEAKER_00

And that transformation is exactly why we're doing this. Welcome to the deep dive. We are the team representing through entrepreneurship.

SPEAKER_01

A nonprofit dedicated to illuminating the realities of the modern economy.

SPEAKER_00

Right. And our mission today is simple. We want to bring you, our stakeholders, and our listeners directly into our latest research.

SPEAKER_01

We want to share our deepest learnings with you.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So that together we can truly understand the profound power, the immense impact, and honestly the hidden pitfalls of building a business in the digital era.

SPEAKER_01

So today we are opening up our comprehensive research report. It's titled Algorithmic Gatekeepers.

SPEAKER_00

The new digital arbiters of entrepreneurial success.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. And it is arguably the most critical text we've produced for anyone trying to operate in today's landscape.

SPEAKER_00

It really is.

SPEAKER_01

The core thesis we are presenting here is that understanding these algorithmic systems is no longer just like a neat piece of tech trivia. It is a fundamental survival skill.

SPEAKER_00

Right. Whether you are a founder, an investor, an educator, or just someone trying to get your creative work seen, the ground beneath your feet has fundamentally shifted.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. If you don't understand the code, you just can't navigate the market.

SPEAKER_00

Which brings us to, I think, the core paradox of our time. Never in human history has it been easier to publish a book, code a piece of software, or manufacture a product line.

SPEAKER_01

The barrier to entry is effectively zero.

SPEAKER_00

Zero. But the barrier to getting noticed, the barrier to actually reaching a customer, that is no longer controlled by a bank manager.

SPEAKER_01

No, it's controlled by invisible proprietary shape-shifting code.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, shape-shifting code. So here is our roadmap for this deep dive. We are going to trace the monumental historical shift from human decision makers to digital mazes.

SPEAKER_01

We're going to actually lift the hood and explain in plain English how these recommendation algorithms function.

SPEAKER_00

Because it can get pretty dense, right? Then we'll examine the very real, very dangerous economic realities of becoming completely dependent on a single digital platform.

SPEAKER_01

And finally, we will break down the exact strategies that successful entrepreneurs are using right now to adapt, survive, and build lifeboats outside the machine.

SPEAKER_00

And we're going to ground all of this in the hard economic realities and specific case studies from our research.

SPEAKER_01

Because it doesn't matter if you run a local plumbing service, a massive e-commerce empire, or a digital media brand.

SPEAKER_00

Right. Every single second, these invisible arbiters are making millions of microdecisions that dictate who thrives and who starves.

SPEAKER_01

It's happening constantly.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, so let's unpack the shift from the old world to the new world. Because to really understand the water we're swimming in now, we have to look at the dry land we left behind.

SPEAKER_01

That's a good way to put it. Historically, market access was strictly controlled by human beings. We call it institutional gatekeeping.

SPEAKER_00

Institutional gatekeeping, right. So if you wrote a manuscript, a very small, very insular group of editors in New York decided if your voice deserved to be heard.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. Or if you invented a new kind of kitchen gadget, a single retail buyer for a massive grocery chain decided if you got that coveted eye-level shelf space.

SPEAKER_00

It was a huge bottleneck.

SPEAKER_01

It was highly centralized and it was entirely human. The limitations of that era were purely physical and logistical.

SPEAKER_00

Because a television network only has 24 hours in a day to broadcast. They simply cannot give a show to everyone who wants one.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. A physical bookstore only has a few thousand square feet of shelf space. Because the supply of distribution was inherently scarce, human gatekeepers weren't just powerful.

SPEAKER_00

We were necessary.

SPEAKER_01

You were absolutely necessary. They existed to filter an overwhelming demand from creators down to a manageable supply for consumers. They were the bottleneck of the global economy.

SPEAKER_00

I always visualize the old system like an exclusive nightclub, you know, with a massive intimidating human bouncer at the door.

SPEAKER_01

That's a great analogy.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So you're standing out in the cold with your product or your idea. And if you didn't have the right look, the right industry connections, or the right financial backing.

SPEAKER_01

That bouncer just crossed his arms.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly. Shook his head and said, not tonight. You didn't even get inside the building to show people what you had.

SPEAKER_01

But then the digital revolution happened.

SPEAKER_00

Right. Companies like Google, Amazon, Apple, TikTok, YouTube, they didn't just fire the bouncers.

SPEAKER_01

No, they took a sledgehammer to the front of the building. The doors are completely gone. Everyone is allowed inside the club now.

SPEAKER_00

That is exactly it. The internet completely democratized both production and distribution.

SPEAKER_01

But here's the critical pivot identified in the first chapter of our research. When you let literally everyone into the club, the club becomes overwhelmingly, unmanageably crowded.

SPEAKER_00

It's just packed.

SPEAKER_01

Right. The platforms realize very quickly that if millions of videos are being uploaded every single day.

SPEAKER_00

And millions of new products are being listed on a marketplace every hour.

SPEAKER_01

Human editors couldn't possibly sort through it. A thousand human bouncers couldn't sort through it.

SPEAKER_00

Right. So the doors are wide open, everyone is inside the club. But here's the terrifying catch. What's that? The dance floor is now managed by an invisible shape-shifting maze.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, that's entirely accurate.

SPEAKER_00

You might technically be inside the club, but you're standing in a pitch black corner, shouting into the void, unless the maze shifts its walls to let the crowd actually see you.

SPEAKER_01

And the maze decides who meets who, who sees what, and who makes a sale. And that maze is the modern algorithmic discovery system.

SPEAKER_00

Aaron Powell Okay, so how does this new system actually differ from the old one, mechanically speaking?

