Staying Faithful Through Seasons!

In this episode of Protect the Altar, we sit down with Pastor Mark Estes to talk about what it truly means to stay faithful through every season—both seen and unseen. Ministry isn’t built on moments of hype, but on a life of consistency, surrender, and deep roots in God’s presence.

We dive into why it’s essential for worship leaders to know the Word of God for themselves—not just lead songs, but lead from a place of truth, conviction, and personal revelation. When seasons shift and emotions fluctuate, it’s the Word that anchors us.

Whether you’re in a season of growth, stretching, or hidden faithfulness, this conversation will challenge and strengthen you to remain grounded and steadfast in your calling.

Listen now and be encouraged to build a life—and ministry—that lasts.

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

If a song leader is more caught up in their rhythm, their beat, their lyrics, their vibe than they are the truth of the word, then there's no life in it. What you say may be good, but what he says is eternal. What you say might lift somebody up, but what he says will transform their life. Come on. Because the word never returns void. And music helps us remember. If you're using the word in your music, then it will help people remember. And that's what will get them through their difficulties.

SPEAKER_03 0:32

Another thing about a root system is oftentimes that it will entangle with the root system of another tree. And when it entangles with the root system of another tree, there are moments where one tree may be going through something and it can suck nourishment from the root of another tree. Or help and strength to help it stand in the middle of a storm. And so that's another thing about us growing together and being rooted in love, as the Apostle Paul says with one another, that our roots will go down deep and we're able to stand because we got each other's back.

SPEAKER_02 1:03

If we are true people of God and we feel our discernment is telling us that somebody is off, then go to the Lord in prayer for that person and start fasting and interceding for that person. Don't you dare talk about that person without first fasting and interceding for them because you have no spiritual authority over them. So why are you talking about them? Don't put their name in your mouth without putting their name in your mouth in a prayer. Tim and I are here with another special guest. My dad, Apostle Mark Estes Sr. How are you doing, Dad? I'm doing well.

SPEAKER_04 1:51

Yeah. I like dad better than apostle. But thank you. I'm doing well.

SPEAKER_02 1:56

I love that. Well thank you for joining us today.

SPEAKER_04 1:59

It's an honor.

SPEAKER_02 2:00

It's an honor for us to have you. You know, my dad has been in ministry for well, literally his whole life because he was also a pastor's kid. And but he actually got ordained 47 years ago.

SPEAKER_04 2:16

And then I know I look young for my and then really really early though. I was licensed at 17. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 2:25

I mean, not to toot his own horn, you know what I mean? And then he started pastoring 44 years ago. So we got a lot of questions here. And today we're going to be talking about faithfulness over hype and building a life that outlasts seasons. Why worship leaders must be rooted in the word and not just a set list. So we're going to be covering all of that today. And I'm so excited because you are known to be a person of the word, a man of the word. You are also known to be faithful to where God's called you and mom and how you guys have been faithful over many, many, many decades. And we've seen ministers and pastors come and we've seen them go. But the ones who truly make so much historical impact and generational impact are the ones who are faithful. Faithful, faithful. So let's talk about that. After 47 years in ministry, what does faithfulness mean to you now that maybe you didn't understand early on when you were 17 years old?

SPEAKER_04 3:32

That's a great question. Actually, I I was um I was reading the book that I think every everyone, every Christian in the world has read besides the Bible, the purpose-driven life today. Wow. And on day 10, yeah. Yeah, I think, but I think that that is something good to um to go back over. You know, Rick Warren really did a great job on that. And on day 10, uh, he talks about surrender. And I think the the whole thing about faithfulness is surrender. You know, actually he said, um we'd rather talk about winning, succeeding, overcoming, conquering than yielding, submitting, obeying, and surrendering. But since we're talking about worship, he says, but surrendering to God is the heart of worship.

SPEAKER_01 4:28

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 4:28

That's so good. You know, so so I think in order to really be faithful, you have to live a surrendered life. And and you know, when when I was young starting out, I I thought I did that, and I and I and I did to that point, but I don't think I was really capable until um you know life began to happen. And then you you find out that surrender is um is something that you have to do weekly, daily, sometimes hourly, sometimes moment by moment.

