Recognizing the Religious Spirit

In this episode of Protect the Altar, Deborah Hong and Tim Rice sit down with Pastor Mark Estes for an honest conversation about recognizing a religious spirit, the difference between religion and true relationship with God, and how legalism can quietly distort our view of grace, truth, and intimacy with Jesus.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

But here's the thing the religious spirit will constrict the body of Christ from actually invading the spheres of society.

SPEAKER_05 0:06

If you keep the presence of Christ out of government, what's going to happen to government? If you keep the presence of Christ out of business, what's going to happen to business? We are not a holy mountain set apart. We are called to be the ecclesia, the governing body. And the only way you can govern is to be engaged.

SPEAKER_02 0:23

When Jesus says, go therefore and make disciples of all nations, like go. It doesn't mean like go and build your LED wall and have your live stream and have thousands of people watch your live stream. You're not making disciples away. Like we have to actually infiltrate culture. We have to actually go out. We cannot be exclusive. And the religious spirit wants to make you feel exclusive. Like, or you just can't do that. The church can't do that. Who said the church can't do that? Who said the church can't be the best in arts and entertainment? Who said the church can't be the best in education? Who said the church can't be best in legislation and government? Not Jesus. Not Jesus. Not Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

Not my lord.

SPEAKER_02 1:01

Not my lord. Welcome back to another episode of Protect the Altar Podcast, and we have a special guest on today. Tim and I are here with my own father, Mark Estes.

SPEAKER_05 1:22

It's an honor for me.

SPEAKER_02 1:23

It is, isn't it? It's a joy for us. We are so excited that we get to have this conversation together because we've been saving this conversation for your expertise.

SPEAKER_05 1:33

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_02 1:34

So the past two episodes we've been talking about what can rob our joy. And if you haven't checked those out, go check those out because North Tom Worship.

SPEAKER_05 1:42

I watched one this morning.

SPEAKER_02 1:43

Look at you. He's a real one. And so we we want to talk about joy because we've been feeling like the Lord's been putting that on our hearts and to write songs of joy to get the church, you know, our church, our you know, congregation, but also the church at large uh encouraged to pursue and to protect their joy. And so we've been talking about things that can rob our joy, and one of the things that we've been saving, talking about and discussing with you is the religious spirit and how the religious spirit can come and rob our joy. And so I there I have many scriptures, and we know Jesus had a lot of issues with the Pharisees, and we know he always they they they were always trying to constrict the moves of God. And so before you know we really dive into all of these scriptures and all of these things, I would like to know, Dad, you've been in ministry for many decades now, and you in Charleston, that has been a stronghold is like the religious spirit where people maybe care about more about appearances and what's on the outside versus the intention of what God's doing and the move of God. So I would love to hear in your expertise and your experience, what was like your first realization or like revelation about the religious spirit and how how did the Lord reveal that to you?

SPEAKER_05 3:11

Wow, I'd love to tell you I had an epiphany overnight and and it was many, many decades ago. But when you're when you're raised in something, it's it's really difficult to see, I think, clearly, um the reality, you know, what things are. You mentioned um you know being here in Charleston and the religious spirit that's that's strong here back in the um early 1700s before the American Revolution, uh Whitfield, George Whitfield came to Charleston. He came to America and it was a great first great awakening. George Whitfield, Jonathan Edwards, the Wesley brothers. You know, it was an incredible time. But when Whitfield came to Charleston, he wasn't accepted. The rector of uh the leading church preferred ecclesiastical charges against him and put him in jail. So the religious spirit has always uh uh has always been a um attacker, an opponent of revival. You know what happens, I think, um is there's this genuine move of God. There's a genuine fire that burns and people come to the Lord, but then religion moves in but so subtly and so gradually that people begin to worship the move instead of the God of the move. Right. And that I think that's where the traditions get seated in and exactly, you know, and we worship the method rather than the one that uh the one that brought it.