SPEAKER_01

Well, our report highlights four massive differences that separate these new algorithmic gatekeepers from the human bouncers of the past. The first one is scale.

SPEAKER_00

Scale. So think about the physical limits we just discussed.

SPEAKER_01

Right. A brilliant human retail buyer might be able to review realistically maybe 50 product pitches a week.

SPEAKER_00

If they're working hard, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But an Amazon or Google ranking algorithm processes billions of search queries and evaluates hundreds of millions of product matches in a fraction of a millisecond. The sheer volume is something the human brain just isn't equipped to fully visualize.

SPEAKER_00

It's operating on a planetary level. It's insane.

SPEAKER_01

Precisely. Which brings us to the second difference, and that's speed.

SPEAKER_00

Right, because human gatekeeping was agonizingly slow.

SPEAKER_01

Very slow. If an editor bought your book, it took a year to see it on a shelf. If a trend started, it took months for retailers to adapt their inventory.

SPEAKER_00

But algorithmic systems, however, update their rankings in real time based on live user behavior.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. If a product suddenly gets a spike and clicks at 2 p.m., its global visibility can increase exponentially by 2.05 p.m. Aaron Ross Powell, Jr.

SPEAKER_00

Which means your entire business reality can change while you are asleep.

SPEAKER_01

Literally overnight.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. You can go to bed with a thriving business and wake up to a ghost town, or vice versa.

SPEAKER_01

That happens more often than people realize, actually, which we'll get to in our case studies.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, so we have scale and speed. What's the third one?

SPEAKER_01

The third major difference is personalization. Think back to the old broadcast model.

SPEAKER_00

Right, everybody watching the same thing.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. If millions of people tuned into a major network at 8 p.m. on a Thursday, every single one of them saw the exact same television show, followed by the exact same commercials.

SPEAKER_00

It was a shared monolithic reality.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. But in the algorithmic model, every single user receives a completely different set of results.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, right. Your search results, your social media feed, your marketplace recommendations, they are entirely unique.

SPEAKER_01

Built dynamically based on your specific behavioral history. The gatekeeper is essentially building a custom maze for every single person on Earth.

SPEAKER_00

Let's pause on that because when you really internalize that, it is wild. We aren't even experiencing the same internet.

SPEAKER_01

Not at all.

SPEAKER_00

Like if you and I sit on the same couch and search for best investment strategies, the platform is going to feed us completely different articles based on what it thinks will keep our specific eyeballs on the screen the longest.

SPEAKER_01

That's exactly how it works.

SPEAKER_00

So we have scale, speed, personalization. What is the fourth difference?

SPEAKER_01

The fourth is opacity. And according to our surveys, this is the single most frustrating element for the entrepreneurs we study.

SPEAKER_00

Opacity. Meaning we just can't see how it works.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. In the old world, if a human editor rejected your manuscript, they might at least send a rejection letter explaining why.

SPEAKER_00

Right. They'd say, uh, the pacing in the second act is too slow, or the market for vampire romance is oversaturated right now.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you got feedback, you knew the rules. But algorithmic ranking logic is highly classified, proprietary corporate intellectual property.

SPEAKER_00

The platforms rarely, if ever, reveal the actual rules of their decision-making engines.

SPEAKER_01

Never. The mechanics of the maze are hidden in a black box.

SPEAKER_00

So if you're an entrepreneur, the doors to the club are open. But the maze, determining whether your business lives or dies, is completely invisible.

SPEAKER_01

It's incredibly daunting.

SPEAKER_00

The only logical next step is that we have to try and map that maze. We have to figure out how these systems actually operate under the hood. What are the rules?

SPEAKER_01

Which brings us perfectly to the mechanics of algorithmic discovery. Let's look at the engine block.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, let's get into it.

SPEAKER_01

To map the maze, we first have to understand the platform's ultimate motivation. They are trying to solve a matching problem at a planetary scale.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, a matching problem. Meaning what exactly?

SPEAKER_01

Their single goal is to match a user with the exact piece of content, product, or service that will keep them engaged on that platform for as long as possible.

SPEAKER_00

Ah, because engagement equals ad revenue or subscription retention.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. To achieve this, the architecture generally relies on four core components ranking models, recommendation engines, engagement prediction systems, and personalization filters.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, I'm gonna break these down so a five-year-old could understand them because these sound like intimidating technical terms, but they represent the actual lifeblood of modern commerce. They absolutely do. If you don't understand these four pillars, you are flying blind. So let's start with ranking models. That seems like the most straightforward. It's basically just keeping score, right?

SPEAKER_01

At its most basic level, yes. A ranking model assigns a mathematical score to a specific item based on a specific query.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, give me an example.

SPEAKER_01

Let's say you go to a digital marketplace and type in a stainless steel garlic press.

SPEAKER_00

Very specific.

SPEAKER_01

Well, the algorithm instantly looks at its inventory of 10,000 different garlic presses. It mathematically scores each one based on how relevant the description is to your search and how well that product has performed in the past.

SPEAKER_00

And then it just sorts them.

SPEAKER_01

Right. It then orders them from the highest score at position number one down to the lowest score at position 10,000.

SPEAKER_00

Makes sense. It's essentially the digital equivalent of organizing a file cabinet by relevance. But a recommendation engine is something entirely different, isn't it? It is. Because it's not waiting for me to search for something.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. A recommendation engine doesn't wait for a query, it actively analyzes user behavior to suggest things you didn't even know you wanted.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, this is the part that always feels a little bit like mind reading.

