Paul Baloche Interview: Worship, Leadership, and Legacy!

Paul Baloche Interview: Worship, Leadership, and Legacy

Join us for a special live conversation with worship leader and songwriter Paul Baloche as he shares insights from decades of ministry, leadership, and songwriting. In this episode of Protect the Altar, we discuss the heart of worship, staying faithful through seasons of ministry, and the legacy of a life devoted to glorifying Jesus.

Subscribe for more conversations that inspire and equip believers to cultivate God's presence and protect what matters most. #PaulBaloche #WorshipLeader #ProtectTheAltar #ChristianPodcast #WorshipMusic

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

To serve someone else's ministry first, I think is really important. Serve in any way you can. Maybe you just observe, like, looks like they could use help here. And like, hey, do you mind? Hey, I can mow your lawn if you need it, or hey, I could do this, or just look for ways to serve someone that you respect and someone that you could glean from.

SPEAKER_01 0:18

As worshippers, one of the most important things is that our hearts are kept and preserved through it all. And so you've been in ministry, you have the test of time to show, and you had the heart, your heart preserved, and I think that's with intention. So I would love for you to be able to impart to us how do we preserve our heart?

SPEAKER_02 0:36

Wherever there's people, there's gonna be issues. There's personalities, there's temperaments. That's why the ministry to the Lord, all that stuff is so important. Our prayer keeping our hearts tender, our our hearts soft, keeping short accounts. You know, if someone does offend you. My pastor, he had a term EGRs, extra grace required.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

All right, welcome to another episode of Protect the Altar Podcast. And today we have a special guest with us here, Paul Belage. Come on, give it up for Paul. So, for those of you who don't already know, Paul is a legend when it comes to writing songs for the church and living uh an honorable life for the Lord. And you've been serving the Lord now for how many years? If you want to disclose that. Okay, so that's like almost 50 years.

SPEAKER_02 1:39

Yeah, probably. That's crazy, right? So uh yeah, I was 19 and I was playing in a rock band at the Jersey Shore and living living for the devil. And um anyway, got born again not long after that, which is a story in itself. But yeah, so been trying to follow Jesus for those many years.

SPEAKER_01 2:02

So that was after the Jesus people movement?

SPEAKER_02 2:05

Kinda, kind of after, I think. Yeah. Wow. I had never even heard Christian music, so I got born again, and then it was like in Philly. There's I never heard Christian music, but there was like some AM radio station, like, oh, look at this. It's like pretty good music and it's about God. Like pretty good music. That's cool. It's like rock music, but it's about Jesus. Like, huh? So that was really interesting to me. And people like, you know, Mylan Lefevre, and uh, you know, like it's like, man, that's that's who's doing that? And it seemed like it was mostly Southern California. A lot of it was there. So at one point, I in a year or two, I loaded up my little Toyota Selica and drove five days from New Jersey to California, didn't know anybody, and went to Jack Havertz Church to school there. But the Lord just opened, I met different artists, and um, this one artist, Kelly Willard, she sang on a lot of Marinath and Vineyard projects, and long story short, uh, I would go to their house on weekends and watch them have the little kids. I would like mow their lawn or you know, empty the dishwasher, or hang out and just play the guitar in her kitchen, and then I'd watch her sit at the piano and kind of write a song and be like, huh. So that's kind of how you do sort of like life and and do music and ministry and family, huh? Interesting. So that was a big and then they moved to Muscle Shoals, Alabama, and I helped them move and ended up eventually a few months later, moved and lived there for about a year and uh worked with Lenny LeBlanc, and Lenny was another mentor to me, just observing the way he would lead worship. Uh there was a humility and a um he'd already like he had had a career, like he opened for Leonard Skinnard and all these big deals when he was pop, then boom, he got born again, and here he was a humble guy, sort of a maintenance guy at a church and the worship leader at a church. Um and I just played guitar on Sundays and would travel with him a little bit sometimes, and that was a real influence to watch how he kept connected. He was just very transparent and um yeah, very real and um authentic. I didn't wouldn't have put words to that, but as a young, impressionable single guy, I was like, nah, that that just feels legit to me.

SPEAKER_01 4:28

That's so good. So you I love that you submitted yourself to people like that were already doing that, and you were just naturally like how did how did they do that? And you were just observing. So, but now fast forward, you've had 30, you said three years with integrity music. You've been releasing and uh helping other people release and write songs with other people and for the church. So, how did that start? So you're you're kind of being mentored by Lenny and others, and then how did you get into writing for your local church? How did you know that that was a calling of God on your life?