SPEAKER_02 5:07

True. So when you know, we're thinking about like people early on, or like even people who are so driven, you know, and that's that's interesting that you brought that book up because it's a purpose-driven life, right? And so people could be have goal-driven lives, they can accomplishment-driven lives, they could be success-driven lives, but a purpose-driven life, you know, is surrender. And so in the seasons of life, we can have a lot of like hype seasons where we have those, we call them hype seasons, but they can also be called mountaintop moments or like those like arrival, like I made it, I'm I'm here, you know. But in the hype seasons, they come and go. So as you've seen over 47 years, the hype seasons of ministry, of even like following the Lord, they've come and gone. But what have you noticed has actually lasted?

SPEAKER_04 6:00

Well, hype doesn't last. Um, hype in ministry. Um, if you you know, when I I remember back when we were denominational, and I'm not against denominationism, denominationalism per se. But for me, that was was more of a hype season because it was about position and what border what board can you be on, what position can you hold, what title can you achieve, how can I be recognized by my peers? And if you're not careful, you want recognition from your peers more than you want recognition from God. And so I think that really becomes hype. Um but it it it's not that is not fulfilling. It it leaves you empty, it leaves you seeking, you know. So um keeping yourself grounded uh is is uh the secret, you know.

SPEAKER_02 6:58

That's so good. Is there a difference between a ministry that is fruitful versus one that is just visible? What are the differences you've seen?

SPEAKER_04 7:05

Well, the obvious difference is the fruit. I mean, um let's talk about worship ministry. Right. What's the fruit of the worship ministry? What fruit uh are you are you producing in the congregation? And fruit is more than hype. Hype is emotionalism, and there's nothing wrong with that. God made us emotional, he wants us to experience all the depth of his emotion because he created us in his image and he is emotional. He experiences anger, he experiences love, he experiences passion, he experiences disappointment, he can be grieved. He said that we can grieve Holy Spirit. You know, so so that's not a bad thing. But if all we're doing is stirring up emotions and not causing people to really feel the depth of love, the love of God and the hunger to serve God, to be more like God, then the worship becomes very shallow, becomes very hollow. It can be excellent. I mean, you can have a jam-up band. I mean, you can crank it and and really have all the appearance, but the whole thing with music, no matter what genre of music you listen to, is what does it do to you? What you know, how do you how can you tell if one song or or something is is not good for you? It's by what it makes you want to do. You know, so um there's obvious forms of music that are not healthy because they make you want to kill somebody, make you want to hurt somebody. Yeah, you know, but what does the what does the worship music do? I mean, worship music should stir our heart toward God and it should bear fruit in our lives. Absolutely instead of just instead of just hype and that's really good.

SPEAKER_02 8:57

Okay, so a lot has changed over 47 years. You know, what we you've gone through COVID, but even you just don't know. True? I do not know. Um, so COVID has happened six years ago. Uh a lot culturally shifted there, but even like you know, over the last two decades, a lot has changed in, you know, entering the two the 2000s, you know. So what kept you rooted when things around you were shifting culturally or spiritually?

SPEAKER_04 9:30

You know, I have to go back to that that whole point of surrender. You know, when the shift is taking place, uh you you don't have control. And and that is a uh that is a scary thing when when you're not in control. So when shifts are taking place culturally, when they're taking place governmentally, politically, and spiritually, then you have to go back to your foundation. You know, and and the one thing that I have learned uh over my lifetime is the the more closely that I walk with the Lord, the more I can handle the instability of the world around me. But when I when I'm slack on that, then chaos is overwhelming.

SPEAKER_02 10:25

That is really good. That's really good. Have you noticed that too, Tim?