SPEAKER_02 4:51

Yeah, and that's really good. I am just reminded of like, you know, we have all of these traditions within, you know, Christianity and like the moves of God, and they're beautiful and they represent, you know, you know, what God's done historically with the church and the revelation that the Lord gave to certain people at a certain time. And you know, we love tradition.

SPEAKER_04 5:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:14

But it's like when it becomes tradition is not bad. Yeah, it's not bad, it's necessary, it's a part of us remembering what God's done and who he is and the character and his nature that he's revealed. It's just when it becomes all about control and all about worshiping the tradition rather than what if God wants to do something differently? You know, and I'm reminded of um Jesus' strongest rebuke to the Pharisees was in Matthew chapter 23. And there are seven woes that he had against the scribes and the Pharisees. And I just want to quickly name them in Matthew chapter 23, verses three throughout all the way to 33. He says, They preach but do not practice. You shut the kingdom of heaven and people's faces. They tied tiny herbs but neglected justice, mercy, faithfulness. They were clean on the outside, but they were corrupt on the inside. He called them whitewash tombs. He said, You serpents, you brood of vipers. And they elevated tradition above God's word. And I think that's the part right there.

SPEAKER_05 6:18

Well, we've seen a lot of that get exposed lately with all the culture of exposure that we have going on. You know, when you when you confess something but you don't live it, then there's a fundamental problem with you. And and I think we're in this time, and we have been, hopefully we're coming out of it, where Holy Spirit's really exposed a lot of the religious because of the unrepented sins.

SPEAKER_02 6:48

Right. Mark chapter seven, it's quoting, it's going back to that verse in Isaiah where the people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. And then he also says in Mark 7, you leave the commandment of God and hold to the tradition of men. And then in verse 13, he says, making void the word of God by your tradition. So it's like we literally can worship our tradition, we can worship our preferences or even like the rules and regulations that we place in inside of our faith more than we worship God. And like all throughout scripture, we see people having sometimes difficulties when God changes up how he moves. Yeah. Like when Moses, God said, hit the rock, but then the second time he says, speak to the rock, you know, even out of frustration or even out of like being used to God doing something a certain way. And that can literally, even the way the Pharisees like constricted the people, it robbed them, it crushed their spirit, it robbed them of their joy. You know? Yeah. Have you ever felt like that? Like where you were under a religious spirit and it literally robbed you of your joy?

SPEAKER_05 7:54

Well, yeah. Um I was I grew up in a classical Pentecostal denomination. And that denomination was birthed at the turn of the century, not long after Azusa Street. Actually, the denomination itself started before Azusa Street, but then received the baptism of Holy Spirit after Azusa Street. But uh there's a there's a big difference between classical Pentecostal and Charismatic and then the the uh the new wave. Um and and classical Pentecostals did not accept the charismatic movement, and it was such a shame. Um but you I think the longer you're in something, the more authority you think you have over something, more ownership you have of it. And religion tends to put God in a box. And if God if God doesn't move this way, which he did in the past, he moved this way in the past, it's it's legitimate. But if he moves a different way, well, you know, that can't that can't be right. And so a lot of the classical Pentecostals, the mainline Pentecostal denominations, missed the charismatic movement because it was different. Because they spoke differently. I was at a a state convention, thousands of people, and and if I were to call their name, you would know them because they're incredibly well respected uh Bible teachers and authors. This one in particular was speaking all week at this state convention. Um, but there was such opposition because the verbiage, the terminology was different, the dress was different. Um and and it came to a climax at the end of that meeting because he did not dress the way you're supposed to dress in that particular environment and used verbiage referring to Holy Spirit in a in a way that was not accepted. And so, you know, it was just it was ugly.

SPEAKER_02 10:04

It was really sad because of what it limits exactly, and you had experienced religious spirit. We talked about in the church hurt versus discipleship episode where you've seen people who cared more about the outer appearance than what's going on on the inside.

