Why God Often Calls Us Beyond Our Ability!

What if the very thing God has called you to is also the place where you feel the weakest?

In this episode of Protect the Altar, Deborah Hong and Tim Rice sit down with Essential Music Publishing songwriter Nick Bays to discuss his journey in songwriting, ministry, and learning to depend on God's strength. Nick shares how our greatest gifts can often expose our greatest vulnerabilities, and why God frequently calls us into places where we cannot succeed without Him.

Join us for an honest conversation about calling, creativity, weakness, identity, and the faithfulness of God in every season.

Subscribe for more conversations that help worship leaders, creatives, and believers protect what matters most—the altar.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

There's part of me that's like, well, I think God just wants to use the thing that like you're really stoked about because that makes him stoked.

SPEAKER_06 0:06

And that's what he put it in here. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:08

Like it's like it's like turns out he wants to use your gifting. Yeah. But then like there's an there's the other half of it, which is like that will probably also involve like your Achilles heel because that's how he gets glory out of it. It's Paul in 2 Corinthians 12. It's that thing. It's the thorn of the flesh thing where it's like, it's like, okay, cool. You know, Paul has that thorn, like he asks the Lord three times to take it away. God says no.

SPEAKER_08 0:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

This is like debilitating. Like whatever it is, like you know, scholars talk about they're like, it's a mental thing or it's a physical thing, or whatever, like whatever it is, it's debilitating. Yeah. Like it's like preventing him. And he's like telling the Lord that. Like he's like, he's like, this is like getting in the way. And he says, because my power is made perfect in weakness. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:48

Right. Because if we could do it on our own, we wouldn't even lean on the Lord.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

Right. There's some translations where it like talks about he says, like, he says, like, because my weakness is like a portal for for the power of God.

SPEAKER_06 1:09

Welcome to another episode of Protect the Altar Podcast. And today we are so excited because we have a very special guest all the way from Nashville, Tennessee. Nick Vince.

SPEAKER_01 1:19

Do you do you cue do you cue the applause track now?

SPEAKER_06 1:24

Give it a couple of things.

SPEAKER_01 1:26

Are you gonna add like a like a full house?

SPEAKER_06 1:28

We should. We absolutely should. In fact, that would be great. Two episodes ago, it was a live recording audience. So that was not a oh, you did one live. That one was live.

SPEAKER_01 1:39

That one that one was kind of fun.

SPEAKER_06 1:41

So when you hear the claps in that one, that was real.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

That was real.

SPEAKER_06 1:46

But we're gonna add them in for you.

SPEAKER_01 1:47

They weren't 90s. Okay, so and I honestly prefer that. If it were just like 90s sitcom claps, yeah, that's more my flavor, I think. Maybe a whistle thing, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, just or maybe even halfway through just a quick, oh we we need a sound, we need it like you need that. That yeah, we just press the buttons, yeah. Just just the just the sample board.

SPEAKER_06 2:05

Yeah, like the Jonas Brothers podcast.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

Yeah, that would be sick. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:08

We need that. Just cue all of the noises. So today you might be wondering, Nick Bays, we want to talk about what what you do, who you are, kind of where you got into what you do. And so to preface it, Nick Bays is with Essential Music and he is a professional songwriter. He's been writing for many years. That's what I understand.

SPEAKER_01 2:29

Professional loosely would you loosely use that term.

SPEAKER_06 2:34

Nashville loosely.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They put up with me doing it, I think.

SPEAKER_06 2:39

Oh, absolutely not. Y'all, he is one of my favorites. He he helped co-write uh gallows uh with North Palm Worship, and we love that. Notorious, as well as uh While I Breathe, I hope, um, which is gonna be on our summer EP, which by the way, I haven't even told you that. I haven't even told you that that song.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

That was that's such a cool song.

SPEAKER_06 3:00

Yeah, it's it's very, you know, Monday through Saturday vibes. It's not our Sunday corporate vibe, but it's definitely a fun, you know, like reminder.

SPEAKER_08 3:09

Worship in the week.

SPEAKER_06 3:11

Worship during the week, yeah. And so Nick, you were um, I think born and raised for a period of time in Columbia, South Carolina, right?

SPEAKER_01 3:18

Correct.

SPEAKER_06 3:19

And you're tell so tell me, you kind of grew up in the church, grew up in ministry.

SPEAKER_01 3:23

That's right.

SPEAKER_06 3:23

Give us some context for how you even got involved in songwriting. Yeah, please.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

Yeah, I got you. If you will. Um, if you and I will. You guys are so official. I love this. It's just so I should do top button. Um, yes. Um, born well, I was born in Pennsylvania, but like raised in in the 803. So, yes, in Columbia. Let's go. Cola town, if you will. Do people call it that?

SPEAKER_08 3:52

They call it the Met now.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

So oh, that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right. Yeah, you were saying that yesterday. Yeah, the met the Met, which I don't know what that means, but I'm in a dude. I oh, that's right, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 4:01

I've never heard it called that. But I also don't have anything to do with Colombia, so not based at all.

SPEAKER_01 4:09

Yeah. Um, but yes, I grew up in Colombia. Um man, uh parents are in ministry. Um, my parents are kids' pastors, and so they still are, still are. Wow, yeah. So they've been doing it for my goodness, like over 40 years, which that is so cool. Yeah, and they're they're the freaking sweetest, man. Like they're just the best people.

SPEAKER_06 4:34

Are they still in Columbia?

SPEAKER_01 4:36

Um, so they're in West Virginia now, which is where they're from. Okay. And so, yeah, so they're both from West Virginia. Um, and kind of grew up like, you know, they were they were kind of moved to like a couple different churches in in their life, and um, you know, kind of like longer, um, you know, longer like staff position, you know, tenure, whatever, um, roles at churches. But yeah, so I um I was born in Pennsylvania. Um, we were there till I was, they were there for like eight years pastoring. And then um, and then we moved to South Carolina when I was six. And so um were there until I was like until I left for college.

SPEAKER_04 5:15

And wow. That was a lot of yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

So so like like South Carolina is like, you know, adolescent upbringing. Right. Home. Like that's kind of what I like consider home in terms of like growing up. But right, right. Um, yeah, but yeah, grew up uh in the church, church rat through and through.

SPEAKER_06 5:34

Um falling asleep in the pews, Hondo.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

Yes, absolutely, getting pinched by my dad. Like, sit up straight. Yeah. That is the truth. Yeah, not here.

SPEAKER_07 5:47

Get it together, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:48

Absolutely, 100%. Yeah. So yeah, grew up in the church. Um, yeah, man, church kid my whole life. And um I'm trying to think bulletin.

SPEAKER_06 5:57

How did you just like discover like this love for music and like getting into that space of even like leading worship? Did you start leading worship like in kids' church or like yeah, church through and through.

SPEAKER_01 6:07

I mean, church church was really the I think was the plug for music for sure. Um, you know, like I was, I mean, it's the 90s when I grew up. So it was like, you know, I was the like we were laughing a second ago, but it's like it's like I I was raised on Life Way Christian bookstore. Right, right, right, right. It was CCM in my blood through and through. It was like that.

SPEAKER_06 6:28

So who was your favorite artist?

SPEAKER_01 6:30

Oh man. Um, well, I mean, uh Stephen Kirst Chapman's a goat. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's just that's I mean, fight me. You know what I mean? Fight me. It's just he is. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, sorry to let everybody know. It's just he is. Yeah. Um, but yes, I I grew up on that stuff.

SPEAKER_06 6:48

Because if you were about to say Carmen.

SPEAKER_01 6:51

No, but Anne Carmen. Anne Carmen.

SPEAKER_06 6:53

I was gonna be like, dude.

SPEAKER_01 6:54

This is yeah, that's a yes and.

