Most People Think They’re Organized… Until This Happens | Estate Planning Reality Check

What happens when a loved one passes away—and you realize nothing is actually organized?

In this episode of Aging, Healthcare, and Everything in Between with Stephanie Pogue, Adam Zuckerman (founder of Buried in Work) shares a powerful personal story that led him to build a system helping families navigate estate planning, organization, and end-of-life decisions.

After losing his father unexpectedly, Adam discovered a hard truth: having documents isn’t the same as being organized.

This conversation breaks down the critical difference between estate planning and estate organization—and why that gap creates stress, confusion, and hundreds of hours of extra work for families.

👉 In this episode, you’ll learn:
• Why estate planning alone isn’t enough
• The biggest mistakes families make after a loss
• How disorganization can cost time, money, and peace of mind
• The 10 essential items everyone should have in place
• How to start the conversation with parents (without it feeling uncomfortable)
• Simple steps to get organized starting today

With over 570 hours spent on average managing an estate, preparation isn’t optional—it’s a gift to your family.

If you want to reduce stress, avoid common mistakes, and make life easier for your loved ones, this is a must-watch conversation.

https://buriedinwork.com/

#EstatePlanning #AgingWell #EndOfLifePlanning #FinancialPlanning #FamilyPlanning #RetirementPlanning #LegacyPlanning #PersonalFinance #LifePlanning #Organization #Adulting #PodcastClips #WealthPlanning #AgingParents #SmartPlanning

Watch the full version here. 

https://youtu.be/_067WpzJEDc

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:10

Welcome back to Aging, Healthcare, and Everything in Between, where we're talking about the things that help families live well through retirement. And I'm your host, Stephanie Pogue. Now today I'm talking to Adam Zuckerman. He's the founder of Buried in Work. And his company helps people simplify not only estate planning, but also estate organization and all of those end-of-life tasks. So thank you for talking to me today.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

Stephanie, it's great to be here. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

Yeah. So I understand that you have a really personal reason for starting this company. Um, but you also have just a wealth of professional expertise. And I think that's why what you've created here is a little bit different than what I've seen in the market out there. And that's why I wanted to talk to you more. So first tell me your why. Why is this your mission right now?

SPEAKER_00 1:00

It's interesting. I've done a lot in my career. I'm an attorney, I have an MBA, I worked in media, I've worked in clean energy, selling nuclear power plants, a whole host of things. And by far, buried in work has been the most fulfilling and rewarding career that I've had yet. Um I didn't expect to be in the industry. I think that there's two types of people that end up in death tech as people characterize it sometimes. The first is someone who's three years old, five years old, and they just know this is what I want to do for the rest of my life. I want to, I want to get in the industry somehow. They might not actually know it, but they feel it. And the second group of people is closer to what I fall into. It's those that something happens in their life and they realize it's a calling. Uh, for me personally, my dad was working at uh at my house in the basement with me. We were building a cabinet, and he walked up the stairs and he said, I'm tired. And when he says he's tired, it was different than most people. If you say you're tired, if I say I'm tired, I have some coffee, I go for a walk, I take a nap. When he says it, he has to go to the hospital. And the reason why is six and a half years earlier, he was actually diagnosed with leukemia. So he goes to the hospital. Um, he has some tests on Tuesday, they check him in on Thursday, and he died 12 days later, super quick. It sounds really sad, but it's actually a good story in some ways. I donated Bodemaro to him uh when he was first diagnosed, so I got to joke that he kept me around for spare parts. But things accelerated very quickly at the end, and like so many people in America, and 10 to 12,000 people turn 65 every single day right now. So, with so many people going through what I was about to go through, but yet it was the first time that my dad died, kind of a new experience for me. I started taking really detailed notes. I'm the attorney in the family, uh, my mom is still around, I was executor on his will. So I started helping my mom transitioning all the assets and the estate and making sure that everything was buttoned up. And what I realized was that there was a difference between thinking you are organized and actually being organized. So I took really detailed notes. On this date, at this time, I called this person, I followed up with this template for this reason. And when I showed my mom's financial advisor what I had done, she said it was the most thorough transition she'd ever seen. Next thing I knew, I built a website. I thought a few people would find helpful. I thought it would just be resources and I'd be done with it. In a week, we had over 10,000 visits to the site, and it has grown significantly since then. So now it's turned into a full-time career for me.