SPEAKER_04 10:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:23

And so tell me more about that, and like when did it click to you like there's a difference between being a part of the kingdom of God and versus operating in a religious spirit?

SPEAKER_00 10:36

Yeah, um I I agree with with what Pastor Mark is saying here is um, you know, it it was something that I wish it would happen overnight because it would have saved me a lot of, you know. Um but I think through time, you know, the pain and the church hurt and all of that stuff, basically based off of the the traditions of a denomination or a specific church, uh the traditions of man uh kind of being put up there with absolute truth, and it's not, and it's great to practice those things, but you can't worship both. There's only there's the true doctrine of the Bible is is what we worship, you know, the God of the Bible, and that's how we worship, rather. And um, you know, for me it was when I began to read the Bible for myself, I found a version of Jesus that I had never heard or seen before. And I found a I found a loving, strong father. Um, I found a compassionate, caring, um, and one who would not cling to tradition wouldn't in the sense of you know, like all of the laws of the Pharisees, the extra stuff that was there. Yeah. But one who would condemn those things because they had become more important than the law of Moses. And um, and then how he is the fulfillment of the law and the way that he fulfilled it. Um, and it just um as I begin to see that it changed, and then coming and being a part of this community and seeing that in leadership where it was not the um the status quo of like denominational traditions and things of that nature, but like being, and I don't want to I don't want to say that in a way where I knock denominations because I think denomination there's good in denomination. Well, absolutely, you know, yeah, um but it is notorious a part of the conversation when you say that, where it becomes a situation where certain denominations cling to a certain set of beliefs and traditions that become um just as big and as important as Jesus. And in their hearts they probably believe that, but they enforce it in a way that becomes a yoke. And and that's good. And so um it's it's just um coming here and experiencing that and having leadership that wasn't a whitewash tomb, people that did practice what they preached, and people that did open up their door, you know, and said, Hey, welcome to my house. And uh the opportunity to see that, what a blessing. And uh that's when it all really changed for me.

SPEAKER_02 13:17

Right, because you saw the difference 100%. And I think that it robs people of the joy because you know, the in it it doesn't even have to be externally, like the religious spirit doesn't even have to have to be coming from somebody putting things on you. It could be, you know, demonic. You could put those things on you. You can go in agreements with um these religious mindsets that are not what Jesus puts on you. And you put on, and it's almost like this heavy yoke, it's almost like this. That's exactly what the enemy wants to put on us. This, like, uh, you know, where Paul is saying, like, cast off those things that and the sin that so easily entangles you, weight, every weight. So that means we can actually carry weight that's not ours to carry. And we could put things on us that is not for us to carry. And then we're walking so heavy and we're walking lacking joy, lacking like exuberance of life. Yeah. And the scripture that the Lord keeps bringing me to is uh the scripture in Romans where Paul is saying, May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace.

SPEAKER_05 14:29

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:30

That God describes Himself because we know scripture is divinely inspired. So as Paul is writing this, this is the Holy Spirit inspiring these words that God is revealing himself as the God of hope. And we talked about hope being the expectation for good. So God is the God of expect the expectation of good. And that expectation of good will fill you with joy and peace.

SPEAKER_00 14:51

Yeah, that's good.

SPEAKER_02 14:52

And so we have so many Christians walking with like a lack of hope and a lack of joy and a lack of peace because of these weights, these religious weights that we put on ourselves that God never put on us. And one thing that I am always like really moved by when I read the gospels and I see how Jesus navigated situations and how Jesus even read the minds of the Pharisees, and how he could read that they were, you know, whether it was they didn't want him to heal on the Sabbath, that was a big tradition that he was not supposed to do, but he did anyway. And it was almost like they couldn't celebrate these people's lifelong suffering being healed.