SPEAKER_03 10:29

Yeah, I mean I think that um like the old song said, just the closer walk with thee, you know. Sing a little bit for us for those who haven't heard it. Come on out. Just a closer walk with thee. But yeah, it's uh it is that, you know. I I I agree, and that's something I've always picked up from you. You know, we can't you can't be a man of God if you're not a man of prayer, you know. Yeah. And it's uh famous saying that you've always said, and and I feel like personally, the more time I spend with God, um, the more you reflect the image of what you were created in. And and it does, it helps you in every area, and that's why that submission is a daily thing. It's starting, I've said it before, but it's starting every morning at the foot of the cross, remembering my need for him um every single day. I need him now, I need him five minutes from now. Yeah, you know, amen. Come on. Because life is life, you know, hard. You need him five minutes from now. You know what I'm saying? Like life be life. You know what I mean? It really does. So it's it is what it is. We just need him. I feel that.

SPEAKER_04 11:31

That's really good. I think one of the things that uh is is a discipline that I've I have um incorporated in the last several months is daily communion. You know, and it it it when you start your day off declaring his death, then it kind of keeps it well, at least for me, it keeps me grounded. It keeps me focused on what's really important. That it it's really not about me at all. It's about him, it's about the cross, it's about what he did for us, you know. And and then living that surrendered life, knowing that Jesus went to the cross for me helps me kind of climb back up on the cross when I want to climb down. That's good.

SPEAKER_02 12:21

That's really good. So was there ever a season in the last 47 years that before you finish, yes.

SPEAKER_03 12:30

Yes I don't know what it's gonna be, but it's a yes.

SPEAKER_02 12:33

Probably was there ever a season where staying faithful felt extraordinarily more difficult than starting something new?

SPEAKER_04 12:42

You know, for me, starting something new is hard. I'm not a starter, I'm I'm a completer. Yeah, yeah. I I married an incredible starter.

SPEAKER_03 12:54

Amen.

SPEAKER_04 12:54

Um, she has uh uh an ability to strategize and to um to begin. My strength is completing more follow-through. Well, she's a great follow-through too. I I tell I tell her she is the embodiment of the fivefold apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor, teacher. And I don't and I I'm teasing, but I'm not teasing because she really is extremely gifted. I am I'm married way up in that regard.

SPEAKER_02 13:22

You picked right.

SPEAKER_04 13:23

I did. Well, God had to do it. It was a moment of weakness for her, but thank you, 19-year-old Pastor Mark. Yeah, an 18-year-old Patricia. But um Wow. Wow. Yeah, what were we talking about? Well, it got lost in love. I got remembered yesterday. That's it.

SPEAKER_02 13:51

Was there ever a season where staying faithful felt harder than just maybe maybe not starting something new, but maybe just walking away? Was it was there ever a season where you felt like this would be easier for me to just give up than continue to be faithful to the assignment that God has called me to?

SPEAKER_04 14:08

That's a great question. Um I think we all kind of got like go through the Job experiences. I was that was where my Bible reading was today, it was these first five chapters of Job. Oh, that's encouraging. And no, it really is a joy. It really is because um because God was bragging on Job. The whole the whole thing takes place because the sons of God and Satan among them came into the presence of of the Father, and God says, Have you considered my servant Job? He says, Well, where'd you come from, Satan? He said, Well, I've been roaming around earth. And he said, Well, have it's in you in your Roman. Did you notice my servant Job, who is faithful, shuns evil, and fears me? And and oh, yeah, of course he fears you. He he's he does all that because you got this hedge around him. Think about that. Isn't that awesome that as a child of God, he can put this hedge around you, you know? And he said, You take the devil said, take the hedge down and see how much he fears you then. And God said, Okay. This is the other thing I like about it. God's always in control. He's he tells the devil, okay, you can do this, but you can't touch him. And so, you know, in a in a moment, I mean, you read that the read that first part of Job, and it's literally one horrible messenger with bad news after literally before the first one gets finished telling him how he lost all his cattle and and possessions. Another one comes in, the camels are stolen, another one comes in, you know, and his and his children got killed in a storm, seven sons, three daughters, all of them wiped out. And what's job's response? The Lord gives, the Lord takes away. Wow. Blessed be the name of the Lord. I brought nothing into this world, I've taken nothing out of this world. You know, and and in none of that did he sin. You know, so sometimes um I'm stubborn by nature. That's a that is a downfall of mine, but and in times like that it becomes a strength because um I feel like we as humans are built to take more. We just have to man up a little bit.