SPEAKER_02 5:06

Good question. I think there is like a pull, pull the principle out for anybody watching this. Like to serve someone else's ministry first, I think is really important to look for a way to just um serve in any way you can. Maybe you just observe, like, looks like they could use help here. And I hey, do you mind? Hey, I can mow your lawn if you need it, or hey, I I could do this, or just look for ways to serve someone that you respect and someone that you could glean from. Um if they want that, you don't you can't like force yourself on someone, but if like the Lord just makes that happen naturally, or you might just boldly uh at least initiate, like, hey, I'd love to help in any way I can. And you if you need help administratively, or so I think just that principle, I'd love to just like like that's worth like putting a stake in the ground, like serving someone else's ministry first before and I think that that faithfulness principle, as you're faithful to serve other ministries, then at some point God may entrust you with I'll say your own ministry, but you know, it's all God's, but you know, something that's really on your heart to do, God may really open up opportunities for you to do that as you have uh proven yourself serving others faithfully. So then, yeah, uh eventually moved back to Jersey, got married to my wife this whole time where her and I were corresponding and we had known each other, got married, lived in Jersey for about a year, and then we just had this um it's a long story, but we were we went to last day's ministries. It was Keith Green. So Keith Green, so Melody Green was there. Keith, the the plane crash had happened already, but last day's ministries was like a Christian commune, basically. And you know, we were God opened up the chance to live in this little single-wide mobile home on the property there, and we ate our meals in the cafeteria. And anyway, it was just an interesting YWAM, youth with a mission, discipleship training. It was just, you know, our parents thought we were crazy, you know. My my father-in-law, geez, Paul, what kind of life is that? You know, going around the country singing music like a bunch of gypsies or something, you know. Sorry, Pop. Yeah, I mean, I get it, but we just feel like anyhow, plugging into the local church there, which was a kind of a hodgepodge of like some YWAM people, some Mercy Ships people, some local folks, and it was very sort of casual. The pastor would oftentimes lead, there was just a piano player, and he'd say, Let's just sing a new song as the dear, you know, that was like a new song. And um, and but it was very that he would he would preach from just sitting on a stool. And uh after, you know, just playing guitar for a few months. After a while, I mentioned that earlier that at one point after he finished, Paul, why don't come lead us in a couple songs and we're gonna have a time of prayer. Those who want prayer, why don't you come begin to line up over here? And so that was the beginning for me of like stepping beyond being a guitarist and beginning to like lead a little bit. And after doing that a few times, the pastor said to me, you know, because I kept saying, Hey, if you need help with the youth, or if you want to meet, I can like mow the lawn, or I can, you know. Uh he said, you know, if you do anything, I'll never forget. He pointed at me, and it's like the finger of God. And he said, if you do anything, you you should lead worship. You're a worshiper. And it was just like, shows the power of our words. Some of us that have been walking with God, have you recognized something in a young person to be able to just say, I see this in you, because I didn't see that. I didn't have the confidence to, but he's like, You're a worshiper. And if you do anything here, you should lead worship. And can't really pay you anything, but that that room behind the stage, we can clean that out. It's like a closet, but you can use that as an office and maybe put a team together and just see what the Lord does. And I was like, wow, okay. And at the time I'm like giving guitar lessons, I'm trying to paint, I'm just trying to like make a little money because I've got two little babies now. So yeah, that was the beginning of um, so then our the keyboard player, him and I occasionally would, after a pastor would preach, we'd see, we'd be like, man, we should write a song on what he just preached. And over a few months we thought, why don't we get a recorder? And we got a real-to-reel recorder and put it in that back room, and we just said, Why don't we meet at the church a couple times a week? And based on the sermon, or just if you have an idea, let's just try to write songs for our church. And like, so we just I think that's an important principle too, of just like making uh like scheduling and making that a priority if you're called to that, to actually show up at a church with someone else. Sometimes the accountability, if you're all by yourself, sometimes it's so easy to be like, uh, I'm not feeling it today. But if you made an appointment to show up at nine o'clock with someone else, then you'll show up and you're like, I don't really have an idea. Oh, you have an idea. Oh, okay, great, let's hear it. And so that's what happens is typically one or the other will have an idea, or if you don't, let's open the word, we're just read the word, make some more coffee. And you know, be little by little songs would be written, and about every four or five songs, we'd maybe feel like we should we should try to teach this one maybe sometime. So every once in a while, out of that experience, we'd say, Hey, good morning. Um, we're gonna, you know, a few months ago or a few weeks ago, Pastor preached on God's mercy, and uh, so this morning, this is a simple course. I'm gonna try to teach this, maybe uh see if you can pick it this up. So it was the kind of place where we could get away with that.

SPEAKER_01 10:52

It's really good. So, Shameless Plug, Paul's new album, Yes We Believe, has As the Deer on it. I thought that was interesting. Why did you choose to do that one? It was new back then, but now for our generation, it's a throwback, which we love. So tell me why did you choose that one?