SPEAKER_05 15:33

Yeah, I and I think you really hit on the the crux of the matter. What how the spirit of religion how is it that you can tell something is right or wrong? What is sin, what's not sin. Right. Well, if if it's if it's sin, it is a perversion. It's against design. Yeah. You know, like you don't have to question the if you apply that to sexual um immorality, if it's not the way God designed it, then it's wrong. That's why homosexuality is wrong, bestiality, pedophilia, all that, because it's not how God designed it. God designed a man and a woman to come together under the uh covenant of marriage and and for that union to be holy, and that union itself to be an act of worship. So if it goes against design, then it's not right. And so you you in religion you take a truth and then you begin to worship that truth over the truth. Like the truth is, I mean, the the word of God says, without holiness, no man will see God. So back in the day, uh holiness was uh measured legitimately a lot externally, especially when when holiness in Pentecostalism was new for this modern age. So they took a truth, an eternal truth. You have to be holy if you're going to see God. And they and then they put man's regulation on that. But there is a truth in the fact that we need to be careful how we dress, how we represent Christ, right? You know, how we act, our verbiage, how we talk, you know, all of that. But the deep seed of holiness is not measured externally, it's my inward walk with God, it's how I fear God, how I want to honor God, how I live for God. So anytime, and you can, I think you can apply this to literally anything, is it according to design? So when we begin to worship the doctrine over, you know, uh Jehovah, over Elohim, we we worship the doctrine more than we worship the the author.

SPEAKER_02 17:54

Right. And we're taking things so you're talking about some of those weights that we can add are the things that humans add, the regulations that humans add, of like what that looks like. It looks like um, I'm gonna put some context to it, examples to it, is like, okay, the holiness movement is absolutely powerful and incredible, and we have to be holy and set apart. And it needs to happen today, yes, but it's an internal truth. Yeah, and that is a huge revelation because we can actually be externally set apart and not actually internally holy.

SPEAKER_05 18:30

You can look it, but not be it. You can look it and not be it.

SPEAKER_02 18:33

And God is looking for people who are actually internally holy, right? And that doesn't mean that you're culturally irrelevant, and that's the difference. It's like we want to have these little secluded cabins where we all, you know, the women wear no makeup and like buns and skirts only and that sort of thing. Those are some of the external regulations that we've heard.

SPEAKER_05 18:54

That was back in the day.

SPEAKER_02 18:55

That's back in the day.

SPEAKER_05 18:56

But it still exists today. It still exists today. It does, but it's not prominent. I would say that. I agree with you.

SPEAKER_02 19:02

Exactly. But that that's just one example of almost like where the Pharisees are talking about, you know, where Jesus is telling the Pharisees that, you know, clean the inside of the cup. Don't worry only about the outside. You need to clean the inside first. Yeah. And so there we're not caring about what actually eternally matters to the Lord. So then we have these things that we think, or even we can start judging others according to a cultural thing that actually doesn't matter to the Lord.

SPEAKER_04 19:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:31

You know, Jesus, he's sitting with sinners, he's sitting with these filthy people. Then the the religious leaders of the day are judging Jesus for sitting with them. It's like, why are you with sinners?

SPEAKER_05 19:42

Well, they were judging Jesus for healing on the Sabbath. Right. I mean, not celebrating the fact that this blind man received his side or this lame man was able to walk, but it happened on the Sabbath because this is a great example. The word of God said, honor the Sabbath, keep it holy. So they put that above celebrating the miracle that God healed this man.

SPEAKER_02 20:12

And it was their misinterpretation of what keeping the Sabbath holy meant.

SPEAKER_05 20:16

You know, it goes back to what you said earlier about our heart.

unknown 20:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 20:19

You know, it's what you have in your heart.