SPEAKER_06 6:56

Yes, yes, and uh he he like looked at.

SPEAKER_01 6:59

In mission 316. Do you remember that song?

SPEAKER_06 7:02

No, because I was a low-key freaked out by him.

SPEAKER_01 7:05

Sorry, you'll get there.

SPEAKER_06 7:07

I'll get there.

SPEAKER_01 7:07

You'll get there.

SPEAKER_06 7:08

I'll get there. I wasn't deep enough. I wasn't deep enough for Carmen.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

And you're and he's working, God's working on you. It's okay. It's okay. It's okay. Yeah, we all have a journey.

SPEAKER_06 7:17

We all have a journey.

SPEAKER_01 7:18

Yeah, it's about the journey, you know. Yeah, yeah. No, Carmen is like, yeah, he's Mount Rushmore level.

SPEAKER_03 7:25

Yeah, yeah. So I mean, he was selling out stadiums. I mean, that was incredible.

SPEAKER_01 7:29

Yeah, wow. That was incredible. He had a cartoon cat at one point.

SPEAKER_03 7:33

What? You remember that?

SPEAKER_01 7:35

Yeah, do I remember that? Again, shout out Life Way Christian Bookseller. It was like, it was like you would walk in and it was like the cardboard uh like end cap or whatever that was just like it was like all Carmen CDs. Wow. And paraphernalia.

SPEAKER_03 7:50

And paraphernalia.

SPEAKER_01 7:52

Or whatever it is.

SPEAKER_00 7:53

Merch. Yeah, merch. Yeah, yeah. The word the word we're looking for. There's carbon paraphernalia. He was a hope dealer. That's so it.

SPEAKER_06 8:06

Okay, all right. So what a time to be alive. Okay, so Stephen Curtis Chapman, Carmen. Yeah. So you're being formed by all this stuff. You're in LiveWay Christian bookstore, you're running around.

SPEAKER_01 8:17

Yeah, being formed by it. Um, yeah, it I mean, from like early, I mean, like five-year-old me, you know, cassette Walkman in the back of my parents' car on Family Vicet, listening to like, you know, stuphen Curtis cassettes and all that. You see, you get it. Like you get the picture. Yeah. And just just singing my little heart out.

SPEAKER_06 8:40

He put he put this in your heart from like like since you were born. Like it wasn't something that yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

I mean, I mean, I was I was just was raised on it. You know, I mean, I was I was raised right, like that was but your parents weren't musicians or they are so yes, well they both are, yeah. So um, yeah, so my and my mom uh my mom played piano for years. Um yeah, and was like is like a fantastic piano player, and she has I think she's played in a long time, which kind of bums me out. Mom play piano again. Um but yeah, I grew up, I grew up watching it's so funny. My dad, my dad played saxophone and flute, like a couple different wind instruments, and they would do like like I grew up watching them do at this at this time in history, it was called like like like like offeratory specials, like songs, you know. It's like while they're like passing the offering plates, you know. Yes, okay, and it's like and it was and it was literally like like like my dad playing with my mom accompanying him like on the piano. Oh wow, and so yeah, so just the precious so sweet, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 9:47

So all right, so you watch that, it kind of runs in the family, and so then you're growing, but how where did the songwriting component come in? When did you fall in love with songwriting?

SPEAKER_01 9:59

Man, I'm trying to think. I I uh it's probably like middle school. I I really started falling in love with it. I think like John Mayer and stuff like that, like pop music of that variety at that time was kind of my gateway drug into that. It was like um, like I heard, you know, like like John Mayer's like any given Thursday, like the live thing, and I was like, it was like for a 90s kid raised on like CCM music, it's like you hear something like that and you're like, it can be this, whoa, like you know, yeah, and it's just kind of eye-opening, so in the coolest way, um right. So yeah, like stuff like that um kind of made me fall in love with songwriting, uh, and just the idea of it. Um it's funny. I was like, I was I was I was like hanging with a friend the other day and we were like talking about this randomly. We're like, like I think I always thought that like artists always wrote their own songs, like when I was growing up. Like too. Did y'all feel that way? Like I think so. Like in my brain, like I was like, like I would hear it, like I would, you know, and some of them did, but like most of them didn't. But I thought that was like that was the only way it happened, was just like it was like if you're singing it, you you you should have written it. You came up with this. Yes, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 11:16

Especially if they sing it as good as like Whitney Houston singing uh Dolly Parton's song. You know, I'm like, I thought Whitney wrote it.

SPEAKER_01 11:25

100%.

SPEAKER_06 11:25

Yeah, so I almost felt betrayed a little bit. Yeah, that's true. I was like by the artist. I felt like you tricked me.

SPEAKER_01 11:32

Yeah, isn't there a weird like deflating legend? Like you're like, you're like, you're not who I thought you were.

SPEAKER_06 11:36

You actually don't have you don't have anything to say, do you? You just want to say do you bob?

unknown 11:41

Do you ball?

SPEAKER_03 11:43

It's a little intense. It's a little intense. It's like way over the head.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

Um, but yeah, but like I but that pointing to your question, like I always thought that that's how it happened. And so it was like, um, you know, at the same time, again, around like middle school age and stuff, like into high school, it's like I was also like falling in love with like bands. Like it was like, you know, switchfoot, reliant, you know, all these, all these bands that I was just what a time. What a time the best, like golden era. Such a great time, yeah. And so like just fell in love with bands, and that was like the coolest thing. Like, that's what made me want to play guitar. It was like, um, and and I feel like guitar was really just a vehicle of to just like for a song to ride in. Like it was like, oh, that's so cool. It's like just chasing, you know, the feeling of like of like, oh well, I just learned how to play like Dare You to Move by Switchfoot. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it's just like chasing that high forever. Like, you know what I mean? Like of just like you know, of of the of the the the very like the very like isolated power behind that of just like of like is this a superpower? Like I can just do this, you know? Yes, um like you know, just little old me sitting in my bedroom, like you know, hitting hitting track on the on the CD player, you know. I'm like, I'm like, wait, how did he do it? What is it?

SPEAKER_06 13:07

You know, so you were picking that stuff out by ear, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:11

Like I had like like really bad, like preliminary like guitar, not like bad, like they were like proficiently great, but it was like, you know, I had like your standard, like, here's how to play scales, you know. And I was like, boring, you know. Um and I was like, this is a means to an end. This is a means to an end, yeah. Power chords, babe. So it was just like, I just want to strum my emotions out of my body.

SPEAKER_06 13:36

That's so that's such a good way to put it. That's very good. So you fall in love through all of that, like you're growing up with all of that, those musical influences. Yeah. And so then you start leading worship. Is that what happens? Like later.

SPEAKER_01 13:50

Yeah. I mean, I and I guess, and I'll I I I can kind of like backpedal a bit. Like, I mean, so yeah, like grew up obviously like being in church, like around church music. So it was like, you know, from church rat days to like, hey, get up, stop touching the drum set on a set, like, bro, it's Thursday afternoon. It's like, I know my dad maybe be here. Like, you know what I mean? To uh, you know, all the way to like singing in like you know, singing in like kids' choirs and you know, you name it, all that stuff. So just like around around music and around worship, um, you know, growing up and um was started singing in church at like a pretty young age, again, just involved in stuff and um and then was was like really fortunate to have you know to have like either like worship pastors or just like people who are a part of doing worship for my church. Um at a young age, just be like, hey, just come along and and and do it with us like like you clearly love this and are obsessed with this and that and you this kind of your thing, you know. Um so like let's just make space for you, like so just come along. And so that was that was kind of it. Um yeah, I mean started like leading worship when at probably like middle school age, like you know, youth group stuff.

