You Might Be Putting Your Hope in the Wrong Thing!

What happens when the thing you’re hoping in can’t actually sustain you?

In this episode of Protect the Altar, Tim Rice & Deborah Hong have an honest conversation about how misplaced hope and misinterpreted truth can quietly rob us of our joy, peace, and confidence in God. Together, they unpack the difference between biblical hope and false expectations, how disappointment can distort our perspective, and why returning to the truth of God’s Word restores lasting joy.

If you’ve been feeling discouraged, disappointed, spiritually exhausted, or stuck in cycles of frustration, this conversation is for you.

Subscribe for more conversations on faith, worship, healing, and protecting what God has entrusted to you.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

We're gonna worship something or someone. Everybody on earth, you were designed to worship. It's like as much as you were designed to breathe, you don't even think about breathing, you just breathe. As effortlessly as that, that is how effortlessly you were designed to worship. You know, people who are like, I'm atheists, I don't worship, they worship themselves. They worship something. So we can either worship our own opinions, we can exalt our opinions above the knowledge of God, we can even worship our own pastors, we can exalt our pastors' opinion above the knowledge of God, we can our workplace, our bosses.

SPEAKER_03 0:35

It's like the thing that I want versus what God wants. The part about that it gets me is that when you want something for yourself so much that you will take the word and and you will paint your situation with the word to make it the will of God, it actually is saying that I have more faith in my ability to create something for me than I have faith in God's plan for my life. It's saying that I think what I'm making is better, and ultimately that is sin.

SPEAKER_02 1:13

Welcome back to another episode of Protect the Altar Podcast. And if you miss our last episode, we were talking about getting our joy back because North Palm Worship is releasing a full-length project called Got My Joy Back coming out May 22nd. So that is very, very soon. And so we're wanting to talk about this month, about the revelation that the Lord has been giving us the last year and a half about the power of and the need of the church getting her joy back and what happens when we do, when we walk in the fruit of the spirit of joy, what our lives could truly look like. And so last episode, we kind of touched on getting our joy back and talking about overcoming shame and overcoming oppression and condemnation, because there is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus. And so we we dealt with even like sin and conviction and how that can lead to um us choosing um shame and how the Lord instructed in the book of Nehemiah, where Nehemiah instructed God's people that the joy of the Lord is their strength and that was the antidote to their shame. So if you haven't listened to that episode, we encourage you to go back, listen to that, because this is going to be a continuation and talking about more things that try to come in and rob us of our joy. But we have to be diligent, we have to guard against it and not be allowing the enemy to take the joy of our salvation, the joy and the fruit of the spirit. And so I'm here with Tim again, and we're gonna have more conversation about this. And a scripture that I would love to start with this morning is this morning. We don't know when you're watching this. It could be the morning, it could be the evening.

SPEAKER_03 3:02

We are filming it this morning.

SPEAKER_02 3:03

We're filming it in the morning, you know. It just felt right. But you know, whatever time of the day that you're listening to this podcast, Proverbs 17, 22 says, A joyful heart is good medicine, but a crushed spirit dries up the bones. That's the drama I love right there. Dries up the bones. It is good medicine to the soul, and it also does transform a lot of environments. And we can choose to walk in that, but the problem is if we're dealing with a crushed heart. So today we we kind of want to talk about like what leads to that crushing and what maybe can prolong that and make it even worse. It says in Proverbs 15, 13, by sorrow of heart the spirit is crushed. And then Proverbs 18, 14 says, a man's spirit will endure sickness, but a crushed spirit who can bear? And so when we're talking about what exactly can cause a crushed spirit. Well, in the Bible, what connects a crushed spirit? It connects it to grief and sorrow, obviously. We talked about shame last week, sin and conviction, oppression, fear, betrayal, prolonged suffering, hopelessness, deferred hope.

SPEAKER_00 4:19

Deferred hope.

SPEAKER_02 4:20

And that's what I want to talk about. I want to talk about deferred hope because hope is the expectation for good. So deferred hope, and and maybe some could say misplaced hope.

SPEAKER_03 4:31

Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 4:32

What what do you have to say about that? When we're talking about deferred hope, what's what's the first thing that comes to your mind? Is there any revelation that the Lord's given you concerning that?