SPEAKER_02 20:21

And that's concerning because we can miss moves of God. We can miss the Lord Himself, we can miss what He's doing. But then we can also lose our joy because we have all of this heaviness and all of these weights that's so easily the sin that you know easily entangles us. And you know, I just I think it's so sad though, the religious spirit, because they'll condemn the religious spirit when you're operating in it or you're operating under it, you condemn others while being in sin yourself. John 8 talks about that. The woman caught in adultery, Jesus exposes their hypocrisy. And the way he does it, he says, is let him who's without sin be the first to throw the stone. Because they were so quick to obey the law when it says stone. Yeah. But it's like, wait, have you fully been perfect? Or do you should you be stoned too?

SPEAKER_05 21:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:13

You know, and then they couldn't. Everybody dropped their stone. We know that famous story.

SPEAKER_05 21:17

Yeah, and that's why Jesus said, if you look at a woman to lust after, you've already committed adultery in your heart. It's it's it goes back to you insults.

SPEAKER_02 21:25

It's the heart. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:27

Get your heart. I like the thing you were talking about saying ago where Jesus in Matthew 23 is talking about the cup, right? He tells you first clean the inside, that the outside may also be clean. Yeah. Because it's the reality, is like the difference is transformation versus behavior modification.

SPEAKER_05 21:45

Right. There you go.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

You know, and so like it's like I want to look like something is my behavior's modified because I want to look like something. Right. But if you do the inward cleaning, right, where you have that true relationship with God and you're forming your character. character and you're a man of or woman of prayer and and the Bible and and submission you know to the word of God and and its will then man it's like there's something going on there's a there's the process of holiness taking place there and it comes out as a natural byproduct you know well you know that's what uh in Isaiah Isaiah had this encounter with God where he saw the Lord high and lifted up and and he saw the majesty the glory of the Lord and he cries out Woe is me I am undone I'm a man of unclean lips I dwell among a people of unclean lips and and and God literally sent an angel to take the coal from the altar and to touch his lips.

SPEAKER_05 22:42

You know this is the thing about holiness it's not man made it's God imparted. Yes you know his he imparts his righteousness to us. Thank you Lord you can't earn holiness you can't you know our righteousness is filthy rags yes there's nothing we can do to earn it it's the Lord here's the deal God made him who knew no sin to be sin for us that in turn we could be the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus on my own I'm not but when I am in him right I am righteous. Exactly he became sin think about that on the cross of Calvary Jesus took all our junk all of our iniquity all of our sin all of our transgressions all of our evil thoughts all of our corrupt communication all of our sexual immorality all of our perversions everything he took all he became he didn't just take it he became it and in turn we through him become righteous.

SPEAKER_02 23:46

Right and that's so that should be so filled with joy when we hear the good news because that is the good news well what is that you wrote a song what the law could never do? Hallelujah.

SPEAKER_05 23:59

Where'd that come from Romans chapter eight and how does Romans chapter eight verse one start for there is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus hallelujah. And then you heard it here folks what does verse two say for the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set us free from the law of sin and death that's good. What the law could never do hallelujah hallelujah if you haven't listened to that song you need to this is a shameless plug but I'm telling you some great theology is in that song songs ever written okay downloaded hallelujah we're just we're just gonna we're in it we're in Christ Jesus that's right amen and I I want to say though because this this topic is really important to me because I feel like for so many years I took on some weights of a religious spirit where I constricted myself of what I could do in Christ and what God had called me to do and oh I you know only so far. But here's the thing the religious spirit will constrict the body of Christ from actually invading the spheres of society oh absolutely if we allow the religious spirit the religious spirit will keep us inside the four walls because nothing happens to society if we stay within the four walls keep the if you keep the presence of Christ out of government what's going to happen to government if you keep the presence of Christ out of business what's going to happen to business we are not a holy mountain set apart we're we are called to be the ecclesia the governing body exactly and the only way you can govern is to be engaged.