SPEAKER_01

Well, the primary mechanism here is often something called collaborative filtering.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, stop right there. Collaborative filtering is one of those terms that gets thrown around in tech blogs. But how does a machine actually know what I want if I haven't asked for it?

SPEAKER_01

Aaron Ross Powell, think of it like this the algorithm looks at your entire history of interactions on the platform. Every click, every watch, every purchase.

SPEAKER_00

Everything I've ever done on there.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. It then scans billions of other users and finds, say, a stranger living in Ohio whose behavioral history matches yours 99%.

SPEAKER_00

Aaron Powell Okay, so a data doppelganger.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. You both watch the same documentaries, you both bought the same brand of coffee, you both linger on the same type of articles.

SPEAKER_00

We have identical tastes.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. And then the algorithm looks at the one thing the stranger in Ohio just bought or watched that you haven't seen yet.

SPEAKER_00

And it puts that exact item in my feed.

SPEAKER_01

Precisely. It assumes that because you two are practically statistical twins, you will enjoy whatever they just enjoyed.

SPEAKER_00

So it filters the massive ocean of content by collaborating the data of similar users. It's incredibly predictive.

SPEAKER_01

It's scary accurate.

SPEAKER_00

That is fascinating and slightly creepy, honestly. Yeah. So we have ranking models, scoring relevance, and recommendation engines finding statistical twins. What drives both of those?

SPEAKER_01

Engagement prediction. This is the engine's core processor. The algorithm is constantly placing bets.

SPEAKER_00

Placing bets.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. It is mathematically guessing how likely you are to click a link, to buy a product, to watch a video to the end, or to share a post before it even shows it to you.

SPEAKER_00

I love this concept. So the platform is essentially sitting at a massive poker table, and its chips are our attention.

SPEAKER_01

That's a great way to think about it.

SPEAKER_00

It wants to win the hand by keeping us on the app. But in this poker game, what is the algorithm actually looking at to make those bets? It has to be reading the cards somehow. Our research outlines specific signals, and I think this is where the rubber meets the road for anyone listening who is trying to build an audience or a customer base.

SPEAKER_01

Aaron Powell To use your poker metaphor, the signals are the tells. The algorithm is counting cards based on these signals.

SPEAKER_00

So what are the signals?

SPEAKER_01

Well, the exact weighting, like how much one signal matters compared to another, is a tightly guarded corporate secret.

SPEAKER_00

Aaron Powell Of course it is.

SPEAKER_01

But our research confirms four consistent categories of signals across almost all major platforms. The first and most critical is user interaction.

SPEAKER_00

Aaron Ross Powell User interaction. Right. Meaning what we actually do. Aaron Ross Powell Right.

SPEAKER_01

What is the click-through rate? If the platform shows your product thumbnail to a thousand people, how many actually click it?

SPEAKER_00

Aaron Powell What's the watch time? Are they staying for 10 minutes or are they bouncing after three seconds?

SPEAKER_01

It's pure behavioral feedback.

SPEAKER_00

Trevor Burrus And it also looks at content characteristics, right? The metadata, the keywords, the visual features.

SPEAKER_01

Aaron Powell Yes. It's reading the labels we put on our own work. If you don't label the content correctly, the machine can't categorize it.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. What's the third category?

SPEAKER_01

Historical performance. If an entrepreneur has a track record of high engagement, say their last five products sold out or their last ten articles went viral.

SPEAKER_00

The algorithm gives their new offering an automatic initial boost.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. It trusts them, it assigns them authority.

SPEAKER_00

And finally, it looks at network signals. Who follows who.

SPEAKER_01

Right. If a highly influential user interacts with your business, the algorithm assigns you more weight.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, I want to pull this out of the theoretical and ground it in reality because the research provides some incredible case studies that make this very tangible.

SPEAKER_01

We have some great ones.

SPEAKER_00

Let's look at case study two from the report. This involves a creator making short-form lifestyle videos. Let's say she's restoring vintage espresso machines.

SPEAKER_01

It's a cool niche.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's very specific. She's posting content on a fast-growing social platform, and she's seeing moderate success. You know, a few thousand views here and there, nothing crazy.

SPEAKER_01

But then she posts one specific video where the pacing, the lighting, and the hook are just perfect.

SPEAKER_00

And that single video triggers the engagement prediction model in a way her previous videos hadn't.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. The watch time is through the roof. People aren't just scrolling past, they are watching it loop twice.

SPEAKER_00

They are hitting the share button and sending it to their friends. The click-through rate on the thumbnail is massive.

SPEAKER_01

The algorithm is seeing all those tells we just talked about flashing bright green.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. And the result wasn't just like a 10% bump in views. The machine didn't just show it to a few more people.

SPEAKER_01

No, the algorithm took that signal, realized it had a hyper-engaging piece of content, and shoved the video into the recommendation engine of millions of users.

SPEAKER_00

The collaborative filtering went into overdrive.

SPEAKER_01

It really did.

SPEAKER_00

This creator went from a niche hobbyist to having hundreds of thousands of followers in a matter of weeks. The sheer scale and speed of that algorithmic reward completely transformed her life.

SPEAKER_01

She was getting brand partnerships, sponsorships, and creator fund payouts almost overnight.

SPEAKER_00

What is most vital to understand about that case study is the velocity of the feedback loop.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, absolutely. In the old world, if a human gatekeeper likes your work, it still takes months to scale the distribution.

SPEAKER_00

Right. But when a machine learning model decides your piece of content is a winner, the amplification is instantaneous and exponential. It is like pouring rocket fuel on a spark.

SPEAKER_01

But you know, there is a dangerous flip side to this that entrepreneurs often ignore.