SPEAKER_03 4:40

I think specifically, um, you know, I love our our state model, while I breathe out hope. And um, you know, it it's when hope is not in its proper place in our lives, um, whether it be misplaced or whether there is no hope based on the fact that people have been going through things and it's hard to find something to put your hope in because of the experiences that they've had. Um, what I found is that um you have to make a choice. And it's kind of like what we were talking about a little last week with joy being a choice. I think in those moments too, like you can't always um predict and you can't always control everything that happens, but where you put your hope and your choice and and your choice, what you're choosing to um keep hope alive, um, is based out of truth in the Bible and the fact that um God is good and he is the same yesterday, today, and forever. And so, first and foremost, our the revelation I think is really putting our hope in Christ, you know?

SPEAKER_02 5:48

Right, and that's really good because that reminds me of Mark 10, 18, where Jesus said, He basically told him, Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone. And so we can we always say, like, oh, that's so good. This food is so good, that's so good. And we've used the word so much, and that's okay, but but to remember that true goodness, so the expectation for good really can only be God.

SPEAKER_03 6:20

That's it.

SPEAKER_02 6:21

And so our hope is found in Christ. Our and so if we misplace our hope in our jobs, in our what is it? What what else do we want? Relationships.

SPEAKER_03 6:33

Um, if you misplace your hope, put it in uh possessions and um, like you said, positions with jobs.

SPEAKER_02 6:43

Even the promise of God.

SPEAKER_03 6:44

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:45

Like even the promise of God, if that it's not God Himself, like God alone is good. No, nothing else is genuinely good.

SPEAKER_01 6:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:56

And so I feel like a lot of times we end up causing ourselves more suffering by that misplaced hope. I I feel like in my own life that has caused more suffering or pain or um unmet expectations because I placed my hope in the fulfillment of a promise, or I place my hope in a person, or if they'll give me this opportunity, if if I if I could, you know, get this at a boy or at a girl, whatever it is, I feel like that causes so much hopelessness. Because when circumstantially and positionally it doesn't work out in the time frame that we want it to work out, then that hopelessness arises and then our spirit gets crushed and we walk around so heavy.

SPEAKER_03 7:52

I like what you were saying a second ago. We were just talking about like the promise. It makes me think about this statement I heard years ago. It says, the gift and the giver are good, right? But um the reality is the the gift is only good because it comes from the good giver. It's the nature, it's the fine fibers of who he is. God is good, he only he does good because it's who he is, it's what flows from him. Um, and so you know, but the gift itself could never be better than the giver. Right. And that's why our hope is in him and not the gift or the the fulfillment of a promise. We praise God for the fulfillment of the promise, right? But we're continually going from glory to glory. At one point in time, maybe uh a promise that you you know somebody may have felt is something God says, I'm gonna I'm gonna take you here and I'm gonna do this. Okay, well, when that's done and God wants to graduate you into something else, if your hope is in this thing, you won't even go to the next thing because your hope is not in the giver, it's in the gift, it's in the moment, it's in the thing. And so that can be a dangerous thing. And I think that that kind of ties into so many different areas that we've seen in church, you know. Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 9:06

That's good. And I feel like there's so many people in the Bible who had to kind of walk that out. And we talk about them often because they're, you know, like fathers of the faith, like Abraham. You know, he his biggest desire was that the promise of God over his life, that he would be a father of many nations, would come to pass. Yeah. And of course, in his lifetime, he didn't see that, but he saw, he saw the fulfillment of the promise of Isaac. And it was like he had to walk this journey of faith. And a lot of times it does really come down to our faith. What are we gonna believe? And it comes down to the truth of God's word. And do we actually believe that truth? And do we properly interpret that truth? Or are we misinterpreting and then it's leading to hopelessness because we have our hope in a misinterpreted corrupted truth? And it's not the truth of God's word, it's what we want it to be. You know, and that is kind of, you know, when when I think of somebody, I always think of Jonah because that the truth was that God wanted to ask, you know, give give give the truth of his word to Nineveh, ask them to repent. And if they did, he would forgive them.

SPEAKER_00 10:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:30

And Jonah didn't like that truth. He would have preferred his own interpretation where they all get, you know, fire rain down from heaven and they all die. That that is what Jonah's preference would have been.