SPEAKER_01 3:25

Yeah. I I I believe that. I, you know, it's you think you're organized, you think you got it covered, your parents have told you everything, but not even close.

unknown 3:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

It's it's funny. You we talk to people often, and one of the things that we hear over and over and over is my dad told me that I know that the files are in the desk, right? The key to the safe. That's nice, but that's not being organized.

SPEAKER_01 3:48

Yes. Yes. Well, okay, so tell me, I know you know, I looked at your website, obviously, and I've ordered a clear kit too, so we're gonna talk about those in a little bit. Um, but one of the things that you make a point of is that estate planning is different than a state organization. What do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_00 4:06

All right, so estate planning for comprehensive estate planning, most people associate that with documents. I need a will, I need a trust, maybe if my family requires that, I have to have advanced directives. As life progresses, maybe you need a DNR, do not resuscitate directive, a post or a most if you're actually quite ill, powers of attorney to make sure that people can act on your behalf, a HIPAA authorization that gives people access to your medical records, you know, designations on your bank accounts, a digital legacy plan now, because so much of our lives are digital, a key contact log so people know who to contact in the event something happens to you. But the thing is, is as you start working through those documents, and those are eight of the ten things that we think that everybody should have, if it's not in one place, if your family members don't know how to access it when they need it, it's as if those documents don't exist at all. And it's a real big problem in the United States. Right now, it takes on average 570 hours to administer an estate. And a lot of that is due to the fact that people are searching for for items and for documents and information that you could have put together very easily. Now, there's an analogy that I love to love to give. And let's say hypothetically that you and I are having dinner together, Stephanie. So you're gonna come over to my house and I've prepped everything. We're gonna have Italian, maybe. I don't know if you like that. We've got a bottle of wine, we've got all the ingredients on the counter, we got some music playing, the oven's preheated, it's just gonna be a nice way to cook. But if you show up at my house and there's a note on the door that says, hey, I'm running late, figure it out. You know, the food's in the house, you don't know what I wanted to make. You don't know what I wanted to have happen. You don't know that the pasta is actually downstairs behind a locked door for some reason. And that's what we're setting up so many millions of Americans for is to make dinner without having a recipe, without even having the ingredients, and they'll figure it out, but it's a really difficult, confusing time to do it.

SPEAKER_01 6:01

It absolutely is. I know when my dad passed away, I had talked to him for years about we need an estate plan, we need a you need a trust, you need a will. He had businesses and properties and all kinds of things, and he wouldn't do it. He absolutely wouldn't do it. And it finally came out one day that he thought having an estate plan meant he was planning to die, and he didn't want to do that. So, um so I I get what you're saying, where he had all the information, he thought he was prepared, he had told me, do this if I pass, do this, all the information's in there, but it it just doesn't work that way. What are some of the issues that you see families run into? Not only when someone passes away, but you know, if their family member gets sick and they're in the hospital for a long time, what do you see?