SPEAKER_06 15:09

So that's in South Carolina, and then I know as you grew up you moved, I think for a time to Chicago, right? Yeah, so you were a worship pastor in Chicago for a while, yeah, yeah, for for a little over 10 years.

SPEAKER_01 15:21

Um so yeah, I and I landed in Chicago by way of school. So yeah, like went to college like an hour south of Chicago.

SPEAKER_07 15:30

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

And then um, yeah, as I was finishing college, my uh my it was like a couple months before I was like wrapping up school, like my senior year, and um my my parents were at the church in South Carolina that we had been at, you know, like 17 years or whatever. And um, and they were I remember getting a phone call and they were like, Yeah, we're transitioning out. Um, so we're gonna, you know, we're probably like two months. We're gonna be. I was like, that's cool. Well, I finished school in two months, so I gotta figure out where I'm going and what I'm gonna do, you know, because I can't move home because they're that's not gonna be where I think it is. Yeah. Um so you know, kind of had to like get my ducks in a row pretty quick. Um, and I remember uh, you know, coming home for that and and you know, having you know, my little little crisis of faith moment where I was just like, Yeah, I like man, this is this life gets real fast, which like all things considered is not that crazy. It's like that's pretty over dramatic. But but it feels like that. You know, yeah, but it's like you're living in the city. Yeah, yeah, it's just like typical crossroads of your life. You know, you're like, you're like, you're like, okay, cool, like figure out what you're gonna do. Um and so um yeah, I I just I prayed uh I I spent a couple weeks praying and was like um had friends in Chicago and um you know I had I have been spending a little bit of time in Chicago uh and had found a uh a church there um through kind of a crazy set of circumstances because I was coming out of this little like prodigal phase of my life and um and uh a friend dragged me into this church in Chicago and um and I was that was like as my parents were going through that transition and you know, so like you know, typical church hurt cliche, pastor's kid vibe where it just kind of questioning everything and um and and really like finding faith for myself, you know.

SPEAKER_04 17:27

Exactly, that's important.

SPEAKER_01 17:29

Yeah, and uh, you know, felt like a rough go at the time and um didn't really want to have anything to do with it. And a friend of mine um dragged me into this church one morning after we had been out all night.

SPEAKER_04 17:43

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

Um, and was like was like, hey, um dude, I th I think maybe we should just go to church. And I was I was just out of it just enough to be like, dude, whatever. Like, I mean, honestly, what am I gonna do? Like, you're my ride. Like, it's like, you know, it's like we like we like we went. We drove, we had driven from school, so we're like an hour away from from from campus, you know. Wow. Wow. And uh, and I was like, well, yeah, man. I mean, what I what else am I doing? Yeah, like I wrote up here with you. So and so I'm stuck. Yeah, I'm stuck. I'm like, I'm like, guess we're going to church, man.

SPEAKER_03 18:15

Oh, that's hilarious.

SPEAKER_01 18:16

Yeah, and so so he uh yeah, so we we we walk into this church and and you know, I was um so just like not in, you know, just like we're just like I was like, I was like, oh god, the band is terrible. This is you know, whatever. They were they weren't that bad, but it just I you know more annoyed than anything, you know, at that point, you know, when you're like out all night. So I went in and it's like it's like song two or three, I'm still rolling my eyes, you know, and um basically leaned over to my friend and was like, hey, I was like, I was like, dude, I'm just gonna go way out here. Like I'm like, this is whatever. And as I start to walk out, it I it literally it felt like the Holy Spirit, like, like you know whenever somebody like like like kicks the back of your knees and kind of is like gotcha. Yeah, and you're like oh in your knees, but like I sat down in the chair and distract and by the Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_06 19:15

Do you remember what song was going on? Or what there wasn't a song going on? Or it had nothing to do with the song.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

No, no, it was it was while the yeah, it was during the worship set. And yeah, and it was um it was this I think song two was like it's crazy to remember this. Song two was like was uh that John Mark McMillan song, How He Loves Us. How he loves us and then and then um the song where that happened where I was like where I just I I just melted um and the Holy Spirit got my shirt collar and uh uh was a Hills song tune, the oh it's like oh I'm running to UROMs, I'm running to your arms, which is uh I forgot what it was uh Forever Rain.

SPEAKER_06 19:54

Oh yes, what a throwback.

SPEAKER_01 19:56

Such a throwback. So good. Yeah. And I I mean I I came up on the Hill Song stuff and like the early United thing, you know, that was like it was like coded for that in youth group vibe. Um but but but yeah, so yeah, so it was that it was that song. Um and uh yeah, I just got I just radically encountered the Spirit of God. Um and uh that just flicked a domino. And it was uh and I remember uh just totally it just completely redefined. Like I like I was just like I was just like, alright Jesus, we're so bad. We're so bad. We're so bad. Um and uh yeah, and so um I remember going back uh you know like the next week, like I was like, I you know, I I remember calling my mom and was like was like mom, I think if I could find a church like this, I would I could maybe I could maybe see myself getting back into like to like being a part of worship again. Like you know what I mean, like that would be that could maybe be cool, but like don't get your hopes up, whatever, slow down. Don't get your hopes up, you know. Um just it's so ridiculous. Um but and then yeah, fast forward uh ten years later, I was there leading worship for 10 years.

SPEAKER_06 21:16

Wow, wow, that's so special. You just never know like worship teams and worship leaders, like when you're leading worship.

SPEAKER_01 21:23

That's it.

SPEAKER_06 21:24

What could be happening to people.

SPEAKER_01 21:26

That's it.

SPEAKER_06 21:27

And that's what we want.

SPEAKER_01 21:28

Yeah, that is, that is, and and the best part is that it doesn't have to be perfect.

SPEAKER_02 21:33

It doesn't have to be.

SPEAKER_01 21:34

That's like one of my favorite things about it, is like, you know, like like the church's the church is was was and still is um in this old like repurposed like comedy club. Wow like in Chicago.

SPEAKER_04 21:48

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 21:48

Like uh in the River West neighborhood. I love that thing. Yeah, yeah. It used to be this club called like Kaboom. Like it was like keep the name.

SPEAKER_00 21:58

Yeah, it was like what's the case? Yeah. Good morning, Kaboon.

SPEAKER_01 22:04

But yeah, but so like the merch would go off. You mean peripheral, right?

SPEAKER_03 22:10

Per vanilla.

SPEAKER_01 22:11

Correct. Thank you for that, actually. The correction. Yeah. Yeah. For Evercoin. Yeah. But um, but yeah, but I but I love I love that part. Like I love, I love that like the sound was kind of bad. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like I love that um that like uh you know it's like weird feet of 500 seat feet are like folding chairs and half of them are falling apart. Like you know what I mean? Like um and God still because it's just like meant Jesus will find you anywhere, anywhere, anytime, like anywhere. So exactly.

SPEAKER_06 22:43

Even when you were drugged to church, like you were, you know, let's just you know quite literally like drugged and drugged to church, you know. But God could meet you in any state, and it's just and we've seen that. God met you in a similar way.

SPEAKER_01 22:56

Absolutely, you know? Absolutely. I know that's why I've I've like I I love that that's basically all me and Tim have been doing is just like I just been been riding around in Tim's truck. Storytime. And I'm just like, can we give story time, Tim? Storytime, tell me every story.

SPEAKER_06 23:09

Tim's story time.

SPEAKER_01 23:10

I live for the story, I live for the TTT.

SPEAKER_06 23:12

That's real, man.

SPEAKER_08 23:13

It's like whoa, that's crazy. That is crazy. That's Tim's story. T T is crazy. Put it on the shirt.

SPEAKER_05 23:21

T S T. Okay, so TST. Yeah, T S T. Yeah, yeah. I can spell. So, but basically Yes, sorry.

SPEAKER_08 23:34

That's crazy though. Like when you think about it, like God just like it's like, no, sit down, let me show you, like, let me encounter you and show you what I made you for.