SPEAKER_00

What's that?

SPEAKER_01

These systems are powered by continuous machine learning models. They are not static. They are constantly rewriting their own code based on new data.

SPEAKER_00

Wait, hold on. You're telling me the rules of the game change while you're actively playing it?

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. And here is where it gets truly unsettling. Because these models are so deeply complex, evaluating billions of data points simultaneously, the platforms themselves often do not fully understand why the algorithm makes a specific microdecision.

SPEAKER_00

I have to push back on that. How is that even mathematically possible? If an engineer at a tech giant wrote the code, how can they not know what their own software is doing?

SPEAKER_01

Well, because they didn't write a traditional rule-based program that says, if A, then B. Okay. They built a neural network that learns by observing patterns. The engineer set the ultimate goal, which is maximize engagement, and fed the machine data.

SPEAKER_00

And then the machine just figures it out.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. The machine developed its own complex, multi-layered pathways to achieve that goal. So an engineer couldn't look at the cloud and tell you exactly why that specific espresso machine video went viral on that specific Tuesday to that specific demographic in Ohio.

SPEAKER_00

The model just recognized an invisible pattern in engagement that a human brain can't perceive and react it.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. This adds a profound layer of opacity. It's incredibly frustrating for entrepreneurs trying to reverse engineer their success because the machine's logic is opaque even to its creators.

SPEAKER_00

That is genuinely terrifying. It's one thing if the bouncer at the club is keeping secrets, it's another thing entirely if the bouncer's own boss doesn't know how his brain works. Right. But there are elements we can control, and that brings me to case study three. This one is entirely about translation. We have a mobile app developer.

SPEAKER_01

Let's break that one down.

SPEAKER_00

He spends a year coding a brilliant productivity app. Let's say it's a habit tracker, specifically designed for people with ADHD.

SPEAKER_01

That's a great product.

SPEAKER_00

It really is. He launches it in a major app store and absolute silence. Zero traction. He is standing in the middle of the maze, completely invisible.

SPEAKER_01

So And why was he invisible? Not because the product was bad, but because the algorithm didn't know how to categorize or value it. The machine couldn't read the app.

SPEAKER_00

Right. So what did he do? He didn't go back and rewrite the app's underlying code. He didn't change the product.

SPEAKER_01

No, he changed the translation. He dug into the app store optimization.

SPEAKER_00

Right. He changed the title to include highly searched keywords. He redesigned the visual icon from a generic check mark to something with high contrast colors that popped on a mobile screen.

SPEAKER_01

To increase his clip-through rate.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly. And he ran a targeted campaign to his beta testers to get 55-star reviews on day one.

SPEAKER_01

He fed the machine the exact structured data it needed to calculate relevance and authority.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. Suddenly the algorithm woke up. It recognized the metadata, it saw the positive user interaction signals from the reviews, and boom.

SPEAKER_01

His search rankings skyrocketed from page 50 to page one.

SPEAKER_00

Downloads poured in. The business was saved.

SPEAKER_01

It is a perfect illustration of a core algorithmic reality. Algorithms require specific, structured translations to understand human value.

SPEAKER_00

A human might look at an app's interface and intuitively understand it is useful and well designed.

SPEAKER_01

But an algorithm has no intuition. It needs optimized keywords, a high click-through rate on the icon, and statistical proof of retention to mathematically justify showing it to anyone else.

SPEAKER_00

You have to speak the machine's language. You do? Okay, so let's take a breath and look at where we are. On one hand, we have case study two, the lifestyle creator. Rapid growth, overnight success, rocket fuel.

SPEAKER_01

It sounds like an absolute dream scenario. You hit the algorithmic lottery.

SPEAKER_00

But on the other hand, if you are building an entire business infrastructure, you know, hiring employees, taking on inventory, signing leases.

SPEAKER_01

All on top of a system you can't see, you can't control, and that even its creators don't fully understand.

SPEAKER_00

Aaron Powell That sounds incredibly fragile. Which leads us to imagine. Structural issue our research uncovered. We call it the platform dependency trap.

SPEAKER_01

This is perhaps the most vital economic reality we need our stakeholders listening to grasp today.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, let's really get into this.

SPEAKER_01

Our report defines platform dependency risk as the extreme vulnerability created when a business relies heavily or entirely on a single digital platform for its distribution, audience, or revenue.

SPEAKER_00

It is the modern equivalent of building a beautiful retail store. But the landlord has the right to triple your rent, move your store into a dark alley, or change the locks on the door at midnight.

SPEAKER_01

Without any warning or recourse.

SPEAKER_00

And what makes this so dangerous is that there are massive structural amplifiers making this dependency worse. It's not just a bad landlord, it's a monopoly on attention.

SPEAKER_01

It really is. Let's talk about the first amplifier: network effects.

SPEAKER_00

Network effects.

SPEAKER_01

Network effects occur when a platform becomes exponentially more valuable to a user as more people use it. Think about a social video platform.

SPEAKER_00

If all your friends are on it and all the best creators are on it, you want to be on it too.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. Large platforms attract massive audiences. This gravitational pull inevitably attracts the creators, the brands, and the entrepreneurs who need access to those audiences.

SPEAKER_00

You can't just build your own search engine or your own global video platform in your garage. The audience is already centralized.

SPEAKER_01

So entrepreneurs are forced to follow the audience onto these dominant platforms, accepting whatever rules the platform dictates as the cost of simply doing business.

SPEAKER_00

It's a black hole. You can't escape the gravity. And then there's the second amplifier, the data advantage.

SPEAKER_01

Right. These tech giants have been collecting behavioral data on billions of humans for over a decade.