SPEAKER_02 11:09

Very good question. Because the person who wrote that is Marty Nystrom, who was a student at Christ for the Nations. So I was aware that, and I'd heard him share that story many, many years ago of how he was going to school there and he was downtime, and he's so he was like a time of fasting. He was like in this one-week fast, and he was just praying and playing and worshiping, and that song came from that time. So here we are in the midst of worship, doing this recording, and just that there was a moment in the night where it was never planned. It was just in that like we did last night and this morning. Sometimes I'm prone to do something that's not planned, and in that moment, just felt like I thought of how that song was birthed in this place, and as the dear, and then the other song that was birthed there, when we finished the whole night, the last song on the root on the recording is a song I wrote with someone else, and it's uh to him who sits on the throne, I'll praise everybody. It's a big, it's like a big, our last song. And when we rehearse it, our last time we rehearsed it before the recording, I turned to one of the singers and said, How about like this feels like the night is over, we're done. And how about just while we're still in that key? How about it? It would be like me asking you, Deborah, what if like it feels like it's over, we're in this moment of like wow. And then out of that, you come out and sing, To him who sits on the throne and unto the land. You ever heard that song? To him who sits on, be blessing and glory and honor and power forever, right? Yeah, that was a massive song, but that was birthed in Christ with the nations, too. So it was another spontaneous, like just to get that chorus in there, just to pay tribute to what God did 40 years ago in that place, you know.

SPEAKER_01 13:06

That's so good. I love how you're so sensitive to the spirit, even in the worship sets. You don't hold tightly to a set list so much that you're not willing, if the Lord is breathing on something, to go there. And it's really powerful, it's evident. And so one thing that I think a lot of worship leaders, people in ministry can struggle with a lot is how relationally with people, sometimes it can we can offend one another in the body of Christ, we could, you know, hurt one another, whether it's knowingly or unknowingly. And so as worshipers, one of the most important things is that our hearts are kept and preserved through it all. And so you've been in ministry and you have the the test of time to show and you had the heart, your heart preserved, and I think that's with intention. So I would love for you to be able to impart to us how do we preserve our hearts when we're facing difficulties amongst relation relationships with different moody worshipers or you know, pastors. How do we do that?

SPEAKER_02 14:12

Excellent question. That's we're talking real life, aren't we? Those of you that are on worship teams. Because wherever there's people, there's gonna be issues. There's personalities, there's temperaments, there's moods. And you know, it requires that's why the ministry to the Lord, all that stuff is so important. Our prayer keeping our hearts tender, our our hearts soft, keeping short accounts. You know, if someone does offend you or someone is just constantly sort of annoying, or like you know what I mean, just dealing with it, like just bringing it into the light in your mind and just go and call it what it is. Um, sometimes my pastor he had a term EGRs, extra grace required.

unknown 15:02

That's good.

SPEAKER_02 15:03

So sometimes there was someone on the team that was just like, you know, not in a condescending way, but an EGR, just sort of like a note to self, this person, for whatever reason, you know, emotionally or spiritually, maybe they're in a place where they're tender, they're insecure, they're whatever that might be. So this is a lifelong learning uh throughout our lives. If we're gonna do this, it's um if you if you accept the challenge of just um trying to love people, you know, there's a verse in the New Testament referring to a marital relationship that says, live with your wife in an understanding way. I always like kind of take that out of context and think, yeah, let that apply to like live with your bass player in an understanding way, live with your alto singer, your drummer, your um sound tech, like an understanding, like pray for an understanding about where they're coming from. And it wouldn't hurt to do a couple of these, you know, we can poke fun at some of these personality tests, but some of them are a little bit helpful once you it helped me a lot. Like the most basic one back in the day was uh it was uh choleric, sanguine, melancholy. That was the old Tim LaHaye. Remember that one, y'all? Yes. Um, that was like a good basic, like, okay, she's more sanguine or he's more melancholy. Because I would have this feeling sometimes like that, like my bass player just never smiled. I had this feeling that every time I would turn around, he was like rolling his eyes at me or something. And one time I said to him, I have this feeling that that like I'm annoying to you. Like maybe you look at me as like a game show host or something, and you just because you're kind of a deep person, and I get it. And on another test, he would be like a number four or a five, like more of a deep introvert thinker and a person that's able to look at things and go, smell phoniness. And I'm like, look, I know sometimes on a Sunday morning I may look like I'm a you know a game show host, but I have to be like a little bit upbeat. I can't be like, hey, what's up, everybody? What's up, man? I had a really hard week, so we're just gonna do a lot of songs in E minor this morning. Hope you don't mind that, you know. I can't do that. Like I have to like conjure up as if I was a a waiter or a waitress. Uh, you know, you have to just conjure up like this is my role in this moment to be like, good morning. Like, bring the best version of yourself without being a phony, but try to at least, you know. So, all that to say, yeah, it's a lifelong thing, a few of those personality tests you could do with your team as sort of a fun, hey, just for fun, let's do this and be like, ah, how about that? Oh, who knew that you were a melancholy? Huh? I would have never guessed. That's why you're always looks like your dog died. Anyway, but it does help you not take things as personal because you're like, you know, that's kind of a way they're wired. They're wired a bit that way, and it gives you it has allowed me to give more grace to people and not take it as personal, just going. So again, I'm not through it all. You know, I'm still living life, and there's still situations I run into where I'm like, ah, this is hard. And so it requires, you know, humble yourself, try to stay humble, try not to be reactive.

SPEAKER_01 18:40

Um that's amazing. Okay, so as we wrap up this segment, I have one other question I want to ask you. If you had to wake up tomorrow and your whole entire catalog of songs were gone, they never happened, but you could only choose one. Which one would you choose in why?