SPEAKER_01 23:42

Yeah. Uh yeah, I mean, I mean lit literally grab me by the shirt collar. And, you know, and it's I mean, it's like, you know, like I realized like so much of it was, you know, it's like we've been like, we've been like laughing, doing bits about like childhood trauma. You know, it's like, you know, but it's like, man, like I I realized I realized so much of it came from this, so much of like the hurt that I was carrying, or was was this perception of how how the Lord felt about me that was all performative. Like it was based on it was like that was my trauma. Was like, you know, or whatever. I lies, lies of the end of the day. Which is such like a trigger word. I hate using that word. It's like it's like I'm triggered by that trauma, you know. Um but like but you know, but in all sincerity, I mean it's like it's like you know, that was that was kind of the journey to real like the start of of I think like the healing process for me and was just like realizing like what the wound was um and realize and realizing that like I don't actually have to like like like cover it up or like run away from it or shy away from it. Exactly. Um and that and that the Lord actually wants to heal it, yeah. Because he wants to correct the perception of of of how I was I was seeing his heart towards me, which wasn't it. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 25:01

That's good, that's powerful.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

That's the best.

SPEAKER_06 25:04

Yeah, that changes everything too. And whenever the Lord actually heals us, we we're we're never the same. Like we truly can enjoy life and see and perceive life in a totally different way. And then if you're writing songs, especially for the church, and you and then you know, you want to make sure you get the one that is the bridegroom of his bride. We want to get his heart right if we're writing for the bride and the bridegroom. So it's like we can't misinterpret that when we're writing, and then also like if we're leading worship, we want to make sure we're leading from the place of like knowing how the Lord feels about us accurately, that we truly can't earn his love. Big time, we can't perform our way into his into his heart. He just loves us, he just he just loves us, and he's already chosen us, and he wants to heal us, and that changes everything. So God does this work in you. You become this worship leader, and you're you're you're now like 180. You and actually, your parents probably, I would imagine that since that conversation with your mom, they were probably praying for you that whole time.

SPEAKER_01 26:10

Oh, I mean, absolutely. Yeah, I'm I'm a product of a 3 a.m. prayer mom. Like, no question.

SPEAKER_03 26:16

Piano playing, 3 a.m. praying bars actually. That should be a song that you write for your mother. We got that, right?

SPEAKER_01 26:25

Um, but no, I am. I I mean, through and through, and I I I she doesn't need reminding, but I remind her of that all the time and how thankful I am. Um I love that. I love that. Yeah, um, yeah, I I I I just you know, last month or whatever, just sent her my you know, my annual, you know, novel book long text message on Mother's Day of just like of just like wouldn't be here, babe, weren't for you.

SPEAKER_03 26:51

You know, literally like in multiple ways.

SPEAKER_01 26:53

Yeah, literally, figuratively, spiritually, all of it. You know, but I mean, but it's true, yeah. I mean, yeah, my my mom what is that is that woman is just the 3 a.m. whether I'm at the house, out of the house, whatever, just wow, uh, and just and just praying. So, yeah, I'm a product of the covering of prayer for sure.

SPEAKER_06 27:14

For sure.

SPEAKER_01 27:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 27:15

So I want to get into some of the songwriting because that's like my favorite part. And how did you give not Jesus? Okay, Jesus is always anyway.

SPEAKER_01 27:26

So that's super cool about your life and everything. Um let's talk about music. Just joking. Not what I meant at all. I'm just joking.

SPEAKER_06 27:33

What I meant is some of my favorite part of the journey of your life, I think, is songwriting because you're so gifted. I don't think people realize how gifted you are in singing, playing, and songwriting. And so, like, because I've been in sessions with you where I've seen the way your brain works and how you just can like this, this, this way, this way. And it's so fascinating because not everybody processes that quickly and not everybody can verbalize the processing that quickly. And so it's so entertaining and it's also fun.

SPEAKER_01 28:06

It's about you know, yeah. I'm actually paying them to do studies in a lab to figure out what's wrong.

SPEAKER_03 28:12

No, what's right, what's right, and let's duplicate it. Can we can we all take pills?

SPEAKER_01 28:16

It's like all those like news or meals that go around there. It's like it's like I love what's wrong with you.

SPEAKER_06 28:20

I love what's wrong with you. Never change what's wrong with you.

SPEAKER_01 28:23

Oh man.

SPEAKER_06 28:23

And so, no, but for real, that's so cool. And so then you tap into that. How did you get with essential? Like, how did you move to Nashville? I want to know how did that part of your journey happen?

SPEAKER_01 28:33

Yeah. Um, I so I uh I got, I guess I got connected with essential, but like the whole just kind of this like Nashville part of my chapter of my life or whatever um really came through. So um, so I have so a really great, like long friend of mine, um, Josh Schiffman. So um he who is at Essential, like Essential Provident. Um and I have been friends for uh like 12 years, something like that. So met like in Chicago.

SPEAKER_07 29:09

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 29:10

Um like at that church. At the Kaboom Comedy Club. At the at Kaboom Church, yeah. I love that fire. Love that. It's so great. Yeah, yeah. Boy, we'll do stories later. I'm looking forward to that. Um, but but yeah, um, yeah, so we met at that church um and have just been friends for a long time, and it was like 2022. Um, and him and I had done have have like done a lot of music stuff together and like um written songs together and all these different things just in like Chicago days of our lives. Uh no partners days of our lives. Um, but you know, in that time in life. And so um, so yeah, uh he it was like he called me in 2022, kind of out of the blue, we were catching up, and um he had been uh out of Chicago for like a couple years, and I was still there, obviously. And um, yeah, he just called me out of the blue and was like, hey man, uh what are you doing? And I was like, like literally right now, or what? And he was like, and he was like, no, like in general. He's like, he's like, do you want to come write? Like like for a week, like in Nashville, uh like in a month or something like that. I was like, Yeah, that sounds fun. Like I just kind of thought it I in my brain, I was like, Oh, this is a fun, it's like creative spring break, you know what I mean? Like it was just like I was like, I was like, Yeah, dude, I love writing songs. Like that sounds like a good time. Let's let's go do it. Um, and so just went literally kind of for fun. Like, I mean, I just you know, um was like, oh, this is a cool opportunity, and but you know, like with anything with music and stuff, I mean it's like you guys know, it's like you you kind of just try to like just sort of neutralize yeah, the you know, the the up and f the up and down, the influx of like emotion of like, could this open a crazy door, like whatever? Yeah, yeah. Um and so I I really just went into it, was like, man, this would be really cool to like just like meet other songwriters and and yeah, you know, meet artists and you name it. And so um, yeah, came into I was I like came down for like five days to Nashville and um wrote my face off because as you guys know, it's like they just will put you and they'll be like, You're here for five days, let's do 15 rides, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_06 31:26

That sounds yeah, so fun, but also exhausting.

SPEAKER_01 31:29

Yeah, but like a nap now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You need a power nap, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and and so and go without eating as well.

SPEAKER_06 31:37

Like just skip lunch all together.

SPEAKER_01 31:39

Why do we skip lunch? Yeah, we always skip lunch.

SPEAKER_08 31:41

Whose idea was it to skip lunch?

SPEAKER_01 31:43

And it's unspoken. Honestly, it's unspoken. It's unspoken.

SPEAKER_06 31:46

Yeah, and then if you're a real one, you don't even bring it up.

SPEAKER_01 31:49

Exactly. Well, and I feel like I've found if you're a real one, you are a champion of the lunch. Okay, okay. You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, because I I have I have a couple friends that are like they're like like Bible about lunch. Like they're like, it's like 12 o'clock, it's just like we should go for a lunch walk. Yeah, and I've kind of love these like that. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 32:08

Yeah, like like she said, I've gone too many years without lunch.