SPEAKER_00

They know what we want to buy before we even type it into the search bar.

SPEAKER_01

An independent entrepreneur trying to sell products on their own standalone website simply cannot compete with the predictive power of a tech giant's recommendation engine.

SPEAKER_00

You have to use their tools to reach your own customers.

SPEAKER_01

And we must factor in the third amplifier, switching costs. This is where the trap really snaps shut.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, explain this one.

SPEAKER_01

Let's say you spend four agonizing years building an audience of a million loyal followers on one specific social media platform. You learn their algorithm, you played their game, then they push an update, the algorithm changes, and your views drop by 90% overnight.

SPEAKER_00

And you can't just pack up your bags and leave.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. You cannot easily port those million followers to a rival platform. Building an audience from scratch somewhere else is incredibly expensive in terms of time, effort, and lost revenue.

SPEAKER_00

You are effectively locked in. You have to stay and try to figure out the new rules of the maze, even as your business bleeds money.

SPEAKER_01

And then you add in the fourth amplifier, revenue integration, and it gets even tighter.

SPEAKER_00

This is where the platform doesn't just show your content.

SPEAKER_01

You are completely entangled. The platform isn't just your landlord anymore. They are your bank, your marketing agency, and your delivery service.

SPEAKER_00

Which leads directly to a very specific, somewhat brutal economic phenomenon that our research identifies as winner concentration patterns or preferential attachment.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, this is key.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, wait, wait. I need to push back on this for a second. Go ahead. Because if I'm listening to this, a part of my brain is saying, wait a minute, isn't this just a pure meritocracy? A meritocracy. Yeah, if I spend six months engineering a genuinely great physical product, or I spend a week filming and editing an amazing high-quality documentary, people will naturally click on it. Right. They will engage with it because it's objectively good. And then the algorithm acting as a rational machine will see that engagement and show it to more people. Isn't that perfectly fair?

SPEAKER_01

Aaron Powell That is the most common defense of algorithmic systems used by the platforms themselves.

SPEAKER_00

Aaron Powell Isn't that just the free market finally working perfectly at a global scale?

SPEAKER_01

Well, the data forces us to ask an uncomfortable question. Is it truly a meritocracy if the mathematical system actively distorts the visibility of quality?

SPEAKER_00

Aaron Powell Okay, I love where this is going. Break that down for me.

SPEAKER_01

Aaron Powell The research explicitly shows that these systems do not create a pure meritocracy, primarily because of a mathematical concept called cumulative advantage. Cumulative advantage. Let me explain it by comparing the physical world to the digital world. Imagine you walk down the cereal aisle in a physical grocery store. You can stand there and see the top shelf, the middle shelf, and the bottom shelf almost simultaneously. Your eyes can scan 50 different boxes of cereal in two seconds.

SPEAKER_00

Right. The physical space allows for a relatively flat hierarchy of discovery.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00

So my favorite brand is on the bottom shelf. I still see it. I just have to reach down.

SPEAKER_01

But in digital markets, screen real estate is incredibly limited, especially on mobile devices. You only see what is directly in front of your thumb. That makes sense. Studies of digital search behavior show a massive cliff-like drop-off in human attention beyond the first three to five search results. If you aren't in the top three, you essentially don't exist.

SPEAKER_00

Wow. So how does cumulative advantage distort that?

SPEAKER_01

Imagine two entrepreneurs selling nearly identical, high-quality, beautifully crafted leather wallets.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, two wallets.

SPEAKER_01

Entrepreneur A gets a tiny, almost random early advantage. Maybe they launched their wallet on a Tuesday afternoon when a major competitor happened to be out of stock, so they got a few extra organic clicks.

SPEAKER_00

Pure luck of a draw.

SPEAKER_01

Pure luck. But the algorithm registers those few extra clicks. It doesn't know it was luck.

SPEAKER_00

It assumes Entrepreneur A's wallet is mathematically slightly better.

SPEAKER_01

Right. So it moves entrepreneur A from position number three to position number one in the search results.

SPEAKER_00

And because they are in the number one position, they are the first thing every single customer sees. So they get infinitely more clicks simply by virtue of being first.

SPEAKER_01

Precisely. That is cumulative advantage. The algorithm creates an automated feedback loop. Early engagement leads to more visibility.

SPEAKER_00

Which mathematically guarantees more engagement.

SPEAKER_01

Which secures even more visibility. The rich get richer at lightning speed.

SPEAKER_00

And what about the other guy?

SPEAKER_01

Meanwhile, entrepreneur B, who might objectively have the fifth best wallet in the entire world, gets pushed below the scroll line to position number eight. Entrepreneur B might get 1% of the sales of entrepreneur A.

SPEAKER_00

That is staggering. It's not that the fifth best wallet is 99% worse in quality than the first best wallet. No, it's just invisible. Exactly. A tiny fractional, sometimes random difference in algorithmic preference creates a massive, unbridgeable canyon in actual economic revenue.

SPEAKER_01

The winner doesn't just win a little bit, the winner takes almost everything. That completely shatters the illusion of a pure meritocracy.

SPEAKER_00

The algorithm doesn't reward the best product, it rewards the product that best leverages cumulative advantage.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00

Wow. If I'm an entrepreneur listening to this, I'm realizing that my business is terrifyingly fragile. And the research has some sobering case studies on exactly how fragile this makes a company. We do. Let's talk about case study four. This is a story about the rug being pulled out from under a successful team.

SPEAKER_01

This involved a mid-sized digital media publisher. Let's say they ran a highly respected in-depth gardening and horticulture blog. Okay. They employed 20 writers and editors. They had built a massive, thriving business that was entirely reliant on search engine traffic.