SPEAKER_02 19:08

I don't know why that makes me emotional. Isn't that weird? The older I get, the more when I feel a little emotional, I immediately go, Lord, what is that? Why why did that question evoke something in me? Huh. It's worth paying attention. Take that to the Lord and go, is that grief? Is there some kind of grief? Am I grieving? If I shove something way down, us men a lot will be like to compartmentalize a lot of things where you like put it in a box. I'm like, we might deal with that 10 years from now, but we're just not even gonna think about it from now because we got stuff to do. We don't got time for that. And then it just sort of leaks out sometimes. And you're like, what is that? Like a like a leak from your ceiling. You're like, oh no. Anyway, a good question. I mean, one would be, you know, open the eyes, I guess. It's not because it's because that prayer still is my prayer. I want to see you. I want to see you, and the other one, maybe your name. Because I just that that prayer is like, Jesus, in your name we pray. Come and fill my heart today. God, give me strength. God, would you give me strength to live for you? So I believe in those prayers, you know.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

That's really good. Really good. Thank you so much for this. And we're gonna move on to the next segment where we're gonna get Paul to react to a viral video and see whether he would praise or pass it. So bless his heart. We didn't want to take someone else's video for this segment. Uh, we normally react to people all across the world, okay? But this one we wanted to react to our own video.

unknown 21:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 21:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 21:03

I have no idea what's happening.

SPEAKER_01 21:05

This may or may not include Kyle. Just to preface this, this is a video at a rehearsal. We just happened to grab the footage from a rehearsal.

SPEAKER_00 21:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

And it was Kyle was starting the set, and we were just going through it, and he was having a little too much fun.

SPEAKER_00 21:49

He was still getting the words together.

SPEAKER_02 21:52

Where was that coming from? What what made you do that?

SPEAKER_00 21:56

A D D?

SPEAKER_02 22:09

I love the freedom in that though. I love that. I bet you Ariel would have thought that was funny.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

Right? She's like, why did you learn my name? I love the freedom in that.

SPEAKER_02 22:19

Well, a lot of times that first song should be like joyful. It's an outer court song. It's like, yay! It's like, I think there needs to be some levity and fun and lightheartedness at times, especially right at the top.

SPEAKER_01 22:32

So you would recommend that for a live Sunday?

SPEAKER_02 22:34

Ha ha. If it's an authentic thing, if it was just like if it's Kyle being Kyle, if it's Kyle being Kyle, like you know what I mean? We don't want the authentic Kyle. I don't think the world is ready for that. Like, again, it's family. So it's one of those things where like if most of the church know and they're like, that's just Kyle being Kyle, then I think it's fine. Now, if you were a guest somewhere else and you did that, then someone might be like, what the heck? What the heck's going on?

SPEAKER_00 23:12

That's so funny. So you would praise it.

SPEAKER_01 23:16

Praise it? Praise it or pass it.

SPEAKER_02 23:18

Oh, that's the option. Praise it or pass it. I wish there was a middle ground. Um I would allow it, accept it, tolerate it. I wouldn't praise it. I wouldn't say like, that's awesome. But I wouldn't say like, don't ever do that again. I would just be like, dude, I mean, that was just like, you know, first song out of the gate, people know you. You're just like, it's like a fun, crazy, silly thing. Um, it wouldn't it wouldn't offend you. It wouldn't offend me now if it was my local church.

SPEAKER_01 23:49

Yeah. Now, full disclosure, that was a rehearsal. That was not an actual Sunday.

SPEAKER_02 23:54

Oh, well then, well then I would praise it at a rehearsal.

SPEAKER_01 23:57

At a rehearsal, yes.

SPEAKER_02 23:59

If it's rehearsal, I'd praise it because you got to keep things fun.

SPEAKER_00 24:04

That was great.

SPEAKER_02 24:05

Yeah, fun is an important. Everybody say fun.

SPEAKER_00 24:08

Fun.