SPEAKER_01 32:12

Yes, well's too short to not lunch. Why don't we do that anyway?

SPEAKER_06 32:18

So you go for a week, you know.

SPEAKER_01 32:20

So I go for a week, I go down, and um was like, cool, this is gonna be fun. It was a blast. I would and um it literally, as I'm like like leaving the Friday that I'm wrapping up, and I'm like getting in the car to drive back, and I'm just like like I remember like like stopping and like putting gas in the car and was just like kind of just you know, standing there, like thinking about it, just reflecting on the week. Like I was just you know, because when you it's it it's so fast paced and you're like you're you're meeting new people every day, which is like great for somebody like me because I'm ADHD to the max, if you can't tell. Um and like you know, so I'm just like standing there, like just kind of like taking it all in. I'm like, man, what just happened? I'm like, okay, and it felt like it felt like it I went from like black and white to like 4K color.

SPEAKER_02 33:10

Oh man.

SPEAKER_01 33:11

So it was like, and I was like, what is that? Like why like that's crazy. Like um, and I think that and that was kind of this the start to realizing like like the grace was shifting um and that God was kind of like moving the grace from one area to another. Um and so yeah, long story short, I I got I got back, they called me and they were like, hey, we'd love for you to come back and uh and do it again. And so I did I did that uh handfuls of times through that whole year through 2022.

SPEAKER_04 33:44

And wow.

SPEAKER_01 33:45

Um and then at the end of 22, um signed by the central and then uh and then we moved. Wow, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_06 33:53

That's amazing. And so then you've been full-time writing now for what what is that four years? Almost four years? Like that's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 34:02

That's incredible.

SPEAKER_06 34:03

That is so cool, and just to see that God was doing that, it's so incredible. Like, I I feel like when you truly find it in the right season what you're called to do, that's the best description I've ever heard. Is it goes from black to white to 4K color? It's like something awakens in you and you're like, whoa, this is what I'm created to do, and I enjoy it. Like it's yeah, it's a pleasure to wake up and do what God's called me to do. It's not supposed to be like horrible, it's supposed to be like even if there are challenges and the things you have to overcome, or even if you are tired or you have to like fight for lunch, but like you still enjoy it.

SPEAKER_01 34:42

Yes, you know, because it's like what you're created. You do, yeah, yeah, because you've been graced for it. Yes, yeah, yeah, you've been graced for it. And um, you know, or or you know, it's the assignment, or you name it. Yeah, and you know, and I think like um, I don't know, it just makes you think of like of like like growing up in like in like 90s church culture where it's like you know, it's like you're like you're like like youth group down at the altar, and you're like, you're like, if you can use anything, Lord, you can use me, you know, and you're like, you're like, but please don't make me a missionary and make me go to another country. You know what I mean? Like you're just like terrible. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like it's like you can use me for anything, just not that, please, God. You know, and it's just it's so funny because I I it it it is weirdly kind of almost like paradoxical, I think. Like, because like there's part of me that's like, well, I think God just wants to use the thing that like you're really stoked about because that makes him stoked. Right, you know.

SPEAKER_06 35:33

And that's what he put it in here. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:35

Like it's like it's like turns out he wants to use your gifting. Yeah, you know. Um, but then like there's an there's the other half of it, which is like which is like is like uh that will probably also involve like your Achilles heel. Um because that's how he gets glory out of it. Yeah, yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_06 35:54

What do you mean by that? Uh please accept that.

SPEAKER_01 35:56

So the yeah, and um i I mean it's it's the it's it's the it's it's Paul in 2 Corinthians 12. It's that thing. It's the thorn in the flesh thing. Where it's like, it's like, okay, cool. Um, you know, Paul has that thorn. I mean, I can go into whatever, but I mean you guys know. But it's like, you know, it's like Paul has a thorn in his flesh, and he's like, he asks the Lord three times to take it away. Yeah, and he's like, and and he God says no.

SPEAKER_02 36:21

Yeah, that's good.

SPEAKER_01 36:22

Like he tells Paul no. He's like, it's like uh-uh. And he's like, and and Paul's basically like, this is like debilitating, like whatever it is, like you know, scholars talk about they're like, it's a mental thing or it's a physical thing, or whatever, like whatever it is, it's debilitating. Yeah, like it's like preventing him, and he's like telling the Lord that. Like he's like, he's like, this is like getting in the way at this point. Like I can't do what I've what you're asking me to do, you know. Um, and the Lord's like, no, because grace is sufficient, you know. Um and he and and he says, because my power is made perfect in weakness.

SPEAKER_02 36:58

Right. Because if we could do it on our own, we wouldn't even lean on the Lord.

SPEAKER_01 37:02

Right, right. And and later in that passage, um, there are some translations where it like talks about um it talks where he he says, like, he says, like, because my weakness um is like a is like a portal for for the power of God. And so um so it's uh when I say it's twofold, that's what I mean by that. It's like like when it's like it's like, oh, it's your gifting, but it is also your Achilles heel. Right. Yes. You know, um, and usually those things uh I found at least in my life, it's like they tend to go hand in hand.

SPEAKER_06 37:32

Yeah, that's good.

SPEAKER_01 37:32

Um because God wants to get glory out of it.

SPEAKER_06 37:35

That's really encouraging. That's real. That's real right there. That's really good.

SPEAKER_01 37:38

And so, like for like how how it applies to my life, I guess, to help really drive the nail in. Um, you know, it's like it's like I grew up you know, growing up with music and like singing and all that stuff. It's like that was always what I thought. It was like like my dream was like, was like front a band for the rest of your life. You know, it was like that was the dream and never really had like songwriter on the bingo card. Like I loved writing songs, yeah. Um, but I it was always kind of a daunting thing, I think, for me, where like I like I loved like I loved like the the climbing the mountain aspect of it and the like you know the like the digging around until you find it. Like I love that part of songwriting, like I love the work of songwriting and the like we're not gonna and the not and the we're not gonna love that about you.

SPEAKER_03 38:27

It's my favorite.

SPEAKER_01 38:28

It's my favorite. I mean, I I will chase that every time. I love the feeling of like of like we're not gonna get it. We're not stopping it. And when that turns into oh we gotta it's the best. Who how could you not love it?

SPEAKER_06 38:42

You know that it is, dude. I remember when we wrote Gallup, that was like eight-hour day. Yeah, and you were down, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You were down to write for eight hours on one something.

SPEAKER_01 38:53

Oh get the shovel, get the shovels out. I'm like, dude, like I found my people. Yes, man.

SPEAKER_03 38:59

Awesome.

SPEAKER_01 39:00

Shouts out.

SPEAKER_03 39:01

Yeah, but that's it. Not everybody's like that.

SPEAKER_01 39:04

Totally, yeah. Well, I mean, and I think and then that's okay. Like, you know, like that's a that's okay. I mean, I think that like I think that's not everybody's called a songwriting, but those who are and so and even within songwriting, I think that it can look different for everybody, you know, you know, um, and it depends on the song you're writing in the room and all the things and and and the context, and you know, you're right, yada yada.

SPEAKER_06 39:24

Thank you for bringing that back into perspective.

SPEAKER_01 39:26

For sure, for sure. Please forgive me if I offended anybody. Yeah, we are not writing the commandments here. Like, um, but yeah, I was like, okay, yeah, clearly, clearly I am one man. Um, yeah, and uh, but yeah, I I think like um, you know, I I I think like from for me personally, again, going back to the to the the second Corinthians thing real quick, it's like as that ties in, it's like I never thought that wasn't how I sized up songwriting in my life.

SPEAKER_06 40:00

Like I wasn't like, oh yeah, I'm gonna be a professional songwriter and help other artists.