SPEAKER_02 25:56

Exactly and when Jesus says go therefore and make disciples of all nations like go it doesn't mean like go and build your LED wall and have your live stream and have thousands of people watch your live stream you're not making disciples away like we have to actually infiltrate culture we have to actually go out we cannot be exclusive and the religious spirit wants to make you feel exclusive like or you you just can't do that. The church can't do that who said the church can't do that who said the church can't be the best in arts and entertainment who said the church can't be the best in education who said the church can't be best in legislation not in government not Jesus not Jesus not my Lord not my Lord and so we have to get it together stop allowing the religious spirit to stop us from doing and being who God has created us to be that's because we've interpreted that scripture that you quoted a moment ago where Jesus said go and make disciples of all nations as go and make disciples of individuals and the individual discipleship is important.

SPEAKER_05 26:59

Yes but you can't how do you make a disciple of a nation you influence culture you have but you have to influence the king as well when God called Paul he called him to to the Jews to the gentiles and to kings that was part of his calling he was called to government now his calling to government led him to be accused imprisoned and eventually martyred but he had many disciples in Caesar's household he took the gospel to governors he influenced the world right and still his words today that were inspired of the Holy Spirit filled with the spirit are still influencing absolutely today.

SPEAKER_02 27:47

Yeah but how many people like throughout history like God has anointed people in certain days and and times whether it was in the Renaissance or whether it was even the the building of the temple whether it is you know even um you know our country you know we're coming up in 250 years and how that even happened and the miraculous things that happen had to happen God's divine intervention on certain battles and certain legislation legislations and just different things that happened and it's just like the Lord will anoint things like it to for his purposes and for his glory and who are we to constrict him Esther was called in the palace do you know how uncomfortable Esther was I I truly do not think Esther saw herself as a queen I think she struggled because when you see when you see the fear that she had and Mordecai had to really coach her and like listen if you don't do this God will raise up somebody else but your family will not be spared but look at Esther's process why was she there? She was there because I had had not valued her position and she dishonored the king you dishonor the king you lose your position then Esther along with all of the other uh beautiful young ladies that were being considered had to go through six months of skin treatment perfumes and we like oils and lotions well we we like that yeah but but there's something about us we have to go through a treatment of Holy Spirit where we look and we smell we have the aroma of heaven about us exactly you know and let me tell heaven is not boring not my lord for real come on he is not boring yeah and I feel like for so long Christians think that they're only holy that they're only close to Christ if they are in a deep despair and suffering and they have all this that is not true because even in suffering we should be filled with joy like we should be so filled with exuberant life.

SPEAKER_05 29:45

That's where it gets real yeah that's where it gets real and and I think that's you know you we go through things in life where you know the word says uh it was Peter that talks about the trial of our faith being more precious than that of gold that's refined by the fire. There's some things that that really shake you yes for sure um like when when uh Stephen was killed right just you know just a little trauma here and there but but and we all walk through something with that it affected me one way it affected you differently it affected your mom differently and it affected Anna even though she was three four years old when it happened right you know it affected all of us but it's going through that you know I look back at at the work of holiness that God did in me through that right I don't know that it could have happened another way I wouldn't ever I didn't want it to happen would never want anyone to have to experience that. Right but the Lord used it for good and that that what worked in me to make me who I am.

SPEAKER_02 30:52

Exactly you know and it was actually dealing with grief that the Lord gave me this revelation of joy and it was it was like we there we have access in his presence yeah yeah and the church is not accessing the joy of our salvation the way that we honestly should. And that doesn't mean we're not gonna have grief we're not gonna have valleys we're not gonna of course we're gonna have those things but we should not allow the spirit of religion to constrict us and stop us from really going deep in the fruit of the spirit of joy and being able to walk in that when it doesn't make sense when we lost everything we can still say it is well with my soul when it doesn't make sense Job said though he slay me yet I will serve him.

SPEAKER_05 31:34

Exactly though the skin worms devour my flesh yet in my flesh I will see God.