SPEAKER_02 24:09

Let's not forget that. Like we even said this last night as we were praying. The scripture comes to my mind where Paul says, the Apostle Paul, rejoice in the Lord always. Again, I say rejoice. And in the last year or so, I've just I might be heretical, but I'm like, isn't rejoice another word, the way to say that might be like, have fun, like rejoice, have fun. Like, so I've been saying, have fun in the Lord. Again, I say, have fun. Like, like that's that's important. That church becomes a place of joy. The joy of the Lord is our strength. So we pray and we we we long for those moments of deep inner court, holy of holy worships. We're on our face. It's like, but but it's not all can't always be that. Like, there's the outer court, there's the inner court. Yes, there's the holy of holies where we're just don't even want to make a sound, and it's just holy, ho. But there has to be times where we're clapping, we're lifting our hands, we're shouting the Lord, woo, make a joyful noise, yeah, you know, guitar solo, woo-hoo! You know, like just saying, so I think it's the whole buffet. It's the whole here, here's the bottom line. We this was like, gosh, years ago, I had this statement, and I was kind of drilling it into our church saying, let's explore every biblical option that we have in expressing our worship to the Lord. And I was saying, I'm not here trying to make any of you like do something you don't want to do. I'm not trying to get you to dance or jump or lift your hands or do things. I'm only just reading a scripture going, huh? We haven't really done that, have we? Like Psalm 95 says, Come let us sing for joy to the Lord. We do that. Let us shout aloud to the rock of our salvation. We don't really shout, do we? I that's fine. I'm not like typically a shouter, but the word does say, shout aloud. So I don't know. Want to try that this morning, guys? Like, this is literally my church. And I'd say, like, how about we just like on three, just give a little shout to the Lord. One, two, three. I was like, that's so that wasn't so bad. And so I'll just kind of like put it out there and go, there it is, the scripture. So maybe sometime this morning during our worship, we may like do that again, just because the word says we can. And then I'd move on. I didn't make a big deal out of it, but the point is the underlying thing, if you want to write it down, is hey, over the next year we're gonna explore every biblical option we have in expressing our praise and our worship to the Lord. That gives people like safety, it gives them a guardrail. It's not like, oh man, don't try to make me do this or that, but then they see it in the word of God and go, hey, whenever you're ready to do that, here's scripture. Some of you we can try. How about this morning? It says, you know, lifting holy hands. How about maybe you've never done this before? Can how about we lift a hand as if you were just gonna reach up and just touch the Lord? Let's just do that. Let's just can we reach up a hand? Let's do that. Yeah. Hey, that's not so bad. I mean, while we're at it, let's lift the other hand. Let's try that. And it's like, all right, there you go. And then, like, I'm not gonna take a poll, but some of you have never done that. But you know what it reminds me of, for one, surrender. What's the first thing if you're getting around? Surrender, hands in the air. Also reminds me of like a football analogy of like, hey, throw me the ball. Hey, look, you know, it's almost like this posture of like, Lord, throw me, throw me something, you know, throw me the ball. Like, I'm here, I'm ready to receive. So, anyway, that's an example.

SPEAKER_01 27:52

And he is teaching us how to teach our congregation, not only how to pastor them and care about them, but also how to teach them how to worship. Because there are people who are coming in on Sundays and they have no idea. They only know how to worship themselves or worship their concerns and their worries. They don't know how to actually worship the Lord the way he wants to be worshiped. And he's teaching us how to practically teach them and not make it weird. So that is amazing. Thank you for that. That's so, so good. So we we praise that for practice and then implement on Sunday mornings these teachings in in our sets. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 28:27

It's a way to like a year from now, wouldn't it be fun over the next year? A year from that, we look back and go, oh, look how many more expressions. Yeah, you know, and sometimes I've gone as far as like, again, this is my local church. I'd be like, you know, as I got to know my wife, there's expressions of love. Maybe there was a a time where I finally, you know, took her hand and like, oh, we're holding hands. That's that's an expression of love. Maybe there was a time where we, you know, we hugged. That's a that's an expression of um, you know, there's a time we kissed eventually, you know, like, okay, that's that's an expression. So let's look at all the different expressions in the word that we can that God has said, yeah, express your love this way, express your worship this way, express your praise this way. And so if you're patient, always be come at it with a patient, non-like, don't, don't guilt people or manipulate, no trickery here. Just say, hey, if you feel free, I use that phrase a lot, write that down and steal it from me. I'll say, quite often I'll be, even if I'm in a different house. Let's say if this last night, of course, I sensed in the first three seconds, like, oh man, we could do almost anything we want tonight. And and it was amazing. It was so fun, right? Just the freedom, the level of like I literally didn't have to say, like, hey, let's stand up. It was like 20 people just like they wanted to stand here and worship. So I was like, well, there we go. They love it. Um, but if I'm in a place that's much more conservative in their expression, I want to respect, that's an important word, respect the house, respect the tradition, respect where they're at. I literally, real quick, a story back in the day, I remember like doing this thing at Bethel Church. It was like a school of worship, and got to do a Sunday morning, and it was just sort of like like last night, kind of like, wow, we're open for anything here. You know, you could play a G chord for 15 minutes and like woo! Everybody would just worship to that, you know. But then a week later, literally, it was like the National Southern Baptist Convention worship pastors and leaders. And again, my heart, I just remember the feeling that I got looking at their faces, and just I felt such a uh just a heart for them. Like, and just immediately my brain was like, don't expect them to be like that. That's that's unfair. It's unfair to just like put people in a box and expect everybody's gotta be the same. No, they don't. Let's just respect where they're at. So, point being, again, respect is really important. Respect the people that you're leading. Ask the Lord for a context for their background. Anyway, I hope I'm not over.

SPEAKER_01 31:11

That's amazing. That's amazing. Let's give it up for Paul. Isn't he awesome? We're gonna move to our last segment of frequently asked questions, and now everybody, you should have had a chance to submit your questions. And so we are going to be picking some of your questions. First question for you. Your ministry and music have touched so many people over the years. Looking back on your journey, what has been the most rewarding part of leading worship and writing songs that have served the church?