SPEAKER_00 6:48

There's a lot of different things, and the the saying is you're unique just like everybody else. So it's very specific to your individual circumstance. So I'll give a few stories. Somebody called me up and they said, Hey, I got divorced, I have a will, I made a new one, I took my wife out of it, I'm good to go, right? And the answer is, well, did you update all of your payable and death beneficiaries? And he goes, What do I mean? Well, if you have an old IRA, if you have an insurance policy, if you have a bank account, that the payable on death designation is to your ex-wife, which it still was. If you got hit by a bus and something happened to you, that means that your ex-wife would still get all of those funds, or vice versa. And the reason why is because that's a contractual relationship with your bank. It's a very easy thing to update, but something that is oftentimes overlooked. Another thing that we found is that when someone dies, if you're married, oftentimes there's a single individual in the household that is in charge of finances. So they take out all of the credit cards. So, Stephanie, let's say you and I are married, you're the primary financial person in the house, you get hit by a bus this time. I'm really sorry, I'm gonna miss you. If all the credit cards are in your name, as soon as the credit card companies find out that you passed away, I'm going to lose all the access to my credit as well. So, how do I pay for things if I'm used to living in this new society which we're evolving into where cash isn't used as often? Then there's the issues of what do you actually need? What do you want? So most people think of end of life being I'm going to have a funeral, or I'm going to be cremated, or I'm going to have a funeral, that's after I'm cremated, a memorial service, a celebration of life. But they don't realize that there are so many more options available today. Cremation isn't just flame cremation, it's also water cremation or alkaline hydrolysis. You can have ashes made into vinyl records, coral reefs shot into space, memorial forests. So when you start looking at everything holistically, it's not I'm planning to die. It's I'm planning to make a lot of choices that make my life a lot easier and makes my loved ones a lot easier or lives a lot easier. And that's actually leaving a gift of organization that, quite frankly, your family will thank you for.

SPEAKER_01 8:57

I agree with that. But how do we then so how do we talk to our parents about that? How do we say, well, I really need you to be organized? I don't want to make these decisions without you know, without you.

SPEAKER_00 9:09

Yeah. So the the thing is first, you can sit down your parents, and oftentimes you'd be surprised. Family members and loved ones want to have these conversations, but they don't know how to start. So there's an easy way you can start. We've got a quiz on our website, actually. It's free. It takes about six minutes, seven minutes to fill out, and it'll give you a score, one to ten. How organized are you if you pass away or if somebody in your life, like your parents, passes away? Take that score and say, hey mom, hey dad, so-and-so passed this, or I found this quiz. I took it, I've got a score seven. I think we should talk about X, Y, and Z. Blame it on buried and work, right? The other thing is, hey, mom, dad, I don't want to talk about what you have, but I want to talk about what you want. So if you reframe that conversation in a conversation of what do they want, what their wishes are, you want to make sure that they're actually in a position where their questions and needs are answered, they're gonna be much more receptive. When things tend to go south, is when people frame it as a, hey, you're gonna die. Can I have your stuff? What do you want to have happen to this? And focus on what you want to have happen to them first or what they want to have happen to them, and then the conversations can evolve from them.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

That's great advice. I also like the idea of that quiz because it opens up the conversation. I did this for myself. Hey, where do you stand? Kind of a thing. That's a great idea.

SPEAKER_00 10:30

Another way that people oftentimes bring this up is just watch the news. You know, I there are more famous people dying every single day, not because more people are dying per se, well, they technically are by numbers, but it's because there are just more famous people over time, right? And if you see somebody that your parents might relate to in the news that passed away, the entry is, hey, did you see the news about this? I've been thinking about this a lot. Can we have a conversation? And boom, there it goes.

SPEAKER_01 10:57

There you go. That's a great idea, too. Do you find that people so I work with people over 65 every day, right? This I do Medicare planning, long-term care planning, and I and they're even the retirement process is complicated and confusing, trying to figure out is my money gonna last? And you know, do I need long-term care? All of those things. And when we by the time you get to estate planning, people are like, oh gosh, that's that's too much. I'll just deal with that later. Do you find that most people this is overwhelming for most people?