SPEAKER_06 16:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:42

We have to, you know, put our big boy pants on and decide, no, no devil, not today. You know, you're throwing your best at me, but is that all you got?

SPEAKER_02 16:53

And you've actually, you know, you're coming from a place where you've actually been through hell and back in every way, a few times. You know, you've you've been through the betrayals, you've been through the grief, you've been through extraordinary loss and trauma. And to to stay faithful through it all, this is somebody whose words we could take to the bank and actually listen to. And so if he's saying that it's possible for us to double down in our faith in the midst of persecution and trials like Paul, then it is possible. It is possible. Very true. So let's move to on to talking about worship leaders and the necessity of them being rooted in the word, all of us being rooted in the word. Okay. So can you talk to us about why it is dangerous for a worship leader to be more familiar with their songs and their set lists than scripture?

SPEAKER_04 17:42

Because their songs and set lifts don't have life. Life comes from the word. Yeah. John 1, um, John starts that out, and it's one of my favorite passages. But he says, In the beginning was the word, the Logos. And the Word was with God, and the Word was God. In him, the Word, the Logos was life. And that life was the light of man, and the light shined in darkness, and the darkness didn't comprehend it. So, you know, when when God created Adam, um he um he was he was perfect. Eyes, nose, you know, all of his features, arms and legs, but there was no life until God breathed into him. Okay. And when the breath of God came into man, then man became a living being. Now, Paul was talking to Timothy, and he said, All scripture is given by inspiration. That word inspiration is the breath of God. So all scripture, all the word is God breathed. So if a song leader is more caught up in their rhythm, their beat, their lyrics, their vibe, than they are the truth of the word, then there's no life in it.

SPEAKER_01 19:15

That's good.

SPEAKER_04 19:16

Life, life is not there. It's just it's it's making it maybe great music. I mean, it might be jamming, but it will not change anybody. That's good. It's only when the breath of God comes in. And that's why I think one of the things I love about you is your love to sing the word and finding ways to express the inerrant and infallible word of God lyrically, yeah, you know, and get people to engage. If you can get, you know, what you say may be good, but what he says is eternal. What you say might lift somebody up, but what he says will transform their life. And if you can get the transformation of the living word in them, in the music, in the worship, you know, then when they're going through their regular day, and that I think this is why sometimes songs come to our mind, it's not just that they're catchy, it's when the word's there.

SPEAKER_03 20:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:17

Because the word never returns void. And music helps us remember. And if you if you're if you're doing the word, using the word in your music, then it will help people remember. And and that's what will get them through their difficulties and their problems.

SPEAKER_02 20:36

And it's so funny because I feel like that's why there's like this spiritual battle against worship leaders to stay ignorant of the word or stay out of the word.

SPEAKER_04 20:45

Oh, that's dangerous.

SPEAKER_02 20:46

You know, or to even like be shallow with it, or to even think like songwriters, like, well, I just I really want to be encouraging in this moment. And, you know, maybe they just they're not even, it's not in anything, you know, suspicious or bad. It's just maybe uh uh slow neglecting of of prioritizing the word of God in a song and to to remember that the power comes from the eternal word of God.

SPEAKER_04 21:14

Well, there's a there's a passage in First Corinthians where that's it's actually one of the the things I read every day. When I do communion, I read where Paul uh talks about um the Lord's Supper, and and he gives the the um the modus operandi for you know doing communion. And he begins by saying, For I delivered what I received from the Lord. And I think that's something that worship leaders have got to grasp. Yeah, you can't give what you haven't received. Oh, that's good. You know, so if you're not in communion with Holy Spirit, if Holy Spirit is not directing your set list, if he's not directing your Your worship, then you don't have anything good to give. You cannot give what you haven't received. So it goes back down to that personal altar, your place of surrender, you know. And are you getting your strategy from Holy Spirit? Are you getting your strategy from the top 40 Christian songs?

SPEAKER_02 22:21

That's good. You got something to say I can do.