SPEAKER_02 31:46

I just seeing how God uses uh what's what seems like such a simple or a humble little task of like putting words and music together in a way and creating this little prayer that others can sing, and then just watching in amazement the people making that their prayer, and somehow that helps them uh draw near and connect and experience the Lord is just mind-blowing and um yeah, so that's my answer.

SPEAKER_01 32:23

That's amazing. Other than the Bible, can you name a book or author who has been formative in your theology of worship?

SPEAKER_02 32:32

Say A. W. Tozer. Y'all ever heard of him? Little books. He writes little books from back in the 50s and early sixties about the knowledge of the holy, and those would be good books for you to just spend a little time with.

SPEAKER_01 32:48

That's really good. So, how did you learn to play and sing? Did you do lessons or did you learn on your own?

SPEAKER_02 32:56

Uh high school learned, like a lot of you, you know, whether it was whether it was the Beatles or James Taylor or somebody, but it was like, man, I want to that looks like fun. I want to do that. And so, you know, you get your first guitar, or maybe maybe you grew up in church and you were part of a worship team, and that's um, but yeah, just I just wanted to do that. It just seemed like that. And so all through high school, played all the time, played in bands, had we practiced in our parents' basement, New Jersey basement with a six-foot ceiling. We had martial amps and drums and B3 organs and rock. My my poor parents, God bless them. They're like, Well, at least we always knew where you were. You're right down there in our basement. We didn't have to worry about you. But like, yeah, so just played over the years, and then eventually, actually, then I got, you know, I was in bands, and then I got born again, and I thought, I think I want to do this Christian music. Like, that's really fascinating. And there was a music school, one a one-year program in LA that I read. Like, it was in the back of like guitar player magazine, like a little ad. And I thought, I think I'm gonna sign up for that. And so I went out and did a one-year school and you know, learned a lot of things about theory, music theory, and um yeah, all that. So that became some formal training, but a lot of it was just doing it, playing and playing as much as you can. I always tell people, you know, if you're a young person, play go to the nursing home, learn five hymns, and go play to nursing home. Do kids' church once a month. Get down and learn how to play Father Abraham and many sons, many sons had, you know, like like do kids' church do that, then they ask you, hey, will you do this banquet? Could you do two songs? Yeah, hey, so-and-so's getting married. Would you come and do it? Just every chance you have, say yes if this is your thing. Like, it's all experience. The more, the more you do it, the more experience, and you'll make mistakes and you'll have stories of your own of like, oh my gosh, it was a disaster, and I'm I felt so embarrassed. But that's all right, it's all part of growing, it's all part of the process.

SPEAKER_01 35:00

That's really good. Okay, so you often talk about, oops, you often talk about being intentional to put uh time aside for if you're called to writing, to actually write, even if you don't feel like it, schedule co-writes, do those things. And so, is there anything that you do to prepare beforehand? Do you um just read psalms? Do you fast? Is there anything like that that you do before writing?