SPEAKER_00

So they wrote incredible articles on how to prune tomato plants. People searched for those topics. And the platform's algorithm flawlessly routed millions of readers to their site every month.

SPEAKER_01

They monetized through ads, and everyone was happy.

SPEAKER_00

A perfect symbiosis. They fed the machine content, the machine fed them traffic, until the machine changed its mind.

SPEAKER_01

Correct. Overnight, the platform released a major core update to its search algorithm. They decided to fundamentally rewrite the ranking signals. Why? The platform engineers decided they wanted to heavily prioritize new specific authority signals, maybe requiring specific types of author bios or prioritizing massive legacy news sites over niche blogs. Oh no. Through no fault of their own, without the quality of their journalism degrading by even one percent, the publisher's traffic dropped by 60% in a single week.

SPEAKER_00

I can't even imagine the panic in that office. You check the analytics dashboard on Monday morning, and half your business is just gone.

SPEAKER_01

It was devastating.

SPEAKER_00

And how long did it take to fix?

SPEAKER_01

It took them two incredibly costly years of investing in new editorial experts, overhauling their entire back-end structure, and desperately trying to guess the new rules of the maze just to recover their previous standing.

SPEAKER_00

Two years of lost revenue because an invisible line of code was updated. Yes. But as devastating as case study four is, case study one is the one that really makes my blood run cold because it shows how platforms can weaponize the algorithm to enforce business compliance.

SPEAKER_01

This is a very important one.

SPEAKER_00

Break the electronic seller down for us.

SPEAKER_01

Case study one focuses on an independent electronic seller operating on one of the world's largest online marketplaces. Let's say they were selling high-end HDMI cables and audio gear.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, pretty fan or e-commerce.

SPEAKER_01

For years they thrived. They ran a tight ship, they had their own warehouse, they shipped orders out the same day, they had fantastic customer reviews, and they offered competitive pricing.

SPEAKER_00

So they were doing everything right.

SPEAKER_01

Because of this, they consistently ranked at the very top of the organic search results. They were winning the algorithmic game fair and square based on merit.

SPEAKER_00

Aaron Powell But then the marketplace decided they wanted a bigger piece of the pie. They changed the rules of the maze.

SPEAKER_01

They did. The platform wanted to grow its own proprietary logistics and warehouse fulfillment division. So they quietly modified their ranking algorithm.

SPEAKER_00

Aaron Ross Powell What did they change?

SPEAKER_01

They tweaked a tiny weight in the code so that it explicitly prioritized sellers who are paying to use the platform's own fulfillment services.

SPEAKER_00

Aaron Powell Let me make sure I'm understanding the mechanics of this.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

They didn't ban the independent sellers, right? They didn't send an email saying you must use our warehouse.

SPEAKER_01

Aaron Powell No, no, that would be too obvious and invite antitrust scrutiny. They just tweaked the code.

SPEAKER_00

Aaron Powell And what happened?

SPEAKER_01

Suddenly, if your shipping badge didn't say fulfilled by platform, the algorithm virtually dragged your product from page one of the search results to page 15.

SPEAKER_00

And as we established earlier, in the digital world, page 15 might as well be the dark side of the moon. Your sales go to zero.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00

So the platform basically held the gun to their head and said, Pay us to store and ship your boxes, or we will mathematically erase you from existence.

SPEAKER_01

That is essentially what happened. The seller was completely trapped by dependency. They had no other way to reach their customers.

SPEAKER_00

So what did they do?

SPEAKER_01

To regain their ranking position and save their business from bankruptcy, they were forced to dismantle their own efficient warehouse and adopt the platform's expensive logistics program.

SPEAKER_00

Did their sales come back?

SPEAKER_01

Yes. Their visibility returned because they got the favored shipping badge, so their top-line revenue recovered.

SPEAKER_00

But at what cost?

SPEAKER_01

But their profit margins were absolutely decimated by the massive new service fees they had to pay the platform to store and ship their goods.

SPEAKER_00

So the algorithm wasn't just filtering content anymore, it was being actively used as a lever to extract economic rent from a captive supplier.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00

That is a staggering realization. The platform used the threat of algorithmic invisibility to force a highly efficient business into a less profitable arrangement, just to enrich the platform.

SPEAKER_01

It's a therbering reality.

SPEAKER_00

If that doesn't highlight the profound, almost dictatorial power of these digital arbiters, I don't know what does. And this brings us to a crucial realization for the stakeholders of through entrepreneurship, which is these case studies prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that playing entirely by the platform's rules is a deeply fragile, dangerous strategy.

SPEAKER_01

It is.

SPEAKER_00

If you rely completely on the maze, you are at the absolute mercy of whoever programs the maze. So if we want to fulfill the true impact and potential of modern entrepreneurship, founders have to adapt. They have to secure their own destiny.

SPEAKER_01

They absolutely do.

SPEAKER_00

So how do we beat the machine?

SPEAKER_01

Well, beating the machine might be too combative of a phrase, but surviving it requires a very specific dual approach. Aggressive strategic adaptation within the system paired with conscious diversification outside of it.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, let's start with adaptation. The research outlines several tactical movers entrepreneurs are using right now to play the game better. The first is search optimization, which we discussed with the app developer.

SPEAKER_01

Right. This is about structuring your metadata so the machine can accurately read your value.

SPEAKER_00

It's about speaking the language, and then there is timing optimization. I find this fascinating.

SPEAKER_01

Timing is huge.