SPEAKER_03 22:23

There's so much to be said in that. Like, I'm first of all, I want to say shameless plug, uh, rewinding back to what you were talking about with her love for the word and how she sings from that place and writes, my favorite song of all time. And not just because I know you and we family like that, but is what the law what the law could never do. If you don't, if you don't know that song and you hear this, you need to go listen to it. It's one of the most theological songs. And I I I think it's it's literally Romans 8, just like song. It's amazing, and um, it's a masterpiece that I believe that will last ages. It just hasn't cost caught on yet. Um, but it will. And the other side of it too is that sound, I think, you know, we were talking about like then what's popular on the charts or whatever. Sound is something that, you know, um God uses sound, but sometimes we can get caught in the sound, and what we find is that in every generation the sound changes.

unknown 23:16

Right.

SPEAKER_03 23:16

Every generation there's a different sound, there's a different feel, there's a different something. But the one thing that remains the same is the word. Yeah, the word remains the same day in, day out, forever. And um, and we've seen songs that were written 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago that were 400 years ago. Yeah, even you know what I mean, that we still sing today. Yeah, and they produce the fruit that you were talking about earlier in worship, and it draws people into the presence of God where they can see Him and then it transforms them and it changes them. And that's the proof that worship leaders should be more concerned about singing the word than just like creating some kind of a catchy sound. I'm all for the catchy sound. Oh, yeah, that's good. God uses it, but the word is like the precursor to it all, it has to be the starting place.

SPEAKER_04 24:06

Yeah, so I I think the the vibe is important. Yeah, I think you have to be culturally relevant, yeah. But how do you insert the inerrant word in cultural relevance? Absolutely. Then it becomes supernatural, then it becomes alive.

SPEAKER_02 24:22

That is so good. And also a lot of times, with even like on a Sunday morning, I know a lot of people are very interested in how do we flow and how you know, we should be, I think as worship leaders, praying over our set lists and even getting scriptures that go with the songs on our set list.

SPEAKER_04 24:40

I don't want to listen to worship that's not been prayed over.

SPEAKER_02 24:42

Yes. We need to be in prayer and praying over our set list, and then the scriptures connected to the songs, like if from that place, as you're in prayer and you're asking the Holy Spirit, when we come together, will you move in such a way that you promise that when we come together that you would move and your glory would be evident in ways that are deeper and richer than when we're just individually praying. And when you partner with um the will of God in that matter, he will move on your Sunday morning set list. And then if you already have the scriptures locked in in your mind and your soul to that song, the scriptures that go with that song, if you if if you do have the opportunity to flow, flowing into that scripture, like singing the word brings and unlocks things as well. So those are practical ways. But I want to know on the daily life, what does it look like to practically be a person of the word as a worship leader? What would you say?

SPEAKER_04 25:42

Well, two things that are obvious. Number one, you need to worship on a daily basis, and you need to worship with the word. Um, what Tim was referring to a minute ago is you can't be a man of God without talking to God. You can't be a man of God without getting to know God, and then you get to know him through his word, and you get to know him relationally through prayer. You know, you you can't be a man of God if you if you don't know scripture, memorizing scripture is so important, you know, and then having a lifestyle of discipline where you fast regularly and and live a disciplined life. So you've you've got to incorporate just practically, you just have to live out your faith. You know, if you if you want to be a worship leader that is a worship leader with the word and the anointing of Holy Spirit, then you've got to get in the presence of God. You've got to get in the book, and and you've got to let the book get in you. When you sit down to write, you're writing the word because the word is in there. You know, and so it's really it's it's like what you put in your computer is what you get out of your computer.

SPEAKER_02 26:49

Exactly. Exactly. How can leaders discern the difference between what's God breathed and then what's just emotionalism or just hype?

SPEAKER_04 27:00

Go back to your relationship with God. You have to know the real. The only way to know the real is to spend time in his presence. And if you are a person of the presence and someone is leading worship that is not in the presence, it will be obvious to you. You know, it's like the the old illustration of uh how they used to train bankers how to recognize counterfeit money. It wasn't by studying the counterfeit, they would put real money, real Benjamins in front of them. And they would study that until they just, you know, they knew what the real looked like.