SPEAKER_03 10:45

I think about that, and I'm just putting some thoughts together as you're saying this, but it's making me think about misplaced hope being a product of what we actually believe. You know, uh, it's a product of where your faith really is, right? And so, like the thing about misplaced hope is because you're in a place that you put your faith in or that you believed that was what you were supposed to be, and then maybe you don't, you know, see the results or something. And I mean, even that could be a little because there are times where God will call you into a place and the results don't happen immediately either, you know. Right. So I don't I don't want to paint it with like this broad brush like everything is the same thing because it's not, you know, God is in the details, right? But you know, it is true that there are times where we can find ourselves in that place of a crushed spirit because of misplaced hope, because we've put our hope and our faith in the wrong thing. And um you're right about the truth. I think that that's where it it really boils down to is like rightly dividing the word, you know. Rightly, yes. You know, like looking at the word. What does the word actually say? And the crazy part about what you were saying a second ago with the it's like the thing that I want versus what God wants. The part about that it gets me is that when you want something for yourself so much that you will take the word and and you will you will paint your situation with the word to make it the will of God, it actually is saying that I have more faith in my ability to create something for me than I have faith in God's plan for my life. It's saying that I think what I'm making is better, and ultimately that is sin.

SPEAKER_02 12:34

Yeah, it's pride.

SPEAKER_03 12:36

It's it's sin because God creates this plan and it's outlined for us here how to live. And we're saying it's just not good enough. So I'm gonna color outside the lines over here, and I'm gonna make my own design. And ultimately that's saying that he's he's not the grand designer, he's not perfect, he's not good enough. And so that's that's why it's so dangerous.

SPEAKER_02 12:59

Because then we become our own gods, and that that is the that is where exactly the flesh wants us to be. That's where the flesh naturally gets us, is to be our own gods, to be the Lord of our lives, to be in control of our lives. And you know, I love what you always say is we're gonna worship something or someone. Yeah, everybody on earth, you were designed to worship. It's like as much as you were designed to breathe, and as effortlessly as you don't even think about breathing, you just breathe. As effortlessly as that, that is how effortlessly you were designed to worship. And so despite you being aware of it, even if you are like, uh, you know, you know, people who are like, I'm atheists, I don't worship, they worship themselves. They worship something.

SPEAKER_03 13:49

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 13:50

And because we have, we are by design worshipers. So we can either worship our own opinions, we can exalt our opinions above the knowledge of God, we can even worship our own pastors, we can exalt our pastors' opinion above the knowledge of God. We can our workplace, our our bosses.

SPEAKER_03 14:06

Think about the places where people spend the things that are that that God has given to them, right? First, look at where you spend your money, look at where your thought life is most of the time, and then look at uh, you know, what you do or what you're watching or what you're putting before yourself at all times. Um and most of the time you will find like, man, this thing could be competing for for the throne of my heart. And whatever is competing for the throne of your heart, that's what that's what you worship. And that's really and it's not I don't want to make it rocket science, but I also don't want to dumb it down because it is what you said. And the absence of truth, the absence of truth and rightly dividing the word can be so dangerous because if this thing is not there, we put our hope in the wrong place. And this dictates how we worship too. The word teaches us how to worship. Um, and like that's good. If the if the truth is not presented, you will you will worship somebody other than God. It's why you know, Josiah. I was with my kids last night, and we were looking at King Josiah, and we're talking about the generations of Judah that had not even had the word. Josiah became king at eight. At twenty, he starts tearing down all of the the idols in the land and all of the Baal worship and the ashera poles. And then at 26, he's he's rebuilding the temple, and then they find the scroll of the law, the word of God, and he's rocked by it because in that moment the truth of the word has shown to him these are the consequences for all of the idol worship that was there. He grew up in an entire generation where he didn't even have it, but he had some zeal in his heart towards the Lord, and so you know, he decided to seek God even without it. But when the word came in, all of a sudden, he rebuilt the temple, he found out about the Passover because they weren't doing any of that, you know. He and he celebrates the Passover and he starts to take the Word of God and rightly divide it and put it, put his hope in that, and he rebuilds the nation around that.

SPEAKER_02 16:13

Wow, and then it brings the blessing, exactly, and that is that's so encouraging for multiple reasons because number one, that was nearly impossible for someone like a child, you know, and to not even have the proper instructions on how to serve Yahweh. He didn't even have that yet. The Holy Spirit preserved, yeah, and there are people that the Lord has preserved in this hour that you may be feeling like, man, we live in a pagan society, we live in a everything's falling apart. No, no, no. God has preserved a remnant, and it's time for that remnant to arise and to take over and to and to teach and and to take up space and to not apologize for tearing down strongholds and idols and to lead people back to proper worship to the Lord. And I I just I feel like that's so encouraging in that way, but it also is encouraging because when he realized how to properly worship the Lord, he did everything in his power to make that happen.