SPEAKER_02 35:27

So I have prior to our podcast here, I had shared a lot with this group. Um, but yeah, ministry to the Lord, that time with the Lord throughout the week, little pockets here, 30 minutes here, an hour here, maybe another 30 minutes, those little windows of time where it's just you playing before the Lord. You're not practicing your guitar, you're you're not, you know, coming up with your set list, you're just trying to like, no strings attached, you're you're genuinely just trying to move toward the Lord, press into God, sing prayers, minister to Him. I find, but I do honestly will have my my phone or at the back of the day a recorder just handy in the event that, like we did this morning during our worship time, there was a one or two. I hope we recorded that. I used this was another thing. After worship on Sundays, I would always go back to my sound tech and go, can I grab the cassette? That's how old I am. Can I get the cassette of this morning's worship? Because, and it was not to listen to the worship, it was to listen to right before the song and in between that song and toward the end. There were just moments that I wasn't trying to write a song, but like a prayer, a sincere prayer would just pop out of my mouth as we went from song three to song four. Do you know what I mean? And I was like, oh, that that little last night we sang. I I remember it's like yesterday coming. Good morning, church. I don't know what kind of week you've had. Starting to play a little bit, you know, maybe it was a challenging week. Let's uh before we begin, let's let's just pray. The Bible says we can cast our cares upon the Lord. So, Lord, we just this morning we cast our cares aside and we put our doubts behind, we set our hearts and minds on you, Jesus. And da-da-da-da-da. Well, you know, I just moved on and we started playing. Well, later I got that little bit, and that became the beginning of casting my cares aside, putting my doubts, be setting my heart and mind on you, Jesus. Today is the day you have made. So, so many songs I could trace. We could do a one-hour thing on just take a song and I'll show you. Oh, yeah, I remember that prayer. I remember reading that script. Oh, I remember that. So it's uh songwriting becomes a lifestyle, it's a creative way to stay connected to the Lord. Think of it that way. Songwriting isn't like, oh, I'm gonna set aside 15 minutes a day to songwriting. No, let it become, if this is your thing, it's not everybody's thing, but like you're just 24-7, just open to like even just the 24 hours we've spent. You know, we've had a few moments where you'll say something or someone on the team, we're like, oh, great song. Last night, someone said, uh, bring Jesus back. What was the phrase? Um back to Jesus. Hey, let's get back to Jesus. That was like, hey, I know I was talking about some we're ready to get started, the second half, and someone like, let's get back to Jesus. And could have just let that go, but it was just for fun. It was like, back to Jesus. That sounds like it could be a song. Like, oh Lord, uh how did it go? Oh Lord, take me back to Jesus. Oh Lord, take me back to Jesus. That wasn't it, it was a better one, but all that to say, like, just be in that mood where, and like I said last night, I probably were above all from a TV commercial, probably like blah blah blah, these are the benefits, and these are that, and the other, and this will do this, and above all, it will stop your you know, your constipation, you know. Uh, but the point being, like, something in my brain went, above all. Interesting, that's a cool, that's an interesting phrase. Write that down. And then six months later, spending time with the Lord on that Sunday, minister to the Lord, and I'll set aside a little bit of maybe margin for like maybe there's uh an idea here while I'm in this frame of mind ministering to the Lord, maybe. Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah. Uh then I'll use that ministry to the Lord time toward the end to begin thinking about some song ideas I may have, and just kind of like seeing if something will develop, like singing with just that little phrase, singing that little scripture, just all of a sudden, oh, I'm getting a little bit more. Oh, yeah, mm-hmm, yeah. Oh, and you're just singing that. I feel like again, so you save those, you collect those. So it's almost like I picture David collecting like stones that he could kill Goliath with. You know, he's like, oh, here's a good one, nice and shiny. It's got, oh yeah, flint. Oh, this is great. I'm saving this one. And so then you walk into a writing session with someone that you have mutual respect for musically and spiritually. So Lee, right? And you don't have to go to Nashville. There could be somebody in your in this city where you have the courage to go, hey, maybe once a month, I've got some song ideas, some bits. Would you be open to like meeting for at a church maybe with a few other writers for 15 minutes? We could talk about that. But the bottom line is very good. Um, and I will say real quick, this is not a shameless plug, all this stuff's for free. If you go to my website, leadworship.com, lead worship. So, what do you guys do on Sunday? I lead worship. Okay, so leadworship.com. There is a hours and hours of me like like going deep on how I think about leading worship, how I think about putting a song list together, how I think about taking a simple idea and trying to run it through and and cultivate it to where it can become a song that others can sing. You know what I'm saying? So there's songwriting, little modules. So leadworship.com, go there. Oh, there it is. It'll take you to all these little modules that and it's it's like I said, it's all free.

SPEAKER_01 41:17

So that's so good, such a great resource. Okay, so with songwriting, a lot of times, and anybody who is creative, they can struggle often with being self-critical. How all these years, how have you navigated that? And what is your advice to any songwriters who might be struggling with being overly critical on their songwriting?

SPEAKER_02 41:41

Yeah, it's so true. To this day, I am to this day. I get really nervous about going to Nashville after all these years. I go to Nashville, I feel like I'm a beginner. I feel like I'm gonna walk into this room and they're gonna be after 10 minutes think, how did I get stuck writing with this loser? And isn't that ridiculous? But that's the voice that's in my head. So I have to, I'm just saying, we all have to fight that voice. It's like I have a feeling like whoever the other writer is, they're thinking 15 minutes, like, man, what a waste of time. And yet it never turns out that way. So I have to remind myself, I know, let me get back to your question more specifically. Just know that that voice will be there. And you just it's kind of like feel the fear and do it anyway. You know, that's like a uh in my life, there's always been like feel the fear, but do it anyway. You know, um, God has not given us a spirit of fear. There's all these great scriptures about overcoming fear, so it's like, yes, we'll feel fear, but it's like, wait, somebody gonna shoot me? No. Somebody gonna punch me in the face? No. Like, um, what's the worst that can happen? The worst that can happen is they might be like, well, that was kind of boring. All right, I can live with that. Do you know what I'm saying? Even as a worship leader, frankly, there's times where I'm like, oh man, I frankly, this weekend, what if this morning I'm like, hey, let's do a workshop. That voice in my head, like, what if I do that Saturday morning thing and people are like, Man, I could have gone fishing this morning, but I have to listen to this guy talk for an hour, you know. Anyway, I have to fight that and go, no, maybe I feel like maybe I'll have something that will encourage people. So, anyway, so you'll always probably have a little bit of that self-critical. Find two or three people. Maybe they're not even a songwriter, maybe it's a mature person in the faith. Uh, for me, it was a pastor who was not musical, and once a week or every other week, I'd play him a few ideas and he'd give me a little bit of feedback. Um asking for feedback, when you do get a song idea, real quick, ask, don't just play songs for your mom. Because your mom's gonna love everything you do, right? I mean, Deborah goes, you go to your mom, and your mom, oh my God, it's my daughter. I love her, she's her amazing.

SPEAKER_01 44:00

Well she's she's a little less biased than most moms, but yeah but I'm sure I agree.