SPEAKER_02 31:41

Exactly exactly so there's access there's access for no matter what like and that is the joy that's the joy of our salvation is that it's not contingent on circumstances. So like even in the storms even in the stillness we still have the same God and that is what gives us hope and joy and so I really hope that everybody has been encouraged because I feel like the spirit of religion will not have a stronghold over your life anymore that you can walk in the fullness of the joy that God has given you and you can be who God said you can be and you can do what God said you can do and nothing will stop you. But now we're gonna move into our praise or pass where we're gonna react to a viral video on the internet and we're gonna see whether he will praise or pass it.

SPEAKER_03 32:38

Here again that's fine so he cut the tracks a few moments later moments later wow wow okay um I'm like completely lost okay okay okay okay okay we could invite him into our world yes I don't that's that's like form this happens okay so there's a lot going on right there okay this this is what I didn't come up that way it's all right how'd you come up give us a little taste it was easy simple you pulled out you pulled out the the book you said turn to page 57 him missing amazing grace or 92 page 92 just a little talk with Jesus oh give me a little that one how that one got that one give me a little wig on there come on just a little talk with Jesus give me a little bit what is that come on don't be boring I once was lost in sin and Jesus took me and then a little light from heaven filled my soul I think you got me from there on bathed my heart in love and wrote my name above and just a little talk with Jesus made me whole now let us have a little talk with Jesus let us tell them all about our truth okay we need to bring it back bring it back okay we may need to edit that out absolutely not that's saying in absolutely not help us and that might be the clip that we share yeah well yeah that's a pass that's a hard pass okay but going back to the video this is what's going on one thing I don't understand the video okay okay so let me explain for those of you who may not be involved on a worship team of you who are not millennials if you're a boomer yeah yeah yeah yeah we'll fill you in okay so this is this is what's happening so the worship they they had I guess planned to do a song called Here Again by Elevation say would you maybe hear again and so it's it's a great song and so apparently the worship leader starts singing Holy Forever but the the person on piano who's also running tracks had already started the tracks for Here Again.

SPEAKER_02 35:32

Yeah so but at the moment like in the beginning of the tracks of here again it didn't clash like there was nothing that was clashing yet. So what he did was as soon as it was about to start clashing and what he did was he saved it. He saved it basically the guy on the piano who is also called the MD, the music director he saved it and so he cut the tracks then he started calling out the chords to the band and started telling them like okay play the five go all right go to the two all right go to one they didn't have the chord charts apparently apparently they needed direction so he's directing the entire band to you know play the song to support the worship leader.

SPEAKER_05 36:10

Okay so he went with the song that was that the not the right song was not the pre-planned song.

SPEAKER_02 36:17

There you go yeah so maybe it was the right song according to the screen back in my day you just went with it. Yeah yeah and so that's what they did right this is the old school came back.

SPEAKER_00 36:28

The old school came back they just went with it no tracks no I guess no click I don't remember if there was no yeah I think they still had a click going yeah they still had a click and you know like we've been in moments like that in worship before and sometimes it's not necessarily like oh I just forgot what song we were supposed to go into. No sometimes it's because like I as a worship leader you're like no I feel the Lord the Lord doing something and we need to go here and so instead of yeah but then you got to communicate that so we do our own page. Yeah we do. I mean there's there's a level of it that's communication and there are times too where like you know where you know the worship leader like there are times where where Deb will ex experience God on saying hey look we're going here right and so there's times where she'll go or there's moments where you know even our MDs and and all they we know that about each other. We've built a relationship with each other kind of have some tendencies there it's like if I start singing something okay let's drop out and then chords get called out right you know we'll drop these pads out I mean we'll drop these instruments out the tracks and we'll just bring some pad and then we'll ease into it or however and it's it's pretty technical but it's important because you know we want to follow the flow of the Holy Spirit in that moment. Right.

SPEAKER_05 37:43

So and I think that's another thing you know how how do you live in a technical world but yet still have a flow of the spirit right because everything can be so pre-planned that there's no room God. You choke out the spirit the one thing that I would have to say about my era was that wasn't a possibility. That's true.