SPEAKER_00 17:20

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 17:21

Because it mattered to him.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:22

And ultimately we we must humble ourselves. In order to truly walk in joy, we have to humble ourselves to worship the Lord the way he wants to be worshipped. And that means obedience and that means interpreting his word properly. Even Lucifer knows scripture, but it's how Lucifer misinterpreted and manipulated scripture to Jesus that matters. We have to be careful because even the Pharisees knew scripture, but they misinterpreted scripture. So it's how we interpret the truth, it's how we apply the truth. Is it according to the spirit? Is it according to the way the Lord actually with the writers of each of these books and the way the readers would have read it and how they would have received it in cultural context and in that day and age and how that applies to today? Or are we reading into what we want to read into? I pe I hear people all the time like they quote Job, but they're quoting Job's friends who were in error. And so they're quoting Job's friends, and I'm like, y'all, y'all ain't y'all ain't doing what you think you're doing. It's in there, it's in it, isn't it? It's in there, but it's not that actually God rebuked them. Because it's it's a form of godliness. Like it's it's like what we think is good. It's like what we think is right, it's like a humanistic approach to scripture, and we we have to be careful. So we want to understand what is the context of what we're reading, because what you're reading could maybe apply in a totally different way to your life.

SPEAKER_03 18:56

Absolutely. It's so important to lean into hearing the Spirit of God when you're reading the Word, because the Spirit does not contradict the Word of God, it never does, it never will, it can't. Yes, it there, you know, it there's such a unity there, and it and the Holy Spirit is the revealer of truth to us.

SPEAKER_02 19:16

That's good. The revelator.

SPEAKER_03 19:17

You know, it's so important to remember that like it's good for us to go and study to show ourselves approved. It's good for us to understand context and all of that. But at the end of the day, I I heard your dad say this one time, past our pastor. He said this, he and he said, that the gentleman said to him, context is king. And he said, No, sir, Jesus is king, context is king, it's important. You know, it's important. We definitely don't want to pull anything out of context, but right, but Jesus is king, and the spirit of the living God is making the word who is one of the names of Jesus, John chapter one, right? The Logos, uh, come to life in us. He is the revelator, he's the one who reveals all truth to us. And uh those who fear the Lord, man, the secrets of the Lord are with them.

SPEAKER_02 20:07

That's really good.

SPEAKER_03 20:09

Another thing I think about we were mentioning a second ago can be like in relationships, you know. I think um when you when you experience uh one of the ways a crushed spirit spirit can be experienced is when we put our hope in people rather than you know, the Lord. And some some like we we subconsciously or in a sense kind of like in that gray matter of our our mind, we I think we kind of get that, you know. It's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But if you're not careful, you will find yourself doing that.

SPEAKER_01 20:44

Right.

SPEAKER_03 20:44

Even in marriage, I've been married for 13 years, and there's times where I think if we're not careful, we'll find ourselves like you know, trying to make our spouse um like be this thing that we want them to be, you know. Um, and I don't necessarily know if that would necessarily be like hope or whatever, but like you put so much confidence and faith and hope in this situation. And the truth is, um, you know, I wasn't created for my wife, I was created for God, and she wasn't created for me, she was created for God, and God saw fit to put us together because we I needed to help me according to the scripture. That's right, right? And so it's unfair for me to put all of this weight of all my hope on this person because they're going to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_02 21:29

And then they become your God, and you don't even realize it.

SPEAKER_03 21:32

Yeah, you know, and they're not perfect, they fail, and it's okay. We have grace, we have mercy, and that's what that's about. You know, it's building something in us, but people are not perfect, they're not God. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 21:44

And when and when the Lord is cleansing the church and he's bringing things to light, and these ministers and these pastors fall, why are we so shaken?

SPEAKER_00 21:54

Right.

SPEAKER_02 21:55

We should not be that shaken. We pray for them, but our hope wasn't. In them. Our hope is in the Lord. And our faith should not be shaken because someone else's sin was revealed.

SPEAKER_00 22:06

That's it.