SPEAKER_02 44:05

But in general, like moms, they're for you. So uh find someone who you respect musically and spiritually. They may not even be a great musician, but at least they're but um just simply say I don't want you to patronize me. I'm not looking for you to pat on the back. Just I'm gonna ask you to like listen to this and read the lyric and just tell me what feels good. If there's anything about it that you're like, that feels good. That chorus, that feels good. Or that opening the couple lines, that feels good. And then number two, the other question is simply what feels funny? Not ha ha funny, but what feels like just something like I don't know, something about that. There's something about that that just feels like uh a little off to me. So that's it. That will help you get honest critique, and when you critique others, I'll say to them, this is all I'm gonna do for you. Not gonna tell you, I'm just gonna say that what feels good feels is very important because there's not a right or wrong. Songs are very subjective. So what feels good and what feels like you need to take a second look at that.

SPEAKER_01 45:11

Yeah, that's really good. Okay, I want to get to some of these funny questions. Uh but before we wrap up, they want to know what hair products do you use. AirPods. And I want to know who submitted that question.

SPEAKER_02 45:26

Seriously, AirPods?

SPEAKER_01 45:27

Hair products. They want to know what hair products hair products, hilarious. Do you even know? You just probably wake up like that, don't you?

SPEAKER_02 45:35

Um, it's just like a paste of some kind. I don't know what the it might be uh uh we lived in New York, there was a guy named Arrojo, and you'd call the the salon and be like, never mind. My my daughter and I have this. We used to my daughter had it down. Hi, thanks you for calling Arogio. Listen to your menu options because they've changed recently for product press one for appointment, press two. Anyway, he had this interesting accent. My my daughter and I'd be like, This is so funny. And she could do a stellar impersonation. Anyway, yeah, whatever. I never use a comb, a brush, or anything. I just put a little product in my hair when it's wet, and just go like that's it. Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 46:18

Thank you. Thank you for that question. Who whoever asked that? Also, they want to know are bass solos back?

SPEAKER_02 46:26

Bass solos. I mean, we did one last night and praise that.

SPEAKER_00 46:31

That was not you. Neither one of those questions about the hair or the bass was about you.

SPEAKER_02 46:36

I mean, they're not bad. I think if you watch all the old Ron Cannoli videos, man, Abe Le Boreal, there was always a bass solo. It was fun. Um, I think like an opening, up tempo, outer court, joyful song, throw in a bass solo if you want. Like it's in the context that matters. Or the opposite would be a real tender moment, really holy moment. There was there was a moment last night, Kyle, where I forget what we were doing, but we're just laying there, and then you very tastefully and uh spiritually just kind of like we're doing some really uh uh very appropriate little runs up high on the neck and melodic things that were just really fit the vibe. So as long as it's not like drawing attention to you. Now, you know, now outer court song is sort of fun. Last night, Richie, you know, we're doing uh Hosanna. It's like Hosanna, yeah. And then there's a guitar solo in it, and I go over and like, yeah, oh, fine, you know, but that's because that's an outer court, it's a celebration, it's like, yeah, you know, it's meant to be that. Now I wouldn't throw that in maybe on a song that's more inner court or like holy of holies. That could be distracting.

SPEAKER_01 47:50

But I think, yeah, bring bring bass solos back, bring it back, bring guitar solos, bring all the fun back to the church. I love that. Okay, last fun question. If they find themselves in South Philly, do they go to Pat's or Jeno's? If I'm saying that right. How do you say that?

SPEAKER_02 48:09

Neither. Can I get an can I get a test? Can I get a uh confirmation, brothers? Neither. I would say they're not terrible. What? Tony Luke's is a good option. Angelo's is a good option.

SPEAKER_01 48:27

What are we talking about?

SPEAKER_02 48:30

What? Cheesesteaks.

SPEAKER_00 48:32

Cheesesteaks, Philly cheesesteaks.

SPEAKER_02 48:34

I love it. I love that. She's like, what does this even mean?

SPEAKER_00 48:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:38

That's perfect. Find a bodego. It's true. There are like some places like in Maple Shade, it's called the Yellow Submarine. It's right across the bridge from Philly. Like, get a cheesesteak hoagie. It's amazing. I don't know what the heck. It's the rolls, it's the it's it's more than just you're like, oh, I got one at uh Jersey Mike's yesterday in Charleston. You're like, no, you didn't. You think you did, but you didn't. It'd be like me saying, hey, I was in South Philly and I got some uh shrimp and grits. It was amazing. Wouldn't you guys be like, no, you didn't, Paul? So yesterday I had shrimp and grits at someplace something north. It was legit. It was like, wow, this is so good. So yeah, I mean, Gino's and Pat's, they're it's not terrible, but they're not the best. Scale of one to ten, they're like a seven. But Woodrow's is really like against you, never heard of that, or Angelo's. There's some that are better, yeah. That's funny.

SPEAKER_01 49:38

That's so good. We didn't get to all the questions because you guys had a lot of questions, but we covered as much as we could in the time that we had. And so we just thank you so much, Paul, for being on this podcast, for coming to Charleston. Let's give it up for him. Yes. You're a legend in the flesh. And so make sure you guys you give him his flowers, make sure you ask any other questions that we didn't get to cover. And thank you again for tuning in to this episode of Protect the Altar Podcast.