SPEAKER_05 27:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:39

So that when the counterfeit came, they may not even be able to identify what's wrong with it, but they know instinctively that there's something wrong with it because they know the real so well. So you have to you have to be you have to know God, you have to and you have to walk with Him.

SPEAKER_02 27:53

Yeah. That's good. There's a lot that comes to my mind when you say that because I do see people then casting judgments on different worship expressions or teams or leaders because maybe their discernment is telling them something's off with them. And you know, that concerns me on a judgment level because you know, if we're judging people, the Lord is saying that same measure is going to be used towards us. So if we're feeling that instead of commenting, I would just suggest, I think, for for people who are feeling certain things, go to prayer, go to intercession for that worship leader. You don't need to tell the entire world, my discernment is telling me that it's so much. Exactly. So, what is our motivation? Clickbait. Exactly. And we have an entire, there's like a whole bunch of people who are obsessed with getting attention to I gotta call, I gotta call them out.

SPEAKER_04 28:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:52

Yeah. And it's self-righteousness. And the Pharisees were like that, and Jesus hated it. And you know, he he he hated it. He literally despised that. So if we are true people of God and we feel our desertment is telling us that somebody is off, then go to the Lord and prayer for that person and start fasting and interceding for that person. Don't you dare talk about that person without first fasting and interceding for them because you have no spiritual authority over them. So why are you talking about them? Don't put their name in your mouth without putting their name in your mouth in a prayer and prayer time with the Lord. That's just a whole sidetrack because that just reminded me of something that just lights my fire.

SPEAKER_04 29:32

But anyway, keep that fire burning.

SPEAKER_02 29:34

What private what private disciplines sustained your public ministry over four decades? As we're ending the sec segment, I really want to know how have you sustained this. I got you. Because we want that slow, we want to sustain this too. This generation wants to sustain too.

SPEAKER_04 29:53

All right, let's make it real simple. Um, most worship leaders are probably married, so I'll include I'll include that. Love God. Uh love your wife, love your husband, love people.

SPEAKER_02 30:10

Even when they're annoying.

SPEAKER_04 30:12

It doesn't get complicated, you know. It all falls back on God. My relationship with God is where I rise and fall in ministry. It's where I rise and fall in life, where I rise and fall in business, where I rise and fall in marriage. If I love God, then I'm He enables me to love my wife, He enables you to love your husband. But if you don't love God, if He becomes secondary, then all that other stuff becomes difficult. You cannot do ministry, you cannot do marriage, you cannot do family, you cannot do life without love. Love the Lord with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, with all your strength, and love your neighbor as yourself.

SPEAKER_02 30:48

That's good. That's good. And that's the part that I think this generation we can easily drift, is because we love ourselves a lot. And then, but we think we love the Lord, but it actually may be secondary to how much we love and obsess over ourselves.

SPEAKER_04 31:05

And it's well, that means we become idols over. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 31:09

That's the that's the modern day idolatry. It's not the golden calves, it's not even the nice cars and the nice houses. It can be, it can be materialism, but oftentimes it's individual like self-worship.

SPEAKER_04 31:21

If you ever go to the gym, you'll see an on full display.

SPEAKER_02 31:28

So we're gonna move on to our next segment, which is praise or pass, where we're gonna react to a viral, viral video on the internet. And we're gonna if you would praise or pass it. This is this is the fun part. Here we go.

SPEAKER_00 31:40

It doesn't take anything for you to be into the Bible one month and then into new age principles the next month and then into something of the motivational teaching the third month, and then by the fourth month, we can't even keep up with your motivation anymore, and we've got you on the life 360, but we don't know what the weird part of the map you want to do because you want to fill anything, and the fourth community, and the fourth value is something you can understand, you can't think you will be able to do that. You really think when you found him? You were finished, you were finished when you found him, and you didn't even really find him. He found you, and he found you, and then he cleans you up, and then you and you've got to learn.

SPEAKER_02 32:31

Okay, I think this goes perfectly with our subject of faithfulness and being rooted in the word and then questions. So would you praise or pass that?

SPEAKER_04 32:40

Well, I definitely praise that.

SPEAKER_02 32:42

Elaborate what's your stuff? What's your favorite part?