SPEAKER_00 11:27

I I think it is, and there's a lot of information. So we we have a product that you mentioned earlier called the Clear Kit. Uh it's an acronym for comprehensive legacy estate administration resource kit, right? Where you put all of your information, it recaps what you have. And there's 54 sections in the expanded version. That's a lot of information and it's intimidating. But the thing is, people need to understand that you're not trying to sit down and get through everything at once. And the reason why is because what happens to you today is going to be different from what happens to you 10 years from now, or your life might be in a different spot. So, based on where you are in your life, it allows you to then make choices of I want to organize this information today versus tomorrow. So when I'm 25 years old, I'm probably not going to be looking into a life insurance policy, right? I'm not going to be thinking about Medicare planning or a Medicare trust to protect assets. But as I get older, if I've been organized, I'm updating what I have and it gets a lot easier. The problem, the challenge often comes when people haven't done anything and they're playing catch-up. But if you start now, and the best time to start if you haven't started yet, is today, is to start your plan and then evolve it over time. And when you need help, you go to an expert like yourself, like others, that can help you understand what you need to do and then take the actions and put your process in place.

SPEAKER_01 12:52

Still sounds like a lot. Is there one? Where do you where do you start? Just just start where you are, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 12:58

Yeah, for for us, the first thing that we do is say get your basic information in order. So we have the 10 essentials that we think everybody should start with. And I mentioned eight of them earlier. It's the estate planning glossary that is, if you're unfamiliar, just educate yourself first. Because if you don't know the basics, you're going to have a lot of trouble. We've got something called the estate planning pyramid, which walks you through this. The second thing is having a last will and testament. Third thing is your advanced directives. Those make it so in the event you can't advocate for yourself, somebody can make those decisions for you. So you're in the hospital, you can't speak. Very easy to set together. Um, there's free versions, you can work with an estate planning attorney as well. Your powers of attorney, so designating legally who can act on your behalf. So that can be financial or medical, and there's different conditions. Your HIPAA authorization, your beneficiary designations are six. Your seventh is your digital legacy plan. What do you want to have happen to your emails, to your text messages, to your accounts? How do people access them? And one of the challenges there is oftentimes people think about passwords. I'm gonna write down all my passwords. Passwords are great five, 10 years ago, but now we're going to access. And what I mean by that is if you think about how you log into your computer, log into your phone, now it's fingerprint, now it's facial recognition, now it's something called pass keys. And the passwords that were important before are going to become increasingly less important. So you need to make sure that in systems that you're using, like your bank accounts, like your financial accounts, like Facebook, like LinkedIn, if you use those, that you're designating the individual that can act in the event something were to happen to you. And we've got information on that on our website. Sorry, go ahead. No, the the A thing is the key contact log, final resting place instructions. That's something that most people should have, but quite frankly, they missed the ball. Uh that writes down this is what I want to have actually happen to me. And then the tenth thing is your letter of instruction. So here's the cheat sheet to my life. So in the event that I can't talk or I'm going to disappear, write down what you think would help your most important loved one, pick up where you left off. And then from there you can start filling in the gaps. So if you want to find your residence history for unclaimed property, you can do that. But the the way that we organize it in the clear kit is we give you all the sections. In the beginning of each section, it tells you this is why this section is important. It tells you how to use the information, it helps you find the information if you don't have it. So you educate yourself. And then on the flip side of that tab, it says, This is what's going to happen with that information after something happens to you. And then there's worksheets that you just fill out really easily, digitally or handwritten. Um, and you just go through and fill out the sections that you feel comfortable filling out. What you have today will be better than what you had yesterday. And eventually, when you decide to sit down and put a lot of effort into it, that's even better for your loved ones.

SPEAKER_01 15:49

That's all really good advice. I think those are things you don't think about, especially the passwords and um, you know, how to get into your computer, your lap, you know, your e um emails, cell phone, all that stuff. People don't even think about that stuff right now.