SPEAKER_02 38:05

You just had to have musicians that were prepared worship leaders that were prepared but back in my day if a worship leader and the the main musicians were in sync they could go into whatever whenever however they wanted and there was no delay you know right and it was just uh it was like a an instantaneous flow right and then there were some real pitiful ones too exactly exactly exactly and I think I think the more people practice and like just get more expertise on their you know the way that MD was able to direct the whole team that takes experience and that takes practice and that takes courage and so as people are are continuing to grow in their craft and grow in those things there's a way that you can use technology and you can also flow with the Holy Spirit and the thing about that situation that was played is it it wasn't dishonoring. Right.

SPEAKER_05 39:10

Yeah absolutely he wasn't like dude what are you doing exactly yeah this is not according to the plan yeah yeah but he continued he he made it as right as he could right and as good as he could yeah and it sounded like it turned out great yeah shout out to all the MDs oh thank you you guys keep things together behind the scenes yeah music directors yes thank you give honor where it's due shout out to all the MDs all the hard work all the stuff that goes into that that's real man that's real yes I love that yes for real shout out well we I would say we praise that I'm amazing that I think now that I understand it yes yes exactly exactly welcome to the new age exactly come kicking and screaming but I'm here I'm here all right now we're gonna move into frequently asked questions all right frequently asked questions today is father daughter how does one identify if they are walking under these heavy weights these humanistic heavy weights that God did not put on them well uh I think that really goes to the essence of religion because with religion comes this sense of shame I I can never be good enough because it it almost becomes like a works you know like I have to look a certain way I have to act a certain way I have to be a certain way and and there is a there is truth in all of that Jesus does change the way we look he does change how we talk but it is a prog a progression you don't get there overnight right you know um so struggling with condemnation like never feeling good enough like no matter what I do it's just not good enough for God and that's not the truth right you know you've got three little boys Jonathan Asher and Solomon and they're incredible but they don't always do things right they don't always do things the right way you know and sometimes you have to get on to them but that doesn't mean you don't love them. In a family a a son or daughter should feel a sense of security right that their mother and father love them they may have to correct them they may have to discipline them but they love them. They have this sense of belonging to love you know and when you struggle with condemnation constantly you just never feel like you belong like you're never good enough you're never you've never really attained to it and it becomes that works mentality but we're saved by grace through faith it's the gift of God not what we do. If it was we could brag about it but it's nothing to do with us it's because daddy said I love you. Daddy we call in dad we call him God daddy now daddy god I'm gonna stick the father I'm gonna stick the father God yeah daddy daddy just don't that just don't do it for me that that's a shame then I'm then that triggers my dad rebuilding did I did I fail then because I should be a good daddy good representation I love the word father daddy god I love father you are a great representation Abba's daddy yeah the Bible says we cry out Abba Father true true it sounds silly in our vernacular when you say daddy god in English it does but the it's the but you the whole point is we'll go to kingdom for for it yeah is a deep relationship that's good yes with Jesus with with the father we have this relationship with him that we can we I mean as corny as it sounds we can crawl up in his lap yeah yeah hide under the shadow of his wings that's my favorite book oh yeah that's good and we're commanded to pray that right come on like our father yeah which art in heaven our father my daddy my daddy okay all right he freed me now I'm getting the gag remote daddy's DNA shout out Brennan okay well with that being said we love we love daddy God and we hope that this episode has given you so much joy and you have been delivered from the spirit of religion and cast off every weight and sin that so easily entangles you and run freely the race that God has put in front of you to run wherever he's called you to make disciples of nations.

SPEAKER_02 43:46

Yes and that we can truly do that in the freedom of the joy of his spirit and so we thank you Dad that is it's been an been an honor for me we thank you for an incredible daughter Thank you so much. And you have been a great representation of Christ. Well thank you. And so thank you for that. I received that. I received that. All right. Please tune in next time for the next episode of Protect the Altar Podcast.