SPEAKER_00

It's literally studying your platform's analytics dashboards like a hawk to figure out exactly what minute of the day your specific audience is most active.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. If your audience is young mothers, maybe they are scrolling at 9 p.m. after the kids are asleep.

SPEAKER_00

Right. You schedule your product launch or your video drop for exactly 8 55 p.m. to trigger an immediate concentrated wave of initial engagement.

SPEAKER_01

Because you were trying to manufacture that cumulative advantage spike we talked about earlier.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly. And the third tactic is engagement design. This is where creators and founders reverse engineer their actual product or content specifically to trigger algorithmic rewards.

SPEAKER_01

We see this everywhere. Think about short form video. Why does every creator ask a slightly controversial question at the very end of the video?

SPEAKER_00

Somebody get comments.

SPEAKER_01

Right. Because they know if they can force you to open the comment section to argue, the video continues to loop in the background while you type.

SPEAKER_00

That is so sneaky.

SPEAKER_01

That artificially inflates their watch time metric, which triggers the algorithm to push the video to more people. Or think about e-commerce. Why do some sellers break a single product into multiple variations on a listing?

SPEAKER_00

To artificially inflate the time a user spends clicking around the page.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00

It's hacking human psychology to hack the machine. But the report issues a massive flashing red warning about leaning too hard into this, right? The danger of what they call algorithm chasing.

SPEAKER_01

It is a very real, very dangerous trap.

SPEAKER_00

Why is that?

SPEAKER_01

When millions of brilliant entrepreneurs are all looking at the exact same algorithmic signals and all optimizing for the exact same metrics, it leads to massive systemic homogenization.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. This explains so much about modern culture. If you go on a major video platform right now, every single thumbnail looks exactly the same. They do. It's the YouTube face. The creator has the same hypersaturated bright background, the same exaggerated, wide-eyed facial expression, the same neon text pointing to something off-screen.

SPEAKER_01

It looks absurd to a shen, but it's mathematically perfect for a machine.

SPEAKER_00

It's why every interior design blog suddenly features the exact same minimalist mid-century modern aesthetic. It's the Airbnb aesthetic. The algorithm likes it, so everyone copies it.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. When you optimize purely for the machine, you slowly strip away the unique, idiosyncratic human element that actually builds long-term brand loyalty.

SPEAKER_00

You trade a deep connection with a customer for a cheap click from a user, you become a commodity.

SPEAKER_01

And here is the trap. If you spend three years perfectly optimizing for the YouTube face or the Airbnb aesthetic, and the platform suddenly updates its algorithm tomorrow, say it decides users are fatigued and it now prefers understated documentary-style thumbnails. Your entire library of hyper-optimized content becomes a massive liability. You chase the algorithm right off a cliff.

SPEAKER_00

So if algorithm chasing is a trap that leads to homogenization and eventual irrelevance, what is the antidote? How do you actually build something lasting?

SPEAKER_01

The antidote is diversification. It is the arduous work of building infrastructure outside the maze.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, now before we get to the tactical level of how an entrepreneur does that, the report highlights a critical pivot happening at the macro policy level.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, there are big changes happening globally.

SPEAKER_00

We are seeing immense global tension between platforms wanting to protect their intellectual property, keeping the algorithm a secret black box, and the public's desperate need for basic economic transparency.

SPEAKER_01

Aaron Powell Because if a handful of tech platforms hold the keys to the entire global economy, we kind of need to know they aren't secretly manipulating the locks, right? Like the electronics seller.

SPEAKER_00

Well, we need proof the game isn't rigged.

SPEAKER_01

Precisely. The research points to several proposed regulatory solutions gaining traction. Things like mandatory independent audits, where vetted academic researchers are allowed to look inside the black box to ensure fairness.

SPEAKER_00

That'd be huge.

SPEAKER_01

Proposals requiring platforms to share anonymized data with sellers so they aren't flying blind, and most importantly, enforcing fair ranking rules to prevent the exact self-preferencing monopoly behavior we saw in case study one.

SPEAKER_00

Are we actually seeing any of this happen?

SPEAKER_01

We are already seeing major legislative frameworks, like the Digital Services Act in Europe, attempting to legally mandate some level of transparency into how these algorithmic systems operate and affect markets.

SPEAKER_00

And while we're talking about the macro level, the report touches on a really uncomfortable reality regarding inequality. I think this is vital for through entrepreneurship's overarching mission.

SPEAKER_01

It's a critical component of the research.

SPEAKER_00

These algorithms aren't neutral, benevolent math, are they?

SPEAKER_01

Far from it. Algorithmic reach inherently favors certain demographics. It massively favors dominant languages like English and geographic locations with high user density and fast internet speeds. Right. Furthermore, and perhaps most crucially for our listeners, the modern digital economy heavily favors entrepreneurs with high digital and analytical literacy.

SPEAKER_00

Meaning if you're a brilliant carpenter who makes incredible furniture, but you don't know how to read a data analytics dashboard or conduct an A B test on your meta tags, you are going to lose to a mediocre carpenter who knows how to optimize for search.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. It creates a new severe digital divide. The barrier to entry might be zero, but the barrier to success requires a master's degree in platform literacy.

SPEAKER_00

Which is why education and research distribution, like what we are doing right now, is so critical. It really is. Let's bring this all together and show what winning actually looks like. Let's look at case study five. For me, this is the ultimate story of survival. It's the blueprint for beating the machine. Walk us through it.

SPEAKER_01

We have an independent creator, let's say a writer, who built a massive following, publishing long-form essays on a major social media platform. Okay. They understood the algorithm, they posted at the right time, and they had a great business. But then the inevitable happened.