SPEAKER_04 32:44

Well, the whole thing, you know, people being wishy-washy, going from one thing to the next, uh blown about by every wind of doctrine. What's the what's the new hype that's coming along, you know, and there's no real consistency in their relationship and actually making themselves God, you know, that that's powerful. That's good. That's a good word. Yeah, that's a very good word. I think that boy's from Monk's Corner, isn't he? Yeah, he is. Monk's Corner, South Carolina. Yeah, that's why that thing's so good. Yeah, man. True low country.

SPEAKER_01 33:16

Everything good comes from the low country. That's right. Take that to the bank.

SPEAKER_03 33:20

Yeah, I think it's great. I praise it too. That's that's good stuff. Um, one of the things I feel like guy's been speaking to me heavily about, uh and I've been studying is root systems. And um, you know, what he's talking about is being rooted. And um that's the issue for a lot of folks. And we were talking about with hype earlier. Is hype feels good, but hype doesn't get your roots. And um, you know, your root system is actually a lot more uh actually if we look at it, I'm not trying to be funny here, but like a root system grows down deep, and it's sometimes two to three times bigger than what's actually above the surface. True. Um, and so like there's moments where you hit these things where you're like, man, I don't know. And the scripture's clear, call them to me, and I'll show you the great and unsearchable things that you do not know. God's not afraid of your why, you know, it's an invitation for you to go deeper, and that's exactly uh what what Pastor Steven's talking about in that. And I just I praise that 100%. It's good stuff.

SPEAKER_04 34:17

Yeah, talking about the roots. Um, I remember when Hugo came through and the trees there's some Hugo for those who don't know.

SPEAKER_02 34:25

Hurricane Hugo Hurricane Hugo came in 1980.

SPEAKER_04 34:28

89. September 21st, I believe, 1989. Uh, but there was there were two the effect was different. Um, some trees stood and bent, and then other trees just fell over. And you know, some trees have shallow roots, they s they spread out far instead of go down deep. That's true. Those trees ended up being the ones mostly falling over. The trees that bent, and some of them, you know, like I remember driving from Charleston to um Myrtle Beach uh about three or four months after the storm, and you saw uh the forest was bent over. Some of the trees were bent and broke, and then some were just like bent like toothpicks, you know, yeah, and stayed bent. Um but they had deep roots, you know, and so sometimes I think, you know, like what he's talking about, if your roots go down deep and you experience a storm, it'll have an effect on you, yeah, but you'll still stand. You might be a little bent over, but you're still gonna stand. Yeah, but if your roots don't go deep, then you know you're gonna fall.

SPEAKER_02 35:39

That's good. That's so good.

SPEAKER_03 35:41

I would love to add more to that, but I think we would be here for a while. But it's just roots are also one of those things that, like, you know, there's trees that where a tree normally is, unless there's been a bunch of like renovation or excavation, there's more trees. And another thing about a root system is oftentimes that it will entangle with the root system of another tree. And when it entangles with the root system of another tree, there are moments where one tree may be going through something and it can suck nourishment from the root of another tree or strength and strength to help it stand in the middle of a storm. And so that's another thing about us growing together and being rooted in love, as the apostle Paul says, with one another, that our roots would go down deep and we're able to stand because we got each other's back. We we're we're rooted together in this thing, and you don't go through what you go through alone. And so we need to be a part of a forest. Yes, a hundred percent. You need a community.

SPEAKER_02 36:37

Oh, I mean, that's good work. That's what I'm talking about. Yeah, there are a couple of deep men over here, and I thank you for your insight. I just learned so much about roots and entanglements and nourishment.

SPEAKER_04 36:51

That's good entanglements and they're bad entanglement. Amen to that. Lord help us.

SPEAKER_02 36:55

Oh, thank you, Lord. Okay, now we're gonna move to our next and last segment, which is frequently asked questions. All right, last and final segment is frequently asked questions. Today I want to just ask you, Dad, a couple of closing advice-driven questions today. So, what does a successful worship leader look like in God's eyes?