SPEAKER_01 40:04

Absolutely not. Yeah. It was like I was like, I love writing songs. Again, I'm it's probably just like that 10-year-old kid in me who's like who's like who's like every artist writes their own song, you know what I mean? So it's like I guess that's part of it. I gotta figure out how to do that, you know. Right.

SPEAKER_06 40:19

You were doing that because you thought that that's what had to be done, but your actual desire was to sing and lead like from the front of a band.

SPEAKER_01 40:27

Yeah, from a band. Because I I just love playing in a band. Oh, dude. I just love playing in a band. Because it's it's like what's more fun? It's like than just just being with a couple of your friends and being in a band. It's the best. You know what I mean? But so it was just it was a means to an end for that. It was like, well, we're gonna, you know, if you're in a band, you need songs, man. And and if it's probably gotta be you who writes them.

SPEAKER_06 40:52

You're going to be a songwriter for this season.

SPEAKER_01 40:54

And it turns out, little did he know. Talking about he me. You're narrating the story. Yeah, yeah. Little did he know. Yeah, it's like Will Farrell Stranger Than Fiction. You guys haven't seen that movie, fantastic movie. Fantastic. Yeah. Okay. But but that was that. That was the time of that. So I was like, I was like, you know, never on the bingo card to be like that's like all of our stories, dude. But that's what I mean.

SPEAKER_06 41:17

It's like all of our stories.

SPEAKER_01 41:19

Yeah, but that's what I'm saying, though. But that's and then that's that's the callback to 2 Corinthians. It's like, it's like, like the thought of that at the time would have been like, would have been like, oh dude, I can't do that. That's like, it's like, I mean, yeah, I can write songs, but like I'm I don't I don't feel qualified to be like a professional songwriter. Like, you know what I mean? You know what I mean? It's like I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I don't know if I had that in me. Oh yeah, you definitely, you definitely do. Yeah, they're like, okay, here I'm just showing up to do this thing.

SPEAKER_06 41:55

All those things, but like, um, and saying yes to the Lord when it looked differently than what you thought it was gonna look like.

SPEAKER_01 42:01

Big time. Yeah, that's huge. Big time.

SPEAKER_06 42:04

Because that's in my own life. Like, I thought things would look differently, but then the Lord He challenged me. Would you will will you would you build here? He actually asked me to stay in Charleston. Like I was gonna like I was ready like in college to go all different routes, totally. And but he asked me in college to stay here, and I didn't want to be in ministry, but then he asked me to get a ministry, and I was like, no, my parents were in ministry, so you know it's like the last thing we want to do is be in ministry when your parents were in ministry because you see all behind the curtain, you see all of the betrayal and people who hurt your parents.

SPEAKER_00 42:45

Oh, I know it.

SPEAKER_06 42:46

So it's like, why would I want to do that? And then I said yes, and so it's just like that's not really what I wanted, Lord. But it's like then when you say yes to the Lord, he gets you to the assignment that you're actually called for, and then you're like, it's like 4K colors, like, whoa, it can look like this.

SPEAKER_07 43:02

It's the best.

SPEAKER_06 43:04

It's like, but you just have to trust the process, you have to trust like when he's taking you a route that you didn't think would get you to where you are actually created to be.

SPEAKER_00 43:12

Correct.

SPEAKER_06 43:13

And now you're starting to sing more. Praise the Lord. Praise the Lord.

SPEAKER_00 43:18

Yeah, because it's so fun, you know.

SPEAKER_06 43:20

And when I first met you, all I knew was your songwriting. I didn't know the singing thing.

SPEAKER_00 43:26

Sure, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 43:27

So then, like a year and a half ago, I heard you sing for the first time. Like, what are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 43:33

Oh, yeah, at the camp. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 43:35

Yeah, he sang um the song that's gonna be on our uh Remind Me project, which is gonna be the feature track, Remind Me. He's singing the song, and we wrote it together with uh Mike C. And oh my gosh, I was like, You are literally like a lamp hiding under like a a um what's that scripture? A bowl. I'm like, Yeah, what get this out there now.

SPEAKER_00 43:57

The light of the world.

SPEAKER_06 43:59

I'm like, yeah. Like, what are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 44:01

Like, don't cover up your lampstand.

SPEAKER_06 44:03

Yeah, I'm like, this is like actually really talented. No, I what are we doing here?

SPEAKER_08 44:08

From one southern board to another, saying boy, sing boy.

SPEAKER_06 44:11

Yeah, so we're we're excited about that. That's coming out September 23rd. You gotta hear Nick's voice. Gorgeous. Yes. And the way he sings this song, you I think you come from that place of meaning it, you know? Yeah. You really mean what you're singing. And it hits different. It's different when someone sings it.

SPEAKER_01 44:28

That's the goal.

SPEAKER_06 44:29

So I'm excited that you're getting more into that. And I think the Lord is is gonna open that more. I think that that leading and singing is gonna be more and more because there's no way he gave you that time talent to hide it. No way. No way. He just was he he was just getting you in another way.

SPEAKER_00 44:47

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Jesus getting you in through the back door. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:51

Or the side door, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 44:52

Yeah, facts. Yeah. Skip the line moment. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, and like even that, like even the the skip line is so good. But but but even that, it's like, but it's like or i I don't feel like I skipped a line. Like, you know, you know what I mean? Like, like, you know, look, which I know we're just we're we're just but like but it's just funny to think about because I I I do like I don't I don't and I think I think um I feel like I feel like a lot of times the Lord is waiting until until you can actually be open-handed with something. Yeah, it's um which is like man, we'll just throw you for a loop in the best way. And it doesn't feel like it's the it's the best until you're on the other side of it where it because you don't this gonna sound weird, but it's like it's like you don't you don't care. Like you're like you're like, yeah, God, I don't care what we do. You just you just tell me where we're going.

SPEAKER_06 45:46

Yeah, you trust him. Yeah, it's in that moment where you're not trying to like cling on to control and like you're just like finally surrendered that God like brings all of these th opportunities and things, and it's just like because they don't have control over you. Yeah, because you're confident in who you are in Christ and like you know him.

SPEAKER_08 46:02

Yeah, it makes a whole difference. Yeah, he does it in a season or in a time that like he knows like okay, I can I can give this to you now. It always makes me think about like even when you don't necessarily recognize it, right? You know, yeah, but it makes me think about the parable of the talents because like he gave to each one according to their ability. Right, yeah, you know, and so the whole point is like you know, God has this this this view that we necessarily don't, right? Um, but like he knows like okay, this is this is the time, and then in faith you step into it and you start to realize that I can't do it without you, I need grace. Like I but there's there's been some kind of innate ability that he has put inside of each one of us to be able to answer and give him you know our stewardship and and ROI, you know, return on investment in a sense. You know what I mean? It's real. Yeah, that parable is so on. That parable is so on. Yeah, man. Yeah, it is it is that for you. And what's crazy about that too, is I was telling the guys in our group, uh everybody in our group a couple weeks ago, we were just talking about it, is like the reward for stewardship is more because they came back when when the master came back to the servants. It was like, oh, you turned this into this. Great, you can be entrusted with more. Yeah, that's you know, so it's good. That's really good. That's money, man.

SPEAKER_06 47:27

Well, we hope this conversation has been encouraging to you guys. Um, it has been encouraging to us, and so we are gonna move on to our next segment, which is praise or pass, where we're gonna get Nick to react to a viral video and see if he would praise it or pass it.

SPEAKER_07 47:40

Super sound. See, this is our guard. This is our guard. This is who it is. He loves us, and this is our guard, it's holding us, he stays us.

SPEAKER_06 47:57

That sounds so good. That has no reason to sound that good.

SPEAKER_01 48:01

No, listen, dude, dude, cajones are are unmatched and unrivaled.