SPEAKER_00

A massive platform update hit.

SPEAKER_01

Right. The algorithm fundamentally shifted away from text and started aggressively prioritizing short form video. The writer's reach was completely decimated, their engagement dropped off a cliff.

SPEAKER_00

A classic case of platform dependency risk, realizing its absolute worst-case scenario. The landlord changed the locks.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. But here is what separates the survivors from the casualties. This creator didn't just sit there and complain about the algorithm being unfair. Right. And crucially, they didn't panic and try to wildly change their medium to start filming awkward short-form videos to chase the new rules. They knew algorithm chasing was a trap.

SPEAKER_00

So what was the pivot?

SPEAKER_01

They responded by aggressively building independent distribution. They used whatever fraction of attention they still had on the platform and they frantically funneled those users off the platform.

SPEAKER_00

Where did they send them?

SPEAKER_01

They pushed people to sign up for a direct email newsletter, and they launched an independent community membership site on a domain they actually owned.

SPEAKER_00

They stopped building their house on rented land.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. And by doing so, they achieved actual economic stability outside the algorithmic maze. Think about the power of an email address.

SPEAKER_00

Interesting credit.

SPEAKER_01

If a social media platform changes its code tomorrow or goes bankrupt or gets banned by a government, this creator's newsletter still lands directly in their audience's inbox the next morning.

SPEAKER_00

They bypass the bouncer, they map the maze, and then they built a lifeboat.

SPEAKER_01

It's the only way to truly survive.

SPEAKER_00

If I can distill everything we've talked about into a single concept, if we connect this to the bigger picture, it fundamentally changes how we have to think about business education.

SPEAKER_01

It absolutely does.

SPEAKER_00

Historically, if you went to an incubator or a business school, the curriculum was entirely focused on product development, supply chain logistics, finance, and traditional brand marketing.

SPEAKER_01

But today, this research makes it abundantly clear that platform literacy and digital distribution strategy must be the foundational elements of any curriculum.

SPEAKER_00

It cannot be an elective or an afterthought. Founders must be trained to read the algorithmic weather, to understand cumulative advantage, and to consciously architect their business to avoid fatal dependency.

SPEAKER_01

I couldn't agree more. It requires a completely new mental model for the modern founder.

SPEAKER_00

So, as we wrap up this deep dive, what does this all mean for you, the listener? When we distill this massive through entrepreneurship report down to its essence, it means that modern entrepreneurship is the ultimate highwire balancing act.

SPEAKER_01

It really is a balancing act.

SPEAKER_00

On one side, you absolutely must leverage the incredible, unprecedented global reach of these digital platforms. You cannot ignore them. You have to learn the language of the algorithms to get initial visibility.

SPEAKER_01

But at the exact same time, while you are playing their game, you have to be furiously building your lifeboats.

SPEAKER_00

You have to capture emails, build independent websites, and forge direct human to human relationships with your customers. You do this so that when the algorithmic tides inevitably change, and history proves they always. Will, you don't drown.

SPEAKER_01

It is about harnessing the sheer scale of a machine while fiercely, almost aggressively protecting the independence of your business.

SPEAKER_00

The opportunity to reach a global audience has never been greater, but the requirement for strategic resilience has never been higher.

SPEAKER_01

Which circles us back to the core mission of Through Entrepreneurship. Our goal today was to pull back the curtain on this research so you can see the machinery operating behind the screen.

SPEAKER_00

We want you to see that while algorithmic gatekeepers have certainly concentrated attention and created steep, sometimes unfair hierarchies, they have simultaneously created unparalleled opportunities for those willing to develop true platform literacy.

SPEAKER_01

The power of entrepreneurship to change your life and impact the world is immense, provided you know how to navigate the invisible maze.

SPEAKER_00

And as we look to the horizon, I want to leave you with one final deeply provocative thought to mull over, extrapolated from the final chapter of our research regarding artificial intelligence.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, this is a big one.

SPEAKER_00

Throughout this entire hour, we have talked about algorithms acting as the gatekeepers between entrepreneurs and human consumers. The human is still the one scrolling the feed, clicking the mouse, and pulling out their credit card.

SPEAKER_01

But what happens in the very near future, perhaps only a few years from now, when personal AI assistants become the norm?

SPEAKER_00

Oh, this changes everything.

SPEAKER_01

It does. Imagine a world where instead of you searching a crowded marketplace or scrolling a noisy social feed, you simply tell your personal AI, buy me the most durable leather wallet under$50, or find and summarize the best articles on urban gardening.

SPEAKER_00

The AI does the searching, it evaluates the platforms.

SPEAKER_01

In that scenario, the platforms themselves might lose their monopolistic power. Tomorrow's entrepreneurs won't be optimizing a colorful thumbnail to catch a human eye, and they won't be keyword stuffing for a search engine algorithm.

SPEAKER_00

Who will they be marketing to?

SPEAKER_01

They will be actively trying to convince your personal AI agent that their business is mathematically, objectively, the most optimal choice for your life. How will you market to a machine?

SPEAKER_00

How will that fundamentally change the very definition of what it means to be an entrepreneur?

SPEAKER_01

It's a question we'll have to answer soon.

SPEAKER_00

Now that is a paradigm shift to keep you awake at night. We've gone from convincing the human bouncer to navigating the invisible maze to a future where we are negotiating directly with personal machines.

SPEAKER_01

It's a brave new world.

SPEAKER_00

We want to extend a massive thank you to all our stakeholders for joining us on this journey today. Take these insights, apply them to your work, keep building your lifeboats, keep adapting, and we'll see you on the next deep dive.