SPEAKER_02 22:07

But one thing that when we're talking about assuming the word of God, like we assume certain things because of circumstances. And it reminds me of Ezekiel chapter 11 because those in Jerusalem assumed that they were favored of God because they remained in the city. And the city there was, you know, it was still standing, but it was about to fall. And there were two groups of Israel, those who um were already in exile and those who were still in Jerusalem. And so those in Jerusalem thought, we're the favored ones, you know, the city's still standing. But actually, there was a great reversal about to happen. Those in Jerusalem were coming under judgment, and those in exile are recipients of future restoration. So the exact opposite is what was happening. And so we can make assumptions like, oh, I have everything I could ever dream. I could, but are we truly living according to the word of God? Or is our hope in those things? Is our hope in everything going right? And then all of a sudden we're living not according to how the Lord told us to live. And we're about to come under judgment. Of course, we're not going to be in joy in that moment. But our the their people in Jerusalem had misplaced hope. Their hope was built on their city still standing. And they had pride to think, well, God must be happy with us instead of seeking the truth. So we have to have that truth. And we can't place it in people, we can't place it in things going according to our plans. We have to place it in the Lord and the truth of his word and interpreting it. So tell me, how do we interpret the word truthfully and how do we not misinterpret it?

SPEAKER_03 23:52

One I think is um scripture we can read and there is face value at understanding it. But I think that there we were never intended to live life without the Spirit of God. You know. And even in the Old Testament, before we see it poured out in Acts chapter 2, we see how the Spirit of God came upon people and moved it. And so like the Holy Spirit is having that relationship with Holy Spirit, learning the nudging, the leading, the guiding, the unctions and the function and all of that stuff in our prayer time with the Lord, and then and then studying to show ourselves approved with that, you know. Like this is how we don't just take truth and you know, and then we're just like, well, let's throw this to the wall and see if it sticks. Let's see if this works. Let's see. No, we just do what the word said. Um, and uh a lot of another thing too, I think, could be even um those that you see around you. Like I know we're we're talking about not putting our hope in people, but one of the ways that I have done that is I have found people who have put their hope in the same Lord, and then I'm doing life with these people, and therefore, because I know they fear God and because their hope is in the Lord, when we have these conversations, they're rightfully dividing the word of truth too. And I can lean on counsel there too, you know. The Bible tells us that wisdom is found in a multitude of counsel, right?

SPEAKER_02 25:17

And so if we're the only one who can hear the Lord, that's very alarming.

SPEAKER_03 25:22

Absolutely. Yeah, that should be like a red flag, right?

SPEAKER_02 25:25

That's a huge red flag. And if you don't trust your pastors and your leaders and those around you to help you pray and seek the Lord on your behalf on especially important decisions in life, that's that's really important.

SPEAKER_03 25:40

I I used to think that the only way that God would speak to me is like if I was like in this private little prayer closet by myself, right? And somebody who helped me realize, and I'll say this saying was you. You said to me years ago, uh, because he's the God of everything, he can speak through anything. And then I even a donkey, hallelujah. Amen. And I I remember you know, doing different things. Like one thing I found was like I would go to the portal years ago, and I would connect the chairs together after, and I would pray over the services and stuff like that. And I would find that as I was connecting, God would begin to speak to me about the unity of the saints. And I would find myself in the scriptures digging this thing out, all because I was just in there and using connecting chairs to make a service look decent to bring revelation, and so he loves a good object lesson.

SPEAKER_02 26:39

I love that stuff because that's how that out from the book of Jeremiah. He just loves it. That's it, that's it, and that's so that's amazing. And you know, one way we lose our joy is through disobedience. Yes, you know, we begin to walk in sin, it leads to shame, it leads to doubt, it leads to anxiety instead of the fruit of the spirit. And so this is a major issue, you know, when we're looking at uh Ezekiel chapter 11, just to end on this thought too, is that a lot of their problem was idolatry. And that's what it comes down to. When we're misplacing our hope, it's really idol idol worship. We're we're putting our worship and we're putting our hope into something or someone else. And so their problem was idolatry. Their hearts were divided, they obeyed God when it was convenient, but then they would follow idols when it suited them. So, how does that apply to us today? Do we worship our money? You know, the Lord told us don't neglect gathering together, right? So that's why going to church, going to church, not watching church from the couch, but going to church is so important. And so He He instructs us, He commands us, don't neglect that. Why? Because the enemy is gonna want you to neglect that. That was a there was a reason why that was being taught there. And so then he's saying, Don't neglect that, right? Well, all of a sudden a big job comes up and it's on Sunday morning. What are you gonna do? You're gonna take the job because oh, you're tight on money this month and you need that job? Or do you believe in Jehovah Jirah and you're gonna obey him and that he's gonna he's gonna supply all your needs according to the his the riches of Christ Jesus? And so we have to remember that that is a practical way. We can't just be like, well, Deborah, I just really needed that job. Well, you're showing that you follow the Lord when it's convenient for you, you follow the Lord when it's logical. You don't follow the Lord and lean not on your own understanding. You have to lean on him even when it doesn't make sense. That's what Abraham did. He took Isaac, his promise, up the mountain, even when it didn't make sense. He was like, well, he believed he had faith. Well, God could even just resurrect him. And that was the whole point was that his faith, he trusted in the Lord enough. Yes, and that's when the Lord knew he could trust him. And so, can the Lord even trust us? And we're, if we walk in idolatry and disobedience, we're not gonna have joy. Yeah, we're not gonna have joy. We're gonna be a whole world of a mess.