SPEAKER_06 48:07

But they had that thing caged.

SPEAKER_01 48:10

Okay, yeah, sorry. So do I do my thing? That's uh that's a hard praise. That's a hard praise, that's a hard praise, dude. That's that's a hard praise, dude. I was raised on the Jesus drum in middle school, dude.

SPEAKER_05 48:20

Okay, it elaborates.

SPEAKER_01 48:21

AKA the djembe.

SPEAKER_06 48:23

Okay. Remember the djembe days?

SPEAKER_01 48:25

Did you guys that oh god, okay.

SPEAKER_06 48:27

No, that didn't make it down to the low country.

SPEAKER_08 48:29

It's the juggles. Only in the mid maybe.

SPEAKER_01 48:35

I don't know what y'all was doing up there in the midlands.

SPEAKER_08 48:38

Yeah, that was the midlands.

SPEAKER_01 48:40

That was the midlands. Not us. That was the mids. Apparently djembes were popping off in the midlands, dude. Uh yeah, yeah, yeah. The Jesus drum is as we coined it. Uh yeah, the djembe was just like a big like bongo that you had, like similar vibe to that. But and then I feel like the I feel like Cajon or the Rage and Cajun, as some would say. Kind of kind of dethroned the djembe as the youth group drum of the n of like the nation. For sure. You know what I mean? Taken over. Yeah, it's sort of like it's like the like it's like Toyota put out like like the neck the updated model. It's like the gen sticks of like of the youth group drum. Exactly. Of the Bible study circle drum. Okay, so yeah, but I'm I'm for sure praise on that.

SPEAKER_06 49:26

Okay, but I know so many people who are like so anti-drum cage, and now we're caging Cajomes.

SPEAKER_01 49:33

Oh, is that the question?

SPEAKER_06 49:34

Okay, is that just perspective?

SPEAKER_01 49:36

Just the general let's get into this though. I like this.

SPEAKER_06 49:38

Yeah, like the general thoughts. Like, first of all, I'm gonna pass on all the lights going on on every hit.

SPEAKER_01 49:45

I will say I'm not passing on on Bro's voice, though.

SPEAKER_05 49:50

Dude, the whole thing sounded good.

SPEAKER_01 49:52

Like an Owl City worship, yeah. That let's go like he could have literally attacked 10 million fireflies, Jesus. And I would have been in, I would have been, I would have been like, yeah. My dog.

SPEAKER_08 50:06

I've been like, yeah, take me there. Take me there.

SPEAKER_01 50:08

Like are we worshiping in a hot topic right now? I'm down. I'm like, I'm like, he's got that Spencer's gift. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_06 50:16

He really does. Like that sounded good. The cajon, I think, was mic'd and in the cage. Whatever setup they did, it's got them now.

SPEAKER_08 50:23

Like you can literally like plug them in. They're like electronic and like a mic. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:28

No, oh yeah, yeah, you're right.

SPEAKER_08 50:29

Yeah, that track is crazy.

SPEAKER_06 50:31

I'm just I have fire because I have questions about their setup. I have questions about like why is it caged and why is every light being changed? I do like that. Like, I'm so distracted.

SPEAKER_01 50:42

Do you think it do you think it's a youth group scenario?

SPEAKER_06 50:44

Okay, if it's a youth group scenario, I praise it. We need a little distraction.

SPEAKER_01 50:48

Yeah, then we're in. We're in on youth group scenario. Okay, so where are you are you in if that 8 30 Sunday morning you walk in?

SPEAKER_06 50:55

I'm like, let's just unplug the lights. You like let's just unplug the lights. Keep the cajon in the like however they had that sounding so good, let's keep it.

SPEAKER_08 51:02

Well, I mean, like if you think about like it looked like a pretty big building, so the acoustics in there were probably like crazy. I'm thinking the ceilings looked hot. Yeah, they did like right, like real, like like chapel-ish type stuff.

SPEAKER_01 51:14

Yeah, if that is youth, that's better than any youth through my was ever.

SPEAKER_05 51:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 51:20

So I'm in. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 51:22

Without that cage, that thing might we may not have ever heard the guitar.

SPEAKER_05 51:25

That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 51:26

But I I do I do love that they caged him though.

SPEAKER_05 51:28

I know, like that is crazy.

SPEAKER_00 51:30

They're like, ah, this is a little aggressive. It's a little it's just he's beating on this box, guys.

SPEAKER_01 51:37

We just gotta it's just we don't want to hear it that close. We want to be able to control it. There you go. Dude, but like I feel like it would be one of those things where like if they were like, like, it's such like an insurance policy. Like they're like, like, yeah, well, in case we don't want drums in at that point, like like sound guy can just be like, boom. Imagine if it's a real drum set, you'd still hear it. But that I actually don't think you would hear him. Yeah, not in one of those. Quick him out of the house. Yeah, not in one of those.

SPEAKER_00 52:06

He'd be like, just silently in there, just just snapping his heart out.

SPEAKER_01 52:14

Yeah, he's just vibing in there, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:17

But you don't hear it.

SPEAKER_01 52:18

Yeah, man. You can't hear him.

SPEAKER_03 52:20

Yeah, that's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 52:21

Honestly, I would I'd be I'd be like, can I go in there with him? That sounds like a good time. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_06 52:28

Okay, so we we praise it. We we have questions.

SPEAKER_01 52:31

I'm praising, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 52:31

Yeah, I I have I just want to know. Like, I just want to know.

SPEAKER_01 52:35

I'm praising because anybody who's watching, work with what you got.

SPEAKER_06 52:40

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 52:41

Take what you got and work it. Kaboom, baby.

SPEAKER_06 52:45

Kaboom, like you do.

SPEAKER_01 52:46

That just becomes like catchphrase.

SPEAKER_06 52:48

Don't don't just try to be everybody else. Like, work with what you got.

SPEAKER_01 52:52

You got that kaboom guy. Yes, work with what you got, and where you got it.

SPEAKER_06 52:56

And if it's in a cathedral, if it's a cajon, if it's a drum cage, if it's like 20 lights going on at the same time, whatever you got, work with it.

SPEAKER_00 53:04

Everything rip. Worship the Lord.

SPEAKER_06 53:07

Be genuine about it. Yeah, and they made it sound the best they could. That sounded good.

SPEAKER_01 53:11

Yeah, yeah. It's joy-coded.

SPEAKER_06 53:14

It's joy-coded.

SPEAKER_01 53:15

It's joy-coded.

SPEAKER_06 53:16

So have fun.

SPEAKER_01 53:18

Praise.

SPEAKER_06 53:19

Praise. All right. Next segment, we're gonna move into frequently asked questions. We're gonna ask him some of the questions that you guys had about songwriting in previous discussions. All right. So, our frequently asked question today, we want to get into songwriting. And some of the questions are, how do you prepare for songwriting? Like you're walking into all of these rooms, okay? And so you're working as sometimes a top liner supporting artist. Sometimes I think you're the track writer. Yeah, sometimes, yeah. So then what exactly do you do to prepare? Do you prepare at all? Do you ever come with ideas? Do you rely on the artist to come with ideas? And if that doesn't happen, do you quickly step in?

SPEAKER_01 54:04

Uh man. Um first off, I will try to feel qualified to answer this. But maybe every songwriter would feel like this. I don't know. Um, but I man, it's such an interesting question because I feel like like to just answer it personally for me, like um I feel like this probably sounds very irresponsible, so I will I will qualify it on the back end. Um I feel like I I typically won't do much to like prepare like like like day of necessarily, you know, like like like I'm a dad, I have two kids, you know, like so I'm usually like helping my wife get you know get them ready, get them off to school. You know, it's just parent stuff, you know what I mean? And so um a lot of preparation is usually just like on the car ride there. And so um what does that look like?