SPEAKER_04 37:20

Wow, that's that's a great question because you kind of have to have God's eyes to answer that question. So, from my um my perspective, my human frail perspective, it would be um a worship leader looks like one who um has a relationship with him, who is genuine in their walk with him and listens and obeys him.

SPEAKER_02 37:53

That's good. That's really good. All right, last question. What is one practice that you would challenge a worship leader to start this week?

SPEAKER_04 38:02

Connecting with Holy Spirit. I think um now if for those that are watching that are cessationists, you might not get anything out of this, but I really believe you need to pray in the spirit. You need a walk with Jesus and you need an intimacy with Holy Spirit. I would challenge worship leaders. Your spirit if you're spirit-filled, if you're not, you need to be. So start asking him to fill you with Holy Spirit and let him give you your prayer language and then cultivate that. Uh that is a discipline as well that you can cultivate every day. You need to pray in spirit every day. And and then you need to um allow that walk with Jesus to really ignite your leadership, ignite your the choosing of your sets, the when you go to write songs, let Holy Spirit create an atmosphere that is conducive for God. Don't don't worry about are people gonna like it? Is God gonna like it? Is the name of the Lord gonna be exalted? Is is his spirit going to come in and and fill the lyrics and fill the notes with his presence, or is it just gonna be empty and shallow and hollow? You know, if that's the case, you know, just turn on the top 40. But if you want to make a difference in this world, it has to be spirit anointed, spirit-led, and spirit-driven. So pray in the spirit, that would be my advice.

SPEAKER_02 39:33

That's really good. That is really good. And some of the top top 40 is God breathed too.

SPEAKER_04 39:38

Oh, I'm not I'm not hating it. I like it.

SPEAKER_02 39:40

I'm a fan.

SPEAKER_04 39:41

Right. I just want to make sure I just want to throw that in there. No, I agree. I'm not a hater. I'm I want to be on, I'd love to be on the top 40, but I'd have to sing and that ain't gonna happen.

SPEAKER_03 39:50

So got a good voice too. Um what would you say, Tim? I think for me, man, I would say a practice that worship leaders could do, man, that I think sometimes could be easily neglected is fasting. You know, you mentioned it earlier. And it's something that um I've actually picked up from you in our in our conversation and and and teaching and training and pastoral ministry is fasting is not just the thing you do like at the beginning of the year, like it has to be a part of your life. And the reason why is because what you starve grows, what excuse me, what you starve dies, and what you feed grows. Yeah, and fasting is starving your flesh and feeding your spirit. And I think that um, you know, it makes fasting I have found is something that draws me closer to him. You know, the scripture where John's disciples come to Jesus and they ask him, you know, why don't you why don't your disciples fast? He said, Man, does the bride need to fast when the bridegroom's with him? You know, but there'll be a day when I'm not here, and then they'll fast. Yeah, because it brings a closeness to him. And then uh, second of all, it really makes you sensitive to the voice of the Holy Spirit, the leading and the guiding um of what he wants you to do and being directed by him. And so fasting is something that is it's a it's not a secret weapon, but unfortunately for maybe for some people it is. It doesn't need to be a secret, it needs to be very popular. It needs to be a part of a every Christian's normal life and not just regulated to once or twice a year fast. Like go after God, feed your spirit, starve your flesh.

SPEAKER_04 41:24

Yeah, I think that's what Paul meant by Roman in Romans 12, where he said, I I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, present your bodies a living sacrifice, wholly acceptable to the Lord. And don't be conformed to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by renewing your mind. So I agree, fasting is that thing where you're you're killing yourself.

SPEAKER_02 41:47

That's good. That's good. Well, thank you so much for your wisdom and impartation today.

SPEAKER_04 41:52

Absolutely. Thank you for the honor of being here.

SPEAKER_02 41:55

Yes, and we hope you guys have received as much as we have received today, and that this has been a blessing to you. If this has been a blessing to you, please engage with this video. Like, subscribe, comment, tell us your favorite part or something that stood out to you that was helpful, and share this with a worship team. Anyone who needs it, please get the word out, help us, uh, just spread this out organically. And so we hope that this continues to be a blessing. And join us next week for the next episode of Protect the Altar Podcast.