SPEAKER_00 16:03

Yeah. And it it's funny. So I was sitting on a plane a few months ago, and there was a woman next to me, and we just started talking. I was going through one of it's actually editing a book that's coming out called No Loose Ends. And she asked me why I was writing, you know, what I was doing. We started talking. Oh, I found a paradigm work. This is what I do. And she told me two really funny stories. At her mom's funeral, the photo on the poster was her younger sister because they didn't realize that somebody sent the wrong photo in. And oftentimes people send in a photo on a memorial board that is indicative of what the person used to look like. And the person printing it has no idea who it is. So they walk in, it's not her mom on the board, it's her sister. It starts raining, and her mom said in passing one time, I really want my coffin, uh, my casket, to be pulled by Clydesdales to my graveside. Nobody knew if she was serious, but the same sister that was on the photo insisted, Mom said it, I want to hold true to it. So it was pouring that day, and the Clydesdales pulling it were rippling up the cemetery afterwards. The groundskeepers were getting really mad. And it would have been really easy if she had final resting place instructions that said, I actually want Clydesdale or not, or use this picture, yada yada yada, or I want this person to be a pallbearer, I want this person to speak. You can always change that information, but writing it down in a place that your family members can actually refer back to, it just makes things so much easier on everybody.

SPEAKER_01 17:39

Takes the stress and pressure off the kids.

SPEAKER_00 17:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

Yeah. You know, the other thing I thought that was interesting about, and you mentioned it about your kit. And these are nice kits. I mean, this is not these are nice. These are not just little file folders that we're all putting together ourselves at home. These are nice. But I also noticed that you have a USB drive, all kinds of information. So you can keep that stuff digitally, or you can keep a paper, you can give it to every family member if you need to. I thought that's a good idea.

SPEAKER_00 18:12

Thank you. And the reality is my handwriting is terrible, and I don't want to sit and fill out all the forms. So one of the things that we did is we made it so every clear kit comes with all of the worksheets that you fill out on USB drive in PDFs. So you can print and handwrite copies, you can type the answers if you want. What we don't have is them online because the information that you're collecting is so important that we want to make sure that it stays hyperlocal to where you are.

SPEAKER_01 18:44

We've you've got this ATV over there, and you've got this rental property, or you know, whatever it is, all the keys are right there. Safe deposit boxes. I know a lot of my clients still have those, and who knows where that key might be.

unknown 18:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:57

So the the the kit itself, the case, um, if you have a cigarette lighter or you have a kitchen blowtorch for a creme boulet, go home and shoot it at it. It's fire resistant, it's water resistant, it has locks on the side, three different binders in the expanded kit per topic, a key storage system, the USB drive, a getting started booklet. We want to make this so unbelievably easy that if you have your will, if you have your trust, if you have titles, everything can be stored in one place in a really easy case that you can carry anywhere with you. And it shouldn't feel like you're doing homework.

SPEAKER_01 19:32

Well, I hope that that's true.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

Um yeah. Thank you. I I think we talked to a lot of estate attorneys, and we just had one on um recently, you know, and he goes through all the things that we need, all the documents, and that's important. But again, where how do you where do you find all those things? So keeping it in something like this is perfect.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

Yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 19:54

Not just plan.

SPEAKER_00 19:56

Yeah, that's right. And and it's funny, so we're actually working with a lot of estate planning attorneys, we're working with CPAs, individuals that have businesses similar to yours where they're buying them for their clients, where their clients are buying them and co-branded. It's nice to see that so many companies now are recognizing that you have to provide an access point for the information as well. You can't just do the do the work itself. So, yeah, thank you for recognizing.

SPEAKER_01 20:23

Perfect. And if people want more information, they can go to your website, buriedinwork.com. It's buriedinwork.com, right?

SPEAKER_00 20:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

Go take the quiz, check out the kit. Um, it's well worth the price. It seems a little overwhelming in the beginning, but you have to remember that you're keeping all of your documents together. That's gonna make life so much easier for other for your kids, your family members. Um, and I heard that you have a little less expensive version now, too. So go check it out. And thank you for talking with me today.

SPEAKER_00 20:53

Stephanie appreciate it. Have a great day.

SPEAKER_01 20:55

I hope you found the conversation today helpful, and I look forward to our next episode. Thanks for listening to another edition of the Aging, Healthcare and Everything in Between podcast. Please share this podcast so that others can benefit from the content. Please also leave reviews as feedback is important to me. And if you have any suggestions for a future episode, email them to s.pogue at St. Louis Insurance Group dot com. Thanks again for listening, and I look forward to bringing you more valuable content soon.