SPEAKER_00 29:05

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 29:05

Our emotions are gonna be everywhere, all over the place. It's gonna, it's, it's not a good life to halfway live for the Lord. It's a great life when we fully trust him, when we trust his character, when he says, Hey, even if it's an easy sacrifice or even if it's a hard sacrifice, will you still sacrifice it?

SPEAKER_00 29:24

That's it.

SPEAKER_02 29:24

And that is the place where we can come to enjoy and say, you know, Lord, search me and find, is there any wicked way in me and get me back into the joy of my salvation?

SPEAKER_03 29:35

Yeah, man. You know, it's that whole thing of lean not on your understanding. I had a conversation with somebody once that said, you know, this road that they had this prophetic word, and it was so clear, and they're about to go down this road, and then as they started to take steps to go down this this path, it was really bumpy. And because it was just too bumpy, they were like, nah, this can't be God. And I'm like, whoa. Do you read the Bible? Yeah, I'm like, what are you talking about? You know, like let your hope stay in God and not in like your the comfort, you know, or this thing of like myself and and and my own understanding. Well, I I didn't think it would be like that. Okay, cool. You know, there's a lot of people that didn't think things would end the the way that they did, right?

SPEAKER_02 30:19

Yeah, exactly. But the reality read the entire book of Genesis and come back and talk to us.

SPEAKER_03 30:23

Read the Bible.

SPEAKER_02 30:25

Just just Genesis because you're gonna get from Abraham to Joseph, you're you're gonna get a lot. You're gonna get a lot.

SPEAKER_03 30:31

Yeah, it's not in what you can control, it's what you can submit to the Lord.

SPEAKER_02 30:34

Exactly. And a lot of times he's doing a deep work in us. He's there are things that he's he's getting out of us. We're dying to being our own gods. Yeah, he don't need us to rule and reign. He he needs us to surrender and trust him and obey him when it doesn't make sense, because then supernatural things can happen.

SPEAKER_03 30:54

Yeah, and the greatest joy is knowing, and it's what we all want, and it's the promise that is there. Like we want to be in front of the Lord at the end of our life, hearing, well done, good and faithful servant. The greatest joy is having the confidence because my hope is in the right place, that that's where it is for me, you know. At the finish line is that it's well done, my good and faithful servant. There's nothing more joyous than that.

SPEAKER_02 31:21

Exactly. Exactly. So we're gonna continue talking about joy. Next week, we're gonna be talking a little bit about a topic of oppression and religious spirit that can take our joy. So, and we're gonna have a special guest. So make sure you tune into that one. But we hope that this conversation has stirred you and brought forth more revelation and of how to continue continually have joy and not allow misplaced hope or misinterpreted truth, yeah, misrepresented truth, uh, steal our joy. And so we're gonna move into praise or pass where we react to a viral video in the internet and say we whether we will praise or pass it.

SPEAKER_01 32:06

Hallelujah.

SPEAKER_03 32:12

Axel, if you can hear me, Matthew has gotten a cooler on the drone.

SPEAKER_01 32:18

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 32:23

All right, will you praise her past that?

SPEAKER_03 32:27

Maybe a little both if I'm being honest.

SPEAKER_02 32:29

Tell me why. Why would you praise it?

SPEAKER_03 32:31

Well, because you know, sometimes sometimes you know, you gotta remember less is more, you know. Right, right. The reason why I'm gonna pass it though is because my man missed the talk back completely. That thing came through the whole system. So not just Axel, but now everybody knows that my man needed to cool it on the drums.