SPEAKER_06 55:03

What is prep? Because sometimes some songwriters say their whole life is the prep. Like they just stayed.

SPEAKER_01 55:09

And I think I'm in that, I think I'm in that category. I think you're like constantly kind of gathering things, like all the time. Um but truthfully, like I um, especially when I'm when I'm I'm like writing for other people with other people, like in co-writing, um, you know, I I don't like I have ideas that I will bring in and I'll just I'll bank them as I get them from life and you know, yeah, um, you know, constant just absolute catastrophe hurricane of like a notes app, you know, um classic. Yeah. Um, you know, so like I have that, um, but I I think I'm more of the the DNA or just the way that I'm coded, like and how I view co-writing, um, is that I think I think that like the again, and this is one this is one man's perspective, but I like I'm of the the the point of view that like if I'm coming in to co-write with somebody um I'm just coming in to serve them. And so um it's like the passage like like like they that bless others, they themselves will be blessed, like idea. Um so and it's like it's like uh which that really just means to unpack that for a second, that just means like like as you serve others, like you will be filled. Yeah. Like like like like your heart will be filled, right? You know, XYZ. Um and so that's kind of like I guess like the ethos like that that I take is just like man, I'm there to like to like like lift somebody else's arms up and like lift the artist's arms up, like whoever that is, or whoever we're writing for.

SPEAKER_07 56:47

That's good.

SPEAKER_01 56:48

Um because at the end of the day, it's like I think the best songs, and this points to like to like artists bringing in songs, it's like I I want that to happen. Like, like, like because I think um really incredible artistry or some of the most authentic artistry um is is just like like a heart sincerely poured out, like whatever that is. Yeah. And so like while I could come in with like a fun, clever, you know, concept for a song, it's like for as many times as they've been used like in a room, they've also haven't been, you know. And so to just like dispel any mysticism around it where you know, um, where it's like where it's like, oh the job is to be the songwriter and and and come in and have the big idea, you know. I mean, there is a place for that for sure. Um but but sometimes that's not the case.

SPEAKER_04 57:46

Sometimes it's just letting someone else have that supporting it.

SPEAKER_01 57:49

And and I would say like my favorite uh uh rights are those. Um is because I'm I'm I'm I I really love like helping like dig deep into somebody who's like who's like and and really like championing what they have to say. Um and what the Lord's put on their heart, you know. That's really good. Um yeah, so I you know, in terms of like prep, I I feel like it it usually just ends up like looking like heart posture for me where I'm just like I'm like cool man, like how do how do I really like come in and like be leaned in and be present with somebody? Um and if they don't know what they want to say, like yeah, I've got uh a notes app full of ideas, but but like what if we just talked for 45 minutes and we just talked about life and what the Lord's doing in you and you know, I bet we'd find something to write a song about. Yeah, yeah. That's good, that's really good. And so I um yeah, for as uh unprofessional or dysfunctional as that sounds, um it doesn't it's great. Yeah, I'm I'm probably the uh the unefficient rebel rouser again, where it's just like it's like just yeah man, pull out the shovels. Let's like let's exactly let's let's let's let's dig until we find something or let's like let's let's feel around until we find a window to heaven. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's good.

SPEAKER_06 59:14

And I feel like too when you go in open-handed like that, not coming with an agenda or stuff, like you're leaving room for the Holy Spirit to really partner with you in the moment. Like, I think if we live our lives receiving, like as a songwriter, thinking like a songwriter, capturing ideas, crafting, we're working on our craft, but then we go into sessions open-handed, like, Holy Spirit, what do you want to do? Yeah, he could do crazy stuff. Oh, absolutely, yeah. Crazy stuff. And you can you can write songs that was not even in your agenda, but it was on the heart of God. And and so it's it's really incredible. And so um the one of the other questions people had was um, how do you grow your craft as a songwriter? What are practical things you would say to a new songwriter to get where they want to be in a professional level?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:03

Write a million songs. A million. Yeah, I mean not necessarily that number, but you know, but but but write but but write songs that you can write write as many songs as you can.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:15

And show people. Show people your songs, show other people, like and don't just show your sister and your dad and you know and your best friend who are like, we're proud of you no matter what. Like show, you know what I mean, which is which is great, right? You know, like, but um, like yeah, like find find other songwriters, like find um other people to get around that you can just show them and just say, hey, like, you know, and I would say like whenever you whenever you show them to like um you know, like think through and even like have like questions be like like hey, do you think like like what do you think about this specific line? Like get specific, you know? Like um and I think the more that you can like seek like um just refinement like that or like critique like that, yeah, um, you know, in a healthy way, that's really good. With people that you trust, yeah, um, and people um yeah, just that you trust. Like I think that you that's that's a big part of growth. Um but uh and then I think the other side of it is like is like just realizing that it and knowing that it's like a muscle that has to be worked and maintained. Um you know, like part of like the life component that we're talking about of just like um kind of I guess I would phrase it as like constantly having your antennas up. That's good, you know, of like of like cool, like well at any, you know, it's like man, there's there's there's probably a hundred song concepts flying around us in a day. And and a lot of it comes down to like to like to like are we aware enough to grab them and bag them, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_06 1:01:49

Yeah, and are we stewarding it fast enough because then we've seen on the next it someone else will someone else will do it. Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:58

You know, if you don't grab that idea, yes, it will be else will do it. Somebody else will do it. Um and and I'm probably even like less of like less of like uh uh a pusher of like the that like competitive idea of it where it's like like I do think that's real because I do think that like I do think that like you know like the Lord like will will will speak to his church like as a whole. So then like there's like similar concept. It's like if you ever notice where it's like where it's like where it's like four or five worship songs all talking about the same thing come out at the same time.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:29

And you're like you're like what like and they don't even know each other and none of the writers know each other.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:34

Yeah, so that's real, you know. That's definitely real. Um but like I think that um I think that like even before all of that, it's it's more like it's more like like I've just I've I've just found Jesus so many times like like like just for my life in in the like the chase and the the the hide and seek game of like what is it where is it? Like like like where's the word? That's good, you know what I mean? Like in in the creative process, you know, um and where it's to the point where it's like then it feels like it's not even about the song, it's not even about the song, it's about finding it. Oh there you are, Jesus. You know what I mean? It's the best. And so it's like um, yeah, I so I I think it's more that's more the motive behind it, is like, is like you know, if you just live with your antennas up every day, exactly, and you're just like, okay, cool, like like what are you trying to get something to me through this, or like, or or hey, or you know, it's like man, I've you you know, it's like I have an eight-year-old and a five-year-old, and it's like we'll get hit with just like heavy revy stuff out of nowhere, just like sitting in the backyard talking to them, sitting on the trampoline, like you know what I mean. And it's just like whether they're asking me questions about stuff or or they'll just do something and like interact, and I'm just like playing with them, and it's like wow, I mean, I encounter the Holy Spirit just as much there as I do in a in church on a Sunday. Like, you know what I mean? It's all the same. Exactly. Um, and so I think that if you just have your antennas up, um you know, you'll be surprised at at how how kind of constantly like simmering you are. Yeah, you know, um, where just at at any point when it's like you just start talking to somebody else and then and then you're like the burner's already on. So then like as as you're talking to them, you're you know, it's like that's good. Well, I'm sure there's a song in you. Exactly.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:29

You know exactly. That's so good.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:30

Anyway, I don't know if that's helpful.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:31

That was extremely helpful. And we hope you guys got so much from that because that that's there's so much to glean from that. And so thank you so much, Nick, for taking the time to come and be a part of this podcast. You are a gym. And so be looking out for remind me coming out September 23rd. And uh, we're excited about that. And we hope you tune into the next episode of Protect the Altar Podcast.