SPEAKER_02 32:47

Could you imagine? Could you imagine how like the people in the congregation with how distracted they were? They're like locked in, and then all of a sudden, Axel, like it's like that.

SPEAKER_03 32:57

Now you know you got that one saint in the front row was like, my man ain't lying. I've been waiting for somebody to do this, man. He's all over the place.

SPEAKER_02 33:04

Some people might have been like, amen, hallelujah. But that that is so funny. That's literally my worst nightmare is for like a uh MD mic, like a talkback mic to go through like the loud speakers and online for everybody to hear. And so that was that's my question. Is it coming through for only online to hear, or did the people in the house hear that too? Because sometimes it can happen where the sound man, maybe he's trying to communicate to the team and it only it doesn't come through the house, but the people online hear that. There's a way that that can happen. So I don't know if that's what happened, and maybe, but either way, there were more people that heard that than were supposed to have heard that.

SPEAKER_03 33:46

I almost say it was there because when you look at the video, her face, like when he's whenever the sound man said that.

SPEAKER_02 33:51

Yeah, but if it's going through the ear, you know, she's gonna hear it regardless.

SPEAKER_03 33:55

She gotta look down, though. I was like, I don't know if that thing hit the monitor or her.

SPEAKER_02 33:59

That took her out on the Lord's Day. She was so that girl was locked in in worship, and that distracted her so much. But uh, I I understand the situation where you have to communicate with the team and you have to say, like, hey guys, like, especially drums, it's always the drums. Chill out, chill out. But at the same time, let's make sure we have everything configured to where it's only being heard by who needs to hear it and it's not taking people out of worship.

SPEAKER_03 34:29

Yeah, so true. Sometimes, you know, that's what I said earlier. Sometimes less is more, you know. There are moments, and this isn't like I'm not a drummer, so give me some grace. But there are moments where it's like, oh, this will be so cool to do, and it's like, nah, that's not the moment, you know.

SPEAKER_02 34:45

Right. And and that goes for everybody, including vocalists who want to do a run.

SPEAKER_03 34:50

You want to do all that runs, all that hollering and running. Hold on a second. Now the Lord is trying to move, and you the Lord, the Lord trying to get people to look at him, but you like, look at me. You better be careful with that.

SPEAKER_02 35:02

Okay, you just you just kill with that one right there. That that's literally it. The Lord's trying to get people focused on him, and we're like, look at me. And worship leaders, we're supposed to be, we're supposed to be the donkey that Jesus rides in on. You ain't that important. That's that's a little side revelation there. You you the donkey that Jesus rode in on.

SPEAKER_03 35:28

I like that one. I think I'm gonna save that one.

SPEAKER_02 35:31

We trying to put a lipstick on that donkey and be like, look at me. For real though. We're we try to make ourselves like more important than we are. Just get just, you know, we we just we we are the vessel, we we're like, we're laying our our gifts down. We're like, you know, use this, Jesus. Use me like you use that donkey.

SPEAKER_03 35:56

That's it.

SPEAKER_02 35:56

And and he will. And so I just I feel like um, you know, she she held it together mostly. She held it together, but you know, let's make sure everything's configured before we communicate.

SPEAKER_03 36:09

Yeah, and if and and at the very least, whoever heard it, they know that they really care about the sound. So yeah, they care about it.

SPEAKER_02 36:16

So that's and that matters, you know, they're being diligent.

SPEAKER_03 36:20

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 36:21

All right, moving on to frequently asked questions from worship teams. All right, now frequently asked questions, today's frequently asked questions is how to navigate power struggles and power dynamics on worship teams. Because we have artists on the team, we got talented people, we got musicians and you know, who who've been diligent for many, many years. And so, especially worship teams who maybe you have people with different levels of experience and maybe different years of experience. So maybe you have people joining your worship team who have been doing it for 20 years, and then they join a worship team and they're not the worship leader anymore. Yeah, you know, that's a hard transition. So, how to how how do we submit to that leader and not inadvertently, maybe not even we're not even conscientiously meaning to, but we can end up falling into like a power struggle. And how how do we navigate that number one as a leader, but then number two, maybe from the perspective of that person?

SPEAKER_03 37:31

And why don't you take it from a leader and then I'll talk about the perspective?

SPEAKER_02 37:36

Perfect. So from a leader, you want to make everybody on your team feel included. And we know everybody in the team brings different things to the team. And that means different levels of experience and different anointings and giftings. But if if the leader is remaining humble and submitted to the Lord and their leadership, then that is going to be that's going to be demonstrated to the team. And so David in the Bible, I feel like, did that so humbly. He submitted to the Lord and allowed the Lord to handle a lot of friction with Saul and also with other people in the kingdom when there was all of that tearing apart, and he guarded his heart. So, as leaders, we just need to guard our hearts and guard unity in our hearts and not assume the worst in people, but we need to assume the best. And when there are conflicts and situations that need to be dealt with, we don't need to run from them because there's nothing worse than a passive leader. There's nothing worse than a passive leader. You have to be able to put your big boy pants on and deal with things and talk with people. If you're sensing uh pride on the team and power struggles on the team and different conflicts and seeds of division on the team, you got to sit down and you have to be able to call that out and love and humility and say, we don't, we don't do that on our team, you know? And if you can't, you know, submit to the the culture of this leadership and then maybe this isn't for you. But if this is where God's called you, then I just encourage you to be able to trust that who God has in leadership here, you can trust us. Absolutely, you know, and a lot of times it's one through prayer. So I encourage every leader just to start praying for those people who you feel like maybe be are struggling with power, wanting to be in leadership, but maybe there's not the space or there's not the need for that right now. Just pray for them and continually encourage them and and and um make make um space on your heart for them.

SPEAKER_00 39:49

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 39:50

And the Lord, the Lord truly will work that out. But how how would somebody who's coming in and feels like, man, I really I have a a gifting of leadership, I have a gifting to to be able to do this, and maybe I'm serving a leader who maybe they have a different leadership style, maybe they're more passive, or maybe they handle things differently than I would handle them.

SPEAKER_03 40:10

Or it could be like a situation of like, you know, the person who is leading the the leader may not have led as long as the other person has in their past.

SPEAKER_02 40:20

Yeah, I've been leading longer than them.

SPEAKER_03 40:21

Uh-huh. Could be that too.

SPEAKER_02 40:22

But they're in a in they've been placed positionally.

SPEAKER_03 40:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:26

So how how do they navigate that?

SPEAKER_03 40:28

Well, submission is a choice. Um and it will strike up a lot of feelings. Um, but submission is a choice. Um, you cannot have authority unless you are under authority. And um, first and foremost, um on our worship team, you know, what we want to do is we wanna we wanna guard the unity. So we you talked about that from the leader's perspective, and I think from somebody who's coming in, submission is the first thing. It is realizing that um there is a culture, there is, in a sense, a DNA that is already in place, and I am honored that I get to come alongside of that and be a part of that. Um and because of that, I'm going to follow the leader. I'm going to follow the leader, I'm going to submit to the leader. And um sometimes it could be something simple too. Maybe it's a question you might have about something. It's communicating. Just ask the question. Uh ask to the right right person, ask the authority. Um and and then I I think the main thing is to ri remember that it's like it's not like do I get to do all of this or playing the comparison game, well back then I used to this that and the third. And you're you're not you're not who you were. That's really the truth, you know? And you're not where you were. And uh it's not about us, it's about him. And uh submission to uh authority, I think, is the number one thing. And when you do that, you can be trusted with authority. That's what happens. Um, your ability to submit literally puts you in a place where you can be entrusted because it's like this person gets it.

SPEAKER_02 42:11

That's really good. And I'm I'm reminded again of David because even though he was supposed to have the position of king, he wasn't yet crowned king, and yet he still submitted to Saul even when Saul was trying to destroy him. So we're not even talking about submitting to leaders who are trying to destroy you, right? Which is even harder. Yeah, we're talking about being able to submit to people who maybe you just you know the personality differences or leadership style differences. And so we need to be able to take from the example of David and how to humbly so let's not exalt ourselves higher than we should. Absolutely, you know, let's not think of ourselves higher than we ought. You know, we are servants of Christ, and so submit first, and you'll see the Lord exalts the humble and He He lowers the proud, the proud, the prideful. So if we're walking with pride, He's going to humble us. And so it's easier for us just to walk in humility and submission and let the Lord exalt us in due time and pray for that leader. The leader needs prayer, you know?

SPEAKER_00 43:16

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 43:17

And so maybe the Holy Spirit's showing you blind spots. So cover them, pray, pray for them, yeah, be an encouragement to them and um for the glory of God. And so we hope this episode has been a blessing to your life, and we hope to see you next week as we continue talking about things that can rob our joy.